HOLLYWOOD PRO beta finnished

[gouldjg]

I am doing a new series of Hollywood mods

Please locate the Hollywood adavanced thread for released version.

Part 1 deals with the sub and different crew models
part 2 deals with the ships
Part 3 deals with planes

This is nearly release worthy but I just want some of you folks to pass your comments on how it feels.



Get it here

http://rapidshare.de/files/7177630/Hollywood_Pro.rar.html

Contains the New living Crew model and HOLLYWOOD PRO damage tweaks.

Warning = this is a test model only so do not use unless you know how to replace files and are aware of the usual risk when swapping files.

I used a RUB installation then copied the folders onto it. I would not use Sh3 commander just yet but I am going to be releasing the settings for commander after its new release. Therefore, while we are waiting for this weekend to come, we can all beta test each other’s work (suggestion).

To install just copy all relevant folders to each location and make back ups of those replaced.


The Living Crew mod

Quick guide

This crew model is very realistic and yet flexible enough to let people choose their own shift times. If you do not like the long micro management to get to patrol areas, just change your 3d render settings so that after 32 you pause the fatigue just like in stock. Either way, I think some will love it once they get used to it.

1. Only use combat and repair compartments when in combat or doing repairs

2. Choose to place men on shifts (set by your selves) between 4 - 16 hours but be aware that it takes longer to regain energy. i.e. A fully fatigued man will need at least 8hrs sleep.

3. Do not use WO or Navigator unless you need them as they can be used as back up officers

4. Do not change the 3d render settings to 1024 if you want to only use these setting in times less than 32 time compression.

5. This is probably the closest we will ever get to a real crew model and it also benefits the damage model.

6. Try a new campaign and test for yourself and you will see the realism and immersion factor it gives. I am still open to suggestions on things that happen within 24-hour day on a sub but I will not be doing a non-fatigue or long term fatigue model to coincide with the damage model. All I can do is post setting tweaks so that these type of models gets some results also.

7. People can still use their own personal fatigue models on the new damage settings but I will have to post different settings so that they can get see benefits in the damage models.


The Damage Model

Basically, to get longer repairs and more intensive deaths, floods and shells, the game requires a reduction in the men’s skills as well as reduced repair compartment efficiency.

On top of this, it has been necessary to change the hull integrity values so that the sub does not just go to the death screen in 1 second flat after a critical hit. (This does not mean the sub is now a tank, as you will discover)

The zones cfg has been completely balanced to introduce a more intense flooding system. Your sub will sink slower than before but take longer to control some major floods. I had a couple of fantastic test, which tested my crew management to the limit.

You can in some scenarios, be forced to swap men around very tactically in compartments to deal with emergencies.

You can in some scenarios, be on a slow decent and hear your sub breaking up but still miraculously make it back up. Sometimes you cannot and have to watch your self go to crush.

You can now choose to ignore some minor leaks to sustain silent running.

There are loads of tweaks done to give a completely new experience.

Can I suggest people test this on the 505 missions in different subs and use different tactics to see the potentials.


I will be writing a full change log and tutorial after the weekend once I wrap it all up and make a special effects version, realistic version, Not so realistic version, Rub, IUB, Fatigue version and non fatigue version blah blah blah. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Everyone wants something different :rotfl: :rotfl:

I will also be thanking all contributors on the release version which should be done Monday after the Big mods all release and I tweak so fit them.

[ICBM]

A question about the improved damage model; is it still VIIC only or is IX's DM model also improved?

[gouldjg]

All subs have had Hull Hit Points upped respectively so any sub can go under the microscope.

Hope this helps

[HEMISENT]

Gouldjg "OUTSTANDING"
I've been watching the back and forth development on the new damage model for some time now. Just Dl'd - feedback shortly.

THANK YOU!!!!!

[Marhkimov]

HEY GOULDJG!!! I needed this!

I was just saying to myself, "Gee, no one has modded anything in a while... How boring..."


hehe, yeah, I talk to myself. Interesting convos we have.... anyways, nice job! :up:

[gouldjg]

Well it has been almost 3 weeks since discoveries were made and I felt people should at least get a feel for the future of the damage modelling in this game.

I am sure Jungmann is very hard at work on his project and I look forward to the die hard mod myself especially if he has also discovered new stuff that could triple repair times or make the DC attacks more varied.

As it stands now, I was just bored of waiting for a framework so decided to try myself based on previous findings and my personal feel of game play.

When testing you have to remember that you start on 505 with a fully fit crew. The new crew model is dynamic in that when playing on the campaign, your crew may not be all-full of beans and rearing to jump into action especially if you have been placing them all on 16 hour shifts between contacts.

There are just too many variables to consider in damage modelling and I have decided I have to draw the line somewhere and get a model out for players of this game.

It is the feedback from you guys that will get a released version out on Monday night.


I don't want science, I just want your gut feelings on game play and good examples of this mods strengths and weaknesses.

People do not have to use the fatigue model I use but to get the most from this game, I do recommend they consider some advice I give on Monday. It will at least enable them enhance their own games by far but not to the extent of this crew model.

I will be posting a full tweaking tutorial on all findings up to date and for those of us who have Timetravellers excellent tools, I recommend people to start experimenting with DC and hedgehogs. You may find your personal settings to be more thrilling, realistic or fantasy based.

[Fangschuss]

Looking forward for an Final Release :up: Keep on the Great Work :rock:

[Marhkimov]

So these are the .zon files that jungman tweeked? or did you do them?

And I noticed that the AI u-boats were tweeked. How is their hull different than the human controlled u-boats?



EDIT: and I was just browsing through the basic.cfg and I noticed the super small FATIGUE_COEF. For instance, 'BadWeather2=0.000000001'. So is this like a weekly fatigue model or something? I thought you were interested in the 24 hour model??

Or are there some other values that compensate for these low values??

[HEMISENT]

Gouldjg. Just wrapped up the first test mission using the U 505 mission in as recommended. I used a VIIC.
I have:
RUB 1.44
Airpower RUB/HT
HT1.46
Hollywood Pro
U mark
Nav tools.
I did not start with SH3 Commander
Noise meter enabled
Hull integrity% disabled

First. the escorts really suck at initially detecting me-not a criticism on your mod this has happened before pre-Hollywood. I had to actually surface then crash dive to get their attention.
I was repeatedly dc'd by a single escort for over an hour real time, after the first 45 minutes a couple of AC from the carrier showed up to lend a hand. I experienced repeated flooding some major/some minor, all sorts of internal systems damage. All in all a very different feeling.
My bow compartments received the heaviest damage at first with what appeared to be critical flooding. The boat was headed down despite all efforts to stem the dive. finally at around 170m she started to rise gradually. Pumps & damage control eventually got her back on an even keel at 100m. The stern compartment then took a very near hit heavily damaging nearly every single component. My DC team was able to repair the stbd shaft and rudder when another close hit destroyed the entire compartment(shows full red)steering and propulsion were still operational though. Gradually the boat came under control all systems either repaired or not critical. I allowed the DC team to rest awhile. The boat continued to take a pounding however I found I was able to evade the depth charges by staying deep. Apparently I got carried away with the depth thing and the hull crushed at 193m-instant death.

To be fair I installed the die hard mod test files from Jungman the other day. I've been using them in a test career with a type VII and experienced very similiar rersults. With the two of you putting out such excellent work this is going to be a tough call.

2 questions:
1.When do pumps start working(pump icons showing) Automatically or only when DC team at work on that particular compartment?
2.If a compartment is manned is existing crew still working on damage or is it strictly repaired by DC team?
3.(I lied) Using the mod installer I noticed some files from my Airpower mod overwritten. Any chance of taking a look at this in the future as I just got my Airpower for RUB & Ht working properly.

Overall a very intense experience- More later.
Thanks again.

[GlobalExplorer]

I did a few missions with your mod installed.

First the Curageous.
In spite of repeatedly surfacing, I couldn't get the Escorts to drop a single depthcharge. Maybe it had to do with them being Black Swan Frigates.
When I excited I saw the mission takes place 1939.

The I tried the U505 mission (1944)
As soon as I order flank escorts detected me at roughly periscope depth and start pinging me like mad.
In the ensuing pounding I was hit by Hedgehog twice and still kept running. Lots of damage, but still could be fixed. Boat in control all the time in spite of leaks.
Then all of a sudden - kaboom - sudden death.

I tried the Malta mission as well (1942)
Let make it short. I was depthcharged and got damaged too. Going down to 175m and silent running I was able to escape.

Conclusion. Pretty good, with the exception of the Black Swans not attacking when I'm submerged, but this might have other reasons.

Remark. I have never played that early so maybe the early war Escorts are sometimes not even dropping depthcharges, dont know.

[Jungman]

I am still around, I just had some health issues I had to attend to. :D

Gouldjg wants to get something out the door quicker than my slowness. :shifty:

The basic things that are to be changed I have seperated into three major categories.

1) The hull integrety and armor for each sub. Hull last longer.

2) Changes to crew qualification to slow down repairs. Only having a fully qualified , ranked and rested crew will give you 100% in a compartment.

3) You can make changes the fatigue sytem as you wish.

4) Finially basic changes to the Zones.cfg in order to get the flooding (increase in comparment HP, etc). This is also a user defined. You can use the games default Zones.cfg or any of the several versions out there.

5) Changes to the Intervals in the Basic.cfg to affect minimum men qualification 'score' total in that compartment to start repairs. The next number is the minimum score to get the compartment to operate. Example I use is it takes a score of 4 regular seaman to start repairs in the engine room, but it takes a 6 seaman 'score' to operate the engine.

But we have different views on how it should be done, and both are valid. I have ran hundreds of tests with the values I am working on, and as gouldjg can tell you, it is a very difficult balancing act! :smug:

In spite of repeatedly surfacing, I couldn't get the Escorts to drop a single depthcharge

First. the escorts really suck at initially detecting me-not a criticism on your mod this has happened before pre-Hollywood. I had to actually surface then crash dive to get their attention.

I also noticed the problem of the elite/veteran DD escorts not wanting to drop their DC too happening to my version. It is odd. I was not sure what was going on (was it something I messed up in one of the files?) I had to "surface" to get their attention! I am using my own files. It is strange. :hmm:

So to fix the problem, I made changes to the AI_Sensors.dat file in order to make the DD smarter to find you. This is the best the Navy DD have in June 1944 and they should really track you down. It works much better.

It is an odd thing. Anyway, you can get the new SonarDC Mod within the version I am almost done with. Everyone can try it out and use whatever files you want, because with alot of these changes, some people may just want to paste and cut for their own damage model version.

I am slow at getting the Die Hard mod out, but I want to make sure it will work smooth and most adaptable for use in other custom mods out there.

Gouldjg: How much did you increase the HP for the VIIC and changes to Armor Level? I find that roughly double the Health Points is a good rule of thumb, then you must reduce the armor level from 25 to 15 seems to give a decent hull destruction without the super sub effect.

Going with pure zero armor level does odd thing in the game, reason I ask.

1.When do pumps start working(pump icons showing) Automatically or only when DC team at work on that particular compartment?
2.If a compartment is manned is existing crew still working on damage or is it strictly repaired by DC team?


In the Basic.cfg file, the Intervals control the number of men you need to start the repairs, then the next number is the minimum to operate the room such as engines. The men in a station will do self repairs on their own, plus the DC team will add to the repairs.

Only the rest quarters will not use self repair of crew in the station. Only the DC team can repair the rest quarters.[/quote]

[VON_CAPO]

Well done! :up: :up: :up:

[Hartmann]

I have a Rub without a hollywood pro mod and in the u-505 mission and i was able to sink the carrier, and the scorts don´t detected me. they looking for subs but too far

Perhaps is normal that they don react in this mission. :hmm:


you can see the screenshots here..scroll down


http://subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=44959

Rub+visibility 16 km mod.

[Jungman]

Using RuB with the 200m sonar nerf, the destroyers will not pick you up at the very start as it was designed since you are in its blind spot now.

That's why I speak of making the late war sonar Type 147A with less blind spot so they can still kill you.

In the Sim.cfg it is set for detection time of 20 seconds of pinging you hard in the red. Once you are detected, then all the DD within a given area will come to investigate, I think.

I assume there also maybe a problem if people are using the Visibility Mod. It causes the Visual to override all other sensors. That is why in one mod I increased the RWR distance so it will work in some capacity. Maybe these DD need also a visual boost too as in IuB. 8km to 12 km. :hmm:

[gouldjg]

So these are the .zon files that jungman tweeked? or did you do them?

And I noticed that the AI u-boats were tweeked. How is their hull different than the human controlled u-boats?



EDIT: and I was just browsing through the basic.cfg and I noticed the super small FATIGUE_COEF. For instance, 'BadWeather2=0.000000001'. So is this like a weekly fatigue model or something? I thought you were interested in the 24 hour model??

Or are there some other values that compensate for these low values??

The fatigue is a better version of the 24 hour model. It enables players to select their own crew shift to how they want.

The weather is still pretty much wip as I cannot realy determine the effect of it without spending months of testing. I set it on a low figure for most compartments and am awaiting more tests results to see the exact effect.

I am still testing this weekend and trying to iron out the last few creases. The Zones cfg is my interpretation of damage and sinking rate. Again I await feedback to iron out last few discrepencies.

Will be reporting back over this weekend.

[gouldjg]

Gouldjg. Just wrapped up the first test mission using the U 505 mission in as recommended. I used a VIIC.
I have:
RUB 1.44
Airpower RUB/HT
HT1.46
Hollywood Pro
U mark
Nav tools.
I did not start with SH3 Commander
Noise meter enabled
Hull integrity% disabled

First. the escorts really suck at initially detecting me-not a criticism on your mod this has happened before pre-Hollywood. I had to actually surface then crash dive to get their attention.
I was repeatedly dc'd by a single escort for over an hour real time, after the first 45 minutes a couple of AC from the carrier showed up to lend a hand. I experienced repeated flooding some major/some minor, all sorts of internal systems damage. All in all a very different feeling.
My bow compartments received the heaviest damage at first with what appeared to be critical flooding. The boat was headed down despite all efforts to stem the dive. finally at around 170m she started to rise gradually. Pumps & damage control eventually got her back on an even keel at 100m. The stern compartment then took a very near hit heavily damaging nearly every single component. My DC team was able to repair the stbd shaft and rudder when another close hit destroyed the entire compartment(shows full red)steering and propulsion were still operational though. Gradually the boat came under control all systems either repaired or not critical. I allowed the DC team to rest awhile. The boat continued to take a pounding however I found I was able to evade the depth charges by staying deep. Apparently I got carried away with the depth thing and the hull crushed at 193m-instant death.

To be fair I installed the die hard mod test files from Jungman the other day. I've been using them in a test career with a type VII and experienced very similiar rersults. With the two of you putting out such excellent work this is going to be a tough call.

2 questions:
1.When do pumps start working(pump icons showing) Automatically or only when DC team at work on that particular compartment?

The pumps should work auto in all compartments except the rest qurters because you need the repair team to fix any damage in the rest areas.
2.If a compartment is manned is existing crew still working on damage or is it strictly repaired by DC team?

The existing crew in a compartment will do repairs except crew rest areas. It is vital to swap men to fill some compartments in certain flooding conditions. Sometimes you may think all is lost and after a while they will gain control.

3.(I lied) Using the mod installer I noticed some files from my Airpower mod overwritten. Any chance of taking a look at this in the future as I just got my Airpower for RUB & Ht working properly.

Please show air power settings and I will repeat if these are the best setting to have.
Overall a very intense experience- More later.
Thanks again.

All in all we are getting there but there are so many varibles I am relying on feedback from you guys to get this as good as possible.

[gouldjg]

I am still around, I just had some health issues I had to attend to. :D

Gouldjg wants to get something out the door quicker than my slowness. :shifty:

The basic things that are to be changed I have seperated into three major categories.

1) The hull integrety and armor for each sub. Hull last longer.

2) Changes to crew qualification to slow down repairs. Only having a fully qualified , ranked and rested crew will give you 100% in a compartment.

3) You can make changes the fatigue sytem as you wish.

4) Finially basic changes to the Zones.cfg in order to get the flooding (increase in comparment HP, etc). This is also a user defined. You can use the games default Zones.cfg or any of the several versions out there.

5) Changes to the Intervals in the Basic.cfg to affect minimum men qualification 'score' total in that compartment to start repairs. The next number is the minimum score to get the compartment to operate. Example I use is it takes a score of 4 regular seaman to start repairs in the engine room, but it takes a 6 seaman 'score' to operate the engine.

But we have different views on how it should be done, and both are valid. I have ran hundreds of tests with the values I am working on, and as gouldjg can tell you, it is a very difficult balancing act! :smug:

In spite of repeatedly surfacing, I couldn't get the Escorts to drop a single depthcharge

First. the escorts really suck at initially detecting me-not a criticism on your mod this has happened before pre-Hollywood. I had to actually surface then crash dive to get their attention.

I also noticed the problem of the elite/veteran DD escorts not wanting to drop their DC too happening to my version. It is odd. I was not sure what was going on (was it something I messed up in one of the files?) I had to "surface" to get their attention! I am using my own files. It is strange. :hmm:

So to fix the problem, I made changes to the AI_Sensors.dat file in order to make the DD smarter to find you. This is the best the Navy DD have in June 1944 and they should really track you down. It works much better.

It is an odd thing. Anyway, you can get the new SonarDC Mod within the version I am almost done with. Everyone can try it out and use whatever files you want, because with alot of these changes, some people may just want to paste and cut for their own damage model version.

I am slow at getting the Die Hard mod out, but I want to make sure it will work smooth and most adaptable for use in other custom mods out there.

Gouldjg: How much did you increase the HP for the VIIC and changes to Armor Level? I find that roughly double the Health Points is a good rule of thumb, then you must reduce the armor level from 25 to 15 seems to give a decent hull destruction without the super sub effect.

Going with pure zero armor level does odd thing in the game, reason I ask.

1.When do pumps start working(pump icons showing) Automatically or only when DC team at work on that particular compartment?
2.If a compartment is manned is existing crew still working on damage or is it strictly repaired by DC team?


In the Basic.cfg file, the Intervals control the number of men you need to start the repairs, then the next number is the minimum to operate the room such as engines. The men in a station will do self repairs on their own, plus the DC team will add to the repairs.

Only the rest quarters will not use self repair of crew in the station. Only the DC team can repair the rest quarters.[/quote]

Jungmann

I have highlighted a point you make in red (above)

Are you saying that the first interval is actually the repair status and has nothing to do with running the sub?.

If so, It is yet another discovery I have not really played with to its extent.

When I reduced the firt figure in intervals for the radio room the crew green bar indicates better performance, hence I am presuming it also has something to do with actual operation of sub.

If it is in fact that interval 1 = repair numbers then this damage can be taken to another level all together.

I am glad you are fixing the DD detections as it is far too easy to evade on the 200 setting.

Like I have always said, I look forward to your mod, I truly do. I know you are more logical in your approach than I when it comes to realism.

I am just exploring possibilities for now and future versions. Can I just add what exactly is the funny things that happen due to no armour on subs? I have only notice that surface shells travel further into sub and cause more damage which is a effect I want.

[Jungman]

Does making the armor level zero for the sub.zon and the Zones.cfg work out better? I wonder why they bothered to put in armor level values for the sub parts in the first place. Does it works out better to leave the armor levels zero?

EDIT

I just sen your post. I may just agree with you and just leave the armor level to zero. It seems that you discover it is it easier to balance out the damage.

You can get a nice repair curve by altering the interval level numbers. It is based upon a score, you may have seen the formula, upon rank, qualification, and other stuff coeff in the basic.cfg file. it is useful for reducing the crews ability to repair unless they are a highly trained and rested team.

The engine room I set for a score of '4.0' and to operate with minimum of 6.0. (changed the values of qualif. plus oddly the morale and fatiguw coeff play into also). So you do not get automatic repairs with only one guy in the engine room. You need a score of four from the formula (posted somewhere here) to even begin self repair. That is from the effect of tweaking those qualif. moral and fatigue coeff numbers for the different ranks and crew types.

It makes for even longer repairs, since you will need a minimum number to even begin the repairs, then a couple more to even operate the particular room such as the engines or loading torpedoes at medium or fast speed.

Yes, the 150m does work better for late war sonar ( unless you are playing 100% realism?). In fact, I was setting it up for 200m early, 150m middle, 100m late war. Then combine it with the depth limitation so escaping under the sonar can be an option if your hull is good enough, to balance out the more accurate DD.

[gouldjg]

Does making the armor level zero for the sub.zon and the Zones.cfg work out better? I wonder why they bothered to put in armor level values for the sub parts in the first place. Does it works out better to leave the armor levels zero?

Well for me it does.

The only evidence is when on the surface and directly facing a attacking DD, the shells actually do more internal damage without armour. They seem to travel in the sub.

You get surface flooding internally etc.

I have not noticed any bugs and the men still seem to be able to take the damage.

I did this to try and compensate the higher hull integrity as I went for higher hull than you did.

Why higher Hull?

Well I did it because the flooding set to sink the sub and when at approx depth crush level you have had it. I just hated the hull pressure death at 70 metres so try and prolong this any way I can. (gameplay not realism)

If your model gives this feel and effect then I will go for it 100%. I had to play with floatability as it is just not exciting enough fo me. I like having to rush crew into compartments to help out and the pannic is good for me. On a realism side, I just wanted the sub to sink but at a slower rate than other versions. Thats my overall aim and anything else is extra i.e. repair times.

One thing I like to set straight is the fact that I am not trying to compete with the Die Hard Mod. Like you say, it should be the basic framework that other modders can use to produce their own versions.

Your discoveries are vital to any damage of gameplay effect any model has and you should always be credited with the initial brain waves and the work that you have put into it.

[Jungman]

I understand. I think it would be good to have different flavors. The way I was working is a bit different. I do have faster sinking and longer repair times, and not so much the fatigue thing.

Variety is the spice of life. Keep up the great work! :up:

I still want to try out what you made to get a feel for it. I may like it better. :cool:

I wish I had more time to get the other version kicked out quicker. But life calls and it is taking me longer than I wished (plus improving the DD escort response). This will give people seemingly similar, but different ways to die. It is good to have a choice in that matter. lol.

[gouldjg]

I understand. I think it would be good to have different flavors. The way I was working is a bit different. I do have faster sinking and longer repair times, and not so much the fatigue thing.

Variety is the spice of life. Keep up the great work! :up:

I still want to try out what you made to get a feel for it. I may like it better. :cool:

I wish I had more time to get the other version kicked out quicker. But life calls and it is taking me longer than I wished (plus improving the DD escort response). This will give people seemingly similar, but different ways to die. It is good to have a choice in that matter. lol.

:up:

Your the man.

At least I can churn this out and it may prevent some players from packing the game away due to these issues as I nearly did.

Also it makes the waiting a little easier for your mod. When you said you were tackling It, I am sure people were hanging on their seats to get a grip of it.

I think all in all Jungmann I think that all though we do not directly work together on this project, the community will benefit from it in a big way one day.

By the two of us taking different approaches, it has opened doors that were never previously discovered or considered. (a bit of yin yan should I say)

One day there will be a choice for both gameplay players and realism fans to get a better gaming experience all together.

I will try and get as near as best a version out for Monday yet will now be able to wait for your masterpiece. This way we can all wait that bit longer while you sort things out.

Keep up the great work

[HEMISENT]

Gouldjg.
A bit more feedback for you
Another mission
same setup as earlier post
Type VIIC
Sept 1941 out of Brest
Grid BF76 off El Ferrol. Running on surface 8 - 9 kts, daylight, light clouds, great visibility.
Attacked by single PBY. Strafing attack then bombed.
Thought I'd see how damage works fighting off AC attack.
1st attack run:
Suffered machine gun damage to conning tower, both periscopes & antennea. Damage to frt deck casing. Misc damage to internal compartments but did not take notes as I was busy(before the bomb blast). AC dropped bombs a bit wide due to evasive action. Boat suffered minor flooding damage minor internal systems damage to forward battery, radio etc.. Not too bad so far.
2nd attack run:
Strafing attack kills flak gunner, damages flak gun. Explosion from bombs
causes additional flooding in all forward compartments. At this time I'm directing DC team and moving crew for best repairs. Still surfaced at flank speed.
3rd attack run:
I finally had enough and ordered crash dive to starboard. Boat was maybe 5 - 10m depth when explosions caused severe damage to stern compartment, damage to rear battery, damage to aft crew quarters damage to starboard diesel plus additional flooding to rear areas. Ordered depth back up to 25m to play it safe no idea of hull integrity.
kept boat submerged for awhile. All damage & flooding eventually repaired

Later in mission;
Grid CG81 off Gibralter. Surfaced 8-9 kts. Dusk, clear weather, fair visibility.
Attacked by single PBY.
ordered Ahead flank began evasive manuevers
Attempted to man flag gun but found gun unable to elevate even tho repaired earlier-status read "functional" (I guess this means it's partially fixed but not 100%)
Ordered crash dive. Boat just getting under when stern rocked by two explosions. Very heavy flooding, all systems in stern compartment damaged. aft battery damaged both diesels damaged, elect motor damaged, aft crew compartment etc, etc.
Attempted to level boat but found sinking at crazy angle stern first.
After moving repair crew back and forth between aft flooding compartments plus blowing ballast I was finally able to get the boat headed up - very slowly.
Eventually sitting still on surface in the dark all water was pumped out, as many repairs were performed as possible. The stern compartment which took the hardest hit showed red/destroyed. tube 5 destroyed, port and starboard shafts and props destroyed, rudders and dive planes functional.
Multiple internal components showed functional.
Basically it was time to either abandon ship or rig a sail.
I cheated and warped back to base.

Observations:
Stern compartment seems to take a lot of damage very quickly(second time in a row with near identical results). Coincidence or is it a bit too weak?
Pumps do work as long as crew is in compartments except for crew quarters as advised earlier. Add a crew member & pump capacity increases.
Machine gun rounds damaged conning tower equipt as expected but also travelled into boat and caused internal damage altho not critical is this realistic?
I guess my biggest Grievance with the game(not the mod) is the ridiculously low repair times. Even with massive damage individual systems still only took between 1 - 3 minutes for repairs. The damaged diesels and e motors should have taken hours alone.

Anyway, hope this type of feedback is what you are looking for-overall seems to work well. Immersion & intensity is way up.
BTW I tried it with SH3 Commander also and it worked fine.

[gouldjg]

Thanks for a great report Hemisent

I will look into the stern torpedo room incident ASAP.

BTW I tried it with SH3 Commander also and it worked fine.

Was this the damage settings or did you use SH3 commander with different fatigue models?

Or did you edit the settings into the SH3 commander?

Like Jungman says, we can up this somewhat so it can suit most of the fatigue models though it does work better with a reduction in qual effects.

I am still trying to find longer repair times but I just think it is immpossible to get the hours we wish for unless we find where the damage figures connect to time in the files. If this was found we could possibly mutlply by 2 and double all damage times within the game. (wishfull thinking)

I think we are getting as close as we are going to be able to get with damage times though at least we do get some good system failures without cracking up sub immedietly.

I have set a 36 hour research limit on this version before release and then it is a matter of updates.

Hopefully Jungmann may find something that can help.

p.s. I know the plane strafing should not in real life effect much inside the sub, but it does cause aggro so the minor damage to me, is just a representation of confusion and reason not to chance dancing with planes on the surface. Machine guns should not really cause any major problems unless your crew are in the open. The bonus is the varying damage you will now get from the shells as they will travel and should cause more internal damage and flooding as well as heavey hull loss.

All in all did you feel that it is getting better or do you think we maybe wasting better spent time? I personally feel it is better but I will use my exact crew configuration and settings also.

Feel free to shout out ideas and I will give you a answer if it is possible or not.

:up: :up:

[Jungman]

Attempted to man flag gun but found gun unable to elevate even tho repaired earlier-status read "functional" (I guess this means it's partially fixed but not 100%)

If I may make an observation that is in line with what was said about trying to man the flak gun after it was repaired but the elevation would not work. That also happen to me (in what I am doing). Plus I repaired a compartment to 100% fixed, but I was not able to place an officer into the slot, claiming it was destroyed. I was able to place men into it though and it funtioned.

Now this is stuff I am working on, but I also am using about 400 Health Points for compartment areas in Zones.cfg. A strange effect comes from this fact. In Zones.cfg if you raise the Health Points up too much, the damage that occurs is cumulative over the whole time and is remembered in secret by the game. So even though you repair the compartment, the game thinks it is destroyed and in the case of the Flak gun (even the periscope did this) it never gets 100% repaired even though it displays OK functional. the game engine is confused. It does not happen all the time, but enough if you get hit real good.

I tell you this so it may help you out. That is why I was trying with modest armor levels and more smaller HP increase. Example, if you have a compartment at 200 stock HP, then set for say 450, after I take damage over several hits and repair more than 200 'points worth' of damage, the game engine gets alittle wierd (It thinks it is 'half' destroyed).

I was not able to place an officer into the compartment. This was on the Stern Torp station and the Stern Quarters. Also a repair made to the Flak gun, I was not able to use it, all I could do was swivel around horizontal, no vertice movement allowed. So I decided to stick with the difficult balancing act of the modest health point increase and modest change to armor.

I do not know if this info is any help to you. It is a sticking point for me that I noticed in my findings. I do not mean to offend or bother you. Just trying to help. I ran into these nasty little bugs that crop up in my own studying of having too high of Health Points.

@ The options to turn on/off fast repairs possible bug; Is it stuck on fast? Seems to make no difference, needs more looking at.

@ The Stern Torp and rear areas of Uboat tends to get hit more often because you are usually moving forward ahead of the dropping DC and it will tend to hit in the rear of the Uboat area.

[HEMISENT]

Gouldjg
The test mission report I just sent was using your fatigue model included in download. To be honest there is no read me or text with the pre release test mod so I don't really know what to expect from or how to manage the crew in your fatigue mod. The discussions between yourself and Jungman over the fatigue issue has me very confused so right now I'm just winging it. I'm on my fourth mission and so far everything seems ok. They have all been very short missions tho as I'm actively looking to get damaged and or killed.

I did 1 test campaign mission using SH3 Commander simply to see if it would work. No reason to think otherwise but just wanted to confirm it.
For that 1 mission only:
SH3 Commander settings=
RUB fatigue enabled-because I'm most familiar with it & to compare
Water density = 18 (I wanted to see the impacts clearly)
Days in base = 1
Thats pretty much the only Commander settings I used for testing purposes
Personally I think that what's been accomplished so far in the area of damage control is nothing short of fantastic. I've been playing this game since it first came out. What Beery's RUB mod has done for gameplay this damage mod is doing for immersion and intensity. There is no such thing as time compression here. Once the boat is hit the player is married to it. Constantly moving repair crew around, figuring out what compartments have priority over others plus conning the boat during attack. I've found just keeping the boat from sinking like a stone is a great way to kill an hour or so.

Also, heres a list of mods that are working out perfectly with the Hollywood pro. I enabled these for this 4th test mission.
In order using JSGME:
RUB1.44
Harbor Traffic 1.46
Hollywood Pro
Improved Convoys
Restore Gods Eye view
Single Ship Contact
RWR 16km Sensors
U Mark
Nav Tools
Dark TDC
Dark Crew Screen
Transparent Console
Mil Mod-1 thru 6
Map
Leigh Lights Mod
Internal Life v1.2
Cloud fix
I realize many of these are eyecandy mods but some people like to know what works with what before installing a fresh mod.
I did not enable the Airpower mod as there is still a conflict but I think I have it figured out. I may want to run it by Rubini as I got it from him directly when I had a problem with his HT mod earlier.

Hope this helps a bit.

[Jungman]

Sorry for the confusion HEMISENT, I will blog information on another thread. What do I know anyway. :roll:

[gouldjg]

I am going to do ome tests and if in fact it is weid with no armour then I will up the armur values slightly.

I am not so worried about flak guns or periscopes being semi broken even after repairs, thats a good effect if any.

I am worried if it effects the ability to place crew in compartment slots though and if this is the case I will balnce armour.

I have just not experienced this part of it.

I will be tweaking all this today and then try and seperate the Damage so that it works well with most fatigue models.

I was thinking that maybe the compartments could just be reconnected to the Hull i.e. the -1 figure. Then just do the subs armour values slightly and see the effects.

Here goes another 50 tests :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[gouldjg]

Attempted to man flag gun but found gun unable to elevate even tho repaired earlier-status read "functional" (I guess this means it's partially fixed but not 100%)

If I may make an observation that is in line with what was said about trying to man the flak gun after it was repaired but the elevation would not work. That also happen to me (in what I am doing). Plus I repaired a compartment to 100% fixed, but I was not able to place an officer into the slot, claiming it was destroyed. I was able to place men into it though and it funtioned.

Now this is stuff I am working on, but I also am using about 400 Health Points for compartment areas in Zones.cfg. A strange effect comes from this fact. In Zones.cfg if you raise the Health Points up too much, the damage that occurs is cumulative over the whole time and is remembered in secret by the game. So even though you repair the compartment, the game thinks it is destroyed and in the case of the Flak gun (even the periscope did this) it never gets 100% repaired even though it displays OK functional. the game engine is confused. It does not happen all the time, but enough if you get hit real good.

I tell you this so it may help you out. That is why I was trying with modest armor levels and more smaller HP increase. Example, if you have a compartment at 200 stock HP, then set for say 450, after I take damage over several hits and repair more than 200 'points worth' of damage, the game engine gets alittle wierd (It thinks it is 'half' destroyed).

I was not able to place an officer into the compartment. This was on the Stern Torp station and the Stern Quarters. Also a repair made to the Flak gun, I was not able to use it, all I could do was swivel around horizontal, no vertice movement allowed. So I decided to stick with the difficult balancing act of the modest health point increase and modest change to armor.

I do not know if this info is any help to you. It is a sticking point for me that I noticed in my findings. I do not mean to offend or bother you. Just trying to help. I ran into these nasty little bugs that crop up in my own studying of having too high of Health Points.

@ The options to turn on/off fast repairs possible bug; Is it stuck on fast? Seems to make no difference, needs more looking at.

@ The Stern Torp and rear areas of Uboat tends to get hit more often because you are usually moving forward ahead of the dropping DC and it will tend to hit in the rear of the Uboat area.

Right I have just experienced this not being able to move crew memebr to a slot scenario.

Very weird as no damage was reported with this compartment on my first DC attack run.

Damage was reported in stern torp but was minor.

Bye the way this was with armour values added back so it is either something completely different i.e. a game bug or it must be what you suspected and be the compartment hp.

I am going to get a vannilla zones cfg and start a complete new build but try not to effect the HP of compartments too much. I will then later add all the plane and ship settings that have already been done. Maybe the current Zones cfg has gone through that many changes for previous versions, it is best to start a fresh model i.e. the -1 number etc.

I will stick with RUB DC ranges and sonar nerfs amd see what pops up.

Will report back later.

[HEMISENT]

The part about not being able to man a compartment by an officer appearing to be fully operational but listed as "destroyed" I think is a game bug. This scenario has plagued me from the very beginning. If I recall correctly this has happened to me very rarely but still goes back to pre-Hollywood, pre-RUB days. Now that files are being modified I find it happening more frequently but still for me anyway it's merely an annoyance. I've found that it usually occurs in the aft crew quarters.

BTW this fourth test patrol is a bummer. Nothing but single merchants so far. I tried to aggravate a destroyer last night but he was having no part of it and just kept going. Cannot find anyone to shoot at me....Maybe I'll head for Gibralter on the surface with only the cook standing watch.

[gouldjg]

The part about not being able to man a compartment by an officer appearing to be fully operational but listed as "destroyed" I think is a game bug. This scenario has plagued me from the very beginning. If I recall correctly this has happened to me very rarely but still goes back to pre-Hollywood, pre-RUB days. Now that files are being modified I find it happening more frequently but still for me anyway it's merely an annoyance. I've found that it usually occurs in the aft crew quarters.

BTW this fourth test patrol is a bummer. Nothing but single merchants so far. I tried to aggravate a destroyer last night but he was having no part of it and just kept going. Cannot find anyone to shoot at me....Maybe I'll head for Gibralter on the surface with only the cook standing watch.

I now think it is a game bug and nothing to do with the mod

We are just noticing it because I have run 100 tests and jungman probably run 200.

It is definetly is not an armour issue thats for sure.

[HEMISENT]

Gouldjg
Dec 4 1941
Grid BF14 approach to Irish Sea
Approx 19:00
Dark, heavy seas, visibility good
Came upon a single Tribal class DD head on.
Crash dive to 80m, Silent Running directly under DD-no response
secure SR- no response, request nav do multiple pimgs for depth-no response. turn on gramaphone-no response.(??????)
Surfaced, reverse course directly for DD @ 1/3 speed-ship changed course so I figured I got his attention and took the boat down, he began dc'ing an area 2000m away. I ordered surface at full speed, changed course to intercept-
19:17 finally closed to within 1500m DD noticed me and got off 3 - 4 rounds as I crash dived. Using outside view I observed no hits to boat.
Stern compartment again took damage. Immediately went orange. Tube 5 & decoy launcher damaged, compartment flooding. Repair team in compartment at work.
19:22 all repairs completed/flooding stopped/compartment operational.
DD is dc'ing an area 1000m to my NW. Changed depth to 40m/course to 323 heading toward DD. No SR. ahead 1/3. At one point I was running parallel with DD 300m off stbd bow pinging for depth and gramaphone playing-DD has no clue. Increased speed to ahead std and departed area leaving the destroyer behind-good riddance.

Heading to Irish Sea.

1. I'm now convinced the stern compartment is too vulnerable. Shell explosions were clean misses 3 - 10m away from boat.
2. I have either run into the most verklempt destroyer crew on the planet or could there be something amiss in the area of detection. To be honest this is the only time I've run into a situation like this. I did enable the 16km mod for this mission. I do not want to disable it but I may need to if you think something is in conflict. Perhaps this is why I cannot get enemy warships to notice me-however I'm only guessing here.

[gouldjg]

Hi

I have changed back to armour though it is still very light class armour.

I have re-added the -1 to re-connect compartments back to the hull.

I am re-setting the stern torpedo room to be a lttle more resilient.

As far as DD detecting I am a little unsure which sensors file to use.

I want a harder one than RUB because it is simply too easy to escape on the 505 mission.

If I remember correctly it was a late elite DD that had a perm hook on the player so a tweak had to be made.

Now I understand Orgy got rid of elite DDs and newbie DDs. I personally like the idea of what he had done but am not sure on the science between all these DD detection rates.

To be honest I think it maybe time for those involved to review and hopefully explain the problems.

I know Jungmann is working on getting some sensors upto date.


I am starting a new thread to see if I can get anything to work with in the future or to confirm what others are doing on this Issue.

[HEMISENT]

Yes, I agree the stern compartment is the last area above water in a dive and obviously its the most vulnerable but right now it seems a little bit too fragile. Other than that everything is working out great.
I just wrapped up this fourth test mission. On the way home I ran into a convoy. Absolutely nothing I did could get the escorts to pay any attention to me so this was not a fluke with the verklempt destroyer from earlier.
I'm going to disable the 16km mod right now and try it again. Overall this mission was pretty much a bust except for my thinking the stern area being too vulnerable.

[gouldjg]

I now think some of the weird experience people have had coul be related to things being set as destructible in the zones.cfg

I know from previous test that these type of tweaks caused problems going back to the first Hollywood. I set some things as destructible and ended up with a cloaked sub.

I think the stern torpeod had ammo cargo and that was part of the fault with easy damage.

At the moment I am setting much of the zones.cfg close the the vannilla except for the flooding and hull changes. I have halved the armour values abd am just running some test.

This would all be much better if the late elite DDs could not drop such accurate DCs.

I was even considering changing the ranges so that they had to be very close before any serious damage occured but then again I alway give the DD the slip easy and sometimes wonder if many players simply do not monitor and evade fast enough when under attack.

The results have been good as far as thrill factor when I have had heavy flooding. It is good not to crush at 70 metres unless I walked directly into line of DCs.

It is even better when you get hit at 170 mtres and try to fight back up before your hull breaches.

The repairs have been prolonged better but I am afraid thats the best we are going to get. There will never be Hour long repairs unless we got rid of all qualifications which would make the game a little drab.


I am just a little concerned about the DD bahaviour and will maybe try some vannilla games to see differences.

I am just hoping that things have not been so nerfed that it is now becoming a counter productive scenario.

I am just waiting for the latest RUB and Sh3 commander and will be comparing much tommorow.

[HEMISENT]

Gouldjg
Just started a fresh test campaign mission w/o 16km. Jan 1944/Bordeaux
I figure the chance of getting hit is increased considerably.
So far the"thrill factor" is way up in my opinion.

[Salvadoreno]

comparing damage models and crew management to NYGM and this, whose is more realistic???

I was digging in some archives and found this post, looks greaaT! any updates??

[HEMISENT]

Gouldjg hasn't been heard from for some time now.
I use the Hollywood damage mod and the crew mgt works great. There are a number of different fatigue versions you can choose from to fit your own style.
Haven't tried the NYGM version yet but if its anything like the rest of the NYGM family you can be sure it's well thought out.

[Church SUBSIM]

I can not believe I missed this mod ... just sort of returned to playing a few weeks ago.

I take it this does for sub damage what NYGM Ship Sinking does for merchants and escorts? I assume then you can use both together?

[Tikigod]

I can not believe I missed this mod ... just sort of returned to playing a few weeks ago.

I take it this does for sub damage what NYGM Ship Sinking does for merchants and escorts? I assume then you can use both together?

Yes, it does church....and yes you can add NYGM stuff on top if its not related to files....Im only using NYGM crew fatigue im not sure about air power and other stuff....the ship damage one works too....but, I'm waiting to add all that when his Tonage thing comes out.

Here is a collection of all the fatigue models I put together so far.....(this file is for commander so you can select different crew fatigue models)

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=453928&highlight=#453928

hollywood has its own configured for its own hull settings just liek the NYGM one so you might not get the optimal reactions you want unless you switch around the files it asks you to install in readme.... I'm using NYGM's right now...which i really like because they get alot more tired in long run....so you can actually see a livened crew when you first start missions and exhausted crew when they return....

you should try the Hollywood Advanced for RUB and IUB....its really good one from this series....the advanced includes a feature where it might take days to repair stuff instead of minutes or a few hours....and if you use its crew fatigue they tire quickly when they work hard jobs like torpedoes or reapair....the NYGM seems to do the same from what I can tell using the Hollywood stuff..

Does anyone know where to get a copy of this Hollywood Pro? Is Pro before or after Advanced Hollywood? these naming systems are getting confusing....I like to stick with version 1, 2, 3 4, 4b, etc because then I can use my fingers to figure out what version we are at...

[Church SUBSIM]

Fantastic .... thanks Tiki ...

Yes I am loving the NYGM Fatigue system too. I think I liked the pervious version of the Ship Sinking Mod (.36 over .39). Man this sim has come a *long way*

[Spent]

I cant download it, rapidshare says inactivity time exceeded.(The hollywood pro mod)

[VonHelsching]

I cant download it, rapidshare says inactivity time exceeded.(The hollywood pro mod)

Try downloading from www.u-boot.realsimulation.com
Go to general sh3 downloads an search for Holywood Advanced for RuB IuB

Bear in mind that it is NOT very JSGME ready. You have to put all files (except SH3cmdr folder) under a "data" folder and then JSGME-it.

If you use any NYGM mods or any other mod that affect the zones.cfg, just copy and paste the U-boat section of Holywood's zones.cfg, delete Holywood's zones.cfg and then JSGME (used as a verb :-j ).

Personally I don't use neither RuB nor IuB, so I made some small modifications to suit my system. I have also made some "intensity" tweaks to zones.cfg in the framework of the Die Hard Mod and some other tweaks that you will have to discover them yourself while being DC'd...

If you or someone else wants it, I can put a Rapidshare link. But on a different thread. I don't want to hijack gouldjg's thread.


This is by far the best mod I've ever seen. Too bad gouldjg or Jungman are not around to tell us the progress (if any) of the Holywood Advanced Damage / Die Hard Project...

[gouldjg]

I still lurch around but cannot touch any game for the next few months at least due to circumstances. (It kills me but has to be done) (no I am not in prison)

If you look at the new Greywolves mod, these guys took off and have added a hell of a lot of other stuff since.

I very much appreciate you respecting the thread etc but the plain truth is that I had to take off (yet again), so this leaves everything to do with Hollywood in the hands of any person whom knows how to change it but keep to the original aim. There were many competent people in the Greywolves team so I thought it best to stay offline for a while and leave it to them cos I could not afford the time to help them further.

I cannot return to the game till June (then I will play for a solid year).

Please ensure that any kudos goes to the lads who done Greywolves as they took charge of unnfinnished work from my part and turned it into a better product.

I don't really deserve my name in their credits but it was nice of them to put it in even though they finnished off and improved the damage aspects beyond what I could have done in the time scale.

[HEMISENT]

Gouldjg, nice to hear from you again. Glad to hear your ok. Its good your not in prison.
I never heard of greywolves mod

[VonHelsching]

Master gouldjg,

We've never talked before, but out of respect, just two words from me.

The CONCEPT of a new idea is priceless.

Especially like the Advanced Holywood, which created a new game for me. (I find myself trying to make noise just to be DC'd and see what happens)

It must cost a lot to be away of this game. See you in June then!

VonHelsching

[HEMISENT]

Master gouldjg,

Especially like the Advanced Holywood, which created a new game for me. (I find myself trying to make noise just to be DC'd and see what happens)
VonHelsching

I thought I was the only one who intentionally was looking to get clobbered after this mod.