Real Battery Life Fix - AKA Advanced NASA Battery Fix [Archive]

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VonHelsching

03-05-06, 04:04 AM

Real Battery Life Fix by VonHelsching

AKA The Advanced NASA Battery Fix

*UPDATE* - Version for the Grey Wolves Supermod :rock:

*UPDATE* - Also Rub 1.45 compatibe version

*FINAL UPDATE* Underwater ranges corrected. Now all RL range references are in nautical miles.

-Thanks to:Captain America, Myxale, Stiebler, Gizzmoe and of course Redwine for their help -

From the begining, I had a gut feeling that something wasn't right with SH3 batteries. I checked the .sim files, but everything, all related data there, was as per www.uboat.net. (eg.underwater range for the VIIB: 90 miles @ 4 knots); Well, apart from the bugged battery of the XXI and the flawed surface range of IXD/2...but these are another story.

Also, the thread about the AOTD Coastal Tanker by AG124 (BTW, nice work) reminded me of Aces of the Deep...That was wrong with the batteries...I remembered that batteries in AOTD were an ISSUE, not something that you forget their existance, like in SH3. In AOTD sometimes, your batteries were depleted, BEFORE you ran out of O2 or got poisoned by CO2.

So, I made battery checks. All day and night during 4/3/06.

The testing grounds (seas) were west of Randall Banks, using the Happy Times single mission, O2 unchecked, using regulars crew. Tried with all subs except the VIIC/42, since it does not have a seperate .sim file. And found out what was wrong...

Remember the NASA Mars Climate Orbiter, which crashed on Mars due to a "navigational" error? Well, that proved to be one of the 10 most embarrasing software bugs ever, as I read. It was later proved that this bug was due to the fact that two subsystems of the NASA Orbiter were exchanging data of different metrics systems (metric / English)...

Well the same thing happened in SH3. Until today. And you were all thinking of playing with 100% realism...Well, you have not! Yet.

I have the privelege of presenting you the Real Battery Life Fix, from now on As Known As the "Advanced NASA Battery Fix".

Now, you will be able to boast that you are the true heir of Schepcke and Luth, since your u-boat batteries will scream "Empty" when you pass the true range limits:

- 35 miles @ 4 knots starting speed for IIA
- [43 miles @ 4 knots starting speed for IIB - RuB version only]
- 56 miles @ 4 knots starting speed for IID
- 90 miles @ 4 knots starting speed for VIIB
- 80 miles @ 4 knots starting speed for the rest of the VII series
- 63 miles @ 4 knots starting speed for all IX series and IXD/2
- 285 miles @ 6 knots starting speed for the XXI

In some cases, especially after 1943 close to the English coast, your battery might be empty before your O2, and you will have to wait until nightfall; otherwise you will be a nice target for the freshmen pilots.

In some cases, you will notice that your speed will fall dramatically, esp. after when having less than 25% of battery. And this now happens quite faster than before. Imagine that after trying to escape an ASW hunter group...

After the fix, your u-boats will have from now on around 50% less than the unhonourable underwater range you were falsely granted from the stock SH3. This differs a little bit from sub to sub due to weather conditions, crew, and my human errors in testing. The XXI is another story, since it's battery is seriously flawed. Anyway, it's battery now calls empty when you are 285 nautical miles away from your statring point.

So, now you understood what happened. The Devs put miles in the .sim files and calculated them as kms...So don't jump when you see the new underwater ranges.

This does not mean that the battery business is finished, since some of you may have already noticed in the stock game that the uboat continue to "drift" with < 1 knot for ~ 20 more hours, but I'm afraid that this might be hardcoded. Also, I'll have a look about the battery upgrades.

So, I pulled together a JSGME compatible global fix for all uboat types, and one version especially for RuB 1.45. Just uncompress to your MODS forlder and JSGME-it. Back-up first your submarine folder, just in case.

The fix includes part of my XXI flak and battery fix (XXI battery once recharged will automatically switch to full propulsion) and part of my IXD/2 range and torpedo fix (corrects surface range - 23700 m @ 12 knots), so no worries if you get any JSGME messages concerning the two above fixes. I will also update them , in their relevant subsim threads.

So the final link is:

http://rapidshare.de/files/15327786/Real_Battery_Life_AKA_Advanced_NASA_Battery_Fix_v2 .zip.html
or
http://users.forthnet.gr/ath/helsing/sh3mods/Real_Battery_Life_AKA_Advanced_NASA_Battery_Fix_v2 .zip

*UPDATE - Version for the Grey Wolves Supermod below *

http://rapidshare.de/files/16397031/Real_Battery_Life_for_GW_v1.7z.html
or
http://users.forthnet.gr/ath/helsing/sh3mods/Real_Battery_Life_for_GW_v1.7z

*UPDATE - RuB 1.45 compatible version below *

http://rapidshare.de/files/15327823/Real_Battery_Life_for_RuB_1.45_v2.7z.html
or
http://users.forthnet.gr/ath/helsing/sh3mods/Real_Battery_Life_for_RuB_1.45_v2.7z
[/color]

Link for the XXI Flak and Battery Fix v3

http://rapidshare.de/files/15327735/XXI_Flak_and_Battery_Fix_v3.zip.html

or
http://users.forthnet.gr/ath/helsing/sh3mods/XXI Flak and Battery Fix v3.zip

Link for the IXD/2 Torpedo and Range fix v4

http://rapidshare.de/files/15327883/IX_D2_Range_and_Torpedo_Fix_v4.zip.html
or
http://users.forthnet.gr/ath/helsing/sh3mods/IX_D2_Range_and_Torpedo_Fix_v4.zip

Have fun, and don't run out of batteries!!!

VonHelsching

Gizzmoe

03-05-06, 04:14 AM

:up:

Mirror:
http://home.arcor.de/gizzmoe/files/Real_Battery_Life_AKA_Advanced_NASA_Battery_Fix_v1 .zip

Link for the XXI Flak and Battery Fix v2
http://home.arcor.de/gizzmoe/files/XXI_Flak_and_Battery_Fix_v2.zip

Link for the IXD/2 Torpedo and Range fix v2
http://home.arcor.de/gizzmoe/files/IX_D2_Range_and_Torpedo_Fix_v2.zip

RUb-compatible version:
http://home.arcor.de/gizzmoe/files/Real_Battery_Life_for_RuB_1.45_v1.7z

Samwolf

03-05-06, 04:32 AM

Great catch! :up:

Is this fix compatible with Rub 145 & HT147 which also mod some of these files?

JonZ

03-05-06, 04:58 AM

IS IT COMPATIBLE WITH rUb/iUB? THERE'S .SIM IN THESE FOLDERS TOO :-?

Pkunzipper

03-05-06, 07:31 AM

:up: Great job! :up:

I really hope that this changes will be implemented on the big incoming mods!

CB..

03-05-06, 07:49 AM

great stuff.....does any-one have any info on wether or not u-boat batterys developed a "memory" affecting recharge and drain capacity?

a long while ago i used to race remote control electric buggys...and one of the main tricks of the trade was that in order to get the full life time from a charged battery it was essential to completely drain the battery before recharging it---other wise what actually happened was the batterys developed a "memory" regarding the level of drain the battery had reached when the recharge was started and would actually die at that level instead of when completely flat--ie

if you drained the batterys to 2/3 rds capacity ( ie 1/3 charge left in the cells) then did a full recharge the battery would tend to "remember" this ( not sure exactly how) and if thsi continued the battery would start registering as flat when in fact it still had 1/3 capacity left---

allways wondered if the u-boat batterys had the same trouble--if they did this would have a huge impact on battery life and recharge

doesn't really matter here as it probably doesn't apply and even if it did it's doubt full if it could be introduced into the sim....interesting tho

VonHelsching

03-05-06, 07:57 AM

:up:

Mirror:
http://home.arcor.de/gizzmoe/files/Real_Battery_Life_AKA_Advanced_NASA_Battery_Fix_v1 .zip

Link for the XXI Flak and Battery Fix v2
http://home.arcor.de/gizzmoe/files/XXI_Flak_and_Battery_Fix_v2.zip

Link for the IXD/2 Torpedo and Range fix v2
http://home.arcor.de/gizzmoe/files/IX_D2_Range_and_Torpedo_Fix_v2.zip

Many thanks Gizzmoe!

[ I think I have 10MB space from my provider...I'll look into it for the future ]

VonHelsching

03-05-06, 08:18 AM

Great catch! :up:

Is this fix compatible with Rub 145 & HT147 which also mod some of these files?

It is compatible with HT 1.47. These three subs that are modified are probably used for the AI Uboats. Since I have HT 1.47, my underwater range settings were made on these files; So, it's OK :up:

I have RuB 1.43 (never installed it, though). Are there any differences in the .sim files between 1.43 and 1.45; I'dont want to download 50 megs just to check 3 4k files. I'll make a check for 1.43 first.

Oh! :sunny: Idea: Can someone compress RuB's (1.45) submarine folder and post it to rapidshare? I can check it at once.

JonZ, IuB Master, the same stands for IuB. Thanks!

VonHelsching

03-05-06, 08:26 AM

great stuff.....does any-one have any info on wether or not u-boat batterys developed a "memory" affecting recharge and drain capacity?

It was probably pretty bad in 1940. I woudn't think that the uboat batteries lasted more than a year or so (less than 500 recharges definitly). But no other info than this: http://www.uboat.net/articles/index.html?article=54

In consumer devices the memory problem was resolved partially with the NiHMg batteries. I saw them first time about 10 years ago and they were quite expensive. I think they started using them for cell phones before 5 years or so.

Samwolf

03-05-06, 10:17 AM

Thanks. :P

Samwolf

03-05-06, 10:32 AM

Nedlam

03-05-06, 10:36 AM

VonHelsching

03-05-06, 10:47 AM

http://rapidshare.de/files/14758275/Rub_1_45_Sub_Folder.zip.html

Excellent! Back to work! :up:

VonHelsching

03-05-06, 11:15 AM

Just curious. Did you use TT SH3 Inspector to adjust the settings on Uboats for your mod? I use it frequently and the values I have for the type VII are already 80 mi @ 4 kts. So I'm wondering if the mi is mislabelled in the Inspector prgm.

I used TTs mini tweaker. Indeed in the unmodded SH3 it says 80...But the Devs erroneously multiplied (not visible - probably hardcoded) this by 1,609 (miles / kilometers), so you got 60% more underwater range than you should. This stands for the Type II and Type IXs. Eg. now in the IIA range, you will see 23. Don't get confused, though. With that figure, your Typ IIA will now run 35 miles @ 4 knots or, if you prefer 56 kilometers @ 4 knots - BTW, the ruler is in kilometers.

And it got worse: The VII series underwater range seemed to be multiplied by a factor of 1,4something. Now, instead of 80, you will see 57. With this figure, you will get ~80-90 miles actual range before you get the "Battery Empty" message". Before that you got more than 40% more range.

don1reed

03-05-06, 11:38 AM

@CB:

I believe the batteries used aboard UBoats were the Lead-Acid (wet cell) types, not the NiCd (nickel cadmium) or NiMD (nickel metal hydride) modern rechargables, and therefore did not have "memories".

They did require a lot more tedious maintenance, however. Wet-cells could become dangerous when drained too low. Heck, they were always dangerous with all the H2SO4 lying about; not mention, hydrogen and chlorine gases. Made for some wickedly ratty dungeries...lol

Nedlam

03-05-06, 01:42 PM

I used TTs mini tweaker. Indeed in the unmodded SH3 it says 80...But the Devs erroneously multiplied (not visible - probably hardcoded) this by 1,609 (miles / kilometers)...

Great, thanks for clearing that up for me. I'll probably just go in an tweak them myself.

BTW, did you test to see if the same bug exsists with the diesel engines? My guess is it does. I've been running with the diesels getting 8500 mi @ 10 kts. I think that's 13,676.5 km. It's been awhile but I think the actual value before I changed it was somewhere around 12,000 miles. I did it because in the readme somewhere RuB states that it increases the range of Uboats to reflect milkcows. I didn't like this option so I made the value lower. I guess I was squashing a bug and didn't even know it. :)

CCIP

03-05-06, 01:43 PM

Awesome sauce!

Grabbing it now, even if I can't play until later. I personally always thought battery performance slightly suspect :up:

VonHelsching

03-05-06, 02:02 PM

As promised I looked into the RuB 1.45 .sim files. It is not compatible with the Advanced NASA Battery Fix.

But, I made it compatible :sunny:

Here's a rapidshare link:

*UPDATED* Look 1st post!

Have fun (with limited O2)

VonHelsching

BTW, why the .sim file of the IIA in RuB has the specs of a IIB? :o

Gizzmoe

03-05-06, 02:09 PM

Mirror:

RUb version
http://home.arcor.de/gizzmoe/files/Real_Battery_Life_for_RuB_1.45_v1.7z

CCIP

03-05-06, 02:17 PM

BTW, why the .sim file of the IIA in RuB has the specs of a IIB? :o

Because no IIA boats had ever been used in combat roles, and IIB was the most widespread variant. It was also virtually identical to the IIA in looks, so it's no big discrepancy. Just couldn't rename it :hmm:

JonZ

03-05-06, 02:51 PM

As promised I looked into the RuB 1.45 .sim files. It is not compatible with the Advanced NASA Battery Fix.

But, I made it compatible :sunny:

Here's a rapidshare link:

http://rapidshare.de/files/14775635/Real_Battery_Life_for_RuB_1.45_v1.7z.html

Have fun (with limited O2)

VonHelsching

BTW, why the .sim file of the IIA in RuB has the specs of a IIB? :o

Thanks a bunch :sunny:

:integrating for the upcoming IuB: :cool:

If I understood carefully, that's include your other XXI fixes right?

CB..

03-05-06, 03:08 PM

:up: ok Von and Don- that's cleared that question up--must admit i kept wondering about it---

HEMISENT

03-05-06, 03:14 PM

:up: :up: :up: :up:

VonHelsching

03-05-06, 03:25 PM

Thanks a bunch :sunny:

:integrating for the upcoming IuB: :cool:

If I understood carefully, that's include your other XXI fixes right?

No. It includes just the XXI battery. For the rest XXI tweaks (flak usage + new snorkel depth) you will need to apply the XXI flak and battery fix v2 (version two) on top of the Advanced NASA fix. Or follow the manual editing guide on the thread.

When is the release date for the new IuB?

JonZ

03-05-06, 04:17 PM

[quote=JonZ]

When is the release date for the new IuB?

I don't know, there's cool mods going out every days I can't keep it up! :damn:

hehe not really, but I am awaiting some feedbacks from Rubini to mix certain things among his upcoming mods and IuB. I have redone some of the dials graphics, sort of mixes of stock and modders and my touch. Once Rubini give's me his part of works, I probably release sooner after.

Zero Niner

03-06-06, 04:28 AM

Does this mean that the batteries ran out later than they were supposed to in game?

Stiebler

03-06-06, 07:01 AM

The NYGM team considered this mod to be so important that I started work at once on a short program that will add it to NYGM (the safest and fastest way).

Alas, I was too late for the NYGM Tonnage War Mod (just released), but it will appear in the soon-coming update version with Harbour Traffic.

The program can be used on *any* u-boat.sim files. It stamps itself across the .sim file, without altering anything else, so is compatible with all u-boat.sim from all sources. There's a full read-me file, which fully credits von Helsching.

Download it here:
http://rapidshare.de/files/14824947/SH3Battery.zip.html

Since many people have problems downloading from rapidshare, perhaps someone else would like to host this mod too. I can't contact Terrapin's realsimulation.com.

Congratulations, von Helsching - very well spotted error in SH3.

Stiebler.

Redwine

03-06-06, 07:58 AM

Hi VonHelsching..... :up:

Many thanks for your effort in this fact.

Please, i have some doubts....

Do you say the value we input into the TT's Minitweaker is inserted in miles, but the game take them as kilometers ?

Plus, when we read the data about range submerged in miles, i always asume they are nautical miles, they are the miles used for navigation.

The conversion factor used by you (0.6213) is for terrestrial miles instead nautical miles (0.5399).

We have "milesSubmerged" value into the Tweak file...... in type VIIC we have 80 ...... are they 80 terrestrial or nautical miles ?

do it means the values adjusted into the TT's minitweaker are in "terrestrial" miles ?

I am confused with this .......

Thanks in advance.

raymond6751

03-06-06, 11:12 AM

Thanks for all the work, guys.

It is nice to know the 'in port' tech staff are working hard to keep the sailor guys safe for another patrol.

I hope the Ubi staff appreciate and take note of all these mods and fixes, AND who made them.

Der Teddy Bar

03-06-06, 01:49 PM

Stieblers update has now also been added to the NYGM download page at File Front.

VonHelsching

03-06-06, 03:22 PM

Does this mean that the batteries ran out later than they were supposed to in game?

Yes. Up to ~60%...

VonHelsching

03-06-06, 03:34 PM

Hi VonHelsching..... :up:

Many thanks for your effort in this fact.

Please, i have some doubts....

My friend Redwine. You are welcome :sunny:

I was waiting for this question (from you I mean). But I didn't know when.

This is going to be a long and enjoyable discussion. But we have to wait until tommorow...(so many mods, so little time).

I am sure that you know that there are 5 definitions of "mile" - mile (statute), mile(intnl.), mile (nautical), nautical mile (UK), nautical mile (intnl.)

Keep up the good questions.

And one question from me, to keep you busy until tommorow:
Which kind of miles does uboat.net refers to underwater speeds? :cool:

VonHelsching

03-06-06, 03:50 PM

The NYGM team considered this mod to be so important that I started work at once on a short program that will add it to NYGM (the safest and fastest way).

Congratulations, von Helsching - very well spotted error in SH3.

Stiebler.

Thanks, Stiebler. The mod (NASA fix) might need a little more fine tuning. I'll re-check some things next weekend and make a new version if required. Probably I am around +/- 5% of the final ranges.

Does the .exe file you posted include the whole .sim file of the XXI or just a range fix? I am asking, because it contained the XXI battery fix (concept by Ducimus), which allows the battery to be charged to 100% and switch automatically to "cruise" mode from "battery charging" mode.

Which are the differences between the RuB and NYGM .sim files?

Stiebler

03-06-06, 04:36 PM

Von Helsching asked:
Does the .exe file you posted include the whole .sim file of the XXI or just a range fix? I am asking, because it contained the XXI battery fix (concept by Ducimus), which allows the battery to be charged to 100% and switch automatically to "cruise" mode from "battery charging" mode.

Which are the differences between the RuB and NYGM .sim files?
The .exe file I posted is just a range fix. Nothing else.

It has become clear that there are no differences between the RUb and NYGM .sim files. However, I could not be sure of that at the time of posting.

Teddy Bar said:
Stiebler's update has now also been added to the NYGM download page at File Front.
Many thanks, my friend.

Stiebler.

Redwine

03-06-06, 04:48 PM

And one question from me, to keep you busy until tommorow:

Which kind of miles does uboat.net refers to underwater speeds? :cool:

Hi VonHelsching, thanks for response.

That is the first question we need to do, in Unterseeboowaffe site, they put into the sub performance...they are statute miles.

http://www.dataphone.se/~ms/ubootw/welcom.htm

The matter is i cant understand this ..... when we adjust 80 miles, asuming they are correct into submerged range......

What the program do ?

What is the error you discovered ?

The program take those 80 directly as km ?

The program take those 80 as nm instead sm and convert an exesive value into km ?

Thanks a lot for help and effort :up:

VonHelsching

03-07-06, 01:00 AM

It has become clear that there are no differences between the RUb and NYGM .sim files. However, I could not be sure of that at the time of posting.

I checked it myself, just in case someone using the NYGM Tonnage War would prefer to use a JSGME compatible mod, rather than an .exe (which makes some people nervous, including myself - excl. SH3Gen, SH3Cdr and SH3 weather, for which there is no alternative).

There are differences between the .sim files of RuB and NYGM Tonnage War. The "torpedo" section is different for all uboats.

If someone using the new NYGM Modpack would prefer a special version of the NASA fix, I would be more than happy to produce it tonight - it's about 15 minutes of work -

VonHelsching

03-07-06, 01:44 AM

That is the first question we need to do, in Unterseeboowaffe site, they put into the sub performance...they are statute miles.

http://www.dataphone.se/~ms/ubootw/welcom.htm

The matter is i cant understand this ..... when we adjust 80 miles, asuming they are correct into submerged range......

What the program do ?

What is the error you discovered ?

The program take those 80 directly as km ?

The program take those 80 as nm instead sm and convert an exesive value into km ?

Thanks a lot for help and effort :up:

My friend, Redwine,

What fine photos and wonderful information are in the site you posted!

And, yes I used statute miles myself. For a strange reason, both references are in statute, rather than nautical miles. It this proves to be correct (eg. from a reference from the Kaleun's manual), I have no clue why the Germans seemed to use statute miles. Maybe because the English were using nautical miles (UK) :-j

1) Redwine: What the program do ?

The Real Battery Life / Advanced NASA Battery Fix a) corrects the underwater ranges in all uboat .sim files. b) Fixes the XXI battery (for those who havn't done it already) c) Fixes the surface range of the IXD/2 (for those who havn't done it already)

The Real Battery Life for RuB does a) and b) above.
The surface range if the IXD/2 in RuB 1.45 is already corrected to 31500 @ 10 knots. (as per the Unterseeboowaffe site) vs. the 23700 @ 12 knots of the www.uboat.net.

2) Redwine: What is the error you discovered ?

The underwater ranges in the .sim files are supposed to be statute miles, but they're not. I'll call them "ubi-pseudo-units". Then SH3 mutiplies them with 1,6 to convert them "again" to statute miles.

So the underwater range of the IID in the .sim files (in "ubi-pseudo-units") is now ~36. The game muliplies this by 1,6 and you now get ~57 (reference range is 56)

Bear in mind every test gets a different result (+/- 5%) due to weather conditions, crew ability, depth (?)

3) Redwine: The program take those 80 directly as km ?

No. The 80 (ubi-pseudo-units) are what the Devs thought it was kilometers, later converted to miles. (To be later again measured by the ruler, which is in kilometers :-j ). See 2)

4) The program take those 80 as nm instead sm and convert an exesive value into km ?

No. See 2) and 3)

I hope it is clearer now.

I would like to do some tests again with the VII series, since for them another strange conversion factor is used (the worst errors are non-systematic). I'll figure this out eventually.

Redwine, now that I'm thinking of it, also the surface ranges might also be wrong (using the same logic). But this needs a lot of testing time (plus some navigations experts); and probably a different map. :doh:

Stiebler

03-07-06, 04:07 AM

Von Helsching said:
I checked it myself, just in case someone using the NYGM Tonnage War would prefer to use a JSGME compatible mod, rather than an .exe (which makes some people nervous, including myself - excl. SH3Gen, SH3Cdr and SH3 weather, for which there is no alternative).

There are differences between the .sim files of RuB and NYGM Tonnage War. The "torpedo" section is different for all uboats.

Point 1 - nervous users. Yes, I'm one of them. However SH3Battery Mod is closely related (in coding terms) to the popular "Radar_Detection.exe", which I also wrote. No complaints yet about either program. However, I sympathise completely with your view.

Point 2 - it seems I have made an error, so it's just as well if people do use SH3Battery Mod, which can't make the same error.
Strange, though, my beta-test files for NYGM never once contained any NSSUboatxx.sim file - and NYGM is overlaid onto RUb. There must have been a late change. Perhaps you have an earlier version of RUb.

Stiebler.

Stiebler

03-07-06, 07:55 AM

Redwine

03-07-06, 09:05 AM

My friend, Redwine,

What fine photos and wonderful information are in the site you posted!

Yes...very nice site.

For a strange reason, both references are in statute, rather than nautical miles.

Yes it is extrange, because to navigate nm are the value used.
Any way there is no problem if this fact is well speciphied.

2) Redwine: What is the error you discovered ?

The underwater ranges in the .sim files are supposed to be statute miles, but they're not. I'll call them "ubi-pseudo-units". Then SH3 mutiplies them with 1,6 to convert them "again" to statute miles.

:88) I can believe ! may be diferent people putting their hands into the program.

So the underwater range of the IID in the .sim files (in "ubi-pseudo-units") is now ~36. The game muliplies this by 1,6 and you now get ~57 (reference range is 56)

I think so their original intemption was to input the values in sm and convert them into km, looking at the 1.6 factor..... but for some loss reason the program dont take them as km ...instead as miles. :hmm: may be difetrent people made partial parts of the program and the convertion method was loss into a mistake or misunderstand of any one....

Redwine, now that I'm thinking of it, also the surface ranges might also be wrong (using the same logic). But this needs a lot of testing time (plus some navigations experts); and probably a different map. :doh:

Hard to test... or imposible.
In example... when you fly, you need to adjust the real nautical miles due to the head or tail wind.... if you have head wind, you real nautical miles will increase, instead, if you have tail wind, your real nautical miles will be reduced.

The same happens at sea with sea streams....... they can enlarge you geographical nautical miles o reduce them, i dont know if it is modellated in the game, but may be havy seas have influence into speed into fuel compsumption..... may be wind speed too.

The main problem is it is imposible to perform a long range surface navigation to a complete fuel out.....without dive, surface, dive, surface...dive.... due to enemy encounters.

:hmm:

VonHelsching

03-07-06, 01:35 PM

I've checked the RUb 1.45 and NYGM Tonnage War NSS_Uboat7c.sim files, and I acknowledge that there is a difference in the torpedo sections. A new mod (from some source unknown to me, it wasn't part of the new work on NYGM) has evidently been installed over RUb by the NYGM compilers.

But this merely points up the importance of using the SH3Battery Mod to stamp over any .sim file. Most users - even me! - don't know exactly how our files have been modded by others.

Stiebler.

It would be interesting to see what these (minute) changes in the torpedo section mean and what is their consequences in the NYGM gameplay wrt RuB gameplay. They should be subtle, though.

Just one remark: I have personally checked every field of the .sim files for stock / HT and RuB versions, so I wouldn't want for the users that are reading this thread to even think that is is not safe to use my mod. Just making it absolutely crystal clear.

I really think that the discussion should evolve around but miles, nautical miles, kilometers, slow death by CO2, destroyed batteries and advanced damage models, sulphuric acid smells etc. :rock:

Any reports for fellow Kaleuns that reduced their odds using the Advanced NASA Battery Fix?

snitzel

03-09-06, 05:29 AM

Which kind of miles does uboat.net refers to underwater speeds? :cool:

That is the first question we need to do, in Unterseeboowaffe site, they put into the sub performance...they are statute miles.

http://www.dataphone.se/~ms/ubootw/welcom.htm

Unterseeboowaffe site uses sm = sea miles(= 1852 meters), at least so it says at the bottom of each boat page. And when comparing their values with uboat.net they are the same, so uboat.net uses nautical miles too. I hope this confuses you further :-j

VonHelsching

03-09-06, 07:34 AM

Wikipedia for the VIIB states: Range: surfaced 14,000 km (8700 mile) at 10 knot (19 km/h), submerged 150 km (94 mile) at 4 knot (7 km/h)

The division is 1,6, thus statute miles.

From http://www.uboatwar.net/VII.htm

VIIB: Speed: 17.2 -17.9kts/8kts (surfaced/submerged)
Range (nm/kts) 8,700/10 surfaced (combined diesel electric drive range 9,400nm@10kts); 90/4 submerged.

Clearly stated nautical miles

What is the true from both? Only a Kaleun's manual would give us definite answers

While searching for answers (i.e which to use statute or nautical),
I didn't find any conclusive answer...

In any case the difference in undewater ranges, if we use nautical mile is ~10% (less :-? , of course) from what is modded by the Advanced NASA Battery Fix. The business case of the fix was to bring up the difference of 60% (i.e between the kilometers and the mal modelled miles). Eventually, we can fine tune it further.

And BTW the term "sea mile" is not used anymore (Old UK term, which meant nautical mile). :damn:

Right now, I'm working on something else, so, expect some more suprises...

snitzel

03-10-06, 03:19 AM

Maybe the wikipedia author has used his NASA calculator to make those conversions. Or maybe he forgot that there is nautical miles too :rotfl:

Stiebler

03-10-06, 06:52 AM

Cheapskate

03-10-06, 06:55 AM

What is the true from both? Only a Kaleun's manual would give us definite answers

Don't know whether this article will add anything to the discussion

http://www.securitypipeline.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleId=181501030

If nothing else, it shows that that the "sm" terminology was used by U boat commanders in their reports to BDU....assuming of course.... that the enigma decipher was correct :D Don't know, of course, what Hartwig Looks meant by sm but I find it hard to believe he was referring to " statute miles ".

Redwine

03-10-06, 07:44 AM

Unterseeboowaffe site uses sm = sea miles(= 1852 meters), at least so it says at the bottom of each boat page. And when comparing their values with uboat.net they are the same, so uboat.net uses nautical miles too. I hope this confuses you further :-j

Hi Snitzel..... agree with VonHelsching, the therm "sea mile" is not used..... almost not yet, and from many time ago, when you read "sm" it is refering to satute miles.

In my laguge it is "millas nauticas" but some time i hear from olders crews "millas marinas" wich can be the equivalent of "sea miles" you mentioned.

As VonHelsching wrote, may be an old therm, but not used in last years, my job is to navigate from 20 years ago, and we call them "nautical miles".

So, when we read "sm' it is more common to think in statute miles, but talk about a sub, and talk about "statute miles" is an incongruence...i think so.

Due to this uncongruence....you may be right and the Unterseeboowaffe is using a wrong therm and really they are talking about nautical miles (1 minute of degree of the earth circunference at average sea level at ecuador)

But as they wrote..... sm, it is staute mile, may be they need to change it.....

VonHelsching

03-11-06, 02:52 AM

As I've pointed out elsewhere, it is exceedingly unwise to rely on information compiled in web-sites. They are mostly put together by semi-knowledgeable enthusiasts who have just uncritically collected as much information, from as many sources, as they can.

Use books, as a substitute for the original information. And make sure that the books draw on original information, and are not just a compilation of other people's books (you need to read the book, for this).

Older British compilations of U-boat ranges clearly use the term 'sea mile', as a substitute for the more modern 'nautical mile'. Since 'sea mile' is usually abbreviated to 'sm', there is clear scope for confusion with 'statute mile'. To the best of my knowledge (as a Britisher), 'statute mile' is only used for land maps, never for use at sea.

I have two central reference works, where the submerged range for the Type VIIB U-boat is stated explicitly as "90 sea-miles at 4 kts".

Stiebler.

Stiebler. I coudln't agree more about the web sites. The information is diverse.

Your sources seem to be more trustworthy than web sites. I am semi-convinced now about sea / nautical miles, unless someone can prove us otherwise with different valid references. Can you write the name of the books (authors, publishing house etc.)? I would be greatful!

But we have to reach some sort of consensus on which measuring unit we are going to use from now on.

Anyone else on this?

VonHelsching

03-11-06, 02:57 AM

Hi Snitzel..... agree with VonHelsching, the therm "sea mile" is not used..... almost not yet, and from many time ago, when you read "sm" it is refering to satute miles.

In my laguge it is "millas nauticas" but some time i hear from olders crews "millas marinas" wich can be the equivalent of "sea miles" you mentioned.

As VonHelsching wrote, may be an old therm, but not used in last years, my job is to navigate from 20 years ago, and we call them "nautical miles".

Stiebler's post conviced me thet there might be a case for nautical and not statute miles. Furthermore the vintage term sea miles might be the case, since we are talking about a vintage era (1940) :yep:

VonHelsching

03-11-06, 02:58 AM

Maybe the wikipedia author has used his NASA calculator to make those conversions. Or maybe he forgot that there is nautical miles too :rotfl:

From now on this can be reffered to as the "NASA Web Syndrome" :rotfl:

VonHelsching

03-11-06, 03:05 AM

Myxale

03-11-06, 03:31 AM

Well it could mean "See-Meilen" as in nautical miles....but im not sure if's that what was menat in the article! :dead:

Gizzmoe

03-11-06, 04:09 AM

What does the term "sm" mean in German?

Seemeile (nautical mile), plural is "Seemeilen" (nautical miles).

Stiebler

03-11-06, 08:03 AM

von Helsching wrote:
Your sources seem to be more trustworthy than web sites. I am semi-convinced now about sea / nautical miles, unless someone can prove us otherwise with different valid references. Can you write the name of the books (authors, publishing house etc.)? I would be greatful!

Both these books have been in my private collection for decades - that shows how old I am.

The one I would strongly recommend for the fullness of U-boat technical detail for ranges is:
"U-Boats Under the Swastika" by J P Mallmann Showell, Ian Allan Publishers (England) 1973.
I'm pretty certain that this book has been updated in recent years.

Mallmann Showell is a highly-regarded U-boat historian, born of a German ex-U-boat engineer, who was killed in action, and a British mother. They were living in Germany at the outbreak of the 2nd World War. The historian is still going strong and lives in Britain. I met him once. He didn't know what the emergency procedure was if a U-boat was surprised by a destroyer on the horizon while halfway through reloading an external torpedo. I still don't know either.

Another outstanding technical book (though I didn't look at it when making my reply) is Roessler's "The U-boat - The technical evolution of the submarine". This has also just been republished, after languishing for many years. Again, I have the original version which cost a fortune to buy second-hand. (Originally published in German.)

The other book in my private collection, to which I referred in the earlier reply, is long out of print, and I haven't seen it available for a very long term time. It was also from the Ian Allan stable.

Stiebler.

JScones

03-11-06, 08:29 AM

J P Mallmann Showell
That name sounds familiar...<searches through library>... Yep, he's also the author of the German Navy Handbook 1939-1945. Highly recommended.

VonHelsching

03-11-06, 09:44 AM

Thanks Myxale, Gizzmoe and Stiebler for your input.

Now some work has to be done:

- Update the NASA fix underwater ranges
- Re-calculate tests already done for surface ranges (this is more complicated that it sounds...) and make more tests.

The ranges on the final release will not differ much (approx -10%) from the initial.

Thanks again

VonHelsching

VonHelsching

03-12-06, 12:17 PM

Posted final version, based on the thread discussion.

*Corrected / Fine tuned all underwater ranges *
*Corrected underwaterversion for IIB - RuB version only*

Thanks to all that contributed to this fix.

Now that we use nautical miles as reference, all underwater ranges were updated (0-10% plus from the previous version, depending on uboat type).

FYI I did extensive tests on surface ranges, using 100 nautical miles as reference range (tweaked all uboat ranges). In the beginning I had hopes :-j that the Devs would have repeated the NASA mistake and we had to update surface ranges all over again. But they proved me wrong:

When SH3 pops out the "fuel tank empty" message, the range seems less than actual nautical miles. BUT, the uboats, continue with empty fuel tank for about 8-9 kilometers per 100 kilometers.
So, it seems that someone from the devs caught this bug quite late and pulled a real "quick and dirty" fix. But then, he didn't bother to fix this for underwater ranges...

Enjoy, and don't run out of batteries close to the English coast! :huh:

Samwolf

03-12-06, 12:41 PM

Real_Battery_Life_for_RuB_1.45_v2.7z

Is this one also HT1.47 friendly?

Never mind. I should have unzipped it before I asked. :doh:

VonHelsching

03-12-06, 02:37 PM

You shouldn't have any problem. Backup your submarine folder, just in case and ignore any JSGME messages. This fix affects only the .sim files.

The worst thing thac can happen is for an AI u-boat to have less underwater range :-j

Ducimus

03-24-06, 04:51 PM

VonHelsching

03-24-06, 06:47 PM

Wow, how did i miss this thread.

What exactly did you change in the sim files?

Ive already heavily edited my sim files and would like to incorporate these changes into them. So an itemized list of what was changed and its new value would be much appreciated.

I suppose i could always D/L it later and open the files up and see for myself, but im at work atm and can't do that right now. ;)

Well Admiral here we go:

Replace the underwater ranges under "electric propulsion" (@ 4 kn for all u-boat except the XXI, which is @ 6 kn) with the following:

IIA: 23
IIB: 28 [RuB and GW version only]
IID: 37
VIIB: 69
VIIC: 59
VIIC/41: 59
IXB: 44
IXC: 44
IXD/2: 40
XXI: 221

With these units you will now have the real underwater ranges.-see first post-
You were playing for a year or so with ~35% more underwater range (as the rest of us) :-?

Things get more interesting now when your battery drops below 25%. And this happens quite more often now...

Ducimus

03-24-06, 07:37 PM

Thanks much, i appreciate the work it took to get those numbers.

I always had a feeling someting was up. For example High speed manuvering at flank speed, bats should have only lasted an hour or so if i remember correctly. I never attempted a high speed run for that long, but im pretty sure it wouldnt drain in that time.

That and being able to keep an IXboat down for say 14 hours or so and only drain around 50% seemed just plain wrong.

Crossing Gibralter wont be such a joke now either.

Im gonna have to hurry up and shoot my fish, and bring U333 back to port for an "overhaul" it seems :-j

VonHelsching

03-25-06, 04:20 AM

Yeah! At flank speed your battery will last much less now. Thinks get interesting though under 25% when you start crawling...

Oh! I forgot. The NASA fix includes part of two other fixes;
You probably have them, but for the sake of completing a manual editing guide:

The first fix is yours: The battery fix of the XXI:

-Surface engine power 4475, rpm: 550
-Electric: engine power 2750, rpm: 560

And the other the IDX/2 range fix

- 23700 @ 12 kn

BTW, I just saw minute discrepancies in the stock surface range of the IXC, should be 13450 @10 / ~12450 @ 12 instead of 11000 @ 12. Just for the stock version; the RuB one is OK. Also some really hardcore stuff: discrepancies in displacement. The IXB is supposed to have ~100 tns less than the IXC

Stiebler

03-25-06, 04:51 AM

Ducimus said:
Ive already heavily edited my sim files and would like to incorporate these changes into them. So an itemized list of what was changed and its new value would be much appreciated.
That is precisely the circumstance for which I created SH3Battery1_1.zip, which can be downloaded now from Terrapin's site (http://Uboat.realsimulation.com).

It contains a program that stamps the correct values across any existing NSS_Uboatxx.sim file, creating a back-up and making no other changes.

Stiebler.

mikaelanderlund

03-25-06, 06:40 AM

Hi,

Are some of these mods also GW friendly?

Mikael

dize

03-25-06, 07:09 AM

Hi,

Are some of these mods also GW friendly?

Mikael

was about to ask the same. will this work with GW?

VonHelsching

03-25-06, 10:19 AM

As promised to the GW team, I working right now to make a GW compatible version. :up:

I think it will be ready in an hour or so.

Kpt. Lehmann

03-25-06, 10:45 AM

As promised to the GW team, I working right now to make a GW compatible version. :up:

I think it will be ready in an hour or so.

That is very cool of you sir! Thank you!!! :rock: :rock: :rock:

VonHelsching

03-25-06, 12:00 PM

*UPDATE*

Dedicated to the Grey Wolves team:

Real Battery Live AKA Advanced NASA Battery Fix for the Grey Wolves Supermod :rock:

See first post for the links

But now, I need really hair raising reports of young Grey Wolflings about low oxygen, high CO2, batteries running below 25% while hunted by DDs, depth charges damaging the fragile batteries etc.

Have Fun! :up:

P.S.

:hmm: It just struck me...
I have an idea about Hemisent's sabotage mod...:|\

Kpt. Lehmann

03-25-06, 12:11 PM