New Unit: US Mahan DD

[Commander1980]

Because there are only the Somers and the Clemson-class destroyers available for the US-Navy in the early years, i decided to mod a Mahan-class Destroyer. With 18 ships, this destroyer class was the largest US class of destroyers that was build (only) during the 1930s (to larger classes had been build from 1938 on, but also in war time).
See here for more information http://www.destroyerhistory.org/goldplater/mahanclass.html

The Mahan class underwent several refittings during the war, see the pictures on the website above. I decided to mod the earliest look, how they would appear in 1941 to 1943. Later in the war, the AA-armament was increased with Bofors 40mm and the aft guns become also shielded in 1944/45. The screenshot shows the 1943 configuration.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/8807/mahanclass1zk.jpg

for comparison:

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/140/mahan024zu.jpg


HELP NEEDED:
The modeling of the unit is completed (but you can suggest alterations :) ) and all files are ready. But there are still some texture mistakes. Because i found no way to change the position of the Torpedo-nodes, i had to use 3D-models instead for representing the torpedotubes. I have extracted the 3D-model from the guns.dat and importet them as objects to the Mahan dat-file. Unfortunately the new torpedotubes use the whole texture-file as skin.
My questions:

1) How can i change the position of the gun nodes

and / or

2) How can i get independant/working textures for the 3d-object-tubes?

thx in advance,
Commander

As soon it is ready, the ship can be released :)

[Marhkimov]

I dunno if it would be too much trouble for you, but if you did use another destroyer as a "base clone" for your Mahan, could you post both pictures so we can compare your mod changes??

You know... so we can see the difference between both of the ship's configurations.

[Commander1980]

No problem, it is based on the Somers (in fact, the Somers and the Mahan had similarities, they were build at the same time. The Somers was designed as heavy armed Flottila-leader-destroyer, and that is why she is virtually the wrong ship for hunting u-boats ;))

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/8807/mahanclass1zk.jpg

http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/5690/somers9cz.jpg

Changes:
2nd funnel (with resizing), 2nd mast, aft platform deleted, small tower on bridge deleted, torpedoobjects added, textures, armament. ;)

I think the fist funnel has to be a little more narrow. This is easy to do. If you look at the photos, there were some differences between the classmates. The small tower on the second mast can be added, but it is not seen on all ships. I think about that.

armament (real / Sh3-weapons)
- 2x5" Single turrets / 2x5InchSingle
- 3x5" Single unshileded / 3x4.7Inch unshielded
--> changes to 2 x4.7Inch unshielded and 1x40mm Bofors Twin in 1943
--> 2x5" turrets in lieu of the the two remaining unshielded guns in 1944.

[Commander1980]

This is the torpedo-tube-texture-problem :roll: :cry: :-?

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/9454/torpedotubething9fo.th.jpg (http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=torpedotubething9fo.jpg)

[Marhkimov]

I don't know if this is a feasable idea or not, but i'll say it anyway. Bear with me, I'm not really a modeller...

If the 'torpedo tube' object that you created has a .dat file, is it possible for you to import a skin into it?

[Commander1980]

I don't know if this is a feasable idea or not, but i'll say it anyway. Bear with me, I'm not really a modeller...

If the 'torpedo tube' object that you created has a .dat file, is it possible for you to import a skin into it?

No it is only an obj-file and i am not really a modeller, too ;) I think somewhere in the 3D-model of that torpedotube is some kind of texture-mapper (?) integrated, but i don't find it or don't know how to change it. Other object-models use specified parts of the texture.tga, so it should work. The best way is to replace the equipment-nodes by hex-editind. I tried a lot, but i think i haven't changed the correct strings.
If someone has an idea with the problems, i will send the files.

[iambecomelife]

Because there are only the Somers and the Clemson-class destroyers available for the US-Navy in the early years, i decided to mod a Mahan-class Destroyer. With 18 ships, this destroyer class was the largest US class of destroyers that was build (only) during the 1930s (to larger classes had been build from 1938 on, but also in war time).
See here for more information http://www.destroyerhistory.org/goldplater/mahanclass.html

The Mahan class underwent several refittings during the war, see the pictures on the website above. I decided to mod the earliest look, how they would appear in 1941 to 1943. Later in the war, the AA-armament was increased with Bofors 40mm and the aft guns become also shielded in 1943/44. The picture shows the 1943 configuration.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/8807/mahanclass1zk.jpg

for comparison:

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/140/mahan024zu.jpg


HELP NEEDED:
The modeling of the unit is completed (but you can suggest alterations :) ) and all files are ready. But there are still some texture mistakes. Because i found no way to change the position of the Torpedo-nodes, i had to use 3D-models instead for representing the torpedotubes. I have extracted the 3D-model from the guns.dat and importet them as objects to the Mahan dat-file. Unfortunately the new torpedotubes use the whole texture-file as skin.
My questions:

1) How can i change the position of the gun nodes

and / or

2) How can i get independant/working textures for the 3d-object-tubes?

thx in advance,
Commander

As soon it is ready, the ship can be released :)

That's an excellent looking model, Commander1980. Any plans for a Benson/Gleaves class ship? They're my favorite United States WWII DD class since they did so much of the fighting off Guadalcanal.

I'd like to second that request about texturing 3d objects. I successfully added a Hurricane to a merchantman yesterday for a CAM-ship but the project is stalled because there's no way to texture the fighter properly. Right now it appears textured as part of the ship's hull - not very attractive. I hope someone can find a way to resolve this.

[Commander1980]

[That's an excellent looking model, Commander1980. Any plans for a Benson/Gleaves class ship? They're my favorite United States WWII DD class since they did so much of the fighting off Guadalcanal.

yep, i wanted to mod Benson and Gleaves, but none of the existing ships fit. Mahan was relatively easy. Tiny line drawings can be found here:

http://members.tripod.com/~LCoat/shipdraw.htm

Look at the Fletcher (and also at the photos on that destroyer-page) - how bad the SH3-stock-Fletcher is modeled! :o :roll: !!

I'd like to second that request about texturing 3d objects. I successfully added a Hurricane to a merchantman yesterday for a CAM-ship but the project is stalled because there's no way to texture the fighter properly. Right now it appears textured as part of the ship's hull - not very attractive. I hope someone can find a way to resolve this.

yep, this is exact the same problem. Which programs did you use?

[iambecomelife]

[That's an excellent looking model, Commander1980. Any plans for a Benson/Gleaves class ship? They're my favorite United States WWII DD class since they did so much of the fighting off Guadalcanal.

yep, i wanted to mod Benson and Gleaves, but none of the existing ships fit. Mahan was relatively easy. Tiny line drawings can be found here:

http://members.tripod.com/~LCoat/shipdraw.htm

Look at the Fletcher (and also at the photos on that destroyer-page) - how bad the SH3-stock-Fletcher is modeled! :o :roll: !!

I'd like to second that request about texturing 3d objects. I successfully added a Hurricane to a merchantman yesterday for a CAM-ship but the project is stalled because there's no way to texture the fighter properly. Right now it appears textured as part of the ship's hull - not very attractive. I hope someone can find a way to resolve this.

yep, this is exact the same problem. Which programs did you use?

I used wings3d and the java version of pack3d. I'm in an awkward position because if I skin the fighter I'll most likely see RAF roundels and cockpits all along the ship's hull. I think I need to find out which portion of the dat file assigns a particular section of the TGA to a 3d model. I'm using the Commerce Raider merchant as a parent, and there's a big unassigned patch where the floatplane goes. Unfortunately there's no way to tell SH3 that I want the hurricane to use this square of the tga, and not some hull section.

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8915/nkgnt01copy9eq.jpg

Interestingly, the game doesn't even use this square of tga file for the stock AMC-mounted Arado. I remember that painting the entire square red had no effect on the aircraft's texture ingame. I wonder where it gets the texture from. It's a shame so much space was wasted, considering how often the textures repeat themselves.
I actually saw a 3d object in wings3d that was basically a small plane (as in flat surface) with the Arado texture on it; could this be what I'm looking for? Is there a way to open obj files in photoshop?
Oh, and I agree; the default Fletcher class has always scared me :roll: . When I was fooling around with Guadalcanal missions a couple months ago I noticed that making the model sit lower in the water improved its appearance slightly.

[iambecomelife]

One more thing, Commander. I've noticed that many prewar US Navy destroyers had no shields over the mountings for their aft guns, leaving the crews exposed to shrapnel and small caliber fire. Were the designers THAT desperate to avoid topweight problems, or was there another reason for this? I doubt that protection for the aft guns would have added more than a few tons to the vessels' total weight.

[Commander1980]

One more thing, Commander. I've noticed that many prewar US Navy destroyers had no shields over the mountings for their aft guns, leaving the crews exposed to shrapnel and small caliber fire. Were the designers THAT desperate to avoid topweight problems, or was there another reason for this? I doubt that protection for the aft guns would have added more than a few tons to the vessels' total weight.


Yep, i think this was because of the weight. It was very hard to find the best trim for the narrow, fine-lined destroyer, so every kg that can be spared was important. Especially the weak stern was problematic.

regarding your texture-problem:
when the game does not use the textures in the namc.tga, does it use the normal arado-tga? But i found no tga-file included regarding the arado-plane. Just try to extract the hipper-arado tga into data/textures/tnormal/tex, and change it, but i do not think it works.

[oRGy]

Can't help you with the texture problem commander, but the unit looks great overall.

:up:

[Commander1980]

Can't help you with the texture problem commander, but the unit looks great overall.

:up:

i "evaded" (?) the problem by using sansal's method. Now the unit uses correct working torpedotubes. No more texture problems. :)

[Marhkimov]

I know it might be a lot for you to handle, but do you also mod the reflections to match your ship? Like if you add a second funnel, do you know how to add a reflection for the funnel?

It's not really a big deal, as a lot of people won't bother to notice, but if you are a perfectionist or anything of the sort, you might want to give it a look?

[Commander1980]

yes, this is the thing i am currently working on ;)

[Commander1980]

This is the pre-release look (1939 armament). Incorporating following changes to the somers-model:
- removed small watch tower on the bridge
- aft platform removed
- second funnel with reflection added
- second mast added
- additional platform amidships added
- small starboard and port AA-gun platforms removed
- new torpedotubes at the sides
- added smoke-flap on (resized) first funnel

There are only some minor things to do, like textures and balancing.

If anyone have suggestions, say it, and i will see if it is possible :)

http://img446.imageshack.us/img446/4933/mahanclass6ly.jpg

[iambecomelife]

No suggestions, but one question: what do you use for your 3d modeling? Is it Wings3d or something else?

[Commander1980]

No suggestions, but one question: what do you use for your 3d modeling? Is it Wings3d or something else?

yep, wings 3d. I think it is very good to put objects together, to stretch, scale and move them. Because there were not enough 3dmodels available on the Somers-DD, i had to put them together.
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3764/wings3d2os.th.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wings3d2os.jpg)

This is an very easy thing and allows you to alter many details on the ship, so that it look independant from the original unit.

[sergbuto]

If anyone have suggestions, say it, and i will see if it is possible

What about making correct length? Somers is more than 116 m, and Mahan was only about 104 m. Will the damage model/system work correctly for all the parts?

[Commander1980]

If anyone have suggestions, say it, and i will see if it is possible

What about making correct length? Somers is more than 116 m, and Mahan was only about 104 m. Will the damage model/system work correctly for all the parts?

no chance yet, decktextures do not work, and CTD when exciting the game. :cry:

[iambecomelife]

If anyone have suggestions, say it, and i will see if it is possible

What about making correct length? Somers is more than 116 m, and Mahan was only about 104 m. Will the damage model/system work correctly for all the parts?

no chance yet, decktextures do not work, and CTD when exciting the game. :cry:

I've never experienced a CTD because of lengthening a unit but I have noticed another problem. Changing length causes the bow wave and propellers to appear in the wrong locations. The propeller problem might be easy to solve by moving the item in wings3d, but I don't know where the file for the bow wave is.

[Commander1980]

I've never experienced a CTD because of lengthening a unit but I have noticed another problem. Changing length causes the bow wave and propellers to appear in the wrong locations. The propeller problem might be easy to solve by moving the item in wings3d, but I don't know where the file for the bow wave is.

Interesting, with what option in wings3d did you changed the length?


Will the damage model/system work correctly for all the parts?

i have never fired a shot on the destroyer, yet. But i think, that the 2nd funnel will also cause the attached platform and the mast to be destroyed.

[iambecomelife]

I've never experienced a CTD because of lengthening a unit but I have noticed another problem. Changing length causes the bow wave and propellers to appear in the wrong locations. The propeller problem might be easy to solve by moving the item in wings3d, but I don't know where the file for the bow wave is.

Interesting, with what option in wings3d did you changed the length?


Will the damage model/system work correctly for all the parts?



i have never fired a shot on the destroyer, yet. But i think, that the 2nd funnel will also cause the attached platform and the mast to be destroyed.

I select the object, right-click, and lengthen it with the "scale-z axis" function. I should add that it works fine except when I lengthen the hull of a ship. I can understand why the nodes are in the wrong place, but the texturing is really weird. The game always decides to use the deck texture for most of the hull, and I get a skin that looks like it was painted by dockworkers on crack.

[Commander1980]

[

I select the object, right-click, and lengthen it with the "scale-z axis" function. I should add that it works fine except when I lengthen the hull of a ship. I can understand why the nodes are in the wrong place, but the texturing is really weird. The game always decides to use the deck texture for most of the hull, and I get a skin that looks like it was painted by dockworkers on crack.

yep the same. Scaling of the objects is no problem, i have changed many of the objects. But the hull-object does not work. Can anyone guess why?

Although 12 meters is a great difference, the two-funneld Mahan would have looked longer anyway :roll: ;) :lol: :up:

Nice work, Commander1980!

May I ask you to use your Mahan, as well as Flottenbeglider transformed штещ Torpedoboot in my mod, when you will have finished it? If you need detales for Mahan loadout I may e-mail it to you.

http://forum.sukhoi.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=48103
http://forum.sukhoi.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=48102

[Commander1980]

No problem, use it.

The Mahan class will be released in about two weeks.

[Commander1980]

i just want to mention that the work goes on. I have to remod the whole ship because of CTDs with the current version. I will also try to incorporate the amidships aa-platform from the original ship. Apart from this, i hope i can adjust the lenght, as sergbuto proposed.

Looking forward for it :up:

[Commander1980]

Bad news. Work on Mahan-class is delayed. I don't know when i am able to complete her. Until christmas i have a lot of work to do for my study and then i need a some vacation.

sorry for that. But i think the ship will be launched in the first weeks ot january.

[Marhkimov]

Bummer, but we can wait... I mean, we've waited this long, right?