The "Neutral Ships in Convoy's" Solution.

[Cdre Gibs]

xxxxx

[booger2005]

Or you could be like me-sink the neutral ships and not give one da** about renown :lol:

[Spent]

Or edit the basic.cfg so neutral ships give 0 reknown

[Marhkimov]

Guys, it's has nothing to do with renown.

Neutral ships have a bug where if you shoot at them, their own friends will finish them off. As far as I understand it, Cdre Gibs suggestion should fix that problem.

[Letum]

:( Unless everyone takes up this then we wont be able to have this and our favorite camp mod together

[booger2005]

We all know about the Neutral ships found in Convoys and the resulting problem of what happens when you sink them. As has been stated many times Neutral ships in convoys are by rights fair game, but SH3 says other wise - yes.

Sounds like he's talking about renown to me :-?

[Marhkimov]

Either way, neutral ships have a few bugs associated with them; one being the renown, and the other being the stupid AI shooting at teammates.

[Redwine]

Or edit the basic.cfg so neutral ships give 0 reknown

I made that..... if they are in the convoy shiping goods to the enemy...... they are enemy.

Sink them all !! :rotfl:

[booger2005]

Guys, it's has nothing to do with renown.

Neutral ships have a bug where if you shoot at them, their own friends will finish them off. As far as I understand it, Cdre Gibs suggestion should fix that problem.

I've seen it where if a neutral ship aims at you and hits an allied ship, all the allied ships turn against it, but never this. :-?

Ok, all for it. But why not name the countries something like Norway in Convoy rater than Convoy1, etc. :hmm:

[Marhkimov]

Pardon me for asking, but this is a BIG BIG BIG thing you are suggesting, isn't it?

[GlobalExplorer]

Doesn't sound that hard to implement me.

For every current "Nation" another nation "Nation_Convoy" is needed.

All "Nation_Convoy" should be hostile, even as "Nation" is neutral. Axis of course not.

Wouldn't be the easiest solution be a tool that automatically adds those nations, instead of manually including it in a mod package?

[Marhkimov]

Need new flags, new nations, new scripts... etc etc

[GlobalExplorer]

Ohh an Yes Marhkimov it is a big big thing I suggest, because it needs the campains redone.

This could also be done programmatically. Basically needs to replace all occurences of "American" for "American_Convoy" (if in Convoy). Ctrl-F / Ctrl-H might do already.

[Marhkimov]

Ohh an Yes Marhkimov it is a big big thing I suggest, because it needs the campains redone.

This could also be done programmatically. Basically needs to replace all occurences of "American" for "American_Convoy" (if in Convoy). Ctrl-F / Ctrl-H might do already.
It can be done programmatically, but it also has to be done selectively... Meaning not all of the ships have to be changed.

Meaning someone has to sit there, picking and choosing which ships have to be changed. For thousands of entries, for dozens of nations.

:doh: :doh: :doh:

[Marhkimov]

Who? me? :hmm:

[Marhkimov]

:D :know:

[GlobalExplorer]

Ohh an Yes Marhkimov it is a big big thing I suggest, because it needs the campains redone.

This could also be done programmatically. Basically needs to replace all occurences of "American" for "American_Convoy" (if in Convoy). Ctrl-F / Ctrl-H might do already.
It can be done programmatically, but it also has to be done selectively... Meaning not all of the ships have to be changed.

Meaning someone has to sit there, picking and choosing which ships have to be changed. For thousands of entries, for dozens of nations.

:doh: :doh: :doh:

Hi Marhkimov,

It is pretty easy for a programmer to solve. I am only saying this because I have basically done it. When I am done with parsing the .mis file, I only work with convenient classes like Merchant, Convoy, Taskgroup, etc, which then have their proper Units Collection.

So changing some lines to get the find/replace done is simple.

Hand editing it's a big deal.

Offering a tool that does it for everyone is an even bigger deal :)

[Marhkimov]

Well, I hope all of you programmers figure this out... :yep:

GlobalExplorer... Too bad you weren't part of the SH3 Dev team... Too bad...

[GlobalExplorer]

Well what you sitting here gabbing on to us for, go on, hop it, an get it done !!

(yes I'm being very cheeky) :rotfl:

What are you smoking? :) :|\

If someone wants to replace things from the .mis files selectively, he can contact me. All credit cards accepted.

[Marhkimov]

It's a great idea... Only if it weren't so hard to impliment...

[sergbuto]

IF Serg would allow or redo the Flags.dat and Sflags.dat files the rest can go ahead, but till then its just an idea anyway.

...the flag issue can only be addressed by Serg or some1 else who wants to take a crack at it (least ways I'm not allowed to so I can't).

Why shouldn't I allow expansion of my Flags.dat and FlagS.dat? You can go ahead and do that as long as results of modifications will be available for free and have proper credits.

[sergbuto]

That was bound to the condition "in case you avoid giving appropriate credits".

I'm not sticking my hand out to get it bitten...

Because there was a reason for that. Isn't it?

[sergbuto]

Who cares.

[ref]

Are you two going to keep fighting ? :nope:
Perhaps you can start a new thread for that and keep this for modding. ;)

[Stiebler]

The new NYGM RUb campaign files already have the great majority of neutral ships in convoys (only) changed to the closest Allied alternatives.

I know, because I did it. Mildly tedious, but not excessively difficult ,and no ships have needed to have their flags changed. There are a few omissions, where (for example) a convoy might enter the game in September 1941 and continue being used until September 1943. Such a convoy might still contain an occasional American ships (neutral until December 1941), just to make things interesting for the player.

Stiebler.

[Marhkimov]

Why not just get rid of neutral ships altogether? Just make them all enemies.

The player should be able to use his or her disgression when deciding to attack or not. The blood-thirsty player will end up shooting on sight, whereas the realistic player will respect the rights of Neutrals... Case closed.

[Pablo]

IF Serg would allow or redo the Flags.dat and Sflags.dat files the rest can go ahead, but till then its just an idea anyway.

...the flag issue can only be addressed by Serg or some1 else who wants to take a crack at it (least ways I'm not allowed to so I can't).

Why shouldn't I allow expansion of my Flags.dat and FlagS.dat? You can go ahead and do that as long as results of modifications will be available for free and have proper credits.
Sergbuto,

I would really like to expand your Flags.dat & FlagS.dat - with full credit, of course! :)

My problem is I don't know the file format well enough to know which bits to tweak, where to append, etc. All the currently available tools allow you to swap out flags, but not to append new ones.

Any information or suggestions would be appreciated! :)

Pablo

[ref]

My problem is I don't know the file format well enough to know which bits to tweak, where to append, etc. All the currently available tools allow you to swap out flags, but not to append new ones.

Any information or suggestions would be appreciated! :)

Pablo

By the way, It would be great if all the modders start to make some sort of manual with the discoveries ( I don't know if the term is right, excuse my bad english :oops: ) they make so anybody that follows don't have to "rediscover the wheel", maybe a sticky thread, so the next time someone needs to add a flag (sergbuto, this is not directed to you :up: ), or change a sound value or add a ship, or ...
You see mi point, right?. The credit for the data should be properly documented so nobody feels bad about it ( Really is it so important ?, the advances of the modding Community should be what matters).

Ref

[sergbuto]

My problem is I don't know the file format well enough to know which bits to tweak, where to append, etc. All the currently available tools allow you to swap out flags, but not to append new ones.
DAT file format has been decribed by lurbz on this forum. I do not have the link to the thread in question at hand but you can make a search for his nick. There are no tools which would allow to append new flags. You need to do manual hex-editing of flag.dat and flagS.dat for that.

[Wulfmann]

I must be missing something on this subject?????
All I did was simply change the cfg basic file by deleting the neutral -.(minus)

It was:
NEUTRAL=-1
ALLIED=1
AXIS=-10

I made it:
NEUTRAL=1
ALLIED=1
AXIS=-10

and have never had any problems for months and months. The only time I have have ships hitting other ships is when they are targetting me and another ship gets in their line of fire.

As far as mod files go UBI owns the rights to all modified versions of their copyrighted stuff and the fact they do not impose on our fun does not mean they have given up any of their legal rights.

Wulfmann

[Pablo]

My problem is I don't know the file format well enough to know which bits to tweak, where to append, etc. All the currently available tools allow you to swap out flags, but not to append new ones.
DAT file format has been decribed by lurbz on this forum. I do not have the link to the thread in question at hand but you can make a search for his nick. There are no tools which would allow to append new flags. You need to do manual hex-editing of flag.dat and flagS.dat for that.
Sergbuto,

Thank you very much for the tip - I found the thread by searching for lurbz - and away we go!

Pablo

[Wulfmann]

Ignorance is bliss and I was not aware of all this. Thanks CG for explaining.

Now, if I may ask, why should I care about any of that in my little boat all alone in the Atlantic? If I sink Amerikaneren Schwein schiffs what are they going to do, send hunter killer groups out after me? I have never noticed ill effects and am not sure how some cities I never go to popping up has any bearing on me.
This may be more admitance of ignorance on my part. But, why would any of this concern and affect me?

Wulfmann

[GlobalExplorer]

Now, if I may ask, why should I care about any of that in my little boat all alone in the Atlantic? If I sink Amerikaneren Schwein schiffs what are they going to do, send hunter killer groups out after me? I have never noticed ill effects and am not sure how some cities I never go to popping up has any bearing on me.Wulfmann

"Amerikaneren Schwein schiffs" :rotfl:

As a native german speaker I must say you really made me laugh with this one :)

[Wulfmann]

:cool: That was the point a Merkun stereo type statement.
Besides I don't like looking things up; Mein Deutsch ist nicht so gut, Ich habe ein semester in der Uni Studert!
I have my speech set to German and so talk back in my ignorant speech.
I always call the US ships "Amerikaneren Schwein!!!"

Wulfmann

[GlobalExplorer]

:cool: That was the point a Merkun stereo type statement.
Besides I don't like looking things up; Mein Deutsch ist nicht so gut, Ich habe ein semester in der Uni Studert!
I have my speech set to German and so talk back in my ignorant speech.
I always call the US ships "Amerikaneren Schwein!!!"

Wulfmann

I like it! And can only be coined by a non-german. The mistakes only add to the the hilarity!

[Kpt. Lehmann]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I'm just glad I'm not the only one who does that.

I imagine that my German would be pretty funny for a German to hear.

:ping:

[jasonb885]

...
Ohh an Yes Marhkimov it is a big big thing I suggest, because it needs the campains redone.
....

Not really.

It's already done. I can fix it in about 5 minutes with a new version of IC that uses these nations in convoys instead of the original, sometimes neutral, nations.

The big issue, which I blew two hours on tonight, is editing the flag.dat and flagS.dat files. I don't have the background in hex editing, debuggers, and decompilers and such to succeed in a reasonable period of time. Given it's nearly 6am I think I'm done for tonight.

What's more, sergbuto's already solved this problem as his Nationality Mod v3.0 already includes nearly every nation I need access too, except these duplicate convoy-only entries. It seems silly to re-solve something he's already done.

If anyone knows the magic of flag(S)?.dat I can do the legwork myself without incident.

In either case, I'm on the verge of just making all neutral nations never be neutral, the poor fix, and just leave it at that...

:-?

[Cdre Gibs]

Well I dunno if this is how Serg did it, but me, I'd copy the flag dat files to a temp folder. Then with Pack3D I'd clone it. Then with Hexeditor I'd change the names of all the flags to what I needed. Then I'd copy it all in side the Hexeditor and paste/insert it into the original flag dat files at the end and it should by rights double the flags (after making a backup of course in case it all go's south). Then you should have all the flags you need plus a few extras for "what if's" and all that would be left is to change the flag TGA's to what ever you need.


(I hope :lol: )

[jasonb885]

Well I dunno if this is how Serg did it, but me, I'd copy the flag dat files to a temp folder. Then with Pack3D I'd clone it. Then with Hexeditor I'd change the names of all the flags to what I needed. Then I'd copy it all in side the Hexeditor and paste/insert it into the original flag dat files at the end and it should by rights double the flags (after making a backup of course in case it all go's south). Then you should have all the flags you need plus a few extras for "what if's" and all that would be left is to change the flag TGA's to what ever you need.


(I hope :lol: )

Interesting.

My only concern is Sergbuto mentioned in a different thread, six months ago, that if you wanted to swap in other nations you'd need to choose an existing nation with a name of the same length. I imagine the flag itself would remain unchanged.

I guess I have to actually boot Windows and poke around.

Ah, and copying stuff from the 'clipboard' into a file you're hex editing sounds like a Hex Edit Pro style thing. I wonder if I can do that with khexedit... I guess I really must boot Windows for this.

Sigh.

[jasonb885]

I noticed with Pack3D there's no obvious documentation. I was able to open the flag.dat file and see lots of interest information about what's inside it, but there was no relevant feedback from the application about under what circumstances I can clone or import or how to perform that operation correctly or even what to select for those actions to be successful.

Sadly, I'm totally in the dark.

:(

[Stiebler]

Jasonb885 said:
I noticed with Pack3D there's no obvious documentation.....Sadly, I'm totally in the dark.

The sticky thread for Pack3D in this Mods forum contains practical instructions for use.

I can only agree with you, though, that it might have been helpful to attach some instructions to the package.

Be careful also with the output files. Instead of generating new files, the package duplicates the existing file without altering the file date. So you are going to have to keep a very close check on what you do with the new files, unless you want to spend the rest of your life opening and reopening them in a hex editor to discover which have been modified and which have not. Rename them at once! (What I did, on the one occasion I used Pack3D for real, was to load the new file into a hex editor, then 'save as...' the file to create a new date stamp on the file.)

Stiebler.