Stiebler
12-14-05, 11:53 AM
One of the omissions from SH3 was the availability of submarine tankers (‘milk cows’, U-boat Type XIV) during 1942 to 1944, when they were available for supplying other U-boats. I wanted to added a basic form of milk cow to my own edition of Rub. The principle is easy enough: place a German naval base in the middle of the ocean, and have a tanker circle the base, so that the player would have something to look at when approaching the base.
So I took the type IXC U-boat folder from the data\submarine file, copied it as a new folder ‘Type9C14’, modified it a little for new appearance, equipment and AI control (rather than player control), added a suitable entry to the roster folder and made entries for a new base and the new U-boat type circling the base in campaign_scr.mis. In testing, by creating new campaign careers for 1941, 42, 43 and 44, everything worked fine. The milk cows appeared when expected, and the bases functioned. So far so good.
The problem came when I ran a complete campaign through Rub from 1939 - just pleasure-playing, not testing. Everything ran well until the very first load of a saved game in 1942 (the first year of appearance of the milk cows). Then the program refused to load while in port. Investigation showed that the problem was because I was trying to run a type IXC boat for myself, as well as for the AI-submarine tanker. If I played with a type IXB (or other U-boat), no problem. Conversely, if I now constructed an AI-submarine tanker from a type IXB boat, I could play the whole campaign happily with a IXC boat - but the program wouldn’t load in port if I was playing a type IXB boat.
The bottom line is that - in my experience - you cannot operate two identical U-boat types together, one for the player and one for the AI. Also you cannot create a new U-boat type (such as type 14), and you cannot fool the SH3 by making the AI-submarine tanker into a surface vessel, by placing it in the data\sea folder.
This has some important consequences:
Sansal created a ‘milk cows mod’ some months ago, using a naval base as described above with a circling surface tanker. This seems to be stable, since it is not using a U-boat type.
Rubini appears to use the same method as me for his ‘Harbour Traffic 1.46’ mod. I would expect this to show the same behaviour - has anyone noticed it? (Rubini is using a type IXB copy as the AI-tanker.)
Sergbuto has created two AI-controlled U-boats for his ‘AI-subs’ mod. He supplies the U-boats; you are expected to provide their patrols in one of the campaign files. I would expect this mod also to be affected.
Solutions:
1. I may simply be wrong. Perhaps I’ve overlooked a file somewhere that I should have altered to tell SH3 that I need a new U-boat type controlled by AI. If this is the case, then someone please let me know!
2. Otherwise, players who use milk cow mods must avoid playing those U-boats that are also used by the AI as duplicates for the milk cows. (So arguably the IXC boat is the best U-boat to pick for the milk cow, and for everyone else to avoid using - play with the IXB or IXC/40 instead).
3. Or perhaps some kind modder would create a German surface tanker that behaves in all respects like a surface tanker, but looks like a type IX U-boat with flak guns only?
It's interesting, though, that SH3 only loads into memory enough data for its immediate needs, say about six months worth.
Incidentally, I’m aware of all the problems of delays in base when using naval bases as substitute milk cows in this way. Please don’t divert this thread into a discussion of time delays.
Stiebler.
So I took the type IXC U-boat folder from the data\submarine file, copied it as a new folder ‘Type9C14’, modified it a little for new appearance, equipment and AI control (rather than player control), added a suitable entry to the roster folder and made entries for a new base and the new U-boat type circling the base in campaign_scr.mis. In testing, by creating new campaign careers for 1941, 42, 43 and 44, everything worked fine. The milk cows appeared when expected, and the bases functioned. So far so good.
The problem came when I ran a complete campaign through Rub from 1939 - just pleasure-playing, not testing. Everything ran well until the very first load of a saved game in 1942 (the first year of appearance of the milk cows). Then the program refused to load while in port. Investigation showed that the problem was because I was trying to run a type IXC boat for myself, as well as for the AI-submarine tanker. If I played with a type IXB (or other U-boat), no problem. Conversely, if I now constructed an AI-submarine tanker from a type IXB boat, I could play the whole campaign happily with a IXC boat - but the program wouldn’t load in port if I was playing a type IXB boat.
The bottom line is that - in my experience - you cannot operate two identical U-boat types together, one for the player and one for the AI. Also you cannot create a new U-boat type (such as type 14), and you cannot fool the SH3 by making the AI-submarine tanker into a surface vessel, by placing it in the data\sea folder.
This has some important consequences:
Sansal created a ‘milk cows mod’ some months ago, using a naval base as described above with a circling surface tanker. This seems to be stable, since it is not using a U-boat type.
Rubini appears to use the same method as me for his ‘Harbour Traffic 1.46’ mod. I would expect this to show the same behaviour - has anyone noticed it? (Rubini is using a type IXB copy as the AI-tanker.)
Sergbuto has created two AI-controlled U-boats for his ‘AI-subs’ mod. He supplies the U-boats; you are expected to provide their patrols in one of the campaign files. I would expect this mod also to be affected.
Solutions:
1. I may simply be wrong. Perhaps I’ve overlooked a file somewhere that I should have altered to tell SH3 that I need a new U-boat type controlled by AI. If this is the case, then someone please let me know!
2. Otherwise, players who use milk cow mods must avoid playing those U-boats that are also used by the AI as duplicates for the milk cows. (So arguably the IXC boat is the best U-boat to pick for the milk cow, and for everyone else to avoid using - play with the IXB or IXC/40 instead).
3. Or perhaps some kind modder would create a German surface tanker that behaves in all respects like a surface tanker, but looks like a type IX U-boat with flak guns only?
It's interesting, though, that SH3 only loads into memory enough data for its immediate needs, say about six months worth.
Incidentally, I’m aware of all the problems of delays in base when using naval bases as substitute milk cows in this way. Please don’t divert this thread into a discussion of time delays.
Stiebler.