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View Full Version : CCIP's official RUb 1.43 survival tips!


CCIP
08-07-05, 01:18 PM
Alright, with RUb1.43’s release now imminent, I figured I’d help the players along by providing some general tips on how the newly-revised (by yours truly) survivability system will work and what some of its’ nuisances may be. RUb Kaleuns, take notes!

In general, I think you will find RUb 1.43 much more survivable through the war than any previous SHIII version, albeit with some quirks. The bottom line is that it will reward cautious, realistic play. It's rather forgiving when you 'behave' and act rationally. However, things can and will get ruthless as soon as you make an error or take an unreasonable risk.

*********

Damage and Repair
As compared to earlier RUb versions, especially 1.42, the sub will generally be somewhat stronger and less prone to quick destruction. However, repair times and chances of damage to individual systems have been increased across the board.

There is a good chance of flooding, and even better chance of damage or destruction of important systems aboard. This means that you will often have to learn to prioritize your repairs, especially when crucial parts are temporarily knocked out by damage.
Your priorities when under attack should be:
1) Flooding – get it under control immediately, at all costs, or boat will sink.
2) Propulsion – while the electric engines/compressor are the obvious part, you should also keep a careful eye on your batteries. Damage may knock them offline, and if you don’t repair them, you risk losing your power. Losing power = nice static target for the escorts to kill.
Also watch other key control parts, like pumps, rudders and dive planes. These may knock your boat out of control.
(don't shrug this off as too obvious - it's very likely to happen when you take serious damage, and with batteries and engines spread throughout the boat, some part is bound to get damaged)
3) Sensors – the hydrophones, especially, are prone to damage and also key to survival underwater.
4) Compartmental damage – just generic damage to compartments. Damage to them decreases efficiency, but you should always fix crucial compartments first.

REMEMBER – repairs are noisy, and may now take longer than you’d like. That’s why you always prioritize and repair what’s important first. Fixing that diesel engine or bunk space isn’t worth it when you’re trying to escape a depth charge attacks. Keep silent as much as you can. That other stuff can wait until you’re safe.

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Aircraft
Aircraft are still your most dangerous enemy with AirPower. Their weapons, bombs and depth-charges, are the most significant threat to a U-boat since they’re the most accurate and fast of all.

Rule 1: AUTO-DIVES SAVE LIVES!
1943? Set your auto-response to ‘periscope depth’, and as soon as you make contact – follow it with a crash dive order. The key is to be as far away from where you originally submerged as possible. It seems to work at least 9 times out of 10.

Rule 2: Evade!
Can’t dive? Too late to dive? Learn to evade!
This is pretty similar to missile evasion in modern planes. Place the attacking aircraft as close as possible to your 3-9 line (that is, so he’s coming at you straight from the side as opposed to front/back) and maneuver at maximum speed with hard turns. Learn to estimate so that just as the plane is about to start its’ final diving attack run, you suddenly turn in the opposite direction. When done right, this causes them to miss at least 9 times out of 10.

DO NOT TRY TO SHOOT PLANES DOWN. It’s stupid. Use fire to keep them off, but don’t expect much success, even if you’re well-armed. A well-armored plane can make dozens of passes at you before you shoot it down, and that’s where probability may start working against you. And then of course, when it’s out of bombs, the plane will just leave and call in support.
Shooting down the bigger planes should be the last thing on your mind if you’d like to live (but maybe not if you want to have some cheap thrills). The best advice when caught on the surface is – maneuver, evade first attack, then crash-dive immediately before he comes back for a second pass.

**********

Surface ships

My biggest warning here:
Do not, under any circumstances, risk getting hit by surface guns! Your sub is not a tank. It is not made to withstand AP shells, it does not have any buoyancy reserve and, really, one full puncture through both of the boat’s pressure hulls (or just the single hull in the Type II) is enough to effectively spell doom. RUb is even somewhat forgiving here, as you will usually survive a few hits, and most definitely survive a single one without any massive consequences.
Do not let the seemingly light compartment damage fool you! You don’t have a hull integrity meter in RUb, but I can give you an estimate of how much hull integrity you will lose per one direct surface gun hit: it’s anywhere between 8-32%, with most hits from (larger) DD guns usually causing somewhere around 22-25% damage. (And I won’t even mention larger cruisers and BB’s, you can picture yourself what one would do to a U-boat…)
Bottom line: as soon as you get fired on, dive. Don’t even risk it. It is not worth it at all. Otherwise you will simply be killed, and sooner rather than later.

Depth charges:
These are not as huge as threat as they were in previous versions of RUb, at least at longer distances. However, close hits can be devastating, so don’t loosen your guard.
Also, some components like periscopes, hydrophone and other external systems are rather sensitive to the explosions.

Hedgehogs:
These are now deadlier on the whole. Historically, even one might just be enough. RUb is, again, somewhat forgiving, as you will often have ‘one hedgehog of grace’. Two hits are usually fatal – even if not immediately. They are a huge drain on hull integrity and are likely to cause your boat to be crushed even if you might survive 2-3 of the hits themselves.

ALSO:

Single surface ships are not a real problem. These you will usually evade with ease. But with 2, 3, or (let's hope not) more - your chances slim down exponentially! The AI does a good job of combining their sensor abilities, and this can make all the difference.

******
So, there you have it.

And oh, on the long-suffered subject of late-war ‘uber-sonar’ – there have been changes to it. It should be much better than early-war types, but much less effective than it was in previous versions. I would definitely like to have feedback on how this works out in actual late-war play.

And oh, I most definitely would like feedback on all aspects of survivability in RUb 1.43 in general to help me improve it if needed!

jeronimoh
08-07-05, 02:23 PM
Looking forward to test those survival tips in practise :D

Gairith
08-07-05, 02:24 PM
Thanks for the tips CCIP! :up:

Bill Nichols
08-07-05, 02:52 PM
Having just died in Scapa Flow during my first career (patrol 4) :( , I'm ready for these tips!

Salvadoreno
08-07-05, 03:10 PM
depth charges not that strong anymore? Is this historically accuratE?

CCIP
08-07-05, 03:14 PM
depth charges not that strong anymore? Is this historically accuratE?

I think you misread what I meant a little bit. The depth charges themselves are actually slightly stronger than in previous versions of RUb, however their effects on the boat at longer distances are somewhat less noticable. Mainly because the boat itself (or rather its' bulk compartmental HP) got a little stronger.
They also have a greater margin of depth error than default SHIII.

They are still devastating in close hits, possibly more so than before thanks to increased chances of systems damage. Not so much immideately fatal, as just more prone to knocking out your boat's systems. DC damage will now generally take a bit longer to repair, also. Your chances of living through attacks are much better overall though.

As far as historical accuracy -
I had read of tests which indicated that depth charges exploding further than something like 3-4 m from the hull failed to cause anything but minor damage to it, structurally (but that doesn't mean they did not have the ability to badly shake up the boat and cause internal damage).

In terms of play... well, to go along with realistic survivability rates, DC's aren't really a significant threat unless you make serious mistake or just get unlucky. Dodging DC's is much more a game of brains than a game of chance now, because the chances aren't stacked against you as much. :)

baxter
08-07-05, 04:22 PM
Thanks for the tips!

Nopileo
08-07-05, 04:36 PM
I loved most of RUb but stopped using it because of the annoyingly long reload time of the deck gun. But now that I've declared myself a 'XXI-only' kaleun I'll go back to it. That mod is simply too good to let go...

Thanks for all your hard work with this! :up:

CCIP
08-07-05, 04:56 PM
well, you do know about my Reload Time Selection mod? :D

Nopileo
08-07-05, 05:11 PM
well, you do know about my Reload Time Selection mod? :D

You're pulling my leg, right? :o

joea
08-07-05, 05:16 PM
Nope you can choose what time you want from the default 4 seconds until one minute like in RUB.

Nopileo
08-07-05, 05:28 PM
Ok I did a search and found it instantly. Very much appreciated. Thanks! :up:

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=39760&highlight=reload+selection+mod

I have to visit the mods forum more often... :roll:

Damo1977
08-07-05, 06:11 PM
Hey is rub1.43 going to include a better collison thingy? You know like if uboot runs into ship or vice versa it pretty much is Kaput!!

pampanito
08-07-05, 06:12 PM
I really can do with some evading tactics versus aircraft!

My brand-new Type IX has been ordered twice to the Western Atlantic, both patrols have ended almost exactly in the same way!

Patrol 21, grid DC, June 42. From the moment I reach patrol area, constant attacks by aircraft (even P-38s!!). Crash-dived four times successfully using the 'port 90 degrees' tactic. The fifth time, out of nowhere comes a Catalina in full daylight, demolishing the conning tower complete with periscopes and flak guns. No bridge to climb into, so Watch Officer confined below for the entire return trip! Surprisingly, hull integrity almost 100% so little time repairing.

Patrol 22, grid ED, August 42. In view of the previous fiasco, I plan to remain submerged in the patrol area and surface only at night. But no time to test my tactics. Just a few miles short of my patrol area, at 08:30 but still fully dark, a Catalina again caughts me, this time with dramatic results. Entire bridge crew including WO instantly killed, again no tower, no flak guns, no periscope. One diesel out and massive flooding which is stopped with difficulty (thanks heaven for crewmen with repairs qualification!). I am so shocked by this disaster that as soon as I clear the attack area, I use the ESC key to prematurely end the patrol (I know, I know, this is cheating... but losing a thrice-qualified WO and 3 other men in a blank patrol and spending three months under repair -hull integrity 45%- is enough punishment this time).

Worse thing is that I really don't know what should have I done different in the circumstances... you can't go submerged all time in 1942!

BTW, I'm using RealUboat, SH3 Cdr 1.43 and Less_air_patrols for 1.4 (this evidently reduces aircraft range, but not the frequency of the attacks!)

Damo1977
08-07-05, 06:15 PM
I read somewhere in here that you should only stay surfaced in daytime and submerge at night.

Hope your hunting days improve :up:

MonkeyHero
08-07-05, 09:12 PM
That sounds like the information a dyslexic would give damo :P

I think you mean submerged during the day?

CCIP
08-07-05, 09:19 PM
Nope. Planes are in fact a greater danger at night.

Think of that one for a while and you'll realize why!

Tullaian
08-07-05, 09:27 PM
In the middle of the war without radar detectors, planes are far more dangerous at night since they can see you , and you can't see them. If you look at the historical accounts during that period uboats took to staying submerged at night and ran on the surface during the day when the lookouts could at least see the planes far enough away to allow for crash diving to saftey.

JBClark
08-07-05, 09:39 PM
Nope. Planes are in fact a greater danger at night.

Think of that one for a while and you'll realize why!

Well, that's the kind of info that makes this forum, this community and this sim worth my time. Thanks, I had not thought of it that way.

CCIP
08-07-05, 09:45 PM
Yea, to sort of expand... planes only became really dangerous when they got radar and leigh lights, allowing them to attack with minimum visual exposure. At night, without a detector, a uboat would not even know a plane was attacking it until it switched on its' Leigh light and then it would be too late...

And then consider the fact that the radar detection weren't at all failsafe or long-ranged!

JBClark
08-07-05, 10:28 PM
an interesting link: http://uboat.net/allies/technical/leigh_light.htm

Damo1977
08-08-05, 02:58 AM
That sounds like the information a dyslexic would give damo :P

I think you mean submerged during the day?

dyslexic? How mean.... :cry: SO unfair or should I say "riafnu"............ I demand an apology........ wheres my lawyer :rotfl:

Damo1977
08-08-05, 03:11 AM
That sounds like the information a dyslexic would give damo :P

I think you mean submerged during the day?

dyslexic? How mean.... :cry: SO unfair or should I say "riafnu"............ I demand an apology........ wheres my lawyer :rotfl:

Nah stuff the lawyer.......... I am going to ring up my mate Mr G.W.Bush and tell him you have WMD's in your house. Now your stuffed :rotfl:

MonkeyHero
08-08-05, 04:50 AM
Well this at least explains all of my late night aircraft troubles. I guess it's time I reversed my battery recharging strategy.

Pablo
08-08-05, 06:50 AM
depth charges not that strong anymore? Is this historically accuratE?
Hi!

The historical accuracy of RUb 1.43 remains to be seen, since it hasn't yet been released as of this writing; however, Navweapons.com (http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMUS_ASW.htm) has some interesting information on ship-based ASW weapons:

ASW effectiveness during World War II

In the first few months of the war only 5 percent of all depth charge attacks were successful. Normal combat conditions reduced that figure to 3 percent. Combat records showed that in early 1942 the lethal probability of a single depth charge pattern (barrage) was about 3 percent and five attacks would raise the chance of a kill to about 10 percent. The possibility of damaging a submarine was about 30 percent after five attacks. By the end of 1943, better weapons and tactics had improved these figures such that about 30 percent of all detected submarines suffered at least some damage and 20 percent were killed. By the last year of the war, at least 35 percent of the submarines attacked were damaged while 30 percent were killed. In mid-1944, the USN was claiming an 8 percent kill rate with a single Hedgehog pattern. By the middle of 1945, that figure had risen to 10 percent.
Note that SH3 doesn't even attempt to model the ability (starting in 1943) of large ASW aircraft to localize a u-boat using sonobuoys and then drop a homing torpedo (e.g., the Mk. 24 "FIDO") on it.....

Pablo

Oesten
08-08-05, 07:53 AM
Looking forward to RuB 1.43 very much.

Duli
08-08-05, 09:00 AM
Its already availible.

HEMISENT
08-08-05, 05:05 PM
CCIP
Thanks for all the work you guys have put into this mod. It's greatly appreciated.
First question I have is: Has a workaround for the 8km visibility been solved yet? I think I read somewhere you were onto something involving extending visual range out to around 15-20km.

Second question: In RUB1.42 seemed to be an overly large number of Catalinas, Libs, Sunderlands etc attacking. Is this accurate? and has the
amount of attacking a/c been modified?

Egan
08-08-05, 05:13 PM
CCIP
Second question: In RUB1.42 seemed to be an overly large number of Catalinas, Libs, Sunderlands etc attacking. Is this accurate? and has the
amount of attacking a/c been modified?

The aircover is totally overhauled so that shouldn't happen. You shouldn't see any more than a couple of aircraft in each attack now. let me know if you see any silly numbers.

None of this is to say the planes are easier. After May'43 you really should watch out... :up:

CCIP
08-08-05, 05:25 PM
Yep, what Egan says. It's changed in RUb 1.43, but has nothing to do with my work.

The Ops mod with Egan's new LND airbases should have pretty much removed any A/C number problems completely.

redstorm101
08-08-05, 05:27 PM
Thanks for the Tips big guy..... :up:

pampanito
08-13-05, 09:18 AM
I known, I know, you warned us about not engaging surface ships with the gun...

But I had run out of torpedoes attacking this convoy, I had sunk a Flower-class and the second one was far astern looking for nothing with her searchlight, and no less than three ships (including one T3) had been hit but were steaming on. I surfaced in a pitch-dark night and engaged them with the gun at long-range, just in case, and with no return fire I came closer, scoring hits all the time... And then there was this auxiliary cruiser firing at me, the only ship to do so, but her aim was really bad, and I was thinking 'one more hit and that tanker will sink'... and suddenly I was hit but the damage was slight (hydrophones, fixed soon) and as I was hitting target with every shot I foolishly remained in the surface... Now the tanker and another ship were burning, and I shifted my fire to that pesky auxiliary cruiser, hitting her badly, if only I could silence her the convoy would be absolutely defenceless... And then I was hit again. Flak guns, no serious, but this was too much risky, I ordered diving. Too late. The next second there was a clang... and the DIED screen. :damn:

Write it a hundred times... 'I shall never again risk my boat in a surface action'... :nope:

CCIP
08-13-05, 12:45 PM
Hehe... You do realize that "Pesky auxiliary cruiser" might have been armed with what.. 8" guns? :rotfl: