Questions about sprint-drift tactics

[goldorak]

I'm trying to use sprint-drift tactics in single player in subs (for now) but I'm not sure if I'm proceeding correctly.
First, what is the recommended speed for the sprint ?
Does it have to be maximum speed or are we talking about tactical speed ?
And second, how much time does the sprint and the drift last ?
Oh, and last thing, between the end of drift and a new sprint do I have to change course ?

[Kapitan]

depth 200 meters spedd 14 knots 3 minuets all stop for a few more mins way i do it

[OKO]

depends on your ship and on the situation.
If you run, it's for something, is not because you heard about sprint-drift you should use it all the time ;)

some examples :

If the target come to you, of course you don't need any sprint, EXCEPT if you want to refine the interception point.

If you must reach a distant position quite quickly, HERE you will need sprint&drift.

But NEVER kill your stealth when you don't need to.
And never go to max speed : just look at the Db charts and understand this=> each more 3 Db your sound is doubled.

After this is just a matter of calculation of the time you need to reach the desired point.

Usually, with nukes, 20 knts is a good sprint speed, still quite quiet, and fast.

But when you drift, NEVER order to stop, as said Kapitain ...
Or your TA will fall in deep water and you will have an AWFULL TMA.

Of course, people using AC TMA can't see this, as AC will always manage to give you a good and very fast TMA whatever you do.
That's why lots of people consider TMA is very hard, if they try manual, when it is not.
Just because they don't know they have to take A LOT of care about positionning their ship and using right speeds.
Manual TMA force you to drive your ship as a real one, considering speed and attitude of the ship, when AC let you do whatever you want with your ship without feeling the counterpart of it.

In any case, if you want to make a manual TMA on a target, NEVER go under 7 knts.
So you can say, on sprint and drift, you speed will be beetween 7 knts and 20 knts (more than 20 only if you really need it -in case you are late on spot- but never under 7 knts).

The best thing to do, to cover the maximum of the area in the minimum of time with your sensor, is to do this =>

going 20 knts for 4 minutes, then changing course for good listening position, still at 20 knts for 1 mn, and then slow down.
This way, your TA will be aligned in the right direction to listen for contacts (or very close to be) when you will slow down.

With Akula (at this time) you need to slow down to 7knts to have the best detection capabilities, above, even at 8 knts, you lost detection capacities and under, you lost TMA accuracy, so 7 knts is THE speed to detect and to make the TMA with the Akula.
Not 6 or 8, 7knts.

For US subs, this vary from 7knts to 14knts for the 688i and from 7knts to 15knts for Seawolf.
You are still very quiet at these speeds.

Oh, and last thing, between the end of drift and a new sprint do I have to change course ?

of course yes : if you sprint, thats ONLY because you needed it, so this mean you speed up in the direction of the contact or supposed contact.
So, when you slow down, you need to go at least 35° to the left or right to detect the contact on your TA, as described above.
But you will need to see if there is any contact in your new blank area ...


You know Goldorak, it is not because you hear about a tactic you must use it. It depends on situation, and you must ask yourself "WHY should I do this".
If you do that, you will understand much better how to use it.

[SteamWake]

Got a question.

About how long does it take to bleed off 20 Knts of momentum to 7 ?

If Im understanding you correctly you never "stop" the screws so even durning the "drift" part you leave the helm at ahead slow ?

[OKO]

Got a question.

About how long does it take to bleed off 20 Knts of momentum to 7 ?

If Im understanding you correctly you never "stop" the screws so even durning the "drift" part you leave the helm at ahead slow ?

You could answer yourself to your first question, just test.

I never go under 7 knts in any occasions, except on very shallow waters.
This way, I can work as I wish on my TMA, with TA, the most efficient passive sensor.

[Orm]

OKO wrote


With Akula (at this time) you need to slow down to 7knts to have the best detection capabilities, above, even at 8 knts, you lost detection capacities and under, you lost TMA accuracy, so 7 knts is THE speed to detect and to make the TMA with the Akula.
Not 6 or 8, 7knts.


I am talking for the Akula now. Could you be more precise with this 7 knots rule? How did you come to this particular speed? Did you test it yourself?
You know that, with the Akula II, from 6 to 7 knots, your are jumping from 65 to 66 Db (see the Db charts).

[OKO]

I am talking for the Akula now. Could you be more precise with this 7 knots rule? How did you come to this particular speed? Did you test it yourself?
You know that, with the Akula II, from 6 to 7 knots, your are jumping from 65 to 66 Db (see the Db charts).


tested from beta 1, one year ago, yes.
I explained why above, I tought it was clear.

You better have 1Db more and staying able to make a good TMA.
Of course, if you use AC TMA, you can even stay at 2 knts, where the noise is at the lower value.
The AC TMA will do the impossible job you won't be able to do manually at this speed ....
AC TMA just prevent you to do a real tactical job, and authorize you to do every mistake that could kill the TMA if you process it manually.

But you made a mistake, at 6 AND 7 knts, Akula II is at 60Db, and Akula Impr is at 62 and 63Db, with MOD 2.01.
read again the chart.

Most people concentrate on making the less noise possible.
I think this is not a good obsession.
Of course, you better stay as stealth as possible, but without giving up your ability to work and tactical considerations.

I usually saw that on nuke matches, some people staying at very low speed.
But as you couldn't detect other subs farther than 5 or 6 miles, in the best conditions, I use active for this kind of matches.

1) plotting all contacts on passive and making a TMA on them
2) when I made all TMA on passive contact, even if I didn't found the ennemy, I launch 2 torps
3) after torps are in the water, my stealth is dead, so I use active to locate every contact
4) the new contact I will find will be the target, always. (but with MOD 2.01, this require really much work than before)
5) re directing torps to this contact, using active some times to relocate the target accuratly
6) when torps are 1 miles from the target, I open the seekers


As for torpedoes, active is the tool to hunt subs, nuke or diesels.
I'm pretty sure a real nuke commander will use it in a fight against another sub, just because it will give him a very accurate picture of the ennemy sub, at 4 times the range of passive.

Some people believe the most important thing is to detect the first the other. That is wrong.
The most important thing it to LOCATE the ennemy sub the first.
THIS IS a real advantage.
And Active do this, not passive, except if the target is following the same path for a long time, without detecting you.
In this case, the targeted skipper need to learn some tactical tips, like how to kill a TMA for the ennemy (changing speed and course regularly). Of course, these tacticals tips don't work against the magic AC TMA, always finding an accurate solution everytime, in every situations.

If you don't agree with this statment, why not proving me I'm wrong on the field ?
nothing better than a match to check assertions.
I like nuke matches.
ICQ : 16787906

[Tgio]

I assure OKO's system is VERY effective. He tried it on my skin :cry: .
The only things that could break it off are IMHO another pair of torps and/or a bunch of stallion or other SSM carried Torps on the bearing of the TIW report.

[Orm]

If you don't agree with this statment, why not proving me I'm wrong on the field ?
nothing better than a match to check assertions.
I like nuke matches.


Oh no, I do agree and thank you for your precious advices. As for a match, I am from the Seawolves community. So, It would be nice to meet there if you are not already a member.

http://seawolves.org/ssn/

[OKO]

I assure OKO's system is VERY effective. He tried it on my skin :cry: .
The only things that could break it off are IMHO another pair of torps and/or a bunch of stallion or other SSM carried Torps on the bearing of the TIW report.

I'm glad you understood the "who want to be the winner at sea must always attack" statment :roll:
not from me of course ...