Is it possible to mod the weather?

[CWorth]

Just wondering if it is possible to mod the weather in the game?

I am so sick of storms and fog.My last 5 patrols have been nothing but a big storm,heavy rain and seas and fog non stop from the time I leave port to the time I get back to port.Making setting up attacks or even seeing my targets near impossible let alone the AI's uncanny ability to see you through the fog long before you see them.

Is it possible to change the frequency that storms occur or chnage the weather settings in anyway?

[Jungman]

Yes and no. The problem you have may be this, every time you reload a savegame (say you missed that perfect one kill torpedo shot) the weather timer is reset back to zero. :shifty:

This means you must wait for 48 hours in game time for the weather to randomly change states without a reload (and about 8 to 12 hours for the transition time). Even then, randomly it may still stay bad weather. 50%, 25,% , 12.5% etc. good/bad flip.

I had patrols where by bad luck 14 days of storms (1/8 chance).
But most patrols are not that way. Do not reload savegame quickly for missing a torpdeo shot or your weather will remain static forever.

Go at least 48-72 hours in game per play session without reloading a savegame. :cool:

AI does not cheat by vision through fog, it does have radar on its escorts destroyers that can see you through fog.

[CWorth]

Thing is I dont use the save function at all...I play all the way through the mission from beggining to end and the only saves that I have are ones that are automatically created in port before the mission mission and after the mission.

Guess it must have been a string of bad luck with the weather.

I know the AI dont cheat but it sure seems that way when you are stalking a ship in November 1939 in the fog and you cant see them and you get the "We've been spotted" message..LOL.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Somewhere this can be adjusted. I sail on 1x compression only unless making quick mod tests w/ bogus carreer. (I just can't bring myself to use time compression otherwise... eventually I may change my mind... but not today)

It isn't realistic for me to be at my PC for 48 hours etc. I will do some hunting/ fixing/ changing over the next week and if I find anything productive I will post findings

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Oh yeah... there is also a way (which occurs in RUb. 1.43) to double the enemy "fog factor" which halves their effectiveness at detection when in bad weather conditions.


.... sorry I haven't given exact info... I'm just coming off 24 hour shift and need bath/sleep lol. ... will try to follow up much later today if someone doesn't beat me to it.

[Col7777]

I did a small mission to test out some Japanese ships and aircraft, I set the weather using the mission editor for fair weather, but after around 4-5 hours I was in a storm with rain, thunder and lightning.
On other occasions though it has never changed, I think it would be better if it did change more frequently, and as for going back to zero if you save a mission is a bug in my opinion.

[CB..]

does the mission file

WeatherRndInterval=6

have no effect Col?

[Col7777]

Hi CB,

Take a look here:

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=40692

WeatherRndInterval=6

The 6 means how many hours before the weather changes, in the mission editor it says 2 in the minimum. I have set it to 1 in the mission script within the single missions folder, but as yet not noticed any quick changes.

I've not played with it too much YET. :)

[CB..]

oh eck :oops: :up: :arrgh!:

all i can think of at the moment especailly for the campaign weather (which doesn't seem too bad re frequency of changes in V1 of the game)

is some experimentation with the

[Mission]
Title=
MissionType=0
MissionDataType=1
Year=1939
Month=1
Day=1
Hour=12
Minute=0
Fog=0
FogRand=0
Clouds=0
CloudsRand=0
Precip=0
PrecipRand=0
WindHeading=0
WindSpeed=5.000000
WindRand=0
WeatherRndInterval=5
SeaType=0
Briefing=


first reading of that says that the weatherRndinterval overides all the other settings

all these are "switched off"

Fog=0
FogRand=0
Clouds=0
CloudsRand=0
Precip=0
PrecipRand=0
WindHeading=0
WindSpeed=5.000000
WindRand=0

other than windspeed/

temptation would be to set them all to ON like this

Fog=1
FogRand=1
Clouds=1
CloudsRand=1
Precip=1
PrecipRand=1
WindHeading=00
WindSpeed=5.000000
WindRand=1

or possibly

Fog=0
FogRand=1
Clouds=0
CloudsRand=1
Precip=0
PrecipRand=1
WindHeading=0
WindSpeed=5.000000
WindRand=1

the logic of the meaning of the entrys doesn't immediately slap me in the face i must admit ..they appear to be slightly contradictory...

does fog=0 mean NO fog at all?
yet the campaign contains fog of all types..
so in that case what does the fogrand=0 mean?

heres the thought would setting the

WeatherRndInterval=5
to
WeatherRndInterval=0
and "switching on"
all the others have any effect at all?

perhaps deleting the
WeatherRndInterval=5
entry alltogether and going with a full set of
switched on weather options

Fog=1
FogRand=1
Clouds=1
CloudsRand=1
Precip=1
PrecipRand=1
WindHeading=00
WindSpeed=5.000000
WindRand=1

result in more weather changes or none at all?

methinks theyres summat else somewhere that controls the weather and the mission file weather entrys may even be completely ignored..
because they actually don't at first sight seem to add up/

been looking at the star trekian warp hole above the player sub as you said Col....bit scary :hmm:


here's another thought..
taking a look at the naval acadamy convoy attack mission the weather there is set as this

Fog=0
FogRand=0
Clouds=1
CloudsRand=1
Precip=0
PrecipRand=0
WindHeading=95
WindSpeed=2.000000
WindRand=1
WeatherRndInterval=2


perhaps as the campaign missions allway seem to start in clear "default" weather conditions.. the fog fogrand clouds cloudrand etc control the possibilty of randomised weather ON MISSION LOAD and the weather RNDinterval then takes over control of how often the weather changes from there on in.....i wonder if the original weather as it appeared at mission load then becomes the default? i'll try it and see what happens...the problem there is that all three campaign files scr rnd and lnd have weather sections change one change them all lol dunno....

all this probably doesnt egt to the bottom of why the weather sometimes appears to remain the same for many days at a time....it seems to me that it MUST actually be changing- but unfortunately it changing from clear no fog lightwinds from the north calm sea to clear no fog lightwinds from the east calm sea ..ie the list of possible weather types is woe-fully short (or far too long and over compicated..ie looks great on paper doesn't work well in game)
other wise there allways would some noticable difference in the weather at each and every change interval...

so thought number three is..

the weather ALLWAYS changes as per the weatherRndInterval entry
BUT it's list of possible changes is not terribly well thought out...too many extremely similar weather types avalable ..where's that list?
for me i hardly ever see rain....would like to add rain to more of the weather types available (most weather types must have Precip=0 )
dunno where the list is tho must be somewhere..

[Col7777]

Hi CB,

Well as I said I haven't played with it too much, but I also read that if say for example you have been in bad weather for say 6 days.
Then you save your mission, the weather goes back to Zero, so if for example it was due to change on the day you saved, then you will have to wait another 6-7 days for it to change again.
To me that is a bug.
Plus there are only 2 cloud types, I have added more but I don't think the sim reads them as I've never ever seen them unless I alter the names in the Misc folder (Nori00 & Nori01).
I said in another post, if you put the camera directly above yourself, you can see the clouds either generating or degenerating through a hole in the roof so to speak.
I think somewhere in one of those DAT files there is something that controls how many clouds we can have, speed and times etc, something like the moving fronts we had in SH2 only not as good.

I have set the wind=6 but when the weather does eventually change this effects the sea state and it has risen to something like 9+
I've omitted some lines, added higher numbers and most times got clear skies with no cloud as the sim hasn't recognised any of it so it had defaulted.
We may hit on something yet my mate.

[CB..]

yes i just ran a couple of campaign missions with cluds and cloudran set to 1 instead of 0...nothing brainstaggeringly interesting happenned (if anything at all :-j )

best part about the weather system seems to be as you so rightly say the wind speed and direction which actually has a huge impact on the game..ships and the sub travelling into a high wind will really struggle as it whips the waves up against the direction of travel..and keep an eye on your rudder settings if you travel crosswing on a set course...it will be set to port or strarboard in order to correct any drift...and that is very interesting and a wonderfully realistic and satisfying touch...
but other than that the way it just pours out of the warp hole above the sub moving along with you is well..pants..at least as far as the immersion factor goes....much more satisfying for it to follow the same pattern as the really advanced SH2 weather stuff ie the seperate independant and dynamically moving fronts...those you could place in missions and have them move across the map allmost like convoys (even set up radio messages that accurately predict their arrival and passing etc!) fascinating stuff

but with SH3 i'm not sure there's much more that can be made of it as long as it's 100% tied to the player sub position..shame lol as we have got independantly moving iceburgs and even an ENV section for the game !!!

lots of eye candy stuff can be done (and has) but other than finding that list and editing it ..the weather is allways going to be a little bit "Coronation street" when it shuld perhaps be a bit more "Life on earth" if you see what i mean ! no real depth

i'd love to see more rain in fact i had resigned myself to the fact that the rain was broken untill a couple of days ago lol...after 40 or more patrols in the atlantic and med and up around norway etc it finally rained!!
ill check out that folder see if there's any hope of a quick mod

[Anakonda]

started a career in 1939 and this is my third patrol and never saw a storm or rain... always good weather.... and the time is mid January 1940 now.. I am at the north atlantic heading towards grid square AM13... seems a bit strange... :shifty:

[CB..]

started a career in 1939 and this is my third patrol and never saw a storm or rain... always good weather.... and the time is mid January 1940 now.. I am at the north atlantic heading towards grid square AM13... seems a bit strange... :shifty:
yup how-ever tha randomisation works it's doesn't seem to work very entertainingly...which it should especailly during winter in the atlantic !

:hulk:
COL what about the cloudtransition texture is that worth attacking? :arrgh!: i'm useless at transparent textures otherwise id have a go myself but if the cloudtransition texture shows during weather changes then it might add an extra cloud type to the game/

[Col7777]

Hi CB,

I just had a look at the cloud transition file, I have Adobe Photoshop CS, it is a great program but I'll be honest, I haven't a clue what changes to make that might effect the clouds.

I know I can make a back-up and mess around with it but I'm not sure what I'm doing.

[CB..]

my best guess is that the transition texture is like a transparent layer that covers both types of clouds to mask the "join" untill the transition is complete like net curtains or something..no reason why the net curtains couldnt have a pattern on em tho? ...dunno if that helps/

[Col7777]

I think I know what the cloudmask does now, I renamed it so the sim didn't use it, when I loaded a mission the clouds reflected on the water too much that it made it look peculiar.

[FAdmiral]

started a career in 1939 and this is my third patrol and never saw a storm or rain... always good weather.... and the time is mid January 1940 now.. I am at the north atlantic heading towards grid square AM13... seems a bit strange... :shifty:

I also started a career in 9/39 and ran into thunderstorms and
high waves on my way accross to England but went to complete
calm when I got there. The rest of the 1st Patrol was calm too.
My 2nd and 3rd Patrols were very calm and were a joy to hunt
merchants. Then on my 4th Patrol, all H broke loose. Heavy seas
but clear skys truned my patrol into a nightmare. Torps went
screwy and exploded agains waves before hitting. They went
under ships and just missed algether with the buffeting by the
large waves. I was very luncky to get any hits at all. Now on
my 5th Patrol. weather started clam but seems to be turning
worse every day. I save the game about every 24 to 48 hours
cause I am playing in small blocks of real time. (real life time)
I would like to get the weather to change faster either way.
Then I could just wait out the bad weather and patrol in the
good weather. Not realistic, of course, but much more FUN !!!


JIM

[Col7777]

I'm not 100% sure now about the cloudtransition file, I'm still getting the cloud's reflections on the water, may be it was the light or something in my last test.
Any way I messed around with it but didn't notice anything dramatic if anything at all.

[FAdmiral]

If the weather statis is reset to 0 when you do a saved game,
I wonder if the time acceleration also will affect it. I have had
about 5 days of straight thunder, rain and hi-waves with no
saves till my crew was completely worn out. NO CHANGE in the
weather during that time. I have gotten about 3 sound contacts
but can't find them in this rotten weather. No use even trying
again till I get some clear weather. This may be a very long
patrol.....


JIM

[Col7777]

I looked in the EnvSim file using a HEX editor, I saw text in there referring to only 2 cloud types, I have put more than 2 types of cloud in the Misc folder, the clouds are named Nori00.tgs & Nori01.tga, I was hoping with the RND command it might also read other cloud tga's but it didn't.
I was wondering if anyone knows about HEX editing and if there is a way to tell the sim to accept more cloud types - OR - is there a way to randomize the cloud tga's withing the Misc folder?
Going off what I've seen there is only ever going to be 3 types sky conditions; Clear, Partial & Overcast. I know with added Fog or big waves it may look different but with different clouds we could have different conditions.

[Beery]

...Do not reload savegame quickly for missing a torpdeo shot...

I'm sorry? Do players actually do that? :o

[Col7777]

Well that's one way to change the subject. :o

[Jungman]

:rotfl:

[Beery]

I wasn't trying to change the subject. Just a bit bemused, that's all. I mean I've never heard of that outside an FPS game.

[CCIP]

I'm guilty of reloading once when I missed all 5 shots from perfect 300-400m range, but I just got the feeling I'd be relieved of command for that one when I got ashore or something :shifty:

Perhaps you should split this topic to general discussion, Beery?

[andy_311]

Am on my third career in Nov 39 and my first patrol was to Am17 took out a few ship,but when I reached AM17 all I got was rain,heavy seas wind 17 and heavy fog and a large convoy sailing straight for me,took a few out but not all,tracked them all to AM52 but the weather didn't avail. and then lost the convoy.
Patrol 2 Feb 40 ordered to patrol grid AM51 reached the grid and heavy fog rain etc did 24hrs fog,rain still there wind was heading 225 so I sailed WSW towards AM17 got there still fog,rain the lot and yes a convoy comeing for me again. sank 4 ships before I had to reteat,my deck gun,flak gun destroyed attack periscope destroyed hull integrity finished at 44% .
If the weather is random !why did I enter a grid and got a duplicate game I played earlier?.
Even in my second career the war emded as I entered AN26 yes you guessed it in heavy fog.
There must be a way to tweek the weather I have read numerous of post on this topic some never encounter bad weather and some of use encounter the full force of mother nature.
Thank god that Hurricanes arn't modelled in the game.(don't think they are)

[August]

Interesting thread.

Just an observation, but it might help a lot if when people talk about the weather they're experiencing they mention what date or time of year it happened like Andy just did. After all, nasty weather that lasts for days or even weeks on end should be expected during the winter months.

Does anyone know if the game takes the time of the year or the location for that matter, into account when deciding on what weather to display?

[Jungman]

Game does not take time of year in consideration of weather.

Regional area such as North Alantic (Artic) seems to have an extra wind and storm bonus.

You can get weeks of bad weather due to the random walk of the weather engine. logic is change state: Clouds, Fog, Wind, Direction, Rain. It is tied together also in Clear, Partial, Storm States.

You can get 50% the wind and storm stays going. 48 hours later it is checked again, another 50% roll to change, if change, then time passes for transistion.

I had once almost two weeks Storm from Hades in the North Alantic.

Give 2 days timer + 0.5 day transistion; 50% chance to have still bad weather after 4 to 6 days. 25% chance to have same stuff 7 to 9 days. 12.5% chance for still bad weather 8 to 12 days....

Random walk.

[August]

Pity. Thanks for the info though :up:

[Col7777]

I got messing around a little with the weather settings, I just tried a few things to see what would happen. On these settings below I got weather that couldn't make it's mind up, it looked like it was going to rain but it didn't, there was intermittent fog banks and the sun was doing it's best to come out. Every now and again the sun did shine slightly but then an overcast came in and blanked it again, the effects were very good, at least on my PC any way, here are the settings:

[Mission]
Title=
MissionType=0
MissionDataType=0
Year=1941
Month=1
Day=1
Hour=9
Minute=0
Fog=2
FogRand=1
Clouds=3 *** I changed this
CloudsRand=1
Precip=0
PrecipRand=0
WindHeading=45
WindSpeed=7.000500 *** I added a value after the decimal.
WindRand=1
WeatherRndInterval=1 *** I changed this
SeaType=0
Briefing=

The crew were dressed in storm gear yet it never rained, but they looked right in the conditions as though ready for a storm that looked like it was brewing.

[Jungman]

Precip=0
PrecipRand=0


Maybe that is why it never rains?

[Col7777]

Yes I realised that, but it was a great effect seeing the sky dark like that as though any minute it would rain, you could almost feel the cold air.

[Col7777]

Some screenies of the looks like it's going to rain test.

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/7523/lookslikerain3vx.th.jpg (http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lookslikerain3vx.jpg)

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/2897/lookslikerain29lc.th.jpg (http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lookslikerain29lc.jpg)

This next one was snapped about 3 seconds later, the sun disappeared and the sky went grey again.

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/606/lookslikerain33vd.th.jpg (http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lookslikerain33vd.jpg)

[Jungman]

WeatherRndInterval=1 *** I changed this


So does the weather change within after 24 hours, or does it still take two days? It seemed I messed with the random intervals, and nothing major changed.

At least for windspeed. Clouds and fog could very well change faster.

The reason I ask, since sometimes I do not have the time to play at least two to three days to get a weather change before I save my game. Reason being I get caught in the infinite static weather loop. The weather timer is reset (not saved) in a savegame, leading to mostly static weather.

[Col7777]

Hi Jungman,

I have seen it change faster but on other occasions it seems to take a few days as you say, so may be some sort of randomization does take effect.
I set the change to WeatherRndInterval=-1 on one occasion and I got the screen flashing, so obviously these things do upset the way the game reads this stuff.
It's a pity really there are only 2 cloud types and we can't control it better.

[Col7777]

Just out of interest this mission started at 07.00 with overcast thunderstorms, the crew is obviously in oil skins, by 16.40 the sky was clear and the sea like glass, after I submerged then surfaced again the crew were out of the oil skins:

Month=7
Day=1
Hour=7
Minute=0
Fog=2
FogRand=1
Clouds=2
CloudsRand=1
Precip=0
PrecipRand=0
WindHeading=320
WindSpeed=10.000000
WindRand=1
WeatherRndInterval=2
SeaType=0

Weired, sometimes it works other times it stays the same weather for ages.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

S! Col.7777

1) Is "WeatherRndInterval=2" a stable setting that does not produce the flashing screen you described above?

2) It is my understanding that "WeatherRndInterval" determines how many hours pass before the game checks for possibility of changing the weather. [For example: WeatherRndInterval=2 would offer opportunity for changes in weather to occur every two hours at 1x time compression.] Is my understanding correct?

[Col7777]

Kpt Lehmann

I think you are correct in that understanding, that is how I understand it any how. I just keep trying different things to see if by some chance it can be broken or tricked to do something different.
The weather in SH3 is totally different than SH2 or Destroyer Command, we had a way of telling it what to do there.
But going back to your point, I put the =2 to minimize the waiting time for a change of weather, like in my above post it changed in a matter of 5 hours but on other occasions it took days.

[CB..]

hi Col!! been experimenting with the cloud textures a little--im not teribly good at textures so all i have done is increase the contrast for the two textures and fiddle a bit with the brightness to balance out the changes---i had to add a transparancy setting ---thing as you say i have a hard time believe-ing is that there are only two cloud textures for the game---partial and over cast--it's bizaare in such an advanced game---what are the different cloud states as stated by the weather reports?

is it just partail over cast and stormy?

im wondering if the game layers the textures some how to create more variety?

i havent done a good job on the textures but one good thing has shown itself-- the slightly brighter contrast on the textures means that night time brightness is much improved (i can see things now lol!!)

tho what exactly is going on on the horizon i don't know--does the horizon function differently than the main body of the sky?

i wonder if the weather interval works differntly in the campaign than the single missions? there's 3 different files each with weather entrys---it can't read them all surely--maybe theres summat else going on?

[Col7777]

Hi CB,

Yes only 2 cloud types, I asked earlier if anyone knows how to edit those Clut files, there is one called EnvSim, in that it mentions about only having 2 cloud textures, I was wondering if it could be tweaked to accept more.
I've added more textures but the sim won't read them, I sometimes swap them about manually for my own enjoyment, pity they can't be randomized somehow.

[CB..]

:( yikes even retro games frequently have more than two cloud textures --it maybe tho i dont think so--that perhaps different parts of the large coud texture files are used at different times--(tho i haven't noticed this at all) keep an eye open just in case--if this was the case you could then paint different cloud types onto the same two textures (similar to the texture co-ordinates for ships etc used by SH2)

i dont hold out much hope for that one but here's another angle that might add at least some addditional variety if not to the weather directly -then at least to the sky and sea colouring--

take a brief glance at the SeaInf.bmp in Data/env

most of the world's seas are coloured black except for the MED which is dark grey and the northern areas which are light grey--

now we know that there are three different sea and sky colour sets for the med ,atlantic and artic--how would it be if the game used this bmp file some how to tell the game when and where to change colouring --if it does well it can be fooled into making many many more changes--

simply by painting a chessboard of the three available colours all over the sea areas---black/dark grey/light grey---

if that worked then you would have constantly changing sea and sky colouring to augment the lack lustre weather changes--?

[davest]

What's needed is active real world weather engine like FS2004


Cheers