TMA exercise thread?

[MarkShot]

I remember a while ago that someone {I believe who had professional training} was posting a thread(s) of TMA exercises for the general community.

I wanted to review them, if possible. Would someone have a link(s) to the particular threads?

Thanks.

[Bellman]

Plotting and TMA exercises ?

http://www.tpub.com/content/combat/14308/css/14308_153.htm

[MarkShot]

That wasn't it.

It was a thread(s) with dot stack situations and how to interpret what the contact was most likely doing.

Thanks.

[TopTorp '92]

That wasn't it.

It was a thread(s) with dot stack situations and how to interpret what the contact was most likely doing.

Thanks.

I placed this some time ago. I comment on TMA issues from time to time. See this thread:

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=317412&highlight=#317412

If you want an exercise in dot stack interpretation, read the TMA manual on Bill's website. If you can think of editorial recommendations, please send me some so I can improve the manual.

If you want an exercise in dot stack interpreatation & the manual is insufficient to treat your interests, then send me a link and I'll generate some scenarios for you. If anything, it will help you to make better tactical decisions.
Top Torp

[MarkShot]

Thanks for your reply. I am familiar with your TMA guide, but I think I will reread it. (recently started playing SC and SC/SCXIIc/SCU seriously these days)

I am still working on learning SC tactics. There is a big difference between this and WWII subsims. I recently realized that as soon as you have been able to ID an enemy sub (whether at war or peace) do not generate anymore closure. WWII subsims due to dumb weapons are very big on closing. Here it seems detection/separation is the golden rule.

I don't know why, but I had the impression that there had been a whole series of "TMA exercises for the reader" posted here or at Battlefront. It shows that I clearly need to be doing more manual TMA as my age is probably beginning to dull my mental faculties. :)

[Bellman]

MarkShot: -
1.The article I mentioned answers many TMA questions.
2.It incorporates 'exercises.
3.Its available from another 'free' source. (Cant recall)
4.Some excellent TMA lessons are available at the Seawolves (SOAC).
5.Its possible that you read some 'pull' from these SOAC 'notes'

Anyway - 'Good hunting' :rock:

[MarkShot]

Okay, I visited the SOAC library on the Web. Lots of interesting stuff there. However, all the document links seem to redirect to some other domain.

I suppose this is intentional so that only members may access the site's materials. That's unfortunate. I've done quite a few gaming guides and tutoring. It was always made available to the general public without any requirements for payment/regimentation/membership. As a hobbyist, I always felt that free dissemination of information/help was the best way to advance/share my hobby. Oh, well ...

[Bellman]

Mark,

I agree completely with your thoughts on 'free dissemination' see my rant -

http://subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=38495&highlight=

Unfortunately a culture of secrecy, particularly amongst divers, has sprung from the competitive situation in some fleets.
There senior divers have fought their way to the 'top' gaining promotion by employing skills/techniques
which they do not pass-on easily. Oysters and pearls comes to mind.

I think with the introduction of DW, this culture is changing, but slowly. The 'Tips' vault and Landlubbers are steps in the right direction.

This type of sim is a minority interest and some fleets (tact) waste the precious asset which is new players
by hitting on them too hard too soon. Killers armed with 'secrets'

I try to contribute to Tips and others like Molon and OneShot freely impart information.
(not forgettting many, many others to whom we are deeply indebted)
From your experience I know you will also join this movement. :sunny:

[MarkShot]

Yep, I am quite familiar with the argument of knowledge hoarding as a means to effective online play.

Two of my three guides were directly the result of online play and focused upon it. Besides not joining clubs, I also avoided participating in "official" competitions that generated pecking orders. Yet, while being among the best, I managed to always share how I got the kills. That led to a lot more fun by everyone. Myself (who learned and got better and could not fall back on the same old tired bag of tricks) and the students who rather than getting their egos bruised found new subtle aspects to their hobby that had previously alluded them.

I looked at the materials at the SOAC site and thought "what a shame", I would have loved to read most of it. Also, I thought about how frequently you hear forum participants lament on this site how small the player community is and how the few developers of such games can barely generate enough sales from one game to produce the next. Every game has among its customers an abandonment rate. One of the factors involved is how approachable the games is to novice players. For games such as SC/DW, there are some who will buy the game ... struggle with complexity of concepts and rather limited training materials and give up. I saw many flight simmers who fell into that category who just needed some help to get going. So, instead of hoarding knowledge to score the next kill, more proficient players could be helping to reduce the abandonment rate. That leads to more online players, more interesting competition, and a larger customer base for the developers. (since many offline players benefit from materials produced by the online players)

Well, enough "ranting", I am off to the my sonar room to reinvent the wheel. :)

[Bellman]

:D Music - sheer music to my ears.

[MarkShot]

TopTorp92,

I reread your TMA article this morning.

While trying to visualize the various cases in my head, it dawned on me that there are, in fact, only 8 cases. As such the computer systems professional in me cried out, "Why visualize anything? Just produce a TMA for dummies table!" :)

Please see below. If you would be so kind as to indicate what goes into the 8 missing entries, I would appreciate it!

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markshot/tempimages/tt.jpg

[Bellman]

I wonder whether a way to proceed may be to design a scenario wth several platforms carrying out
a range of manouveres. Own sub follows 'designed' course/s with no deviation/s.

Two or more players run manual TMA in SP and use your table. Coordinate results to assess what degree of
systemisation is possible. I would be willing to participate. :)

I suspect that the 'interpretation' aspect will be shown to be as much an art as a science
in some but importantly not all cases.

[MarkShot]

I think, in most cases, you will have DEMON on the contact. Even in the case where you may not have an ID on the contact, you can still observe the line shift in DEMON. Except in the BOTH situation, DEMON will either confirm a speed change or narrow it down to a course change.

[Fish]

I ones made a map to improve my TMA skills.
One playable sub, and four AI on transit, set different speed and course on the waypoints, put all four subs (prob of inclusion 25%) in a dynamic group. Min one, max one.
Make the playable and the AI same side.
Now you can add contacts to the navmap, while you can see the AI if you like to see how acurate you are (show allied).

[SquidB]

TMA is a black art.

I have found that eye of newt and wing of bat are as mcuh good as diagrams.

Thats the challenge. That gut feeling you have about the possub.....?

Fire at it and see what happens

[Bellman]

Thanks RADM that adds a further level of unpredictability to the type of testing I have previously run. :)

[TopTorp '92]

TopTorp92,

I reread your TMA article this morning.

While trying to visualize the various cases in my head, it dawned on me that there are, in fact, only 8 cases. As such the computer systems professional in me cried out, "Why visualize anything? Just produce a TMA for dummies table!" :)

Please see below. If you would be so kind as to indicate what goes into the 8 missing entries, I would appreciate it!

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markshot/tempimages/tt.jpg

Wow, a table showing cases!

I was never a programmer but I use excel to rebalance my stock options portfolio.

When it comes to TMA & LOS drills, the table may help you for now, otherwise it's too complicated for me.

Start the game and do a simulation with just the target (a surface ship) and ownship.

Here are some common sense rules for lag LOSs:

Targets on the left side of the ship should move left on the sonar screen.
Targets on the right side of the ship should move to the right on the sonar screen.

In these situations, the target is moving roughly 180 in the opposite direction as own ship. So, if you are going northerly, then he is going southerly & vice versa.

Here is the exception: Both vessels may be moving in the same direction but Own Ship (OS) has higher speed. If this is in fact the case, then you have an overlead LOS. This kind of LOS is risky because there is an increased chance of collision. In any event, to eliminate the possibility of an overlead, you turn the ship away from the target in order to reduce the possibility of collision.

You also either turn OS or change speed to check the change in bearing rate. When the actual bearing rate matches your solution's bearing rate, then you have a good solution & the dots will continue to stack.

Top Torp