AI: Escorts & Warships

[Seaboy]

well here's an idea, use your 'break-up' routine for the early war, cause in truth many of the early convoys DID break up when the shooting started. As for the mid to late part of the war, that would be different.

[Sawdust]

Are you marking a marchant ship as the group leader?

[iambecomelife]

Yes; I still get the problem anyway.

[Treeburst155]

Are you checking the Escort box for DDs and DEs in the group?

[Jace11]

Anything larger than a DD get incorporated into the convoy formation. Only DD's and smaller get posted around the formation and that only happens when they are selected as "position as escort" otherwise, they too appear in the convoy formation.

Battleships, cruisers and carriers just take up a merchant station inside, usually near the center.

[U-552Erich-Topp]

:) Hello all, I have been creating my latest historical mission, Hipper and convoy JW51B.......but the times that the ships reach their waypoints doesn't work out. Yet in the real battle the times that the ships took to each waypoint did work out. If I start a destroyer at 30 knots initially it does 30 knots until it gets to its first waypoint and then slows down to 5 knots. The destroyer just won't maintain the speed of 30 knots from waypoint to waypoint to the end of the waypoints. This problem doesn't seem to be related to the wind, weather or visibility as to why the ships all slow down. Does anyone know why this happens ????? Thank you all, Erich Topp U-552

[Jace11]

each waypoint contains a new speed setting, make sure they are 30 knots too, as it sounds, you have the default of 5 knots.

If you set 30 knots in the unit properties then make new waypoints, those will be all 30 knots, but if you make the waypoints first before changing the speed, then your first waypoint is 30 rest are 5.

[U-552Erich-Topp]

:) Hello Jace, Thankyou very much for your help. You are exactly right, I made the waypoints first then tried to change the speed of the ship. That's why they go from 30 knots to 5 knots. Thanks again and Good Hunting, Erich Topp U-552 :)

[von Buelow]

Say I make one elco, or any ship for that matter, (I'll call him the "leader") and plot some waypoints. I then add more ships and combine them to form a "group", will the add-ons follow the initial elco and it's waypoints as a group?

If the first elco dies, do the remaining ships continue on the waypoints assigned to the "leader"?

[von Buelow]

FOLLOW UP:

3 Elcos that were assigned to escort the Bizmark stopped when the Bizmark stopped, and did not continue once it was sunk.

[Col7777]

Sorry I missed this thread, I scripted a mission with a convoy where the lead ship was sunk and yes, the convoy carried on it's route.

[The Avon Lady]

Sorry I missed this thread, I scripted a mission with a convoy where the lead ship was sunk and yes, the convoy carried on it's route.
Did you have to do anything special to accomplish this or is this how the game works?

If that's how it works, how do we explain von Buelow's experience to the contrary? :hmm:

[von Buelow]

Hmm :hmm: ...more testing this wekend... maybe it's one of those "random" :88) features?

Or, maybe ships that are "escorts" stay with their ship, while "convoys" will continue on. I did mention that my ships are "grouped," not just paced next to eachother with the same waypoints.

[Col7777]

I made a group of the lead ship then added other ships plus escorts and when the lead ship got torped the convoy carried on it's course.

I recently made a Japanese task-force with a cruiser and 3 escort DD's, I managed to torp the cruiser, the DD's gave a hunt but I slipped away. I monitored their progress and they re-grouped and went on the course I had set in the mission editor.
I was playing as a British sub btw.

[von Buelow]

maybe its ship specific?

My case was elcos grouped around the Bismark - 2 times, same results

[Vaxnig]

I am currently creating a mission and have a quick question about destroyers.

If you have a destroyer following set waypoints, will it break off its course and attack enemy targets if it detects them? If it does not then how do you set it for them to do so.

[Perilscope]

...will it break off its course and attack enemy targets if it detects them?.

Yes, it will break off and attack enemy ships, and return to its course after loosing or destroying the target.

[andy_311]

I would like to make a TF (Axis) to intercept a convoy In the Baltic Sea the TF will comprise of Capital ships and Escorts but I want the escorts comeing from other ports ie Kiel to join up with the capital ships I also want to do the same with the allied side so they will join up at a certain point and sail towards the Axis TF I never done this before to make a task force up how can I do it please?
2 I want this TF with Air cover on both sides,low level medium and high level bombers but I don't want the aircraft attacking (fighters)just ships I want them to engage aircraft as well (be iteresting to see who shoots who down first with armour plated planes if it can be done)
3 the Primary mission of the sub would be to keep anyone from getting close to the Tf
Cany anyone help me out here please?

[booger2005]

If you wan't to make the escorts join the TF, then they will have to be from a seperate group, and you will have to time the meeting perfectly. Good luck. AFAIK, all of the ships in a group never try to converge, they just follow a leader an try to maintain their orientation relative to the leader as the group heads from waypoint to waypoint.

The aircover shouldn't be much of an issue, I suppose they may try to attack each other, but this will be determined by AI and there is nothing you can do as a mission designer to influence this.

The primary mission objective is impossible as stated. The game does not recognize when any ship except the human controlled sub enters a zone.
You could however, create an objective thet fails if any of your ships are sunk and succeeds when all of the enemy units are sunk.

The mission editor is a bit too primitive to allow for highly creative or intricate maneuvers, I'm afraid, and there are only a limited number of objectives that are recognized. :x

[Rose]

how do i make a BB vs. BB battle?

[Gizzmoe]

Here is a Mission Editor tutorial:
http://hometown.aol.co.uk/dominicobaggio/Missioncreation1.html

[Rose]

Thank you :D. so im assuming the enemy ships automatically engage each other and there is no need to put triggers in (triggers? I honestly have no idea what im talking about haha)?

[Gizzmoe]

Yes, they automatically engage each other.

[Rose]

Last question: If i have set the waypoints of the two BB groups to go straight past each other, is the AI smart enough to have the ships stop, fight the battle, have one side come out the victor, and THEN have them go on their merry way? Or will the two forces stay at a constant 5 knots, fire a few shots as they pass each other, and never stop?

[Gizzmoe]

As far as I know in real life ships never stopped when there was a duel, it just wouldn´t be a good idea for various reasons.

In SH3 the two BB´s will follow their waypoints exactly and sail at the speed you set. I could be wrong, but IIRC the smaller escort vessels like DD´s actually try to evade opponents they can´t defeat.

[sergbuto]

BBs and cruiser have limited AI capabilities. They usually follow the waypoints and engage their guns whenever appropriate. DDs are allowed for more initiative. I have even seen them chasing the smaller vessels such as PT boats. Not sure about evading the bigger opponents though.

You may want to try testing the AI abilities by setting some DD as a leader/main vessel of the group which includes BBs and/or cruisers.

[Rose]

Ok, so I get my battle ready to go: Two Tirpitz's and a Scharnhorst vs. a King George, and two other Brit BBs. I organise the British and Germans into two different groups, place them in Ship of the Line formation. The two lines are facing each other, heading in opposite directions. This set up will have them meet beam to beam for a fantastic explosive gunbattle. I place the Human U-Boat, load up the Single Mission, and lo and behold! The whole German group doesn't show up! The three proud British BBs are right in front of my nose, but no sight of the damned Kriegsmarine... Can someone help me with this puh-lease?

[Gizzmoe]

Upload the mission to Rapidshare.de, I will then take a look at it.

[Rose]

Here it is m8:

http://ul34.rapidshare.de/cgi-bin/upload.cgi?rsuploadid=111440630816329385

[Gizzmoe]

I need the link to the file you have uploaded, not the link to Rapidshare´s upload page! ;)

[Cdre Gibs]

I would hazard a guess that he has "Evolve from Start Date" Selected for the German TF. This would mean that the German TF has already been an gone.

[Rose]

Hahaha thats my problem im sure. But what exactly does "evolve from start date" mean?

[Cdre Gibs]

"Evolve from Start Date" means that those selected with this option will evolve from start date of SH3 - that being 1939. So as the game goes along these ships will evolve with the game from 1939. They will upgrade their weps as time goes by and will keep moving along their ploted path according to date. There for if you have a ship thats available say in 1940 and you make a mission with it in 1941, it will start the mission as if it had been already at sea from 1940. Ergo, its been and gone.

[Rose]

Dammit thats not my problem :(. Ill try to post the file link again.

[Rose]

So what if it's been 2 months since I asked the question :D. Finally, after two months, HERE is the correct link Gizzmoe.

[Gizzmoe]

There is no link... :)

[Wilko]

maybe it has come and gone as well :o

[andy_311]

I did a simmilar BBvBB mission recently but I kept puting in more and more ships and planes into the mission to the point I think the Allies have in the region of 47 warships in there compared to the Axis side of 33 ships of all types I only did the mission because I wanted to see what a fire fight would be like with a lot of ships fireing (over the horizon) and if you look at the Nav map you get a lot of Grey ships Icons sunk, the problem now is getting out of the area.

[Rose]

Oh lord... I think I was so tired last night that I went through all the trouble to host the file, but forgot to actually post it here :lol:.

HERE is the correct link: http://rapidshare.de/files/26476988/Battleship_Fun.mis.html

[Rose]

Hey you there Gizzmoe?

[Gizzmoe]

Yep...

[Rose]

Well.... I posted the link again...

[Rose]

Gizzmoe, mate, sorry to bother you but would you mind takin a look at that link again?

[MobyGrape]

OH NO No Gizz..is gone,,U bastrid, they Killed Gizzy:D

[(SH3)JOHN LAMARRE]

i put it in and the ship is not there plz help

[rasmus1896]

check the entry date in mission editor. make it same as you and the other ships

[Rose]

Bumpity bump bump.

[mr chris]

Rose, this mission of your's, is it going to be a single payer one or a multiplayer one?

[(SH3)JOHN LAMARRE]

i did and nothing

[bigboywooly]

Check mission parametres too
Make sure the mission doesnt start after the Bismarks end date and dont check evolve from entry unless the Bismarks entry date is the same as the missions

[Rose]

Single player... If good 'ole Gizzmoe could help me out here.

[U-104]

The file was deleted. No download for a long period of time.

[Rose]

DOH! I'll have to upload it again soon.

[Jimbuna]

ASAP and a few more of us might look at it :up:

[corvette k225]

First of all I made a mission with 9 liberty ships in a small convoy the date setting
was 1942-feb-5 day. For some reason some Liberty ships had deck guns and some
didnot. So what could I be doing wrong.:oops: :oops: Thanks

[WilhelmSchulz.]

Where they split between US and British? Cuse British Libertys dont have DGs.

[bigboywooly]

The eqp file in the sea folder governs wether a ship has guns or not
Shouldnt not difference what nation a ship is from
It should be the same

[Mush Martin]

see this thread http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=104522

[Finback]

Thanks for the hard/good work Mush!!! I've already enjoyed being pasted by your efforts once and am sure it will happen again :lol: :nope: .

So I hope you can sleep good tonight, secure in the knowledge that you've made the convoy lanes a little safer--for the Allies :hmm: .

Thanks Again!!! Great Job!!!

Salute!!!

:rock:

[Mush Martin]

Thanks for the hard/good work Mush!!! I've already enjoyed being pasted by your efforts once and am sure it will happen again :lol: :nope: .

So I hope you can sleep good tonight, secure in the knowledge that you've made the convoy lanes a little safer--for the Allies :hmm: .

Thanks Again!!! Great Job!!!

Salute!!!

:rock:

Kudos Still to BBW for the most part.
it was just my initiative.
but the blood sweat and toil
came from the swindon shipyards.

None the less She is quite a ship. A worthy adversary for sure.

MM

[Webster]

im trying to create some missions and i decided to include auxilary cruisers since i dont recall seeing any in the missions i played so far. well they were generated just fine but they were always stationary even with way points and set to full speed. i tried all eng ships just to see if there were others and found a dozen or so that stayed stationary in the same manner. at this point i have only checked warships. do i need a patch to repair the mission editor?

[Mush Martin]

select unit right click and choose go towards waypoint
as the last act of setting up the unit if you dont want
it stationary

[Webster]

i got that part ok but it still wont move


ok here's what i have :
6 dd j class destroyers and 1 cl southampton class
that work fine as directed, but i have 2 auxiliary cruisers
and 1 dd clemson class destroyer that won't move and it won't let me add them to the main group, i have to group the cruisers as a seperate group as well as make a new group for the clemson destroyer. i'm very confused by all this.
it did say something about commision date was something or the other. is the historical timeline dictating which ships work?

[wingtip]

when you say they arent moving is this in the editor or when you actually run the mission in the game? If its not moving in just the editor its because of the selected time frame.. go to the top above the map and adjust the dates to match your preset timeline you chose for the mission... then the units should start working that werent working before...

[Dietrich]

If it's in the mission editor, then it might be because of the entry/exit dates. Left-click on the Aux.Cruiser icon, and then right-click and select properties. Look at the entry/exit dates of the ship. If your mission is set to start outside of this time-range, you should not expect this ship to participate (i.e. it won't move in the mission editor simulator and it will not appear in the mission itself.)

[Webster]

as it turned out i had corrupted the mission edors files by swapping gwx data folder and stock data folders back and forth while doing comparisons for modding.


uninstalling and deleting all remaining files then rebooting and reinstalling fixed it.

[marv2112]

I put togather a simple test mission to check out how the K-ships fight. I was in for a real surprise. I figured we would "POP" the sucker, & that would be it.:D WRONG.:huh: One U-Boat at a time, I dropped just about every U-Boat option I could in the area of two K-ships. Only the later war versions that had 2 dual 2cm Flaks & a quad 2cm flak had any chance against them! :doh: Seems only a direct hit on the engine will knock one out. The engines are very small, so hope U'r flak crew has a lot of ammo if you decide to stay on the surface and take one on. They dropped real nice presents too- & NOT the kind Santa brings eigther... well that is unless your house has ever been machine gunned, bombed, & depth charged by Santa! :88)

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Well some things to think about regarding why we made the the K-ship damage model the way that we did.

In real life, the K-ship would cruise at a MUCH higher altitude than we can really simulate in SH3.

As a result in SH3, it is an overly easy target.

In real life, if you punch a hole in its gasbag... or even quite a few holes... you can compare the leak-rate to trying to suck a swimming pool dry with a straw.

In real life, they were not filled with explosive hydrogen.

In SH3, if they spot you, their job is done... as units in SH3 communicate your position to all assets available in the vicinity that may be able to attack you... simulating real life wireless communications.

[marv2112]

Thanks for some of the "behind the scenes" facts on the K-Ship model you folks put in GWX 2.0! :D The K-Ships are one of MANY very cool additions made by GWX 2.0! THANK YOU to all on the GWX team! I definitely was put in my place by assuming they were easy targets though. For sure! They were stationed at Lakehurst Naval station in WWII, not too far from where I live in NJ.

[pluskat]

Its 1941 now I have been from Portland to Scapa flow and
as far a new york and that just the start ive looked in
all the ports at some time or the other and have never seen 1 battleship
in the game addon nothing bigger than a cruiser but they are in the
campaign files does any one know if they are ever in the open
sea or where to find them

thanks

[Bent Periscope]

Try:

BB Prince of Wages In Loch Ewe from 07/01/41 to 12/10/41 or in Placentia Bay, Newfoundland near Mt. Arlington Heights from 08/09/41 to 08/12/41. (I don’t know how she can be in the two locations at one time. Something to do with an experiment in Philly.

BB Nevada in Placentia Bay from 08/07/41 to 08/12/41.

BB Nelson in Alexandria from 10/12/41 to 10/06/41.

BP

[Jaman]

BB Nelson in Alexandria from 10/12/41 to 10/06/41.
Does the Nelson have a timemachine onboard?. :D

[Bent Periscope]

Originally Posted by Bent Periscope http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//smartdark/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//showthread.php?p=1115504#post1115504)
BB Nelson in Alexandria from 10/12/41 to 10/06/41.
Does the Nelson have a timemachine onboard?. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//images/smilies/4.gif

See what happens when I try to do this quickly before someone walks by my cubicle.

Try 10/12/41 to 11/06/41.:DL

[Adam84]

BB Prince of Wages In Loch Ewe from 07/01/41 to 12/10/41 or in Placentia Bay, Newfoundland near Mt. Arlington Heights from 08/09/41 to 08/12/41. (I don’t know how she can be in the two locations at one time. Something to do with an experiment in Philly.

Prince of Wages, aka my boss.

[kdv]

I've been messing around with SH3 mission editor, trying to figure out where enemy CV's and BB's are.

So far I've pretty much gone around in circles getting nowhere - I'm looking under the campaign files at campaign_lnd.mis, campaign_rnd.mis, and campaign_scr.mis.

Am using GWX3, not sure if that makes a difference.

[psykopatsak]

its nothing hard really, but you must know where to look...

[kdv]

its nothing hard really, but you must know where to look...

I figure it's got to be something like that :yep:.

Any idea as to where to look?

[WilhelmSchulz.]

Your best bet is to look in the scr files. Also look around the major fleet bases. Loch Ewe, Scapa Flow, Norfolk, ect. When you look in thoes ports look at the names of the ships in the ports. For instance one would be "BR BB King George1"

As for finding one out at sea? Its Hit or miss. since thoes are usely controled under the rnd campain files. But I say this hang around the approaches to the fleet bases. You will usaly find a TF comeing to port to dock. Also if you feel daring BF13 will have some CVEs later in the war.

[kdv]

Have found a few CVe's, they're fun to sink - but don't have the tonnage of a full-fledged CV. Would love to sink Courageous or Illustrious.

I have found certain large ships I'd love to sink in the scr files, but find it almost impossible to track them apart from the other ships. Would be nice if there was a filter or something.

SH3 Editor seems to be a very confusing program to figure out, and google provides no help on using it either.

Oh well, will just keep messing around - maybe I'll figure something out.

Thanks anyways guys.

[Ktl_KUrtz]

Does anybody know if there is a (cheat) in Single Mission Builder too make DD's more aggressive?
How can I make DD's stay in contact, depth charging for longer?
Thanks a lot if you can help!
KUrtz

[Wreford-Brown]

Try opening the single mission in Mission Editor and change the experience of the DDs to 'Veteran'.

There's also a way through SH3 Commander to change the amount of time they will stay in contact. I think the default is that they will stop looking after 30 mins of no contact with your boat. You could increase this to 60 or 90 mins and that should give the effect you're after. I don't have the files in front of me but will look them up tonight if no one beats me to it.

[Ktl_KUrtz]

Thanks very much for that!:up:
I will certainly give it a go.
KUrtz
Ps. sorry for the delay in replying:damn:

[Captain J. Borne]

Try opening the single mission in Mission Editor and change the experience of the DDs to 'Veteran'.

You can even set it to "Elite". And I will add that they are a bit more aggressive than "veteran".