Your First NWS?

[darksythe]

What was your first Naval Warfare Simulation

Mine was Silent Service on the Nintendo

I remember lots of tonnage in that game!!

[Ghost Dog]

The year was 1988. It was Sublogic's Up Periscope! on my Commodore 64C. I had a blast reliving the exlpoits of Mush Morton's USS Wahoo in the pacific.

The real hook for me though was 1989, Red Storm Rising on my ubiquitous little C-64. I became the armchair bubblehead I am today. My first campaign was spent commanding the USS Dace through the Norwegien Sea theatre in the 1988 campaign. My next command was the USS Key West, this time spending my time further north in the Barents Sea in 1992 campaign launching tomahawks at Murmansk and eventually sinking the Kremlin and Kirov!

I'll never forget my most memorable sub battle. It was off the coast of Norway, I was intercepting a wolfpack of Soviet subs. My intelligence said it was composed of diesel boats hugging the coast to get into the North Sea and ravage the shippings lanes. The Orion patrols picked the group up rounding the Nordkapp, but lost thier trail as they headed south. I had to sprint and drift around near Bergen till I found them. As I closed with the group, I found 2 Kilos, 1 Tango and 1 Juliet class. Given the shallow water, it became a real knife-fight. I ran aground and damaged the bow sonar trying to dodge the many torps. I managed to sink all but one Kilo, who escaped. I had to limp back to Falsane for repairs. Truly memorable.

[darksythe]

very nice i love hearing after action reports even if they are 17 years old :lol:

[Bill Nichols]

Mine was the one I wrote myself in Basic for the Apple II, way back when computers had only 48 kB of memory :o

My program was eventually published by Simulations Canada as 'Grey Seas, Grey Skies'.

[darksythe]

hey thats pretty cool that you designed your own sim.

by the way im sure you hear this all the time but i thank you for your contributions to the Naval sim community. I have been a frequent visitor to your site for years now.

And am patiently awaiting your Red Storm Rising Campaign. ;)

[LuftWolf]

"Gato" for the old Apple IIE, and then "688" (the one where you could play an Alfa or 688 with the start page being the LA breeching the surface on an emergency surface).

I still remember my dad yelling at me for turning left when he commanded hard to starboard. :lol: :rotfl:

[Sea Demon]

Jane's/Sonalysts 688(I) Hunter Killer.

Sea Demon

[Syxx_Killer]

My first was Command: Aces of the Deep. I loved that game. Having a dynamic campaign was simply amazing. It's funny, when I first started I had no idea about subs. Being there was no wake modeled in the game it took me quite a while to figure out which way was forward. :o :oops: :oops: :lol: Still have the game with box and all the books and maps in excellent condition. I'd love to get it going again, but I doubt it would work on WinXP with SP2. I remember back in the day thinking 21MB for a full install was alot. :rotfl: My biggest gripe with the game, though, probably would be the bugs. That thing was like crash city. I never knew when I would get the old "This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down." Man, those were the days. :rotfl: Another prominent bug was when I would try and use FAT and LUT torpedoes. If I tried to set them, I would get the blue screen of death. Never failed.

Shortly after, I picked up Silent Service for the NES at a clearance type of sale at a rental shop. Still have that as well with box and book. I loved sinking Jap tonnage. I still can't get that title music out of my head. :lol:

I actually don't remember when I started playing this one, but it was 688 Attack Sub for Sega Genesis. I never did actually figure out how to attack under water. I always did it the "old fashioned" way and used the periscope. Sometimes I didn't live, sometimes I did. I was always greatful for the times I did. :lol: Commanding the Russian sub was quite interesting.

One thing that always kind of bugged me with the console sub games were their inaccurate artwork. 688 Attack Sub had a destroyer sinking by the bow with the stern way up in the air. In the actualy game, however, the ships always sank while level. Same for Silent Service. That was one reason I liked Command: Aces of the Deep better at the time. I liked watching the ships sink. :lol:

After those sims I came across 688(i) Hunter/Killer at Wal*Mart in the bargain bin. It was a CD-Rom Classics. I picked it up. Fell in love with it. I never thought I would be able to get the game because of how technical it was. I guess it was because of the ships that I stuck with it. I don't like complex flight sims, but I do like complex subsims. :lol: After 688(i) Hunter/Killer, I got Sub Command. Today it is Dangerous Waters and Silent Hunter III that take up my time. Both are just amazing. The thing that I like about Silent Hunter III the best, is that it is a lot like Command: Aces of the Deep. It is like a blast to the past. With the addition of surface vessels to Dangerous Waters and the wide array of sub-surface vessels, it is always a different experience.

But looking back to the subsims of old, it just seems like there is an aura about them that modern subsims lack. The experience of Command: Aces of the Deep was top notch. Going on patrol in Silent Service and coming across the enemy was something. I always liked the sound of torpedoes launching. :arrgh!: 688 Attack Sub just had a different atmosphere to it. I got to know the death scenes quite well with both the American and Russian sub. :shifty: 688(i) Hunter/Killer had good music, and it set the stage while hunting down the enemy. I loved how the ships broke in two. Which they would on Sub Command and Dangerous Waters. :lol: I was very mad, when the computer at the time had the CD-Rom drive go out. The tech that came out installed a trayless CD-Rom drive. After that, 688(i) was never recognised again. :damn: :hulk: :( :( I was so mad, because it would work on other computers. It wasn't until that computer was replaced about 2 years later that I could get it running again. By that time, Sub Command had arrived on the shelves and I started playing that. Haven't touched 688(i) H/K in ages.

Phew! That's a lot of rambling. Sorry about that. Hope you could stay awake. :oops: :lol:

[Bellman]

688 Atack sub and Aces on the Amiga 1200.

With 688 I liked the 3D external 'sonar' views which allowed stealth navigation into interesting topography.

Stalking and avoidance were great fun which was lost in the later issued EA SNN Seawolf.

[goldorak]

What was your first Naval Warfare Simulation

Mine was Silent Service on the Nintendo

I remember lots of tonnage in that game!!



My first Naval Warfare Simulation ?

Not much of a choice (I've been playing exclusively with flight sims since 1987); so Dangerous Waters is my first naval sim. :)

[Molon Labe]

Fleet Command. I was working at a library and saw it; decided to try it, then decided I wanted to buy it. It came with F/A-18 and 688I....688I hooked me on subsims....

[Sea Demon]

Fleet Command. I was working at a library and saw it; decided to try it, then decided I wanted to buy it. It came with F/A-18 and 688I....688I hooked me on subsims....

Fleet Command is one great sim also. That one was my second. As a matter of fact, I have never removed it from my machine since I got it years ago. I manage to play a scenario or two at least once every couple of weeks.

Sea Demon

[Smaragdadler]

Mine was the one I wrote myself in Basic for the Apple II, way back when computers had only 48 kB of memory :o

My program was eventually published by Simulations Canada as 'Grey Seas, Grey Skies'.

This may be of interest:
:ping: http://eager.back2roots.org/PROG/N/NICHOLSW.HTML#GEN
:ping: http://www.virtualapple.com/greyseasgreyskiesdisk.html

[magick]

What was your first Naval Warfare Simulation

Mine was Silent Service on the Nintendo

I remember lots of tonnage in that game!! My first naval subsim was "Silent Service" on C64, great game! But the second game I played on C64 was even better: Red Storm Rising, I still play it today:) Red Storm Rising was very advanced for a game from 1988 with very good sonar and weapons stations, even the "new" seawolf and typhoon class subs were available (in real life they where still under construction I think). Had many "dogfights" in my L.A. class sub against modern sierra's:) And many times I had russian "udaloy" dd's on my tail:) Oh those were fine day's:)

[Hellcat]

Silent Service on the NES, yep thats right I had it on the good old original :|\ Had a great time stalking ships in front of the TV. For its time it had everything a kid could want. Even before that I was playing the Grandest Fleet on my old PI-60MHz oh how I miss those days...

[Bill Nichols]

Mine was the one I wrote myself in Basic for the Apple II, way back when computers had only 48 kB of memory :o

My program was eventually published by Simulations Canada as 'Grey Seas, Grey Skies'.

This may be of interest:
:ping: http://eager.back2roots.org/PROG/N/NICHOLSW.HTML#GEN
:ping: http://www.virtualapple.com/greyseasgreyskiesdisk.html

Interesting! I wrote all of the games listed there, except for Weapons Free! WF was a game proposal that I made to Red Storm, but they turned me down :(

[PeriscopeDepth]

You wrote Red Sky at Morning Bill? I've actually been playing that recently. Pretty in depth game, and on a global scale too!

Edit: Oh, and my first NWS was Fast Attack.

[Kapitan]

SSN by tom clancy

[Tgio]

Mine was Red Storm Rising on the beloved C64. I haven't words for it... Still remembering the very deep story (By Tom Clancy) and graphics.
In fact I've played the game before reading the book...
A fantastic thing that I miss are satellites patrolling the skyes. Don't remember another games with them.
Sigh.

After that the only naval sims that I have missed are DC and Fast Attack.

Oh boys... I have to start searching for a C64 emulator right now. :-j

[Kind Seas]

Tom Clancy SSN..... I loved that game, I wish DW had it where we could kill some Whales LOL

[bishop]

Sid Meier's original Silent Service on my Atari 800 back in 1986.

[Smaragdadler]

...
Oh boys... I have to start searching for a C64 emulator right now. :-j

Here is your emulator:
http://www.c64games.de/phpseiten/images/emulatoren/ccs_dos.gif
http://www.c64games.de/programme/CCS64%20V3.0%20Beta%201.7.zip

And here are the games:
http://web1.reseller20.publicompserver.de/images/r/red_storm_rising_2.gif
Red Storm Ricing
http://www.c64games.de/phpseiten/spieledetail.php?filnummer=465

http://web1.reseller20.publicompserver.de/images/s/silent_service_2.gif
Silent Service
http://web1.reseller20.publicompserver.de/images/s/silent_service_2.gif

http://web1.reseller20.publicompserver.de/images/d/destroyer_epyx_inc_2.gif
Destroyer
http://www.c64games.de/phpseiten/spieledetail.php?filnummer=381

http://web1.reseller20.publicompserver.de/images/d/destroyer_escort_2.gif
Destroyer Escort
http://www.c64games.de/phpseiten/spieledetail.php?filnummer=3757

http://web1.reseller20.publicompserver.de/images/c/carrier_command_2.gif
Carrier Command
http://www.c64games.de/phpseiten/spieledetail.php?filnummer=545

http://web1.reseller20.publicompserver.de/images/j/jagd_auf_roter_oktober_1.gif
Jagd auf Roter Oktober dt. (= Hunt for Red October [german])
http://www.c64games.de/phpseiten/spieledetail.php?filnummer=1566

http://web1.reseller20.publicompserver.de/images/s/strike_fleet_2.gif
Strike Fleet
http://www.c64games.de/phpseiten/spieledetail.php?filnummer=2149

http://web1.reseller20.publicompserver.de/images/p/pirates_2.gif
Pirates
http://www.c64games.de/phpseiten/spieledetail.php?filnummer=460&screenshot=2

http://web1.reseller20.publicompserver.de/images/p/pirates_of_the_barbary_coast_2.gif
Pirates of the Barbary Coast
http://www.c64games.de/phpseiten/spieledetail.php?filnummer=1436

http://web1.reseller20.publicompserver.de/images/p/power_at_sea_2.gif
Power At Sea
http://www.c64games.de/phpseiten/spieledetail.php?filnummer=390

http://web1.reseller20.publicompserver.de/images/s/sub_battle_simulator_2.gif
Sub Battle Simulator
http://www.c64games.de/phpseiten/spieledetail.php?filnummer=4037

All this and more is to be found here:
:ping: http://www.c64games.de/

[Tgio]

...
Oh boys... I have to start searching for a C64 emulator right now. :-j

CUT


Thanks, but I've found and downloaded them while writing my message... :sunny: :sunny: Norwegian Sea, I'm coming back! :arrgh!:

[Pole]

What was your first Naval Warfare Simulation

Red Strom Rising on C64 :up:
It was great ! RSR's campaing was really cool although lack of some things (e.g. TMA-like feature) didn't allow for "simulation" of a sub, but, hey, it was 1989 or 90 when I played it ;) Anyway, I loved it and this game triggered my interest in submarine warfare/sims/technology etc. :rock:

Pole

[MarkShot]

Cool pics! I have been playing quite a few older games recently: AOD, SH1, and SMG/SMA/WNLB/ANGV. {Tried CC3/CC4/CC5 also, but for SP the AI was very lacking.}

So, how is game play in some of those older C64 games compared to AOD and SH1? Are they classics or just old games?

Thanks.

[Smaragdadler]

Some are classics (Red Storm Ricing, Silent Service, Pirates ( :rock: )...) other may be good, but never got the needed attention, some may be crap. I have not played them all. If you want play a real cult game (nothing about naval sim, through) try this:

http://web1.reseller20.publicompserver.de/images/g/great_giana_sisters_2.gif
The Great Giana Sisters
(to my knowedge the first real female computer game hero star. Laura Croft is something of a newcomer...)

And Mario is just a little pussy... :arrgh!:
http://www.angusm.demon.co.uk/AGDB/DBA1/GGSis.html

[SteamWake]

Guys !

He said Naval Combat SIMULATOR ! :P

and my answer is "Harpoon" :know:

Not from the same catagory but still one of the best "simulators" around is Falcon 4. :up:

[darksythe]

Yes ill agree that falcon 4 is the all time best air combat simulator. Try Falcon 4 AF lots of improvements there!

[Bill Nichols]

Yes ill agree that falcon 4 is the all time best air combat simulator. Try Falcon 4 AF lots of improvements there!

Janes F/A-18 is a very close second, and it IS naval! :up:

[OKO]

As a "retired" flight simmer, I played both of them for years (before switching to SC and orbiter) : F4 and FA18
F4 is certainly the best in BVR fights and dogfight, but technically speaking, FA18 is probably better, especially on ground attack, where the choice of weapons and sort of engament are really amazing.
Both are fantastic simulations, really above the others modern flight sims, need lots of training, but give lots of pleasure.
Especially with online/LAN flights.

[XabbaRus]

Mine was the one I wrote myself in Basic for the Apple II, way back when computers had only 48 kB of memory :o

My program was eventually published by Simulations Canada as 'Grey Seas, Grey Skies'.

Bill what happened to that Sturgeon class control simulator you were working on a year or so ago?

[Bill Nichols]

Mine was the one I wrote myself in Basic for the Apple II, way back when computers had only 48 kB of memory :o

My program was eventually published by Simulations Canada as 'Grey Seas, Grey Skies'.

Bill what happened to that Sturgeon class control simulator you were working on a year or so ago?

Too many projects, not enough time :(

[Tgio]

Here is your emulator:
CUT
And here are the games:
CUT

I've been lucky as usual... It hangs after I attach the image of disk 2. Will look on the net for another image. :up:
Boys, I still can't belive the astonishing work done byMP.

[XabbaRus]

How I remember names like Sid Meier and Max Riga.

What happened to Microprose and for that matter Orion who made Wing Commander series.

It seems that there are no smallish independent sim makers.

Sierra were good too. Also is Lucas Arts still going, I loved the Day of the Tentacle and the Start Wars sims.

[bishop]

Also is Lucas Arts still going, I loved the Day of the Tentacle and the Start Wars sims.

Larry Holland, who wrote the Star Wars series, also made 3 great WWII sims for Lucasarts, Battlehawks 1942, Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe and one of my all time favorites, Their Finest Hour:The Battle of Britain. TFH also had one of the best manuals ever made for a game.

[LuftWolf]

The manual of Their Finest Hour was the absolute origin of my interest in military matters. An absolutely amazing inclusion for an amazing game. :rock:

[Tgio]

How about "F-14 fleet defender"? While you were flying your own missions you can see other air/sea battles going on... Fantastic!

[bishop]

How about "F-14 fleet defender"? While you were flying your own missions you can see other air/sea battles going on... Fantastic!

Fleet Defender is my favorite modern jet sim, ever. I still play it on an old Win98 machine, those 80's era cold war campaigns over the North Cape are a still a blast to play...

[SteamWake]

but technically speaking, FA18 is probably better, especially on ground attack, where the choice of weapons and sort of engament are really amazing.


At the risk of diverting this thread but I think F4 (espicially the new allied force version) is probebly the most "technically accurate" espicially when it comes to ground pounding. Little details are what makes the difference. Things like not being able to see through mountains with radar, not being able to pick a target out clearly from 40 miles out. The degree of uncertainty when you lock a target and afraid to launch because you dont know if its friend or foe.

But all the "technical" aspects put aside what sets F4 apart from other games is its dynamic campaign. No small technical feat which has not been duplicated since. I mean here is a war where your actions really do have a direct impact on the outcome. Here is a war where you can look out the canopy and literaly see it for your own eyes.

Ill be frank I was dissapointed with DW's "campaign". It seems canned restrictive and lacks scope.

[Wim Libaers]

How I remember names like Sid Meier and Max Riga.

What happened to Microprose and for that matter Orion who made Wing Commander series.

It seems that there are no smallish independent sim makers.

Sierra were good too. Also is Lucas Arts still going, I loved the Day of the Tentacle and the Start Wars sims.


Origin, not Orion. If you liked Wing Commander, I'd recommend:
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/
And remakes of Privateer:
http://priv.solsector.net/
http://wcuniverse.sourceforge.net/
differences between the two remakes are explained here:
http://priv.solsector.net/faq_d01.htm
there's also (very early version, more ambitious):
http://wcu.solsector.net/

Of course, the original games are still available, sometimes even dowloadable with DOS emulator included, but their legal status is somewhat questionable so I'm not posting links. Besides, the control is much better in the remakes, with 4-axis joystick support. the original control schemes were (IMHO) rather awkward.



At the risk of diverting this thread but I think F4 (espicially the new allied force version) is probebly the most "technically accurate" espicially when it comes to ground pounding. Little details are what makes the difference. Things like not being able to see through mountains with radar, not being able to pick a target out clearly from 40 miles out. The degree of uncertainty when you lock a target and afraid to launch because you dont know if its friend or foe.

But all the "technical" aspects put aside what sets F4 apart from other games is its dynamic campaign. No small technical feat which has not been duplicated since. I mean here is a war where your actions really do have a direct impact on the outcome. Here is a war where you can look out the canopy and literaly see it for your own eyes.

Of course, F/A-18 had its advantages too:
More weapons, especially GPS-guided weapons (a major deficiency of Falcon 4).
Fewer bugs. People are complaining about buildings floating in the air in the Balkans, making them too hard to hit. Such issues (which should be fixed) have a rather big impact on ground attack realism.

Not being able to see through mountains and identification are features that are also present in other sims.

[Amizaur]

"Little details are what makes the difference"

And it's so true in ALL simulation games :)

My firstnaval game? Silent Service on my uncle's Atari 65XE about 17 years ago :D. Great game, I was 13 or so and my Mam said I could sit over it quiet for several hours and only my red ears showed my excitement wwhen I was aprroaching a convoy :)
Then was Pirates! on my own Amiga 500 about 15 years ago ;)
And yes, the Great Giana Sisters too :up: for me the greatest platform/arcade game ever!
And not much later after Pirates! - the immortal HARPOON, on Amiga too!
Played it for YEARS :) as long as different little bugs and poor AI of computer enemy killed all playability for me (it's not funny when you know where and when the enemy will show and can win nearly every scenario with zero losses playing each side) . But this was at least 5 years after I first played it, so very long :). And even today I would love to play Harpoon with human player as opponent :up:
What beside this... Great 688 Attack Sub on Amiga too, great game then, Red Storm Rising and it's campaigns... I was dreaming then about a sub sim that would join best aspects of both games into one even better :)
Later well not much more, because I had still an Amiga (and I have it even today, though very rarely use it now). There were not much good naval sims on Amiga those years... So only few years ago when I bought a PC I tried SC (immediately next day upgraded it to SCX so didn't play stock SC more than a day :) ) and loved it, tried also Harpoon 2 but although more realistic, I didn't liked it as much as old Harpoon. And still it wasn't possible to play with human opponent. So I switched to other wargames like Steel Panthers WaW and the GREAT Combat Mission series. And now is DW which becomes really great game when the most important bugs are being fixed and it's modding potential shows up :)

P.S. Yeah, the time goes on... When was the last time you seen the classic words "Game Over" on your monitor ? ;)

[XabbaRus]

Origin that was it.

what happened to them?

Anyway I am downloading all three, just what I have been looking for for ages.

Cheers mate

[LuftWolf]

I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned the classic "Wolfpack".

It was one of the first games to model "both sides" playing, as you could play as a destroyer and U-boat, as well as technical progression, the early destroyers didn't have much technology and the later ones had active/passive sonar, hedghogs, radar, etc.

Also, you could have proper Wolfpack tactics, switching from boat to boat.

I think it had MP too, but I don't remember too clearly.

[darksythe]

@ LW Does this mean your back from your trip?

[LuftWolf]

Hey yeah! :sunny:

I'm not sure I'm going to get online tonight, but tomorrow for sure, I'm going to try to dive in the mid-afternoon or evening.

ICQ me. :up:

Cheers,
David

[Bort]

Aah, Wolfpack! What a spectacular game. I am honored to have played it as my first naval sim :rock:

[Wim Libaers]

Origin that was it.

what happened to them?


More or less the same thing as what happened to e.g. Westwood (and lots of other game makers): they encountered EA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_Systems

[darksythe]

Speaking of Orio makes me think about the Wing Commander series now there was a series of games that kept yah coming back for more each and every time.