Change of depth...

[Fandango]

Guys,

are we sure that the changing depth time is not correct?...

I've made some tests myself and it "feels" right. I mean, when you make a little change of depth, it takes longer because the sub is not that inclined ...but when you order a larger depth change, the sub is more inclined and it goes deeper quicker...

Am I missing something here?... :hmm:

[LuftWolf]

The physics engine is not tuned correctly in the BETA patch. The buoyant force is greater than the weight of the subs.

Notice that when you are at max depth and max speed and hit emergency surface, your submarine will pull G's close to a Fighter Aircraft on the way up. :hmm:

[Fandango]

The buoyant force is greater than the weight of the subs.

Mhm...still I don't get it. That should bring it to a final equilibrium buoyancy... :hmm:

Well, I trust you, guys...just fix what you think should be fixed

[LuftWolf]

That is to say, the subs should act as if they are heavier than they are in terms of their interaction with the water, regardless of trim.

They should not act like balloons full of air, even with emergency surface.

[Kapitan]

akula should dive faster from surface to 50 meters 4 minuets 17 seconds last time a sub done that was a british K class and it was sinking.

at that speed a skula should be able to get down to 50 meters in less than 3 minuets even 2.5 minuets

[Sub Sailor]

I have tested this and sadly I don't know how to post my results on the site.
But let me say from real life, submarines are able and do make very steep decents. Doing a 20 degree down angle is not all that uncommon, DW, during my testing never seems to go over 7 degrees either up or down, now I did not test emergency blow.
Sonar737 wrote about an evolution subs do that is quite common, Angles and Dangles, we do really steep and rapid depth changes, I have seen 30 degrees. It is fun, good training for planesmen, you defintely find out if you are stowed for sea, and more importantly it lets you practice manuvers you would use in evasion.
Please consider this, the Helmsmen and planesmen have seat belts and use them on orders to prepare for steep angles, everyone else just hangs on. That will tell you that these boats are setup to and will do really steep angles.
One thing I noted in testing, AI will change speed when you go up-average of 6-7 knots, and will go back to the ordered bell during the last 100 feet of the ascent. Also deep depth to PD is much faster, almost like you gave the tanks a shot of air, which you don't normally do. Subs basically fly when submerged and nuke boats have the power reserve so do not use air except in an emergency, they do use the low pressure blower to fully surface of course.
Ballast tanks are full of water, you cycle vents on a regular basis to insure so maybe DW is seeing some type of influence regarding denisty on an up bubble, but I have never heard of that. It defintely increases speed on its own.
I will caution all players one thing I have discovered in DW is during evasive manuvers mind your depth because all the boats tend to sink lower on a hard turn which is new to DW. I have hit the bottom several times until I started testing why, and the debrief screen will tell you you "crashed". I have also discovered DW will over run ordered depth on a dive. E.G. you order 700 feet and during descent change you mind say you are at 400 feet when you decide and you order 500 feet, the boat will go-on an average-60-75 feet below the new ordered depth. In real life this would not happen as the helmsmen would catch the boat, and believe me they are good at putting the OOD right on, they all take great pride in it. I suggest all of you watch the control room screen during some manuvers the helm indicators flop around something awful, and often during a dive or surface the planes will indicate zero. The trim indicator will indicate an up or down bubble, but not the palnes.

Respectfully,

Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

[Fandango]

Mhm...how difficult is it to make things work right?. I mean, a manual control of the planes as it is for the rudder would be a good step forward...

[LuftWolf]

Well, let me think back to the last time someone tried to code a physics engine that would successful account for playable submarines, surface ships, and airplatforms. :hmm:

Oh wait, no one has ever done that before SCS and Dangerous Waters. :o

It's hard, to answer your question. :up:

[Fandango]

But at least the manual controllable planes... :cry:

[Bellman]

Yep this speed of depth change topic is old, old hat.

But did you read the notes flagged up at the start of the 1.03 patch instalation process ? -
Corrected an issue in the physics engine which was causing the subs to dive/surface too slowly

Oooooh no sorry its '' only a Beta.'' Give me a break ! :nope:

[Sonoboy]

Well, let me think back to the last time someone tried to code a physics engine that would successful account for playable submarines, surface ships, and airplatforms. :hmm:

Oh wait, no one has ever done that before SCS and Dangerous Waters. :o

It's hard, to answer your question. :up:

:hmm: BF1942?

[Winston]

:hmm: BF1942?

...Was a game and not a high fidelity simulation.

[Angle]

I can sink ships on the highest difficulty. No autocrews. How much of a fidelity sim can DW be?

[Fandango]

Well, I read somewhere on this site that the US Navy is using it to train its crew... :up:

[Fandango]

Here's the link:

http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=20981

Actually, they use something that's derived from the game...

[LuftWolf]

I can sink ships on the highest difficulty. No autocrews. How much of a fidelity sim can DW be?

Want to try me? :smug:

And the answer to your question is "very"...

[Kapitan]

and me ?

[TLAM Strike]

and me ?I wouldn't be talking there Kapitain. I saw how a slow moving Car Carrier skillfully evaded your torpedo salvo by sailing in a strait line… :lol: :lol: :P

[LuftWolf]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Kapitan]

ooopppps hehe whoops

my bad but next time :arrgh!:

[Angle]

I can sink ships on the highest difficulty. No autocrews. How much of a fidelity sim can DW be?

Want to try me? :smug:

And the answer to your question is "very"...


If it was high fidelity I wouldn't be able to operate the sonar or anything else in the game at all. I have no formal training.

[XabbaRus]

don't feed the troll.

[Angle]

XabbaRus. It's just some criticism on how realistic it is. Just a rebuke on the game's realism. The last beta patch for example. The change of the layer effect. Was there a change of realism since SC?

[Kapitan]

the game is 95% realistic id say as nothing is 100% but if your spoiling for a duel you found it in all of us we are all willing to take you on and take you out :D

some of us are very experianced ive been a sub skipper for about 3 maybe more years since SC came out ive developed my own tactics, area of operation , and own manuals.

many of these people here are fine skippers and fine gentlemen (and women) any good skipper would fear them for they are the equal enamy regardless of platform

[sonar732]

XabbaRus. It's just some criticism on how realistic it is. Just a rebuke on the game's realism. The last beta patch for example. The change of the layer effect. Was there a change of realism since SC?

Yes, there are plenty of changes compaired to SC.

[Fandango]

...and fine gentlemen (and women)...

Where?!?!?... :huh:

[Kapitan]

nice to see you opend your eyes lol

avon lady is a girl so is sharkstooth havnt seen her ecently what happend?

[Winston]

I can sink ships on the highest difficulty. No autocrews. How much of a fidelity sim can DW be?

Want to try me? :smug:

And the answer to your question is "very"...


If it was high fidelity I wouldn't be able to operate the sonar or anything else in the game at all. I have no formal training.

If you’re looking for the highest fidelity experience around I suggest you join the navy of your country. I have a feeling Angle that you, like me, played Sub Command before your sojourn in to Dangerous Waters, am I wrong? As this is the case then this might be considered if not as good as ‘formal training’ given that the games are very similar in there interface. It would be odd, would it not, if you were unable to transfer your knowledge of operating a sonar station from Sub Command to this simulation? I think you already know the answer to the question you asked for it is of the highest.

[Pirate]

Hello,

On the Akula I hit the emergency blow, and I got a more than 40 degree angle up, my sub's speed went more than a 100knots.

I'm using the path 1.3b

This game has been much disapointment to me as it has shown sow much basic bugs.... like this one! How can sub go to more than 100knots with an emergency blow?

Have been playing again with SC, and just don't understand how somethings that were fine on SC have taken a step back with DW.
This just does not make any sense at all!!!
As time passes by I'm playing more and more SC again and less and less DW!

[Winston]

Hi there Pirate. The 1.3b is a beta patch and as such will have its fair share bugs. Hang in there as soon the full 1.3 patch will be out and things like this will be fixed. I’d guess the reason things like this crop up is that there is a new physics engine so odd things can happen sometimes. Sometimes when you take a step forward you can trip up. Best thing is to pick you self up after and continue going forward.

[drEaPer]

don't feed the troll.

Very true



Have been playing again with SC, and just don't understand how somethings that were fine on SC have taken a step back with DW.
This just does not make any sense at all!!!


Would you be so kind and list them so we can adress them or take note of them?

[Pirate]

Hi drEaPer

The one that bothers me the most right now is the one I have described above.
As for the others just search the dw forum I'm sure you'll find them.

Anyway found another by acident, I think.
At stadimeter I acidently found that the photo image is split into 2 parts both draggable with the mouse, up and down. Think this is a bug as I don't find it normal.

But I got to say that I love the water texture and movement! Much better than the SC. :up:
Oh and Sky colors and effects are also better. :)

[Zerogreat]

Anyway found another by acident, I think.
At stadimeter I acidently found that the photo image is split into 2 parts both draggable with the mouse, up and down. Think this is a bug as I don't find it normal.

I think this was in SC too, wasnt it? :yep:

[Pirate]

Anyway found another by acident, I think.
At stadimeter I acidently found that the photo image is split into 2 parts both draggable with the mouse, up and down. Think this is a bug as I don't find it normal.

I think this was in SC too, wasnt it? :yep:

Yeah, your right Zerogreat! Just confirmed that!!
And I play SC for 3 years now, and never seen that!!! lol

[LuftWolf]

I'm reasonably certain that's how a stadimeter works.

BTW, the physics model, even with the 1.03b issues, is much much improved over SC... no more subs turning in a boatlength, and there is a reasonable acceleration curve now. :up:

[Fish]

Anyway found another by acident, I think.
At stadimeter I acidently found that the photo image is split into 2 parts both draggable with the mouse, up and down. Think this is a bug as I don't find it normal.



RTFM! :up: Manual, Section 13: 688(I) Station 13.53

Pirate, be sure your talking "bug" when it is a BUG. :stare:

[DivingWind]

YEAH! That's no bug! Stadimeter is dragable to find range to target seen trough periscope! You align ships highest mast to waterline and thats your range to target.Ofcourse you need to have ships height,which can be found also in stadimeter station. (Seawolf automatically finds range to target just by alighning the top of mast wiith waterline)

[Pirate]

Thanks for explanation on the stadimeter. Did not know that!
I thought it was a bug! My mistake :damn:

[Zerogreat]

Heh, and i though the problem we were talking about is that both two parts of the photo are draggable, while only one half shoud be :lol:

[drEaPer]

In SH3 it works well, but in DW I rarely use it, cause my estimate of range is seldom accurate. Its off by 2000-4000 yards sometimes, and I _really_ wonder what Im doing wrong (my nose is nearly hitting the screen when I align the mast and waterline, so no error here).

Anyhow, the 1.03 patch is really good, so if you find bugs with 1.03 you can always post them here and we can adress them or put them on the list for Jamie (so they know about it, doesnt mean it gets fixed).

I share your view when comparing SC and DW 1.00 but I am quite satisfied with DW 1.03. :)