Airpower 1.4 or Overpowered 1.4

[HMCS]

I installed Airpower 1.4 using JGSME, and I noticed something kinda extreme - pairs of PBY Catalinas bombing the bejesus out of my boats....

It's Spring of 1941 and I am playing at/around %65 realism.

So I did a little researching, and according to UBoat.net there were only two subs sunk in 1941 by a/c; I have not gotten around to determining how rare the PBYs were to RAF CC in early '41 yet, but I suspect that there were very few- so far as I can recall, the majority of early RAF CC were 'lash-ups', meaning borrowed a/c from other commands. So I have come to the conclusion that the mod is not true to realism. Ergo I am not using it at the moment. I will take my chances with the equally unrealistic stock SH3 airstrikes for now... at least until it gets equally extreme.

The Hudsons were way more common, it seems, and they are not modded or modeled in vanilla SH3.

In any case, I have disabled the mod until I can figure out how to tweak it myself.

Any suggestions?

[Oesten]

As you say, Hudsons aren't in the game. So the Cats have to be used to replace them. Otherwise we'd be stuck with the even more unrealistic bomb-carrying Hurricanes.

[HMCS]

Then I would suppose that it would make sense to downgrade the early PBYs.... The Catalina was an excellent subkiller, only the Liberators and Sunderlands were more feared.

How difficult is modding a/c?

[Jace11]

muhaha :stare:

easy, use notepad for cfg files and hex editor for sim and zon files

[Pablo]

I installed Airpower 1.4 using JGSME, and I noticed something kinda extreme - pairs of PBY Catalinas bombing the bejesus out of my boats....

It's Spring of 1941 and I am playing at/around %65 realism.

So I did a little researching, and according to UBoat.net there were only two subs sunk in 1941 by a/c

Any suggestions?
HMCS,

From your brief description it sounds like the mod is simulating historical aircraft tactics - a single aircraft that spotted a submarine on the surface would, where possible, call in nearby patrolling aircraft before attacking (Source: Gordon Williamson, Wolf Pack. Osprey Publishing, 2005).

I guess the first question I would have is, "How realistic are your own tactics?" For example, do you do any of the following:
- Run on the surface in daylight within range of enemy air bases (note the mod increased aircraft patrol range)
- Stay on the surface to fight it out with aircraft instead of "crash dive" followed by "knuckle turn."If you use either of the above ahistorical tactics then you will likely get ahistorical results (e.g., death by aircraft in 1941). It's my understanding that the entire point of the Airpower mod is to make aircraft worthy of respect. For example, have you tried running the Academy FlaK test with the Airpower mod? Those planes aren't nearly as easy to shoot down as they were before.

Pablo

[CCIP]

I've learned to dodge planes very well on the surface. The key is making the right manuevers at the right times.

That said, if you're using RUb, the Hollywood DM is a little on the 'weak' side, so boats may be somewhat more prone to damage than they should be. This will be fixed up in RUb 1.43

[Jace11]

Overpowered?? Maybe the crew of this german trawler would agree with you. I am using a new LAND folder with single aircraft patrols and there were two Sunderlands in this picture, one attacked me and was off turning around, while another took on the trawler... Sending it spinning through the air..

http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/1479/sh3img23720051330228906ao.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[R48]

That said, if you're using RUb, the Hollywood DM is a little on the 'weak' side, so boats may be somewhat more prone to damage than they should be. This will be fixed up in RUb 1.43

Have you had any success in increasing the time taken for repair? This part of SH3 is horrible.

[CCIP]

Have you had any success in increasing the time taken for repair? This part of SH3 is horrible.

Yes, some success. This is done by taking away compartamental 'unrepairable' armor (which was tied to hull integrity) which used to absorb damage, and replacing it with bulkier HP that will HAVE to be repaired :)
More importantly, repairs will now be far more crucial as there is FAR greater chance of systems going offline if you don't repair them. (for instance, your batteries or compressor going offline during a depth charge attack could cause catastrophic results if you don't prioritize repairs).

It's not the long-term repair system people want (including myself), but that approach just won't work in SHIII as it is now. On the other hand, repair and damage will now be far more meaningful :up:

[HMCS]

I don't have a problem with tougher a/c in the mod, just the # and the types available at historical periods where they weren't available in significant #'s.

The idea of 3 Catalinas gathering for an attack in March '41 seems a bit off, I don't have the facts in front of me for the moment, but from my readings the Cansos were not avail. in sig. #'s until the second half of '41.

This comes from UBoat.net:

HUDSONS:

1941
U-570 +,
1942
U-656, U-503, U-573, U-701, U-754, U-619, U-658,
U-411, U-595, U-605, U-259, U-331 +,

1943
U-442, U-83, U-77 +, U-167 +, U-447, U-646, U-273,
U-755, U-594, U-97, U-199 +, U-336,

PBY'S

1941
U-452 +,
1942
U-74 +, U-464, U-94 +, U-582, U-408,

1943
U-164, U-507, U-620, U-156, U-209, U-640, U-467,
U-388, U-194, U-590, U-135 +, U-662, U-199 +, U-197,

1944
U-601, UIT-22, U-392 +, U-342, U-731 +, U-241, U-476,
U-477, U-980, U-715, U-423, U-1225, U-478 +, U-361, U-742,

1945
U-1107, U-320,

Not to flog a dead horse or anything, but it seems to me that more a/c modeled and a closer mix of a/c to availabilites consistent with historical reality could be a way to go...

[CCIP]

The problem with the numbers is actually in the game's LND layer which has too many airbases the coverage of which overlaps.

Operations will feature a modded layer by Egan and Jace that will get rid of the overlap where unneccesary, and use it to advantage where it's realistic. I don't think there's any other current effort on that, but that's the way to correct those problems. Coming soon, I think :up:

[R48]

It's not the long-term repair system people want (including myself), but that approach just won't work in SHIII as it is now. On the other hand, repair and damage will now be far more meaningful

OK. This is good to hear! I'm for anything that improves the damage aspect of SH3. Thanks for working on this :up:

[jasonb885]

I installed Airpower 1.4 using JGSME, and I noticed something kinda extreme - pairs of PBY Catalinas bombing the bejesus out of my boats....


Me, too, with RuB1.42 (stock) and a campaign in mid '43.

[darkdrone]

Jace 11 did u stop to rescue the poor bastards from the fishing boat or were they KIF [killed in fishing] :rotfl: this mod's pretty hardcore coupled with Hollywood damage mod.... u'll be lucky to survive[/quote]

[Jace11]

Nah I dived away and ran like a sensible Herr Kaleun.

My Campaign_LND differs only slightly from 1.4b stock LND. Egan's looks more comprehensive. I don't release it cause of incompatabilities with other files.

[v!por]

Gents:

I spend most of my time crash diving to 50 meters when pairs of either pby, Southerland, or B24s come in for the kill... I keep my finger on the damned Crash dive key:<) I am well West of Spain in the Western Convoy Routes and still get hit constantly....

Last hit was by two waives of Southernlands... ( I think that is the name)... but with radar warning system.. as soon as I pick up radar scan... I am a div'en.

Also... no radar warning and hit by two B24s.... as I crash dive to safety ....

This takes away from this game in a big way :<)

Thank u

[CCIP]

This takes away from this game in a big way :<)


Eh? How so?
:hmm:

[v!por]

CCIP:

I base my statement on the frequency of the ac attacks... :<).... I wonder if it were that way during the war? I dive quickly.... stay under for one to two hours at 3 or 4 knots at about 40 meters.... come up recharge bat and o2, and ...... soon enough ... radar warning... time to dive :<)

I am aware the U-boat captains historically in 43 were hard pressed to get around growing allied air cover... but CCIP... was it that bad as in this game?

Now if I had a snorkel on my VIIC ... I am at April of 43.... and u gents implemented one or more small mods like Jungman is working on the surface area of the snorkel... I and could die happy :<)

CCIP... any way I could hack the time of upgrading to snorkel? and... in what file is it located???

Again.. many thanks to u gents who take the time out to improve this sim....

[R48]

The key is making the right manuevers at the right times.

CCIP,

Do you manuever first on the surface then dive? I'm just curious what tactics you use.

[CCIP]

It varies, really. One thing I noticed, and I can't stress enough, is that auto-dives save lives. You should have the default response set to "periscope depth" after 1943, and follow it up immideately with a crash dive. That seems to work 9 times out of 10.

As for manuevering, I found that it's kind of similar to missile evasion in modern flight sims: you keep turning tight turns while keeping the enemy as close as possible to your 3/9 line (directly left or right), and then the key point is to keep a turn a little longer when they start approaching, only to immideately deflect to the opposite side as soon as or just before the planes start their final attack dive. That way, they almost always miss... 9 times out of 10, at least.

[R48]

auto-dives save lives

:rotfl:

missile evasion in modern flight sims

I've been into flight sims for years. I understand what you mean. Thanks.

[Seaboy]

Hell, I'd accept fleets of UFOs if it would make the game more scary. I like scary.