OT: fresh pics of U32 (new German U212-A AIP Sub)

[Smaragdadler]

Found in another forum. Just thinking you guys may be interested :yep: :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/news%20photos/Todays/Continued/cb0678b0.jpg
The submarine U 32 of the German Navy is moored to the jetty at the German Navy submarine base of Eckernfoerde, northern Germany, on Monday, Oct 17, 2005. The warship with its fuel cell propulsion ranks as the most modern submarine in the world and will be put in operation on Wednesday, Oct. 19. (AP Photo/Heribert Proepper)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/news%20photos/Todays/Continued/44e1cd53.jpg
A submariner climbs a ladder next to the covered and top secret part of the fuel cell propulsion, left, of the German Navy submarine U32 whilst moored to the jetty at the German Navy submarine base of Eckernfoerde, northern Germany, Monday, Oct 17, 2005. The warship with its fuel cell propulsion ranks as the most modern submarine in the world and will be put in operation on Wednesday. (AP Photo/Heribert Proepper)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/news%20photos/Todays/Continued/a5d76975.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/news%20photos/Todays/Continued/47cb98fb.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/news%20photos/Todays/Continued/1735dd0c.jpg
Michael Bornholt, commander of the submarine U 32 of the German Navy, looks through the navigation periscope in the operation center of the U 32, when it is moored to the jetty at the German Navy submarine base of Eckernfoerde, northern Germany, on Monday, Oct 17, 2005. The warship with its fuel cell propulsion ranks as the most modern submarine in the world and will be put in operation on upcoming Wednesday. (AP Photo/Heribert Proepper)

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20051019/i/r155313208.jpg
Stefanie Lange, Communication Petty Officer of submarine U 31 of the German Navy is pictured in the operation centre inside the vessel while it is docked at the German Navy submarine base in Eckernfoerde, northern Germany October 19, 2005. The submarine with its fuel cell propulsion ranks is noted as the most modern submarine in the world. REUTERS/Fabrizio Bensch

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/news%20photos/Todays/Continued/048967df.jpg
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source (and some more pics): http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59576

[Ghost Dog]

in that first pic, it looks no bigger than a bus.

[Bellman]

Sm - cool photos - thanks. :sunny:

Does the torp tube photo reveal the latest German 'secret weapon' - manualy steered torpedos ? :hmm:

Nice pin-ups, and very pleased to see chip consumption - a 'healthy' disregard for pc health issues. :up:

The unused plate is a sinister confirmation of the fact that the sailor controlling that torp will be late for his meal -
if indeed he ever returns. (No reflection on the grub cook !) :o

From the Brass smirk is the follicaly challenged politico appealing for the return of his toupee ? :oops: :o
Anyways it shows a healthy disregard for those we empower. ;)

[Kapitan]

nice pics of those girls i mean :D

[Pigfish]

:o Fantastic pics of the sharpest looking modern Diesel submarine. :cool:

One near the bottom you posted would make nice wallpaper. So sad so small... :(

[Sea Demon]

:cool: Thanks for sharing the pics of this awesome sub.

Sea Demon

[Smaragdadler]

in that first pic, it looks no bigger than a bus.

http://www.marine.de/02DB070000000001/CurrentBaseLink/W26A3DD8363INFODE/$FILE/U31(Klasse%20212)-640x459.jpg
Maße (Länge / Breite / Tiefgang): 56m / 7,0m / 6,0m
(Length, Width, Depth under surface)

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/type_212/
http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_U212,,00.html
http://www.marine.de/01DB070000000001/CurrentBaseLink/W2699K5A242INFODE

http://www.daimlerchrysler.com/Projects/c2c/channel/images/179074_279504_381_254_mb_travego.jpg
Mercedes-Benz Travego. Lenght with 49 seats: 13,85 Meter.

http://www.linternaute.com/savoir/diaporama/airbus_a380/images/exterieur.jpg
Airbus A380. Lenght: 72,7 m

[XabbaRus]

I have a model of the Type 212 but I think I need to start again.

I think the stern isn't steep enough on my model.

I'll post pics so you can comment.

[Smaragdadler]

@XabbaRus: Very cool. Maybe this can help a little bit:

http://www.subnetitalia.it/u212(todaro).jpg
http://www.duxu.de/marine/U-Boote/3bundes/T212/Draw.jpg

Large pics:
http://www.hdw.de/bilder/schiffbau/u212a-gr.jpg
http://vcom.hnby.com.cn/dhbbs/UploadFile/2005-7/20057917322375935.jpg
http://homepage.eircom.net/~steven/images/gertype212.jpg
http://www.subnetitalia.it/skkprojetcopertina.jpg
http://www.futura-dtp.dk/FLEET/images/skibe/U212.jpg
http://www.diebrennstoffzelle.de/images/news/hdw212a.jpg

Download "Linienriss U212" (pdf) on the right:
http://www.nordseewerke.de/d/info/modellbau.html

[Seeadler]

:o Fantastic pics of the sharpest looking modern Diesel submarine. :cool:
But it is not a diesel sub, it's Hydrogen cell powered, it drives only with electric motors, therefore it is almost noiseless :)

[DivingWind]

But it is not a diesel sub, it's Hydrogen cell powered, it drives only with electric motors, therefore it is almost noiseless
Not quite!
The propulsion system combines a conventional system consisting of a diesel generator with a lead acid battery, and an air-independent propulsion (AIP) system, used for silent slow cruising, with a fuel cell equipped with oxygen and hydrogen storage. The system consists of nine PEM (polymer electrolyte membrane) fuel cells, providing between 30 and 50kW each.

[Smaragdadler]

But it is not a diesel sub, it's Hydrogen cell powered, it drives only with electric motors, therefore it is almost noiseless :)

I think, this is not correct. As far as I understand U212-A has a 'hybrid-propultion-system'. The screwback propeller is driven by a Permasyn Engine (less [or maybe no?] cavitation). This engine can get engergie from two different systems: For max speed it is driven by batterie, which has to be charged from time to time by a 'advanced' (silenced) dieselgenerator. Snorchel times are greadly redused. For low speed there is the Hydrogen cell engine, which produces only clean water as 'Exhaust gases'.

http://www.duxu.de/marine/U-Boote/3bundes/T212/Antriebsanlage.gif
http://www.duxu.de/marine/U-Boote/3bundes/T212/Diesel.gifhttp://www.hdw.de/bilder/schiffbau/brennstoffzelle.jpg
_________________http://www.duxu.de/marine/U-Boote/3bundes/T212/Motor.gif
Source: http://www.duxu.de/marine/U-Boote/3bundes/T212/technisches.html

[Seeadler]

www.naval-technology.com is wrong in this case, yesterday on German TV there was a long report about this sub and the HDW technicans said that the small diesel genrator is only use to recharge the batteries in case of technical breakdown of the power cell device and that there is no way to operate the screw directly by this diesel.

*Edit*
the blue pic above is the right pattern of the drive system

[Smaragdadler]

The diesel is used to *recharge* the batterie. So you have the possibility to drive longer distances... (as far as I understand this...)

[DivingWind]

Diesel engine still is main source for recharging batteries! And AIP is just to extend time underwater when batteries are out of juice.Also Hydrogen Oxygen cell engine is to power electrical devices.

[Smaragdadler]

I think for combat situation as long as undetected, you use the Hydrogen cells. For torpedo-evasion you switch to batterie.
Don't shure about ''travel-'times... :hmm: (can you use both or only the batteries...).

[DivingWind]

I gues they can manipulate all type of engines whatever way they want, when situation requiers. :yep:

[Kapitan]

normaly the diesel is just a generator the submarine works purely off of the battery id immagine the same sort of thing for this

[Skybird]

The Diesel is very much only an emergency backup. They are not expected to "charge batteries" under normal conditions during a trip, for all energy for board systems and engine is not coming from batteries, but directly from the fuel cells, the traditional diesel-battery-engine-concept cannot be compared to in this case - this is NOT a normal diesel sub with an added fuel cell. The engine is directly powered by the fuel cells. The energy in these fuel cells can only be replenished at harbour, by replacing and/or loading the cylindrical modules that store these ressources (they do indeed look like giant AAA battery cells, :) ) Normal operation of the the engine and screw is energized by the fuel cell only - always. Top secret propeller and fuel cell makes for so little noise at up to medium speed settings that the sub is described to be "undetectable by contemporary passive sonar even if sensors are just a "Katzensprung" away" (quoting a leading engineer of HDW in an interview with a defense affairs journalist at the beginniong of this year, a guy I once talked to). The same source told him that the "212 is easily the most "non-existing" sub in the water today."
The limited hull size (still much more room than in the 206 and 209) is referring to the roots of the project in the cold war. The 212 hull design was once meant for exclusive Eastern sea operations.

The duration of the sub beeing able to remain submerged without snorkeling or taking ressupplies is top secret, and various sources indicate various time frames from up to 3 weeks to up to 4 months. Since the sub is Germany's top intel gathering platform is is now meant to serve in that role globally, if wanted, and that requires long endurance capabilities. time and again German medias have pointed out that this sub can operate completely indepedent from surface (snorkelling, ressuplying) for "many, many weeks". That'S why some tend to think of it as "a nuclear sub without a nuclear engine."

but whatever - it looks damn sexy.

[DivingWind]

What is U 212 range at max speed submerged? (more or less)

[Smaragdadler]

:huh: So, then Seeadler was right.
What about the water produced by the fuel cells? How much is it all in all during a trip? Is it collected or 'goes it out' somehow instantly? And when the second, is there a possibility to get on the water from inside the Boot while under the surface? I have read it is clean 'like destilled water'. So one could sell it... "Stilles Wasser U212 (TM) Copyright Deutsche Marine". The techno kids will love it! If they make good marketing, they can soon order the next toy. (would have to check the crew after coming back of course...) Or when all goes wrong and you are laying on the bottom somewhere, waiting for the rescue-team. :arrgh!: (reines Planspiel natürlich...)

[XabbaRus]

My 212 :)

http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/2518/type212b3ch.jpg

It is missing that front lip bit and I am going to fix that but still can't figure out how without having to remap everything.

[DivingWind]

hhmm I can see only half of picture

[XabbaRus]

Seeing the whole thing here.

[Tgio]

Very nice reproduction of a very nice boat.

[XabbaRus]

Bow needs to be made a bit blunter which I have and I have added that lip.

I need to remap the model and put on a different screw.

[Smaragdadler]

Great work XabbaRus. :up:
About the screw:
http://zone.sousmarins.free.fr/h-U212-lancement.jpg
:arrgh!:

[XabbaRus]

Some how I don't think that is the real one....

No way they would display their screw tech for all to see ;)

[Smaragdadler]

It's the first pic you get, when you enter "u212" in german google pic-search engine.
And it seems to be from a french site. (don't really know if I should count that as a pro or con regarding fake or not ... :-j )

[Polak]

Would also say that it is fake...
http://homepage.eircom.net/~steven/images/gertype212.jpg
Found this pic, you clearly see that the screw has an other shape. ;)

[U-552Erich-Topp]

:up: I'm impressed, nice subs. Very small subs in size though. Reminds me of the IIA or IID size of subs. Good Hunting, Erich Topp U-552

[Kapitan]

i think a seven scew bladed propellor is used

[Ula Jolly]

Ooohman, that boat is just fantastic. The Germans are the only true submarine builders! This is like the XXI all over again :D

[Kapitan]

submarineers wet dream :D

[Stewy]

Awesome model Xab - looks very cool (even before your adjustments :) )

[Pigfish]

Nice work Xabb, as always. :up: Hope to see her in DWX some day.

Been so long I forget - do you still have a cargo ship and LNG?

[Deamon]

But it comes even better than it looks so fare. There is something i haven't seen mention any of the sources.

I rocked engineer who knows an u-boat commander of the german navy told to a friend of my that the commander told him that the typ212 is equiped with super cavitating rocked torpedos that can make more than 800 km/h !

He told him about trials and a manouver with typ212 against US Fleet. When i remember right 80% of the participating US Fleet was unihilated before it could strike back.

A maybe not so well know fact is that the germans experiment and develope super cavitating torpedos since WWII !!!

Possible that this information is true.

Have anyone else heared something about it ?

Anyway the 212A must be the ultimate frustration for the surface forces.

Deamon

[Smaragdadler]

Somewhere on the net I read about supercavitation and there was stated that first theoretical thinking and patents about supercavtorps was already done at the end of 19. century.
I have a book about Ohrdruf/Jonastal (the area in Thuringia which is beliefed was one of the places where secret high tech stuff was developed in underground caves and factories at the end of ww2). In this book there is a statement from someone who worked in on of the factories in the area and he told besides other stuff something about a "waterchanel in which were testet these new 'underwaterrockets".

Then I have found this statment: "...The American Supercav and the Russian VA-111 Shkval are both high-speed supercavitating torpedoes, 250 mph class (more recently, there are also the English MK70 SpearFish TL8 and the German Barracuda). ..."
Posted by: tokamak at July 22, 2005 06:16 AM
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/001688.html

[AceChilla]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/news%20photos/Todays/Continued/aabf615f.jpg

Close the hatch, and torpedo eins, Loss! :D

So everybody saying this boat rocks, but how would it compare to those enourmous American nuclear powered subs? one on one, would this one win? Whats so great about it?

[Kapitan]

Conventional or AIP submarines have the edge when it comes to quietness (no noisey water pumps for reactors).

the type 212 and 214 were said to be the quietest submarines in the world.

But it doesnt have the advantage of great speed diving deapth or lots and lots of wapons so it is at a disadvantage there.

But id like to sail in one if i had to come up against say the SSN21

[Skybird]

Whats so great about it?

from:
http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_U212,,00.html

"For starters, it is capable of being underwater for up to three consecutive weeks -- THREE WEEKS!

The secret behind the U212's underwater endurance lies in its air-independent propulsion (AIP) system. Developed by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft GmbH (HDW), the U212's AIP system uses a silently operating fuel cell plant. (...) Without a need to snorkel, the AIP system also allows the U212 to operate silently without emitting exhaust heat, reducing detection.

The U212 also uses a state-of-the-art sensory system (...) An integrated DBQS-40 sonar system aboard incorporates the following: a cylindrical array for passive medium-frequency detection; a TAS-3 low-frequency towed array sonar; a FAS-3 flank array sonar for low/medium frequency detection; a passive ranging sonar; a hostile sonar intercept system; and, an active high-frequency mine detection sonar - the STN Atlas Elektronik MOA 3070.

Besides carrying up to 24 sea mines externally, the submarine is armed with the DM2A4 torpedo from STN Atlas Elektronik. The DM2A4 -- aka Seahake Mod 4 -- is an electrically-driven torpedo that has a range of more than 27 nautical miles (50km) and a speed of approximately 50 kts. The DM2A4 uses new, conformal acquisition sonar, featuring 38 staves (152 transducers), which produce pre-formed, wide-angle beams. In addition, the Seahake utilizes a 250kg hexagon/RDT/aluminum high-explosive warhead (equivalent to 460kg of TNT) with magnetic influence and contact fuzes, as well as a wake sensor to improve torpedo counter-countermeasures capabilities.

Additionally, the U212's torpedo launchers have something most other submarines do not have -- a water ram expulsion system. Don't you wish you had one? Whereas the 688 Los Angeles class launches torpedoes using "noisy" compressed air, the Type 212's water ram expulsion system ejects the torpedo from the tube without the launch "transient" associated with using compressed air. In other words, the 212 can fire torpedoes stealthily, reducing the possibility for a counter attack."

Pics:
http://www.pbase.com/vikingspirit/ubootsubmarine

Most important, maybe: 212/214 is easily the most silent sub in the ocean today.

[OneShot]

On a documentation about the 212A class, the Captain of U31 (I think) said they had to abort a test drive where they were to record and check for their own accoustic signature because they couldn't hear it, and thats with barely someone else around to make noise and pretty good sonar conditions. Speaks volumes about the quietness of the sub ...

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Besides carrying up to 24 sea mines externally, the submarine is armed with the DM2A4 torpedo from STN Atlas Elektronik. The DM2A4 -- aka Seahake Mod 4 -- is an electrically-driven torpedo that has a range of more than 27 nautical miles (50km) and a speed of approximately 50 kts.

Probably at the max range it'd only be making like 20 knots and at max speed it might last only 10km considering the performance of other electric weapons including this one's A3 predecessor. Unlike electronics, this is an engine and fuel source (silver zinc battery) issue - there is no "magic" for revolutionary improvement in such things.

Additionally, the U212's torpedo launchers have something most other submarines do not have -- a water ram expulsion system. Don't you wish you had one? Whereas the 688 Los Angeles class launches torpedoes using "noisy" compressed air, the Type 212's water ram expulsion system ejects the torpedo from the tube without the launch "transient" associated with using compressed air. In other words, the 212 can fire torpedoes stealthily, reducing the possibility for a counter attack."

I would have thought water-ramming existed a long time ago because it reduces the use of compressed air at high depth launches?

[LuftWolf]

My gut tells me the 212/4 is probably the quietest submarine hull in the world with a slightly subpar (as compared to SSN21 or Virginia) sonar and weps system and the overall performance of a Collins on roids.

But that's just my Benegesserit training and no actual facts speaking...

[TLAM Strike]

"Sub Par" weapons compaired to the 21 and Va? The 212 isn't even in the ballpark! No TLAMs or VLS tubes on the 212. So thats basicly one whole form of combat the 212s can't do.

[LuftWolf]

"Sub Par" weapons compaired to the 21 and Va? The 212 isn't even in the ballpark! No TLAMs or VLS tubes on the 212. So thats basicly one whole form of combat the 212s can't do.

Well, the next time the Germans need to launch a cruise missile strike on Norway, you can remind them how much they should have put TLAM capability on their new subs. :lol:

I was only comparing the subs in terms of the missions they were designed to do... Germany and it's export partners don't find themselves needing to conduct off-shore bombardment very often, unlike we Americans. :rock:

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Well, the next time the Germans need to launch a cruise missile strike on Norway, you can remind them how much they should have put TLAM capability on their new subs. :lol:

I was only comparing the subs in terms of the missions they were designed to do... Germany and it's export partners don't find themselves needing to conduct off-shore bombardment very often, unlike we Americans. :rock:

Besides, what good will a TLAM strike really do without all the other gear. 12 1000 pound warheads come in, make a few dents, kill a few people, put an airbase out of action for a few hours till they fill the holes ... and that's it. As a component of a massive strike including reusable aircraft it is useful, by itself it is a pinprick.

[TLAM Strike]

A dozen TLAMs are really useful when you don't have a Carrier or Airbase near by or can't risk sending maned jets in to do the job. :yep:

[OneShot]

Well, as Lw mentioned, the question is ... what is the mission of the 212 class subs? It certainly is no H/K sub designed to roam the deep waters around the world. And it is definitly no SSG or SSB. The job of the 212 class is primarly intelligence gathering especially in littoral waters and SpecOps missions ... and I think we all agree that a TLAM is not the weapon of choice while on a SpecOps mission or while laying 2nm offshore gathering intelligence.

On the other hand you have the Seawolf class which is a designated H/K SSN, designed for one purpose - go alone deep into enemy waters and get as much enemy SSBN/SSGNs as possible before comming back to rearm (well thats how its stated in the "Third Battle").

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

A dozen TLAMs are really useful when you don't have a Carrier or Airbase near by or can't risk sending maned jets in to do the job. :yep:

Precisely, as a component in a combined arms air force it can be very useful. But Germany does not have power-projection to bring all the other components into play in most places.

Furthermore, Germany is still probably somewhat enshackled by WWII and the self-defense only stuff that came from it. Equipping their subs with a dedicated land-attack ability will cause furor. Probably less than Japan if she had done so, because Germany apologized to the satisfaction of most of its victims, but still considerable upset.

In a pinch, I'm sure you can use the torpedo tubes anyway with the proper electronics.

[GunnersMate]

How quiet compared to an Ohio?

[LuftWolf]

Well, the Ohio is really old technology, by the standards of digitally aided design and production, but that doesn't mean that it is enherently louder than anything produced recently...

However, considering the massive size difference and the inherent quietness of fuel-cell electrical propulsion verses nuclear propulsion, I'd say that it is safe to assume the 212/4 is significantly quieter than the Ohio.

Note, that "significantly" is in physical terms... whether that has an impact during actual operational conditions, well it's a crapshoot.

I'm really out of my depth here... don't know what I'm talking about, so don't listen to me... :yep:

[Enigma65]

Very nice reproduction of a very nice boat.

She is a pretty boat isn't she...has some very exact lines she does.

[Kapitan]

This would be the boat id want to go to war on.

[Kurushio]

The dining area (officers mess?) looks exactly like the one in the sub in Das Boot. Did they do this on purpose...? :-j

[JSLTIGER]

This would be the boat id want to go to war on.

I'm sorry, but if I had to go to war in a hunter/killer sub, I'd rather have a Seawolf or a Virginia any day.

[Kapitan]

We each have our own prefrencies, but its not about the submarine its about the captain and crew.

[JSLTIGER]

It's about both, I think...you could put the best crew in the world aboard something like a Foxtrot-class...but when you put them up to something like a Seawolf with a moderately trained crew (i.e. to the point of competancy), and I bet the Seawolf would win nine out of ten times.

[TLAM Strike]

It's about both, I think...you could put the best crew in the world aboard something like a Foxtrot-class...but when you put them up to something like a Seawolf with a moderately trained crew (i.e. to the point of competancy), and I bet the Seawolf would win nine out of ten times. Simple solution sent ten Foxtrots after each Seawolf. :up: :know:

[JSLTIGER]

It's about both, I think...you could put the best crew in the world aboard something like a Foxtrot-class...but when you put them up to something like a Seawolf with a moderately trained crew (i.e. to the point of competancy), and I bet the Seawolf would win nine out of ten times. Simple solution sent ten Foxtrots after each Seawolf. :up: :know:

But highly impractical, wasteful, and expensive.

[TLAM Strike]

It's about both, I think...you could put the best crew in the world aboard something like a Foxtrot-class...but when you put them up to something like a Seawolf with a moderately trained crew (i.e. to the point of competancy), and I bet the Seawolf would win nine out of ten times. Simple solution sent ten Foxtrots after each Seawolf. :up: :know:

But highly impractical, wasteful, and expensive. Wasteful yes but Foxtrots are fairly cheap (compaired to a Seawolf) the Soviets built over 50 of them. :yep:

[Kapitan]

Not to mention the whiskey class more than 250 built !