Cloning Objects in "Plainer English" by stljeffbb1 [Archive]

stljeffbb1

09-11-05, 06:25 PM

Hello everyone!

I first start out by thanking THE_ORZEL, lurbz, Sansal, Commander1980, Shadow9216, iambecomelife, Canaris, and everyone else who has contributed to the original cloning thread....armed with this info, I was able to figure out how to clone objects! It was a somewhat difficult process, and it has taken me the better part of three weekends to finally get a handle on the whole thing....I'm still a beginner at all of this, but I am happy that I was able to clone a ship (Fishing Boat), and I presume that the other files are similarly constructed, but I'm getting ahead of myself! Lets start out from the very beginning...

:damn:

Yes, this is what I felt like when I first started....all of these new things to learn about....hex strings, hexadecimal numbers, 3D rendering programs, Alpha Channels, etc. etc. etc.....however, I can attest that this stuff is not that difficult to learn, and I will now help to show you with a step by step process on what you need......

First, you will need to get some programs, many of which are free!

For the nitty gritty hex editing, go to www.download.com and type in Hex Workshop in the search area (and also keep "software" as the default choice for which type of programs you want to look for). Download Hex Workshop 4.23.....

Next, for the 3D rendering part of things (because you may want to see you models before you try them in the game), follow this link: http://www.blender.org/cms/Download.13.0.html and get Blender 2.37, which is a completely free rendering program!

Finally, if you want to make texture edits, try either Saint Paint Studio at www.saintpaint.com and/or JASC Corel Paint Shop Pro 9 once again at www.download.com and then typing "Paint Shop Pro" in the search area. These are only trial versions, and you will have to buy them to continue to use them after their trial periods are up....

There is one more tool you will need, and that is the Lurbz DATNavigator tool that was made by Lurbz himself and will give you much of the information you will need when cloning....get this at http://cursos.usal.es/~felipe/dc/datconvert.zip

In addition to the above programs, you will also want a text based editor like Notepad or Microsoft Word.

OK, assuming you have downloaded all of these programs, and can at least open them, lets begin with some basics about hex string ID's, the essential material that will be manipulated in cloning objects....

:|\

It is not too important that we know exactly how these things work, as most of us are hacks (said in the most endearing terms)anyway, we just want the end product to be good, and we figure this stuff out by trial and error....however, for the uninitiated, the hexadecimal number sequence goes like this:

0=0
1=1
2=2
3=3
4=4
5=5
6=6
7=7
8=8
9=9
A=10
B=11
C=12
D=13
E=14
F=15

(for more about hexadecimal stuff, visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexadecimal)

Hexadecimal is used because it is easier for the computer to understand, and I'll just leave it at that :know:

In SH3, hex string IDs are used to help map out where the program will get its info.....items in SH3 are cloned by slightly manipulating these hex string IDs to make different pathways for the game to follow when retrieving information. For example, those turrets on the KGV don't just appear out of nowhere! the game has to know where to fetch them from so they can be rendered in the game....

The hex string ID in SH3 will almost invariably contain 16 digits made up of eight groups of two like this:

6A 34 02 D2 E3 11 79 CC

The beauty of the editing we will do is that:

1) We only change the first two and last two digits
2) It does not matter what we change them to! Although there are some things I avoid and I will describe why later
3) I don't know exactly how this works, but it works! :D

....OK, lets start figuring out how all of this works! :up:

(continued…)

stljeffbb1

09-11-05, 06:27 PM

First, lets poke around in some of the SH3 files to see what things look like.....lets start with the same Stuka files that THE_ORZEL mentions in his workshop.....

**NOTE** One should REALLY consider making a couple of copies of the original SH3 Folder....I ASSUME NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOU MESSING UP YOUR ORIGINAL COPY OF SH3!!!! Work on the copied versions instead....you can run the copy of that game by clicking on the application icon in your main directory for that folder that looks like:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/stljeffbb/SH3LaunchIcon.jpg

OK, go to this folder:

C:\Program_Files\Ubisoft\SilentHunterIII\data\Air

In this folder, you will see a bunch of different planes....click on folder "ADB_JU87Stuka" and it will look something like this:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/stljeffbb/StukaFolder2.jpg

Notice the different types of files like "DAT file," "SIM file," "CFG file," etc......

TO CLONE AN AIRPLANE, YOU WILL NEED TO USE THE FOLLOWING FILE EXTENSIONS:

DAT
ZON
SIM
DSD

IF YOU WERE EDITING A SHIP, YOU WOULD ALSO INCLUDE:

VAL

This is all you basically need to know concerning which files you need when cloning....you will also need to edit the CFG file, and you may wish to edit the EQP file...we will get into this later.....

Now that you know which files you will need to edit, lets start the process.....

First, copy the ENTIRE ADB_JU87Stuka folder and rename it ADB_ClonedJU87Stuka, and rename ALL of the files in the folder ADB_ClonedJU87Stuka.XXX (EDIT: where XXX equals the different file extensions like CFG, DAT, etc....do this for all of them, including the .tga images and the text files).

Then, open up the Lurbz DATNavigator (also known as datconvert).....in the upper right of the window, select "Pick File" and open only the C:\Program_Files\Ubisoft\SilentHunterIII\data\Air\ ADB_ClonedJU87Stuka\ADB_ClonedJU87Stuka.DAT file.....

Now, a note on loading times.....I have seen this program take up to 40 minutes to open the BB Revenge.DAT file....you will need to give this program some patience! Also, I run on a Pentium 4 2.6 Ghz with 1 Gb RAM....if your computer is slower, yours will probably take longer! GIVE IT TIME!!!!! :doh:

Once the data has been "navigated," it should look like this:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/stljeffbb/DATNopening.jpg

On the "Hierarchy" portion in the upper left of the window, you will notice a little "+" with 5.-JU-87Stuka_fuselage...go ahead and uncollapse ALL of the branches so it looks like:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/stljeffbb/DATNuncollapsed.jpg

OK, after this is done, notice the right hand portion of the window....you will see four slim rectangular boxes that have the following labels:

id
parent
txtrref
3D

At this time, I suggest you open your text editing program (Microsoft Word) and set it up like this:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/stljeffbb/DATNwithWord.jpg

Each of the slim rectangular bozes contain the ID strings that I was talking about earlier....all you will be doing is using your mouse to select the strings, right click copy, and then paste it on to your text program and start to establish a list like you see I've done...

Now, DO NOT WORRY about the "parent" box on the right hand side of the DATNav window....also, the string under the "txtrref" box will often be the same, so the strings you will ALWAYS copy are the "id" and "3D" strings....to summarize:

id = ALWAYS COPY
parent = NEVER COPY
txtrref = OCCASIONALLY COPY (I will explain)
3D = ALWAYS COPY EDIT 24 Sept 05: Snipped an extra "[/b]" :)

Concerning the "txtrref" box, it seems that this changes based what version of the object is in effect....this is why there are never more than seven or so different strings for ALL of the different chunks (because in the game, there are the 1939, 1940, through 1945 versions of ships, planes, etc.).....if you want, you can copy every one onto Word, and you can just search and remove the duplicates later. Once all of the strings are copied, you will have to delete ALL of the dashes out of the strings so you can copy them directly onto the Hex Workshop program:

Before:12-34-56-78-90-AB-CD-EF
After: 1234567890ABCDEF

(continued….)

stljeffbb1

09-11-05, 06:28 PM

OK, now, hopefully you have been able to extract all of the IDs that the DATNav tool has provided, however, DATNav is a "messy, dirty" tool as I think he described it....it is great, but it does not always provide all of the string ID's we need.....so now, its time to open up Hex Workshop:

Upon opening this program, open up the following files IN THIS ORDER:

ADB_ClonedJU87Stuka.DAT
ADB_ClonedJU87Stuka.ZON
ADB_ClonedJU87Stuka.SIM
ADB_ClonedJU87Stuka.DSD

(if there were one as there are for ships, you would next open ADB_ClonedJU87Stuka.VAL, but there is not one)

Hex Workshop should look like this:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/stljeffbb/HexWorkshopopen.jpg

On the far left of the middle window, you see listings by decimal numbers, but I think this is changeable within the program. The middle portion of the middle window has all of the different hexadecimal strings, and then the right portion of the middle window has the translation into text (which is why when you open up a .dat file with a text reader it looks like gibberish)....

Now for a word on hex string data.....when the programmers made this program, they developed what is called a Software Development Kit which helps them to make the program....however, especially with games that are still viable, computer game companies generally DO NOT like releasing their SDK, however, we can at least see the data arranged in hexadecimal format, because all computer programs use the basic premise of 0=off and 1=on....basically, anything that a computer does is made up of trillions, quadrillions, and even quintillions of on and off switches (if not more!)....because of this, we can translate any program into hexidecimal, but we cannot necessarily make heads or tails of it.....sometimes, programmers throw us a bone by including some text information (seen in the right hand side of the middle window), however, often "hackers" must figure things out by trial and error.....

Back to the Hex Workshop....I suggest you arrange your text file with the copied strings below your Hex Workshop window like this:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/stljeffbb/HewWorkshopwithWord.jpg

OK, now go to the Edit menu on the top toolbar and find the replace command, which can also be obtained by hitting Ctrl-H.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/stljeffbb/HexWorkReplacewindow.jpg

Now, we will begin the cloning process! Start with the first string, right-click copy right into the "Find" line AND the "Replace" line of the Replace window. Now you get to be creative!

To change the string and effect a clone, change the first two and last two digits to anything you desire (within the hexadecimal system)

Example:

First string (from ID 5.-JU-87Stuka_fuselage)

F836293DBF589F8A

can become:

E736293DBF589F22

Notice that the inner digits remain the same...it does not matter what you change the outer 4 digits too! However, I strongly suggest that you avoid using "00" at either the beginning or end of the string, and avoid using a "0" to start or end a string....I will explain why soon....

Now, this is important! When you start with the very first string, start with the DAT tool and replace the first string with your string….after this, select the second tab below the middle window….you won’t able to read it, but if you opened the files as described above, this tab will be the .ZON file…..now, use Ctrl-H (quicker) or go to the Edit menu and select “Replace”….the program is nice and keeps the same thread you just replaced! After getting done, click on the third tab (.SIM) and repeat the Replace procedure, then finally click on the fourth tab (.DSD) and do the same….you will not always have all of the IDs in all of the different (ZON, SIM, DSD) files, so don’t worry if you get the “no string” message.

(continued....)

stljeffbb1

09-11-05, 06:28 PM

OK, so you've now copied all of you strings that DATNav provided into Hex Workshop....don't do ANYTHING quite yet.....here is what it should look similar to:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/stljeffbb/LibHexusingDATNmissingIDs.jpg

This was taken from the Liberator.DAT file, and even though THE_ORZEL had provided all of the string IDs, I wanted to see if the DATNav tool would catch them all, and it didn't... :(

However, if you closely look at the screen, you will see a pattern of red bands (which represents changed data) that is nice and symmetrical, and also some gaps.....

In an earlier thread on THE_ORZEL's thread, I posted that I found out that ALL of the necessary ID strings are located at the bottom of the data on the .DAT file represented in Hex Workshop....this was proven true because I was able to clone the Fishing Boat without having any strings provided on the message boards and having to fill in the missing strings that the DATNav tool does not provide....

"The Art of Finding Strings"

OK, lets take a close look at the Liberator file:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/stljeffbb/CloseupofLiberatorData.jpg

Find the spot where, in the right hand column, the text Liberator_Mrk03 appears....this seems to be a marker. Then, locate the data: "!?J.PH.=.*.?...@.59..." This also appears to be a marker...

Now, remember when I said "don't use '00' to start a thread?" This is because the game typically uses "00" to set apart one string from another. As it turns out, the dark highlighted section in the upper left of the window is the first string in THE_ORZEL's Liberator ID message....I had guessed that if I filled in the ID's that the DaTNav tool had missed by using them provided by THE_ORZEL, the Hex Workshop red bands would look nice and neat....and they do!

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/stljeffbb/LibHex.jpg

BEAUTIFUL! :sunny:

So, what you have to do is look for similar instances of data....first find the last thing you can read in English in the right hand column....then, look for that little chunk of data not long after this, then, look for data in strings that have "00" right before it and/or look for the pattern that is established by your already entered ID strings from the DATNav tool....not all files have the same kind of markers...the Liberator had either "0C 00" or "0D 00" while the Fishing Boat only had "00" ......

You might wonder....OK, I've added in the strings (from the DATNav), but there are extra data that hangs over the edited parts (not in red)...well, remember I'm new at all of this too, and I don't know about that data, but I guess just don't worry about it?!? I have had good luck so far with planes and a ship....we will see when I attempt to clone a Battleship, however, I'll bet that the same ideas here apply to all ships!

Now that you have found the missing strings and you have them all on your text document (I recommend you type in a line that separates the DATNav strings from the ones you find), save that document (don’t lose it!) and then use the Replace feature in Hex Workshop and do like you did earlier with all of the other files (ZON, SIM, and DSD) to get ALL of the IDs changed that are necessary.

Just for fun, I’ll show you the Stuka.DAT file and where the first ID (I think!) starts:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/stljeffbb/Stukastart.jpg

(continued....)

stljeffbb1

09-11-05, 06:29 PM

Now, you should have all of the ID strings that you need to be replaced in the Hex Workshop on the DAT, ZON, SIM, and DSD files....you are almost done!

In the text Cloned Stuka CFG file, open it up and change the "class" from "DBJU87Stuka" to "DBClonedJU87Stuka"

Now is where things can get interesting....open up the Cloned Stuka EQP file, and you can add different load outs! This is one of the main reasons for cloning objects in SH3....you can keep the integrity of the original plane and add new planes that can be modified to your liking, or even changed to a completely different plane (as sergbuto does!) ...unfortunately, SH3 does not seem to have the airplanes able to fire machine guns from the front of the plane, only the rear turrets will fire :nope:

Still, these modifications are for another thread!

Now, go up one level to the Air folder and find the "EnglishNames" and / or "GermanNames" CFG files.....add the line DBClonedJU87Stuka=JU 87 Clone, or whatever you want to call your clone!

After this, go to the Roster folder (on the same level) and you can add this plane to any country you choose, and it is a different Stuka from the stock version!.....simply make a CFG file similar to the others with the proper names....

One last thing, go back to the ADB_ClonedJU87Stuka file and change the "ADB_ClonedJU87Stuka_en" and / or the "ADB_ClonedJU87Stuka_ge" text files to properly represent the plane in the Museum (especially if you have changed the loadouts)

For fun, add the Cloned Stuka to the American Air roster.....

FINALLY.....you should be ready! Fire up the game (using the proper application file based on the files you altered) and go to the museum.....with anticipation, click on the American air roster and see your cloned plane! It should look like:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/stljeffbb/FreedomFighterJU87.jpg

The game automatically adds the roundels based on the country it fights for!

WOOHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, if the game CTD, this generally means that you have not properly copied all of the IDs....back to the drawing board :(

WHEW, now I'm tired! Lots of typing.....I hope this helps lead people in the right direction concerning cloning....as of yet, I have not learned how to actually edit objects after they are cloned, and I know there is a way to add separate textures for each clone...probably have to use the .tga extractor (Chessmaster program is very good....can be found somewhere around here) and find out where it is in the .DAT file then rename it....

I will do my best to answer questions as they come....I will gladly defer to those who know more than I do about all of this...

The main goals of cloning are to:

1) Help fix the holes that SH3 left in missing planes, ships, etc.
2) Help people develop their own objects
3) Help people learn more about how games work

Good Luck!

-Jeff

sergbuto

09-12-05, 02:39 AM

Unfortunately, using such a total cloning method will put higher demands on computer resources and may eventually oveload some systems.

The SH3 engines smartly allows for multiple use of 3D meshes. It is only the object "representation/description" needs to have an unique ID, not the 3D mesh itself. That allows for lower memory consumption without loading multiple copies of identical 3D meshes. Therefore, it is enough to change only IDs given by DAT navigator plus TGA IDs to get a fully functional clone-model in the game. The 3D mesh needs to have the unique ID only when it is to be edited/modified.

stljeffbb1

09-12-05, 08:03 AM

Hi sergbuto.....thanks for the tip! :D

So, what probably should be done is:

1) make clones that are designed to be used as pure copies of a given unit, meaning that less ID's need to be changed.....

2) then, make other clones with the "full method" that are designed to be edited / modified.....

Also, in discussions with Rubini concerning the B24 Liberator clone, we have determined that my clone comes from a later version of SH3 (with RUb 1.42 and a modified airpower mod), and I will need to clone from "plain" versions of SH3 1.4b to ensure a "pure" clone.

I still need to learn how to find .tga files embedded in the DAT files..... :oops:

-Jeff

Commander1980

09-12-05, 12:41 PM

Thank you very much jeff! This is great! When i find more time, i will try some cloning ;)

The dat navigator needs much time, indeed. I have a 2800+ with 1024 MB, and i waited 40 minutes for the C-Class Dat-file...

iambecomelife

09-13-05, 06:18 PM

Hey stljeffbb1 - I noticed you said it took you about 40 minutes to open a file (Revenge). I'm not sure if this is your bottleneck, but try opening them when you don't have any browser windows open. Offline I've opened battleship dat's in about 4-5 minutes even though my specs are similar to yours. If that doesn't work, try closing as many programs as you can.

stljeffbb1

09-14-05, 12:32 AM

Hi iambecomelife....thanks for the tip! I'll try this next time I use DATNav.....

-Jeff

Shadow9216

09-14-05, 07:41 AM

For the cloned liberator, what is the easiest way to change the name as it displays in the museum? I'd like to represent the Navy version of the plane, which became the privateer....which I think we could make if we could add the tail unit from the Sunderland and the waist blisters from the Catalina.

stljeffbb1

09-14-05, 07:58 AM

Hello Shadow.....You may change it in the the folder:

SilentHunterIII\data\Air\EnglishNames.CFG or GermanNames.CFG

There, you will see the class name on the left with the display name on the right.

:up:

-Jeff

iambecomelife

09-15-05, 05:08 PM

Speaking of battleships I'm about halfway done with my HMS Renown/Repulse mod. The actual cloning is done, and now I'm doing the skin and armament. With any luck it will be done by this weekend.

Sansal

09-16-05, 02:00 PM

Hi boys:

As a continuation of awesome work of Lurbz ( http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=40399&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=50#top ), i'm making a new utility for extract and modify the 3D objects. It isn't finished but one of her functions is clone any unit in the game:

http://rapidshare.de/files/5416649/pack3d_220105.zip.html

It need the JRE of Java http://java.com/

Options:

O: Output all 3D parts and TGA in a subdirecctory named 3D
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/sansal/70d08d25.jpg

I: Reinsert a TGA in the dat without the actual restriction of size. Now i'm working in a problem with reinyection of .obj It's important that the three or two prefix name tga was in the format 3_new_name.tga and this number are equal as original tga.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/sansal/45ba4334.jpg

L: List, in few seconds, all chunks in the .dat, .sim, .zon, .val with details of name, size and position in the file.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/sansal/1fa6c684.jpg

T: List only id of chunks

C: Clone object. The number can be any long
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/sansal/e76f7ab1.jpg

It no have a GUI (windows interface) but i will make it when all functions are finished. For this reason only work in the Console (MS-DOS) of Windows, and the best form to work with object is copy the programa and files in the same directory, sorry about this.

Cheers,

Rubini

09-16-05, 02:12 PM

Awesome Sansal! :o

Now we have all the tools!

So, is't ready to use in MS-DOS windows console?

Rubini.

Commander1980

09-16-05, 03:19 PM

Nice work, very interesting!

But i get an error when using it:

"Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: Pack3D"

i installed the latest Java JRE...

What i have done wrong?

Rubini

09-16-05, 03:31 PM

But i get an error when using it:

"Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: Pack3D"

i installed the latest Java JRE...

The same here. :(

Rubini.

Sansal

09-16-05, 03:59 PM

Can you say me if there are a file named in Pac3D.class in the directory? I think that the zip have a classpath and extrat .class files in a subdirectory named bin.

After the extration all files need to be in the same directory of the dat......sorry, sorry, sorry :oops:

There are one solution: Unmark "use folder name" in the extractor

Commander1980

09-16-05, 04:05 PM

Well, it works :up:

But where are the cloned files copied to?

Sansal

09-16-05, 04:20 PM

It don't make new filest (but its a improvement that i can do).

Transform the actual .dat and associates files. You need work with a copy of the object that you need clone. Pack3D don't clone the skin, her id need to be altered by hand with a hexeditor.

Rubini

09-16-05, 05:03 PM

Hey Sansal, it works! :sunny:

I have my first clone in a few seconds!

I just clone a small merchant. Do you think that it will be work on the milk mod for more variation on ships to milk cow purposes?

Great, incredible!

Rubini.

Rubini

09-16-05, 05:06 PM

Sansal:

More questions:

It's possible to clone uboats?
It's possible to clone airplanes?
It's possible to "see" or list the objects/properties on sim, zon and val files?

Rubini.

Sansal

09-16-05, 05:44 PM

It's possible to "see" or list the objects/properties on sim, zon and val files?
.
Now you can see objects, but not the properties.
I'm working on it, there are many subtypes of type 100. In this type there are the properties of the units, ia, flotability, velocity, resistance.......... :ping:
In the final tool you can change this properties in decimal valours.

The list in .dat files is a little big. Make this:

pack3d l file.dat >list.txt

This command make a ASCII file with name list.txt in the same directory.

It's possible to clone airplanes?

All :sunny: (I think)

It's possible to clone uboats?

Yes, and the interiors :) In fact this tool is a creator of .dats. If i can to finish it all this comunity will have a SDK to make anything; playable ptboat, ¿dd?, minisubs, humans..... animals. But I need that Sergbuto, and others, make news ways of development. This tool mechanizes his discoverys.

Cheers

Jace11

09-16-05, 06:06 PM

oh I think it works too..

The number you input to clone.? is that a random number that is added to all ID tags?

Serg says it isn;t necessary to clone all ID's just main ones.

ANyway this issue has been sonfising me for a LONG TIME but it is far simpler now...

Cheers sensal..

Rubini

09-16-05, 06:14 PM

Sansal,

I don't know if you need, but I will make a ship, a airplane and a uboat clone, test and post my feedbacks to you soon.

Rubini.

Sansal

09-16-05, 06:27 PM

oh I think it works too..

The number you input to clone.? is that a random number that is added to all ID tags?

Serg says it isn;t necessary to clone all ID's just main ones.

Yes, a random number more large than 10.000.000 for ensure that your clone not is equal with the work of other modder (that nobody put 1 ¡¡¡¡PLEASE!!!!!).

This change all ids....it's the same work :D and ensure not colision with properties of the objects in a future.

I don't know if you need, but I will make a ship, a airplane and a uboat clone, test and post my feedbacks to you soon.

Thanks Rubini, i need any bug or improvement. For the uboat remember clone the interior too.

Salutes,

Sansal

09-16-05, 06:28 PM

:sunny:

AG124

09-16-05, 06:30 PM

I can't get the program to work - normally I can install programs without any problems, but this time I'm making some stupid mistake or another.

I've extracted the file using IZArc, but I didn't see any option to "use a folder name" that I could uncheck. I also have the latest JRE. The problem is that the program runs only for fraction of a second and shuts down - there's an error message but I can't tell what it is. If anyone knows what I've done wrong, please help me out here.

Sansal

09-16-05, 06:36 PM

Rubini

09-16-05, 06:43 PM

Sansal

Any tip about the names?
To clone a B24 for example. The original name: ALB_B24Liberator, any new name is OK? Any problem with the tga names in the unit folder (ALB_B24Liberator_shp.tga for example)? And the name of the log files (ALB_B24Liberator_en.log for example)?

Rubini

AG124

09-16-05, 06:46 PM

Jace11

09-16-05, 06:54 PM

Jace11

09-16-05, 06:56 PM

Two questions:

1. How do I start the program from the Command Prompt (Windows has erased whatever little knowledge I used to have of DOS commands).

2. I too am interested in Rubini's question - Is it OK to give the new files a new name?

If I, and others, can't figure out DOS, will there be a version with Windows interface soon?

Thanks for your partience.

Rename all the files in a similar manner.. That is essential. NDE_Evarts.eqp - NDE_Captain.eqp

You also need to look inside the cfg file and rename it inside too...

Sansal

09-16-05, 07:00 PM

The first steep for clone a unit is rename all names of the files with the same name of the folder. And change the classname in .cfg for other.

The names of the objets in the dat don't need to be change. It's a reference at object but it not have influence in the object. Except names like cfg#a01_name_ship .... cfg#a01_ have references with the equipment.

Sorry AG124 i can't do a tutorial of DOS for you now.

This tool not is finished, it's only the firts steeps. The windowed version when i will solved problems with other functions like import a obj.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/sansal/7829d06d.jpg

P.D. This seem a on-line tutorial :lol:

Rubini

09-16-05, 07:25 PM

PicaSansal!

What a crazy mind can do....

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Rubini.

iambecomelife

09-16-05, 08:11 PM

Yup cloned me a destroyer.

Thanks for tool.

What about Text names inside the dat file, do they matter? Say I wanted to use a new texture.. Would I have to rename it inside the dat. There are many instances of NDE_Evarts inside the dat I am looking at, renaming these to NDE_Captain causes a crash. Probably don't fit correct. Need to look closely at insert/override.

Try running a search in the file for plain-text mentions of "tga". This should be easy using hexworkshop's search function. These will most likely be the tga's for the deck and hull of the 3d model. Make sure that the renamed tga for your new texture is the exact same length as the replaced one. For the NDE_Evarts.tga, you'd need a word that was exactly 10 letters/spaces long. I used this method to create some new textures for the "Renown" class battlecruiser I'm making. They work fine without interfering with the default King George skin or crashing the game.

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/9941/renowncam3qb.jpg

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/889/renownuncam8zh.jpg

Jace11

09-16-05, 08:32 PM

iambecomelife

09-16-05, 08:44 PM

Ok will look into it. Using the old name with a new skin, the new skin is ignored and the other Evarts skin appears to be used which is why I asked. Can the files not be renamed, I am sure I looked at one of serg's mod and he had renamed EVERYTHING which is why I thought it essential (though clearly it is not as it works without)...

I guess that he had all those renamed portions because he made some changes to the 3d model. To change textures you just need to find all plaintext mentions of tga's in the dat file, rename it, and follow the length rule above. Another thing - the new skin will not appear if you put it in textures\tlowres\tex. It must go in textures\tnormal.tex. BTW, I still don't know how to make a cloned unit multiple-skin, so you may have to ask sergbuto or orzel if you want more than one texture.

stljeffbb1

09-16-05, 09:24 PM

Excellent! Anything to make this stuff go as smoothly and quickly as possible!

:up:

-Jeff

iambecomelife

09-16-05, 09:27 PM

Not working for me when I try to clone (c). I made sure to extract without folders and I have the latest Java update. I'm running in the command prompt window and the files are in the same directory as the dat (nksq_.dat) that I'm trying to clone. I'm getting that "out of bounds" error. Do you have to execute one of the other commands first to make it run?

iambecomelife

09-16-05, 09:36 PM

Here's the full error:

Exception in thread "main" java.lang ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: 2 at pack3d.main <pack3d.java:60>

Any idea what's wrong?

iambecomelife

09-16-05, 10:16 PM

Never mind, I solved my problem. I'm too ashamed to admit what it was, but you're welcome to guess :oops: . Now to find some photos of German flak ships - lol.

Rubini

09-16-05, 10:24 PM

Hi guys,
Hi Sansal,

iambecomelife just read this:

Reports after first 3! clones in a test mission:

I cloned a Small Merchant, B24 Liberator and a type IXB. I made a test mission with anchored and moving units (waypoints). Put in the same area a original of each unit. All goes fine, no missing objects, no missing textures.

Issues:
1. the uboat clone don't follow the waypoints, just start with move but their engines are off. This is related to the sim file. It's not a bug with the clone process.
2. to clone the uboat is necessary to clone the watch tower too, and they don't have a dsd file. I just rename the cam file to a dsd file and after the clone process I just delete it.

So, it's awesome, in a hour I clone 3 units (1 uboat). Until today at morning I will need a week or two to do this...if I could achieve it...

After this my mind see a infinite possibilities for the modders.

Many thanks Sansal. I new era comes for this sim. You rocks! :rock:

Rubini.

stljeffbb1

09-16-05, 11:09 PM

Cool....I just used this fab tool! Cuts the time from hours to minutes! Now we can focus on making different units instead of spending the time cloning! :up: :up: :up:

Many thanks Sansal!

-Jeff

Rubini

09-17-05, 03:01 AM

eh eh,

My cloned Type IX now move and follow waypoints... ;)

Rubini.

sergbuto

09-17-05, 03:53 AM

Thanks, Sansal. It is a very useful tool indeed. Now, with such a simplified cloning process, I can easilty complete my AI-boats and Wolfpack packs. :up:

sergbuto

09-17-05, 04:05 AM

Can the files not be renamed, I am sure I looked at one of serg's mod and he had renamed EVERYTHING which is why I thought it essential (though clearly it is not as it works without)...

I renamed everything only for my own convenience. Since the cloning process would take time and the work would be spread over a few days, every time when some object ID was changed I renamed the object so that when the file was loaded next time I knew what IDs were processed and which were not.

Also, there were sometimes some object which I was not sure about whether keeping the same name would not create any interferance with other models using them.

Sansal

09-17-05, 08:47 AM

Never mind, I solved my problem. I'm too ashamed to admit what it was, but you're welcome to guess :oops: . Now to find some photos of German flak ships - lol.

You forget the number :D

stljeffbb1

09-17-05, 11:05 AM

Quick question for Sansal.......sergbuto mentioned that it was not necessary to use "full" cloning method when just wanting a replica of any unit, however, for actually changing units (like moving items like tripod masts, etc.) a "full" clone was necessary.....

Looking at your wonderful tool and the results it brings, it looks like it just gets the necessary IDs and the .tga files ONLY...does this mean that I should use the "full" cloning method so I can make the Brasilian BB Sao Paulo, because I need to change some items like the tripod masts, or do you think that the ID's your tool gets are enough?

Thanks,

-Jeff

Commander1980

09-17-05, 11:08 AM

When using the clone options, there are still some entries with the original name in the cloned dat file.
How can i change the "link" for the tga-file? When i clone the Dido, it will still be named NCL_Dido.tga and when i got a texture in the textures folder, will the cloned ship use that tga-file or that included in the dat file?

sergbuto

09-17-05, 11:21 AM

Quick question for Sansal.......sergbuto mentioned that it was not necessary to use "full" cloning method when just wanting a replica of any unit, however, for actually changing units (like moving items like tripod masts, etc.) a "full" clone was necessary.....

To just move the object like mast, etc., you do not need to change its 3D mesh ID. It is only necessary when you actually want to modify points of the 3D mesh, i.e. change the actual shape/size of the object. And even then it is enough to do it only for the specific 3D mesh you want to modify out of the whole file.

stljeffbb1

09-17-05, 11:32 AM

stljeffbb1

09-17-05, 12:59 PM

OK.....a couple of observations using BB Revenge files for quick comparison of Lurbz tool and Sansal tool:

1) Except for the very first ID (NBB_Revenge.obj)....the Lurbz IDs are +1 to the Sansal IDs (ex. NBB_Revenge_tir03.obj is listed as #50 in Lurbz and #49 in Sansal)...for whatever reason, the Sansal tool lists NBB_Revenge.obj as #1 while Lurbz tool lists it as #14. Based on the results for BB Revenge.dat, it seems that the .obj parts that are shown are exactly the same between the two programs.

2) It was somewhat mentioned earlier, but is it possible to import the .obj files back into the .dat files, or are only .tga files possible for now? If we cannot import .obj files, does this mean that we will still have to use hex editing and trial and error to modify parts on ships (ex. make them look different)

3) For some reason, the program I use for rendering (Blender) still will not open the .obj files that the Sansal tool extracts.....what if I extract them using the Lurbz tool and then import them using the Sansal tool.....will the parts be the same?

Meanwhile, I'll keep on digging through this stuff and figure out how to make it work!

Thanks,

-Jeff

Commander1980

09-17-05, 01:02 PM

Well nice, it works - One clone per minute ;)

1. But my cloned ships do not show damage-textures, when hit :-? Anyone with the same problem?

and

2. When using the clone options, there are still some entries with the original name in the cloned dat file.
How can i change the "link" for the tga-file? When i clone the Dido, it will still be named NCL_Dido.tga and when i got a texture in the textures folder, will the cloned ship use that tga-file or that included in the dat file?

stljeffbb1

09-17-05, 01:52 PM

Hi Commander1980........

I did a test run of my BB Sao Paulo and also included the BB Bismarck in the Naval Academy to see some fireworks!

The Bismarck sunk the Sao Paulo quite quickly! I was pleasntly surprised to see damage on the Sao Paulo.....I used a blank alpha channel, so I expected not to see damage, but I guess the alpha channel has nothing to do with it...so in answer to your quesiton, my answer is no, but I haven't tested any other ships.

I don't know if it was a bug or simply hard programmed, but the Bismarck fired at me as well!

:o

-Jeff

P.S. I also tested the BB Revenge with the BB Sao Paulo to make sure they wuold work together after using the Sansal tool....they worked fine, however, the Sao Paulo assumed the Revenge.tga when both showed up....I think I understand this problem, and I think it will be fixed by changing the .tga name in the .dat and/or any other applicable files to "SaoPaulo."

iambecomelife

09-17-05, 02:44 PM

Thanks sergbuto! :D

Yes, I will want to actually modify the objects, not just move them.....for example, I've got to fix the superstructure (that the Revenge BB currently has) to better accomodate the large side turrets for the BB Sao Paulo....I will have to modify, so I think this will be a big job, but now that I don't have to worry about cloning so much, I think I can get it....

Another little thing...I use Blender for 3D rendering, but for some reason it won't open the .obj files that Pack3D extracts.....it does open the .obj files that the Lurbz tool extracts...any ideas?

Thanks again for great stuff!

-Jeff

I second that thank you :up:

I'm going to need to move several objects on the T-3 tanker's deck to create one of my merchant units and add another funnel to it; plus, I'd like to try and move one funnel on the KGV model I recently cloned. Where in the dat/sim/zon files is the data for 3d object locations and ID's, and how do you change their position on the hull? I have a bad feeling that this is not going to be very obvious... :damn:

EDIT: In the dat extractor I have found some data referring to coordinate points x y and z in one of the righthand boxes; however, there seems to be no way to modify this data. Has anyone successfully discovered how to use this data to move fixtures?

stljeffbb1

09-17-05, 03:47 PM

Hi iambecomelife....I think we are in the same lifeboat together out in the middle of a large ocean in regards to your last post on this thread :rotfl: :D

I have tried "packing data" using Blender (3D rendering program) with no luck, and I've also tried repacking data with the Sansal tool...I don't think the tool is ready yet for repacking .obj files, but I think Sansal wants to make this happen (check out an earlier post on THE_ORZEL thread mentioning how he needed a "reconverter")

...So....next is going to the hex data....I'm guessing it has to be somewhere around the related IDs in the .dat file....one interesting thing I've done is to open the .obj files with hexeditor.....it displays coordinates that I think refers to all of the possible viewing angles of the object....certainly when I find out more about this I'll post to this thread! :up:

-Jeff

Sansal

09-17-05, 03:56 PM

Uff...many questions :)

1) Except for the very first ID (NBB_Revenge.obj)....the Lurbz IDs are +1 to the Sansal IDs (ex. NBB_Revenge_tir03.obj is listed as #50 in Lurbz and #49 in Sansal)...for whatever reason, the Sansal tool lists NBB_Revenge.obj as #1 while Lurbz tool lists it as #14. Based on the results for BB Revenge.dat, it seems that the .obj parts that are shown are exactly the same between the two programs.

I will revised this. There are 12 bytes after the NBB_Revenge.obj that i see like a part of obj and it's posible that Lurbz give as a chunk.
Thanks for the test.

It was somewhat mentioned earlier, but is it possible to import the .obj files back into the .dat files, or are only .tga files possible for now? If we cannot import .obj files, does this mean that we will still have to use hex editing and trial and error to modify parts on ships (ex. make them look different)

The tool can import a .obj. You are welcome to make new experiments with this :), with others units for example. Only one condition, for import the new obj the format is number_new_name.obj. The prefix number_ will be the same that the 3d object you want change.

The import of tga no have size limits.

For some reason, the program I use for rendering (Blender) still will not open the .obj files that the Sansal tool extracts.....what if I extract them using the Lurbz tool and then import them using the Sansal tool.....will the parts be the same?

There are many 3d tools to convert formats. The Alias/Maya obj it's the most popular, Are you sure that the Blender no have a plugin for this? The obj is the same that SHIII, only need one conversion with tirangles; take away 1.

I have problems with UV when i make any modification with Maya. Also i'm a newner in Maya :( .... but i think that the tool make right her job.

EDIT: In the dat extractor I have found some data referring to coordinate points x y and z in one of the righthand boxes; however, there seems to be no way to modify this data. Has anyone successfully discovered how to use this data to move fixtures?

You need modify the type 4 node that control the position of this object. With my tool you see it , it's a type 4 with the same label as 3d object (type 1)

Cheers,

stljeffbb1

09-17-05, 04:08 PM

Thanks for the replies Sansal! :yep:

stljeffbb1 wrote:
It was somewhat mentioned earlier, but is it possible to import the .obj files back into the .dat files, or are only .tga files possible for now? If we cannot import .obj files, does this mean that we will still have to use hex editing and trial and error to modify parts on ships (ex. make them look different)

The tool can import a .obj. You are welcome to make new experiments with this , with others units for example. Only one condition, for import the new obj the format is number_new_name.obj. The prefix number_ will be the same that the 3d object you want change.

Yes, I tried importing an object using your tool that I extracted using the lurbz tool. I renamed it to be exactly the same as an object that your tool extracted, but when I tried to import into a .dat file, I got some kind of error message that related to Java stuff (I do have latest version of Java)....

I will keep on trying to work with this today (I'm in US on Chicago time, so I have many hours left, and my wife is at work, so no distractions! ;) )...I will see if Blender has a plug-in to recognize your .obj files (they also have email support and encourage people to email them files), and I will also keep on trying to import .obj into .dat files using your fabulous tool. :up:

-Jeff

Sansal

09-17-05, 04:27 PM

Yes, I tried importing an object using your tool that I extracted using the lurbz tool. I renamed it to be exactly the same as an object that your tool extracted, but when I tried to import into a .dat file, I got some kind of error message that related to Java stuff (I do have latest version of Java)....

Remember the path of the obj file to import

pack3d i ship.dat 3d/1_newship.obj

Salutes,

martes86

09-17-05, 04:36 PM

Nuevo juguetito a la lista, jeje. :P :up:

stljeffbb1

09-17-05, 04:43 PM

OK, here is exactly what it looks like:

C:\Pack3D\bin>Pack3D I NBB_SaoPaulo.dat 3d/NBB_Revenge_crane.obj
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NumberFormatException: For input string: "N
BB"
at java.lang.NumberFormatException.forInputString(Unk nown Source)
at java.lang.Integer.parseInt(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Integer.<init>(Unknown Source)
at Pack3D.toDatFile(Pack3D.java:481)
at Pack3D.main(Pack3D.java:54)

C:\Pack3D\bin>Pack3D I NBB_SaoPaulo.dat 3d/NBB_SaoPaulo_crane.obj
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NumberFormatException: For input string: "N
BB"
at java.lang.NumberFormatException.forInputString(Unk nown Source)
at java.lang.Integer.parseInt(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Integer.<init>(Unknown Source)
at Pack3D.toDatFile(Pack3D.java:481)
at Pack3D.main(Pack3D.java:54)

C:\Pack3D\bin>

I tried at first just importing the file, then I tried changing the name of the file....

Sorry to be such of a noob with this stuff :oops:

I'll keep on working on it!

-Jeff

stljeffbb1

09-17-05, 06:27 PM

OK, now that I read a little more, I understand a little more ;)

EDIT: In the dat extractor I have found some data referring to coordinate points x y and z in one of the righthand boxes; however, there seems to be no way to modify this data. Has anyone successfully discovered how to use this data to move fixtures?

You need modify the type 4 node that control the position of this object. With my tool you see it , it's a type 4 with the same label as 3d object (type 1)

Ah yes......so it looks like this:

==================
Obj:34
Type: 4/100
id: 7CCEC3BC185E2BFD Label: NBB_Revenge_tir01

size: 66 Position:1767690

==================
Obj:35
Type: 8/0
id: 7CCEC3BC185E2BFD Label: NBB_Revenge_tir01

size: 26 Position:1767768

So, type 4 is the position of the object, and type 8 is the 3d portion?

If this is the case, then we need to hex edit the type 4 object?

The position refers to where it is located in the file....this is helpful for easy finding!

....OK, we will figure this out!

-Jeff

P.S. Position numbers changed from hexadecimal to regular (decimal) numbers

P.P.S. Important, so I'll use larger font.....when using DOS prompt and using list feature ("L") for Pack3D, I suggest ending the command with:

| more (| = "pipe" ...on US keyboards, it is often with the forward slash \)

to make it so you can read all of the objects at human speed!

stljeffbb1

09-17-05, 06:40 PM

OK, I think there is improvement...I only get two error messages now!

C:\Pack3D\bin>Pack3d I NBB_SaoPaulo.dat 3d/113_NBB_Revenge_newcrane.obj
Importing objet: NBB_Revenge_crane
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NullPointerException
at Pack3D.toDatFile(Pack3D.java:534)
at Pack3D.main(Pack3D.java:54)

C:\Pack3D\bin>Pack3d I NBB_SaoPaulo.dat 3d/113_new_crane.obj
Importing objet: NBB_Revenge_crane
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NullPointerException
at Pack3D.toDatFile(Pack3D.java:534)
at Pack3D.main(Pack3D.java:54)

I find it interesting that even after I changed the file name, it still recognizes the file as coming from the Revenge.....also, when I open the object in hexeditor, there does not seem to be any trace of the Revenge tag.......

All right.....back to work!

:damn: ;)

-Jeff

Sansal

09-17-05, 06:54 PM

New subversion http://rapidshare.de/files/5416649/pack3d_220105.zip.html

It can clon all files .dat, .dsd, .val, .sim, .zon and .cam
And eliminate a little bug when import .obj (this null pointer exception)

tried at first just importing the file, then I tried changing the name of the file....

Sorry to be such of a noob with this stuff

I'll keep on working on it!

The command no is Pack3D I NBB_SaoPaulo.dat 3d/NBB_SaoPaulo_crane.obj

is pack3d i nbb_saopaulo.dat 3d/1_nbb_saopaulo_crane.obj

you forgot the list number. Ever number_ The program control the object to remake by the prefix of the name file. The same with tga.

The fault is my. We need a windows interface and good error messages.

Don't use |more if you call the command: pack3d l ship.dat >list.txt when is finished you have a file list.txt that you can edit or print. It's best.

stljeffbb1

09-17-05, 07:14 PM

OK, thanks again for the help Sansal! I also look forward to your new milk-cow mod!

Bravo!

:rock: :up: :know:

-Jeff

iambecomelife

09-17-05, 07:30 PM

Thanks for the tips and the new version, sansal. I'll try them out asap.

Type941

09-17-05, 07:41 PM

Is there any other NON-Rapidshare mirror to this great tool? :) please.... :yep:

Syxx_Killer

09-17-05, 07:48 PM

Here, try this, Type941. This is the first time I used this service. If things seem to work good, I may start using it instead of Rapidshare.

http://www.savefile.com/files.php?fid=5901126

stljeffbb1

09-17-05, 09:39 PM

OK, I've been playing with the Sansal tool...........

1) I can now get my 3D rendering program to import the .obj files that the Sansal tool creates....yaay....I had to use some older "Python Scripts" as they are called.....however I still can't export to .obj within the program (Blender) for some reason...I think this is a problem with Blender (I tried the XSI mod tool and I have never been able to import an .obj file)

2) OK, now when I'm using the Sansal tool, I do not get any more error messages, but let me describe what is happening:

C:\Pack3D>Pack3D I NBB_SaoPaulo.dat 3d\113_NF_Boat_2_catarg.obj
Importing objet: NBB_Revenge_crane

C:\Pack3D>

Taking Sansal's suggestion, I tried to import a mast from a fishing boat into the spot on the Sao Paulo (which is still really the Revenge) where the crane goes (aft of center).....however, the "NBB_Revenge_crane" message comes up, and when I look in the museum, the crane is still there....

I wonder if some things need to be changed in the .dat file to accomodate new files or something like this....at the very least, I can begin trial and error editing, but it would be great if I could do it visually....I'm fighting against a couple of different things here, but I'm sure I'll get it.....back to experimenting!

-Jeff

Commander1980

09-18-05, 07:56 AM

i think, you have to change the name of the importing obj into that of the obj you want to replace.

but

Taking Sansal's suggestion, I tried to import a mast from a fishing boat into the spot on the Sao Paulo (which is still really the Revenge) where the crane goes (aft of center).....however, the "NBB_Revenge_crane" message comes up, and when I look in the museum, the crane is still there....

the same here. I tried to import more that 12 objects from dido into fiji, but nothing changes.

stljeffbb1

09-18-05, 10:38 AM

Hi everyone....

Commander1980....I tried copying the NF_Boat_2 mast (catarg), renaming it 113_NBB_Revenge_crane.obj, then using the Sansal tool to insert it into the NBB_Revenge.dat file......nothing changed

:(

Quoting Sansal from his post announcing this tool:

Now i'm working in a problem with reinyection of .obj

I think this indicates maybe there is still a problem.....

So, I've begun trial and error hexediting to see what can be modified....using the Sansal list.txt option ("L"), I obtained the position of the NBB_Revenge_boat07 and looked at the data:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/stljeffbb/MarkerforBBRevengeBoat7.jpg

I noticed that before the ID (BF3E9C95970576BF), there are three pieces of data that, if I use my imagination, I could see as a 3D location representation (it starts with the highlighted portion and looks, before editing, like 04 0000 0064 0000 004A 0000 00...then the ID string begins)....I changed the "04" to "11"...the boat disappeared in the museum screen, but the game did not CTD....even though this might not sound like much, it is a beginning, as the change in the byte DID result in a change in game...

:damn:

-Jeff

EDIT: I changed the "11" to "05" (it was originally "04"), and the boat was still missing, so perhaps this portion of the object does still not modify it.

sergbuto

09-18-05, 10:42 AM

Sansal,

I tried to import OBJ files with the same object created by three different programs. None of them could be imported. And the errors were different for each of them. Is the reading-in routine pretty specific?

Sansal

09-18-05, 12:16 PM

I working now on it. Now i'm testing this....

lurbz

09-18-05, 01:55 PM

stljeffbb1, moving parts is easy, i'll break up that type 4 node for you:

04 00 00 00 is the chunk type (if you touch this, no wonder the boat vanishes) ;)
64 00 00 00 "subtype"
4A 00 00 00 data size
BF-3E-9C-95-97-05-76-BF chunk id
BB-5F-44-93-D0-B4-40-BD parent node chunk id
8A-B7-88-69-67-C0-0C-8B 3D part id
00 something
01 something else
D1 03 37 3F = 0.71490200 X
90 ED 9A 3F = 1.21037500 Y
FA 0A 23 C0 =-2.54754500 Z

X,Y and Z are encoded in "IEEE single precision not rounded" float format:
you have an online converter for that here:
http://babbage.cs.qc.edu/courses/cs341/IEEE-754hex32.html
http://babbage.cs.qc.edu/courses/cs341/IEEE-754.html
be careful, because the order of the hex result in that page must be inverted into the dat file (just convert 0.71490200 in the second link and compare the result).

Every type 4 chunk will be the same.

Buen trabajo Sansal..... :)

Sansal

09-18-05, 02:16 PM

Gracias lurbz, pero todavia lo tengo en pañales. Lo más dificil lo hiciste tú sacando el formato.

(Thanks lurbz. The most dificult was give us the format of dat's)

stljeffbb1

09-18-05, 02:20 PM

Hi lurbz.....been a while, eh?

Thanks again for your tool! It's been very helpful! Because of you, I now know how to clone!

Thanks for the tip on the data as well....(EDIT: heh heh...I wasn't really that close to the solution) however, it would have taken me a lot longer had you not offered the answer! :up:

I'll give this a try.....

Thanks,

-Jeff

Sansal

09-18-05, 03:36 PM

Ready.

Now clon the textures and you can import another 3d textures, works fine with obj extracts with this tool i don't know the subrealism that this can do with others obj :-j but i like to see it.

http://rapidshare.de/files/5416649/pack3d_220105.zip.html

Thanks stljeffbb1 you are a good tester,

Sansal

09-18-05, 03:47 PM

I tried to import OBJ files with the same object created by three different programs. None of them could be imported. And the errors were different for each of them. Is the reading-in routine pretty specific?

I need see this objs. Whats programs are you playing? They need to have a similar format as a obj extracted by Lurbz's tool or mine. My testings are with Maya but i have some problems with UV map. But i'm very close of the solution....when i know to use Maya, this tutorials are endless.

Thanks to all for your infinity patience.

stljeffbb1

09-18-05, 05:18 PM

Aw shucks :oops:

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I must admit that learning how to mod is my number one hobby in my life right now! And I've really been having fun plowing through this stuff.....I can see what Beery means when he was asked in a much earlier thread if he played anymore and he responded (paraphrasing) it was more of a challenge getting this stuff to work in game than playing the game itself!

Unfortunately, the way my job is, I only have weekends.....I have been pulling some really lousy work hours the last couple of weeks, giving me only Saturdays and parts of Sundays....I'm actually at work right now trying to keep on top of everything! :(

I'll have some more time to see the fruits of your work, Sansal! :) I'm looking forward to seeing a fishing boat mast where a crane should be on the deck of the BB Revenge! :doh:

-Jeff

EDIT: I second that :rotfl: concerning "The Matrix" below...I just don't want to spam!

Sansal

09-18-05, 05:31 PM

Welcome to Matrix !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :|\

Rubini

09-18-05, 05:41 PM

Welcome to Matrix !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :|\

:lol: :rotfl: :lol: :rotfl:

Rubini.

stljeffbb1

09-18-05, 07:11 PM

YAAHOOOOO!!

The Sansal importer function works!

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/stljeffbb/FBoat2mastonRevengeBBYAAY.jpg

The double red circle is highlighting the mast from NF_Boat_2 imbedded where a crane should be!

....however, I found out something else too! When I happened to look at the BB Sao Paulo (which was cloned using the Sansal tool), it too had the NF_Boat_2 mast where a crane should be!

:o

I think this might reinforce the idea that, to modify units, one may have to clone using the "full" method.....however.....I need to do more tests before this is conclusive. I did try importing the mast into the BB SaoPaulo before....I wonder if it actually did make it in, but it just didn't show up......but this doesn't make sense either!

Lets test some more!

:up:

-Jeff

EDIT: After some further tests, there is no question that cloning using the Sansal tool results in a clone that, if you modify an object in the original, the clone will also have the modification. I imported a KGV Double turret (without the barrels of the gun, and I'm not sure if could fire in the "crane" position....I tend to doubt it, but who knows?) into the crane position, and it appeared in both the BB Revenge and BB Sao Paulo. It also assumed what I believe to be a .tga that was associated with the crane, or at least a part of the .tga designed to repesent the crane area. This, I think, means that to actually modify a clone, the clone must be a "full" clone.

Still, the Sansal tool will make things much easier.... One can use the tool, using the list feature, to find all of the IDs and then manually edit the "missing" IDs using my method that starts this thread.

However, making a "lite" clone (using the Sansal tool, and for lack of a better term) will mean that one can use the text based loadouts in the EQP, etc. files and make many different kinds of units! :up:

2nd EDIT (19 September): OOPS, I used a clone from an earlier version of the Sansal tool.....the earlier version had a little problem, but Sansal's newest version works great, creating "full" clones! :up:

Commander1980

09-19-05, 01:51 AM

Great work Sansal, you're the man!! :up:

Interesting jeff, nice! Did you rename the boat's object file into the Revenge-crane object-name?

And is there any possibility to "delete" objects? Can i rename an "empty" file to an object file and import it into the dat file?

Sansal

09-19-05, 04:14 AM

Still, the Sansal tool will make things much easier.... One can use the tool, using the list feature, to find all of the IDs and then manually edit the "missing" IDs using my method that starts this thread

I don't understand good (sorry my english). But the clone with this tool is a full clone. All ids of all files, no exceptions.

Interesting jeff, nice! Did you rename the boat's object file into the Revenge-crane object-name?

And is there any possibility to "delete" objects? Can i rename an "empty" file to an object file and import it into the dat file?

Nop :( The hexeditor it's needed for this, you can list all chunks, with Lurbz's tool or mine, with her position in the file and make this modifications.

martes86

09-19-05, 08:21 AM

Still, the Sansal tool will make things much easier.... One can use the tool, using the list feature, to find all of the IDs and then manually edit the "missing" IDs using my method that starts this thread

I don't understand good (sorry my english). But the clone with this tool is a full clone. All ids of all files, no exceptions.

Asi lo entenderas mejor ;) :

"Aun así, la herramienta de Sansal hará las cosas mucho mas fáciles... Uno puede usar la herramienta, usando la característica de listado, para encontrar todas las IDs y después manualmente editar las IDs que 'faltan' usando mi método que abre el hilo"

PD.: I actually translated the quote for Sansal, so he understands it better. :rock:

stljeffbb1

09-19-05, 09:14 AM

Thanks martes86! :up:

I don't understand good (sorry my english). But the clone with this tool is a full clone. All ids of all files, no exceptions.

Sorry, I don't understand everything about ID's, so forgive my terms.

Hmmmm....it is still interesting then, that when I make changes to the BB Revenge, and I do not touch the BB Sao Paulo (which is a clone of the Revenge), those changes appear on the BB Sao Paulo! :hmm: If this is not a full clone, then I'm not sure why we have the same object showing up on two "different" ships.....I have tested the BB Sao Paulo with the BB Revenge in the same mission, and the game has worked well (other than the .tga being the same, but I think I have an idea about that).

I should learn Espanol and catch up with my heritage ;)

-Jeff

Sansal

09-19-05, 10:25 AM

Are you reclone BB Sao Paulo with last version of the tool? Before the textures don't work fine. You give me the way listing ids with Lurbz tool.

In my last testings all changes are visible, at sime time, with the original ship; textures and 3d transform. I'm sure 100% about this.

Cheers,

P.D. Bueno es saber que me entiendes :)

stljeffbb1

09-19-05, 05:11 PM

OOPS!!!! :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

I am wrong!!!!!!

The BB Sao Paulo was a clone from early version

versión anterior

Mis apologías

:-?

:D

-Jeff

PS.... this is great news then! I am now REALLY looking forward to being able to import objects without any problems!

PPS Bueno es saber que me entiendes

...si, si! :rotfl:

Sansal

09-19-05, 05:22 PM

Now works fine with Wing3D obj formats :) For textures put the original make it with Wing3D.

http://rapidshare.de/files/5416649/pack3d_220105.zip.html

My promise that the next version will be windowed.

Este juego es nuestro :rock:

stljeffbb1

09-19-05, 05:36 PM

Este juego es nuestro

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :|\

Yes!

:sunny:

-Jeff

Cdre Gibs

09-19-05, 07:46 PM

Needs a README in ENGLISH.

I suggest that some1 translate 1 for Sansal.

Hell no disrespect intended, but I have a bugger of a time understanding Sansal at the best of times !

All I keep getting is a Java error msg. Pity.

stljeffbb1

09-19-05, 09:00 PM

Needs a README in ENGLISH.

If Sansal likes the idea, I could start to work on one....as long as I understand exactly how the program works.....

I believe I'm close to knowing enough!

EDIT (20 September)....That's great if martes86 would like to do a README in English.....I would be happy to help if needed. :)

-Jeff

Cdre Gibs

09-19-05, 09:08 PM

iambecomelife

09-19-05, 09:36 PM

Thanks to sansal's tool I was finally able to view some 3d objects. I downloaded the latest version and also obtained a tool called wings3d (apparently derivative of wing3d). It's at http://www.wings3d.com/. I ran it and imported the items I extracted from the dat file and got them to appear. It also seems easy to manipulate them, although I haven't tried reimporting yet. I don't know if you guys are already using other programs to edit 3d models, but just in case you want something easy to use and free...

iambecomelife

09-19-05, 09:40 PM

Well when U think about it, a Tool as important as this should really have a very Clear Readme in at least English and German. If it was expanded to include Spanish and French then that would be even better.

Sadly I only speak and read english, so dont go looking at me for the above ! :)

Ohh btw I was wondering if the *.OBJ in SHIII were a type of WaveFront Object. The reason I mention this, is that from several post made by the SHIII Dev's, make mention of 3D MAX and the Object importer tool ! Now I just checked my MAX 7 and it has a importer for WaveFront Objects (*.OBJ), but atm because I cant get the damn bits outa the DAT I cant confirm this. :(

They are wavefront objects. That's why I was able to view them in 3dwings, although it might be necessary to install a plugin for it (which is included in the download). To extract them, just do the pack3d o [ship'sname.dat] command with sansal's tool. They will all be in the folder named "3d" that the tool automatically creates upon execution of the command.

BTW, if there are any really good 3d modelers lurking out there - PLEASE contribute! This could be something big, and we want all the units we can get! :D

stljeffbb1

09-19-05, 09:58 PM

Hi everyone.....

In response to Commander1980's quesiton:

Did you rename the boat's object file into the Revenge-crane object-name?

For now, I just renamed the object I imported the exact same name of the object I was replacing (113_NBB_Revenge_crane.obj)

iambecomelife....thanks for the Wings3d link! I've been looking for a good 3d editing program, and I've had problems with Blender concerning exporting for some reason.

OK, time to try the latest version of Sansal's tool! Hopefully I won't make anymore noob errors ;)

-Jeff

stljeffbb1

09-19-05, 10:44 PM

OK, just for fun, I've been trying to import .obj files that I have edited using Wings3d......unfortunately, I'm not having any luck as of yet, and I'm getting this error message:

Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NumberFormatException: For input string: ""

at java.lang.NumberFormatException.forInputString(Unk nown Source)
at java.lang.Integer.parseInt(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Short.parseShort(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Short.<init>(Unknown Source)
at Pack3D.lineToTriangle(Pack3D.java:588)
at Pack3D.toDatFile(Pack3D.java:516)
at Pack3D.main(Pack3D.java:54)

However.....I'm very new with 3D graphics programs, so I bet I'm doing something wrong.....I am still able to import objects I do not modify

-Jeff

Cdre Gibs

09-20-05, 01:30 AM

They are wavefront objects. That's why I was able to view them in 3dwings, although it might be necessary to install a plugin for it (which is included in the download). To extract them, just do the pack3d o [ship'sname.dat] command with sansal's tool. They will all be in the folder named "3d" that the tool automatically creates upon execution of the command.

BTW, if there are any really good 3d modelers lurking out there - PLEASE contribute! This could be something big, and we want all the units we can get! :D

Well it wont work for me, mores the pity because I can import Wavefront objects straight into my 3D Max 7 :damn:

I been just itchen to import into SHIII a lot of my bits from BF42. Hell my Biber is just sitting here collecting DUST ! :cry:

Ahh well, maybe when it has a windows GUI the Java error will be no more ( I hope ).

And yes I have java, need it for Netscape, latest version too.

martes86

09-20-05, 02:53 AM

Needs a README in ENGLISH.

I suggest that some1 translate 1 for Sansal.

Hell no disrespect intended, but I have a bugger of a time understanding Sansal at the best of times !

I'll ask Sansal. Since I translated the readme for the milk-cows mod, I can also translate this one. ;)

Sansal

09-20-05, 04:42 AM

Well it wont work for me, mores the pity because I can import Wavefront objects straight into my 3D Max 7

There are third-party programs that translate this format to Wavefront/Alias. Maya have a plugin to import 3DMax objects. You have some options to export this collection.

Cheers,

Cdre Gibs

09-20-05, 08:15 AM

There are third-party programs that translate this format to Wavefront/Alias. Maya have a plugin to import 3DMax objects. You have some options to export this collection.

Cheers,

Again either I'm not understanding u, or ur not understanding me. I at this moment Can't get the damn objects out of the DAT files with ur util. IF I had the objects I can open them with 3D Studio MAX, NO plugin required. I have been usen 3D Max for near on 3 years now and its my prefered Model program. So basicaly as soon as I can get this damn util to work, I'm set .

So I await ur Windows GUI version in hope that it works correctly.

martes86

09-20-05, 09:19 AM

Por si acaso, no se vaya a mosquear el tio (EDIT: bueno no, parece que es solo un poco de desesperacion :D ), te traduzco:

De nuevo o yo no te estoy entendiendo, o tu no me estas entendiendo. En este momento no puedo sacar los malditos objetos de los DAT con tu herramienta. SI tuviese los objetos puedo abrirlos con 3D Studio MAX, sin plugins. Llevo usando 3D Max ya casi 3 años y es mi programa de modelado preferido. Asi que basicamente tan pronto como pueda hacer funcionar esta maldita herramienta, estaré listo.

Por lo que esperaré tu versión de interfaz de Windows con la esperanza de que funcione correctamente.

PS.: Gibs, try not to get angry. Sansal has explained quite in detail and as he has been able every detail of this tool. Just be patient.

Cdre Gibs

09-20-05, 09:34 AM

errr - were did I get Mad ??? :88)

Frustrated maybe with the situation - yes (Not Sansals doing), but mad/angry. Nope !

Commander1980

09-20-05, 09:38 AM

All I keep getting is a Java error msg. Pity.

Do you have the old version of that program? Are there many files in the pach3d folder or are they all in the bin-folder? If yes, copy all files from bin to the pack3d directory.

martes86

09-20-05, 09:41 AM

errr - were did I get Mad ??? :88)

Frustrated maybe with the situation - yes (Not Sansals doing), but mad/angry. Nope !

Ah, ok then. :rock:

Cdre Gibs

09-20-05, 09:52 AM

All I keep getting is a Java error msg. Pity.

Do you have the old version of that program? .

And yes I have java, need it for Netscape, latest version too.

Are there many files in the pach3d folder or are they all in the bin-folder? If yes, yop all files from bin to the pack3d directory.

Yep, I have Sansals latest util, all files are in Pack3D correctly.

It just keeps telling me - 'Java' is not able to run in dos mode! Damn annoying !

Sansal

09-20-05, 12:23 PM

It just keeps telling me - 'Java' is not able to run in dos mode! Damn annoying !

Now i can understand you!!!!!!!

If you see the following error message
This program cannot be run in DOS mode.

then do the following:
Open the MS-DOS shell (Windows/Start/Programs/MS-DOS Prompt)

Right-click on the title bar

Select Properties
Choose the Program tab
Push the Advanced button
Make sure the item "Prevent MS-DOS-based programs from detecting Windows" is unchecked
Select OK
Select OK again
Exit the MS-DOS shell
Restart your computer.

I guess that this solve your problem with Windows :D

Commander1980

09-20-05, 02:03 PM

I have still problems with changed objects don't show up in the game. Where is the mistake?

When processsing the import-option, the program says Importing object xxx_xxx and it seems to be fine - but in the game, the model is still the same... :roll:

Sansal

09-20-05, 03:53 PM

Only the last version import the objects. There was a bug and the tool read the obj but after don't write it on the dat.

In this las version i see another bug with the textures. I'm testing now. I hope that this night you can see my new type XIV for Milk Cows :)

Sorry for all,

Rubini

09-20-05, 03:58 PM

In this las version i see another bug with the textures. I'm testing now. I hope that this night you can see my new type XIV for Milk Cows :)

Great Sansal! :up:

Rubini.

Sansal

09-20-05, 07:06 PM

I need work little more with textures but i'm very very close :rotfl:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/sansal/2879ee5d.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/sansal/3d03d64b.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/sansal/400be3d9.jpg

AG124

09-20-05, 07:29 PM

iambecomelife

09-20-05, 07:35 PM

Does this mean that you can change the size of individual ship parts, such as bridges, funnels, and turrets? If so, then the range of new ships that can be accurately hex edited will grow substantially, as more parts will become available. Two that come to mind are a 4500 ton freighter (which couldn't be made before because of the lack of a suitable sized hull) and British CAs (which could have better superstructures available). This is very exciting indeed, but maybe I am getting my hopes up - I hope not.

:up:

I've actually started one of those projects. I have a hastily-created 4000-4500 old-fashioned merchantman that I made by simply enlarging the coastal merchant model.

According to my calculations the new unit is about 350-375 scale feet long - roughly appropriate for a vessel of that tonnage. I got the model to show up fine in wings3d; the only problem is that the game failed to detect the 3d modification. I'm going to download the latest version of the tool and try again.

Cdre Gibs

09-20-05, 07:51 PM

Now i can understand you!!!!!!!

If you see the following error message
This program cannot be run in DOS mode.

then do the following:
Open the MS-DOS shell (Windows/Start/Programs/MS-DOS Prompt)

Right-click on the title bar

Select Properties
Choose the Program tab
Push the Advanced button
Make sure the item "Prevent MS-DOS-based programs from detecting Windows" is unchecked
Select OK
Select OK again
Exit the MS-DOS shell
Restart your computer.

I guess that this solve your problem with Windows :D

Ummm, either ur not using XP Pro SP1, or my XP Pro SP1 is broke ( I hope not ) but no such option is available. I did check for this as soon as I started getting the error msg's. Sadly as stated, no option.

iambecomelife

09-20-05, 08:21 PM

Cdr Gibbs, can you post all of the commands you are typing in the command prompt window in order to try and extract the obj files? No offense or anything, but I wan't able to do this at first because I missed something pretty simple, and I'd like to see if all the commands you're using are correct.

Cdre Gibs

09-20-05, 08:42 PM

U know, it wouldnt surprise me if it WAS a PEBKAC error on my behalf :lol:

Ok, first off, I just unzipped the Pack3d in to "D:\Temp\Pack3d"

Then I copied the whole ships files I wanted to clone ( in this case the Dido) into "D:\Temp\Pack3d"

Then I start MSDOS, window pops up with C/L :

"C:\Documents and Settings\myusername>_"

I then type in at the dos prompt :

"CD D:\Temp\Pack3d>pack3d o NCL_Dido.dat "

or

"CD D:\Temp\Pack3d>pack3d c NCL_Dido.dat 1000001"

end resault :

'Java' can not be run in DOS mode.

And thx for taking the time, but me thinks me broke something.

iambecomelife

09-20-05, 09:02 PM

Commander1980

09-21-05, 02:35 AM

Only the last version import the objects. There was a bug and the tool read the obj but after don't write it on the dat.

mhm, the last version is that rapidshare link on page 4?

I tried to import the Type34 funnel into the Buckley-model.

the buckley funnel has three files, named:
97_SHD_cos_NDE_Buckley
92_reflect_cos_NDE_Buckley
86_NDE_Buckley_cos

i copied the Type34 funnel files (3 files) and renamed them like the buckley files and than started importing - but with no success. Where is the error?

Shadow9216

09-21-05, 07:06 AM

I have deck schematics for the Castle class (follow on to Flower)...anyone want to have a go?

stljeffbb1

09-21-05, 11:21 AM

iambecomelife

09-21-05, 02:09 PM

Hi everyone....

iambecomelife wrote:

According to my calculations the new unit is about 350-375 scale feet long - roughly appropriate for a vessel of that tonnage. I got the model to show up fine in wings3d; the only problem is that the game failed to detect the 3d modification.

I'm having similar problems....I edited the NF_Boat_2_Maindeck.obj (just a little) using another 3d program. I then imported it into Wings3D. I then exported it and re-imported it, and it shows up nicely in Wings3d, however, upon re-exporting it and then using the Sansal tool to import into the .dat, I get error messages. As I mentioned before, I can import .obj very well when I don't edit them...I really do believe its an issue with my 3d rendering programs as opposed to the Sansal tool....

So, now a question for Sansal. :D

Sansal, does Maya work well for importing .obj into your .dat files? Do they look good, or does it look like Salvador Dali? ;)

Sansal, your milk-cow looks very promising! Did you edit .obj using Maya to make this?

Thanks everyone.....I look forward to this weekend when I will really be able to dig into this stuff! :damn: :rotfl:

-Jeff

Actually it's working for me now. I used the latest version of sansal's tool and extracted the dat file's modded hull in wings3d before I looked at it in "Museum" mode just to make sure the file was reading the changes, and it was. The modded ship looked hideous, but it's a start.

Does anyone know if it's possible to edit the positions of the 3d objects like cranes and pipes in 3d, or do these positions need to be hex edited? Also, how does texturing work? After I modded the coastal merchant the game used the deck texture as a texture for most of the hull. If anyone knows how to control this, please let me know.

Commander1980

09-21-05, 03:12 PM

Sansal

09-21-05, 04:48 PM

Does anyone know if it's possible to edit the positions of the 3d objects like cranes and pipes in 3d, or do these positions need to be hex edited? Also, how does texturing work? After I modded the coastal merchant the game used the deck texture as a texture for most of the hull. If anyone knows how to control this, please let me know.

jep, the same here.

You need to change the chunks types 4 with the same label, by hand using hexeditor. Using list option (pack3d l ship.dat >list.txt ) you can see this object

==================
Obj:49
Type: 4/100
id: FAF3AA1A11F9FCFD Label: cfg#A01_NPT_Ge
size: 66 Position:6524118

===================

This type 4/100 control the position of antii-air gun number 01. Then you will go to position 6524118 in the dat file.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/sansal/37131146.jpg

This 12 bytes, after 01, are 4 to x, 4 to y and 4 to z positions. In some cases, there are 8 bytes more that control elevation and orientation of this object.

Also, how does texturing work?

My last problem, it's a little complex, for now :D Whit this version i can do this type xiv....but, but, but, the sub show original texture, NPBOAT_GE, i don't understand why :damn: . The label ? :hmm:

http://rapidshare.de/files/5416649/pack3d_220105.zip.html

Sansal, does Maya work well for importing .obj into your .dat files? Do they look good, or does it look like Salvador Dali?

Sansal, your milk-cow looks very promising! Did you edit .obj using Maya to make this?

Works fine with Maya, in the tpye XIV i only change the dimension and some vertexs. Sergbuto send my a obj that he make with Wings3d and i can see a fuselage of F4UF after a little modification of the tool. Please, you send me this obj (you will see a private message), i need to see this obj (this 3d programs don't fine obj format sometimes, and if you work with more than one .... :-? )

Cheers,

09-22-05, 03:09 AM

I am trying to clone a ship using Sansal tool. But it doesn't have Windows interface, so do not understand how it works step by step. :damn:

Sansal

09-22-05, 03:41 PM

Hi:

1.- Copy all files of the original ship in a new folder.
2.- Rename files with the same name as the new folder. And change the classname in the file .cfg.
3.- Copy my tool to this folder
4.- Open a Dos windows
5.- Go to the folder with the DOS comand cd
6.- Then you can do: Pack3d c new_ship.dat 99558877111555

Saludos,

09-23-05, 05:58 AM

Many thanks! :up:

stljeffbb1

09-23-05, 08:06 PM

Woohoo.....I was able to edit an object in Wings 3D and then import it using the Sansal tool back into the DAT file!

It looks like YUCK, but its a start!

Thanks to Sansal for helping me out! :up:

I won't even bother to post a pic, because its a floating NF_Boat_2 main deck with weird looking wings, and its far up in the air..... :hulk: = Frankenstein!

One quick question....does moving the object along the x, y, or z axis in Wings 3D show up in the game? I moved the object some, and it did not appear moved.....is this an edit we need to do with hexeditor? Thanks to lurbz for showing us where those edit points are! :up:

Este juego es nuestro

Oh yes!

-Jeff

iambecomelife

09-23-05, 08:16 PM

Good luck! Glad you're getting the hang of it. Please tell me you're good at 3d modeling - my stuff looks freakish so far. :doh:

stljeffbb1

09-23-05, 09:02 PM

Thanks iambecomelife :know:

Nope, I haven't got the hang of it quite yet.....my stuff looks weird, too....now, I need to learn how to edit in 3D.....but thanks for Wings 3D....it works the best of all of the programs I've tried so far....I haven't tried Maya yet, because I'm afraid of the price (mucho dinero)....

There is one thing I've found out.....

When I use Wings 3D, as long as even a part of an object is above 0, then is seems to show up in the assigned spot on the ship (ex. where the crane used to go, the NF_Boat_2 deck goes), however, once all of it gets below 0 (either on x, y, or z axis), it disappears.

One last thing, I think the key to 3d editing is learning how to manipulate the sides to make an object look full.

When I learn more, I'll report.

-Jeff

Kpt. Lehmann

09-23-05, 11:30 PM

LMAO! :rotfl:

Who needs the SDK when you have modders like Sansal, Sergbuto, Rubini, CCIP, Jasonb885, Jungman, Pascal, Captain America, and soooo many other great folks. :up:

Cdre Gibs

09-24-05, 04:23 AM

Well after 5 days of trying to get Sansals tool to work, its still a no go.
There for I would like to ask any1 thats interested to help in a lil experiment. If some1 sends me the objects unpacked from a dat file I will see if its possible to edit them in 3D Max.

Sansal I tried matey, I realy did, even used that lil edit fix u told me about. It just refuses to work. I can only conclude that something in my OS is broke. When I installed SP2, it gave me nothing but grief. In the end I had to remove it. In doing so not all of SP2 was cleanly removed, there are some remnents still left over that continue to give me grief. This is such a case I believe. My PC realy needs to have C: drive Formated and redone.

stljeffbb1

09-25-05, 01:24 AM

Oof! :P

This is going to be hard to accomplish!

When moving some textures with the BB Sao Paulo (really trying to get rid of those bulges on the hull left over from BB Revenge so it looks more like the Sao Paulo), I was able to import the .obj into the .dat file....I stretched the front of the hull out and the back of the hull in.....it worked, but the .tga textures were all messed up! I'm guessing that, when editing the .obj, we will have to edit the .tga map as well so that it all works and looks good! This will be quite a bit of work, but still very do-able.

It would be great if it were possible to map out where the .tga items transfer into the game.

:up:

-Jeff

09-27-05, 06:33 AM

Sansal's tool works fine under Win98 at my office, but totaly refuses to launch under XP at home :hmm:

Sansal

09-27-05, 06:45 AM

Have you install java in your XP? www.java.com

Cheers,

AG124

09-27-05, 09:04 AM

Would it ever be possible to import the models from SH2? I know they are in a different format, but maybe they could be converted? It would provide us with a lot of ready-made models, anyway.

09-28-05, 08:52 AM

Have you install java in your XP? www.java.com

Cheers,

Yes, I have latest java installed, but it shows just black screen and stops.
Finally, it stopped to work at my office (luckely, I managed to make most of what i wanted, yesturday :rock: ), and I don't know why. It says that a pass, file or library is missed :( Dropping files from fresh or later versions doesn't help.
I want Sansal's tool back! :damn:

Sansal

09-30-05, 09:22 PM

http://rapidshare.de/files/5729597/Pack3D.jar.html

Copy in sh3 folder....tomorrow the manual :zzz:

stljeffbb1

09-30-05, 11:54 PM

oooooooh.....the new windows version of Sansal's tool looks good!

:up:

-Jeff

Canaris

10-01-05, 02:17 AM

Sansal

10-01-05, 07:09 AM

Looks fine Sansal. :up:
Hm, because of that "Fun with Wings 3d"-thread i had a look into the Wavefront .obj file format. Their were reported some things about wrong texturemappings. Following:
Wavefront .obj file format uses a different v offset in uvw-maps.
That means obj has the zero-coordinate for v on the opposite of the mapfile than SH3 geometry. Maybe that helps a little bit.

MfG
Canaris

I don't work before with 3d modelling and i don't know good the obj format. Canaris, do you know how to specify a tga texture in the obj? All that i found in the net don't explain it.

Thanks Canaris,

Seeadler

10-01-05, 07:40 AM

Textures informations are stored outside the OBJ file in a material file.

Example:
- A simple cube with a texture sun.tga mapped on all sides.
- You will get two files, the cube.obj and cube.mtl

cube.obj:

# Wavefront OBJ file: H:\Projekte\epro Software GmbH\Testobjekte\cube.obj
# Bounding box of geometry = (-20.9466,0,-23.3042) to (2.77286,21.2039,7.55135).

mtllib cube.mtl

# Coordinates for object 'Box01'
v -20.946615 0.0 7.551350
v 2.772858 0.0 7.551350
v -20.946615 0.0 -23.304178
v 2.772858 0.0 -23.304178
v -20.946615 21.203859 7.551350
v 2.772858 21.203859 7.551350
v -20.946615 21.203859 -23.304178
v 2.772858 21.203859 -23.304178
v -20.946615 0.0 7.551350
v 2.772858 0.0 7.551350
v 2.772858 21.203859 7.551350
v 2.772858 21.203859 7.551350
v -20.946615 21.203859 7.551350
v -20.946615 0.0 7.551350
v 2.772858 0.0 -23.304178
v 2.772858 21.203859 7.551350
v 2.772858 0.0 -23.304178
v -20.946615 0.0 -23.304178
v -20.946615 21.203859 -23.304178
v -20.946615 21.203859 -23.304178
v 2.772858 21.203859 -23.304178
v 2.772858 0.0 -23.304178
v -20.946615 0.0 -23.304178
v -20.946615 21.203859 7.551350
v -20.946615 21.203859 7.551350
v -20.946615 0.0 -23.304178
# 26 vertices

vt 0.0 0.0 0.0
vt 0.0 1.000000 0.0
vt 1.000000 0.0 0.0
vt 1.000000 1.000000 0.0
# 4 texture vertices

vn -1.0 0.0 0.0
vn 0.0 -1.0 0.0
vn 0.0 0.0 -1.0
vn 0.0 0.0 1.0
vn 0.0 1.0 0.0
vn 1.0 0.0 0.0
# 6 normals

usemtl 01___default

o Box01
g Box01

s off
f 1/3/2 3/4/2 4/2/2
f 4/2/2 2/1/2 1/3/2
f 5/1/5 6/3/5 8/4/5
f 8/4/5 7/2/5 5/1/5
f 9/1/4 10/3/4 11/4/4
f 12/4/4 13/2/4 14/1/4
f 2/1/6 15/3/6 8/4/6
f 8/4/6 16/2/6 2/1/6
f 17/1/3 18/3/3 19/4/3
f 20/4/3 21/2/3 22/1/3
f 23/1/1 1/3/1 24/4/1
f 25/4/1 7/2/1 26/1/1
# 12 polygons

cube.mtl:

# Wavefront OBJ file: H:\Projekte\epro Software GmbH\Testobjekte\cube.obj
# Bounding box of geometry = (-20.9466,0,-23.3042) to (2.77286,21.2039,7.55135).

newmtl default
Ns 32
d 1
illum 2
Kd 0.4 0.4 0.4
Ks 0.7 0.7 0.7
Ka 0.3 0.3 0.3

newmtl 01___default
Ns 3
d 1
illum 2
Kd 0.588235 0.588235 0.588235
Ks 0 0 0
Ka 0.588235 0.588235 0.588235
map_Kd sun.tga

Sansal

10-01-05, 08:02 AM

Many thanks Seeadler :up:

What is Kd Ks Ka in mtl ? Three posible images?

Canaris

10-01-05, 08:12 AM

Hm, i also didn't use the obj-format, but how the faces are written is very useful for work with SH3-geometry. :)
To add a material is very simple:

# Wavefront OBJ file
# header & blabla
mtllib NCL_Dido_boat02.mtl #use a file to specify the materials
g NCL_Dido_boat02 #objectname as group
v 0.000912 0.049299 -0.350204
v 0.000798 -0.063856 -0.287090
v -0.000745 -0.063856 0.282524
v -0.000864 0.049307 0.350204
# and so on
vt 0.860849 0.364295
vt 0.741674 0.314768
vt 0.980788 0.315139
vt 0.958285 0.357868
vt 0.965689 0.412230
# and so on
usemtl normal #specify the material by name(normal) that is used in following faces
f 2/3 3/2 7/1
f 7/1 15/4 2/3
f 8/6 15/4 9/5
f 9/5 1/7 8/6
f 15/4 8/6 2/3
# and so on
usemtl 2sided #specify the material by name(2sided) that is used in following faces
f 31/27 21/26 30/25
f 25/30 9/29 28/28
f 9/29 25/30 1/31
f 14/34 23/33 4/32
f 27/37 29/36 26/35
f 11/39 19/38 27/37
# and so on

and the materialfile NCL_Dido_boat02.mtl

# Wavefront material file
# header & blabla

newmtl normal # specify a new material - named normal
Ka 0 0 0 # ambient color - means what colors of ambient light are reflected (rgb)
Kd 0.898039 0.898039 0.898039 # diffuse color - means what colors of diffuse light are reflected (rgb)
Ks 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000 # specular color - - means what colors of specular light are reflected (rgb)
illum 1.000000
Ns 0.003922
map_Kd NCL_Dido.tga # specifys a mapfile for diffuse material
newmtl 2sided # the same procedure as last year
Ka 0 0 0
Kd 0.898039 0.898039 0.898039
Ks 1.000000 1.000000 1.000000
illum 1.000000
Ns 0.000000
map_Kd NCL_Dido.tga

What Ns means i don't know. But i hope that helps a little bit.

MfG
Canaris

edit: i should learn to write faster :damn:

Seeadler

10-01-05, 08:27 AM

What is Kd Ks Ka in mtl ?

Ka - defines the ambient color of the material to be (r,g,b). The default is (0.2,0.2,0.2);

Kd - defines the diffuse color of the material to be (r,g,b). The default is (0.8,0.8,0.8);

Ks - defines the specular color of the material to be (r,g,b). This color shows up in highlights. The default is (1.0,1.0,1.0);

d - defines the transparency of the material to be alpha. The default is 1.0 (not transparent at all) Some formats use Tr instead of d

Tr - defines the transparency of the material to be alpha. The default is 1.0 (not transparent at all). Some formats use d instead of Tr

Ns - defines the shininess of the material to be s. The default is 0.0

illum - denotes the illumination model used by the material. illum = 1 indicates a flat material with no specular highlights, so the value of Ks is not used. illum = 2 denotes the presence of specular highlights, and so a specification for Ks is required

map_Ka - names a file containing a texture map, which should just be an ASCII dump of RGB values

Reference:
http://www.csit.fsu.edu/~burkardt/data/mtl/mtl.html

martes86

10-01-05, 09:22 AM

I'm not professional 3D modeller, and don't use Maya or whatever you use (I use gMax), but wanted to test the new version of Sansal's tool. It's great. You can export the sub's 3D interior too, and do the things in a Windows interface... Someone to try to fix some litlle things? :D

Sansal

10-01-05, 09:40 AM

:up: Many, many, many thanks Canaris y Seeadler.....all this datas are in the type 2 chunk. Reworking to insert mtl in the export tool :ping:

Aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggg ( The Bismark is sexy )

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/sansal/f05be9d6.jpg

10-03-05, 03:13 AM

I am making HMS Arethusa light cruiser of Dido. I have edit the haul in Maya 5.0 by cutting waste dacks, but as it is my first work with 3d editor i need some help.
1. How can I add poligons to the model?
2. How can I put back cutten poligons if they are nessesary?
3. Hoe can I export edited object from Maya to SHIII .obj?
4. How can I reposition nodes for turrets deeper in the haul to put 6'' ones from Nelson?

Sansal

10-03-05, 07:20 AM

My last version of the tool don't work fine with textures but i guees to upload the solution today or tomorrow.

For questions 1 and 2. There are a new non-commercial version of Maya 7 http://www.alias.com/glb/eng/products-services/product_details.jsp?productId=1900003 whit tutorials for begginers.

3.- You need to activate the objExport plug-in.:Windows->Settings/Preferences -> Pluguin Manager

4.- You need change, with a hexeditor, the position a non-3d node like cfg#M01_NAME_OF_SHIP. If you need one torret more you can change the name of, for example, cfg#A12_NAME_OF_SHIP for cfg#M04_ and add the type of gun in the .eqp file.

Sorry my english.

Seeadler

10-03-05, 08:04 AM

Which is the correct internal OBJ format syntax to the import?
I used several 3D tools (3DMax7, Maya 5 PE, Wings3D, DeepExploration) and all outputs different OBJ formats but none of these formats can be imported.

The import tool gives as error message: "java.lang.NumberFormatException: emty String"

Also the new values copied into the OBJ structure produced by Pack3D ends with the this error while import the OBJ file.

Commander1980

10-03-05, 04:18 PM

@Sansal or anyone who knows:

How can i get a new set of textures implemented into the dat-file, so that the cloned ship will no longer use the texture of the original ship. WIth pack3d, i does not work, i think...

thx in advance :)

Edit: it works!

i opened the dat file, changed the name-entries of the original tga and copied a texture-file with the new name in the texture-folder :yep: ;)

stljeffbb1

10-03-05, 08:50 PM

Commander1980 said:

changed the name-entries of the original tga and copied a texture-file with the new name in the texture-folder

That is what I forgot to do! Rushing home to check this now! :88)

Thanks Commander1980!

:up:

-Jeff

Sansal

10-03-05, 09:04 PM

@Sansal or anyone who knows:
How can i get a new set of textures implemented into the dat-file, so that the cloned ship will no longer use the texture of the original ship. WIth pack3d, i does not work, i think...

Which is the correct internal OBJ format syntax to the import?
I used several 3D tools (3DMax7, Maya 5 PE, Wings3D, DeepExploration) and all outputs different OBJ formats but none of these formats can be imported.

The import tool gives as error message: "java.lang.NumberFormatException: emty String"

Also the new values copied into the OBJ structure produced by Pack3D ends with the this error while import the OBJ file.

Prove this version http://rapidshare.de/files/5848151/Pack3D.jar.html (the last for a long time) It need the .mtl with .obj in the same folder and works fine now....THANkS TO YOU AND CANARYS ;) The only one restricction is that this mtl have one texture for planes and two for ships, but this restrictions are imposed by the .dat's. It's posible put more textures with a hexeditor.

The Sergbuto, stljefffbb1, AGP124 and mine testings works for Maya 6 and Wings 3D. DeepExploration don't work because this program changed the indexs of the faces, in the formats that i saw.

If you want see a correct obj, you can to see the .obj that export Pack3D, but there are only v for vertex, vt for uv-map and f for triangles that is the objects that need shiii.