Circle v Snake Search?

[SeaQueen]

Do you guys have a preference?

Do you use different search patterns for different situations?

What is the best way to use them?

I've noticed that the AI seems to prefer snake search over circle search, with the range to target under-estimated. I wonder if they do this on purpose or not. I actually makes evasion easier, though. People complain about the computer's TMA being too good, but this leads me to doubt it.

For snapshots I always use snake search (DUH!) :-)

[Dr.Sid]

1.03 auto TMA seems to make more mistakes in range that it did before. Circle can give better results then. In sub I mostly use snake + wires.
With cirlce without wires, now well torpedoes detection range. You don't want to evade your own torpedoes.

[OneShot]

Depends on the situation. When I fly the Orion I usually have a torp ready to drop in Circle mode right from the start, in case somebody shoots at me and I actually am fast enough to drop the torp as a going away farewell. Aside from that I try to aim mostly for getting to know my quarry and then drop a Snake in front or from behind, tho sometimes I switch to using a circle when I'm pretty sure on location but not so sure on course.

As a Helo I have a Circle ready to drop again as a last ditch and to drop when I get a MAD. If I have a bit more time I try to set up a good launch and use Snake ...

Bottom line : it hugely depends on the situation! Do I prefer one? Nope, but there are situations calling for the one or the other ...

[sonar732]

I agree...if you are in an air platform and coming from behind the contact, use a snake pattern and shove the torp up his behind. :up:
If you're not sure of the exact position, use a circle. Same applies to subs if the contact is far away.

[Dr.Sid]

Actually it is much better to drop torpedoes in front of the target .. they can't evade that easily and CM wont help much.

[SeaQueen]

Actually it is much better to drop torpedoes in front of the target .. they can't evade that easily and CM wont help much.

Ooo... that's another good question, how do you guys take into account evasion?

[OneShot]

Dropping them in front is certainly preferable to giving chase ... however sometimes you can't because you don't have the time, or whatever so you have to go for the less favourable solution.

The best way to make evasive action useless is to practically drop right on top of him, the torp enters the water, starts pinging and a second later you hear the loud and satisfying BOOM when the torp hits the sub. Good but sometimes hard to do alternative is drop the torp in front, but you need very good location and course information as well as some luck for that to work out right. Good skippers can and will escape those torps as well, if you do it wrong or (and thats a big danger) simply overshoot the target and drop the torp behind him, in which case you just wasted a perfectly good torp for ... nothin, maybe even endangered another (civilian) ship.

[SeaQueen]

Dropping them in front is certainly preferable to giving chase ... however sometimes you can't because you don't have the time, or whatever so you have to go for the less favourable solution.


This surprises me because it seems like submarines traveling at a reasonable evasion speed can change course fairly quickly. Combine that the area of uncertainty and it seems unlikely that the single shot Pk of your torpedo would be effected.


The best way to make evasive action useless is to practically drop right on top of him, the torp enters the water, starts pinging and a second later you hear the loud and satisfying BOOM when the torp hits the sub.


This makes more sense to me, because a smart sub captain is going to change course as soon as he hears the torpedo in the water, so even if you dropped where you thought was in front, by the time it acquires its target, it may be in a side-on or tail chase.

I think the most important thing is to drop the torpedo as close to the submarine as possible.

[Kapitan]

Snake search for me in the circle it well just circles around and if the target is out side the cone then it doesnt go find, thats what ive found.

[SeaQueen]

I'm surprised that sub people haven't responded so far. There's a lot more nuance to the TMA there than there is in airborne platforms.

Something I've noticed about the AI, is that it seems to heavily favor snake searches. I've never seen an AI sub shoot a circle search torpedo. It's like it only ever shoots down a line of bearing, and it usually activates too early. After I realized what it was doing, AI torpedos were easy to evade because they were firing while the area of uncertainty surrounding me was too big. It seems to rely on the idea that if it just shoots enough torpedos at me, eventually one is bound to hit.

[Kapitan]

Ahem the akula is a sub isnt it?

I DRIVE IT :D

[OneShot]

If you drop Head-On then the sub is initially between the torp and the CM, so the sub captain has to start evasive maneuvers and actually turn his boat around or at least as far as possible before he can even attempt to successfully use a CM, which in turn gives the torp a lot more time to close in and kill without the sub skipper being able to do anything against it except maneuvering. If you drop behind him, he can launch a CM and start maneuvering with a good chance of evasion unless the torp was right on the money.

Thats why a Head-On shot is favourable ... but as I said earlier, to make it work you need good timing and pretty good situational awarness ... aka know where your prey is and will be when you drop.

[Sonoboy]

I use snake search when I'm in my sub, and circle search when I'm in my helimacopter.

When I find my target in the MH-60R, If I was doing a MAD run and detected it, I would immediately drop a circle search torpedo. If I have a positive classification on an enemy sub, I will close to just outside its SAM range and drop a circle search torpedo that will enable close to his position.

[GunnersMate]

I set Circle w/ 0 RTE when in P-3 and just drop it on top of the sucker. :smug: I waffle between circle and snake in helo depending on target location neutral shipping etc. In subs & FFG i set snake about 95% of the time

[SeaQueen]

Ahem the akula is a sub isnt it?

I DRIVE IT :D

Fair enough, I stand corrected.

[SKeeM]

I only play in subs and i never use circle search. Thats what the wires are for. I try to always have a UUV in the water befor i launch in case i have to run so i can still collect target data. And make course changes as needed. Also i try to launch from the other side of the layer of the target and try to activate 1 - 2000 yards from the target. Also i dont belive any angle of attack from an air platform gives a greater chance for a kill. The most important factor has to be distance. The closer the drop the better the chances. Then the odds of chance come into play. If the torp turns away from the sub and the sub turns away from the torp the odds for a hit just went againts the air platform.

[Wim Libaers]

The best way to make evasive action useless is to practically drop right on top of him, the torp enters the water, starts pinging and a second later you hear the loud and satisfying BOOM when the torp hits the sub.

Or you can get what I once saw (demo mission): detect the Victor on sonar, get a position with MAD, and drop a torpedo. And it circles. And circles. No hit. Turn on Show Truth, to see what's going on. The sub was in the middle of the circle search pattern. The torpedo hit it after the sub moved out of the search pattern.

[SeaQueen]

Or you can get what I once saw (demo mission): detect the Victor on sonar, get a position with MAD, and drop a torpedo. And it circles. And circles. No hit. Turn on Show Truth, to see what's going on. The sub was in the middle of the circle search pattern. The torpedo hit it after the sub moved out of the search pattern.

That would seem to indicate that the circle search is too large of a circle.