Convoys acting strange after RUB/Ops

[HEMISENT]

This is the third time I've encountered this behaviour. It does not happen every time but it is annoying.

After installing RUB/Ops mod (which I love by the way)I've noticed something odd with the way the merchants react to my initial attack.

Currently I'm in April 1943, new career in a type VIIC west of Ireland. I have encountering a NB convoy of a dozen ships or so made up of c2's, a couple tankers and misc smaller merchants. 3 destroyers escorting. daytime in perfect weather.

After locating and attacking the convoy all the merchant ships just sort of slow down and come to a stop. Seems the first torpedo impact triggers some sort of action putting the merchants on hold. Some merchants reduce speed and mill around changing course but still remain with the herd, others just sit still as if waiting to be picked off. The escorts act normally as expected after an attack. Only after awhile with no further torpedo impacts do they start up and resume course. I know this because I'm deep at silent speed usually getting the crap dc'd out of me. Same scenario each time. If somehow I'm able to reload and continue the ships just sit and take it.

Usually the ships begin zig-zagging immediately as would normally be expected. I do not recall this ever happening prior to RUB/Ops.

Has anyone else encountered this?

[Gizzmoe]

I have also seen this a few times with non-RUb SH3.

[HEMISENT]

Really, something I've not encountered until only recently. Could be another game bug?

[jasonb885]

Really, something I've not encountered until only recently. Could be another game bug?

I've seen them slow down from 9 kts to 5 or 6 kts after I hit a ship. I think it's a ship in the front, but I don't know if the behavior happens for any ship or not. I haven't had them scatter around recently, but I've seen it before.

I don't know what specifically triggers it or if there's a resolution.

[FAdmiral]

I have never seen them stop completely with my RUB 1.41 and
1.4b patch. Of course, I have not gotten to 1943 yet. Still in
9/40. They will change speeds and manuver somewhat but
always in the end they go back to original speed & course.
I find the escorts stick around way too long to find & DC you
while they should be protecting the convoy. A small wolfpack
could have a fieldday with this setup but maybe the game
designers knew there were no wolfpacks so they just programmed it this way....


JIM

[Beery]

This is a little-known bug with the standard game (it's not RUb-related). If you hit the ship in the convoy that the game has designated as the lead ship, and if it slows down without sinking, the rest of the convoy will slow down in an effort to maintain formation. I think if you sink the ship the convoy will probably start up again.

It's funny that so many standard game bugs are blamed on mods. Shoddy game design gives mod-makers an undeserved bad name. :know:

[rulle34]

I have never experienced that with Rub 1.43. :nope:

Only thing I've noticed is that convoys very seldom is a little bit "messed up" It looks like they are on their way of "organize" them selfes in to a convoy. After a while they are set and go. Maybe this is when the convoy just have spawned? :hmm:

[HEMISENT]

Beery
I was not blaming this on the RUB mod only stating that I had never experienced it before. As gizmoe stated he has experienced this non- RUB.

As you know from past posts I truly appreciate the work all you guys do. Perhaps the way I worded the topic was a bit misleading...sorry

As for your thoughts on the lead ship theory that makes sense. The first ship I targeted was a lead c2 center lane. It did not go down but in fact is slowly taking its time to sink. (I saved the game while at sr/deep and came back just a while ago). I've been getting dc'd for about 2 hrs now(game time), the original c2 is completely stopped, still flooding at the stern and the rest of the ships are finally underway. Hope the escorts take a hint and leave soon too.
I honestly cannot recall the circumstances with the two previous convoys I referred to. very possible it was the "lead ship" situation. I tend to get in front of the convoy 90 deg to heading and target the lead ships first then dive and head opposite the convoy heading letting the ships pass over me. This makes it a little tougher on the escorts and I have a chance to take a close stern shot while getting a jump on reloading.

Will definately keep this in mind on the next one and see what happens.

[Beery]

Beery
I was not blaming this on the RUB mod only stating that I had never experienced it before. As gizmoe stated he has experienced this non- RUB.

As you know from past posts I truly appreciate the work all you guys do. Perhaps the way I worded the topic was a bit misleading...sorry

I'm not blaming you. I was just pointing out a general truism about mods. My point was that, when people are using a mod, the assumption they tend to automatically make on finding a bug is that the mod is causing it. I was just making that observation. I'm really blaming the developers - if they had made a bulletproof game I think I'd get a heck of a lot less RUb bug reports. :D

I suppose I'm also trying to aim a bit of a barb at those fear-mongers who routinely criticize mods and claim that they are amateurish bug-ridden disasters, and what they use as their ammunition are the many bug reports that people innocently tie to a mod they recently installed.

I guess I'm always just a bit disappointed that people generally tend to have a lower opinion of mods than they have of commercial game software. After all, if mods and commercial games were regarded purely based on the actual professionalism of their construction, threads like this would be titled simply "Convoys acting strange in SH3" because, since mods are usually better-constructed than the games they modify, people wouldn't automatically assume that mods would be the 'usual suspects' for causing a bug.

Anyway, I rambled on a bit there. I'm not upset about your post, and I didn't mean to single you out for criticism.

[FAdmiral]

HEMISENT, if you have a merchant dead in the water or even
moving very slow (1-2 kts), hide under it till the escorts give up
and leave to join the convoy. You don't take such a pounding
that way....


JIM

[jasonb885]

This is a little-known bug with the standard game (it's not RUb-related). If you hit the ship in the convoy that the game has designated as the lead ship, and if it slows down without sinking, the rest of the convoy will slow down in an effort to maintain formation. I think if you sink the ship the convoy will probably start up again.

It's funny that so many standard game bugs are blamed on mods. Shoddy game design gives mod-makers an undeserved bad name. :know:

I thought as much, but in my testing seemed to find I nearly always managed to sink that lead ship, almost as if it was fate itself. It's a very odd bug.

:damn:

[Wulfmann]

Well, the completive gamer in us will say Hmmmmmmmm, if I disable the lead ship, I can cause a traffic jam which will cause the escorts to hold position, pick them off and I can go off silent to reload and have a field day. But, this would be very unRUBish

One possible help (Jason??) would be to change the lead ship to a coastal freighter. The only time I target a smaller ship is with my stern tube as I want to make the 4 bow count on bigger tonnage. And, I would choose a small merchant for this not a coastal.
Just suggesting a practical idea.

They also bunch up at waypoints with spacing at 400. But, in RUB this should not happen as Jason increased the spacing.

I have come on convoys (not recent after modding spacing) that were all bunched up and had not yet been attacked.

In real life they had problems when large attacks occurred but usually ships getting separated or hoping to survive speed up away from the battle only to often find it was a bad move.
Unfortunately, these are not done in SH3

Wulfmann

[jasonb885]

Well, the completive gamer in us will say Hmmmmmmmm, if I disable the lead ship, I can cause a traffic jam which will cause the escorts to hold position, pick them off and I can go off silent to reload and have a field day. But, this would be very unRUBish

One possible help (Jason??) would be to change the lead ship to a coastal freighter. The only time I target a smaller ship is with my stern tube as I want to make the 4 bow count on bigger tonnage. And, I would choose a small merchant for this not a coastal.
Just suggesting a practical idea.
...

It's possible, but for example, if you had a leader of a small merchant x 3, which one of the 3 does the game pick? I'm not sure if the game actually respects your leader choice or not...

:hmm:

[FAdmiral]

While in port before my 8th patrol, I installed the searchlight
mod. The first ships I encounter were 2 merchants traveling
together BUT at 1 kt??? It was pitch black night (1330) so I
waited on the surface for them to come to me. At about 1500
meters away, they both suddenly turned on their searchlights
and I was detected. I was dead stopped and just sat there
looking at them. They both then went to 0 speed and just sat
there with their lights trained on me. I let 30 minutes go by.
Nothing Happened??? I then torped the small merchant and
it blew up and sank. The C3 didn't do anything for the next
30 minutes??? I then torped it and it too finally sank. I sure
hope that was an exception rather than the way the mod will
handle future events. It had never happened during the first
7 patrols this way. I will keep playing and see how future events
pan out. I can't see how the mod would have done this unless
the ships were changed more than I realized. They weren't, were
they? (question for the mod maker)


JIM

[Wulfmann]

I never have the first convoy ship as a multiple. But, I agree in that I also do not know what the game decides as I have not tested it. Some things are too hard to run a test because they are in a campaign and a single missions may or may not be conclusive.
Since I have increased spacing from 400 (first up to 900 and then back to 500-600) I have attacked well over 100 convoys.
I have not known to attack or not the lead ship, what ever that is. We could , for a test, make the lead ship and odd country, a new C2 that was never in the game, and see what happens when we sink it, if we ever find it, LOL

Wulfmann