View Full Version : Quick question RuB1.43/deck guns
After moving to RuB, the reload time on deck gun has slowed to a crawl. Each shell takes about 2 minutes to reload. Is this by design? At this rate, it'll take me literally hours (of real time) to just complete the academy artillery exam :damn: Maybe the crew is too green?
Is there a cfg I can modify to go back to older reloading settings, fast and efficient? Besides that, so far, everything works just great.
Thanks!!
K.
Damo1977
08-11-05, 09:08 PM
Go here
http://u-boot.realsimulation.com/
sh3downloads
sh3mods (general section)
than scroll down and look for the deckgunreloadtimes(1.4ready).zip
that mod gives u a few choices of reload times.
MonkeyHero
08-11-05, 10:36 PM
I just went in before installing RUb and completed the first 2 training excercises with excellent scores. Just those are enough to get you the max 1500 starting renown in a career. After that install RUb and you're on your merry way.
I've completed the gunnery course easily with the 1 minute reload times in RUb 1.43. If time is an issue, just do it at 8 or 16x time compress and you get about the same rate of fire as the standard game.The reload times are one minute because real average combat reload times were between a minute and a minute and a half.
Thanks all :up:
It actually took them more than one minute in real life to reload the deck gun?? I guess I'm picturing in my mind those artillerists reloading antitank or big battery guns in just a few seconds, that we all see in movies, or real footage films. But they do it fast on land, maybe on water it's far more difficult. They probably had to haul the shells from below, every time they had to reload. Hence the delay. Just guessing here :hmm:
Thanks again.
K.
They probably had to haul the shells from below, every time they had to reload. Hence the delay. Just guessing here :hmm:
Thanks again.
K.
That's exactly right! :up:
RUb is not perfect in the sense that the first 20 rounds, which would be on deck, would be fired very quickly - but then after, the time might slip to even as low as 80 seconds, due to having to haul the rounds from below (and the fact that the number of men on deck and in the tower always had to be kept to a minimum to be able to dive quickly in case of emergency).
Kpt. Lehmann
08-12-05, 02:24 PM
CCIP, I'm glad you brought up the "ready rounds" issue.
Deck gun reload times for the 88mm gun are otherwise (IMHO) way way slow even for a tired crew. I actually have several (seven) years experience as an Artilleryman (cannon and later MLRS gunner) in the US Army. I have had the pleasure of examining the 88mm field/flak/ati-tank gun first hand at the Ft. Sill Oklahoma Field Artillery Museum. Its breech is very similar to the 105mm M102 howitzer I was trained on... They were built for speed.
At sea on a U-Boat w/no radar assisted guns, indirect fire is impossible. Accurate indirect fire would require fixed/known points in space. Ergo, U-Boat 88's (and 105's I believe) would be confined to a direct fire role. With a fresh crew on a clear day, more than once I was able to physically see three of our projectiles in space before the first round impacted with target. (1-2 miles distant usually for direct fire.) Direct fire relieves the crew of mathematical solutions etc. Using indirect fire we were still able to fire the 105 at least twice per minute. I'm not sure about the 88, but our 105's were one part shell containing increments of powder (little burlap bags) and one part projectile. The shell and projectile were loaded separately. For direct fire, no measurement of powder was required... you simply used all that the shell was unpacked with from its tube.... no-thinking = very fast rate of fire. You just fire and adjust. Fuse settings for direct fire were "Point Detonation" (impact) and "delay" (penetration) w/ no real difference in rate of fire.
The only things that held us up was a range control order that we could have no more than three rounds "fused-up" during fire missions. Furthermore, there was no need to depress the barrel for reloading as there is with the 155mm and 8 inch guns. (I was trained extensively on all three.) I'm sorry to babble so, but wanted quantify my reason for saying that the 88mm (and the 105 to an extent) was a rapid fire gun. (somewhere on VHS I have film of a u-boat crew firing an 88 and they were WICKED fast... und I don't think zee film was sped up) I found the files to fix the reload times and have set mine for 30 seconds. I think that is a good compromise accounting for weather, and aiming from rolling deck. I may reduce it to 20 if I find that VHS footage again.
I shared this with Beery some time ago and have chosen to go with the 30 second reload as a compromise that includes "ready rounds"
Three other matters that contribute to my reasoning.
1. If the deck gun is in operation, there are most likely crewmen who have little to do inside the sub and would naturally be part of a human conveyor belt removing waterproofing (airtight tubes w/ rubber gaskets containing shells I believe... similar to what we used for our propellant charge) and handing off projectiles to the next man.
2. Any extraneous ready rounds can still be stowed or ditched as necessary during emergency situations. Waterproofing may be re-useable.
3. The Flak 88 and the Naval 88 are quite different weapons even to the point that the ammunition is not cross-compatible. I just don't know enough about the operation of the naval 88.
I do not mean to offend anyone's sense of what may be realistic. It will naturally remain a point of debate. Reload and firing times are highly situational.
I encourage everyone to make their own decisions. The question you must ask yourself is "Am I being reasonable in my quest for the happy medium between simulation and enjoyment?"
Deck gun reload times are an alterable item. ;)
I'm just glad we have a choice thanks to the modders!
Kpt. Lehmann - very interesting post!
I'm a new user of RUb1.43 and I'm agree with you. I think that 1 minute for reload is too long. I changed it to 10 sec, I think it is more realistic than 4 sec and 1 minute. As you said 88' deck cannon is a rapid fire weapon.
In my opinion power of shell is too reduced. I've just sunk C2 merchant with over 30 shells (very close to ship, target at waterline).
1. If the deck gun is in operation, there are most likely crewmen who have little to do inside the sub and would naturally be part of a human conveyor belt removing waterproofing (airtight tubes w/ rubber gaskets containing shells I believe... similar to what we used for our propellant charge) and handing off projectiles to the next man.
Strict limits were imposed restricting the number of crewmen on deck at any time due to the threat of aircraft attack. It was suicidal to place more than a few men on deck at any time, and even more so when the deck gun was in use, since they were probably firing on a ship that had radioed the position of the attacking U-boat to anyone who would listen. For these reasons you simply could not have a human chain on deck for conveying shells to the gun.
I do not mean to offend anyone's sense of what may be realistic. It will naturally remain a point of debate. Reload and firing times are highly situational.
But the numbers aren't debatable. There are timed examples of 'in combat' gunnery, and all of them that I've seen show definitive average reload times of over 1 minute per shell. In the end, it doesn't matter what the specifics of reloading a gun are, because we have actual details of times and ammo expended: we have the time spent firing and the number of shells expended, and this gives us an unambiguous figure that is not hampered by the vagueries imposed by guessing how long it would take to get a shell to the gun. We know for a fact that if a crew attacked a ship with the deck gun in a protracted engagement, it took over a minute on average to load each shell expended.
I have asked on numerous occasions to see if people can disprove the 60 second reload time I have used (which, by the way is 10 to 20 seconds faster than the real life figures show). All anyone needs to do is show me an example of a U-boat firing 40 rounds or more at a rate of less than 1 shell per minute, and I will consider that seriously. No one has yet done that. Perhaps no one has tried, but in any event, there is nothing that I've seen to suggest that a deck gun could engage in protracted gunnery with a reload rate of less than a minute when averaged out over the length of the shoot. What I have seen are examples that show guns in action that required a minute or more per round expended.
Again, my figures aren't based on 'best guesses' about people running shells up to the deck, or how many men you could put in a human chain, or how fast you could reload based on the breech design of an 88 or 105mm gun. You don't need to guess based on those things. You get a much better estimate when you use actual documented combat reload rates (as I have done) which show start and end times for the shoot, and how many rounds were expended. You don't need to get into greater detail when you have such clear and fundamental info.
Kpt. Lehmann
08-12-05, 06:09 PM
Thank you for all your help so far Beery.
I only have my artillery experience to draw on which is not naval warfare oriented. I have made no secret as to my lack of knowledge regarding U-boat warfare.
Hey! I'm still learning... and still fascinated with everything U-Boat!
I have no doubt that the time you have spent researching and collecting all that is in RUb, is prodigious. I am also sure that your reference collection is enviable. Heck I wish I could spend a few hours (days) getting to see what you see.
I'm sure I chose the wrong word(s) as I sometimes do... for that I apologize. Apart from our own conversation I did not observe other "numerous occasions" where this had been discussed.
My most basic point though is that if there is something you don't like... With a little work you can change it to what suits you. Even with RUb you don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
However, we also have the freedom to choose how we deal with each other.
It is easy to rebuke. It is easy to pour cold water on someone who may otherwise have intentions of becoming a producing contributor to our little community. It is easy to forget that there are varying levels of ability and desire.
Damo1977
08-12-05, 06:24 PM
I am going to give my 2cents.......... to this deck gun debate. I have mine at 4secs, just because I can. But now I hardly ever use it........in this career I have used it once on my mighty warship tonnage of 35t. I like hearing the thunderous sound of a eel exploding better that the thud of the deckgun. Thats all I am going to say.
Take care all
I'm sure I chose the wrong word(s) as I sometimes do... for that I apologize. Apart from our own conversation I did not observe other "numerous occasions" where this had been discussed.
My most basic point though is that if there is something you don't like... With a little work you can change it to what suits you. Even with RUb you don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
However, we also have the freedom to choose how we deal with each other.
It is easy to rebuke. It is easy to pour cold water on someone who may otherwise have intentions of becoming a producing contributor to our little community. It is easy to forget that there are varying levels of ability and desire.
Ahoy, Kpt.Lehmann,
Beery himself said he changed the default rate of fire on the basis of "meagre historical sources" (see here (http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=37230&start=22)). Read the entire thread where the development of this mod was discussed (starting here (http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=37230&start=0)) and judge for yourself how well Beery's own sources back up his claim that
"We know for a fact that if a crew attacked a ship with the deck gun in a protracted engagement, it took over a minute on average to load each shell expended."
There is a download available at http://u-boot.realsimulation.com from which you can choose among several rates of fire should you not find RUb acceptable. See Damo1977's post (above) for good directions to it.
Personally, I go with Sailor Steve's real life experience (see here (http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=37230&start=18) in the mod development thread) and cut the rate of fire by about half to about one round every 10 seconds.
Pablo
jasonb885
08-12-05, 08:58 PM
And I went with the default values and kept the weakened shell damage values. You can only sink about two ships a patrol with the 88.
:up:
I have had the pleasure of examining the 88mm field/flak/ati-tank gun first hand at the Ft. Sill Oklahoma Field Artillery Museum. Its breech is very similar to the 105mm M102 howitzer I was trained on... They were built for speed.
The 88mm gun on U-boats was the same caliber, but based on a German WWI naval gun instead of the more famous "88" you examined at Ft. Sill (as you pointed out later in your post). That being said, the U-boat gun was also "quick-firing" and capable of a maximum rate of fire of about 15 to 18 rounds per minute.
Ergo, U-Boat 88's (and 105's I believe) would be confined to a direct fire role.
Correct. According to the U-boat Commander's Handbook (you can buy it from Amazon.com), the recommended range for a gunnery engagement was about 600 to 800 yards, at night, in conditions where the target couldn't shoot back.
I'm not sure about the 88, but our 105's were one part shell containing increments of powder (little burlap bags) and one part projectile. The shell and projectile were loaded separately.
In U-boats, the 88mm round was one piece.
If the deck gun is in operation, there are most likely crewmen who have little to do inside the sub and would naturally be part of a human conveyor belt removing waterproofing (airtight tubes w/ rubber gaskets containing shells I believe... similar to what we used for our propellant charge) and handing off projectiles to the next man.
You actually needed about five people to man and service the deck gun at full rate of fire: the gunner, loader, and gun-layer at the gun itself, and two folks carrying ammunition to the gun, either with ready rounds from the small (20 round) ammunition locker on deck near the gun, or from the "human conveyor belt" passing ammunition from within the submarine to the conning tower. On at least some submarines there was a chute that was used to pass ammunition from the conning tower down to the ammunition carriers on deck.
If you're still learning and exploring, I suggest you look up the following references (for a start).
- Williamson, Gordon. Wolf Pack. Oxford, UK: Osprey Publishing. 2005
- Blair, Clay. Hitler's U-boat War. Two volumes: The Hunters, 1939 - 1942 and The Hunted, 1943 - 1945. Naval Institute Press: 2001.
- http://uboat.net/
- http://www.uboatarchive.net/
- If you're anywhere near Chicago, check out the U-505 exhibit at the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry (http://www.msichicago.org/exhibit/U505/
"Dr. Google" can be pretty helpful in finding various web-based resources; Amazon.com has a large selection of u-boat related materials as well.
Pablo
It is easy to rebuke. It is easy to pour cold water on someone who may otherwise have intentions of becoming a producing contributor to our little community. It is easy to forget that there are varying levels of ability and desire.
I'm sorry I offended you. I wasn't trying to rebuke. I was merely explaining how I arrived at the 1 minute reload time and how it's based on actual combat reload times, because many people seem to think it was something I just pulled out of thin air. I was also (once more) putting out there the challenge to the community to prove me wrong - I wasn't, as someone has suggested - being 'bombastic'. Heck, I want someone to show me I'm wrong on this.
If deck guns reloaded faster I want to know about it, because I'm not on an ego trip (as some other folks here seem to think). I'm on a mission to make this game as realistic as possible, and sometimes I'll get stuff wrong, and I need to know about it when I do. The problem is that a lot of people just have a desire (based purely on their idea of what's fun) to have deck guns reload at a faster rate, and that's fine, but in terms of the Real U-boat mod desire and unsubstantiated belief are no substitute for hard research.
No-one doubts your sincerity Beery old chap, but from a distance the 60 second reload debate appears to have whiff of 'pet project' about it. Happens to the best of us though. ;)
E.g, I'm not convinced by the statement that the human conveyer belt was not used because of threat of air attack. This appears to be your main defense for the 60 second reload time.
First as you know the threat of air attack from 39-41 was minimal. This was also the period when deck guns were in use, from 41 onwards (if I recall) they began to be removed from boats. Second I don't think a conveyer belt of say 5 men would be that catastrophic if the plane was detected in time. (If it were detected realistically, as in Ortega's view distance mod.) And further, as stated in previous posts these conveyer belt ideas were in fact used, and even automated to the point where they used chutes from the conning tower to the deck.
Of course, this is also an attempt to compensate for the weakness of SH3 at simulating crew taking time to go below deck, set up/secure the gun, and perhaps most importantly, simulate the pitch/roll of the deck gun. So perhaps more effort should go into these areas and leave the deck gun reload as per Sailor Steve's real life experience. And you also weakened the strength of the deck gun shells if I recall?
Anyway wisha, just my little sideline contribution...
Kpt. Lehmann
08-13-05, 06:30 AM
alas.... Where's Jurgen Oesten and Erich Topp when ya need 'em.
Heck, I want someone to show me I'm wrong on this.
If deck guns reloaded faster I want to know about it, because I'm not on an ego trip (as some other folks here seem to think). I'm on a mission to make this game as realistic as possible, and sometimes I'll get stuff wrong, and I need to know about it when I do. The problem is that a lot of people just have a desire (based purely on their idea of what's fun) to have deck guns reload at a faster rate, and that's fine, but in terms of the Real U-boat mod desire and unsubstantiated belief are no substitute for hard research.
Fair enough. Please consider the following from U-boat War Patrol: The Hidden Photographic Diary of U-564, pp. 156-157.
Situation: U-564 is a Type VIIC U-boat on patrol in August, 1942, under command of Kapitaenleutnant Reinhard "Teddy" Suhren. She has torpoedoed the tanker Vardaas but is now out of torpedoes. The tanker's crew has abandoned ship.
"Within the hull, the ammunition was broken out of its store beneath the decking next to the commander's cabin, unloaded from each individual metal container and passed laboriously by hand through the conning tower hatch and out to the waiting gun crew. As each round slid down the small chute that folded down from the conning tower's front, it was taken and held in readiness for use by the two loaders on hand for the task.
Over the next twenty five minutes, fifty shells streaked across the narrow gap that seperated the two vessels, thirty five of them impacting on the Vardaas....
I think you can safely reset the reload time to 30 seconds. You may also want to consider the following from Williamson's Wolfpack:
In effect, the gun would be difficult to aim successfully in anything other than calm seas. In rough seas, the crew could strap themselves into position. Quite apart from being a poor gun platform, the narrow slippery deck of a U-boat was not a safe place to be in rough seas and gun crews would always be in danger of being washed overboard.
I'm pretty sure SH3 doesn't take a lot of critical factors into account, but is there any chance of further restricting the weather conditions under which the U-boat can fire its main gun, or does changing that variable mess up other things like manning AA guns and such?
Pablo
cunnutazzo
08-13-05, 07:00 AM
just my 1 cent:
could be a good idea to make a kind of "RUB configurator", its purpose should be to permit to every user to tweak SH3. The default values should remain the original RUB. In this way we don't need to apply too many mods and we can easily modify all the parameters. I like RUB because it adds a lot of challenging particulars, but there are a lot of people here that avoid RUB because it is too much hard.
Or someone can make a "general configurator" RUB independent, that works with a SHIII modded or unmodded version.
If this kind of configurator is existing, please tell me where I can download it. :/\x:
"Within the hull, the ammunition was broken out of its store beneath the decking next to the commander's cabin, unloaded from each individual metal container and passed laboriously by hand through the conning tower hatch and out to the waiting gun crew. As each round slid down the small chute that folded down from the conning tower's front, it was taken and held in readiness for use by the two loaders on hand for the task.
Over the next twenty five minutes, fifty shells streaked across the narrow gap that seperated the two vessels..
I think you can safely reset the reload time to 30 seconds.
I don't think so. That's 50 shells, 30 of which were passed up to the deck, and 20 of which were 'ready ammo', kept in a waterproof box right by the gun. So if we assume the first 20 rounds were fired at about 6 seconds per shell, that's about two minutes for those first 20 shells. The other 30 would have been fired in 23 minutes at a rate of one shell in just under a minute. I don't see how you can figure that the average rate should be 30 seconds when this boat's average rate of fire (if it had expended all its ammo) would have been just less than 1 shell per minute. Plus, your quote doesn't seem to take into account how long it took to make the gun ready for action (de-waterproofing, etc.). If anything, this example supports MY reload rate much more than it does yours because the first 20 rounds skews the numbers. SH3 can't simulate two separate rates of fire, so I think that an average based on the ENTIRE ammo supply is the only fair way to simulate it with any accuracy given that restriction.
You may also want to consider the following from Williamson's Wolfpack:
In effect, the gun would be difficult to aim successfully in anything other than calm seas. In rough seas, the crew could strap themselves into position. Quite apart from being a poor gun platform, the narrow slippery deck of a U-boat was not a safe place to be in rough seas and gun crews would always be in danger of being washed overboard.
I'm pretty sure SH3 doesn't take a lot of critical factors into account, but is there any chance of further restricting the weather conditions under which the U-boat can fire its main gun, or does changing that variable mess up other things like manning AA guns and such?
We can certainly change the weather conditions in which the gun can be fired. In fact RUb 1.43 does this.
cunnutazzo
08-13-05, 07:41 AM
I think that SH3 can simulate the different rates of fire, like SH3 can simulate the different reloading torpedo times, it do this through the crew's endurance. So we can assume that 10 seconds is a good time for a fresh and relaxed crew and 1 minute or more, for a stressed crew. So, let the gun's crew tiring faster than before (after about 20 rounds) and you will be perfect! :ping:
I think that SH3 can simulate the different rates of fire, like SH3 can simulate the different reloading torpedo times, it do this through the crew's endurance. So we can assume that 10 seconds is a good time for a fresh and relaxed crew and 1 minute or more, for a stressed crew. So, let the gun's crew tiring faster than before (after about 20 rounds) and you will be perfect! :ping:
It can't be done that way, because you could just change out the crew to keep the gun firing fast, which wouldn't simulate two rates of fire. Also, if I really upped the gunner position's fatigue gain rate to the levels required for this to work, it would overtire the gun crew within a couple of minutes, leaving them fatigued for the rest of the patrol. Anyway, if you get a qualified crew, a qualified crew is unaffected by fatigue, so they would be able to fire the gun at a high rate for the entire ammo supply, which would again be unrealistic.
"RUb configurator" would be very good idea. I'd like to choose myself what to install or not (gun reload time for instance). Beery or someone could do it for all players.
May be in next release of RUb?
Hi!
I think we've found the source of the problem.
So if we assume the first 20 rounds were fired at about 6 seconds per shell, that's about two minutes for those first 20 shells. The other 30 would have been fired in 23 minutes at a rate of one shell in just under a minute. I don't see how you can figure that the average rate should be 30 seconds when this boat's average rate of fire (if it had expended all its ammo) would have been just less than 1 shell per minute.
Plus, your quote doesn't seem to take into account how long it took to make the gun ready for action (de-waterproofing, etc.). If anything, this example supports MY reload rate much more than it does yours because the first 20 rounds skews the numbers.
This was a 25 minute end-to-end engagement, with target ship sunk and 50 rounds expended. Total effective rate of fire, whatever the crew did or didn't do, is one round every 30 seconds.
You now have real data that the actual firing rate, including all aggravating and mitigating factors, is less than one round per minute, and could be quite justifiably set to one round every 30 seconds. What you do with that hard data is up to you.
Personally, I'll probably up the reload time I use when I play from 10 seconds to 30 seconds.
Pablo
rulle34
08-13-05, 09:23 AM
"RUb configurator" would be very good idea. I'd like to choose myself what to install or not (gun reload time for instance). Beery or someone could do it for all players.
May be in next release of RUb?
I can for sure understand Beery if he will not. There will always be many different wishes and changes. I think Beery's "read me" is very proffesional. You can see there exactly what files are changed for all these mods. Then its easy to replace or change the file(mod) you dont like. If you want to!
The backside of doing a very popular mod is that all want different changes to suit their likes. I think CCIP have made a mod that will give you an option to choose between differnt reloadtimes.
If you want the same as stockgame you can do like this:
Change "data\Library\GUNS_SUB.sim" to the same for a clean install of SH 3 1.4b and you will have the same reloadtime as for the stock game. You will not have the same "punch" in the gun, because that is changed in "data\Library\Shells.zon" And if you replace that one, there are other changes in Rub that will be lost.
I hope Im right in this.. :huh:
Good luck :)
The backside of doing a very popular mod is that all want different changes to suit their likes. I think CCIP have made a mod that will give you an option to choose between differnt reloadtimes.
Exactly. This has been discussed plenty of times in the past, and options exist, and there's a mod for those who don't like the figures I've used. But some folks just want their preferences to be accepted and used by RUb. That won't happen without compelling evidence.
The problem is that in order to effect meaningful change to RUb, we require a weight of evidence to overcome the evidence we already have gathered, and the 30 second reload time that Pablo wants is only valid if you base the reload rate on the first 40-50 shells. As soon as you use more shells than that, the 30 second thing falls apart. Pablo can ridicule me all he likes, but it won't change the fact that his reload rate only applies if we're considering an artillery experiment of 40 to 50 rounds fired. RUb has to consider the entire ammo supply, and not just the first 50 rounds, because the game won't allow variations in reload rate.
In short, Pablo's reload rate is only good for 25% of the shells fired (the first 50 rounds - it is seriously in error for the final 75%). RUb's is good for 90% of the shells fired (the last 90% - it is only seriously in error for the first 20 rounds). If Pablo wants to use his preferred rate of fire, good luck to him, but using ad hominem attacks to support his 25% theory simply isn't going to work. That sort of argument might work in the schoolyard and on some of the nastier TV political shows, but it won't work here.
It seems clear to me that Pablo doesn't even use RUb - perhaps he never has. Yet he feels it's necessary to criticize it, and while doing so he throws around phrases describing me as full of "sneering, condescension, and bombast", and telling me to "re-read the quote and understand history rather than trying to parse details out of it that don't exist" - and this guy thinks I'm sneering, condescending and bombastic? I guess this is one of those cases where "it takes one to know one", LOL.
Methinks we've found ourselves a troll.
Just a note in case people wonder what happened to their posts:
This thread is not going to become one filled with name-calling. Characterizing people as 'stupid' will not be tolerated on this forum, and such posts will be deleted. Messages with ad-hominem attacks in them will be edited to remove such comments. If such activity persists, the thread will be closed.
Let me be absolutely clear: this thread is about RUb 1.43 deck guns. It is not about how stupid anyone thinks anyone else is. If anyone wants to talk about the intelligence (or lack of it) of forum members, I'm sure there is a forum for that somewhere.
cunnutazzo
08-13-05, 10:36 AM
If you want the same as stockgame you can do like this:...
If I want the stockgame I avoid to install RUB at all, it's easier. But RUB is a "real" nice mod and people like or need to make some tweaking. Anyway, I think possible a configurator indipendently from RUB.
Sorry folks, but I'm locking this thread. Posts (which I deleted) were becoming way off topic and personal and I think things are getting a bit out of hand. I think all the info necessary is already contained in the thread.
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