Patrol start date turned back (SH3Cmdr+RUB+HT1.46)

[Georg_Unterberg]

Sometimes I have a problem with the start date of a campaign which I couldn't track down yet. I try to explain what I did and what happened.
(I have set the days to remain in base fixed to 1 with SH3Cmdr 2.2 - due to milkcow compatibility with Rubini's fantastic HT1.46. the number of days for upgrading an emblem was set in basic.cfg to 14 days as suggested by Rubini)

What I did:
- ended my patrol #7 at 17/Dec/1940
- in base I did the crew promotions and medals
- after that I upgraded the emblem 'twice' to get 28 days rest
- the date counter jumps to 14/Jan/1941 - correct
- I exit SH3
- Starting SH3Cmdr I see that last patrol end is 17/Dec/1940 and the status is "in base before patrol #8" 14/Jan/1941 - correct
- Launching SH3 via Cmdr again and loading my campaign "in base before patrol #8 14/Jan/1941"
- replacing a missing mate due to SH3's crew transfers (nice feature!)
- adjusting torp load
- starting patrol 8 I see that the date is now 18/Dec/1940!
- after saving and trying to load a campaign I see that the prior savegame "in base before patrol#8" now has the same date 18/Dec/1940.

This has happened twice on my campaign now. Still trying to find out what has turned back the date. Any suggestions? I checked the basic.cfg in SH3-dir and both values were ok (NbdaysInBase=1, [SPECIAL2]; emblems DaysSpent=14)

My Mods: RUB1.44 - HT1.46 - Pascals effects - 16km visibility - Fubar's VIIc skin.

Does somebody know what I'm messing up here?
Danke Kameraden!

[JScones]

- Launching SH3 via Cmdr again and loading my campaign "in base before patrol #8 14/Jan/1941"
- replacing a missing mate due to SH3's crew transfers (nice feature!)
- adjusting torp load

When this career re-loaded in SH3, what was the date displayed in the main career window?

You say this has happened twice - has it happened *every* time under these circumstances?

I ask because I've found some strange behaviour exhibited by SH3 in regards to dates and I am gathering data in order to determine whether I should build a <sigh> bandaid in SH3Cmdr to overcome it. In some testing I have done recently, I took one career, copied it three times, started patrols in each, saved and exited all at around the same time, deleted the save patrols, then looked at the current career dates in SH3 and all were different! Hmmm...

[Georg_Unterberg]

Jscones,

I reloaded the savegame just after ending patrol#7 to verify and redid that again - same outcome:

- Launching SH3 via Cmdr again and loading my campaign "in base before patrol #8 14/Jan/1941"

after this i checked the date again to be sure and it says 14/Jan/1941.
After starting patrol#8 I'm in the boat back at 18/Dec/1940. This can be reproduced every time I reload after patrol #7.
I noticed it happened once earlier, I think before patrol#2, but I didn't went further into it, sorry. For some reason it did not happen again after that - I would have noticed. Until now.
(BTW the newsflash generated by SH3Cmdr is for december '40, the prior month, so that's correct too). The date gets messed up during patrol start.

[Georg_Unterberg]

I found out something:

If I choose an upgrade (for some days) right before launching the patrol, the date won't get messed up:

I reloaded on 14/Jan/1941. Now I choose a different emblem for 14 days - counter jumps to 28/Jan/1941. I start patrol: bang! - 28/Jan/1941!
next try I reloaded and choose a different flak (for 2 days) - bang! - I'm at 16/Jan/1941!

Changing torps does not work, because you don't spend a day on those.
Now I get the picture - on every other patrol I chose an upgrade of some kind before starting the next - except patrol#2 where I spend renown for qualified crew.
So if I advance the day counter before another patrol, I can prevent the date messup.

Does this help in some way?

[Marhkimov]

Will this recent discovery delay the release of SH3 Commander?

I hope not, as I've been looking forward to it for a while. :yep:

[JScones]

I found out something:

If I choose an upgrade (for some days) right before launching the patrol, the date won't get messed up:

I reloaded on 14/Jan/1941. Now I choose a different emblem for 14 days - counter jumps to 28/Jan/1941. I start patrol: bang! - 28/Jan/1941!
next try I reloaded and choose a different flak (for 2 days) - bang! - I'm at 16/Jan/1941!

Changing torps does not work, because you don't spend a day on those.
Now I get the picture - on every other patrol I chose an upgrade of some kind before starting the next - except patrol#2 where I spend renown for qualified crew.
So if I advance the day counter before another patrol, I can prevent the date messup.

Does this help in some way?
Yes. Thanks for the analysis. This helps confirm a few theories of mine. I'm not sure that there is any workaround that I can build into SH3Cmdr to trap this scenario, as these dates are what SH3 writes to the career files: SH3Cmdr can only assume that they are right. Problem is, and I won't call this an SH3 bug because quite simply the SH3 Devs weren't thinking of SH3Cmdr when they developed SH3, but sometimes the wrong date gets written to the career files. It's fixed up/corrected the next time you run SH3, but SH3Cmdr has no way of knowing that it is wrong at the time. I have worked out some known instances when the date will be wrong, but I'm sure they are only a small few instances. Anyway, a wrong current career date is only distracting, as both SH3 and SH3Cmdr work off the last patrol end date.

What you have done, however, is raise something that *may* be considered an SH3 bug and is an extension to what I have found, and that is that even though you increased the days in base by 28 days prior to exiting the career, SH3 didn't recognise this the next time you loaded the Career. That, I think, is something different altogether, especially when it obviously *did* write the correct date to the career files (as demonstrated by the displayed date in SH3Cmdr). There may be a valid answer for this, but it's late, I've just finished work, so I'll think about it more over the weekend. Anyway, it seems that there is at least an interim solution to this problem.

I must admit that I have noticed a few date anomalies over the past week or so...

Will this recent discovery delay the release of SH3 Commander?
Nup, for reasons stated above. Release 2.3 will be available this weekend, pending teh results of testing of all of the new features.

[Georg_Unterberg]

Jscones,

thanks for taking the time to look into this date problem. It really is only a minor annoyance and I can live with the "upgrade-before-patrol"-workaround.
It really should not delay your next Cmdr version. I'm really looking forward to it!!
Thanks for an excellent tool!

[Rubini]

Hi mates,
JScones,

Rubini here.
I'm working with flotillas again to adjust some grids for milk cow and notice the same bug (start date) even using SH3 Cmdr 2.3. I also find another annoying issue, this time related to the grid destinations. Sometimes SH3 don't read the correct grid (as it is list on flotilla.cfg file). This messing with all modders who are working with flotillas. I and Berry have adding/changing some grid destinations to allow the player to meet some historical events or milk cow units (my work), which must happen only in a determinate month of a year. But SH3 sometimes just load a grid destination of another month. I guess that is related to the start dates bug describe above. I notice that sometimes SH3 loads the grid destination of the month when the patrols end and not the month when the new patrol will start. I don't know why. I thinked a lot about this annoying bug and guess that will be good if SH3 Cmdr could read these grid destinations info directly of the flotilla.cfg file, this way all the effort that we can do to adjust the flotilla.cfg file will be not lost.
I have some more few infos about these issues if you want to discuss this bug deeper.

Greetings,

Rubini.

[JScones]

Hi mates,
JScones,
Aren't I a mate too?? Just joking. :lol:

I've just replied to your PM. Hopefully, if we put our minds together (you, me, Beery and anyone else with observations) we can crack this one.

In *no* way am I pointing fingers (because I simply don't have the answer - just some facts), but the similarity we have found with this and the repeating patrol grid problem is that the affected users are all running the milk cow/HT mod. I don't run the milk cow mod and can honestly say that despite spending literally *hours* trying to replicate these problems, I haven't been able to. I have identified some patrol date "anomalies", but they are easily explained. So, if you have any other observations, pls share! I don't care where the problem is, I just want closure! :damn:

Anyway, I'll give some thought to having SH3Cmdr list the correct patrol grids to pick from (or even randomly select).

[Rubini]

Thanks JScones,

You are a special guy for SH3 community not only a mate! ;)

I already reply your PM. I'm playing the game a bit now and I will search for more info on this issue. I will test the game without HT/milk cow too.
If someone else have more info about this issue please post here.


Rubini.

[Lane]

Hi Rubine,
"Long time no see" As we say in America.

Your "OLD" Buddy
Lane :D

[Rubini]

Hi Lane,
Nice to meet with you again! :arrgh!:

Mates,
Yesterday after an entire day of tests i find the explications for the bugs and posted a PM for JScones that I will quote here:


Hi JScones,

After a entire day of observations these are my conclusions:

SH3 have two types of bugs here:
1. Bugs related to grid destination:
- The first bug happens when SH3 read the grid destination on flotillas.cfg file. SH3 read the grid relative to the month of the last finished patrol and not relative to the month of the next patrol. For example if your last patrol finish in march 12, 1940 and the next will begins in april 9, 1940 the grid that will be read is relative to march. Another example: if your last patrol finish for example in feb 20 and the next will start in april 8 (if you make a lot of upgrades like a new uboat) your next grid will relative to february even if your next patrol will start in april! This is important for the guys who intend to put some grid destinations to allow the player to meet some historical event. Now it's clear that is very possible that the player will not get the correct grid in the correct time...
- If you exit the game or career and later when you will load a saved career in home base you choose the "after patrol" you will get a yet more bugged grid destination in relation to the real month of the career (more one month late). This will not happens if you choose "before patrol" to load.

2. Bugs related to the career dates:
- For example let's "use" the stock game settings for days in base (28 days). Then if you made a upgrade that spent 3 days or even, let's say, 12 days when you start the new patrol you will only see 28 days spent. Sh3 don't add the days spent with the upgrades on the final number when the days spent with upgrades is less than the days in base setting.
But if you spent for example 40 days in upgrades (a new uboat and some other things) then when you start the new patrol you will see a addition of only 40 days and not 40+28 days.
- the worst moment is with the last alternative. If you spent more days in upgrades than your days in base settings then when you reload the "before patrol" saved you will return in time and your "new patrol" will only show /add the days in base settings, not the real days that you spent with upgrades!This way you will return to past!
For example: days in base=28. Last patrol finish in oct 10, 1940. you make a lot of upgrades. Changes the uboat. You spent 36 days. Then your new date will be oct 2 + 36 days=nov 7, 1940. Then later you load this "before patrol" saved. In the career page you see nov 7, 1940, ok. But when you start the patrol, in game you will see oct 2 + 28= oct 30, 1940! You are a time traveler!

So these are all stock bugs that also could happen to HT/milk, RUB and SH3 Cmdr. These issues with dates will be more noticeable when you use a small days in base settings which is true for milk cow and SH3 Cmdr (when the player use random days in base and gets a small number). The bug with grid destination is equal for all mods that need a precise grid destination.

Sorry for my english, this is a long post and is very difficult for me to write correctly. Hopes that you understand. If you need some better explanation just ask me. :up:

Rubini.

So all you guys be warned about these "new"' bugs. For the guys who use HT/milk cow and SH3Cmdr I suggest that you always "upgrade"with emblems after restart the game with SH3Cmdr. I will provide a list with all the correct grids for long patrol ( milk cow) to be used with Sh3Cmdr. As we see above all the hard work with flotillas from Beery and me will probably not work well in majority of times. The problem with repetitive grid destinations have the same origin here. Is a bug with dates that sometimes also appears when reload games in base.
I will swap more infos with JScones, perhaps we find some solution.

Rubini.

[Beery]

When it comes to the reason why the dates and destination grids get stuck - I think it has everything to do with the component (in this case emblem) upgrades pushing the date out well beyond the DaysSpentInBase-based next patrol start date. I think that's why the bug tends to happen with the HT mod and not with SH3 Commander. Since the HT mod includes milk cows, the game has to be run with a DaysSpentInBase value of 1. Add to that the fact that the milk cow mod requires players to use multiple emblem changes to advance the date and I think that's why we find all sorts of problems resulting from that. Possibly, what's happening is that the next patrol grid selection is based on an accumulation of DaysSpentInBase values rather than on the actual mission date, or it could be based on exactly how many upgrades are done at one time. I think that because the DaysSpentInBase value is much lower than the component upgrade delay value the game has trouble catching up with the date generated by the upgrade delay date advancement - so players will find that they get many missions with the same grid destination. Players using SH3 Commander will be much less affected, since the only time that the DaysSpentInBase value is low (early war) is a time when component upgrades are few and far between.

Let me make one thing clear. As far as I know, no one - not one person - has reported this bug while using SH3 Commander alone. It always seems to be tied to the use of the Milk Cow mod. As far as I'm concerned, this bug has nothing whatever to do with SH3 Commander. I'm not blaming the Milk Cow mod for it. The problem is caused by SH3 working in the crazy way that it does, but I think the way the Milk Cow mod manipulates the game is making the problem much more apparent.

[Rubini]

Yes, Beery, like I said it's more noticiable when you use a small days in base settings. But just changes your uboat in RUB (to spent more days then that setting in "daysinbase" entry). Bang! The date/grid bug will be there too if you reload the game in home base. Even for the stock, HT/milk cow, RUB or only with SH3Cmdr. It's another SH3 stock complex bug.

Rubini.

[Beery]

So I'm assuming this 'only' happens if you reload the game after doing some sort of upgrade? If that's the case, I guess we could avoid all problems if we only upgraded right before starting a patrol, and made sure we didn't upgrade before exiting the game. If the game didn't save 'in base before patrol Y' data, and if it would only allow us to load 'in game after patrol X' data we'd be fine. Is that right?

[Rubini]

Yes, it's exactly this. The problem is that SH3 read the dates of a saved patrol in base in a wrong way and after that just adds the "DaysinBase" numbers without observe the real days after a upgrade! But this is only one of the countless other bugs with dates and grids like I post above. Anyway these bugs are interconnect.

I already suggest a solution for JScones, but maybe, we can find yet a better way to correct this.

Rubini.

[Beery]

I wonder if Jaesen could do a work-around fix for this by simply having SH3 Commander automatically delete any 'before patrol' saves whenever SH3 Commander launches the game? I'm assuming that would solve the problems 100%, since it would prevent any upgrades from registering if players upgraded and then exited.

[Rubini]

My suggestion to Jaesen is almost the same. I only include a suggestion to allow SH3Cmdr to read the grid destinations (in a random way) directly into the flotilla.cfg file. This way the problems with wrong grid destinations will be fix too ("repetitive" ones and a "month delayed" bug).

Rubini.