New Virtual Fleet forming.

[Fish]

There is now a brand new virtual fleet at; http://www.globalnavalstrikeforce.com/main.htm

The site is still in progress.

[donw]

Huh??
Has Seawolves disbanded????

[Bellman]

Global Naval Strike Force has a very impressive roster and an organisation which is designed and tasked
for success in a new game environment. :|\

[Molon Labe]

Huh??
Has Seawolves disbanded????

Not disbanded, but there has been quite a bit of disagreement. Several people were told to either fall in line or leave... so they did. :|\

I think the new GSNF will be a lot like the old Seawolves, only better... :rock:

[MaHuJa]

What caused the rift?

[Bellman]

Nice to see the 'Neutral' rule back in - if it ever left. :hmm:

So I guess the GNSF will be a 'League of Gentlemen.'

As a former Seawolf, who left over two years ago, I will refrain from commenting, save to say in facing the
the prospect of the reorganisation necessary to accomodate DW, some Senior SW Officers adopted all the
characteristics of British Army Generals in the First World War - and you know what was said of them.

The current GNSF senior officer team will implement changes which will enhance the Fleets ability to offer
a first class gameing experience.

In the middle ranks are Officers of the highest fighting and training ability who command the respect of
all who have served with them.

Good luck to the lions.

[Fish]

32 members and growing. :yep:

[Kapitan]

'League of Gentlemen.'

More like the league of liars

[Driftwood]

'League of Gentlemen.'

More like the league of liars

Ahhhhh.......I remember when I had my first beer..........

[Stern]

LTJG Kapitain 5th SW

Well sir, glad to see your so up on the inner workings of the Seawolves upper COC, seeing you’ve been a Seawolf member for such a long time .... lets see Jan 16 2006.... one whole month !!!!!. And in such a short period of time you have all the knowledge to not only make a determination on everything, but to also call players that were SW's for over 7 years liars.

Its good to know there are still people that can join an organization and be totally programmed in less than a month. Well, you have a great time there sir, and I am sure you will go far with such a great attitude. Just try not to hurt your knees, should get some of those kneepads.

Someone that was still in Seawolves when you were in diapers (that would be last week).

FADM Stern GNSF

[Molon Labe]

Hmmm, maybe you can find the Lewinski-autographed edition on Ebay...

:hmm:

[Takeda Shingen]

Having tried my hand at running a VF, I know how much work it can be. Good luck, guys. Your site looks great, and I am sure that many, many people will have countless hours of fun there.

While I have no side in the Seawolves argument, I will say that I think League of Liars is a particularly lame insult. I keep invisioning some sort of Justice League-style supervillain group.

[Sea Demon]

Good luck with this new group. :up: Good to see.

[MaHuJa]

...in facing the the prospect of the reorganisation necessary to accomodate DW, some Senior SW Officers adopted all the
characteristics of British Army Generals in the First World War - and you know what was said of them.


"And probably familiar with the reputations of many of them as ‘donkeys’ who sent their lion-hearted men to brutal deaths on squalid battlefields, the state of which they were culpably ignorant and from whose deprivations they were comfortably remote."

At first I thought that I could see where that came from. But the same "error" I saw then *seems* to be happening again with the new place, so it's probably something else. Care to elaborate?

[Kapitan]

Acctualy stern this was my second time back to seawolves been in a month this time, i was a seawolf back in 2004 also.

I aint bias to you lot its just the way you handled seawolves and if its any thing like that this new fleet then why bother, i dont hate no one but what you tried to do on seawolves and i am the ever present pest is just plain stupid.

Reason i left the first time is because you were ordering changes to the ROE for the game i played, strangly enough you never played it and you tried doing it again but this time we woke up to that.

Sorry if you cant get your own way and total controll over the seawolves but maybe now you can, then you can have all those people who worship you (frankly i dont) join and see what the out come is.

here is my wager 55 to 1 it dont work, you may have got a few friends of mine over there but il never join not that i dont want to just the principle.

[Bellman]

:D MaHuJa - your words, not mine. I had in mind the unwillingness of 1st WW UK generals, many of whom
were cavalry officers to absorb the impact of the tank and German stormtrooper tactics into strategy.
The relevance is the quality and character of military planning and the ability and flexibility to reshape
an organisation in the face of new technology.

The Seawolves saw DW approaching over the horizon and did not set the wheels in motion to reorganise
for 'combined actions' and platform based team play. But then has anyone else yet ? It is , as currently demontrated
by the separation, a painful process which nobody , participants or spectators, enjoys.

MHJ:But the same "error" I saw then *seems* to be happening again with the new place, so it's probably something else

That remains to be seen. I see no ''error'' in the organisational structure and I see no 'cavalry' type officers.
But ''error''is your term - perhaps you will explain ?

Online fleets can only respond to existing sims and plan for known in-the pipeline ones. The 'integration' of
surface and subsurface branches of existing 'Fleets' is a thorny question. Current sims and I know of none
planned, do not provide the software infrastructure to simulate a naval group with a 'Force Command' structure.
So the mirroring of reality is not possible. We do not have a quasi 'Fleet Command' sim with DW hands-on
implementation. Though I have canvassed this consistently.

Given our existing sim platforms IMO the impact of the subs is strategic, while that of the other platforms is tactical
There existed in the SWs a pool of officers with high levels of expertise in all submarine activity, particuarly DW
- So, forgive the pun - Whose on top ? Whose in charge ? Who should be ? Would submariners accept
integration, and possible subordination, to Surf Brass ?

Questions which are both practical and political.

[Fish]

Acctualy stern this was my second time back to seawolves been in a month this time, i was a seawolf back in 2004 also.

I aint bias to you lot its just the way you handled seawolves and if its any thing like that this new fleet then why bother, i dont hate no one but what you tried to do on seawolves and i am the ever present pest is just plain stupid.

Reason i left the first time is because you were ordering changes to the ROE for the game i played, strangly enough you never played it and you tried doing it again but this time we woke up to that.



----- Original Message -----
From: ---- ----
To: Willem Peschier
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: Subschool



~S~ sir

the reason for not being at sub school is i am trying to solve a massive problem with my firewalls they wont allow me to play sub command online at all i have asked many people and the tech department and still is no use so i realy dont know at the moment!

sorry Kapitain (name edited)

[XabbaRus]

I suggest that this thread moves on PDQ or at least take the bitchin to PM.

[goldorak]

Fascinating debate, much more interesting than your run of the mill soap opera on tv. :arrgh!: :-j :rotfl:

[Kapitan]

please edit my name fish,

i got nothing against you guys just the way stern handled seawolves made me p***ed

[Bellman]

Xab is right.

I have, I think, been analytical, and not personal. I certainly have no axe to grind - real life issues alone
took me out of the Seawolves ranks. So I certainly have nothing but happy memories of a lot of bubblehead MP fun.

I have great respect for the llkes of Paul, Fish and Sparks and many others who put a tremendous amount
into the SW community. I know that wherever they settle, they will maintain very high standards of training and
integrity of play. They are gentlemen in the true sense. Good luck to them all. :|\

[OneShot]

With the net at your fingertips (and forums) you don't need to watch soap operas anymore ...

To pick a thought from Bellman (and thus taking this thread a bit OT) ... The integration of DW into a Virtual Fleet is quite possible and can work, that however demands some sacrifices from the existing structures. I experienced this in the USVN where the initial notion was similar to the Seawolves to displace the playable plattforms amongst the current departments, means NAVAIR, SUBFOR, SURFOR. Fortunatly this was seen as futile (after a lot of lobbying) and thus one new Department (7th Fleet) was created to be the homeport for Dangerous Waters. There were multiple Squadrons for the various Units to resemble a Fleet structure, but basically it was one "Division" under a single Commander.

Why I'm talking in the past? Because 7th Fleet was not to long ago disbanded, reason for that mostly lack of people to play. Still the concept was sound (as can be seen at the new Fleet) it just lacked the necessary number of players to make it work and some energetic leaders to hold it together.

[Bellman]

GNSF appears to be organised into Task Forces so that is progress in the right direction.

''TASK FORCES

The GNSF are split up into Task Forces. Task Force has air, sea and land combat capabilities. Each TF acts as separate
entities within the GNSF structure. This allows us to have "TF vs TF" engagements. Each Task Forces has a TFC (Task Force
Commander and an Executive Officer (TFXO). Other staff can be added at the TFC's request (Comms, Tactical, Intel... etc)
The TFXO acts in full support of the TFC. Each Task Force has it's own homepage. TFC have the ability to award certain
Ribbons and Medals .''

Their ROEs carry penalties (rightly) for destroying Neutrals -

''All members playing on the same platform in DW will get the points for any legal kills made by that platform.
If a player/platform kills a neutral or friendly, 20 points will be deducted from the total dive score. If the total is
negative, it is brought back to 1 point. All players will still get credit for the legitimate kills, but will NOT receive
the points if a neutral is killed.''

OS criticism is valid in that it was always a struggle to get a predetermined group of players online
at the same time. If a new Fleet has quality Officers at the 'sharp-end' I think it will attract those who appreciate
such an experience and those Officers will motivate and lead, and as OS said ''hold it together.''

The essence of the appeal of Task Force organisation is that it can exploit the existing and future potential of DW
It will bring players together to train as teams, not only on platforms, but as a combined Group
with units cooperating and coordinating their activities. It promises some exciting inter-group battles.

Train together - win together.

[Driftwood]

please edit my name fish,

i got nothing against you guys just the way stern handled seawolves made me p***ed

Kapitain, how can you expect people to take you seriously on any subject when you come into a thread that is progressing nicely and toss a molotov cocktail like......"More like the league of liars........"???? :o What? Did you think for one second that people were going to sit back and let that unenlightened comment pass without challenge? Being upset with one person because they didn't run things as you saw fit does not give you free reign to call us all "liars." My sincere desire here for you is that some learning takes place. IMHO an apology is owed for the original comment you made.

[Fish]

OK guys, lets stop this, this was only meant to announce a new fleet. Not to start a flame (perhaps a was a litle naive :hmm: ).

[Fandango]

Guys,

will you show up in Hyperlobby or will you keep it "exclusive"?...

[Fish]

Guys,

will you show up in Hyperlobby or will you keep it "exclusive"?...

Every member is free to play where ever he want, there is just one exception, you may not hold a command position in a other virtual fleet.
Oh, and members cannot report dives with people outside the fleet.

[Fandango]

Ok!. Hyperlobby would be more crowded if members of virtual fleets joined it sometimes... :ping:

[TC]

To all Members of SubSIM,
I am TC and I am with the SeaWolves VN. I want to apologize to you all for the bitterness spilled over into your forum. We had it all in the SW Forum before the break up and it was not pleasant to say the least. I am sorry to see that it is still going on here.

I have instructed all SW members to stay away from this forum as far as posting any replies to GFVN members. It is useless and not doing either VN any good.

To FADM Stern GFVN, I wish you and your VN God Speed and Fair Winds on your maiden voyage.

ADM TC CNOSVN
SeaWolf to the core.

[Fandango]

TC,

tell SW members to participate actively in the forum... :ping:

[Bellman]

Nicely put TC - some young guy burned a little hot, but we are used to him, allow for it and like his enthusiasm,
when its chaneled into the positive side.

Lets drink to the Seawolves and GNSF - Cheers. :D :up:

[Molon Labe]

To all Members of SubSIM,
I am TC and I am with the SeaWolves VN. I want to apologize to you all for the bitterness spilled over into your forum. We had it all in the SW Forum before the break up and it was not pleasant to say the least. I am sorry to see that it is still going on here.

I have instructed all SW members to stay away from this forum as far as posting any replies to GFVN members. It is useless and not doing either VN any good.

To FADM Stern GFVN, I wish you and your VN God Speed and Fair Winds on your maiden voyage.

ADM TC CNOSVN
SeaWolf to the core.

TC,

Thanks. As Bellman said, there was a cheap shot earlier. You're absolutely right that there's no need to air our dirty laundry, and I wish you the best of luck with the SVN.

[Fish]

To all Members of SubSIM,
I am TC and I am with the SeaWolves VN. I want to apologize to you all for the bitterness spilled over into your forum. We had it all in the SW Forum before the break up and it was not pleasant to say the least. I am sorry to see that it is still going on here.

I have instructed all SW members to stay away from this forum as far as posting any replies to GFVN members. It is useless and not doing either VN any good.

To FADM Stern GFVN, I wish you and your VN God Speed and Fair Winds on your maiden voyage.

ADM TC CNOSVN
SeaWolf to the core.

TC,

Thanks. As Bellman said, there was a cheap shot earlier. You're absolutely right that there's no need to air our dirty laundry, and I wish you the best of luck with the SVN.

Cheers. :up:

[Stern]

Kapitain

Sir, you post here but show you really have no clue as to the things your talking about. If you want to feel peeved off at me because you didn’t get your way in the past, no problem, trash me all you want. I however think its disgusting to call all the good people here "the league of liars", and it is to them you should apologize.

You know nothing of the reasons why people left, and most don’t, and I won’t waste my time explaining it here in an open forum. I could paste up a site section with all the details and Emails, but that would only hurt Seawolves and the good people there. I will take your "bet" since you have already lost, as even if this group has only 3 people playing the games the way they were meant to be played, then as far as I am concerned its a huge success.

As for everyone else here, please realize that Seawolves is still a great group, and the players there are the best. Regardless of what anyone says, I was and always will be a Seawolf in my heart, and I wish them nothing but the best of luck and prosperity. We are here where we are now, not because Seawolves was a bad place, or I have to have it MY way (MY way means squat, its what the players want that is important), but simply because some wanted to move in a new direction.

Just so others know, the GNSF is not being set up as sub or DW only group, as we will be bringing in many other games, from shooter games (RS, GR, Battlefield etc) to air sims (Falcon 4 etc), what ever the player like to play. Our main vision is to have a group that can play the sim(s) they choose, in one place (no separate divisions) under one COC. This will eliminate the top heavy COC and allow ALL members to play as one huge "family" and not "separate groups within the group". It would be nice to get a sim that incorporated all of these things, but it wont happen, so we aim to set up a group where all sims can be played to the full extent of their capabilities.

In closing, I am more than happy to talk about the GNSF with anyone, or answer any questions anyone may have. I will however not get into mud slinging with anyone, as that is now why we are all here. We are here to have fun, play games, and talk with each other.

Thank you all

FADM Stern GNSF

[Stern]

ADM TC

Please do not take this one instance as being anything major, as it was only one person. Everyone here and reading this forum knows the Seawolves and all the good people there.

As for game play with other players not in GNSF, we actually haven’t even got that far yet. I would like to think that we could live hand in hand with Seawolves and other virtual groups, as it just increases the player base and make for more fun.

I will keep anyone interested posted on our progress, as right now I think the guys are under so much paperwork and web stuff, they probably cant find their CD drives lol

FADM Stern GNSF

[XabbaRus]

I think it is time to let things lie.

A virtual fleet is nothing to get worked up about, although I can see why some people might. Whether some split away from a fleet to set up their own because they have a different way of doing things and can accomplish it in their own space or some adapt their fleet to the new sim, it really shouldn't cause problems.

The more fleets I guess is for the better.

I think the justifications should end and this thread allowed to tail off. The announcement has been made, if people are interested then they know where to go. There shouldn't be any sniping across the forums, people should be allowed to make up their own mind which fleet they want to be in and which one suits them to their needs.

[Kapitan]

Im not even going to reply because its just going to make things worse.

but i hope that we all can play together some day in the future

[kapitanfred]

Yes, I'm glad to be part of it :up:

[darksythe]

Im just trying to fiqure out how Kapitain is a member of the Seawolves, and also under my command at the VMC.

Kapitain you have a lot to answer for over at the VMC. So i hope that you can make your self happy with either the SVN or the GNSF.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To Seawolves, and GNSF,
Best of luck to both navies.

[Fandango]

Im just trying to fiqure out how Kapitain is a member of the Seawolves, and also under my command at the VMC.

Kapitain you have a lot to answer for over at the VMC. So i hope that you can make your self happy with either the SVN or the GNSF.


This is not good either...my personal opinion... :down:

[Fish]

Im just trying to fiqure out how Kapitain is a member of the Seawolves, and also under my command at the VMC.

Kapitain you have a lot to answer for over at the VMC. So i hope that you can make your self happy with either the SVN or the GNSF.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To Seawolves, and GNSF,
Best of luck to both navies.

Thanks Sir. :up:

[madcap30]

he can very well be a part of a different fleet as long as he dosnt hold a staff posistion. so that´s not a problem.

:cool:

[Kapitan]

and as i dont hold staff position in niether fleet i therefore do not have to worry.

i suggest reading the ROE ?

[XabbaRus]

I thought you held a staff position in VMC?

[sonar732]

I thought you held a staff position in VMC?

He use to.

[sonar732]

he can very well be a part of a different fleet as long as he dosnt hold a staff posistion. so that´s not a problem.

:cool:

Maybe for your fleet. :nope:

[OneShot]

I know that in the USVN for example you had to decide ... either be part of the USVN or another Fleet/Group (unless of course you play totally different games on both, on that occasion the CNO could grant a waiver - Example DW in the USVN and some console game in another group). And if somebody was found to be an active member of another group while being part of the USVN he would be discharged unless he was in good standing and immediatly ceased membership in the other Fleet. More often then not I have seen people who have been part of 2 or more Virtual Fleets, sometimes under the same, sometimes under other names.

Being part of two fleets might offer you more time/chances to play, but then you will fface a lot of compromises ... for example if both Teams you are part of have scheduled a game at the same time ... which one will you be part of ... somebody will always loose. Further, my experience has shown me that those people are not really commited to either group and will leave pretty quickly if not everything goes there way ... which in the end was no real loss.

[darksythe]

and as i dont hold staff position in niether fleet i therefore do not have to worry.

i suggest reading the ROE ?

:nope: The VMC does not allow any such thing and Kapitain knows it.:nope:

even if the vmc as a did i dont i wont have it in red fleet consider your self on report. and pending investigation your removal from the red fleet.

I would tell you this on our own forums if you ever showed up there anymore.

[Skorn]

Best of luck to all of you guys, I hope your fleet prospers and surpasses all of your expectations! I agree that sometimes things do need to be changed up, good luck and good hunting.

[Kapitan]

I aint arguing darksythe consider this resignation from VMC.


Also one shot the USVN was something i knew nothing about to be honest i had a message from a guy i never knew saying that id joined his fleet and that ive been placed inactive, i even sat there for half an hour explaining it all.

I was not part of the USVN i dont even know thier website if they have one.

[Ramius]

I was not part of the USVN i dont even know thier website if they have one.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

So this isn't you then ????

http://www.vmcnavy.net/community/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=10

[Molon Labe]

I was not part of the USVN i dont even know thier website if they have one.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

So this isn't you then ????

http://www.vmcnavy.net/community/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=10

I thought USVN and VMC were separate organizations?

[OneShot]

Oh yes they are ... and actually I was just using the USVN as an example because I've been part of it for a damn long time and know the Rules & Regulations of the USVN pretty good, not because Kapitain was part of it. But then ... well let me take a look at the roster ;) (Doesn't look like you are on it, but if so ... I have yet to hear from some one that he was signed up to the USVN without his knowledge ...)

Oh and just for the curious ...
- Active Roster (http://www.usvn.net/modules.php?name=navpers&sw=roster)
- Inactives/Reserve/Retired Roster (http://www.usvn.net/modules.php?name=navpers&sw=irs)

[XabbaRus]

Was VMC not USVN at somepoint?

I also thought VMC was USMORS...gets confusing having all these fleets..I say merge them... :-j

[XabbaRus]

and as i dont hold staff position in niether fleet i therefore do not have to worry.

i suggest reading the ROE ?

:nope: The VMC does not allow any such thing and Kapitain knows it.:nope:

even if the vmc as a did i dont i wont have it in red fleet consider your self on report. and pending investigation your removal from the red fleet.

I would tell you this on our own forums if you ever showed up there anymore.

Is that not just a little anal though, on report. OK so I can kinda see why you might be a little upset in the virtual fleet world but hey...let Kapitain go his own way...we should all be used to him by now. Kind of like we got used to boomer.

[OneShot]

To my knowledge USVN and VMC don't have common roots ... they have been and are totally separate organisations. I'm not sure when and how the VMC was founded, but the USVN was founded in 1999 and initially only played Jane's ATF (or so) ... only later on did it expand and include other games like Rogue Spear, Ghost Recon, Jane's F/A-18 to name just a few.

[darksythe]

and as i dont hold staff position in niether fleet i therefore do not have to worry.

i suggest reading the ROE ?

:nope: The VMC does not allow any such thing and Kapitain knows it.:nope:

even if the vmc as a did i dont i wont have it in red fleet consider your self on report. and pending investigation your removal from the red fleet.

I would tell you this on our own forums if you ever showed up there anymore.

Is that not just a little anal though, on report. OK so I can kinda see why you might eb a little upset inthe virtual fleet world but hey...let Kapitain go his own way...we should all be used to him by now. Kind of like we got used to boomer.

As you should know in order to maintain a working group a adherence to the rules for everyone is a must have.

I have no grudges on kapitain but you must understand that he used deception to get away from the vmc with out quiting so that he could join the seawolves. He applied for a leave of abscence relating to family maters then poof he suddenly appears with the SW. we dont mind if someone leaves our Fleet but we do expect the courtesy and respect of that person (especialy if they hold a flag rank) to tender his or her resignation before hand.

[Raven434th]

Just looked at the site...no opfor??What happens if you wanna be an akula driver??

[Kind Seas]

Blair,

For people here who doesnt know who i am, Im Acking CNO at the VMC, AMD William Burgess,

RADM Blair Shaw, You Do hold a staff placement, you are CO of the Northern fleet, you are just on leave, But now hearing that you went on a LOA to join another group has put me in a bad mood,

And your resignation i will not accept it, This is not VMC Comms bit i will give you something, I will be putting you up for JAG,

Now on to other things, The VMC is a stand alone group, We were started back in 1992 i believe known as the Submariners, We are the Olders groups out there Any Question should be pointed to me and not to ship jumpers

[XabbaRus]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[darksythe]

and yes i do recognise the similarity to boomer :yep: :-j

[darksythe]

Just looked at the site...no opfor??What happens if you wanna be an akula driver??

Then you would talk to me. the comredfleet.

we have a russian division.

note my sig.

[Raven434th]

Now I'm totally confused...So there's two vitual navies combined into one DW gaming organization??(didn't see the Russian Fleet on the site anywhere?)

[Kind Seas]

We have not yet updated our site, We are remaking our site

[darksythe]

both fleets operate independant of each other at the same time being able to plan out operations together. so that the 2 fleets can pose OPFOR for each other.

And yes the website is in dire need of updating.

in order to obtain info about the redfleet you would have to join.

sorry i know that it should be the other way around. but it isnt right now due to the fact that i am yet to design a site for the redfleet.

but the redfleet is very much a part of the vmc navy. we have a JCS to help integrate the operations of both the american and the russian fleet.

[Takeda Shingen]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I concur. It's like when three kindergarteners decide to play armyman at recess.

[freddo]

Being a newbie to DW I've never had the opportunity to belong to a "present day" virtual Naval Task Force. I've joined up with Global Naval Strike Force to become part of an elite group of dedicated people who enjoy the challenge of naval protocol, tactics, training and anything else that makes it worth while belonging to.

Another reason for joining up is that I like the Command Structure they've put in place. Being an ex military member myself, I know that "the Command Structure" is one of the most important aspects of controlling a "Force" element being Naval or otherwise.

I'm proud to be part of the "team".

NOW, I'm sure there are many great virtual fleets around, (well I know now after reading this post) but guys, I thought this post was about advising that a new virtual fleet is forming!!

Best wishes to all virtual fleets out there.

[Driftwood]

Being a newbie to DW I've never had the opportunity to belong to a "present day" virtual Naval Task Force. I've joined up with Global Naval Strike Force to become part of an elite group of dedicated people who enjoy the challenge of naval protocol, tactics, training and anything else that makes it worth while belonging to.

Another reason for joining up is that I like the Command Structure they've put in place. Being an ex military member myself, I know that "the Command Structure" is one of the most important aspects of controlling a "Force" element being Naval or otherwise.

I'm proud to be part of the "team".

NOW, I'm sure there are many great virtual fleets around, (well I know now after reading this post) but guys, I thought this post was about advising that a new virtual fleet is forming!!

Best wishes to all virtual fleets out there.

<S> Welcome aboard! :up:

[Molon Labe]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I concur. It's like when three kindergarteners decide to play armyman at recess.

You hit the nail on the head.
Unfortunately, the most open group has all this red tape you have to go through to file a report.... Didn't stop me today though. Our first STAT in 7 months!

[darksythe]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I concur. It's like when three kindergarteners decide to play armyman at recess.

You hit the nail on the head.
Unfortunately, the most open group has all this red tape you have to go through to file a report.... Didn't stop me today though. Our first STAT in 7 months!

its called realism through simulation......

and you may be supprised at how many people that actualy have a open mind enjoy that sort of thing.
if you dont thats fine. no need to subject the rest of us to your childish insults.

[Molon Labe]

You can have realistic simulations without insisting that someone has to forsake all others. There's nothing wrong with being parts of multiple groups, especially in a community as small as ours when games are hard to come by. Not allowing people to do that, insisting they only play in your club is what's childish.

[darksythe]

You can have realistic simulations without insisting that someone has to forsake all others. There's nothing wrong with being parts of multiple groups, especially in a community as small as ours when games are hard to come by. Not allowing people to do that, insisting they only play in your club is what's childish.

The fact you suffer from partial iliteracy must realy suck for you when it comes time to stick your foot in your mouth.
Who said anyone couldnt play with others? I dont remember saying such a thing. Maybe you should talk to the other virtual navies and ask them why they dont let people who are not in there organizations take part in there games?
That just about divides the blame evenly doesnt it?
of course i dont expect you to understand such a reasonable response.

[Molon Labe]

You can have realistic simulations without insisting that someone has to forsake all others. There's nothing wrong with being parts of multiple groups, especially in a community as small as ours when games are hard to come by. Not allowing people to do that, insisting they only play in your club is what's childish.

The fact you suffer from partial iliteracy must realy suck for you when it comes time to stick your foot in your mouth.
Who said anyone couldnt play with others? I dont remember saying such a thing. Maybe you should talk to the other virtual navies and ask them why they dont let people who are not in there organizations take part in there games?
That just about divides the blame evenly doesnt it?
of course i dont expect you to understand such a reasonable response.

You guys are in the minority on this, as far as I can tell anyways. SW, NCHQ, and GNSF allow you to be members of other fleets. You and USVN don't. Am I forgetting anyone? Not that it matters...since I AM reasonable enough to know that saying that other people do it too is a worthless argument. ;)

[sonar732]

As it was stated earlier, the major reason why "Kaptain" was in trouble with the VMC is because he requested a Leave Of Absence for family reasons, but was able to dive with Seawolves. I understand the obvious loyalty that "darksythe" has to the VMC, but even Will Burgess earlier asked for questions to be directed AND answered by himself.

Any Question should be pointed to me...

I'll leave it at this...

The bickering must stop. We are in a public forum that is here basically to encourage people to buy Dangerous Waters and to join an online game or two. If the people who are buying the game see the bickering between virtual fleets...what motivation will they have to join any of them? :roll:

[SKeeM]

You can have realistic simulations without insisting that someone has to forsake all others. There's nothing wrong with being parts of multiple groups, especially in a community as small as ours when games are hard to come by. Not allowing people to do that, insisting they only play in your club is what's childish.

The fact you suffer from partial iliteracy must realy suck for you when it comes time to stick your foot in your mouth.
Who said anyone couldnt play with others? I dont remember saying such a thing. Maybe you should talk to the other virtual navies and ask them why they dont let people who are not in there organizations take part in there games?
That just about divides the blame evenly doesnt it?
of course i dont expect you to understand such a reasonable
response.

I always laugh when someone takes a cheap shot at how someone spells. I am by far the worst speller on the net. But it (REALLY) kills me when I am in an invieroment that LOL, IMHO and STFU is excepted along with many many others. Someone will always try and insult your grammer wene there is nothing else to insult. So explain how bad grammer made his foot bigger? Really![/u]

[darksythe]

You can have realistic simulations without insisting that someone has to forsake all others. There's nothing wrong with being parts of multiple groups, especially in a community as small as ours when games are hard to come by. Not allowing people to do that, insisting they only play in your club is what's childish.

The fact you suffer from partial iliteracy must realy suck for you when it comes time to stick your foot in your mouth.
Who said anyone couldnt play with others? I dont remember saying such a thing. Maybe you should talk to the other virtual navies and ask them why they dont let people who are not in there organizations take part in there games?
That just about divides the blame evenly doesnt it?
of course i dont expect you to understand such a reasonable
response.

I always laugh when someone takes a cheap shot at how someone spells. I am by far the worst speller on the net. But it (REALLY) kills me when I am in an invieroment that LOL, IMHO and STFU is excepted along with many many others. Someone will always try and insult your grammer wene there is nothing else to insult. So explain how bad grammer made his foot bigger? Really![/u]

geez abother person who just cant get the gist of things i wasnt refering to spelling i was refering to taking a statement out of context.

[Bellman]

Reminds me of that 'ole song ''What a difference a day makes.'' :o :huh:

Fish Monday
OK guys, lets stop this, this was only meant to announce a new fleet. Not to start a flame

XabbaRus Monday
I think it is time to let things lie.

Bellman Monday
Lets drink to the Seawolves and GNSF - Cheers.

Molon Labe MondayYou're absolutely right that there's no need to air our dirty laundry, and I wish you the best of luck with the SVN.

Fish MondayCheers.

End of story ? No ! :arrgh!: ...........Revisit the thread and ask yourself what happened to some posters .........................
admirable but flawed intentions ? But, sanity returns:

sonar732 WednesdayIf the people who are buying the game see the bickering between virtual fleets....what motivation will they have to join any of them?

On shore we drink together - at sea we fight. Take your differences into the water -
Let's have some Fleet v Fleet in MP. :hulk:

[JamesT73J]

Sounds interesting. Seawolves organisation was just awesome, really something, but when I played SC there I always felt the poorer cousin to the 688i players.

I guess what I'm saying is that it doesn't come as a great surprise that there were 'change issues' with DW coming along.

[XabbaRus]

So is that it then? Can we all get back to normal?

For your fleet realism with your yes sirs, no sirs and JAGs and psuedo military stuff, can you keep that to private messages between the relevant people and keep it to your own forums?

Then we can all get along like grownups instead of primary school children in the playground.

[Fish]

You can have realistic simulations without insisting that someone has to forsake all others. There's nothing wrong with being parts of multiple groups, especially in a community as small as ours when games are hard to come by. Not allowing people to do that, insisting they only play in your club is what's childish.

The fact you suffer from partial iliteracy must realy suck for you when it comes time to stick your foot in your mouth.
Who said anyone couldnt play with others? I dont remember saying such a thing. Maybe you should talk to the other virtual navies and ask them why they dont let people who are not in there organizations take part in there games?
That just about divides the blame evenly doesnt it?
of course i dont expect you to understand such a reasonable response.

You guys are in the minority on this, as far as I can tell anyways. SW, NCHQ, and GNSF allow you to be members of other fleets. You and USVN don't. Am I forgetting anyone? Not that it matters...since I AM reasonable enough to know that saying that other people do it too is a worthless argument. ;)

I think we should reconsider to be member from other virtual fleets?
I think we should find a way we can play against each other though.
The problem with being member from other fleets give people the best of both fleets but doesn't have to wory about command postions and all the work which comes with it.

[Molon Labe]

I think we should reconsider to be member from other virtual fleets?
I think we should find a way we can play against each other though.
The problem with being member from other fleets give people the best of both fleets but doesn't have to wory about command postions and all the work which comes with it.

That's the fleet's choice to have that rule (more so than the players :P ) although this is definitely a more reasoned approach than outright banning. Besides, there's plenty of work to do in a fleet outside of command positions. JAG and R+D come to mind. =)

"Reconsidering" would be a really bad idea, because it would cost a brand new organization current and future members. How many people would join a group, without knowing what they were getting because they hadn't tried it out yet, if they had to leave the fleets where they knew what they had?

There's a reason I joined Seawolves instead of VMC or USVN a year ago...

[XabbaRus]

How hard can it be?

Agreement between fleets. You can only be a member of one fleet regardless of whether you hold a staff position or not.

Look at it like a football league. You choose the club you want to play with and stick with it. If you want to move you tell people, simple as that.

End of story.

What has transpired between Kapitain and his various fleets is a matter for private messages or the forums of those fleets.

[Bellman]

:D Agreed end of that story......
So putting aside contentious issues - a simple administrative question. Several people are still on the
roster of NCHQ so do we take it that membership of this ,regretably, almost defunct Fleet precludes
them from taking Command positions in other Fleets ?

Such 'Man of straw' membership of NCHQ presumably should be terminated. It does'nt seem to have
prevented, in some cases ,individuals taking membership of several Fleets, but as Fish said, in such 'machinery'
avoiding (not necessarily deliberately) Command responsibilities, duties and admin. :hmm:

I am not beeing provocative here - I am affected, beeing still on NCHQ roster but would terminate that to join XXX Fleet,
in order to make a full contribution. Facing future potential inter-fleet competition, I think its important
to have clearly demarked loyalties .

[Molon Labe]

How hard can it be?

Agreement between fleets. You can only be a member of one fleet regardless of whether you hold a staff position or not.

Look at it like a football league. You choose the club you want to play with and stick with it. If you want to move you tell people, simple as that.

End of story.

What has transpired between Kapitain and his various fleets is a matter for private messages or the forums of those fleets.

That analogy only works when all the "teams" are in the same "league" and they compete against each other regularly. Online navies mostly compete within themselves, only organizing interleague wars occasionally. I was in SW for a year before anything was organized with anyone outside of the league, for example.

[Molon Labe]

:D Agreed end of that story......
So putting aside contentious issues - a simple administrative question. Several people are still on the
roster of NCHQ so do we take it that membership of this ,regretably, almost defunct Fleet precludes
them from taking Command positions in other Fleets ?

Such 'Man of straw' membership of NCHQ presumably should be terminated. It does'nt seem to have
prevented, in some cases ,individuals taking membership of several Fleets, but as Fish said, in such 'machinery'
avoiding (not necessarily deliberately) Command responsibilities, duties and admin. :hmm:

I am not beeing provocative here - I am affected, beeing still on NCHQ roster but would terminate that to join XXX Fleet,
in order to make a full contribution. Facing future potential inter-fleet competition, I think its important
to have clearly demarked loyalties .

I think a league that doesn't trust its membership to act maturely in those extremely rare instances when there may be a conflict of interest, says a lot about itself. In psychology, it's called "projection." :yep:

[Bellman]

:) '' I was in SW for a year before anything was organized with anyone outside of the league, for example.''

Was it really equiped and organised to do it then ?
I think things are changing elsewhere - first inter Group action, then with new organisation inter-fleet warfare.

[Molon Labe]

Within groups, I'd agree, but I haven't seen anything anywhere in the fleets I'm participating in or at any of the various subsim forums that suggests that inter-league play is becoming the norm.

And why should it? Different leagues have different rules, structures, reporting systems, scenario standards, etc. You have to create a whole new temporary system to allow the war to begin with. It's a lot of effort to put into something that's only going to last a few weeks, when you already have a stable system in place for doing things within your own league.

[darksythe]

double post and the second one had the corrected spelling.

[darksythe]

the first thing necesary for extra-fleet operations is a set of rules that all of the fleets can agree to. i welcome any of the other fleet commanders to open up talks. As a representative of the VMC i can tell you wed be more then happy to come to the table and disscuss a global set of "Rules".

[Bellman]

I dont think anyone said anything about it becoming the norm :hmm:

As you said - it has been done. But appreciating the work you have put into organising such matters I
am sure that you have a fuller understanding of a task which may well lie over the horizon. When pressed I hope
that you might agree that it is very difficult - but surely not impossible ! :roll:

Now desirability, agreement about rules, resolving disputes are contentious issues. :yep:

[Nexus7]

As an enthusiastic participant of interfleet wars I am happy when new virtual fleets form, as it increases the chance to organize such fights :|\ witch are, in my 1.5 years experience, rare stuff...

The problem is probably generalized. If I compare DW with i.e. BF1942 or sooner Half Life, it is like comparing some village with a metropoli. IMO, there should be at least the double of players, say totally 1000, to grant the maximal gaming experience, especially now with a completely playable naval field (DW).

By the way, being so many virtual fleets around, is anyone interested in building some "supervisor" organization? like the ONU in RL or similar lol... An organization that works as "translator" between the virtual fleets, organizes wars, builds statistics, cares for advertising ecc ecc...

just an idea? :hmm:

[Kapitan]

Darksythe nothing personal but your begining to sound like me please stop i think these guys have enough of me and dont need a mirror :D

on the serious note if you ask steve sheer i did hand my resignation in TWICE i might add.

as for jag i do not care sorry but after all the hubub i dont need that, and as for family matters well that is true im due back in court on the 6th.

Now back to subject:

I hope we can all sort this out one way or the other and get to gaming ASAP cause this bikering doesnt help us the players find games especialy since were at each others throats it means games are limited.

[Bellman]

:) Kap - hold on to your horse there - a serious constructive discussion is taking place. We dont need Flak right now.

[Raven434th]

Ok ,well lets get back to the topic at hand...In regards to this new Navy/Fleet whatever,how are you dealing with the torpedeo bug which (I believe)directly affects MP sessions???I mean if ya can't dectect a torp comming in cause the pinging is messed up..how do we play multiplayer?Are there some set of rules to deal with this problem?

[Bellman]

Nexus7 has a good point about a 'Translator' organisation.

The initiative/s need to spring from the Fleets but they may wish to call on a pool of willing, experienced or
objectively neutral/independent people. Tasked with negotiating agreement on rules and arbitration principles for example.

But its early days as new Fleets like GNSF have large tasks in hand getting up and running. It would be
not be a welcome topic right now, understandably.

[JamesT73J]

With regard to the torpedo bug, I don't know how serious it is - presumably you still have signal strength indication, which is far more useful.

If it's got to the point where the ping interval is decreasing, you're already on the wrong side of the odds for survival.

[PaulB]

Ok ,well lets get back to the topic at hand...In regards to this new Navy/Fleet whatever,how are you dealing with the torpedeo bug which (I believe)directly affects MP sessions???I mean if ya can't dectect a torp comming in cause the pinging is messed up..how do we play multiplayer?Are there some set of rules to deal with this problem?

Right now we are just using 1.03 stock, with what flaws it has, and no particular rules to combat them. I believe the primarily flaw, apart from some funky handling/sub going up stern first, is with how preenabled torpedoes work - they seem to ping while they shouldn't. It's not that enabled torpedoes don't ping (not 100% sure on that but I haven't encountered it so far)- so, not a major problem. We hope SCS will provide a fix asap.

We may also be switching to the LwAmi realism mod for standard MP play if our membership wants it - not sure myself if that one ameliorates any of the big 1.03 flaws (like the torp issue), but it does have other enhancements which are quite interesting.

[Bellman]

James - We still have the signal strength in the AISS.

With the 'spoofing problem' torps are not as big deal now, under 2 nm, regretably. Sure Ami will work his magic, though. ;)

PaulB - the actives ping ok, but there is no increasing rate of ping in the terminal stages.

[Kapitan]

To be honest ive dived in a few MP games as a submarine and it hasnt realy affected it but the thing is the sub coming up stern first is the major issue here.

but we can still fire and sink in our subs.

[OneShot]

While I'm not in the USVN anymore (for a long time now) I remember having them a rule that allows players who are already part of another group to check out the USVN for two weeks after which they have to decide.

Another issue ... the rule about being part of two fleets only refers to fleets or similar vMilitary organizations. NCHQ (and similar leagues/groups) for example is exempt from that rule (to my knowledge) because even tho NCHQ has a few ranks they are only there to denote experience, but there is no real CoC at least in the usual term.

Anyway as far as USVN and DW goes it is a non-issue anyway as the USVN has no DW Department anymore.

Btw. Fair winds and following seas to the new Virtual Fleet.

[Bellman]

:D OS - good point on NCHQ. :up:

I second your best wishes to GNSF and all who sail in her. :|\

[Kind Seas]

If you guys have any questions please point them to my or Darkstyle pm boxs, But if your looking for a fight you can get that from me, VMC members are to ack like a VMC on any comms that have to do with Games/Fleets etc.. VMC members are to act like gentle men at all times, VMC members are to show honor and not engage into meaning less fights,

If all the fleets start fighting then people that are looking for one will not join the fleets that are fighting, Most people want a good fleet that put more time into their gaming then fighting

as to the GNSF, I wish you good luck and so does the VMC and same goes to all the fleets our there

now on that point lets get back to what this post was for the new fleet.

[Stern]

I would like to thank all for their well wishes for the GNSF, as it means a lot to us. We are moving along well and should be fully functional web wise very soon. Being that we have so many good talented people here I have had more time to read the forums and relax a bit lol (ok, truth is no one lets me do anything so they don’t have to fix my mistakes lol).

Anyway, in regards to inter group wars, I think when you really look at it, it shouldn’t be that hard. I know that in my 7 years with Seawolves we had problems finding OPFOR to battle against, and ended up creating our own OPFOR group. Now after reading this board it seem there are other groups that would welcome a chance to do battle, and I’m totally for it. Since we are all in some fashion modeled "military style" we should be able to set up common ROE to make all happy. I would be happy to talk to anyone who would be interested.

As for the "membership in more than one group" I can see the issue some have with holding staff spots in more than one place. I have thought about this a lot and basically I see no problem with being a member in more than one place. A person has to decide what he wants to do, and what to play. Now some say that’s fine but what about holding staff spots. Well, does it really matter if a player holds a staff spot in two places? If he does the required work in both spots then how is it hurting either group? Yes, I can see how some would see a possible problem when it comes to wars between the two groups in question, but if you think about it (from my Seawolves perspective) since all wars were with internal OPFOR anyway, what is the harm. A person would simply have to pick what side he played on that war.

Well anyway, We are trying our best here to make the structure FIT the players (not the other way around). I know you can never make everyone happy, but we try.

Again, thank you all for your kind words, and I really look forward to having the chance to play with all of you, and maybe get some great online War's going, as I know players love a good war (I do, even if I die fast lol)

Thank you all

FADM Stern GNSF

[Molon Labe]

As for the "membership in more than one group" I can see the issue some have with holding staff spots in more than one place. I have thought about this a lot and basically I see no problem with being a member in more than one place. A person has to decide what he wants to do, and what to play. Now some say that’s fine but what about holding staff spots. Well, does it really matter if a player holds a staff spot in two places? If he does the required work in both spots then how is it hurting either group? Yes, I can see how some would see a possible problem when it comes to wars between the two groups in question, but if you think about it (from my Seawolves perspective) since all wars were with internal OPFOR anyway, what is the harm. A person would simply have to pick what side he played on that war.



FADM Stern GNSF

Yep, that's all it takes. The person on two fleets should inform his/her CoC about his membership in the other fleet, and should pick sides in any war and recuse him/herself from any participation and classified information from the other side. It's that simple.

[sonar732]

All it boils down to is a communication issue. I like how the CADC has a reputation section in their forums. The sad part is we have people who don't care about reputations, and only personal gain. :nope:

[Driftwood]

As for the "membership in more than one group" I can see the issue some have with holding staff spots in more than one place. I have thought about this a lot and basically I see no problem with being a member in more than one place. A person has to decide what he wants to do, and what to play. Now some say that’s fine but what about holding staff spots. Well, does it really matter if a player holds a staff spot in two places? If he does the required work in both spots then how is it hurting either group? Yes, I can see how some would see a possible problem when it comes to wars between the two groups in question, but if you think about it (from my Seawolves perspective) since all wars were with internal OPFOR anyway, what is the harm. A person would simply have to pick what side he played on that war.



<S> It is SO VERY nice serving under enlightened leadership. Well Done Sir! :up:

[Nexus7]

Best wishes to the new Virtual Fleet :up:

Put your efforts in keeping things simple... that's what I'm seeing, and that's in my eyes the key to success :D

Serious training and absence of judjment also, as knowledge leads to victory :arrgh!:

[XabbaRus]

As long as you fleets have time for the lone shark privateers to fight with.

Maybe not for stat matches but other times.

Interfleet wars, I'll be a mercenary out to the highest bidder.

[Driftwood]

As long as you fleets have time for the lone shark privateers to fight with.

Maybe not for stat matches but other times.

Interfleet wars, I'll be a mercenary out to the highest bidder.

I'll take .50 cents worth! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Sorry X, couldn't resist that. :lol: