View Full Version : A topic over at SimHQ: "new ships"!!
Paajtor
12-21-05, 03:42 PM
For a few days now, this has been up at the SH3 section (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=129;t=001481) of SimHQ:
http://www.combatplanes.ca/sh3/newships.gif
It took quite a while, before someone bothered to post a reply.
Even our own TeddyBär seems to ignore the topic.
What's up with this?
I just returned to SH3, so I might have missed something.
Anyone knows this guy, Combat99?
Is it maybe some payware addon for SH3? I know there have been problems with 3rd-party commercial addons for SH3, since it was released.
Marhkimov
12-21-05, 03:45 PM
My question is... WHY THE HELL WOULD ANYONE IGNORE THIS THREAD?!?!?!?!
Someone, move this to the mod shop immediately!!!
And repost those pictures over here!!! :yep: :yep:
Gizzmoe
12-21-05, 03:51 PM
Someone, move this to the mod shop immediately!!!
Yes, Sir! Topic moved, Sir!
Paajtor
12-21-05, 03:54 PM
http://www.combatplanes.ca/sh3/three-1.jpg
http://www.combatplanes.ca/sh3/three-2.jpg
http://www.combatplanes.ca/sh3/three-3.jpg
http://www.combatplanes.ca/sh3/three-4.jpg
http://www.combatplanes.ca/sh3/three-5.jpg
http://www.combatplanes.ca/sh3/three-6.jpg
irishred
12-21-05, 03:56 PM
Are they going to be free?
Gizzmoe
12-21-05, 03:58 PM
That´s extremely unlikely.
Paajtor
12-21-05, 04:01 PM
Yes, think so too.
We've had more success in breaking down the code.. list of coming ships..
This usually means they are hacking into the game's code, and if they won't release it as a free mod, then they need permission from several parties.
Who is Len Hjalmarson, Nico?
Don't tell me he works at X1 (as in your sig).
Marhkimov
12-21-05, 04:04 PM
unfree mods... what a bummer... :nope:
Who is Len Hjalmarson, Nico?
Don't tell me he works at X1 (as in your sig).
Yup!
sergbuto
12-21-05, 04:05 PM
Are they going to be free?
That´s extremely unlikely.
In that case I shall wonder what is my Southampton is doing in there. I did not give my permission to use it for a commercial product.
Who is Len Hjalmarson, Nico?
Don't tell me he works at X1 (as in your sig).
Yep, he's the guy behind that addon :-?
***
But I don't see why the fuss. That ain't much of a breakthrough. People like Sansal and Sergbuto have figured this out a while ago already. And it doesn't involve any of the game code, either, just data.
Marhkimov
12-21-05, 04:07 PM
Before you get too far, perhaps that is not your southampton...
Paajtor
12-21-05, 04:08 PM
So I guess that's why he didn't bother to post overhere at SubSim... :lol:
He posted once before, at SimHQ.
A few weeks ago, there was a topic called "coming soon...", and it showed just a few ships.
I replied, and asked "coming where", and he said "stay tuned".
That topic has been removed - either by himself, or by a SimHQ-moderator.
Marhkimov
12-21-05, 04:09 PM
LOL, I'm just excited about new warships, that's all... We've been waiting forever for some Italian warships...
And THERE they are!!! :huh: :D
When Hjalamrson releases stuff it's generally payware. In this particular case it's either a hoax (like the advertised Gato class sub) or simply stolen!
sergbuto
12-21-05, 04:09 PM
Before you get too far, perhaps that is not your southampton...
Ye, right. Like I can't recognize what I did.
Marhkimov
12-21-05, 04:10 PM
but all you did was simply clone the fiji class cruiser, and made a few changes...
Any clone modder could have done that...
How can you be so sure that "they" used your exact ship?
sergbuto
12-21-05, 04:12 PM
but all you did was simply clone the fiji class cruiser, and made a few changes...
Any clone modder could have done that...
Then I suggest you compare them (Southampton and Fiji) in detail.
but all you did was simply clone the fiji class cruiser, and made a few changes...
Any clone modder could have done that...
Yeah, that's true! Especially as Hjalmarson has proven already that he's quite good in cloning stuff! :rotfl:
Marhkimov
12-21-05, 04:14 PM
but all you did was simply clone the fiji class cruiser, and made a few changes...
Any clone modder could have done that...
Then I suggest you compare them (Southampton and Fiji) in detail.
I did. Many times in the museum, I flipped back and forth between Fiji and Southampton, and only noticed the rearward angled funnels and removed walrus.
I'm just saying that it could be pure coincidence, that someone else ALSO could have made their own clone of the Southampton...
The Kent looks like cr0p, just an Admiral Hipper with a couple of extra stacks. :dead: (Darn no puke smilie).
Marhkimov
12-21-05, 04:24 PM
The Kent looks like cr0p, just an Admiral Hipper with a couple of extra stacks. :dead: (Darn no puke smilie).
True, but we don't have a Hipper with 3 'stacks yet... :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
sergbuto
12-21-05, 04:25 PM
I did. Many times in the museum, I flipped back and forth between Fiji and Southampton, and only noticed the rearward angled funnels and removed walrus.
That is not it. Take screenies and compare.
Maybe, I should have licenced Southampton to Hjalamrson when he asked about that and should not have kept it available for free. Certainly I may think about that when I will make real Italian ships and not the reshuffled stuff from the pecies available in SH3.
Marhkimov
12-21-05, 04:26 PM
Why would you team up with that guy??? :huh:
That is not it. Take screenies and compare.
Maybe, I should have licenced Southampton to Hjalamrson when he asked about that and not to keep it available for free. Certainly I may think about that when I will make real Italian ships and not the reshuffled stuff from the pecies available in SH3.
Being a modeller myself, I'd recommend that you "watermark" your stuff by adding small errors deliberately or add small, barely noticeable, ahistorical details to your models.
Marhkimov
12-21-05, 04:31 PM
Yes, but why do you guys care about marking your work?
Isn't it enough to be satisfied that you made something, for the pleasure and benefit of others?
I'm not a modeller, but I've made plenty of texture mods myself. And for all I care, you can go ahead and steal my work. You can even take the credit for it. I have no worries about that.
Because I know in my heart that I benefited the community... And any JERK who decides to steal my work and claim it as his own... Well, that's HIS problem, not mine...
Yes, but why do you guys care about marking your work?
Isn't it enough to be satisfied that you made something, for the pleasure and benefit of others?
I'm not a modeller, but I've made plenty of texture mods myself. And for all I care, you can go ahead and steal my work. You can even take the credit for it. I have no worries about that.
Because I know in my heart that I benefited the community... And any JERK who decides to steal my work and claim it as his own... Well, that's HIS problem, not mine...
So you do all the work for free while this guy sells your stuff for profit? His profit, of course! That's called (commercial) software piracy.
Marhkimov
12-21-05, 04:37 PM
I'm cool with it... I wonder if his conscience is?
I'm cool with it... I wonder if his conscience is?
As long as they get the money, they don´t care. :roll:
Duke of Earl
12-21-05, 05:16 PM
I'm not in for any 'parasite-for-profit-ware'.. and this stuff looks pretty cheap too... same fundamental 3D model that was probably cloned and then slightly altered in the superstructure several different ways and given a new name... no originality in hull structure and I doubt that they're very authentic either...
This smacks of another X1 scandal... so, I'll just pass on by and watch this one fade out in my wake...
Cordialement, Duke of Earl
snowsub
12-21-05, 05:58 PM
Why not just take his models after he's released them and distribute for free, if he stole then and did changes he carn't really complain now can he?
That way while he's trying to rip of you, your undermining/ripping of him.
:shifty:
Why not just take his models after he's released them and distribute for free, if he stole then and did changes he carn't really complain now can he?
That way while he's trying to rip of you, your undermining/ripping of him.
:shifty:
If the models arent copyrighted, they can take them and say they are made by them and copyright them, right? So if, we take the models from the product and share them around the internet, that´s copyright violation?
Correct me, if I´m wrong. :)
snowsub
12-21-05, 06:13 PM
But do you think they'd take it to court?
I'm willing to bet that if sergbuto/ag124/iambecomelife etc made a model and someone took it and copyrighted it without their consent and lawyers would have a field day if it got to court, they'd be lots of prescidents on both sides, remember it's not the law perse you have to convince, it's the Judge.
I just don't think it'd be a fight worth fighting for both sides.
Anyway someone from a country not with an agreement with the US could easily do it, say an Iranian :rotfl:
All this is assuming of course someones stolen someone elses work, which may not be the case
Type941
12-21-05, 06:16 PM
Ah... I'm sorry, there is no way (as an educated consumer) would I pay for a remodelled ship that's already in the game. What are they thinking... :doh: :dead:
Who are the idiots, excuse my french, buying this X1 stuff? I haven't seen one person here doing it... :-?
Ah... I'm sorry, there is no way (as an educated consumer) would I pay for a remodelled ship that's already in the game. What are they thinking... :doh: :dead:
Who are the idiots, excuse my french, buying this X1 stuff? I haven't seen one person here doing it... :-?
But the players who doesnt either have internet or dont browse these forums, think that it´s a something totally new and professional expansion pack and they´ll buy it.
That´s the main thing that pisses me off in this whole X1 thing! :damn:
Type941
12-21-05, 06:50 PM
I think the perentage of Sh3 players without internet is so damn small, that it's not important to focus on that. However, those who don't follow the forums might fall into trap. But still, 2 years ago mods were something still new, but these days gaming sites and mags give out awards for the mods, so I hope the knowledge spreads. Those guys with their 'code hacking' and stealing serg's cruiser should not get a cent for that 'work' they do. :down:
Paajtor
12-21-05, 07:19 PM
Why not just take his models after he's released them and distribute for free, if he stole then and did changes he carn't really complain now can he?
That way while he's trying to rip of you, your undermining/ripping of him.
:shifty:
Exactly my thoughts too. :D
If the models arent copyrighted, they can take them and say they are made by them and copyright them, right? So if, we take the models from the product and share them around the internet, that´s copyright violation?
But they ain't copyrighted anymore, if they are "changed", right?:
Being a modeller myself, I'd recommend that you "watermark" your stuff by adding small errors deliberately or add small, barely noticeable, ahistorical details to your models
There you go...just mod the product. :|\
Now all we need, is someone who buys 1 copy.... :hmm:
*disclaimer* I am not the type of person, to steal or use someone's intellectual property just like that...but if it becomes stealing from a thief, than I have less objections.
Marhkimov
12-21-05, 08:12 PM
Hey, just wonderin'...
Is there anyway to tell if they're using Pack3D or any of our free community tools? Maybe TT's dat extractor or something?
I was thinking that they shouldn't use our freeware to make payware.
And when the HELL are we gonna sue their ASSES?!? :stare:
Marhkimov
12-21-05, 08:23 PM
And I kind of agree with others are saying...
There you go...just mod the product. :|\
One person can buy their *crap* and re-mod all of their ships... And then redistribute them as freeware.
BUT before someone comes by and deletes this message, you guys should know that THIS IS PERFECTLY LEGAL (at least where I am from). The rule of thumb for art and literature (and why not videogames?) is that if you change something more than 50%, you are now in fact the new owner. Of course, the concept of 50% varies from person to person, but that's the general rule.
And even though you can claim it as yours, you still need to credit the original creator, through bibliography, works cited, etc.
So in fact, it might even be legal what they are doing to us, so long as they change a few detail around, here and there... Now too bad they don't give us credit for our work, but that's beside my point.
So why not be so gracious as to do the same thing to them that they do to us? Damn, those suckers deserve it! :stare:
Der Teddy Bar
12-21-05, 08:36 PM
Hey, just wonderin'...
Is there anyway to tell if they're using Pack3D or any of our free community tools? Maybe TT's dat extractor or something?
I was thinking that they shouldn't use our freeware to make payware.
And when the HELL are we gonna sue their ASSES?!? :stare:
It is obvious that they are using Sansal's Pack3D, the flags are upside down. Combat99 has as much admitted to using Sansal's Pack3D as well.
I do not speak for Sansal, as he may be happy to have his program used as such.
The horse probably has bolted as far as the current use of any public domain utilities and/or programs to create PayWare and for any vessel in the public domain that may have been ‘borrowed’. I for one wish to ensure that my 'FreeWare' Mods stay Free and are not used in a commercial product. As such, I am asking if we have a suitably qualified legal person who can produce a relevant legally binding ‘fair use' statement, or what ever the legal term may be.
Suing anyone who breaks the 'fair use' will not be a realistic option. But what the 'fair use' statement will allow, is for use to approach a publisher with some credibility, and should this fail, then for a moral campaign against any publisher who seeks to publish 'borrowed' material etc
Marhkimov
12-21-05, 09:21 PM
Just OT, but I looked at the Fiji and the Southampton again, and noticed that they are totally different...
I'm sorry Serg. My mistake; apparently I didn't pay attention to how much work you put into it.
And again, sorry...
Marhkimov.
And why are the flags upside down, i wonder. I've never saw such an effect clonong shps with Sansal's tool. Actually, I wouldn't like to get all of these ugly clones even for free.
Copyrights? :hmm:
What happened to freedom of the internet?
Der Teddy Bar
12-22-05, 04:35 AM
Copyrights? :hmm:
What happened to freedom of the internet?Since when has the internet meant that it's a free for all? Just because it is easy to get doesn't make it legal.
I course, you could be just pulling my chain :rotfl:
"Since when has the internet meant that it's a free for all? Just because it is easy to get doesn't make it legal. "
Indeed, I just thought I saw a tiny bit of hypocricy somewhere.
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=46392
CptGrayWolf
12-22-05, 07:34 AM
Ohh these X1 guys arn't making any friends in the SHIII community. They must be buddies with the starforce people. :lol:
And why are the flags upside down, i wonder. I've never saw such an effect clonong shps with Sansal's tool.
Maybe you have an older version - some older versions do not have this side effect. It happens when you you use a newer release to make changes to nodes or to import a .obj. It's easy to fix though.
HundertzehnGustav
12-22-05, 01:37 PM
Certainly I may think about that when I will make real Italian ships and not the reshuffled stuff from the pecies available in SH3.
????????
uh oh.
dont tell me...
team up with??
i would know what to do, but that would be painful for that (not so) respected person.
team up with?????
Serg, are you DRUNK?
*SHOCKED* :o :o :huh: :x
Marhkimov
12-22-05, 01:42 PM
HundertzehnGustav,
umm, I didn't say that... You might want to correct that quote...
HundertzehnGustav
12-22-05, 01:44 PM
thank you for pointing out this error.
(still cannot copypaste properly) :oops:
:D
previous pst edited for accuracy on the quoted person.
my apologies.
johnfriesen77
12-22-05, 02:27 PM
I went to SIMHQ site and the guy said they will release some of the ships free.. that's cool.. It also says they are making their own cruisers.. kent and southamptom.
One of the pictures is different there than the one in this thread.. looks like they already changed the minesweeper...
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