man overboard !

[Palindromeria]

Just bought DW (in-store) and upgraded to the 1.03 patch.

a) i am blown away by the scope of the game. i get the feeling the learning curve on this is pretty steep even for those already familiar with modern naval sims

b) i have only played ww2 naval sims and am a complete noob to the modern technology gizmos. the weps the sonar the radar ship specs what each does to begin with how to use it range and wep parameters etc is NEW to me .. then theres the tactics that go with them that i am also ignorant of ...

c) despite 9 tutorial videos , a 500 + page manual, and what clearly is a concerted effort to provide support and assistance (yes i see all the various start here threads and the plethora of links) i find myself floundering about completely.
I'm struggling to just locate id and sink the victor in the helo demo mission. :oops: ands thats with all autocrew on .... heck even with show truth on i managed to miss him with both mk50's ... :D :lol:

for starters i clearly need of ream of paper and a new ink cartridge :o
(Thanks ! without that INCREDIBLE manual id have no chance of doing anything besides looking at usni interface )

so without asking tons of questions, i would just like to know if someone has specifically written more in the way of "training missions", or can recommend some truly EASY missions so that i might be able to slowly work up my understanding of all the various systems controls interfaces.
I would really appreciate any links directly to these types of missions.

I look forward to having a clue.(it may be a a few months)
Despite the current frustration at my own lack of ability and knowledge,
i fully expect to get many many many hours of enjoyment out of DW.

ANY CHANCE OF A WW2 VERSION ?? :sunny: :|\

[OneShot]

I don't know if you haven't seen this yet but there are Tutorials to both Demo missions which are playable in the Full Game as well. Find the one for the Helo mission here : http://www.sonalystscombatsims.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=325

And I suggest you take a peek at the CADC and SubGurus. There are is a lot of help and some good starter missions available. To get going with subs I suggest "We Dive at Dawn" by Bill Nichols.

Cheers
OS

[Palindromeria]

THANK YOU :up:
i will be revisiting that more than just a few times
its exactly what i needed

noticed a few training missions on the subguru site..

picking the correct link is a bit overwhelming right now ! :88)

am betting this will eventually be the best $40 i ever spent on pc game :rock:

[Nexus7]

Ah well, with the helo you're not alone :nope:

I don't think you can be a good submariner and at the same time a good pilot, would be a conflict of interests :rotfl:

[moose1am]

I am in the same boat as you mate. It's a slow learning curve but with patience and persistance we will eventually figure this game out.

I wish that there were a good sysop system to help mentor new people into this game.

My online gaming experience was with another game and it's training is EXCELLENT. Community helpers are the key to any good online communtity. We have some very good web sites for DW and that is where I have learned a lot about this game.

But it's hard to locate the inforamtion in a timely manner. I found that I just have to wade though a lot of information to find what I really wanted to know. I think it's because of the complexity of this game DW.

So take your time and check out the mission editor and make a few training missions to practice with.

[Wim Libaers]

For the MH60 demo mission, well, you have a problem with the amount and type of torpedoes. You have only three (If you replace the Penguin with another torpedo, Mk50 recommended), and they're short-ranged. Usually one is enough if you use it well, but no guarantees if he's using countermeasures.

My recommendation: at the start of the mission, select a torpedo on the weapons screen, enable range zero, set to circle instead of snake. Assign it (without any target selected). Then, locate the sub with dipping sonar and/or bouys. If you have a good estimate of his location, fly over it with the MAD sensor. Once you hear someone announce the MAD contact, drop your torpedo. This way, the short range of your weapons doesn't matter, and he doesn't get much reaction time. The only risk is a very close neutral ship that might be picked up before the sub. There are times when using the snake option with a pre-enable run will be useful (such as when you're attacking something with short-range surface to air weapons that prevent overflying), but usually dropping a circling torpedo very close is good.

[Smaragdadler]

You could check my Landlubber-Guide. Contains lots of tips you may be interested in. :yep:

For starter-mission (subs) I also recommend 'We dive at dawn'.

But for easy training you could also use the mission generator and/or the editor.

[Fandango]

But for easy training you could also use the mission generator and/or the editor.

IMO, the mission editor is the best training tool. Just put some friendly/neutral units out there and practice with sonar, torpedoes or whatever...and that without the "pressure" of expecting an attack. Moreover, you will learn how to use the mission editor which is an "added value"... :up:

[Palindromeria]

Thank you all for the suggestions.

My inital thought was "just make a few missions" but i am overwhelmed by the game. i figured expecting to figure out how to program a mission as well might be biting off more than i can chew. but is not to complex ?

The helo seems to be the most basic of the platforms
as for the victor mission i cant get shot at ( YAY ! )
so its is a good place to play with / learn the sonar stuff.

thanks for tip regarding quick sinking of subs with helo.

a coupla times i located him surrounded him with buoys got CLOSE in behind with dipper then sent 1 ping to confirm pos (under a mile) and send the torp right in to his wake :)
however , most times i flail about pathetically in this attempt, get way to many sonar lines and just get confused / frustrated.

this is a long way from aod ss2 sh1 sh2 and dc !!

1 odd problem in the kilo and i think other subs as well ..
when i use the handle to rotate the peri - it goes the OPPOSITE direction (??!!)
thank goodness for the little compass thingy so i can mouse about :lol:

[Smaragdadler]

[...]
1 odd problem in the kilo and i think other subs as well ..
when i use the handle to rotate the peri - it goes the OPPOSITE direction (??!!)
thank goodness for the little compass thingy so i can mouse about :lol:

Just imagine yourself standing before the periscope having your hands on the handles. If you click with the mouse on the handle - think about it as if you would always *push* the handle - now it should make sense:
on the left -> clockwise rotation of periscope
on the right -> counter-clock rotation of periscope

I think DW is is correct in this point.

http://www.webenet.net/~ftoon/memory/periscope.jpg

[MaHuJa]

I wish that there were a good sysop system to help mentor new people into this game.

Ever see me around, (I'm primarily on gamespy) then you can ask me for a tutoring game or two, or three, or...

[GunnersMate]

[...]
1 odd problem in the kilo and i think other subs as well ..
when i use the handle to rotate the peri - it goes the OPPOSITE direction (??!!)
thank goodness for the little compass thingy so i can mouse about :lol:

Just imagine yourself standing before the periscope having your hands on the handles. If you click with the mouse on the handle - think about it as if you would always *push* the handle - now it should make sense:
on the left -> clockwise rotation of periscope
on the right -> counter-clock rotation of periscope

I think DW is is correct in this point.
Why*push* and not *pull*?

[OneShot]

You are moving "with" the scope and the most natural way to do this is by walking forward ... hence the -push-. If you would walk backward around the scope to turn it you would pull, but all the times I have seen a movie or video where a periscope was involved the people were moving "forward" and turning it that way.

[Jamie]

Teaching DW newbies how to climb the food chain.

Just another round of thanks from everyone here at S.C.S. for everyone who is going to great lengths to help those new to our games. (you know who you are!) :yep:

We really appreciate it! Thank you, guys! :up:

[Palindromeria]

;) "to push or to pull" - that is the question , i see ... :rotfl:
:-j (way too much humor potential here) :-j

as long as its not a bug unique to my install, I am :sunny:

gonna go browse the kilo demo training tutorial

thanks again

[GunnersMate]

Would it be all THAT dif :cry: ficult to be able to switch it?

[Palindromeria]

Got to admit it seems like a bug until one realizes this push / pull concept is being used at a few other stations as well.

The subs shoulder mounted sam launcher for instance up is down and down is up for the same reason. i am guessing i will come across it in a few other places.

the concept in and of itself is rather normal, it would kinda help me personally to simply know which stations its being applied to beforehand
as opposed to suddenly thinking i am either having a dyslexic episode or theres something wrong with my install.

while its probably all in the manual somewhere , :)
now that ive stumbled thru the kilo and helo demo , i freely admit that ive jumped around to a few subs before doing any reading whatsoever so these things took me by surprise.

As this this is the 1st subsim that i have personally played in which the peri has push pull concept applied to port starboard rotation only (for all i know this is how sonalysts has been doing it for years ) hopefully one can understand why i thought it might be a bug

get the feeling you guys been down this path before - 'nuff said

thanks again for the clarification

[OneShot]

You are welcome ...

on a more general note (that means not aimed at you) ... it would be a refreshing change if people new to the game or to the genre as a whole would actually take the time and do a bit research before barreling in with guns blazing and screaming "bug". That kinda gets old fast. And even tho some things might feel a bit different at first, how bout adapting to something like a game before trying to adapt the game to oneself?

Again, please don't take that personally, it was not aimed at you. Just a general observation ...

[Palindromeria]

any chance theres a specific list of stations where this concept is applied ?


feeling like plankton in the DW food chain :lol:

[GunnersMate]

any chance theres a specific list of stations where this concept is applied ?
FFG - BMG station
Subs - SAM station

BTW - I have served on FFG and I know for certain you can see past the bow from the bridge wings - this needs to be fixed. and before anyone says anything about using the "Big Eyes" the can see past the bow as well - up to 30` if you're willing to contort a little bit.

[Dr.Sid]

Not that configurable invertion of mouse axis and keybord controls for views (scope especially) wouldn't be handy nor difficult to implement.
On SH3 you can see that UBI is game company. On DW you can see SCS is not. Both has cons and pros.

[Palindromeria]

any chance theres a specific list of stations where this concept is applied ?
FFG - BMG station
Subs - SAM station

thanks !
when i actually know what the bmg station is hopefully i will remember ;)

[TLAM Strike]

any chance theres a specific list of stations where this concept is applied ?
FFG - BMG station
Subs - SAM station

thanks !
when i actually know what the bmg station is hopefully i will remember ;)

Its the F12 station, combonation lookout/.50 cal machine guns. ;)

[Palindromeria]

On SH3 you can see that UBI is game company. On DW you can see SCS is not. Both has cons and pros.

dont have the correct chipset for sh3 ,
sh2 was pretty much just "blow stuff up!"
(you can get a solution based on what is supposedly only passive data from the map s sonar cones)

dc had more alot more going for it in that DC'ing a deep human sub in multi is a lovely combination of art , science , and intuition. (AND you could just "blow stuff up!" if you wanted to in single.)

dw clearly is about data analysis , target tracking and classifying , and the development of a successful targeting solution from that data.
its kinda like DC in a uboat hunt multi except about 1000 times more difficult , intense etc. hopefully the reward will be as well ..

[Palindromeria]

You are welcome ...

on a more general note (that means not aimed at you) ... it would be a refreshing change if people new to the game or to the genre as a whole would actually take the time and do a bit research before barreling in with guns blazing and screaming "bug". That kinda gets old fast. And even tho some things might feel a bit different at first, how bout adapting to something like a game before trying to adapt the game to oneself?

Again, please don't take that personally, it was not aimed at you. Just a general observation ...

on a more general note (that means not aimed at you) it would be a refreshing change to bulletin boards in general if people who are highly knowledgeable and respected within the community would take the time to do a bit of research themselves before barreling in with guns blazing and a longwinded rationalization screaming "your new, your dumb ,it aint a bug, shaddup" . It seems to happen within every BB service especially gaming ones and got old years ago. So how bout adapting to the simple possibility that a "veteran" can be wrong and that "revelations" can come from the mouths of babes.

So lets simplify,

place the mouse over the left handle of the periscope ,
note that the arrow points LEFT

note that the tool tip pop-up says PAN LEFT

note that in the manual the only reference is found under detecting contacts in the periscope "rotate the periscope to ook for contacts click the grey arrows on the left and right handle or click and drag in the periscope view to rotate the periscope 360 degrees." (section 10 pg 51)

i see no mention of the push pull concept and/described previously in the thread or any other mention of why when one presses a button thats says PAN LEFT it goes the wrong way....

trying to remember my left from right is not something that should require a 570 manual or derision.

if sonalysts simply cant fix it .. well thats one thing.
while i can respect that life aint perfect and maybe nothing can be done,
i dont respect fabricated rationalizations.

Again, please don't take that personally, it was not aimed at you. Just the general way i perceive things.

[OneShot]

Yep, the arrow points left and the tooltip says ... "Pan Left", but when you click on it the image moves to the right. So the words Pan Left don't fit with the actual movement .... so what?

Aside from that the Arrow supports both the opinion of turning left as well as pushing the left handle forward, thus turning the scope to the right ... the only bad apple therein is the tool tip. I guess this question could only be answered by someone from SCS who really knows what they actually intended. So there might be either a bug in the movement or in the association of the tool tip text to the right button. Fortunatly the developer included the option to click directly on the image in the scope and move that with the mouse ...

So how bout adapting to the simple possibility that a "veteran" can be wrong and that "revelations" can come from the mouths of babes. Everybody can be wrong/right, sometimes both at the same time ...

If this insignificant "bug" is all there is left to discuss about then I would suggest lets start the celebrations ...

[Palindromeria]

;)

thanks again for your assistance.

maybe one day i will evolve from plankton to tubeworm.

[Palindromeria]

K - it seems that all of the tooltips for the kilos peri
LEFT handles say "pan LEFT" ,

BUT on Akula , Seawolf , 688
The tooltip for the LEFT handle says Pan RIGHT.

so at least the tooltip and the actual direction actually match on these 3 subs even if i find it completely counter intuitive ,and ,well, pointless.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"contact at bearing 330"

pal reaches for the ARROW keys to move peri ( DANG ) :down:

"SIR ? contact still at bearing 330"

Pal reaches for the WRONG peri handle (double dang ) :damn:

"sir you gonna bother to look at the contact on bearing 330 before he kills us ?"

Pal belatedly remembers that 330 is not simply 30 degrees left of relative 0 :nope: everything is a TRUE bearing in DW. gotta remember that !
DIBBITY DANG what course am i on again ?? :hmm:

Pal finally moves the peri with his mouse but in haste is now looking straight up... :stare:

"weve been hit ... we are sinking" ... :dead: :rotfl:

Pal heads to the crapper. :arrgh!:

[GunnersMate]

Doh! :rotfl:
"Abandon Ship! All Hands .... Hey QUIT RUNNING" :roll: :88) :doh: