View Full Version : 60 knots in an Akula?
Kapitan
03-03-06, 06:06 PM
Today ive done two dives both in the akula i went to flank at 550 meters and then blew the tanks, now normaly i could get to only 42 to 44 knots now im seeing 62 knots and even as high as 66 knots
IS THERE SOMETHING WRONG ?
im sure in real life no akula could hit even 50 knots.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y262/russian-navy01/FS/020e349d.jpg
I just did the same test from 550 m at flank speed, and then emergency blow. I got a speed up to 73 knots when reaching the surface :hmm:
Kapitan
03-04-06, 07:37 AM
huff had to be diffrent lol
there must be something wrong
This sound very nice for escaping subrocs :rock:
Well, I don't think it is so unrealistic, after all you have all the speed from ahead flank plus all impulsion of the emergency blow.
Anyway much better than the more than 100knots that was hapenning before final 1.03 patch.
What I'm still concerned are the depth changes at slow speed that the sub starts to rise backwards and the torp. problems.
Kapitan
03-04-06, 08:47 AM
Yes i know and the fact thesubs come up arse first doesnt help
I used E-Blow as last evasive maneuver last week diving Akula. While I am used to a progressive emersion this one was an explosive :yep: . Instantly broke TA and reached the surface in a nothing.
This resulted in a succesfull evasion of the torp but ended in severe damage taken from surface ships :shifty:
Usually I did E-Blow for say 10 seconds (when deep enuff) combined with change of course and then disactivated it to remain submerged. Yes it ain't much realistic maybe. On the other hand when else would one use it in DW except for evading?
bobterrius
03-04-06, 11:04 AM
And what about that?
A seawolf at a speed higher than 100 knots?
It's normally?
http://terrius.free.fr/seawolf%203.jpg
Testing with the Seawolf the same procedure, 40 knots at 2000 feet with an emergency blow. I got the speed of up to 72 knots when reaching the surface. Also, I saw a strange feature of a small balancing (stern-bow) when I was at flank speed, previous to the E-blow.
Well the balancing of the boat is not (yet) modelled :lol:
Three14
03-07-06, 09:57 AM
The 40kt (or whatever) limit is from the propulsion...but setting off the e-blow is like adding propulsion. It's not as if you're going 70 knots in the horizontal, but simply because you're going up pretty fast AND straight ahead pretty fast. I don't think it's necessarily realistic -- at the least it would have to be just short of super-human to control a sub under those conditions -- but I don't see how it's wrong on the part of the model.
I don't know how subs measure speed, but if they use something analogous to a pitot tube (it's a fancy straw that "feels" the air hitting it to report the speed), then it might not be realistic for the submarine to be able to report the high speeds.
Bellman
03-07-06, 10:37 AM
If you go straight up the torp will more often than not follow - a little weave can make all the difference.
The EB is less easy to contol now, it seems, as someone said in SC you could initiate it and select a level off depth.
Now it just seems as if its s**t or bust !!
SUBMAN1
03-07-06, 10:57 AM
Have you ever seen the Los Angeles class sub poking out of the water so fast that it rises up like 3 stories before falling back down? That boat, if you figure it out, is moving much faster than 32 knots! Probably double if not more!
-S
Kapitan
03-07-06, 11:33 AM
Depending on angle which for a 688i and ive seen a video of it the angle is about 70 degree's topps i doubt its faster than 40 to 44 knots your forgetting its a long boat.
Now immaigne a typhoon doing that :o
GunnersMate
03-07-06, 04:12 PM
If the angle got too high wouldnt the MBT's spill out and fill with water creating a death dive ?
Kapitan
03-07-06, 04:38 PM
Well no the air presure inside expands as you go up, plus the intake for water is on the submarine belly.
SUBMAN1
03-07-06, 05:11 PM
Well considering that it is a roller coaster ride for the occupants, I assume it is much faster than 44 knots. Matter of fact, this is the demo the 688i was doing that took out that japanese tour boat a while back.
-S
GunnersMate
03-07-06, 05:16 PM
Imagine an E-blow on an Alfa going 45kt! :o
"Is there a mission today Plesetsk Cosmodrome?"
"....."
SUBMAN1
03-07-06, 05:27 PM
Lets put this into perspective. Here is an image of the USS Houston popping out of the water extremely fast - Do you realize that this sub is 360 feet long? Does it make sense to you that this means that this nose is sticking 100 feet in the air? This is not 20 feet here - but 100 feet in the air! 30 meters!
-S
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6c/Ssn713_embtb.jpg
Kapitan
03-07-06, 05:30 PM
Yes i know this but to get that result you dont nessaserily have to be going at flank to achieve this, now immagine a typhoon !
sonar732
03-07-06, 05:40 PM
Yes i know this but to get that result you dont nessaserily have to be going at flank to achieve this, now immagine a typhoon !
Kaptain,
You are dead wrong. If it's an indication, when the boat breaches the surface and "falls back down", the crew actually "lifts" off their seats from the momentum. Also, while the EBT is administered, everyone either grabs a bar, or buckles themselves to their seats.
EDIT: To add to your prospective, my experience was on an Ohio Class!
Kapitan
03-07-06, 05:56 PM
I know that its called negative G like being on a rollercoaster when one minuet your stuck fast to the seat and the next your being pulled out.
what i ment by my statement is you dont have to be going fast to plonk your nose out of the water Eblow should give you that up angle and half speed or a tad faster.
sonar732
03-07-06, 06:42 PM
what i ment by my statement is you dont have to be going fast to plonk your nose out of the water
For one, a captain wouldn't "plonk" the nose out of the water unless they are performing a EMBT. To "plonk" the nose out that far, the EMBT is the only way.
TLAM Strike
03-07-06, 07:00 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6c/Ssn713_embtb.jpg When it comes to E-Blows I've always liked this image better...
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h97000/h97019.jpg
Do that with a nuc! :rock:
Of course there is the USS Chopper:
http://www.geocities.com/jaob/deepdive.htm
SUBMAN1
03-08-06, 10:43 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6c/Ssn713_embtb.jpg When it comes to E-Blows I've always liked this image better...
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h97000/h97019.jpg
Do that with a nuc! :rock:
Of course there is the USS Chopper:
http://www.geocities.com/jaob/deepdive.htm
Wow! (Speechless)
-S
SUBMAN1
03-08-06, 10:56 AM
Lets do the math here on the subject and bury it once and for all. This is only rough estimating, but it is fairly accurate.
688i is 360 feet long, which makes it at least 100 feet to the sail.
The videos I have seen of an EBT show the water traveling from the front of the nose back to the sail in less than a second, which means it is traveling faster than 100 feet per second.
5280 feet = 1 mile
If it were 'only' traveling at 100 feet per second, the math works out to traveling 6000 feet a minute, or over 60 MPH at 68.181816 MPH, which equates to 59.808609 knots.
So we know that it is traveling faster than 60 knots just by the video images. I estimate that 75 knots with an EBT is very much a possibility and a reality. Possibly even faster.
-S
Bellman
03-08-06, 02:28 PM
:rock: :cool: Nice work Subman1 :up:
GunnersMate
03-08-06, 02:29 PM
Look if you bubbleheads really want to be an airplane get a P3 ! :lol: :know:
Kapitan
03-08-06, 04:29 PM
Break down your working's out and show us in detail how you got that im intrigued, cause that means the akula tops out at over 70 mph
sonar732
03-08-06, 04:33 PM
Break down your working's out and show us in detail how you got that im intrigued, cause that means the akula tops out at over 70 mph
I'll break it down for you Kap...let it go, you don't know what you're talking about.
Kapitan
03-08-06, 04:42 PM
No im just curious to how he worked it out, i just want to know how he did the math, not trying to prove him wrong but im generaly intreguged into how he did it and i want to know how.
Its curiosity mainly and the motive is to learn not to be arrogant. (if i have used that word in the right form)
sonar732
03-08-06, 04:46 PM
No im just curious to how he worked it out, i just want to know how he did the math.
He showed you how he came up with the math.
Kapitan
03-08-06, 04:49 PM
Hmmm ok il have to read then re read again a few times before it clicks.
redbrow
03-09-06, 03:17 AM
what to do with 60 to 70 knots? buy your mechs back at base a case of vodka!
SUBMAN1
03-09-06, 07:56 PM
Break down your working's out and show us in detail how you got that im intrigued, cause that means the akula tops out at over 70 mph
I have the damn video embedded in an email, and I can't remove it. I only get the first damn frame. Helpp!!! If I get it figured out, I will post it here.
-S
PS. Yes - your akula has the same capability - probably even faster since the 688i is probably doing 85+ MPH, so the Akula is probably hitting 90 MPH
sonar732
03-09-06, 09:36 PM
Break down your working's out and show us in detail how you got that im intrigued, cause that means the akula tops out at over 70 mph
I have the damn video embedded in an email, and I can't remove it. I only get the first damn frame. Helpp!!! If I get it figured out, I will post it here.
-S
PS. Yes - your akula has the same capability - probably even faster since the 688i is probably doing 85+ MPH, so the Akula is probably hitting 90 MPH
If the attachment is in an email thru Outlook or OE, just right click and save as...
GunnersMate
03-10-06, 01:39 PM
Here's a screenshot of a Seawolf doing a Full E-Blow at 35 kts from 2100fthttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-2/1151416/dump00484467.JPG
SUBMAN1
03-10-06, 04:24 PM
Break down your working's out and show us in detail how you got that im intrigued, cause that means the akula tops out at over 70 mph
I have the damn video embedded in an email, and I can't remove it. I only get the first damn frame. Helpp!!! If I get it figured out, I will post it here.
-S
PS. Yes - your akula has the same capability - probably even faster since the 688i is probably doing 85+ MPH, so the Akula is probably hitting 90 MPH
If the attachment is in an email thru Outlook or OE, just right click and save as...
It wants to save it as a bmp. I tried to copy paste it out of Outlook, but it won't go. I think I have an idea though.
-S
SUBMAN1
03-10-06, 04:26 PM
Here's a screenshot of a Seawolf doing a Full E-Blow at 35 kts from 2100ft
Yeah - someone should do an experiment with a streamlined cork to see what types of speeds we can attain! :) I assume a cork that is in a ball type shape, with air pumped into the center could acheive some dramatic speeds!
-S
SUBMAN1
03-10-06, 04:48 PM
Well, this vid will have to do then since I can't find the one I really want. I have another one that is more clear, but I need to find that.
-S
PS. To imagine that that thing is 360 feet long and the water is moving past it that fast!!
PPS. Can someone tell me why my Firefox is not playing this at full FPS? IE plays it at full FPS, but Firefox seems to take its time.
http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/3571/image0017si.gif
Wim Libaers
03-12-06, 09:16 AM
Here's a screenshot of a Seawolf doing a Full E-Blow at 35 kts from 2100ft
Yeah - someone should do an experiment with a streamlined cork to see what types of speeds we can attain! :) I assume a cork that is in a ball type shape, with air pumped into the center could acheive some dramatic speeds!
-S
Probably not, unless you used a really big cork. Small objects won't go as fast as large ones, because their ratio of surface area to volume (which, for similar structures, more or less corresponds to a friction to weight/buoyant force ration) is bigger for small things.
sonar732
03-12-06, 08:24 PM
Well, this vid will have to do then since I can't find the one I really want. I have another one that is more clear, but I need to find that.
-S
PS. To imagine that that thing is 360 feet long and the water is moving past it that fast!!
PPS. Can someone tell me why my Firefox is not playing this at full FPS? IE plays it at full FPS, but Firefox seems to take its time.
http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/3571/image0017si.gif
The video in your sig does fine on my firefox.
pwrmetal
03-17-06, 12:34 PM
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/9800/08522038hh.jpg
:o
pwrmetal
03-17-06, 01:54 PM
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/9800/08522038hh.jpg
http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/9977/08522302ks.jpg
if the top speed wasn't secret we could solve the problem but on this newspaper it was a secret as the sub was an essential part for WWII
amazing ain't it :rock:
Really makes you think at those ideas of revolutionary vehicles, like he could deploy wings and start to fly :lol:
Bilge_Rat
03-22-06, 05:20 PM
I just read the USS Chopper deep dive story. Fascinating that a sub could go from 150 down to almost 1,000 feet and back to the surface in 2 minutes.
I like these two bits of typically understated military prose:
"The commanding officer was attempting to calm the men and in control and restore order. "
"At this stage of the incident many personnel could no longer recall what occurred, as evidenced by written statements and tape recordings."
It must have been sheer hell, even for trained submariners.
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