Italian Soldati re-skins (To be released with next HT mod)

[Marhkimov]

*EDIT* December 26, 2005



CamO Crazy!!??? UPDATE: These skins will be released with the next edition of HT mod.

http://img273.imageshack.us/img273/1802/18vc2.jpg
^New (optional) dark/light silhouette pictures for the rec manual.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a172/hockeemaster/Soldati/10_generic5.jpg
^generic5 Soldadi DD (based on Condottieri V)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a172/hockeemaster/Soldati/9_generic4.jpg
^generic4 Soldadi DD (based on Attilio Regolo)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a172/hockeemaster/Soldati/8_generic3.jpg
^generic3 Soldadi DD (based on Quintino Setta)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a172/hockeemaster/Soldati/7_generic2.jpg
^generic2 Soldadi DD

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a172/hockeemaster/Soldati/6_generic1.jpg
^generic1 Soldadi DD

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a172/hockeemaster/Soldati/5_Alpino.jpg
^Alpino Soldadi DD

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a172/hockeemaster/Soldati/4_Bombardiere.jpg
^Bombardiere Soldadi DD

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a172/hockeemaster/Soldati/3_Legionario.jpg
^Legionario Soldadi DD

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a172/hockeemaster/Soldati/2_Corsaro.jpg
^Corsaro Soldadi DD

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a172/hockeemaster/Soldati/1_blank.jpg
^plain camo Soldadi DD


I tried my best to make each Soldadi look exactly like its real life counterpart, but with the texture repeat, it is just not possible. Therefore, we have to settle for ships that are almost exact, but not exactly exact... Oh well. They look good enough.


Cheers!
Marhkimov.

[Marhkimov]

Here's some shots of the default Soldati, btw.

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/1034/soldativiews2wb.jpg


No doubt, it's a really good skin, but NOT ALL Soldati's should look like that. For lack of the Italian warships in the Mediterranean, at least I can skin the Soldati for some variety...

[Rubini]

marhkimov,

I, Scirè and Eweber are working on RSI and Black Sea Scenario. We will use some more Soldati, then if you make new skins will be good. I think that is a good idea to you to contact Scirè, he have access into a lot of info on Italian forces on WWII. ;)

Cheers,

Rubini.

[HundertzehnGustav]

for the hell of it, afaik i have a dozen VWs, from scratch, 14 or 15 Type 34 (should fit the Type 36 a too) and 3 c class.
in the works is the Tribal Class, and the Clemsons too.

I work from selfmade Paint shop Pro 8 templates, so i can make as many as i want with a minimum amount of work.... :D

good to see another one Join in the repaint frenzy. :up:

[Marhkimov]

Does anyone know why Soldati's have red and white stripes painted on their bows?

[Scire]

Does anyone know why Soldati's have red and white stripes painted on their bows?

It was intended to avoid friendly fire from air attack in the same way of the german svastikas on the Bismark, but it were soon deleted in the very first time of the conflict.
About the camo pattern most of the ships were simply grey but the camoufled ones adopted a great number of pattern variants.
Between 1925 and 1945, the Regia Marina built only one kind of explorer, the "Navigatori" class. These units were classified explorers in 1929 and reclassified destroyers in 1938. During the period leading to World War II, the Regia Marina built or refurbished 8 battleships, numerous light and heavy cruisers, but the units which were built in the largest number were destroyers and explorers. The destroyers were, by then, units belonging to naval squadrons and not any longer than the original torpedo boat hunters. This new class of ships was required to be able to attack using torpedoes and cannon fire and was also expected to provide escort for larger units. These new units not only grew in scope, but also in displacement which from the original 1,560 tons of the "Turbine" class, grew to the 2,460 tons of the "Soldato" class. The armament usually consisted of several 120mm guns and 4 to 6 533mm torpedo launchers.
One of the original requirements was speed. These new units were capable of speed of 38 to 39 knots while being sufficiently seaworthy.



http://www.regiamarina.net/arsenals/ships_it/dest/images/corsaro_1.jpg

http://www.regiamarina.net/arsenals/ships_it/dest/images/da_recco.jpg

http://www.regiamarina.net/arsenals/ships_it/dest/images/da_noli.jpg

http://www.regiamarina.net/arsenals/ships_it/dest/images/carducci4.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Cockpit/5520/italy/regolo1.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Cockpit/5520/italy/scipio1.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Cockpit/5520/italy/attendo1.jpg

[Marhkimov]

Scirè,

Thanks for the info and pics. We are gonna have some WILD Soldati's! :up:


But I noticed one thing. Only your first and fourth pic are of Soldatis. The rest of the ships are of a different class (2 funnels and more main deck cannons).

But does it really matter? I like all of the camo schemes. Would it be too crazy if I decided to skin a bunch of non-Soldati camos too?

[Scire]

Do not worry about it Marhkimov!

The italian Regia Marina was usual to apply the same camo patterns "style" with no care about the class of the vessel.
So the same camo variant (generally tipical for each arsenal were it was applied) were used on many ships from destroyers to battleships, from torpedo motor boats ,to resupply ships.
So you can simply copy the pattern even if coming from others ship class and you are always historically rights!

(BTW: please sorry for my bad english! :-? )

[Marhkimov]

No problem. I almost have the blank camo scheme done. After that, applying camo stripes will be easy.

[Marhkimov]

Does anyone know where I can find color illustrations?

Or at least some color schemes? I dunno what colors to make of all my black and white photographs... :-?

[Marhkimov]

Nothing makes a boat look better than a spiffy paint job...


My first camo scheme is still a WIP

The portholes are smaller than stock. They've also been put into their correct positions. Also, different Soldati's had different amounts of portholes, but do we really need to be that specific? I don't think so...

Currently, it's a remake of the default paint scheme. There is also a hint of rust, but overall it is not a rustbucket as originally portrayed by Ubi.

So how's she look so far?

[CCIP]

Very pretty!

I love the subtle aging; I used to like the "rust-buckets", but I've really grown very fond of the slightly-aged look.
This one looks great - very sharp

Are you planning to extend that pattern?

[Marhkimov]

Yeah, I am planning on finishing the rest of the hull.

But It is getting very tedious because I have to pack the skin into the dat file every time I need to check on the stripe alignment. That means packing the skin, booting SH3, loading naval academy, taking screenshots, quitting, then back to skinning some more, and repeat whenever I need to check on something again... Skinning is naturally a time-consuming process... but OUCH, that is a lot of wasted time...

On the other hand, it is much easier to skin on multi-skin ships because you can alter-tab in and out of the game, and skins will refresh in realtime while you are skinning... Soooooo much easier to get something done.

It will be slow until Sergbuto helps me to make the Soldati a multi-skinned boat. Soon I hope. ;)

[Scire]

Marhkimov ,
a PM for you about Soldati class! :up:

[Marhkimov]

...the italian navy as a result of the difficulties in receiving refueling generally employed the same varnish of the received kriegsmarine as war supply therefore the ships employed the same bottom gray with generally black camouflage bands or more very rarely in dark green.

So did the Italian ships have red keels? If not, were they grey or black keels?

Did their ships have black waterlines above the keel paint? Did they even have painted waterlines?

In most of the b&w photographs, the plain camo paints look very light. Is that a German style grey or is it more "whitish" paint?


Does anyone know?


Thanks,
Marhkimov.

[blumen-bts]

excuse me for my bad english.
The coloration was various between the several units and also in function of the year.
The used colors were: clear gray, medium gray and black according to various schemes of coloration.
See the link for examples:

http://www.larsenal.com/Source/catalogue/resine/regia/RM_006.jpg

http://www.steelnavy.com/RMNewModelsOct2005.htm

Last thing, the "Navigatori" model of the game is completely mistaken.

[Marhkimov]

Thank you for the links and color models. They will be of much help to me.


Last thing, the "Navigatori" model of the game is completely mistaken.

Well, we gotta remember that SH3 is just a game. The devs did their best overall job to capture the likeness of real ships and submarines, and that is all we can ask for.

Anyways, I don't think they did such a bad job. I'm wondering, what makes you say that? :hmm:

[blumen-bts]

we gotta remember that SH3 is just a game

yes it's only a game :) no problem ...

It is only a consideration....I work on "navigatori" model for DC/SH2 and I know well this destroyer class .


http://www.webalice.it/blumen65/navigatori-preview.jpg

[Scire]

Hi Marhkimov,

This info is mainly based on some of the chapters on this subject in the "Navi Italian" series of books, the Vitochart number 25 for Axis and Japanese Warship Camouflage Colors, information from some other publications, and a study of a lot of photos. Working thus from secondary sources it can only be a first approach to the subject but hopefully it will be useful to the modder.
Like other navies of the time the Italian navy experimented with camouflage painting towards the end of WW I. After the war the Regia Marina returned to a standard light gray paint. Only torpedo boats had a dark gray over-all scheme into the late twenties. From the early thirties onwards the standard scheme for all Italian combatant ships was as follows.

Hull and upperworks - Grigio Azzuro Chiaro, (Light Blue-Gray)
Waterline - Nero, (Black).
Underwater hull - Rossa Mattone, (Brick Red), or - Verde Scuro, (Dark Green).
Decks, (steel), - Grigio Ferro, (Iron Gray) also known as, - Grigio Ponte, (Bridge Gray).
Decks, (wood), - Unpainted. (After the war began wood decks were painted over in Grigio Ferro).
Boats - Grigio Azzuro Chiaro with the lower hull Nero.
Interior walls - Verde Chiaro, (Light Green).
Command bridges - Blu Scuro, (Dark Blue).
Interior walls of gun turrets - Blu Scuro.
Anchors & chains - Nero.

After the Battle of Punta Stilo in the late summer of 1940, (when Italian warships came under attack from their own air forces), all Italian warships recieved oblique red and white stripes painted on the forecastie forward of the breakwater as a recognition marking for "friendly" aircraft. Some ships also had these stripes painted on the after deck. Shipboard biplanes had their top wings painted this way also. The angle of the stripes was either 45 degrees or, (more often), 60 degrees to the axis of the ship. This marking system was in use through the end of 1943.

In 1940 the Italians began testing camouflage designs based initially on patterns from previous experience in WWI. A few small auxiliaries were used for this purpose. The first major fleet units to receive camouflage patterns were the BB LITTORIO, CA FIUME, and the submarine MILLO in the spring of 1941. These were followed by the BB DUIUO, CL ATTENDOLO, and BB VITTORIO VENETO, all in early-to-mid 1941. The ATTENDOLO pattern was designed by the famous naval artist Claudus. It was a multi-colored scheme, a variation of which was adapted to the battleships ANDREA DORIA and GIULIO CESARE in late 1941. Colors were Azzuro Opaco, Grigio Chiaro Opaco, and Nero. CONTE DI CAVOUR in late 1941 also used this scheme with another panel of Bianco Sporco Opaca added to the pattern. By the end of 1941 camouflage became usual for the ships of the Regia Marina. It would seem that all warship types from destroyers upwards carried a camouflage pattern at one time or another. At first there was an experimental phase, (late 1941 - early 1942), where many colors were used. These were:

Bianco Sporco Opaco - (Foul Flat White).
Grigio Chiaro - (Light Gray).
Gregio Cenerino - (Ash Gray).
Gregio Scuro - (Dark Gray).
Grigio Molto Scuro - (Very Dark Gray).
Nero - (Black).
Bianco Vedastro Opaco - (Flat Greenish White) = Verde Chiarissimo.
Verde Chiaro - (Light Green).
Verde Scuro - (Dark Green). Giallo Verde - (Yellow-Green).
Giallo - (Yellow). Azzuro - (Blue).

Then, in the summer of 1942, the first standard painting instructions appeared. These consisted of 3-color design schemes using: Bianco Sporco Opaco - Grigio Chiaro - Grigio Scuro. They consisted of areas of light and dark gray with dull white areas at the bow and stern to make the ship appear to be shorter. Usually port and starboard sides had different patterns. With some ships the light areas at bow and stern were first painted in Bianco Vedastro Opaco, later being painted over in Bianco Sporco Opaco. Many ships also had false bow waves in Bianco Sporco Opaco. Late in this phase of camouflage development most ships had the white portions at bow and stern repainted in light gray and integrated into the camouflage pattern.

In 1943 a second generation of official paint standards appeared. These were generally of 2-tone patterns using Grigio Chiaro and Grigio Scuro. The identification letters on destroyers and torpedo boats generally remained in place even after the ship was camouflaged. In some cases the color was changed to Grigio Chiaro or Bianco, (White), to allow them to blend into the camouflage scheme.

During 1944, (cobelligerency period), those Italian ships that fought for the allies were painted in a standard scheme in accord with the USN Measure 22 or Royal Navy Admiralty Standard design. The hull was in Grigio Scuro, upperworks in Grigio Chiaro. Those ships under German control initially retained their Italian camouflage paint. Later many were repainted overall with Gregio Scuro or other dark grays.

After the war many of the surviving units retained their wartime painting into 1948. Light gray upperworks and dark gray hull was a common scheme as was light or dark gray overall. In 1948 the Italian Navy returned to the pre-war standard of Grigio Azzuro Chiaro overall with Red identification letters. The I.D. letters were replaced by NATO pennant numbers after 1953.

The Italian names for the colors used in this article are from Italian publications dealing with this subject. I do not know if these are the official designations. The Vitocharts in part use other names for some of the colors but the names used here are consistent with all the other sources I consulted. It seems that there were also systems using letters and numbers identifying the paints. The numbers in these listings give the year of introduction. I found indications for listing for the years (19)10, 17, 24, 29, 37, 38, 40, and 42. It seems very unlikely that the colors really differed or changed from one listing to the next. Probably every change in adminstrative instructions brought a change in the numbers on the color lists. The color itself was designated by a letter. Unfortunately there appears to have been no logical system for the letter designations. Some colors had a prefix, SP, which indicated that they were experimental. For example, LITTORIO and FlUME received an experimental scheme consisting of SP 4213, (a blue/green), SP 42C, (a gray/green named Grigio Ferro), and SP 42F, (a olive color named Verde Oliva Minetico). The 37B color, (Gregio Ponto), later became 42G and seems to be the standard color used for decks and bridges, which was also known as Grigio Ferro (iron gray). It is all very confusing. From 1943 there was a designation system in use consisting of the letter prefix CL and the combination of a cypher and a letter. In this area there is need for much additional research.

http://home.att.net/~ShipModelFAQ/smf-q046h.jpg

The chart shows 10 colors covering those mainly used by the Italian Navy during World War II. Colors include:

Grigio Scuro (Dark Gray),
Girgio Chiaro (Light Gray),
Blu Scuro (Dark Blue),
Azzuro (Light Blue),
Marrone Verdastro (Greenish Dark Brown),
Grigio-Azzuro Chiaro (Light Blue-Gray),
Verde Chiaro (Light Green),
Giallo Verde (Light Yellow-Green),
Bianco Sporco Opaco (Matt Foul White),
Rosso (Red).

[Schultzy]

Beautiful WIPs mate.

I'm gonna have to get a transfer to the 29th and start sailing in the med once you finish them!!

:rock:

[HundertzehnGustav]

Yeah, I am planning on finishing the rest of the hull.

But It is getting very tedious because I have to pack the skin into the dat file every time I need to check on the stripe alignment. That means packing the skin, booting SH3, loading naval academy, taking screenshots, quitting, then back to skinning some more, and repeat whenever I need to check on something again... Skinning is naturally a time-consuming process... but OUCH, that is a lot of wasted time...

On the other hand, it is much easier to skin on multi-skin ships because you can alter-tab in and out of the game, and skins will refresh in realtime while you are skinning... Soooooo much easier to get something done.

It will be slow until Sergbuto helps me to make the Soldati a multi-skinned boat. Soon I hope. ;)

Heh massa Marhkimov

what i do:
paint the entire ship: do screenshots in game, return to the paint priogram, and check out my screenshots.
there i see what i dont like, and i can correct it if i care enough about the problem.

and
i dont pack the textures into the DAT files, i put the TGA files into the texture tnormal folder...
hope it fastens up and improves your painting experience
:rock:

[Marhkimov]

Oh WOW! Color charts!!! :up: :up: :up:

Perfecto!!!



And thanks for the tip, HundertzehnGustav.

I forgot that I can just put the skin into the texture folder.

[Marhkimov]

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4535/83xf.th.jpg (http://img229.imageshack.us/my.php?image=83xf.jpg) http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4774/93mq.th.jpg (http://img229.imageshack.us/my.php?image=93mq.jpg)

See first post for more pics.



Scirè,

Do you think the colors are right? Might the hull color be too bright?

Does anyone notice anything else?

[Scire]

Marhkimov

i think the colour is correct , remeber that the no camo version have always the identification letters painted in the forward.
The letters scheme is.

AP Alpino
AI Ascari
AR Artigliere
AV Aviere
BG Bersagliere
CN Camicia Nera
CR Corazziere
FC Fuciliere
GE Geniere
GN Granatiere
CB Carabiniere
CA Corsaro
LG Legionario
MT Mitragliere
SQ Squadrista
VL Velite

http://www.modelli-navali.it/MM-Italiana/arch_immag/soldati1936/soldati1936_im/alpino_00_V.jpg

in the photo you can see the "Alpino" - AP - as sample.


http://www.modelli-navali.it/MM-Italiana/arch_immag/soldati1936/soldati1936_im/alpino_01_V.jpg

please note the very rare artwork (the roman fascio) sometimes applied by the crew in the same way of the u boats ensigna (but never on camo version)

http://www.modelli-navali.it/MM-Italiana/arch_immag/soldati1936/soldati1936_im/x_bombardiere_01_V.jpg

draft line

http://www.modelli-navali.it/MM-Italiana/arch_immag/soldati1936/soldati1936_im/x_legionario_00_V.jpg

the "Legionario" with camo pattern. Please note the "Fu.Mo 21/39 - De.Te" german radiotelemeter antenna.

[Marhkimov]

I wish I could add the identification letters, but there is a problem with SH3 texturing. The lettering would be correct on one side, but reversed on the other.

"AP" would turn out to be "PA", and not to mention that the letters themselves would be reversed.

For this reason, I think we will have to settle for totally blank skins.



btw, I am currently skinning the Legionario...

[Type941]

looking good. nice skins. ;)

[Scire]

Understand!
No care for the letters it remains a great works! :up:
Impatience for the Legionario......
I think Rubini too hurry up for your skins!! :rock:

[chris911]

Those are really nice . Maybe i will do another italian DD with the two funnel design so we can use them on this one too.Since everyone wants italian Ships atm that would be a nice add on.

[Marhkimov]

Those are really nice . Maybe i will do another italian DD with the two funnel design so we can use them on this one too.Since everyone wants italian Ships atm that would be a nice add on.

Yeah, go for it. That'd be nice. :up:

If you do decide to model another Italian DD, I'd recommend doing the Navigatori class. It's a very versatile ship.

[Marhkimov]

http://warships.web4u.cz/ships/img/61106.jpg
^Bombardiere - I count three tones in the picture: a white, a grey, and a dark. My guess for the colors are:
Light area - Bianco Sporco Opaco (foul flat white)
Grey area - Grigio Chiaro (light grey)
Dark area - Grigio Scuro (dark grey)

Does that seem correct? Or are there 4 tones instead of 3?

In any case, this is what the WIP looks like:
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/2659/soldadiwip18ib.jpg



http://www.modelli-navali.it/MM-Italiana/arch_immag/soldati1936/soldati1936_im/x_velite_00_V.jpg
^Velite (in 1944 late war colors) - two tone camo, dark grey on the bottom and light grey on the top.



I'm just placing some pictures here so that I can find them in one neat place...

http://warships.web4u.cz/ships/img/61094.jpg
^Alpino

http://warships.web4u.cz/ships/img/61097.jpg
^Aviere

http://warships.web4u.cz/ships/img/61109.jpg
^Mitragliere

http://warships.web4u.cz/ships/img/61110.jpg
^Velite

[Scire]

Go this way Marhkimov!
Your skins are awesome!

[Scire]

Go this way Marhkimov!
Your skins are awesome!

[CCIP]

Wow, that Bombardiere skin looks very accurate!

Keep it up - I hope you don't run into any of those usual SHIII texturing issues with the overlap textures (knock on wood! :doh: )

[Marhkimov]

I'm going pretty fast now. If I'm working at flank speed (and that's a BIG if), I can whip up one skin every 3 hours. In artistic terms, that is light speed. :D

Actually, many of the textures are repeating and overlapping, and that's why it's taking me so long. I could go faster if the textures were mapped a little better, but oh well. It's not like Ubi is gonna fix it anytime soon...


Remember, if anyone has any nice pictures that I could use, post them here and I might try and skin them.

[CCIP]

Not of the Italian DDs, but I did pick up a book on Allied escorts of WWII, and I really thought it'd be great to have some of those paint schemes on the ships. I might pick it up again and scan a few - I'm no skinner, but maybe someone else might want to. :hmm:

[Marhkimov]

Hey, if they're nice, just scan them and I'll have a look.

[CCIP]

Hey, if they're nice, just scan them and I'll have a look.

My favorites were actually the really beat-up looking Canadian corvettes :88)

I'll pick them up next time I'm at the library. There's actually a surprising amount of good reference literature on the battle of the atlantic in any decent library, even for just making skins.

[Marhkimov]

There's actually a surprising amount of good reference literature on the battle of the atlantic in any decent library, even for just making skins.

Oh yeah, huh? I forgot about the library... The internet has spoiled me... :doh:




On a different subject,

I was testing the Soldadi in the Naval Academy and I fired a shot at it. It got mad and started to shoot back at me, so I went to periscope depth and hid.

The Soldadi then came searching for me, but I didn't get pinged. Even though he did not know my exact location, he proceeded to use his K-guns to shoot random depth charges (Soldadi has no DC racks). Since I had moved, he was off by a long-shot.


What baffled me the most was that I did not get pinged, and that I was not even located by his hydrophone. So I browsed through the Soldadi's sensor file and confirmed my beliefs.


Q: What kind of a destroyer has no ASDIC? No hydrophones?

A: Apparently an Italian destroyer... :shifty:


Q: What do you call a destroyer that can't destroy anything?

A: Italian.




Is that true?

[Scire]

In the reality the Soldati class was equipped with fixed and trained hydrophones and full radar equipment (initially an italian model after the german "Fu.Mo 21/39 - De.Te")

The weaponry was:

- n° 2 double guns of 120/50
- n° 1 single gun 120/15
- n° 4 double guns of da 20/65
- n° 2 triple torpedo launchers of 533 mm
- n° 2 dept bombs launcher a.s. (same as Hedg.)
- n° 2 pneumatic depth charges launchers a.s.
- n° 34 depth charges
- n° 1 trained hydrophone
- 64 mines rack

and remember a top speed of 40 kts.

Really a bed guy to fight on.....!

http://www.modelli-navali.it/MM-Italiana/arch_immag/soldati1936/soldati1936_im/l-bombe-pirico_00_V.jpg

http://www.modelli-navali.it/MM-Italiana/arch_immag/soldati1936/soldati1936_im/l-bombe-pneu_00_V.jpg

the pneumatic depth cherges launcher hit the depth charge on a very high descent velocity that left the attacked submarine least time of reaction in order to put in action evasive maneuvers

[Marhkimov]

In the reality the Soldati class was equipped with hydrophones and radar (initially an italian model after the german "Fu.Mo 21/39 - De.Te")

- n° 2 double guns of 120/50
- n° 1 single gun 120/15
- n° 4 double guns of da 20/65
- n° 2 triple torpedo launchers of 533 mm
- n° 2 dept bombs launcher a.s. (same as Hedg.)
- n° 2 depth charges launchers a.s.
- n° 34 depth charges
- n° 1 trained acoustic torpedo
- 64 mines rack

and remember a top speed of 40 kts.
Really a bed guy to fight on.....!

Oh wow!

So the real Soldadi had radar and hydrophone, but no ASDIC/SONAR?

I'm not the person to fix this, but someone MUST fix this! Soldati's need to have DC racks and hedgehogs, and also radar and hydrophone.



Another issue with all destroyers in SH3: they basically have no survivability whatsoever. I pitted a Soldadi versus a Type34, and they both destroyed each other... IN LESS THAN 1 MINUTE! They were at close range (<5000 meters) but still. Is that possible?

I hope Der Teddy Bar's tonnage/HP mod fixes this...

[Marhkimov]

If I was the captain of my personal Soldati, this is what it would look like:

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1893/c37ko.th.jpg (http://img229.imageshack.us/my.php?image=c37ko.jpg) http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3170/c41ls.th.jpg (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=c41ls.jpg) http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5692/c59ff.th.jpg (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=c59ff.jpg)

[Scire]

Amazing! Marhkimov

impossible to do better Rubini will be enthusiast to add it on the next HT mod...... :up:

[Scire]

Amazing! Marhkimov

impossible to do better Rubini will be enthusiast to add it on the next HT mod...... :up:

[Rubini]

Great work marhkimov!

I'm adding some more Soldatis on the HT stuff for the RSI scenario. How could I use yours new skins?:hmm:

Rubini.

[Marhkimov]

Great work marhkimov!

I'm adding some more Soldatis on the HT stuff for the RSI scenario. How could I use yours new skins?:hmm:

Rubini.

Rubini,

If you want, I can send you what I have right now so that you can run some tests.

They should work like any other multi-skinned ship. The skin TGAs go in the individual ship folder and it will randomize the Soldadi skins in the RND layer. It's nothing complicated, really.

Though I'm not sure how it will affect the SCR layer. Do you know how the skins work on scripted ships?

Marhkimov.

[Rubini]

I think the skins will runs fine on the scripted units. And obviously it's possible to define the skins in accord of the games dates. So when I'm ready to test and use them I will contact you! :up:

Rubini.

[Marhkimov]

And obviously it's possible to define the skins in accord of the games dates.

What? How do you do that?

I noticed that there are early and late war schemes for the Soldati, but I thought that the game is only capable of randomizing all of them. It'll just be a mix of early and late schemes.

What do you have in mind?

[sergbuto]

No, the game is not capable of randomizing skins. If Soldati is spawned in the RND layer, it will be always spawned with the same skin (_T0X, where X is the largest number for the skin) unless two or more Soldatis are 3D-rendered in the same scene. Only then, the second Soldati will wear the _T0(X-1) skin and third Soldati will have the _T0(X-2) skin and so on.

Only in the SCR layer it is a possible to use a variety of skins by specifying the number after the unit name like this

Name=IT DD Soldati#4

where #4 would mean for the game to use the number 4 skin (_T04) from the corresponding folder. By this means you can always script in the unit with specific skin to appear only after a certain date.

[Marhkimov]

Oh, thanks for the heads up Sergbuto. :up:


Only in the SCR layer it is a possible to use a variety of skins by specifying the number after the unit name like this

Name=IT DD Soldati#4

Is this also true for single missions?

EDIT: No, it's not possible for singlemissions or the Naval Academy. I just tried it.

[Marhkimov]

I just wanted to see if I could modify the equipment, so I gave the Soldati sonar and hydrophones, and also replaced its K-guns with DC racks.

But you can see that the DC racks are in the wrong location:
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/8366/16dg3.jpg

Real DC location:
http://www.modelli-navali.it/MM-Italiana/arch_immag/soldati1936/soldati1936_im/x_mitragliere_03_V.jpg


I need to change the positioning of the nodes, or create new nodes. But I don't know how.

Btw, how do we know how many nodes there are? Is there a node list somewhere?

[gouldjg]

Is it only this type of ship with those angles for DC racks?.

To be honest, I would much prefer all DD to have that v shape if it could be done.

With regards to the DD killing each other too quickly,

Has anyone ever thought of just halving all weapon values except maybe torps.

Theres a million and one ways but one has to be carefull that he is not left with boring sinkings.

This is why I think I would the ships alone and go for the weapons in game.

Same with sub except half the sub hit points so collisions work better i.e. ramming and hitting the sea bottom.


I really really really do like the DC v rack idea. :up:

[Marhkimov]

I think all other ships have their racks in a rearward "V" formation.

The Soldati does not have appropriate attach point for the racks, therefore I have to use the side nodes which are meant for the K-guns.


Yeah, I agree with you about halving the gun strengths. Though I'm not doing anything about it because Der Teddy Bar promises to fix all of the HP issues with his tonnage mod.

[Marhkimov]

Oh good point Cdr Gibbs. But it just frightens me that a ship that probably took 8-10 months to build in dry-dock gets sunk in 1 minute... :dead:


Anyways, these days I am more weary when more mods are needed. I'd rather stick to what we have now... but only if it works! ;)

[Marhkimov]

Hey! I DO like the sound of that. Gigantic naval battles... Yummy... :P

[Type941]

I have redone all guns.dat, shells.dat ...
Its not quite ready for release tho - still working on the 16inch Guns and their respective hull types ;)

I'm very eagerly awaiting this mod. :up:

[chris911]

Now I have 30Km gun battles between Allied and Axis Heavis (BB's, HC's, LC's) with many shots over and under, beaut stradles, concentrated fire from 1 TF heavies all on to 1 heavy target of the opposing TF, escorts trying to kill off the opposing TF escorts. - its a full blown battle !!

But don t go over the top here regarding the range and accuracy .As u maybe know the longest range of a direct hit ever documented was of the Schanhorst against the Glorious at about 33.000 meters .Normaly BBs opened fire against other ships at about 28.000 meters , effectivly fireing and hiting at about 23.000 meters.

[Marhkimov]

Hey everybody.


Forgive me if I am slow, but I am sacrificing speed for quality. I don't take my "camouflaging" job very lightly, and I found that I am even doing it when I'm away from the computer:

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1592/sketch7eu.jpg

That's my sketchbook that I doodle with when I'm in class. When the instructors have us take notes, guess what I'm doing? LOL. I think you can call me CamOoOo-CrAzieee!!

Anyways, give me a few weeks and you will have the best Soldati's you have ever seen.


PS - I think I'm going to be a kit modeller when I become an old geezer... :lol:


Cheers!
Marhkimov.

[chris911]

Sounds really good then imho. :up: :up:

[Gammel]

hello Cmd Gibbs,

so it seems you have digged deep into that naval gunnery part of sh3, do you think you´re able to lower the AA gun accuracy of the subs and other surface ships?

For me (like in SH2/DC) all guns are much to accurate, but lacking of power.

In SH2/Dc you had the possibility of lowering/rising accurace with that traverstal/elevation error stuff in some cfg files.

Is that trav_tolerance / elev_tolerance stuff in the guns.sim file maybe a similar setting and if so, do you have an idea how the game reacts if you rise lower thet values? My guess is a higher value means lower accuracy...
especially the elevation error needs to be raised for me.

I´m with you about the impact power of the shells, they had to be more powerfull to compensate the lowerd accuracy.

So you´ll have more shells around the ships in the water, but when a hit occours the results would be more fatal.
In SH2 i had good results with increasing the destruction power of the shells by factor 10(!) and increased elevation error.

Please excuse my english!

[Marhkimov]

Ships with crew ratings of 1 or 2 have very poor accuracy.

Ships with crew ratings of 3 or 4 seem to have laser guided cannons... :doh:


I wonder if Cdr Gibbs did anything to address this... :hmm:

[Marhkimov]

The Italians are festive too! MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE! :D

http://img498.imageshack.us/img498/5228/11lk.jpg


I'll see you guys after the holliday weekend... Bye!

[HundertzehnGustav]

m' mov if i may suggest, increase the size of the Bridge windows a bit... evenn if jhust a pixel or two...

otherwise: gimme, dammit, this looks excellent.... :o

do we need sergbuto to make the soldati multiskinned? a update on his multiskin package? :o

oh my jolly gosh.... :huh: :o

[Marhkimov]

m' mov if i may suggest, increase the size of the Bridge windows a bit... evenn if jhust a pixel or two...
Will do this. Thanks. :)


do we need sergbuto to make the soldati multiskinned? a update on his multiskin package? :o
I already asked Serg about multi-skins, and he was also nice enough to add DC racks to the Soldati. Don't worry, all is well. :up:

[iambecomelife]

I'm a latecomer to the thread, but I have to say that these new skins beat the pants off the default. The textures have such a realistic, metallic look - outstanding. :up: My favorites are the camo patterns, with all those jagged triangular shapes.

To get a better variety of skins to appear ingame you could use a randomizer like the one in the Merchant Variety Pack. It's a brute-force workaround, but it's better than seeing the same skins all the time.

[Marhkimov]

Thanks iambecomelife. Here's the same christmas soldati without the wild and wacky colors:

It's a dazzle paint, with a lot less dazzle:
http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/1900/15ew1.jpg

[Marhkimov]

Pictures updated on the 1st post.

What do you guys and gals think?

[snowsub]

I think they look great Marhkimov. :rock: :rock:
Give yourself a big pat on the back :up:

[HundertzehnGustav]

Looking good.
you seem to be pleased with the work you did...
useless to say i look forward to the release. :D
and Sergbuto is helping out as well...

man i dont need a chriostmas present, i need Global cooperation like this :D


Iambecomelife
isnt the randoimizing part useless? i mean if M`mov names his textures xxx_T01 xxx_t02 xxx_t03 etc

then the game will randomly choose one, RIGHT?

i often spot lone custom painted V/W Destroers out on the large atlantic...

seems to work without randomizing, to me at least... :doh:

OR? :o

enlighten :sunny: me...

[Marhkimov]

Looking good.
you seem to be pleased with the work you did...
useless to say i look forward to the release. :D
and Sergbuto is helping out as well...
NoLine is helping out as well. Everyone should know that this project would not be possible without the help of the 3D modellers.

hahaha, I am pleased with everything, except for the fact that I am so slow... ;)



Iambecomelife
isnt the randoimizing part useless? i mean if M`mov names his textures xxx_T01 xxx_t02 xxx_t03 etc

then the game will randomly choose one, RIGHT?

i often spot lone custom painted V/W Destroers out on the large atlantic...

seems to work without randomizing, to me at least... :doh:

OR? :o

enlighten :sunny: me...
I think I can answer this one...

For ships that you randomly encounter at sea, their skins will be "randomized" in that you probably will never ever encounter the same ship twice. If you do, you might find the same exact skin.

However, you will have an easier time to notice that a scripted ship will always have the same skin (i.e. harbor patrols, scripted task forces, etc.), or ships in single mission. So in that regard, an actual randomization process might be useful.

...

But it would be so much trouble for me, since I do not know how to make a batch file. I could probably use SH3Cmdr to do it, but not everyone uses SH3Cmdr... Plus, I'm pretty sure that SH3Cmdr does not do randomization such as name-swapping.

[Marhkimov]

Thanks to NoLine, the Soldati has been re-done with DC racks in the rearward position, along with K-guns. I have also equipped it with sonar and hydrophones.

Now, you don't wanna mess with this bad boy. ;)

This is already in addition to the work that Sergbuto did, in making a multi-skin Soldati. So when it comes out, there should be between 10 or 12 new camo schemes for it.

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/1997/10fc.jpg


PS - The Soldati remake will be released in the next small addon pack to HT1.47, along with some other "goodies"... :hmm:

[Scire]

Thanks to NoLine, the Soldati has been re-done with DC racks in the rearward position, along with K-guns. I have also equipped it with sonar and hydrophones.

Now, you don't wanna mess with this bad boy. ;)

This is already in addition to the work that Sergbuto did, in making a multi-skin Soldati. So when it comes out, there should be between 10 or 12 new camo schemes for it.

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/1997/10fc.jpg


PS - The Soldati remake will be released in the next small addon pack to HT1.47, along with some other "goodies"... :hmm:

Awesome work Marhkimov!
For the next Add On we absolutely need at least other two unit......on PM some indication about and, you know, i can provide all kind of draws, info and pics about it :up:
I think that You, No Line (just in contact with him) and Sergbuto will could do a stunning work!!

[Scire]

Thanks to NoLine, the Soldati has been re-done with DC racks in the rearward position, along with K-guns. I have also equipped it with sonar and hydrophones.

Now, you don't wanna mess with this bad boy. ;)

This is already in addition to the work that Sergbuto did, in making a multi-skin Soldati. So when it comes out, there should be between 10 or 12 new camo schemes for it.

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/1997/10fc.jpg


PS - The Soldati remake will be released in the next small addon pack to HT1.47, along with some other "goodies"... :hmm:

Awesome work Marhkimov!
For the next Add On we absolutely need at least other two unit......on PM some indication about and, you know, i can provide all kind of draws, info and pics about it :up:
I think that You, No Line (just in contact with him) and Sergbuto will could do a stunning work!!

[HundertzehnGustav]

Random randomizing of random units

ah i see ... the ships in the Harbors always have the same skin :D
thats nowt what i care about... i am in Harbor only 0.5 per cent the time anyway.
:know:

on open sea where random units work, i always look for new paintjobs though... peeking throu the peeriscope to indent the exact type of DD that is about to cross my T-Tubes...

So i will use the upcomin` Harbor Traffic Mod too. :D

Damn, this Game is taking up more an more Place on the HD... jhust the way i like it. :up:

What about the Gun towers... they are the samne as on the Tribal class etc... are they as accurate as atm possible, or could they possibly be swapped for something more externally correct?

(jhust asking... :D )

[Marhkimov]

What about the Gun towers... they are the samne as on the Tribal class etc... are they as accurate as atm possible, or could they possibly be swapped for something more externally correct?
Are you referring to the Soldati?

It'd probably be more trouble to change them than to leave them as is.

[HundertzehnGustav]

Lol shure the Soldati... what ya recon, me talking about the Yamamato? :D :o :P

jhust clowning around... :-j

:sunny:

[Marhkimov]

lol, yeah, what was I thinking.. :lol:

Anyways, I like it the way it is, unless someone can show me a better looking Soldati model...

[HundertzehnGustav]

I like it too, but i pity that i dont ever ever see any axis units going on patrol... imagine you have an engagement with a med convoy, shadowning, and the Command sends you two german DDs and four Soldatis and a Few Sparviero T-Bombers as support...

all i aver see is the IUB 102 soldati in port... :( :(

[Marhkimov]

Well, all we can do is dream... Too bad, eh?

Actually, there are probably over 20 Soldati's travelling in the Med at any one time. Eventually, odds have it that you will run across one of the Italian task forces, sooner or later. If you follow some of them, you will notice that they make engagements with British ports. That should be a REAL BLAST!!! :yep: :yep:

The Med is very up-close-and-personal... That's what I love about it!

[HundertzehnGustav]

Hell, you got a totally different impression of the Med than i. in 3 patrols, IX , almost eight weeks per patrol, i sunk about 10 000 tons. one C2 and a coastal. :o

and the odd Hurricane near Malta.... :(

would love to see what you sedcribe.... :D

[Marhkimov]

Later on in the war, the Med is a very dangerous place to be. Full of action and suspense, you're bound to have a Hurricane fly down your pants at every possible moment.

:-j

There's plenty of ships too... And similar to the Atlantic, you just gotta know where to hunt for them.

[Marhkimov]

For personal reference... Camo is hard - I'm still skinning...

http://warships.web4u.cz/ships/img/61068.jpg
Lanzerotto Malocello - Navigatori Class DD

http://warships.web4u.cz/ships/img/61067.jpg
Giovanni da Verazzano - Navigatori Class DD

http://warships.web4u.cz/italia/dd/img/ship-sella.jpg
Quintino Sella - Sella Class DD

http://warships.web4u.cz/ships/img/61088.jpg
Quintino Sella (opposite side?) - Sella Class DD

http://warships.web4u.cz/ships/img/20416_001.jpg
Trieste - Trento Class CA

http://warships.web4u.cz/ships/img/20419_001.jpg
Gorizia - Zara Class CA

http://warships.web4u.cz/italia/cr/img/rys-bolzano.gif
Bolzano - Bolzano Class CA

http://warships.web4u.cz/italia/cr/img/ship-bandenere.jpg
Giovanni Delle Bande Nere - Condottieri I Class CL

http://warships.web4u.cz/italia/cr/img/ship-montecuccoli.jpg
Raimondo Montecuccoli - Condottieri III Class CL

http://warships.web4u.cz/ships/img/20435_001.jpg
Luigi di Savoia Duca degli Abruzzi - Condottieri V Class CL

http://warships.web4u.cz/ships/img/20436_001.jpg
Attilio Regolo - Capitani Romani Class CL

[Marhkimov]

2 new skins added. Check first post...

1 more and I think it'll be ready for the next harbor traffic mod.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Awesome work as usual M!

[Marhkimov]

DONE! (check first post)

10 Soldati skins. Now we wait for the rest of HT mod...