Got my first kill!

[WargamerScott]

Okay, I managed to put a few hours into DW and I am starting to make some progress. First, I did the Seawolf demo mission where your whole crew is sick and you need to get back to base ASAP. This was a piece of cake, especially if you are used to maneuvering with the Seawolf from SC. No problem.

Then I did the FFG demo called Dirty Atoll. This one proved more difficult than I first expected. Maneuvering the ship so close to land was instructive in itself---a FFG handles like a pig compared to a SSN. Now I understand why bridge crews always appear so tense when they are docking the ship! It must be like dancing with an elephant! Well, after three tries, I finally did manage to reach both waypoints without grounding my ship. :) However, once the mission changed to getting the terrorists---well, that one has bested me so far. The FFG is a very complex platform and I think I need to wait for my printed manual to arrive before I can properly decipher all the weapons and sensors. I put that one on hold for now.

My last mission was the MH-60 demo where you hunt the Victor III. That was fun! It was a perfect scenario to teach you about using the various sonobuoys. I am proud to say that after a 2 hour search, I nailed the sub with a Mk 50! :rock: Boy that was fun and very realistic! The sub almost got away because, at first, I didn't understand how to read the buoy contact info. Each buoy seemed to be detecting a sub on a different portion of the map. It confused me...until I noticed that all the bearing lines were intersecting in one general area. Bingo! Triangulation at work! I dropped my MAD gear and made a lucky pass over the sub. Then a dropped a few DICASS buoys (accidentally scuttling two :oops: ) and with an active search using my dipping sonar---bingo! I had bearing and range (which I determined without crew help!). The rest, as they say, is history. :D

Great game! This might actually pull me away from SH3 for a few days.

[Apocal]

http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/8734/huntinsubs6ns.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Congrats.

[drEaPer]

when playing your first multiplayer game, preprare for man-portable infra-red guided shoulder-launched Surface-To-Air
missile (SAM), that will blow you out of the sky
*g*

[Bill Nichols]

Congrats on your first kill!
Be sure to check my site for tutorials and other goodies :|\

[Wildcat]

The FFG seems very daunting at first, but I just started playing DW a few days ago (Though I played SC for a long time before) and I have a very good grasp of the systems.

Actually you will be very thankful you have so much available to you on the ship, you're really able to do a lot. And you can sure make life difficult for submarines if you have 2 helos aboard, and if you have a P3 in the area you can be a real danger.

Make sure to learn how to use the towed array of the FFG and then learn TMA afterward. The mission "Seikan Tunnel" is an excellent way to learn all of the systems of the FFG, including CIWS and the SM2 missile, I was once shot at with a missile in the seikan tunnel mission :o

Learning the TA in the FFG is probably the most or second most important thing you can do. In the seikan tunnel mission you can learn about the various depths the towed array can be set to which will either drag the array on the ground, or put it at a deep enough level to get the best contact detection, etc. There are enough surface ships around to make it challenging. You'll have to learn to use your contact list in the sonar suite (look at the signal to noise ratio) to see which contacts are possubs and which are trawlers or other large ships. And you'll need to learn about the LOFAR (narrowband) to make sure you're not shooting the Harushio Japanese sub by accident, or a trawler. You'll also be given the opportunity to use your active sonar or high frequency sonar to detect and mark contacts in the water at close range.

The other thing you need to learn about is using the helo, but to be honest it's extremely simple, press F3, set green deck, click the "ship" link button and figure the rest out yourself.

Learning how to operate the GRAMS and deciding when it's best to use OTS buoys vs heli buoys is another important thing. A good mission for learning these is the spratley island resupply mission. That mission will also teach you about radar, SM2 and CIWS.

[Angle]

I really like the "seikan tunnel" mission for practice also. The enemy has a random start position.

[MaHuJa]

I was once shot at with a missile in the seikan tunnel mission :o


This is a bug in the (modified?) doctrines, I think. Or perhaps a feature gone wrong?

Thing is, if you're not identified as friendly, and you ping (or launch in their general direction, even if it would miss widely), the AI tends to assume you're hostile (ping -> preparing to launch a torpedo at them - makes a bit more sense against subs, at that), and try to get ahead of you by launching first.

Doesn't tend to happen if you're constantly pinging I think...


Either way, this creates a lot of blue-on-blue situations.

[WargamerScott]

when playing your first multiplayer game, preprare for man-portable infra-red guided shoulder-launched Surface-To-Air
missile (SAM), that will blow you out of the sky
*g*

I admit I was concerned about the computer pulling that on me.

BTW: how active is the online community? Is it easy to find an opponent?

[WargamerScott]

Congrats on your first kill!
Be sure to check my site for tutorials and other goodies :|\

Already have----GREAT site! :up: I can't wait to try the RSR campaign (now that I am re-reading the book for a 9th time!!!).

[WargamerScott]

The FFG seems very daunting at first, but I just started playing DW a few days ago (Though I played SC for a long time before) and I have a very good grasp of the systems....

Make sure to learn how to use the towed array of the FFG and then learn TMA afterward. The mission "Seikan Tunnel" is an excellent way to learn all of the systems of the FFG, including CIWS and the SM2 missile, I was once shot at with a missile in the seikan tunnel mission :o


The other thing you need to learn about is using the helo, but to be honest it's extremely simple, press F3, set green deck, click the "ship" link button and figure the rest out yourself.


I am making TMA the last thing I learn. I tried to understand that in SC but it just drove me crazy. The AI crew seems to do good enough on its own, so I am not in a rush.

How well does the AI handle helo ops? Do I always need to micro-manage helo operations?

[WargamerScott]

Update: I finished two more scenarios. I did the Kilo demo. That was pretty decent. The Kilo seems to be a straight-forward sub. The only problem I had was when I launched two 53-65 torps---for some strange reason they just disappeared! They were running normal and then---poof!---disappeared from the map. Bug?

Now I am doing the P-3 demo when you hunt an Akula. I killed one, but I know there is at least one more out there. I hope I am more lucky with this one as it took 4 torps to kill the first (it takes practice to drop the torp on target---I kept over-shooting from a late release).

Q: Are all hits a "kill"? Or are enemy targets sometimes damaged too?

Q2: I see that the P-3 had FLIR. Is it any good when hunting a sub? I would expect not---unless the sub is snorkeling.

Q3: Is there a screenshot key? I would like to memorialize my victories! :D

[OneShot]

Q: Are all hits a "kill"? Or are enemy targets sometimes damaged too?

Q2: I see that the P-3 had FLIR. Is it any good when hunting a sub? I would expect not---unless the sub is snorkeling.

Q3: Is there a screenshot key? I would like to memorialize my victories!

1.) Depends on the targets size - for subs usually one hit = kill.

2.) Its good for hunting subs in real life (catching them snorkeling ..) in the game tho it's not and subs cant be seen unless they actually breach the surface. Funny enough you can see Active Shallow Counter Measures from subs with it.

3.)POS1 (German layout) / HOME (US Layout).

P.S. : There are only two Demo missions, Kilo & Helo ... :hmm:


Cheers
OS

[Bill Nichols]

Update: I finished two more scenarios. I did the Kilo demo. That was pretty decent. The Kilo seems to be a straight-forward sub. The only problem I had was when I launched two 53-65 torps---for some strange reason they just disappeared! They were running normal and then---poof!---disappeared from the map. Bug?

:D

I'm guessing they hit the sea bottom. You always need to take care that the 'floor' setting is shallower than the bottom... the AI weapons officer isn't smart enough to do that on his own :-?

[Wim Libaers]

Or they might have reached maximum range. They don't stop and sink when that happens, they just stop existing in the game world.

[WargamerScott]

P.S. : There are only two Demo missions, Kilo & Helo ... :hmm:
Cheers
OS

Right. The P-3 Demo is actually called SOSUS Handover. Seemed like a demo to me! LOL!

[drEaPer]

BTW: how active is the online community? Is it easy to find an opponent?

They are pretty active, but due to the way the game plays (setting up takes long, playing takes even longer) people usually make appointments beforehand. Via ICQ or forum.
Though you can always try gamespy, and see if someone is around.




Q: Are all hits a "kill"? Or are enemy targets sometimes damaged too?


Ususally a hit means you gonna drown.
Nevertheless I had some situations where the torpedo didnt kill me.
I remember being at surface when I survived a torpedo hit inside a Seawolf. I emergancy blowed to avoid the torp, but it still got me, yet I didnt die. So maybe the game also takes water pressure into account. Havent survived a torp while submerged so far.

[LuftWolf]

Partial damage is modelled for subs as well as surface platforms.

This can happen when you get hit by a weapon whose power does not exceed ownship damage capacity, or if the blast is some distance away from the ship.

How common an occurance this is can be controlled in the database, but it should be fairly rare, since a damaged sub is almost as good as dead in terms of playables.

In the LWAMI Mod, some torpedoes have very light warheads to simulate either very light torpedoes are ones known to proximity fuse so these will cause this to happen, and the Oscars and Typhoons have also been beefed up to require multiple LWT hits to completely take out. This is kind of an approximation. No one who can talk really knows what happens when a half a cubic foot of high explosive impacts an object that weights 15000ton or more under 300m of ocean. :hmm:

My gut tells me that even a double hulled russian missile boat is toast from a LWT at 300m, but something also tells me that it might be possible to sustain such a hit. We kept things simple by keeping all playable subs killable with a single playable torpedo, except for the Chinese SET torpedo, but then again who is going to kill anything with a 29kts torpedo? ;)

[WargamerScott]

Interesting. I imagine the same holds true for enemy AI subs? I ask because in the SOSUS Handover mission, my Mk50 hit the Akula and I received a radio message that the Russians had reported a damaged sub. The animation for the sub showed it slowly sliding to the bottom stern first (it eventually came to rest on the bottom). I was curious if that was because I didn't get a destructive kill, but a fatal damage hit.

[TLAM Strike]

We kept things simple by keeping all playable subs killable with a single playable torpedo, except for the Chinese SET torpedo, but then again who is going to kill anything with a 29kts torpedo? ;) That a challange? I nearly had a "manuver kill" (forced target to exceed crush depth in this case) against a SW back in 1.01 Stock using the 40 knots TEST-71 PLAN verson, speed dosn't matter. At least the SW lost both of its Towed arrays. This was the (in)famous 3 SSNs Vs. Kilo (me) and Akula mission where I dodged about two dozen torpedoes and lived (I even used the "Ramius Manuver" against a spread of 8 MK 48s).

[LuftWolf]

A SET man a SET!!! :cool:

Good story though. :|\

:rotfl:

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

That a challange? I nearly had a "manuver kill" (forced target to exceed crush depth in this case) against a SW back in 1.01 Stock using the 40 knots TEST-71 PLAN verson, speed dosn't matter. At least the SW lost both of its Towed arrays. This was the (in)famous 3 SSNs Vs. Kilo (me) and Akula mission where I dodged about two dozen torpedoes and lived (I even used the "Ramius Manuver" against a spread of 8 MK 48s).

From the fact you knew they lost both towed arrays, it was a real sub and not a AI one. Maneuvering error by a newbie perhaps? In theory, if you do everything right, a 40kn torp has almost no valid DLZ against a 40kn boat and IIRC Seawolf had a 600m max depth which is higher than the TEST-71 in the game. Tell me more. I might be able to put it in my back pocket for one day...

Ramius maneuver? Charge at the torps? Are you more lucky than good - they set the RTE too high?

[Apocal]

From the fact you knew they lost both towed arrays, it was a real sub and not a AI one. Maneuvering error by a newbie perhaps? In theory, if you do everything right, a 40kn torp has almost no valid DLZ against a 40kn boat and IIRC Seawolf had a 600m max depth which is higher than the TEST-71 in the game. Tell me more. I might be able to put it in my back pocket for one day...

Ramius maneuver? Charge at the torps? Are you more lucky than good - they set the RTE too high?

1. DLZ?

2. Might he mean having run very close to a piece of terrain, deployed a noisemaker and turned away at the last second as the "Ramius Manuever"?

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

1. DLZ?

Oh sorry, borrowed the term "Dynamic Launch Zone" from the Air Force in AAM employment - a similar concept. Effective weapon range depends on speed of weapon and target*. If you have a 29kn torp (or even 36knot) chasing a 35kn target, you have virtually no DLZ - the target can simply turn and run and you will never reach him. That little bit of DLZ represents the part where he has to turn and accelerate.

*as well as altitude. Not so important underwater, but in real life IIRC torpedo performance varies a bit depending on its running depth too.

2. Might he mean having run very close to a piece of terrain, deployed a noisemaker and turned away at the last second as the "Ramius Manuever"?

Could be, but I prefer the book Ramius.

[Apocal]

1. DLZ?

Oh sorry, borrowed the term "Dynamic Launch Zone" from the Air Force in AAM employment - a similar concept. Effective weapon range depends on speed of weapon and target*. If you have a 29kn torp (or even 36knot) chasing a 35kn target, you have virtually no DLZ - the target can simply turn and run and you will never reach him. That little bit of DLZ represents the part where he has to turn and accelerate.

*as well as altitude. Not so important underwater, but in real life IIRC torpedo performance varies a bit depending on its running depth too.

Ah I see. I'm familiar with the concept as I'm a AAW guy, but I always known it as a "No-escape zone" (NEZ). I have no idea what bubbleheads call it.


Could be, but I prefer the book Ramius.

As do I. Taking one for freedom is way more cool than shaking off both torps.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

A SET man a SET!!! :cool:

Good story though. :|\

:rotfl:

Hey LuftWolf. Think it might be better to do a LWAMI mod exchanging the SET-53 (which is worse than useless) with a "Yu-5" torpedo for the Kilo? Chinese (printed in Hong Kong) sources would claim that such a torp came into service with Song-class, and even if it doesn't, such a torp as a hypothetical would be an equalizer. As it is, I might as well carry 53-65K torps even in ASW - the thing is that useless.

You've given the Americans a new Mk54 and the Russians got to exchange the "Type 53" for a UGST, so maybe it is time to give the Chinese a turn...

It supposedly has a range of 30km, speed 50 knots, max depth 400m, wire guidance, 200kg warhead. I suppose you can use your UGST as a template. Make it available on all six tubes of the Kilo, but only 5 and 6 have the facility to do wire guidance.

Just a thought...

[LuftWolf]

That's actually a pretty darn good idea. :up: :know:

I'll look at it. Changing the parameters of the Set-53 to match another more effective torpedo is pretty easy, although I might not be able to make it wireguided.

So at worst, I can make the Set-53 more like a USET-80, which I think would work fine as well.

Thanks for the idea! :rock: :arrgh!:

[Ptroinks]

Could someone please guide me through the Seikan Tunnel mission? I really need some help on that one. I've tried it a couple of times now, but I just can't see that d*mn midget sub! I ping and I drop buoys, but even if I have "show truth" (or whatever it's called) turned on and know where to look, I can't find it on my sonar screen(s). Please help!

EDIT: OK, I'm a little further down the road now ;). I managed to find it with the help of show truth (at least I found it...). Now another question: When I have a contact, how do I determine if it's a surfaced or submerged one?

[OneShot]

Look out of the window (Pilot/ATO) or turn on Radar (both for Helo) or for the P3, look out of the Pilot window, turn on radar or use the camera.

Cheers
OS

[Scion]

or use the camera.
I find the auto-track option on the camera for an Active Sonar Return for this exact purpose. It works wonders.

[Ptroinks]

Is that realistic? Do you really have to send a chopper out to know if the contact is a ship or a (submerged) sub?

[Fandango]

Is that realistic? Do you really have to send a chopper out to know if the contact is a ship or a (submerged) sub?

Well, to use your eyes seems quite realistic to me... ;)

[Ptroinks]

I just thought technology was available to tell if a contact was on the surface or under it...