PT boats with "virtual" torpedoes (now as mod)

[sergbuto]

Attack of 8 schnellboots on a troop transport convoy consisting of 2 transports, light cruiser Dido, Tribal, Clemson and V&W destroyers :D

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/PTattack00.jpg

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/PTattack01.jpg

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/PTattack02.jpg

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/PTattack03.jpg

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/PTattack04.jpg

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/PTattack05.jpg

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/PTattack06.jpg

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/PTattack07.jpg

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/PTattack08.jpg

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/PTattack09.jpg

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/PTattack10.jpg

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/PTattack11.jpg

[Gizzmoe]

Details, please!!! :) What do you mean with "virtual torpedos"?

[Duke of Earl]

I think Serg has maybe found a way to get those little plywood monkeys to shoot torpedoes.. uh-oh... :arrgh!:

Either that, or they've become kamikaze boats...

Cordialement, Duke of Earl

[Col7777]

I hope he has, I can see wolfpacks next. :up:

Well done Serg.

[CCIP]

My guess is that he gave them slow-loading big guns that shoot underwater. Or something along those lines. :)

[Rubini]

:o

Rubini.

[FAdmiral]

Well, whatever it is, he has found a way AGAIN to make things
happen, 3 cheers for sergbuto !!!


JIM

[stljeffbb1]

I http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/stljeffbb/lovesmiley.jpg what sergbuto is doing with this game!

My bet is that he figured out a way to fling depth charges and make it look like torpedos, at least the damage model!

I am curious to see what he will pull off next!


-Jeff

[Seeteufel]

Maybe Swordfishs or Ju 88s or whatever with "virtual torpedos" ... :rock:

[Commander1980]

i think he covered a gun on the position for the aft flak ;)

i was not very successful in dowing that...

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/6555/sh3img1782005171vg.th.jpg (http://img352.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh3img1782005171vg.jpg)
:-?
;)

[sergbuto]

Don't get your hopes high, guys. Whatever it might be called (virtual, pseudo- or else) it is just a couple of 14-inch guns in addition to schnellboot's AA guns as a replacement for torpedo tubes. So CCIP's guess was right except the guns can't shoot underwater.

Regarding some entries in guns.sim in the Library folder, in particular

shell_speed
reload_speed
amount (for ammo_storage, i.e. number of shells)

the idea of this experiment was to make the guns as close as possible to torpedoes by reducing the shell speed and by adjusting the ammo amount and reload times. Shell traces and explosion were hoped to be eliminated/replaced using entries in Shells.sim (did not find anything for the gun flash though).

Well, none actually worked. Entries are there but their changes do not do anything. It seems the game does not read them. I could not even adjust the reloading time (maybe I am doing something wrong)?!

Nevertheless, still trying some things...

[stljeffbb1]

Can the shells be seen whizzing through the air like regular shells, or can you make them invisible so that all we see is the explosion when it hits the ship?

-Jeff

[CCIP]

Hmm. Well perhaps if you get anywhere with this, I can actually think of another possible use for this idea - to simulate rockets on aircraft. I'm fairly sure I've read of planes carrying rockets on ASW missions. Would certainly be quite an addition...

I know for a fact that we can put guns on airplanes. Now, if we could put a slow-shell, super-slow-reload (basically none), forward firing gun-type weapon under a plane's wing... there you have rockets. You could even have it multi-barreled if you wanted to simulate multiple rockets.

Seems like an interesting idea to try, too :hmm:

[sergbuto]

Can the shells be seen whizzing through the air like regular shells, or can you make them invisible so that all we see is the explosion when it hits the ship?

-Jeff

Yes, traces are visble so far.

[sergbuto]

Hmm. Well perhaps if you get anywhere with this, I can actually think of another possible use for this idea - to simulate rockets on aircraft. I'm fairly sure I've read of planes carrying rockets on ASW missions. Would certainly be quite an addition...

Didn't some Elcos carry rockets by the end of the war? That would fit perfectly.

I know for a fact that we can put guns on airplanes. Now, if we could put a slow-shell, super-slow-reload (basically none), forward firing gun-type weapon under a plane's wing... there you have rockets. You could even have it multi-barreled if you wanted to simulate multiple rockets.

Seems like an interesting idea to try, too :hmm:

Do airplanes strafe often? Do you have some mission where they would strafe all the time so it is possible to do testing with rockets?

[CCIP]

Well, let's just say I put a battleship turret on a Catalina today, and it certainly worked. It wasn't 100% accurate, but very good; and it would probably be less so if we could slow down the 'rockets', but still deadly enough. The one thing I'd be worried about is reload time - so that there's only one shot, and that's it.

Planes, by the way, do not go into attack runs unless they're armed with bombs or D/C's. Once those are dropped, the planes leave no matter what other weapons they have. But they will shoot all weapons they have while they're on their attack run. Since they fly directly at the sub while on their attack run, they have no problem aiming gun-type weapons properly.

I think it can work, if we can give them the right "gun" for it :hmm:

[Pkunzipper]

Great news!

What about adding torpedo to AI german subs (ther are only type II and VII), they always stay on surface, but if you can lower their visibility, as if they where submerged with only the periscope up we can get closer to simulate wolfpacks...

[Commander1980]

Maybe it is possible with using bombs? Can you replace the position of the node to 1000 meters above the boat, so it is nearly invisible? But i do not know if boats can release bombs.

[sergbuto]

I think it can work, if we can give them the right "gun" for it :hmm:

I have "spare" 4-barrel 14-inch gun I could try for that :) if you give me a 100% airattack situation (I do not have much experience with the mission editor yet).

[Farside]

*big sneeze*

different topic entitled 'look what i've found'


Something more serious:
I was experimenting with the Elco/Schnellboot to make torpedoboat-attacks on ships possible and armed them with the 6inch secondary gun from the Revenge-battleship. That gun has no turret and nearly disappeared in the 3D-model of the Schnellboot, but was still able to fire and 6 boats managed to sink a Dido-Cruiser... ;)

maybe we could use this as 'pretend' torpedos until a further time when we get torps working?

[stljeffbb1]

Are there rockets in the game....I must admit I've never played that far into it to see.....If rockets can be added to PT boats and airplanes, this might be the closest thing to torpedos yet!

:sunny:

-Jeff

[CCIP]

I think it can work, if we can give them the right "gun" for it :hmm:

I have "spare" 4-barrel 14-inch gun I could try for that :) if you give me a 100% airattack situation (I do not have much experience with the mission editor yet).

http://rapidshare.de/files/4358418/Test.zip.html

Just put this into the SingleMission folders (either English or German).

You'll be attacked by 3 catalinas with the 4x500lb loadout, so that's the loadout you have to edit in the .eqp if you want to add and test the 'rockets'. Just make sure you keep some bombs on the plane, otherwise it won't go into attack runs and just leave.

[HundertzehnGustav]

Do airplanes strafe often?

Hell sergbuto, if you were sitting in a Beaufighter, armed with Eight 60 Pound Rockets and a 21 Inch torpedo, PLUS Four 20 mm Hispano Guns with high explosive and Armorpiercing Bullets....
would you use them?

I gotta show you sumfink :yep: *pulls Sergs Nose* :up:

look here
http://lt.macfly.free.fr/images/avions/beaufighter.jpg

:arrgh!:
or here
http://www.aeroplaneart.com.au/Images/CP_Beaufighter.jpg

MMMMH, i often use Beaufighters in CFS3, and they absolutrely ROCK against enemy shipping. :D
Aint nuttn better against Subs i guess.

[CCIP]

You know, we could stick some heavier machineguns under these things' wings, too :hmm:

[sergbuto]

http://rapidshare.de/files/4358418/Test.zip.html

Just put this into the SingleMission folders (either English or German).

You'll be attacked by 3 catalinas with the 4x500lb loadout, so that's the loadout you have to edit in the .eqp if you want to add and test the 'rockets'. Just make sure you keep some bombs on the plane, otherwise it won't go into attack runs and just leave.

Did testing and had to give up on the idea of having "rockets" on the plane. Since I failed to adjust reloading times or ammo amount, the plane never leaves and keeps shooting the "rockets".

But the principle works well for PT-boats and AI U-boats because they have to follow assigned waypoints and leave immediately after attack.

[CCIP]

Really? I was under the impression they'd stop attacking as soon as they dropped all their bombs. :hmm:

[iambecomelife]

Well, let's just say I put a battleship turret on a Catalina today, and it certainly worked. It wasn't 100% accurate, but very good; and it would probably be less so if we could slow down the 'rockets', but still deadly enough. The one thing I'd be worried about is reload time - so that there's only one shot, and that's it.

Planes, by the way, do not go into attack runs unless they're armed with bombs or D/C's. Once those are dropped, the planes leave no matter what other weapons they have. But they will shoot all weapons they have while they're on their attack run. Since they fly directly at the sub while on their attack run, they have no problem aiming gun-type weapons properly.

I think it can work, if we can give them the right "gun" for it :hmm:

Actually, I had a very interesting mission a couple of days ago that involved several dozen avengers attacking a Japanese convoy off Guadalcanal. The avengers dropped their payload and several minutes afterwards, about three or four of them came back to shoot up the Japanese cargo ships with their rear turrets. It was exciting but pretty weird - especially since there seemed to be no reason why the game selected only those particular planes to come back. Maybe someone could try to decipher the AI behind strafing attacks...?

[stljeffbb1]

Hi iambecomelife....just curious, what mods do you play? Especially keen to know which mods have Japanese traffic off of Guadalcanal.....has someone put in all of the historic Japanese traffic too? :hmm:

Thanks,

-Jeff

[iambecomelife]

Hi iambecomelife....just curious, what mods do you play? Especially keen to know which mods have Japanese traffic off of Guadalcanal.....has someone put in all of the historic Japanese traffic too? :hmm:

Thanks,

-Jeff

I created a single mission with the MB; it wasn't a campaign mission. I modded the game myself by giving the Japanese larger merchant ships and "Soldati" destroyers. I also gave the U.S. an "Atlanta" class cruiser (another homemade mod) that finished off some of the bomb-crippled ships. This is all a test run for a possible Pacific campaign, if enough people in the community seem interested.

[stljeffbb1]

I would be interested in a Pacific campaign....I've already tinkered just a little bit with that idea....there have been a couple of mystery threads over at the SH3 boards suggesting that SH4 and/or the expansion pack would be a Japanese sim, but who knows? :-j

-Jeff

[Shadow9216]

@ Iambecomelife- I sent you a PM on this subject.

[iambecomelife]

@ Iambecomelife- I sent you a PM on this subject.

Shadow, check your pm please

[sergbuto]

The mod includes Schnellboot and Elco armed with "virtual" torpedoes. The "virtual" torpedoes are invisible 14Inch guns. Unfortunately, I could not get rid of the flash/smoke/traces when guns are firing but it is not really noticable or understandable what is going on.Since it was not pissible to limit the ammo amount, the gun rotation/elevation is greatly limited and the boat can fire only ahead with some 10 dgr spread angle. Furthermore, with time PT boats get heavier AA guns, such as 37-mm and bofors. Elcos will get hedgehogs but I have not seen them using hedgehogs yet. Maybe they can not do it at all and this is to be fixed in next version.

http://usx218.fysik.uu.se/users/Sergei/files/Elco_hh.jpg

I have also enclosed a mission featuring Schnellbott attack on a convoy. The mission is rather for observation than for playing.

Download is available on my site.

[sergbuto]

Forgot to add that Elco also has a pilot now.

[Commander1980]

And again great work with both mods!!! :up: :up:

[sergbuto]

Somehow the driver on Elco has been mis-placed and at the wrong position in the download files. This is corrected now.

[Charlie901]

Somehow the driver on Elco has been mis-placed and at the wrong position in the download files. This is corrected now.



Great! :up:

Is it possible to get the Elco with the driver only and not with the "Virtual Torpedos" to add to my RUB version?

Which file do I have to DL/Install? :hmm:

Thanks.

[sergbuto]

If you do not want "virtual torpedoes" on Elco, replace the following lines in the NPT_Br.eqp file

NodeName=A04
LinkName=PTVirtualTorpedo

with

NodeName=A04
LinkName=NULL

[Marhkimov]

To sergbuto or to anyone else out there who might want to look into this...

I think the next step in modding has to be the A.I.

Since destroyers are already capable of depthcharging/hedgehogging, can PT boats also be made to do so?

The PT boat won't use those hedgehogs because it was never programmed to do so. From my personal experience with Elcos, the only thing that the "Paatrol Craft" A.I. is programmed to do is to locate the enemy, approach the enemy, and circle the enemy.

"Destroyer" and "Escort Destroyer" A.I. are different. They locate the enemy, circle the (surfaced) enemy, and go on attack runs (on the submerged enemy, i.e. *the player*).

Alterring the A.I., which I reason is fully capable in the hands of our talented modders, will make our PT boats more formiddable.



And BTW, has anyone ever tried to make the PT boat a "Destroyer" or an "Escort Destroyer" instead of a "Patrol Craft"? Those who know what I'm talking about probably already know this... I pulled this from the Data\Roster\English file:

;Warships
Type0=Patrol Craft
Type1=Corvette
Type2=Frigate
Type3=Destroyer Escort
Type4=Destroyer
Type5=Minesweeper
Type6=Light Cruiser
Type7=Heavy Cruiser
Type8=Escort Carrier
Type9=Fleet Carrier
Type10=Battlecruiser
Type11=Battleship
Type12=Minelayer
Type13=Auxiliary Cruiser

A PT boat using destroyer A.I. would act exactly as a destroyer would. Of course, the side effect would be that it would also spawn in a convoy... Solution? Make a new or alterred patrol craft A.I.

And perhaps ubi even left the other unused A.I. routines laying around somewhere... Somehow, that wouldn't surprise me... :hmm:

[sergbuto]

Before making PT boat a DD or an escort, try to give it sonar first. I suspect that ability to use hedgehogs and DC racks may be connected with sonar because they need to know the submerged sub position, even approximately. I have not done any testing in this respect though.