View Full Version : RUB fatigue makes SHIII approach unplayable
mystery meat
08-31-05, 05:38 PM
So I have been greatly enjoying playing the Real U-boat mod except for a grave problem I have with the fatigue model. After a few weeks at sea (usually less than 3 and sometimes much less if stressful things like damage repair and torp reload have been frequent) my boat becomes almost impossible to keep running as the crew drop from fatigue. Every crewman has the little black bar and eventually I can't reload torpedoes, which cuts my patrol short. Sometimes I can't even run the engines! What can I do to prevent/change this?
WolfyBrandon
08-31-05, 07:25 PM
Well if you don't like the fatigue you can do what I did and download the No Fatigue mod that actually reduces the fatigue in the game (It Does Not Eliminate It).
No_Fatigue.zip can be found here.
http://sh3modwork.realsimulation.com/
Hope this helps
Wolfy
mystery meat
08-31-05, 09:06 PM
That is excellent, thanks.
JBClark
08-31-05, 09:20 PM
But on the other hand, if you bother to read what Beery says about this you will probably find that he is right. This is only a problem on your first few patrols. After your crew gets some experience and a few qualifications and medals they can work even when fatigued.
I was concerned at first but have found this system to be vastly superior to the stock fatigue model.
JBC
MonkeyHero
08-31-05, 09:24 PM
I'm not sure why this is, and I've seen a number of people complain about it. I even have the problem myself but I've been able to get around it just by making sure I have most people resting and running in high TC.
Does anybody know why some people are experiencing this problem? My crew will not regain any energy lost to fatigue no matter how long they're in their quarters, or what TC I'm at. Is this just some weird little bug that we've all been dealing with or is there a fix that I just missed?
I'll save Beery the trouble of posting this all over again for the umpteenth million time.
This is from the RUB 1.43 readme file..all the answers are in that file.
Fatigue: the new fatigue is based on a combat stress model. It is no longer fatigue. The feature is meant to reward careful crew assignments while removing the burden of micromanagement that the original game placed on the player. In this mod the torpedo compartments and the repair area are the most stress-inducing areas of the boat, so try to keep crewmen out of these areas until they are required to work there. Also, try to limit placing watch crews on duty during bad weather. It's best to submerge when the weather is bad. Always make sure not to spend too much time at under 32x time compression.
Combat stress and crew management: When crewmen become fully stressed they will work at lower capacity. In the first couple of missions (until you train specialists) this can make it difficult to run the boat. In the short-term, place NCOs and officers in compartments which are having trouble. Between patrols, give the necessary specialist badges to NCOs and officers so that they can work the worst-affected compartments more efficiently.
Sleeping areas and fatigue: Fatigue (now combat stress) will no longer heal during time spent in the sleeping areas, but these areas will prevent crewmen from becoming more stressed. Fill these compartments with all non-essential personnel in order to keep them rested for duty.
Fatigue Marker: the fatigue marker's shape and colour has been changed. This is to remind players that high fatigue is not a 'red alert' situation. Crewmen can and will do their job even when highly stressed, but their efficiency will drop considerably. A stressed torpedo crew often takes 24 minutes to load a tube, while a fresh crew takes only 12 minutes.
JBClark
08-31-05, 09:46 PM
In RUB you don't regain energy in quarters. You just don't lose any there. In all other compartments (more in the most stressful like torpedo rooms) you get more and more fatigued the longer you are at sea. Wow! Who would have thought?
But with experience your crew can function even when fatigued.
I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all but by God, this reflects real life. I've been working on the road for almost 20 years, testing power plant emissions. These jobs come up with almost no warning. The phone will ring and we will have to drive or fly somewhere the next day for what we are told will be a few days, or a few weeks. The actual duration often exceeds the estimates by a factor of 5 or more. In 2000 I went to Sumatra for a two week job and was there for six months. We usually work 12-18 hours a day, seven days a week until the project is complete.
The kids can't handle this kind of life. Maybe one out of 20 new hires actually survive long enough to learn to be useful. You would be suprised though by how many 50 year old guys can work 14 hours, go to a bar and drink for 6 hours, sleep for three hours and come back and do it again. Day after day. Experience counts.
End of lecture. I like the RUB fatigue model.
JBC
MonkeyHero
08-31-05, 09:46 PM
So it WAS something I missed. I figured as much.
What Beery says in his read me file for 1.43 is gospel.
I took out a brand new green crew and I ran submerged during bad weather and tried as much as possible to keep crew members out of the torpedo rooms and rotating crew in the engine rooms.
I didn't show fatigue for a good while. It actually hit after attacking a convoy and I was being depth charged.
Manage your crew according to Beery's recommendations and you won't have to worry about fatigue at all, especially when your crew gets more experience.
JBClark
08-31-05, 11:36 PM
I don't know why I am so fired up on this subject but apparently I am. The RUB fatigue model is by far the best and easiest to deal with.
In my constant battle with CTDs, I recently ran two patrols with an unmodded 1.4b configuration. I hated the stock fatigue system. Regardless of my crew's efficency, I found the big red exclamation points to be very distracting.
As the captain during an attack, or a depth-charging, I can't worry about how tired my guys are. They are my guys and they will do what they have to do. Like Beery says, when they are tired they may work a little slower but they will still get the job done.
If I only kept one aspect of RUB and unmodded all the others, the fatigue system would be the part that I would keep.
JBC
Twelvefield
09-01-05, 02:49 AM
At one point, I complained to Beery that with my eyesight, it was hard to see the little minus signs. He said that his inclination was to get rid of the fatigue sign (the red !, or the -) altogether. That's food for thought. It makes crew organization much more strategic. The crew fatigue was one of those things about RUB that I really did not like at first, but now it's an integral part of the SHIII experience.
My issue with the fatigue mod was that the weather effect on fatigue was considered 'combat fatigue', which is unrealistic in the extreme - when I raised the question that bad weather causes fatigue to build faster, I was encouraged to submerge during bad weather.
This solution would have often required to stay submerged for two weeks or more, if you go by the weather on some of my patrols.
Historically and practically, this is not, imo, a valuable enhancement to the game.
In any case, I modded the basic.cfg file to allow for fatigue recovery; it necessitates a small amount of micro-management of crew, but far less than it did in vanilla sh3, and the RuB mod is far more enjoyable.
Games tend not to simulate the systematic aspects of human experiences well, if at all.
Needs to change.
...My crew will not regain any energy lost to fatigue no matter how long they're in their quarters, or what TC I'm at. Is this just some weird little bug that we've all been dealing with or is there a fix that I just missed?
This is a feature of RUb. It's the single most essential part of the fatigue mod. If it's not there the qualifications system does not work. This is why, in the standard fatigue system, players spend every patrol needlessly rotating people in and out of their bunks.
zombiewolf
09-02-05, 01:05 AM
:|\ friggen google :dead:
:smug: I like RUB and Sub Commander
It has always seemed incredible to me that some players would rather spend patrol after patrol micromanaging the sleeping habits of their crews, rather than use RUb's fatigue system and avoid all of that.
I've tried to explain many times that high fatigue states are not something to be feared. But still, some players are so afraid of fatigue that they will do almost anything to avoid having crewmen work while fully fatigued. They will gladly use a system that effectively destroys the one method that they have at their disposal to once and for all counteract fatigue. Players who use any system which allows fatigue reduction are shooting themselves in the foot. They are preventing themselves from getting rid of fatigue, and consigning themselves to endless toil playing an underwater version of musical chairs for only a short-term gain in terms of crew efficiency. True crew efficiency can only result from gaining qualifications. If players use the U-boat bunks to gain crew efficiency, they are fighting a battle they cannot win, and it will reduce their crew's chances of survival.
MonkeyHero
09-02-05, 01:17 AM
I think my main problem is that I tend to get myself sunk before my crew has a chance to gain experience.
...eventually I can't reload torpedoes, which cuts my patrol short. Sometimes I can't even run the engines!
This is impossible. You can always, always, run the engines and load torpedoes. You just have to get the right crewmen in there to do the job. Even on your first patrol, before you gain any qualifications, a green crew can do every job on the boat even when every crewman has the little black bar above their head. First place NCOs properly qualified for the compartment you want to run, then place an officer in there (again, preferably with a qualification for that compartment), then fill with other NCOs (starting with the highest ranked NCOs). Finally fill with seamen (starting with the highest ranked men). Your torpedoes will load (probably not at full speed), and your boat will move.
In an effort to keep this topic on track, I split off a few posts that were going off on a tangent. The new discussion can be found here:
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=42529
...eventually I can't reload torpedoes, which cuts my patrol short. Sometimes I can't even run the engines!
This is impossible. You can always, always, run the engines and load torpedoes. You just have to get the right crewmen in there to do the job. Even on your first patrol, before you gain any qualifications, a green crew can do every job on the boat even when every crewman has the little black bar above their head. First place NCOs properly qualified for the compartment you want to run, then place an officer in there (again, preferably with a qualification for that compartment), then fill with other NCOs (starting with the highest ranked NCOs). Finally fill with seamen (starting with the highest ranked men). Your torpedoes will load (probably not at full speed), and your boat will move.
i find this highly doubtfull too. i have played around 20 patrols with rub, and i have never ever had any problems with a crew not being able to execute basic uboat dutys, even on a long carrebian patrol with a VIIc type, which lasted almost 70 days.
there is just one thing you should keep in mind. the 3d render tc factor, defines when fatigue actualy starts to hit your crew. if you are fatiguing ur crew on a simple 35 days VII mission, even in bad weather, you r doing something completely wrong.
Gairith
09-02-05, 10:26 AM
FULLY fatigued crew. FIRST PATROL
Surface cruising
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/2256/surfacecruise7pd.th.jpg (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=surfacecruise7pd.jpg)
Surface loading while cruising
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/2239/surfaceload2yq.th.jpg (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=surfaceload2yq.jpg)
Submerged cruising
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/1563/submergedcruise8mx.th.jpg (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=submergedcruise8mx.jpg)
Submerged loading while cruising
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/8965/submergedload6cd.th.jpg (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=submergedload6cd.jpg)
Woof1701
09-02-05, 10:46 AM
My SH3 version with RUB1.43 still shows the exclamation marks and not the little black war. I may have accidentaly changed that with some other mod. Which file is responsible for that?
Takeda Shingen
09-02-05, 11:05 AM
FULLY fatigued crew. FIRST PATROL
And after only one day at sea! :o
FULLY fatigued crew. FIRST PATROL
And after only one day at sea! :o
All you have to do is run at 32x TC and put as many people in the torpedo compartments as possible. It only takes a few hours to fully fatigue a crew if you really work at it.
Some of you guys might want to use the alternate file for x1 TC included in RUB. Which file it was can't recall for the moment.
Gairith
09-03-05, 07:48 AM
FULLY fatigued crew. FIRST PATROL
And after only one day at sea! :o
All you have to do is run at 32x TC and put as many people in the torpedo compartments as possible. It only takes a few hours to fully fatigue a crew if you really work at it.
:up:
We were doing doughnuts in wilhelmshaven harbor :rock:
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