Steam??? (with SCS reply)

[JSLTIGER]

OK...so I get home tonight, pop on my laptop at school and get my weekly update from Valve's (you know, the company that put out Half-Life 2) Steam. DW is apparently on pre-order! Is this something that I've missed lurking on these boards over the past few months or is this something new? In any case, it offers the potential to open up the game to a whole new set of buyers.

Additionally, if I'm not dreaming about this, will DW work over Steam if we already own it and have it installed?

[goldorak]

Additionally, if I'm not dreaming about this, will DW work over Steam if we already own it and have it installed?


I hope not, the question is can the steam customers who buy dw play with the rest of us on hyperlobby or gamespy. ?

[Deadeye313]

The idea is for the game to be officially released feb 7th on Steam. Coinciding with this release will be the official patch 1.03. yes, steam players and us will all have the same version so we can all play. I don't know how the LWAMI mod will be affected though.

[Bill Nichols]

This link has been on the Subsim homepage for some time now:

http://steampowered.com/index.php?area=news&id=499

Two From Strategy First On Steam February 7
January 10, 2006, 1:09 pm · Chris Bokitch

Software publisher Strategy First Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of Silverstar Holdings, Ltd. (NASDAQ: SSTR), and Valve Corporation, a leading entertainment and technology studio, are pleased to announce the Steam launch date for Dangerous Waters and Space Empires IV Deluxe.

Steam, Valve’s online platform for digital content distribution and management, offers developers and publishers the chance to offer their creations directly to millions of gamers around the world.

S.C.S - Dangerous Waters™ is a groundbreaking naval simulation game, and will be available via Steam for $39.99. Space Empires IV Deluxe, a grand strategy title in the space 4X (explore, expand, exploit, and exterminate) genre, will also be available via Steam for just $19.99.

Those with an active Steam account will be able to pre-purchase the games beginning January 24 and save 10%.

More titles from Strategy First will be coming to Steam later in 2006. Stay tuned for more details on those releases.

And, this is the link you can use to purchase via Steam:

http://storefront.steampowered.com/v2/index.php?area=game&AppId=1600&

[LuftWolf]

The idea is for the game to be officially released feb 7th on Steam. Coinciding with this release will be the official patch 1.03. yes, steam players and us will all have the same version so we can all play. I don't know how the LWAMI mod will be affected though.

Beats me too.

Unless someone gives us money I'm not planning on making any special accomodation for steam at this point, although that may change once I figure out what exactly steam is and how it works.

But I'd prefer money to knowledge in this matter... :|\

:-j

:rotfl:

[Deadeye313]

well can you at least comment on whether the LWAMI mod will works with 1.03 retail or if you're going to update it for retail 1.03?

I'm surprised you don't know what steam is. It's valve's online system that allows gamers to play all the half-life and half-life 2 multiplayer games and mods, like counterstrike, counterstrike Condition Zero, team fortress and Day of Defeat.

It's very popular and will open this game up to over a million customers. it was a very smart for SCS to offer this game there.

[LuftWolf]

LWAMI 3.00 will be released for 1.03 as soon as the final 1.03 patch is released to the public. :up:

I'm surprised you don't know what steam is. It's valve's online system that allows gamers to play all the half-life and half-life 2 multiplayer games and mods, like counterstrike, counterstrike Condition Zero, team fortress and Day of Defeat.

That's why I don't know what steam is. :)

[JamesT73J]

Steam is mod friendly. I doubt there will be any issues integrating LWAMI with it.

I've got a hunch that over the next six months you're going to see alot of new people into DW.

[goldorak]

Steam is mod friendly. I doubt there will be any issues integrating LWAMI with it.

I've got a hunch that over the next six months you're going to see alot of new people into DW.


No its not, Steam is an invasive centralized system, any mods have to be approved by Valve to be distributed via Steam, the games must have steam running in background and even if you play only single player Steam requires you connect to the internet for authentication otherwise you won't be able to play your games.

Steam customers can do what they want, but I don't want to be obbligated to use a steam client just to play multiplayer or use mods.
That would be completely ridiculous.

[Fandango]

Well,

I hope they'll put a link to the forum here...

[JamesT73J]

Steam is mod friendly. I doubt there will be any issues integrating LWAMI with it.

I've got a hunch that over the next six months you're going to see alot of new people into DW.


No its not, Steam is an invasive centralized system, any mods have to be approved by Valve to be distributed via Steam, the games must have steam running in background and even if you play only single player Steam requires you connect to the internet for authentication otherwise you won't be able to play your games.

Steam customers can do what they want, but I don't want to be obbligated to use a steam client just to play multiplayer or use mods.
That would be completely ridiculous.


Trust me, as someone who has actually used the product that:


- You can mod games.
-You can play offline.
-Steam is no more invasive than any other executable.

Please don't state opinion as fact, when you quite clearly don't know what you're talking about. Steam is a very positive step forward for this title, and the community as a whole. Rather than rambling on about sticking it to the man by not using the system (which is the future, whether you like it or not) you should be supporting it.

Cheers

James

[goldorak]

Trust me, as someone who has actually used the product that:


- You can mod games.


I never said otherwise, I only stated that mods to be delivered by Steam have to be approved by Valve.
The updating of games and that includes mods have to carried through Steam because you can't install patches, mods outside of Steam and thereforce require previous approval by Valve.
Did you even read the terms of service of Steam ?


-You can play offline.


Never said otherwise, I only said that to play your games you have to be authenticated online, then you can play offline if you want.
But after n days if you want to continue to play offline you have to reauthenticate online again.
And if during that moment the Valves authentication servers are offline you're out of luck because you won't be able to play.


-Steam is no more invasive than any other executable.


Not true, just read the terms of service.
I now a lot of people just install software without reading eula, licences, terms of service etc... but you should just to see how much control you are giving away.
I don't like a software to be tied remotely to some server on the other side of the planet and whose software decides when, how, what updates I can and can't install.



Please don't state opinion as fact, when you quite clearly don't know what you're talking about. Steam is a very positive step forward for this title, and the community as a whole. Rather than rambling on about sticking it to the man by not using the system (which is the future, whether you like it or not) you should be supporting it.


I know perfectly well what I'm talking about, using a system doesn't mean you know how the system works or how it impacts on your privacy.
Steam as of now is not a positive system, if it were only an online delivery system then I would agree with you but it is not.
It still is a beta service, has a miriad of problems and I don't appreciate to be a beta customer for Valve.
I won't support Steam at the same level as I don't support publishers who use starforce protection systems.
Online delivery systems are the future (maybe), but Valve's system is not the future.

[JamesT73J]

You can mod titles without drawing the mod files down from steam - you've got full folder access. it's straightforward enough, and is most likely what will happen with LWAMI ,although I suspect valve will place their mod on steam anyway.

The policy on updates is controlled by you. As soon as an update is available, steam will download it - but only if you have it set to do so.


After you've downloaded a game, you can play it offline as long as often as you like. Technically, the only time you even need to connect to steam is to download the product, after that it need never trouble your bandwith again if you so desire. I'll repeat this because it seems to be commonly misunderstood with steam - you do not need to connect to steam AT ALL to play offline, no authentication, nothing.

In terms of problems, I've been using it since 10/04 and I've not had one crash, or one failure to connect, not one.

[Fish]

Any idea what happens when Steam users want to play online with none Steam users? Is that even possible?

[goldorak]

Any idea what happens when Steam users want to play online with none Steam users? Is that even possible?

That's the 100 $ milion dollar question.
Seriously though I hope that Steam users can access without any problems Hyperlobby or Gamespy.
I wonder what happens if a Steam user decides to host.
Do we need a Steam client in order to play with him or not ? :shifty:

[JamesT73J]

I don't know the answer to that, I'd think there'd be no issue with IP connect sessions, there's no reason there should be.

[JSLTIGER]

I was just wondering if those of us who already have DW and already have Steam are going to have a problem, as I know that Steam often requires a decryption of the data. Then again, I suppose it is possible based on my experience with mods that the game will just show up in the Steam client as ready to play.

[Deadeye313]

Fish wrote:
Any idea what happens when Steam users want to play online with none Steam users? Is that even possible?


That's the 100 $ milion dollar question.
Seriously though I hope that Steam users can access without any problems Hyperlobby or Gamespy.
I wonder what happens if a Steam user decides to host.
Do we need a Steam client in order to play with him or not ?

well the $50 million question for me is: can modded people play with non-modded people or are we going to have to have 2 seperate installs of Dangerous waters? Also, will the 3.00 mod be popular enough that this won't be an issue. AS it is now, I find many of the ppl who host games through Hyperlobby don't have the mod. However, I can still play. Will this continue after steam?

if I have to make 2 seperate downloads, is there a way to make 2 catagories for steam? meaning have one game say LWAMI DW and another say regular DW so I play with both parties? Will steam even allow a connection to be made when the host and client databases are different?

Another question is that DW is a IP game. How will servers work? will we go online, host and just wait in the lobby till someone joins or what?

[goldorak]

well the $50 million question for me is: can modded people play with non-modded people or are we going to have to have 2 seperate installs of Dangerous waters? Also, will the 3.00 mod be popular enough that this won't be an issue. AS it is now, I find many of the ppl who host games through Hyperlobby don't have the mod. However, I can still play. Will this continue after steam?

if I have to make 2 seperate downloads, is there a way to make 2 catagories for steam? meaning have one game say LWAMI DW and another say regular DW so I play with both parties? Will steam even allow a connection to be made when the host and client databases are different?

Another question is that DW is a IP game. How will servers work? will we go online, host and just wait in the lobby till someone joins or what?

Well the situation right now is that steam notwithstanding all the players need to have the same files (dll and database) to play one against the other.
You can't play if you and your antagonist have different databases.
With doctrines the story is different because the players use the doctrine files of the host so it is irrelevant wether you have the same files as the host.

[Three14]

Man, potential problems aside, if it were up 24 hours ago I would have paid and DL'ed. I'm a big fan of Sonalysts games, but I've been in China or overwhelmed with work. I have free time for a week, though, and last night I was feeling weak.

Feb 7th, though...maybe a week too late. I'll be swamped by then.

[goldorak]

Man, potential problems aside, if it were up 24 hours ago I would have paid and DL'ed. I'm a big fan of Sonalysts games, but I've been in China or overwhelmed with work. I have free time for a week, though, and last night I was feeling weak.

Feb 7th, though...maybe a week too late. I'll be swamped by then.


I'll ask you a question, the game costs 40$ on steam and all you get is the electronic download.
The retail version costs 40$ and you get 2 physical cd's and a box.

Honestly I wonder who is going to buy the steam version ?
Pay the same as retail and get less ? :nope:

[Three14]

Two CDs and a box? I'll survive :) I'm in Hong Kong now, and it's significantly cheaper and much faster by Steam. If I get it I know it'll be very much an impulse purchase, as there a lots of good reasons not to get back in the water. I just more vulnerable through Steam.

I guess I also feel generally comfortable with Sonalysts not leaving me "stuck" if Steam doesn't work out, and I half expect some of the freeware mods to be available, saving me some of the hassle and also making it more likely that other people will be playing with the same game.

[JamesT73J]

Well I plan to make my own backup CD's using steam's facility and then I'm going to get my crayons and an old cornflakes packet and make my own DW box :-j

[goldorak]

Well I plan to make my own backup CD's using steam's facility and then I'm going to get my crayons and an old cornflakes packet and make my own DW box :-j


So you prefer to spend 40 $ plus the cd's + crayons + time to build the box and paint it instead of spending 40$ for the retail version.
I will never understand this line of reasoning.

[Three14]

Cornflakes? $3
Crayons? $2
A weekend afternoon unleashing your inner naval artist?

Well...you know.

The economics are EASY!

$40 vs. PRICELESS.

PRICELESS!

That's a lot!

[XabbaRus]

goldorack I think you are scaremongering.

Unmodded and modded players of DW CANNOT play together even now.

So yes you would need two installs.

As for non steam and steam versions. Well if retail, BF copies and steam copies are all at 1.03 then they can play together.

it is the exe and database that stop people from 1.01 and 1.02 from playing with each other. I doubt that retail and steam versions will stop being able to play with each other because one has steam and the other doesn't. Non-sensical and SCS aren't stupid. Steam is just another way to get the game out and increase the customer base.

If you really want answers then ask Jamie directly. He will answer.

[Jamie]

Sorry guys, I've been out of the office today with a cold, but I will try to answer these questions quickly (let me know if I missed any):

1) Retail customers play on Steam?
Yes. If you own the retail (v1.02) or Battlefront (v1.00) versions you will be able to download DW on Steam at no extra cost. You obviously need a Steam account and one of the CDs in your drive, but it's not that difficult.

2) Modding on Steam
The files are extracted from the Steam archive with the EXE (and a few other files) encrypted so that you cannot copy DW from one computer to another and play without paying for it. We control which files must be identical to the archives on Steam (i.e. which files will be overwritten whenever Steam starts up) and these will not include the 3D group, Graphics groups, Doctrines, Database, etc... It will simply be the game EXE and the DLLs most likely.

3) Multiplayer - Steam (v1.03) and Retail (v1.03)
This is precisely why the v1.03 patch is taking so bl00dy long, guys! We want the v1.03 EXE to have all functionality in it for Steam whether you are using Steam or are just a Retail customer waiting for the patch (in which case that Steam functionality will not affect you). With IDENTICAL checksums on the important files, we ensure that ALL customers will be able to play DW together on Gamespy, Hyperlobby, and just normal MP play. This was a very important detail we considered when going with Steam and Valve has been very helpful in implementing it.

4) Price on Steam
The initial price is $36 (10% discount) and you're right it's probably not terribly competitive with the Retail version, but the Steam version will be able for sale for YEARS TO COME while the Retail version will fade from the shelves fairly quickly (as do all retail games). I'm sure the price will adjust over time, so clearly if you would like to wait for that adjustment to happen before buying you are entitled to do so, obviously (you are the consumer after all :)).

5) MP Matchmaking on Steam
There isn't any support for this at the moment, but we will investigate it for the next update on Steam. We have been told that it's not terribly difficult to implement if we already support command-line arguments, which we do for Gamespy Arcade and Hyperlobby.


Hope that clears things up, I need a nap. ;)

[JamesT73J]

Jamie,

This is good news. This sounds like it's been planned well.

Cheers

James

[JSLTIGER]

Jamie,

This is awesome! Glad to hear it!

[Winston]

1) Retail customers play on Steam?
Yes. If you own the retail (v1.02) or Battlefront (v1.00) versions you will be able to download DW on Steam at no extra cost. You obviously need a Steam account and one of the CDs in your drive, but it's not that difficult.

That’s very good news for me. This has been a question that has lingered long in my mind. And thank you Jamie, for explaining things. Not sure if I should tell you this but I was thinking off buying a second copy over steam, just in case. :) I do however still have some questions. I’m the kind of guy who likes to have every thing ready to go and all sorted so that when Dangerous Waters is out on steam all I have to do is decrypt the files and start playing. Now that the pre-load is available is it possible at this time to download the files free of charge using my v1.0 cd and if so, how?

I had a go at it already. I tried putting my cd in and loading up steam but I was only getting the option to pay the $35.95 and pre-load it. How do I get steam to recognise I own Dangerous Waters and integrate it in to steam?

p.s. Hope the nap did you good.

[Jamie]

Hey Winston,

Well you are free to buy another copy of DW on Steam if you'd like! ;) (nah, I'd feel guilty about that... well, only a little)

I had a go at it already. I tried putting my cd in and loading up steam but I was only getting the option to pay the $35.95 and pre-load it. How do I get steam to recognise I own Dangerous Waters and integrate it in to steam?

Oops, sorry :oops: ... I should have mentioned that this functionality will not be available until February 7th when DW goes live on Steam.

Thanks!

[Winston]

Hehe, thanks for the information Jamie. Will wait until the 7th, then I’ll try again.

[Deadeye313]

we won't have to do a clean install to patch up will we? I noticed one of the previous ones (either the beta or one of them) said you should upgrade from v1.00. tell me this will just be a regular patch.

[SmithN23]

2) Modding on Steam
The files are extracted from the Steam archive with the EXE (and a few other files) encrypted so that you cannot copy DW from one computer to another and play without paying for it. We control which files must be identical to the archives on Steam (i.e. which files will be overwritten whenever Steam starts up) and these will not include the 3D group, Graphics groups, Doctrines, Database, etc... It will simply be the game EXE and the DLLs most likely.


I have DW installed on my laptop (for use at school) and I also have it on my desktop at home, will steam complain if I have it on two computers?

I think that this game is great and I hope that steam brings it much more attention from the steam community. Thanks.

[goldorak]

I have DW installed on my laptop (for use at school) and I also have it on my desktop at home, will steam complain if I have it on two computers?

I think that this game is great and I hope that steam brings it much more attention from the steam community. Thanks.

It probably won't complain if you don't use both computers with dw at the same time.

[Wim Libaers]

Sorry guys, I've been out of the office today with a cold, but I will try to answer these questions quickly (let me know if I missed any):

1) Retail customers play on Steam?
Yes. If you own the retail (v1.02) or Battlefront (v1.00) versions you will be able to download DW on Steam at no extra cost. You obviously need a Steam account and one of the CDs in your drive, but it's not that difficult.


Question: why would we want to do that, considering that the standalone version works, and Steam MP matches are not supported yet? Is there any reason I'm missing that explains why this would be useful?

[JSLTIGER]

It won't be useful until the Steam version goes live. Then you can use Steam to play with the (hopefully) masses that buy the game through Steam.

[goldorak]

It won't be useful until the Steam version goes live. Then you can use Steam to play with the (hopefully) masses that buy the game through Steam.


I was under the impression we could play with the steam players without having to install a steam client.
I'm talking about those of us who bought the retail version (strategy first or battlefront version).
Did I misunderstood what Jamie said ? :hmm:

[JSLTIGER]

No...you didn't. I think I misunderstood what you meant. You will be able to play with them without Steam, although it's not a bad application.

P.S. I bought the Battlefront version. :up:

[sbarnes]

I have DW on steam.
Could anyone please tell me where to unzip my custom missions please?
This is all very confusing for me!
Thanks!
Steve

[sbarnes]

Found the answer - in case any else searches:

program files / steam / steam apps / common /

Thanks anyway!

[OneShot]

Just search for the folder where STEAM put your Dangerous Waters ... in there you should find a subdirectory labeled "Scenarios" ... thats where the mission files and if necessary any audio files (which come with the mission) go.

Btw. as commendable as it is to search for a more or less relevant thread - reviving the dead is sometimes not the way to go ...