Have your 3D model included into Silent Hunter III

[Der Teddy Bar]

Do you wish to be more attractive to the opposite sex? Are you seeking fame and fortune? If so, then look no further than this post!

But wait there is more, we will also throw in a set of ‘steak knifes’, yes it’s true. These steak knifes are worth less than the postage and handling that you will pay, but they are free!

Still interested? Then read on my dear reader!



Members of the original Silent Hunter III dev are offering up their free time to integrate your new 3D model into Silent Hunter III.

All models must be in a 3DS format with the maximum polygon count as listed below. There is to be one texture for each model and the texture is to be 1024x1024.


Battleships - 35,000 poly
Destroyers - 25,000 poly


Merchants
Small - 10,000 poly
Medium - 15,000 poly
Large - 20,000 poly


Planes - 3,500-4,000 poly


Merchant ships will get priority over more battleships and destroyers.

All submissions must be your own work. Do not use copyrighted work or models found on the internet. The developers will add the best models in the game and the mod-makers will be added to credits in the special thanks section.

Distribution of the community models will be made available via a patch as the new models will require ‘UnitType’ entires added into the various game files.

How to submit your model. E-mail your model file/s along with your name and/or nickname (important info so that YOU get credit for your model) to me at TeddyBar@SimHQ.com. I will then forward your model to the Dev Team.

Note: The original SHIII Dev Team have been moved onto various other projects and are offering their assistance to the community as they can in their own free time. It was Ubisofts decision not to make available a SDK for SHIII, the Dev Team are only employees. However, it is only through the grace of Ubisoft that the SHIII Dev Team have been able to make such generous offers. So let’s not get into ‘yer but they said’ etc, it will not change anything.

Let’s take this excellent opportunity and see where it leads us to.

[deckard]

aww, now you almost made me cry teddy, my god i wish i knew how to make 3d models :(

[The Avon Lady]

But wait there is more, we will also throw in a set of ‘steak knifes’, yes it’s true. These steak knifes are worth less than the postage and handling that you will pay, but they are free!
Ginsus? Ooooh! Ooooooh! Me want! Me want! :rock:
How to submit your model. E-mail your model file/s along with your name and/or nickname (important info so that YOU get credit for your model) to me
A while back, you were promoting a SimHQ SH3 Mod (http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=129;t=001433). Is there any connection?

Furthermore, since we're talking about a patch here, can we please find out what the patch's fix priorities are? Or will this patch only add new objects but not include any fixes? :-?

[Der Teddy Bar]

A while back, you were promoting a SimHQ SH3 Mod (http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=129;t=001433). Is there any connection? No connection, pure coincidence of timing.

Furthermore, since we're talking about a patch here, can we please find out what the patch's fix priorities are? Or will this patch only add new objects but not include any fixes? :-?There is no offical Ubisoft patch. The Dev Team are offering their assistance to the community as they can in their own free time. Other than that, let’s take this excellent opportunity and see where it leads us to.

[sergbuto]

I and friends of mine own some 3D models but they are not our original work. I guess I will have to use other means to import models to SH3. But it would make it easier if Devs could briefly describe the structure of ZON files and principles behind it.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

[/i]IF this is true....

:rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:

[oRGy]

Given that sansals pack3d tool exists now, it would as sergbuto be more useful for the devs to give good technical information on issues, as there are few original 3d models made so far that would have the right polycount, look, etc.

For example, I'd like to know whether there's anyway wind can influence particles in the game, or if you could make the sea slightly transparent, etc...

I'm also surprised that merchants are seen as more important than warships. A few more merchant types are definately needed, but only the RN has anything like a comphrensive ship list (and even then there's quite a few holes). Would also like to see British submarines - many of these attacked or were attacked by, U-Boats.

[Seeadler]

Where is the fun on this, modelling a new unit and then give it someone else and hope that he have the spare time to include it someday. :roll:

The true fun of modding is nevertheless the long time trial and error phase and finally the time when you can say, the break-through is mine. ;)

[Kpt. Lehmann]

I think for many reasons that it is important to be receptive to the Devs... no -telling where this might go. :up: :up: :up:

You know... one bit at a time.

[AG124]

I hope at least a couple of people consider this. Even if we don't get a fifth patch, maybe they would post the new models for download on the SH3 site. It will take a lot longer before we have a wealth of new ships available - may as well try to get some now.

[iambecomelife]

I don't know what to make of this. I appreciate the gesture, but it's fairly easy now for someone with rudimentary 3d modeling skills to add units to the game using the community-developed tools. What's more, it's easy to make said new units multiple skin, allowing for more diversity than we see with the one-skin vessels that the developers would be obligated to create.

Also, I'm probably the last person you'd expect to say this, but perhaps it would be best for warships to be given priority over merchants. Since military vessels are inherently more challenging projects it would be sensible for the devs and experienced modders to focus on them. As it is, several nations including Germany still lack several very important surface units, and merchants that can be kitbashed from existing .OBJ parts shouldn't impede their development.

[AG124]

I defenitely agree with that too - If the dev's are going to add some ships to the game for us, they should concentrate on warships, as community members have a better chance of adding merchants with the toold available.

The capital warships which should be given priority, IMO, are the

*Scharnhorst class battlecruiser/battleship.
*Deutchland class pocket battleship/heavy cruiser, (maybe a separate class for the other two, as they were different).
K class light cruiser.
Leipzig light cruiser

*Some Italian BB's, including Littorio class.
*Zara class CA.
Italian light cruisers.

*Renown class Battlecruiser.
Hood Battlecruiser.
*Courageous class Carrier.
*Ark Royal Carrier.
Eagle or Hermes carrier.

And some American and French warships - there are too many missing for me to suggest any.

Does anyone have any of these built from scratch?

Again, this is a very nice gesture from the dev team, especially if the are volunteering their own time. :up:

[Marhkimov]

Indeed, it is a very nice gesture from the devs. I only hope that it is a fully legitimate offer and that they are not going to pull our strings as they have done in the past (don't quote me on that). If they will really do what they say they are going to do, then two left-thumbs-up for them! :up: :up:

[Der Teddy Bar]

I and friends of mine own some 3D models but they are not our original work. I guess I will have to use other means to import models to SH3.
Of course any modified SHIII model would be OK to submit.

What do you mean own, as in we paid money for it and it is now our own?

I would presume that should you have written permission from the original artist, who could be contacted to verify that they are happy to have a modified version of their original work used, then I suspect that it would be OK.

it's fairly easy now for someone with rudimentary 3d modelling skills to add units to the game
It would be nice to see something that is obviously NOT a modified C2. Something that does not sink like a C2. As it is now, it is mind numbing with the small sample of merchant ships within the game.


In response to we must have more warships… This in my opinion only and in no way represents the opinion of the Dev Team...

This response is in now way designed to disparage you submitting a warship. I am not saying that you should not submit warships or that additional models should not get into the game.

What will give the greatest return on limited resources to the majority of players? For the greatest benefit and value for the majority it is merchant ships.

Will more warships make for more exciting patrols? No.
Will we see more 'warships' on patrol? No.
Will it make for better escorts? No.
How often does a player actually see a warship? Rarely, if at all.
Will it make for better game play seeing 3 variations of an aircraft carrier? No.
Will we see more sea battles with the additional warships? No.
Will having the entire German or Italian, or American navy modelled improve the game? No, for the reasons above.
What does not having the entire American navy modelled, take away from the game? Nothing.
What does not having ‘The HOOD’ modelled in the game take away from the gaming experience? Nothing.

So why spend a large portion of limited resources for something that in the end, for the majority of players, makes up less than 1% of the game? After all, I have only ever seen one task force and it was from over 5,000 metres away.

What will give the greatest return on limited resources to the majority of players? For the greatest benefit and value for the majority it is merchant ships.

Again, this response is in now way designed to disparage you submitting a warship. I am not saying that you should not submit warships or that additional models should not get into the game.

[Marhkimov]

Will more warships make for more exciting patrols? No.
Will we see more 'warships' on patrol? No.
Will it make for better escorts? No.
How often does a player actually see a warship? Rarely, if at all.
Will it make for better game play seeing 3 variations of an aircraft carrier? No.
Will we see more sea battles with the additional warships? No.
Will having the entire German or Italian, or American navy modelled improve the game? No, for the reasons above.
What does not having the entire American navy modelled, take away from the game? Nothing.
What does not having ‘The HOOD’ modelled in the game take away from the gaming experience? Nothing.

EXAAAACTLY!!! teddy bar says it waaaaay better than I could've ever put it... Well said! :up:

[AG124]

I'd rather see more merchants myself, but what Iambecomelife was saying (and I tend to agree) was that the community could add the merchants itself (as merchants are easier) and the dev team could handle harder warships.

Of course, if this is to be an official patch, maybe they specifically want merchants.

[CWorth]

We need more merchants...and if any warships make Allied ones.To heck with the German warships..I want ships to sink not just pretty models to look at when I sail by them.

[Cdre Gibs]

Myself, I have 1 foot in each camp, more Merchants and more Warships. Why? Because to me the world map still seems way to empty. The first thing I'd rather see is the KM Grid extended to cover the whole globe. Next to see all major sea ports included and ALL traffic from ALL ports moving around. For that we need BOTH.

I would luv to be able to get a posting to say Panag and hunt in the Far East. Take on some US & Australian shipping, or lay off the coast of Munsk and take the USSR apart. To get a mission that reqires me to do a vital resupply run to say Italy or Japan. In other words, more diversity. We have all these nations in game, why not use them, we do after all have the whole globe at our disposal.

The 1 thing that stands above all other games in SHII favour in my opinion, is that you have the whole world to play in, so lets start bloody usen it. I know this game is all about UBoats, but whos to say we have to only play in the Atlantic. Uboats made several long distance missions and some were posted to far flung places. A change is as good as a holiday after all. ;)

ATM my main project is fluffing out the main Navies that are some what limited - Germany, Italy and the USA for now. More to follow as time goes by. The reason I chose this as my project is because Serg, Ibecome are both doing a bloody wonderful job on Merchants and 1 more doing so seemed silly. So I have decided to do the warships. Hopefully between myself and Commander1980, and Serg an Ibecome, we may achieve enough shipping to keep every 1 happy.

If ppl want to submit bits to the dev's to be included sometime, when, maybe, down the track, IF they have the time, all good. But I cant see much coming of this anytime soon.

[TLAM Strike]

Would also like to see British submarines - many of these attacked or were attacked by, U-Boats. As Sergbuto posted around here a while ago, my S-Boat is available. (He posted some screenshots of it ingame, I don't know how far along he has gotten). The source files are on my website if anyone wants to add the unmodified sail the Brit and Polish ones had. The current model has the modified sail (with the forward AA Platform) the US boats in the Pacific had.

I expect my steak knifes and The Avon Lady to be sent to me in the mail soon. :-j

[Jotte]

Yes, more merchants would be most welcome. :up: :D :up:

[Seeadler]

The Devs already made the same offer in the May!
http://subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=35175

Where are now all the new models, which they got in the meantime?

Weren't these models good enough?

Or were these too good modelled and them come instead of into a free patch, in a commercial Ubisoft SH3 add-on or sequel?

Did the community designers receive a feedback from the devs about their models?

Did the Devs receive at all a model?

Oh yes, they must have gotten one, my fishing vessel! ...would have, because I never got a feedback about the model or at least an acknowledgement about the receive.

[Der Teddy Bar]

The Devs already made the same offer in the May!
http://subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=35175

Where are now all the new models, which they got in the meantime?

Weren't these models good enough?

Or were these too good modelled and them come instead of into a free patch, in a commercial Ubisoft SH3 add-on or sequel?

Did the community designers receive a feedback from the devs about their models?

Did the Devs receive at all a model?

Oh yes, they must have gotten one, my fishing vessel! ...would have, because I never got a feedback about the model or at least an acknowledgement about the receive.
I would suspect that they (the releveant Dev Team member/s) did not recieve any models from the community as you will note that there was not way of getting them to the Dev Team at that time.

In May, the SHIII Dev Team had mostly been split up. Some having been moved onto other projects, and in some cases they have left Ubisoft.

Let me clarify something. There is NO add on for SHIII, there is at this stage NO SHIV.

Guys, you need to understand, SHIII is a finished project for Ubisoft. Finished, no more patches and no add ons, nothing. I would not rule out a SHIV, but I am 99% sure that ther most likely will not be one anytime in the next few years.

[Seeadler]

I would suspect that they (the releveant Dev Team member/s) did not recieve any models from the community as you will note that there was not way of getting them to the Dev Team at that time.
Ubi_Marc, official Ubisoft community manager translated the model request from the Devs at the german SH3 forums and ask to send the models directly to the community manager team. That's the way I did but as said before, I got no feedback or anything else back from Ubisoft. :shifty:

[The Avon Lady]

Distribution of the community models will be made available via a patch as the new models will require ‘UnitType’ entires added into the various game files.
Question: can UnitType entries be defined for ships, even if their model files are not yet available?

This would allow for maximizing the potential UnitTypes now and adding new models in the future, should this "patch" be issued before every model we can think of has been developed.

Is this possible and preferable? :hmm:

[iambecomelife]

I and friends of mine own some 3D models but they are not our original work. I guess I will have to use other means to import models to SH3.
Of course any modified SHIII model would be OK to submit.

What do you mean own, as in we paid money for it and it is now our own?

I would presume that should you have written permission from the original artist, who could be contacted to verify that they are happy to have a modified version of their original work used, then I suspect that it would be OK.

it's fairly easy now for someone with rudimentary 3d modelling skills to add units to the game
It would be nice to see something that is obviously NOT a modified C2. Something that does not sink like a C2. As it is now, it is mind numbing with the small sample of merchant ships within the game.


In response to we must have more warships… This in my opinion only and in no way represents the opinion of the Dev Team...

This response is in now way designed to disparage you submitting a warship. I am not saying that you should not submit warships or that additional models should not get into the game.

What will give the greatest return on limited resources to the majority of players? For the greatest benefit and value for the majority it is merchant ships.

Will more warships make for more exciting patrols? No.
Will we see more 'warships' on patrol? No.
Will it make for better escorts? No.
How often does a player actually see a warship? Rarely, if at all.
Will it make for better game play seeing 3 variations of an aircraft carrier? No.
Will we see more sea battles with the additional warships? No.
Will having the entire German or Italian, or American navy modelled improve the game? No, for the reasons above.
What does not having the entire American navy modelled, take away from the game? Nothing.
What does not having ‘The HOOD’ modelled in the game take away from the gaming experience? Nothing.

So why spend a large portion of limited resources for something that in the end, for the majority of players, makes up less than 1% of the game? After all, I have only ever seen one task force and it was from over 5,000 metres away.

What will give the greatest return on limited resources to the majority of players? For the greatest benefit and value for the majority it is merchant ships.

Again, this response is in now way designed to disparage you submitting a warship. I am not saying that you should not submit warships or that additional models should not get into the game.

Do you really think people are that interested in Merchants? I'm NOT trying to be sarcastic at all; I'm honestly curious. :hmm: Whenever I talked to friends about WWII naval warfare I invariably got the impression that the average person is a lot more familiar with surface units and famous naval battles (Bismarck vs Hood, USS Arizona, the Juneau & Indianapolis tragedies, etc) than with cargo ships and convoy operations. I definitely agree that large warships are comparatively unimportant in Campaign mode. However, warships are quite important for the game's single missions - look at how many of the stock SM's feature them. IMHO the devs correctly understood that a large portion of the game's audience finds naval battles particularly exciting. Adding several new, high-quality warships will probably do a lot to enhance SH3's popularity and possibly introduce new people to the game. Eventually, they may come to appreciate the U-Boat's intended role - a cheap, efficient destroyer of the enemy's commerce.

[AG124]

From some of the talk on this forum lately, I certainly think there is a demnad for more merchants, but mainly for smaller ones. There seems to be a demand for capital warships too though, especially ones like the Hood and Courageous which would be able to be used in historical scenarios.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Whenever I talked to friends about WWII naval warfare I invariably got the impression that the average person is a lot more familiar with surface units and famous naval battles
A valid point and true the world over except for those with an interest in u-boats and submarines. When I speak of the average person, I am speaking of the person who is a player of SHIII and other u-boat/submarine simulations.


Adding several new, high-quality warships will probably do a lot to enhance SH3's popularity and possibly introduce new people to the game.
While respecting your opinion, I do strongly disagree that it will enhance SHIII's popularity. I do however conceed that it would certainly introduce some new people to the game who possibly would not have shown interest.

However, there is an arguement to be made that most of the 'Warship' crowd would probably come and go, where as SHIII with an amazing amount of different merchant ships would attract those who have an interest and for the most part, nearly all would stay.

I get fed up seeing yet another small merchant and C2 for the uptenth time, when I know there were thousands of different types of merchant ships around.

warships are quite important for the game's single missions - look at how many of the stock SM's feature them
This does not mean that they are popular missions. It's all about wowing in the 'warship' and 'Action' crowd, who I feel would for the most part leave. Remember how all the early screenshots were of warships duking it out?


What will make for a more varied and exciting campaign for 90% of all players? What will make 90% of all players go 'cool' when they see a convoy? Merchant ships will make the whole game better for 90% of all players.

Yer a player will go 'cool!!' when he sees a beautiful version of the Hood, but how often will he see it, if ever and will he see it for more than a few seconds?


When I speak of the 'Dev Team' I am speaking of only two individuals who are giving up their free time. As mentioned, there is no SHIII add on, it was shelved earlier this year. In addition it was to be a third party project with none of the original Dev Team members.


The SHIII we have now is it. The Additional merchant ships will add longevity to the SHIII that warships cannot :up:

[mw2000]

[quote]
The Additional merchant ships will add longevity to the SHIII that warships cannot.

I disagree with the above statement Der Teddy Bar. After completing 2 careers I have moved on to using the mission editor to create many historical missions involving subs and warships. If it wasnt for the modders here and the editor that could create a 'Battle of the Atlantic' field in all areas of the war, then I would have discontinued playing it by now :yep:. Sure more merchant ships are needed and this is a priority but it should be considered to include one warship too. Finding a warship (Cruiser are better) in the campaign maybe rare but it also adds extra excitement to the game if I were ever to come across one.

A new warship doesnt need to be scripted into the campaign but for the forgotton mission editor users this is very handy indeed. I hope that the best three ships would be included (2 merchants and 1 warship) to make everyone happy. :)

[CCIP]

I think the biggest problem with warships is not so much the fact that we badly want so many of them, but the fact that a number of very key ones are missing.

I'm with the merchant side of this. While the game feels a bit wrong without Scharnhorst or Hood, it feels even more wrong when you sink the same darn ship so many times over.

The gameplay will benefit more from merchants. But let's not fight; we can all agree that a more complete collection of warships would be nice, too. I'd love to see them - just not as much as a few new tankers to work with.

[The Avon Lady]

Distribution of the community models will be made available via a patch as the new models will require ‘UnitType’ entires added into the various game files.
Question: can UnitType entries be defined for ships, even if their model files are not yet available?

This would allow for maximizing the potential UnitTypes now and adding new models in the future, should this "patch" be issued before every model we can think of has been developed.

Is this possible and preferable? :hmm:
/bump

[Marhkimov]

Der Teddy Bar,


I love your enthusiasm over merchant shipping. You know exactly what the u-boat gaming community really wants, and more importantly, you know exactly what we really need. We need stuff to sink, not to watch as they duke it out with their behemoth deck guns. When you send our models to the 'Dev Team', I certainly hope you do all of us a favor and gently prod them into making merchants over warships. I would DIE if we got a Tirpitz, or a Hood, or a New Jersey... :up:

Best Regards,
Marhkimov

[Der Teddy Bar]

[quote=Der Teddy Bar]Distribution of the community models will be made available via a patch as the new models will require ‘UnitType’ entires added into the various game files.
Question: can UnitType entries be defined for ships, even if their model files are not yet available?

This would allow for maximizing the potential UnitTypes now and adding new models in the future, should this "patch" be issued before every model we can think of has been developed.
I will ask. There may of course be more to it than just an entry ID.

[sergbuto]

What do you mean own, as in we paid money for it and it is now our own?
Yes.

As to additional new merchants, all the convoys in the Campaign files are presicely scripted using the Class entry which means that none of new merchants will appear in convoys unless the Campaign files are rewritten (a big job). The variety of ships will increase only for some single merchants traffic. On the other hand, many warships are scripted by the Type entry which means random picking out of variety of ships of the same Type.

[iambecomelife]

What do you mean own, as in we paid money for it and it is now our own?
Yes.

As to additional new merchants, all the convoys in the Campaign files are presicely scripted using the Class entry which means that none of new merchants will appear in convoys unless the Campaign files are rewritten (a big job). The variety of ships will increase only for some single merchants traffic. On the other hand, many warships are scripted by the Type entry which means random picking out of variety of ships of the same Type.

But couldn't you open the campaign file in a text editor and use a "find-replace/ ctrl+h" command to get rid of the scripted merchants? That could make the process go a lot faster.

[chaos]

Just my opinion the sub sim community are looking in the same direction ( Too make the game better and not let the game die ). So if there is to be NO new patches, Addons or anything offical why dont they release the MDT or SDK tools so that the sub sim community can add new ships merchant or otherwise. No offence to the Dev team the thought is great, but if they are going to do this part time and we have to make the models send it to them and IF they have the time they will add them...it seems alot of time wasted, If we pulled together as a community we could make one hell of a mod, we have alot of expirenced modelers and coders on this site and by the sounds of it alot of time too ;) i know this has been mentioned alot it's because we dont want to see a game with alot of potential fall like alot of other games! Look at BF1942 to be honest that would of died ages ago if they did'nt release the MDT. To keep a game fresh and full of replay value Dev's now are releasing SDK's or MDT's because they know if there is a good mod out there people will still be prepeared to spend money on dated games because of the modding community keeping the game alive.

[AG124]

When you send our models to the 'Dev Team', I certainly hope you do all of us a favor and gently prod them into making merchants over warships.

Has anyone actually submitted anything yet? Either merchants or warships? :-?

[CWorth]

When you send our models to the 'Dev Team', I certainly hope you do all of us a favor and gently prod them into making merchants over warships.

Has anyone actually submitted anything yet? Either merchants or warships? :-?

Im personally would not get to get to excited or hold my breath over this..I doubt it will go any farther than what you see here...a call for models.

Just like the last time they did this nothing came of it so Im not expecting any different now.Though it would be nice to see some new ships added that are not just rehashes of existing models that are already in the game.I just dont think it will happen.Call me pessimistic but I find it is easier that way.

[AG124]

It is probable that nothing will come of it, but it doesn't hurt to ask. So did anybody actually submit anything?

[oRGy]

Will more warships make for more exciting patrols? No.


Excitement is generated by dramatic scenarios, not ship types. So, if the scenarios are set up for them, yeah. If its just a slightly different looking freighter in a convoy - a situation the player has seen 100 times before - no.

Will we see more 'warships' on patrol? No.

Yes. Have you played the latest version of IuB which includes Rubini's harbour traffic 1.46? You can see the latest new unit escorting you out of harbour - commander1980's Flottenbegleiter. This is great and adds historical depth to the game.

Will it make for better escorts? No.

Will additional merchants make for better merchant AI? No.


How often does a player actually see a warship? Rarely, if at all.


In the standard SH3, not a lot, apart from destroyers. In IuB, quite a lot more if he knows where to look - for example, in the Norwegian campaign. The trick is to let the player know where to look for the new scripted operations without breaking the game.


Will it make for better game play seeing 3 variations of an aircraft carrier? No.


Will it make for better game play seeing 3 variations of a small tanker? No.

Again, a nonsense question - what it would add is historical depth and accuracy, which is a similar answer for including more merchant types, of course.


Will we see more sea battles with the additional warships? No.


Yes, assuming the campaign is scripted to support them. The Ops mod was good for this, and Rubini created a great version of the Bismarck ops. And, new merchants won't appear without scripting either.

Will having the entire German or Italian, or American navy modelled improve the game? No, for the reasons above.

Yes, for the reasons above - SH3 could evolve into a game where the player can experience for themselves all major combat operations of WW2!


What does not having the entire American navy modelled, take away from the game? Nothing.

Not having the Italian navy even slightly modelled means that you get ridiculous scenarios like german bb's escorting italian convoys in the med in 42/43 in order to 'stand in' for the lack of Italian battleships.

Not having the French navy even slightly modelled means you can't recreate the naval siege of Dakar.

Not having the Kriegsmarine properly modelled means we have difficulty in recreating the ebb and flow of the war for the Kriegsmarine - where they started out a well equipped and expanding naval force but ended up in ruins, with most of their ships sunk, even in their own harbours.

I could go on and on...


What does not having ‘The HOOD’ modelled in the game take away from the gaming experience? Nothing.

It means that Rubini has to recreate the Battle of Denmark Strait with an incorrect ship class.

In conclusion, you seem to confuse the initial state of SH3 - unmodded - with the situation we have nowadays. Indeed, in stock SH3 naval operations are not modelled at all and we only have a pseudo-realistic convoy system, some escorts around harbours, and nothing else. In this context as you say, "why spend a large portion of limited resources for something that in the end, for the majority of players, makes up less than 1% of the game?"

But in our present context, where really great work has been done by Rubini and the Ops team amongst others, and which is only the tip of the iceberg, the greater return is actually on warships, as convoys are already well modelled apart from a few holes like small-medium size freighters, older tankers, and so on.

In any case, as others have pointed out, it is easy now to insert new units into the game. What we need above all is deep technical information on all outstanding issues.

What will happen with the dev offer - which is a kind offer by the way - is that a few noobs might send in some models, but which will be very poor in quality, while the decent mod makers will release decent models with sansal's tools and will then be integrated by either RuB or IuB as part of the main game.

[chaos]

i agree with you oRGy 100%

hopefully soon we will release a new ship pack including most of the navys from around the world here's some ships from the U.S we are working on
Essex class carrier
Iowa class BB
Pennsylvania class BB
Nevada class BB
verious cruisers heavy and light
destroyers and other support ships.

[Marhkimov]

Still crossing my fingers for merchants... PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEAAAAASE!!! :lol:

[Commander1980]

Still crossing my fingers for merchants... PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEAAAAASE!!! :lol:

i have tried a very surprisingly merchant. When the Mahan DD is ready, i will complete it. ;)

[Floater]

Just to throw in my tuppence-worth, I think Teddy Bar is absolutely right, and for the right reasons. If there are going to be more ship types in the game, it's variety in the merchants that we need the most.

[Excalibur Bane]

Just my opinion the sub sim community are looking in the same direction ( Too make the game better and not let the game die ). So if there is to be NO new patches, Addons or anything offical why dont they release the MDT or SDK tools so that the sub sim community can add new ships merchant or otherwise. No offence to the Dev team the thought is great, but if they are going to do this part time and we have to make the models send it to them and IF they have the time they will add them...it seems alot of time wasted, If we pulled together as a community we could make one hell of a mod, we have alot of expirenced modelers and coders on this site and by the sounds of it alot of time too ;) i know this has been mentioned alot it's because we dont want to see a game with alot of potential fall like alot of other games! Look at BF1942 to be honest that would of died ages ago if they did'nt release the MDT. To keep a game fresh and full of replay value Dev's now are releasing SDK's or MDT's because they know if there is a good mod out there people will still be prepeared to spend money on dated games because of the modding community keeping the game alive.

Well, I suspect they are not releasing any of the offical tools because they aren't finished with this engine yet? Perhaps the fourth installment of the game will use a more, shall we say, optimized version of the current engine? This thing is terribly unoptimized and as sluggish as a wooly mammoth. Maybe it'll get better for the next installment of the series or whatever else they plan to use the engine for. :)

[The Avon Lady]

Distribution of the community models will be made available via a patch as the new models will require ‘UnitType’ entires added into the various game files.
Question: can UnitType entries be defined for ships, even if their model files are not yet available?

This would allow for maximizing the potential UnitTypes now and adding new models in the future, should this "patch" be issued before every model we can think of has been developed.
I will ask. There may of course be more to it than just an entry ID.
Any news?

Would this help the arguments here about which ships to prioritize by simply predefining UnitType entries for everything in advance, allowing the models to be added in the future?

If that's possible, maybe all this bickering would be redundant. :hmm:

[GlobalExplorer]

[Der Teddy Bär wrote:]
"The original SHIII Dev Team have been moved onto various other projects and are offering their assistance to the community as they can in their own free time. It was Ubisofts decision not to make available a SDK for SHIII, the Dev Team are only employees. However, it is only through the grace of Ubisoft that the SHIII Dev Team have been able to make such generous offers. So let’s not get into ‘yer but they said’ etc, it will not change anything."

"In May, the SHIII Dev Team had mostly been split up. Some having been moved onto other projects, and in some cases they have left Ubisoft.
Let me clarify something. There is NO add on for SHIII, there is at this stage NO SHIV.
Guys, you need to understand, SHIII is a finished project for Ubisoft. Finished, no more patches and no add ons, nothing. I would not rule out a SHIV, but I am 99% sure that ther most likely will not be one anytime in the next few years."


I am surprised that there are no comments on this news!

[GlobalExplorer]

If there is really going to be an unofficial mini-patch, we MUST NOT argue about whether we want more merchants or warships, instead we have to take the chance to get exactly those changes made to the engine that give us maximum modding potential in the future.

It would be unwise to push the devs to include some long needed content (new merchant models, traffic in harbours and the like).
In fact it would be a waste of their precious time to do anything but open up the engine for new content that the community will create anyway during the following years - if the engine has that potential.
SH3 has a wonderful data driven architecture, and if that is extended to some now hard coded features, just about anything could be made of this great game!

I'd say ideally the patch would contain:

- optional pool of new IDs for further ship addons [see AvonLady]
- increased maximum number of ships/units (no cap around 128 or 256)
- no hard-coded weather (why not in a config file like campaign\weather.txt?)
- changes to sub AI
- changes to AI in general

This was just a quick shot at what should be in, but you should get the idea.

So why don't we get into contact with the devs and ask them if some of these minor changes could be done?

[Pants]

one more thing i would love to see added is more weapons because as it is we are limited to stock weapons so that means we are limited to ships with these weapons...so no scharnhorst ( 11ich tripple turrets ) or the yamato ( 18.5 inch tripple turrets ) :damn:

[Cdre Gibs]

I agree Pants, we need a better libary of all types of ship weapons and the tools to use them. Like a Node editor along the lines of the CMP editor used in Freelancer, or a proper MDT. This is what I would rather see the Dev's do, is give the Community the means to do MODS. Now I know we have Sansals Pack3D tool ( and a damn fine job he did of it too) and the tools from Timetravler (again outstanding work) but even with these efforts we still aint really in the ball park so to speak.

Now that its been stated that "Thats it No more to follow" as far as Patch's and even a SHIV is concerned, I feel its only fitting that since we are now "Out in the cold" so to speak, that at the very least we could get some means of keeping SH3 alive via a semi offical means.

We dont need the nitty gritty nuts an bolts but just a few good tools to do things with that will allow us at least to add new content in all file types that are a must. I speak of adding in Nodes or new content to say a DAT or SIM file for example, that dont cause issues later on down the track because the means that we have used are not truly 100% compatable.

With these types of tools at our disposal we (the community) can carry on improving SH3 to at least the same standards as the Dev's or even better, because we have the time and the passion to do so.

[oRGy]

I second what Gibs says.

Also there are several critical bugs that if fixed would help our job enormously, such as the AI ships losing waypoints after a reload, or the weather getting stuck after a reload, and so on.

Another major missing gap is AI units unable to fire torpedoes. If this was activated or if modders were given some way to enable it, it would help an awful lot.

[Charlie901]

I defenitely agree with that too - If the dev's are going to add some ships to the game for us, they should concentrate on warships, as community members have a better chance of adding merchants with the toold available.

The capital warships which should be given priority, IMO, are the

*Scharnhorst class battlecruiser/battleship.
*Deutchland class pocket battleship/heavy cruiser, (maybe a separate class for the other two, as they were different).
K class light cruiser.
Leipzig light cruiser

*Some Italian BB's, including Littorio class.
*Zara class CA.
Italian light cruisers.

*Renown class Battlecruiser.
Hood Battlecruiser.
*Courageous class Carrier.
*Ark Royal Carrier.
Eagle or Hermes carrier.

And some American and French warships - there are too many missing for me to suggest any.

Does anyone have any of these built from scratch?

Again, this is a very nice gesture from the dev team, especially if the are volunteering their own time. :up:


DITTO!

[Der Teddy Bar]

I defenitely agree with that too - If the dev's are going to add some ships to the game for us, they should concentrate on warships, as community members have a better chance of adding merchants with the toold available.
Actually not quit true ;)

While the comunity can make some cosmetic changes to the merchant ships they cannot change it's base design. So while we can move 3D engine room to the rear of the vessel we cannot move the physical location of the engine room as that is codded in the various associated files.

This would be a 'poor' mod and would turn people off getting 'real' shipping mods. It also would have a negative effect upon the games reputation.

So we cannot move/change these items...
1. Cargo Space - hold
2. Engine room
3. Fuel bunker
4. Stern compartment

I am not sure if many of you are aware that the SHIII ships actually have compartments as per a real ship. Obviously the 4 above along with a comaprtment in the bow as well as the fuel bunker.

As an example, the C2 is comprised of the following compartments in the following order...
bow
cargo space
cargo space
cargo space
fuel bunker
engine room
cargo space
stern


If you used this as a base for a new merchant ship with the bridge/engine room moved rearward you would end up with the engine room 20+ metres away from the visual location.

As you guessed, it doesn't really work :rotfl:

[Marhkimov]

How about we just send the dev team our models and let them decide what they want to make. I'm guessing if it is a moderate to good model, they will use it...

[The Avon Lady]

How about we just send the dev team our models and let them decide what they want to make. I'm guessing if it is a moderate to good model, they will use it...
Where are these virtual dev team members?

Are they shy? Can't they post here? Why do we need an intermediary?

HELLO! DEV TEAM! YOOHOO! COME OUT, COME OUT WHEREVER YOU ARE!

:-?

[Marhkimov]

How about we just send the dev team our models and let them decide what they want to make. I'm guessing if it is a moderate to good model, they will use it...
Where are these virtual dev team members?

Are they shy? Can't they post here? Why do we need an intermediary?

HELLO! DEV TEAM! YOOHOO! COME OUT, COME OUT WHEREVER YOU ARE!

:-?

Agreed. SHOW YOURSELVES!! :-?

[Der Teddy Bar]

How about we just send the dev team our models and let them decide what they want to make. I'm guessing if it is a moderate to good model, they will use it...
Where are these virtual dev team members?

Are they shy? Can't they post here? Why do we need an intermediary?

HELLO! DEV TEAM! YOOHOO! COME OUT, COME OUT WHEREVER YOU ARE!

:-?
If I don't feel safe here imagine how a Dev Team member would feel? :rotfl:

[sergbuto]

If I don't feel safe here imagine how a Dev Team member would feel? :rotfl:

:o I did not know that it is possible to use real mashine guns on these forums. :rotfl:

[GlobalExplorer]

Wouldn't it be a good idea to agree on a reasonable timeframe in which the models would have to be sent in?

I mean those merchant models aren't going to miraculously appear now, are they? In fact it could take months for the first ones to be complete.

Also the devs should better clarify what they are going to do, otherwise most people will not want to invest a lot of time. Just think of IL-2, Jippo did a wonderful Ju-88 and it has never been incorporated in the game.

http://www.ju88.equitatura.de/Index2.htm

I feel I should come up with a merhcant model before this chance will have passed, but unfortunately 3d modeling is not my area. And I know how picky I am about visual quality myself.

[AG124]

I never thought about the compartments before - I didn't realize they couldn't be changed :o. I did know they were there though.

I too agree that it is not really clear what those dev guys are offering to do - all we know is that they are putting ships in the game. Is there anything more specific you can tell us?

It would definetely by a good idea if they could post here - if they have some time.

[oRGy]

While the comunity can make some cosmetic changes to the merchant ships they cannot change it's base design. So while we can move 3D engine room to the rear of the vessel we cannot move the physical location of the engine room as that is codded in the various associated files.

This would be a 'poor' mod and would turn people off getting 'real' shipping mods. It also would have a negative effect upon the games reputation.

So we cannot move/change these items...
1. Cargo Space - hold
2. Engine room
3. Fuel bunker
4. Stern compartment

If you used this as a base for a new merchant ship with the bridge/engine room moved rearward you would end up with the engine room 20+ metres away from the visual location.

As you guessed, it doesn't really work :rotfl:

Eh? I thought all these values were defined in the ships .cfg files? Any ship modders know any different? I find it very hard to believe that these couldn't be edited.

For example, from the NBB_Bismarck.cfg file:


[2DCompartments]
UnitPos=66,15,384,12
NbOfComp=6
Name1=Propulsion
Area1=79,11,30,18
Name2=Keel
Area2=155,8,200,10
Name3=Fore Ammo Bunker
Area3=324,19,40,18
Name4=Aft Ammo Bunker
Area4=132,19,40,18
Name5=Engines Room
Area5=238,19,40,18
Name6=Fuel Bunkers
Area6=280,19,30,18


Now, I assume these are for the recognition manual - but there must be similar values in the .sim or .zon files. In any case I find your attitude rather negative. As I said before, the best thing devs can give us are technical information, tools, and 'unofficial' patches fixing broken things or adding new features like functional ai-fired torpedoes. Please pass on such requests if you have contact with the devs.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Now, I assume these are for the recognition manual - but there must be similar values in the .sim or .zon files. In any case I find your attitude rather negative. As I said before, the best thing devs can give us are technical information, tools, and 'unofficial' patches fixing broken things or adding new features like functional ai-fired torpedoes. Please pass on such requests if you have contact with the devs.
oRGy,
I have been polite with you, but to be blunt, you know sweet FA. However, I will persist with you for the benefit of others.

The entries in the InsertShipName.cfg file are for the recognition manual only. Here is how to test it. Change the number, they work this way,
Area#=From Left, From Bottom, Width, Height.
See where your recognition manual says the specified area is now. Now target that area through the recognition manual, go to F12 and see where the torpedo actually goes. Yes you guessed correctly, it goes to the hard coded original location.

Yes you did finally click to the above fact, but only after it was made obvious.

BUT.... you still don't get it though... what about all the other compartments?

Are you slower than the rest of the class? How often must I say that the Devs are employees, only Ubisoft can give us tools. And.... as has been already said, Ubisoft will not in the foreseeable future be releasing a SDK for SHIII. Why? Most likely because it is still used for other games.

Why am I not surprised that you would want 'functioning AI fired torpedoes' over a correct damage/repair system for the u-boat, dare I say Quake on Water? Oops, there I have already said it.

You of course will reply to this, however, please understand that you will get no further responses from me regarding your posts no matter how outlandish and incorrect they are certain to be.

[LukeFF]

Just think of IL-2, Jippo did a wonderful Ju-88 and it has never been incorporated in the game.

http://www.ju88.equitatura.de/Index2.htm

Yes, it has. It will be released in one of the upcoming addons. There's a thread over at simhq right now that deals with this very subject.

[iambecomelife]

Now, I assume these are for the recognition manual - but there must be similar values in the .sim or .zon files. In any case I find your attitude rather negative. As I said before, the best thing devs can give us are technical information, tools, and 'unofficial' patches fixing broken things or adding new features like functional ai-fired torpedoes. Please pass on such requests if you have contact with the devs.
oRGy,
I have been polite with you, but to be blunt, you know sweet FA. However, I will persist with you for the benefit of others.

The entries in the InsertShipName.cfg file are for the recognition manual only. Here is how to test it. Change the number, they work this way,
Area#=From Left, From Bottom, Width, Height.
See where your recognition manual says the specified area is now. Now target that area through the recognition manual, go to F12 and see where the torpedo actually goes. Yes you guessed correctly, it goes to the hard coded original location.

Yes you did finally click to the above fact, but only after it was made obvious.

BUT.... you still don't get it though... what about all the other compartments?

Are you slower than the rest of the class? How often must I say that the Devs are employees, only Ubisoft can give us tools. And.... as has been already said, Ubisoft will not in the foreseeable future be releasing a SDK for SHIII. Why? Most likely because it is still used for other games.

Why am I not surprised that you would want 'functioning AI fired torpedoes' over a correct damage/repair system for the u-boat, dare I say Quake on Water? Oops, there I have already said it.

You of course will reply to this, however, please understand that you will get no further responses from me regarding your posts no matter how outlandish and incorrect they are certain to be.

I don't know any of the history behind this dispute, but I really hope you guys work it out. There aren't enough SH3 players & modders as it is, and I wouldn't want anyone to leave the community.

[Sheppard]

Quite frankly, if there's not going to be any addon for SH3, or a SH4, just give us the SDK instead of hoarding it. What mythical profits will Ubisoft lose, since there's no SH4 on the horizon, as the mods will keep SH3 selling at a nice low level for years to come.

[Cdre Gibs]

I have been polite with you, but to be blunt, you know sweet FA. However, I will persist with you for the benefit of others.
Yes you did finally click to the above fact, but only after it was made obvious.
BUT.... you still don't get it though...
Are you slower than the rest of the class?
Why am I not surprised that you would want 'functioning AI fired torpedoes' over a correct damage/repair system for the u-boat, dare I say Quake on Water? Oops, there I have already said it.
You of course will reply to this, however, please understand that you will get no further responses from me regarding your posts no matter how outlandish and incorrect they are certain to be.

He mightn't but I sure as hell will.

With an attiitude like that I can quite definately say that any chance of ubi getting anything from me just went out the window.
Ohh and we now have the same contempt for you and yours as you show for your client base. Ubi had better get another spokeperson because you just blew it.
Well done.

[Der Teddy Bar]

I have been polite with you, but to be blunt, you know sweet FA. However, I will persist with you for the benefit of others.
Yes you did finally click to the above fact, but only after it was made obvious.
BUT.... you still don't get it though...
Are you slower than the rest of the class?
Why am I not surprised that you would want 'functioning AI fired torpedoes' over a correct damage/repair system for the u-boat, dare I say Quake on Water? Oops, there I have already said it.
You of course will reply to this, however, please understand that you will get no further responses from me regarding your posts no matter how outlandish and incorrect they are certain to be.

He mightn't but I sure as hell will.

With an attiitude like that I can quite definately say that any chance of ubi getting anything from me just went out the window.
Ohh and we now have the same contempt for you and yours as you show for your client base. Ubi had better get another spokeperson because you just blew it.
Well done.
Sorry you feel that way, but there is little that I can do about it. I stand by the post, it was not directed at you, but I cannot stop you from taking affence for him.

Do you have me confused with someone else? I do not, have not and never will be an employee of Ubisoft. I am just a forum memeber.

It is your choice not to submit anything. Why I may not understand it, nor can I fathom what you hope to achieve, I can respect that.

[Sheppard]

Do you have me confused with someone else? I do not, have not and never will be an employee of Ubisoft. I am just a forum memeber.

And why has Ubisoft selected you to be their representative? For all we know, you could just be gathering 3D models for your own SimHQ mod.

[The Avon Lady]

Do you have me confused with someone else? I do not, have not and never will be an employee of Ubisoft. I am just a forum memeber.

And why has Ubisoft selected you to be their representative? For all we know, you could just be gathering 3D models for your own SimHQ mod.
I have posed this question privately. I think Teddy's intentions here are honest and commendable. From what I've read, I also think SinHQ's mod idea is excellent and is unrelated to this. But SimHQ's mod is really a separate story.

I'm sure Teddy has been nothing more than an intermediary. This can be a good think. Too many cooks, etc.

However, legitimate technical questions have been brought up here and Teddy has said he'll pass them on to the devs. So far it's been silent running. So much of what's being dicsussed and argued here is academic for the moment and possibly forever.

On a separate note, let's all calm down here. Truce, fellas? We certainly don't want to scare the developers away with ranting, bickering and personal attacks.

Put on a happy face! :D

[iambecomelife]

Do you have me confused with someone else? I do not, have not and never will be an employee of Ubisoft. I am just a forum memeber.

And why has Ubisoft selected you to be their representative? For all we know, you could just be gathering 3D models for your own SimHQ mod.
I have posed this question privately. I think Teddy's intentions here are honest and commendable. From what I've read, I also think SinHQ's mod idea is excellent and is unrelated to this. But SimHQ's mod is really a separate story.

I'm sure Teddy has been nothing more than an intermediary. This can be a good think. Too many cooks, etc.

However, legitimate technical questions have been brought up here and Teddy has said he'll pass them on to the devs. So far it's been silent running. So much of what's being dicsussed and argued here is academic for the moment and possibly forever.

On a separate note, let's all calm down here. Truce, fellas? We certainly don't want to scare the developers away with ranting, bickering and personal attacks.

Put on a happy face! :D

Hear, hear.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Do you have me confused with someone else? I do not, have not and never will be an employee of Ubisoft. I am just a forum memeber.

And why has Ubisoft selected you to be their representative? For all we know, you could just be gathering 3D models for your own SimHQ mod.
Sheppard,
Ubisoft have not selected me as their representative. I am fortunate enough to be in contact with some members of the the Dev Team and a great Frenchman at Ubisoft.

How have I come to make this offer regarding the 3D models? It has come about by asking. In a nutshell, I had promoted RUB to Ubisoft (i.e. corperate) making them aware of the great work and of the published magazine article about RUB in an attempt to get a SDK for the RUB team. As you are aware Ubisoft will not be releasing a SDK for SHIII in the near future.

While I have not been a great poster in the mod forum, I believe that Berry, CCIP and others of the RUB team will vouch that I have been a go between for answers from the Devs for over 6 months. I have also contributed greatly with information. Such as the formulas of how the SHIII sensors work, how compartment effeciency is calculated etc All shared on this board, often in the private Rub forum. I also was the one who dicovered how to keep escorts around longer, what the maximum response range was for an esort, who supplied Sailor Steve with the historical minefileds information etc. Again, I just gave these to the RUB project.

Now onto the SimHQ mod... The SimHQ mod has nothing to do with my involvement with this offer and to suggest that I am getting the 3D models to use in this mod is pretty much a laugh. The SimHQ mod is in response to my dislike of the RUB fatigue mod etc. The SimHQ mod will be compatible with RUB and the default game. The SimHQ mod has been in the works for the last 6 weeks, but you will notice that inbetween now and then I have shared significant information regarding the crew workings. I have also, through the RUB forum passed on thier questions to the Dev Team and supplied answers.

[Der Teddy Bar]

As Sergbuto posted around here a while ago, my S-Boat is available. (He posted some screenshots of it ingame, I don't know how far along he has gotten). The source files are on my website if anyone wants to add the unmodified sail the Brit and Polish ones had. The current model has the modified sail (with the forward AA Platform) the US boats in the Pacific had.

I expect my steak knifes and The Avon Lady to be sent to me in the mail soon. :-j
Wow! Sorry I had missed this.

I'll have to see if there is any sub AI.

[Der Teddy Bar]

The Devs already made the same offer in the May!
http://subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=35175

Where are now all the new models, which they got in the meantime?

Weren't these models good enough?

Or were these too good modelled and them come instead of into a free patch, in a commercial Ubisoft SH3 add-on or sequel?

Did the community designers receive a feedback from the devs about their models?

Did the Devs receive at all a model?

Oh yes, they must have gotten one, my fishing vessel! ...would have, because I never got a feedback about the model or at least an acknowledgement about the receive.
Seeadler,
Cristian replied that they had not received any 3D models.

Please e-mail it to me at TeddyBar@simhq.com and I will pass it through.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Distribution of the community models will be made available via a patch as the new models will require ‘UnitType’ entires added into the various game files.
Question: can UnitType entries be defined for ships, even if their model files are not yet available?

This would allow for maximizing the potential UnitTypes now and adding new models in the future, should this "patch" be issued before every model we can think of has been developed.

Is this possible and preferable? :hmm:
I posed the question of using the current UnitType=105 for the icebergs , this is the translated reply...

Essentially yes. However there are a few things I need to clarify.

After re-reading this thread, I think that releasing a patch with a whole lot of slots available may be a waste of the Devs own time.

[The Avon Lady]

Distribution of the community models will be made available via a patch as the new models will require ‘UnitType’ entires added into the various game files.
Question: can UnitType entries be defined for ships, even if their model files are not yet available?

This would allow for maximizing the potential UnitTypes now and adding new models in the future, should this "patch" be issued before every model we can think of has been developed.

Is this possible and preferable? :hmm:
I posed the question of using the current UnitType=105 for the icebergs , this is the translated reply...

Essentially yes. However there are a few things I need to clarify.

After re-reading this thread, I think that releasing a patch with a whole lot of slots available may be a waste of the Devs own time.
Why? Please explain. :-?

[Der Teddy Bar]

- changes to sub AI
- changes to AI in general

Just picking up on these, the AI guy is not available.

May I add, as this does seem to be a good launching pad for this statement.

Regardless of the debate of to merchant or to not, I don't see anyone submitting anything that has already been done. The Dev team have offered their own free time, and all I see is a whole lot of negativity and doubt on their intentions.

By not embracing this great offer we certainly are ensuring that we won't be offered any others. As I had previously said, let’s take this excellent opportunity and see where it leads us to.

[Sheppard]

The Dev team have offered their own free time, and all I see is a whole lot of negativity and doubt on their intentions.

Because we haven't been given anything real or concrete. When they originally announced that they'd include models, they conviently forgot to include an address to send the models to; and it's only months later, that we get a supposed address to send our models to.

[Der Teddy Bar]

The Dev team have offered their own free time, and all I see is a whole lot of negativity and doubt on their intentions.

Because we haven't been given anything real or concrete. When they originally announced that they'd include models, they conviently forgot to include an address to send the models to; and it's only months later, that we get a supposed address to send our models to.
It is my theory that it may have gone like this. The Dev Team were already going onto new projects as SHIII was being released. They asked in good faith with all intentions of following through. However, company moves and the associated obligations of being an employee as well as some people leaving the company got in the way of something coming out of the initial offer.

However, the offer is now on the table, there is an e-mail address. So let's not be shy! :up:

[oRGy]

Hi;

It is good to know you have some contact with the devs. What I would hope for from them are "unofficial" tools or patches that they would release through an intermediary (such as yourself) if they can't get official company authorisation.

My concern with AI fired torpedoes is not due to wanting "Quake on Water" - it's due to the lack of the FIDO homing torpedo that killed about 60 uboats in the later years of the war for example, as well as the generally feeble nature of torpedo boats which goes against historical reality.

Therefore, if you could pass on requests for information like this and share it publicly (I and others have no access to this 'private' forum) we would be grateful.

Regards

[GlobalExplorer]

Regardless of the debate of to merchant or to not, I don't see anyone submitting anything that has already been done. The Dev team have offered their own free time, and all I see is a whole lot of negativity and doubt on their intentions.

While I more or less agree with your statements, you're somewhat exaggerating here. Your plan requires a lot of work from the devs AND the community. So there has to be some mutual agreement that there is something going to happen at all.

As I said before, merchant models aren't going to appear from nowhere, they need a lot of time, and I wouldn't want to work on one if I'm not given some assurance that it is in fact going to be in the game.

And if I haven't done before, I want to express my gratitude and respect for the devs for theit generous offer as well as the work they have already done so far. I think it's just fair to say this from time to time.

[GlobalExplorer]

May I also add that in my opinion there is a also need for at least 1 sinkable AI sub for following nations:
-Britain
-USA
-Italy
-Russia

Subs DID sink subs in WWII, especially the british were particularly successful in this (no wonder with the number of potential targets ..)

Side note: Out of boredom I sank a VIIC in Bergen today, and the way they blow up is just great (in fact a friend whos not into SH3 said so). So, whoever did the AI subs (sergbuto?), awesome work dude.

[Der Teddy Bar]

May I also add that in my opinion there is a also need for at least 1 sinkable AI sub for following nations:
-Britain
-USA
-Italy
-Russia

Subs DID sink subs in WWII, especially the british were particularly successful in this (no wonder with the number of potential targets ..)

Side note: Out of boredom I sank a VIIC in Bergen today, and the way they blow up is just great (in fact a friend whos not into SH3 said so). So, whoever did the AI subs (sergbuto?), awesome work dude.
I think that the lack of sub AI, the reason that there are no wolfpacks, make this a good idea that would be of no benifit within the game.

[Happy Times]

Couldnt the devs give one, as a gesture of good faith? :)

[GlobalExplorer]

I think that the lack of sub AI, the reason that there are no wolfpacks, make this a good idea that would be of no benifit within the game.

Maybe this depends on the way you see it. One passive sub per nation doesn't sound much, but sometimes 1 is infinitely more than 0. So if other submarines cannot be simulated in the game, I want to a least be able to simulate them in my head. That means, I would be happy if I just knew there are other subs out there, and that I can see them. I want to know that I could go to Malta and find two or three Type U subs, and could even sink them. The game would benefit immensely from more variety: subs, lifeboats, wrecks, burning vessels.