View Full Version : RuB vs. IuB - some compromise?
Keelbuster
11-02-05, 06:54 PM
I've tried both Rub and IuB. And, they differ in a lot of ways, even though IuB incorporates much of RuB. In the end, I would rather stick with RuB, mainly because I prefer the realism: the way the hydrophone contacts and map contacts are handled (more ambiguously). The graphics are also a little prettier to my blurry eye. IuB has a lot of nice features, like the port traffic, radio messages, some graphics upgrades, etc, but not enough for me to lose that strategic uncertainty that keeps me progressively guessing a task force's path. While there seems to be some tension between these two mod communities (at least as far as forum postings can show), I think they are both totally awesome efforts to make a great game better, and I applaud them both equally.
For people who are not deep into the modding details, it has been a great help to be able to install a bulk mod that has been tested and groomed by those who know.
Now,
I was wondering if there will be a RuB 1.45? If so, is there any interest in addressing the visibility/draw distance issue? IuB has an extended draw distance. I think it's a bit much because the graphics were not designed to look good at 16, 20 km. On the other hand, it is a really cool idea that changes the gameplay quite a bit. Any thoughts on this issue? Would it not provide a more realistic Uboat experience?
I am all for the effort to make SH3 as realistic as possible while preserving its beauty. And it's great that this clever community of modders has taken in upon itself to see that this happens, now that Ubi is out of the picture. Ubi did most of the work and now you guys are finishing it for them. I think though that some compromise could be made in order to integrate these two awesome mod collections (IuB and RuB), and create an optimal final package
I like RuB 1.44 for realism, but would consider adding:
- draw/detection distance increase (somewhere between 8 and 16 clicks) + associated graphical upgrades to accomodate this. I've read that this would be more realistic than the 8 or so found in 1.44. This is my main interest - the ones that follow are less important, but considerable?
- a harbour traffic increase of some kind - not excessive, but more that 1.44
- more radio traffic mod
- milkcows? - not sure - maybe patrol are best left simple
- advanced smoke? - i kinda liked it - looked hotter to me
Any thoughts, you salty kriegslovers?
KB
Marhkimov
11-02-05, 06:59 PM
An 'uber' mod is a great idea in theory, but in reality it ain't gonna' happen... Sorry for the splash of truth...
And if you have the quality system to run it, the atmospheric mod (16km) should suit your needs quite nicely. It's a little more current than the visiblility provided by IUB.
Another option is to go through the read me for IUB carefully and then pick out which files you prefer and create your own personal "compromise". That's what I'm in the process of doing with IUb. I prefer a few things and am trying to make my version of SH3 exactly how I like it. Tough work, especially the part of relaoding SH3 to view the differences. That is looooong.
Marhkimov
11-02-05, 09:32 PM
Another option is to go through the read me for IUB carefully and then pick out which files you prefer and create your own personal "compromise". That's what I'm in the process of doing with IUb. I prefer a few things and am trying to make my version of SH3 exactly how I like it. Tough work, especially the part of relaoding SH3 to view the differences. That is looooong.
Actually, I prefer to do the same as P_Funk. Pick and use only what you want. Just because certain files are included in RUb does not mean that you have to use them. Taking apart RUb and IUB is even made simpler because they give you detailed descriptions of what each and every file does.
Firstly, thanks for your kind words about RUb.
...I like RuB 1.44 for realism, but would consider adding:
- draw/detection distance increase (somewhere between 8 and 16 clicks) + associated graphical upgrades to accomodate this. I've read that this would be more realistic than the 8 or so found in 1.44. This is my main interest - the ones that follow are less important, but considerable?
It would be good if we could have better visibility, but there are some drawbacks with the visibility mod that haven't been addressed to my satisfaction. Night vision is one, and some people have reported slow framerates.
- a harbour traffic increase of some kind - not excessive, but more that 1.44
The Harbour Traffic mod used to be in RUb, but manypeople felt it was too populous and too arcade-ish, with lots of traffic and aircraft. Although I liked the concept of the Harbour Traffic mod, I had to agree with these concerns.
- more radio traffic mod
RUb 1.45 will have radio traffic.
- milkcows? - not sure - maybe patrol are best left simple
There are serious problems with the Milk Cow mod. One of which is that if you stop at a milk cow your patrol ends and another one starts. This maynot be a big problem for some, but for those of us who use SH3 Commander it looks a bit odd in the patrol history. I prefer SH3 Commander's Milk Cow mod - it's abstract, but it works fully within what SH3 will allow without messing up the patrol report.
- advanced smoke? - i kinda liked it - looked hotter to me
I prefer the standard game's smoke. But if you don't, why not just add it on top of RUb?
The Avon Lady
11-03-05, 08:22 AM
I hope the radio traffic isn't overdone. My TC gets dropped down to 1x whenever a radio msg comes in.
Uhm, people do realise that there's an "Option" mini-mod included with IuB v101 called "RealUBoatDefaults" that restores RuB settings for
*sonar lines
*map contacts
*u-boat marker
*command icons
*certain misc settings like crew only engage aircraft to 500m
...Right?
Just enable via JSGME after IuB.
Also, I'm sure Beery knows better, but I believe there's an RuB 1.45 on the way. IuB v102 might be out soon as well, if I can tidy up a few things.
Beery, when will be available RUb 1.45?
New SH3Commander 2.3 will be released this weekend.
RUb1.45 will be available very soon. I may release it this weekend in conjunction with SH3 Commander. After that, version 1.5 will be the last RUb mod. That one will be ready by Christmas.
Fantastic news, Beery! :)
Will RUb 1.5 make SH3 perfect uboot's simulator ever made?
PS. Do you plan to include 16KM visibility mod or not?
I just wanted to drop a note in this thread to say "thanks" to Beery for RUb and SH3 Commander. I can't imagine playing SH3 without 'em, and I really appreciate all of the hard work and consideration that has gone into these mods. I think you've definately struck a fantastic balance between simulation and fun.
On a related note, there's been some discussion of the visibility mod in future versions of RUb. I would be in favor of it, but only if it can easly be set back to default either through SH3 Commander or through simple text file edits. I've got SH3 running beautifully at 1680x1050 (which leaves me wondering why the devs didn't include these resolution options! -- I get much better performance than in most games) but I would imagine that the extended visibility might have a big impact on fps.
Fantastic news, Beery! :)
Will RUb 1.5 make SH3 perfect uboot's simulator ever made?
PS. Do you plan to include 16KM visibility mod or not?
If a 16k visibility mod is made that solves the night vision problem, then it will be included in RUb (assuming its author allows it to be included).
gouldjg
11-03-05, 02:00 PM
Fantastic news, Beery! :)
Will RUb 1.5 make SH3 perfect uboot's simulator ever made?
PS. Do you plan to include 16KM visibility mod or not?
If a 16k visibility mod is made that solves the night vision problem, then it will be included in RUb (assuming its author allows it to be included).
Please Please Please do a 8km version as well though,
I am a poor man who has to wait for a super Gfx card. Priorities have to take presedent so she says. :cry:
:up: :up:
8km version will be better than stock, but it will be the best to include both versions for choose.
Heffalump
11-03-05, 04:47 PM
Is the Ops Mod dead? It seems to me the main thing missing are a lot of historical operations. The last time I looked in the editor (1.43) there wasn't a D-day yet for example.
Marhkimov
11-03-05, 04:50 PM
Is the Ops Mod dead? It seems to me the main thing missing are a lot of historical operations. The last time I looked in the editor (1.43) there wasn't a D-day yet for example.
Personally, I don't mind. Even if there was a D-Day in ops mod, I wouldn't go there to check it out. I don't feel like alterring history. Same goes for other historical events: I don't find them very necessary.
But that's just me...
Is the Ops Mod dead? It seems to me the main thing missing are a lot of historical operations. The last time I looked in the editor (1.43) there wasn't a D-day yet for example.
As far as I can tell, the Ops mod is indeed dead.
rulle34
11-03-05, 07:21 PM
As far as I can tell, the Ops mod is indeed dead.
Hello Beery
That was really sad news. This was something I have been waiting for
8km version will be better than stock, but it will be the best to include both versions for choose.
Hello Jaxa
Isn't 8 km same as stock? If not, what is stock visibility?
Hartmann
11-03-05, 07:30 PM
Thanks beery :up:
About the visibility mods I have a 16 km mod on top of Rub, and the night visibility detection ranges are not perfect , but enough for me to play with it.
I think that 8 km is the same as deffault game. what fixes the 8 km version ?? :doh:
Hello rulle34!
I thought that 8km version is different than stock version. :hmm:
In my opinion the best solution is include the most realistic version.
As far as I can tell, the Ops mod is indeed dead.
Hello Beery
That was really sad news. This was something I have been waiting for
I think "dead" is a little bit harsh, since virtually all our work has made it into RUb in one way or another, just more discretely. It is a shame we never got to do things like, say, work in more non-European ports and look over single traffic - but when you consider how ops and related projects have contributed to SHIII's campaign structure, progress has indeed been made.
Some people have worked on historical events already; I wish they'd put them into separate, easily-merged files that could be added on to any campaign file for easy use. That way, these could be added to RUb, HT, or any other campaign mod that uses the campaign files. Perhaps someone could come up with a nice campaign file management utility that'd allow merging things in with ease.
Anyway, the real issue with Ops is the fact that the team simply can't work more - some, like Sailor Steve, because they don't have proper access to the internet; others, like Egan, because they've simply done what they could and have really run out of enthusiasm for further work; and then me (and I hope I'm not alone) who simply doesn't have time to do it anymore.
There's always opportunities though. If I suddenly end up having some time in december, perhaps I'll try to bring in a few things for RUb 1.5, but by then we might not have enough time to test those for release.
Anyway, the important thing is that RUb's campaign has absorbed the work that's been done within the Ops mod, and there's always ways to add on to it. :)
I think "dead" is a little bit harsh...
I didn't mean that the whole thing was dead. There is a whole lot of Ops in RUb. What I meant was that it looks like further development is dead. No one on the Ops team had responded to my message on the SH3 Mod Team forums, so I assumed that the team had gone on to other things. Sorry if what I said implied that Ops was entirely 'vapourware'. That wasn't my intention. It's just that the Ops mod created a nice base for historical operations, but very few (if any) actual operations (meaning the task forces) were completed.
I think "dead" is a little bit harsh...
I didn't mean that the whole thing was dead. There is a whole lot of Ops in RUb. What I meant was that it looks like further development is dead. No one on the Ops team has responded to my message on the SH3 Mod Team forums, so I assumed that the team had gone on to other things. Sorry if what I said implied that Ops was 'vapourware'. That wasn't my intention.
I think we did respond, actually (didn't I and Egan, at least?)
I'd love for it to be alive, but I'm the only one of the team right now with any ability or interest to continue working on it, but my time is short and I've really been too junior a team member to really be able to take charge of it and say "continue!"
But hey, if anyone wants to help - I can tell you what still could be done in improving the campaign. :)
I think we did respond, actually (didn't I and Egan, at least?)
No one responded for nearly two weeks, so I stopped listening in for replies and just decided to do a bit more work on it. I just went back over there (after reading your post here) and found your responses. Sorry I missed them. I too have been finding it difficult to devote time to the game, so I tend to stop listening in on the forums as much. I certainly didn't mean any disrespect to the team.
Keelbuster
11-04-05, 06:14 PM
these mods are awesome. Can't wait for the next gens.
kb
Sailor Steve
11-04-05, 07:39 PM
Is the Ops Mod dead? It seems to me the main thing missing are a lot of historical operations. The last time I looked in the editor (1.43) there wasn't a D-day yet for example.
Personally, I don't mind. Even if there was a D-Day in ops mod, I wouldn't go there to check it out. I don't feel like alterring history. Same goes for other historical events: I don't find them very necessary.
But that's just me...
I've done a fairly accurate Evacuation Of Dunquerke, and have worked on and off on D-Day, but Marhkimov is right-for Normandy to be accurate you would see hundreds of landing ships and support vessels, but you would also have to slip through more than 80 destroyers to get there, and out again. Between June 6 and June 15 six U-boats were sunk in the region. No U-boats reported sinking any D-Day ships. Realistically, what's the point?
Functions as a barrier across the english channel, because it's unrealistic for nothing to be happening there?
Marhkimov
11-05-05, 01:01 PM
Anyways, the AI is not modelled very well in SH3. If we make ships for D-Day or whatever else, they'll probably just end up as u-boat fodder.
If you can get through the thick layers of dd's.
I'd actually model the DD's first and not bother with the transports in too much detail.
BTW Sailor Steve if you have some operations modelled, it would be quite cool if you could release them!
Sailor Steve
11-05-05, 01:07 PM
I would very much like to, but monetary considerations forced me off line. To post I currently have to go to the local library.I can't even download the latest SHIII Commander at present. :cry: I should be back online soon, or at least have a USB card that will let me transport data to the library for uploading.
On the other hand, my minefields did make it into the Ops Mod, and therefore RUB, but there has been some comment that they could have been done a lot better; so perhaps I'm not the best candidate to be doing things like this.
Well, we all try our best so I wouldn't worry about it.
Hope you get back online soon.
On the other hand, my minefields did make it into the Ops Mod, and therefore RUB, but there has been some comment that they could have been done a lot better; so perhaps I'm not the best candidate to be doing things like this.
Who made such comments? I'll ritually slaughter them and I'll have their balls for beads!
Heffalump
11-06-05, 04:57 AM
I've done a fairly accurate Evacuation Of Dunquerke, and have worked on and off on D-Day, but Marhkimov is right-for Normandy to be accurate you would see hundreds of landing ships and support vessels, but you would also have to slip through more than 80 destroyers to get there, and out again. Between June 6 and June 15 six U-boats were sunk in the region. No U-boats reported sinking any D-Day ships. Realistically, what's the point?
I think people shouldn't feel the pressure to have every operation modeled perfectly. It makes tasks so daunting that they never get finished.
A good start is simply 3 escort carrier ASW groups near Ushant, an English Channel swarming with escorts, and extremely heavy traffic moving between the south coast of england and the bay of seine. I don't think we really need thousands of ships.
I made it to for the first time with a career to 6/44 and just had to model D-Day for the fun of it. After all it was, operationally, an important event ... even if a complete disaster for the U-boat force. I'm still playing it .. and having a lot of fun ... although I shall likely be dead soon.
My model is not complete. But so what? I'll play it till the end, touch it up a little (I'd like to add the breakout of the German destroyers from Brest), and perhaps release it in case anyone wants to go further with it. I'd encourange anyone else to do the same.
My model is not complete. But so what? I'll play it till the end, touch it up a little (I'd like to add the breakout of the German destroyers from Brest), and perhaps release it in case anyone wants to go further with it. I'd encourange anyone else to do the same.
Is it compatible with RUb/IUb? The problem we're running into at the moment is that the major mods all have very complex campaign layer files, and it's virtually impossible to incorporate new mods if they take the standard game's campaign layer as their base.
I'll second what Beery says!
We could have a very full and historical campaign file if everyone submitted their work and documented exactly what they did. Of course, the work would then be integrated into Rubini's HT mod (I speak for IuB anyway, this is the SCR layer thats used)
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