Skybird
09-15-05, 06:21 AM
First: is there a remedy or will it be adressed in a patch
... that AI subs happen to run aground at times if ground is raising gently, and sits still on that position for the remainder of the game? If that sub was holding a vital role in the scenario, the match is blown up by that.
... that ships still happen to run offshore at times?
GRRRR, 1:1 bug copies from SC.
... that AI subs on rare occasions blow themselves up when running into the ground with not slow speeds and that ground is raising steeply, not gently as in the example above?
... that torpedoes (ADCAPS, I did not play with the Akula) occasionally do not stay on depth at which they were fired at, but run to post-enable- depth as if they are active, but they still are miles away from activation point? Or is it some intention that I do not understand? It happens rarely, not regularly, that's what irritates me.
* is torpedoe speed and depth a factor that determines pickup range on sonar? I fired 55kn fish shallow and 35 speed deep, but enemy surface unit started to sprint at approx. 15 klicks in both cases. How to sneak in a slow, deep fish? With a sub as target it is even more impossible, it seems to me. Do I handle it wrong?
* this Kilo bug many had reported, did I get it right now that Kilo seems to be far louder than it actually is, but it's sonar having a longer pickup range than it should have? I'm not sure if I perceived it correctly, but somehow the Kilo definetly feels weired. AI kilos also hang around at snorkel depth a very huge ammount of time, and do it repeatedly in a mission of just a few hours? Intention? Shouldn't my sonar pick up a snorkeling sub more easily?
* movies and novels make a big thing of this for dramaturgical reasons, at least at close ranges it makes sense to me: the flooding, pressure equalizing and opening of muzzle hatches is still not modelled as a noise signal that is picked up on sonar and makes the AI react?
* sound problems: occasionally wavering sound, as if one is continously moving the sonar cursor over an SSN contact, so humming on - off - on - off - on - off in second'S change. It permits any other sounds beeing played for as long as it is there. It ends after one up to several minutes, or never for the remainder of the game. I checked sound card and drivers and such, all lamps are green here (Audigy 2, most recent driver, no problems whatsoever in other sims)
... that braking through the ice is not picked up by enemy sonar, even if unit is close by?
* and what is it that sometimes I can circle an enemy surface or sub unit endlessly in a 688, at very close range without getting picked up and AI never reacting? Did that repeatedly with campaign missions now, especially the second. Have they orders by mission editor to ignore me? Where is the sense in that mission, then?
* Basic sound levels of SSN and SS - I cannot bring it down to one point, but sometimes I scratched my head and asked it be like this? Well, subjective impression only. Sometimes some obervations in that regard simply irritate me.
Just some questions of mine, additionally to those that already have been raised by others in recent weeks and months.
===========================================
My résumé with DW so far: in a summary, the whole package is somewhat "round" and surely nice and complex, but thinking about what I have seen so far, and taking into account what other issues had been reported by others, my impression is that it got released too early and could have needed more caretaking for details that are no undiscovered last-minute-bugs, but often some very wellknown issues that are around for years now and that are coming from not spending enough time with the polishing, or even might be structural issues. I have so far only played with the subs, the air and surface units do not catch my interest so much, I will concentrate on them in the coming time now. So for sub drivers only not much seem to have changed since SC. Station graphics are a bit more polished, environmental graphics even a bit more so. Handling much the same. Sounds the same. So despite the examplary well-done manual that truly deserves to receive a loud hooray, for exclusive sub-lovers DW has little new things to offer what goes beyond SC, and DW wins new ground exclusively by it's new non-sub-platforms. That there should be a new physics engine is something I am not aware of, I never saw flying subs or torps in SC, and if physics means "sound environment" (that'S my initial thought when someones says physics and subs), then any possible changes have escaped my attention so far, layer effects, sonar range, it feels much the same way. If sound propagation is calculated differently, than I am not good enough a player to perceive it. That there still is no collision detection implemented is something I have no tolerance for, not only is it a flaw that is not fixed although it is well-known for years, it also makes scenarios that should take place in limited water bodies, streets and channels almost impossible, especially if you want to add a little randomization to movement patterns or setup points and want to have some confsued civiians in randomized movement around (I tried one unfinished mission I designed for SC, Gibraltar strait, it didn'T work well back then, and it doesn'T work well here). I saw stranded ships or grounded subs even in campaign mission. I conversed two randomized sub-team-deathmatches that I set up for SC some years ago, and played them in DW repeatedly, they feel very much the same, no real difference. I would like to see CM effectiveness more randomized, (50:50 maybe) and torpedoes not exploding when hitting a cloud of bubbles only, Amizaurs and Luftwolfs mod seem to go for that one, too, but I haven't tried their work so far.
I am very dissapointed by comments of people indicating, that the database probabaly hasn'T seen major overhaul since SC, and that it is still up to the community to add the plenty of detail that database structure in principle allows to be reflected. I do not mean finetuning existing values (these settings could be regarded as someehat questions of taste, to some degree), but not activating the diversity of different systems that is possible. DW, including SC to such a huge ammount, should have taken care that known issues with SC get deleted and that the SC database undergoes a major polishing. I must admit, to this point I think of my DW-installation as something like SC plus air/surface-addon. And somehow that was my initial impression since the first announcement long time back that DW was under developement. Graphically, both sims have more in common than what separates them.
It will take me more time to get into these new aerial and surface platforms, since they are completly new for me, really. So far and after ten days with subs exclusively, and comparing it to SC, my opinion is not overwhelming enthusiastic, but also not bone-crushing: it's not bad, but also no spectacular acchievement over SC. I am not sad or angry that I spend the money, but I wouldn'T have regretted if I would have waited even longer, I bought it from a friends' brother who wanted to get rid of it, that's the reason why I did not wait for the final patch, as I had announced before.
The manual is a very big plus. Nice in size, and even better: competently done in it's structure. The best one I've seen since Falcon.
A word on Sonalysts. That they spend a lot of words in the forums, but still let people wait for 1.02, not too mention a final patch, so that the modders could get started with their final work to fix what SCS has missed, is not really of what customer-orientation and support is about. Caring for one's customers is not talking endlessly about future patches or just beeing around in a forum, BUT DELIVERING DEEDS IN A REASONABLE TIME FREME - this is what counts, not forum presence. Forum presence doesn't buy me a single bit. More than half a year does not qualfiy for that definition of "rfeasonable time frame". Their attitude definetly has lost my sympathy for this principle reason. Others, even smaller ones, often show far better performance in this regard, I'm sorry to say. Other business interests of theirs are no excuse. DW-customers are their business, too, as long as they ask them for their money. If they cannot handle two businesses at the same time, they better should pick timeframes for their plannings that enables them to handle all businesses they have on active status at a given time. Some weeks ago I answered to a thread that was about why sales are lacking behind expectations, I referred to several guys I was advertising DW to, and why they did not show too much interest. Amongst other reasons - patches for past sims were one reasons that had been given, too. People did remember, obviously. Sonalysts current behavior does not help to change that impression for the better.
Newcomers I would advise to pick DW over SC, and if they have a high tolerance for very long waiting times for patches they should buy now, and if that tolerance is low, they better wait with their buying, to send the producer a basic message. People that already own SC I would advise to wait until final patch is there as long as they are not in a desperate need to board a frigate or a helo or Orion right now.
... that AI subs happen to run aground at times if ground is raising gently, and sits still on that position for the remainder of the game? If that sub was holding a vital role in the scenario, the match is blown up by that.
... that ships still happen to run offshore at times?
GRRRR, 1:1 bug copies from SC.
... that AI subs on rare occasions blow themselves up when running into the ground with not slow speeds and that ground is raising steeply, not gently as in the example above?
... that torpedoes (ADCAPS, I did not play with the Akula) occasionally do not stay on depth at which they were fired at, but run to post-enable- depth as if they are active, but they still are miles away from activation point? Or is it some intention that I do not understand? It happens rarely, not regularly, that's what irritates me.
* is torpedoe speed and depth a factor that determines pickup range on sonar? I fired 55kn fish shallow and 35 speed deep, but enemy surface unit started to sprint at approx. 15 klicks in both cases. How to sneak in a slow, deep fish? With a sub as target it is even more impossible, it seems to me. Do I handle it wrong?
* this Kilo bug many had reported, did I get it right now that Kilo seems to be far louder than it actually is, but it's sonar having a longer pickup range than it should have? I'm not sure if I perceived it correctly, but somehow the Kilo definetly feels weired. AI kilos also hang around at snorkel depth a very huge ammount of time, and do it repeatedly in a mission of just a few hours? Intention? Shouldn't my sonar pick up a snorkeling sub more easily?
* movies and novels make a big thing of this for dramaturgical reasons, at least at close ranges it makes sense to me: the flooding, pressure equalizing and opening of muzzle hatches is still not modelled as a noise signal that is picked up on sonar and makes the AI react?
* sound problems: occasionally wavering sound, as if one is continously moving the sonar cursor over an SSN contact, so humming on - off - on - off - on - off in second'S change. It permits any other sounds beeing played for as long as it is there. It ends after one up to several minutes, or never for the remainder of the game. I checked sound card and drivers and such, all lamps are green here (Audigy 2, most recent driver, no problems whatsoever in other sims)
... that braking through the ice is not picked up by enemy sonar, even if unit is close by?
* and what is it that sometimes I can circle an enemy surface or sub unit endlessly in a 688, at very close range without getting picked up and AI never reacting? Did that repeatedly with campaign missions now, especially the second. Have they orders by mission editor to ignore me? Where is the sense in that mission, then?
* Basic sound levels of SSN and SS - I cannot bring it down to one point, but sometimes I scratched my head and asked it be like this? Well, subjective impression only. Sometimes some obervations in that regard simply irritate me.
Just some questions of mine, additionally to those that already have been raised by others in recent weeks and months.
===========================================
My résumé with DW so far: in a summary, the whole package is somewhat "round" and surely nice and complex, but thinking about what I have seen so far, and taking into account what other issues had been reported by others, my impression is that it got released too early and could have needed more caretaking for details that are no undiscovered last-minute-bugs, but often some very wellknown issues that are around for years now and that are coming from not spending enough time with the polishing, or even might be structural issues. I have so far only played with the subs, the air and surface units do not catch my interest so much, I will concentrate on them in the coming time now. So for sub drivers only not much seem to have changed since SC. Station graphics are a bit more polished, environmental graphics even a bit more so. Handling much the same. Sounds the same. So despite the examplary well-done manual that truly deserves to receive a loud hooray, for exclusive sub-lovers DW has little new things to offer what goes beyond SC, and DW wins new ground exclusively by it's new non-sub-platforms. That there should be a new physics engine is something I am not aware of, I never saw flying subs or torps in SC, and if physics means "sound environment" (that'S my initial thought when someones says physics and subs), then any possible changes have escaped my attention so far, layer effects, sonar range, it feels much the same way. If sound propagation is calculated differently, than I am not good enough a player to perceive it. That there still is no collision detection implemented is something I have no tolerance for, not only is it a flaw that is not fixed although it is well-known for years, it also makes scenarios that should take place in limited water bodies, streets and channels almost impossible, especially if you want to add a little randomization to movement patterns or setup points and want to have some confsued civiians in randomized movement around (I tried one unfinished mission I designed for SC, Gibraltar strait, it didn'T work well back then, and it doesn'T work well here). I saw stranded ships or grounded subs even in campaign mission. I conversed two randomized sub-team-deathmatches that I set up for SC some years ago, and played them in DW repeatedly, they feel very much the same, no real difference. I would like to see CM effectiveness more randomized, (50:50 maybe) and torpedoes not exploding when hitting a cloud of bubbles only, Amizaurs and Luftwolfs mod seem to go for that one, too, but I haven't tried their work so far.
I am very dissapointed by comments of people indicating, that the database probabaly hasn'T seen major overhaul since SC, and that it is still up to the community to add the plenty of detail that database structure in principle allows to be reflected. I do not mean finetuning existing values (these settings could be regarded as someehat questions of taste, to some degree), but not activating the diversity of different systems that is possible. DW, including SC to such a huge ammount, should have taken care that known issues with SC get deleted and that the SC database undergoes a major polishing. I must admit, to this point I think of my DW-installation as something like SC plus air/surface-addon. And somehow that was my initial impression since the first announcement long time back that DW was under developement. Graphically, both sims have more in common than what separates them.
It will take me more time to get into these new aerial and surface platforms, since they are completly new for me, really. So far and after ten days with subs exclusively, and comparing it to SC, my opinion is not overwhelming enthusiastic, but also not bone-crushing: it's not bad, but also no spectacular acchievement over SC. I am not sad or angry that I spend the money, but I wouldn'T have regretted if I would have waited even longer, I bought it from a friends' brother who wanted to get rid of it, that's the reason why I did not wait for the final patch, as I had announced before.
The manual is a very big plus. Nice in size, and even better: competently done in it's structure. The best one I've seen since Falcon.
A word on Sonalysts. That they spend a lot of words in the forums, but still let people wait for 1.02, not too mention a final patch, so that the modders could get started with their final work to fix what SCS has missed, is not really of what customer-orientation and support is about. Caring for one's customers is not talking endlessly about future patches or just beeing around in a forum, BUT DELIVERING DEEDS IN A REASONABLE TIME FREME - this is what counts, not forum presence. Forum presence doesn't buy me a single bit. More than half a year does not qualfiy for that definition of "rfeasonable time frame". Their attitude definetly has lost my sympathy for this principle reason. Others, even smaller ones, often show far better performance in this regard, I'm sorry to say. Other business interests of theirs are no excuse. DW-customers are their business, too, as long as they ask them for their money. If they cannot handle two businesses at the same time, they better should pick timeframes for their plannings that enables them to handle all businesses they have on active status at a given time. Some weeks ago I answered to a thread that was about why sales are lacking behind expectations, I referred to several guys I was advertising DW to, and why they did not show too much interest. Amongst other reasons - patches for past sims were one reasons that had been given, too. People did remember, obviously. Sonalysts current behavior does not help to change that impression for the better.
Newcomers I would advise to pick DW over SC, and if they have a high tolerance for very long waiting times for patches they should buy now, and if that tolerance is low, they better wait with their buying, to send the producer a basic message. People that already own SC I would advise to wait until final patch is there as long as they are not in a desperate need to board a frigate or a helo or Orion right now.