Can This Be A Work Around For The 8 KM Visibility?

[Jungman]

The changes are only to the size of the sky so it fits the bigger world.
Any color changes are there to be made. Compare the files. Only the size of the sky was made bigger to see.

It will fit all RUB new color.

Do we need to download jungman's sensors mod separately or is it included in this mod?

It is very modable. what do you want in it? We need to figure out why or a work around for the night vision being too big.

[CCIP]

@CCIP.... any progress on updating your Camera.dat mod (Kaleun version) to unlock the Camera in the 'Periscope Seat' station?


Ah, good reminder. I've been busy with another project lately, but I think I can squeeze this in for release in the next few days :)

[jasonb885]

the more people are lookin into this sim the more cracks are showing.
why oh why would the devs have visual ranges at day and night the same? plus the radar issues

Development deadlines or design decisions. The system can obviously handle the bigger world, so far. But seems like the RWD issue seems to indicate a decision was made at some point early in development of the engine that they'd limit it to 8km.

It could be any number of things from a fatal flaw to system requirements. Perhaps it's too FPS intensive for older machines. Who knows. I just hope the 8km limit isn't due to a fatal game engine flaw, or all of this work will be for not. And yet 8km seems like a hell of a way to cripple a subsim's game engine without a good reason.

It's clear why the free cam high is limited like it was, though. The game looks like crap if you go much above the original limit. From several km up the water looks boring and repetitive.

[CCIP]

Well there IS a drop in FPS, and you know how people get all "omg, FPS sucks=bad game" :roll:

Personally, I can sacrifice 30% of my FPS for having ~250% more visibility :hmm:
I guess that's not the way the Devs saw it though...

[jasonb885]

Well there IS a drop in FPS, and you know how people get all "omg, FPS sucks=bad game" :roll:

Personally, I can sacrifice 30% of my FPS for having ~250% more visibility :hmm:
I guess that's not the way the Devs saw it though...

I mean for part of their target market the FPS might have been fatal, moving into, say, sub 24fps territory.

Who knows.

It's a shame no one can share with us why they made the decision they did to cripple Mark One in the game.

[Jungman]

I got some progress in the night visibility problem, spotting at super long range. Just for the fun of it, I set the Light Intensity modifier in sensors.cfg under visual from default 0.8, the Mod has it at 1.5, I set for 100. The watch crew really do not spot well at night now, random from about 10 km, maybe to 14 km.

If you are already tracking the ship via sonar or anything else, it will have an already tracking bonus and be spotted anyway to max range. So no surprises in heavy fog I hope.

During the daytime hours they spot at maximum of 17.5 km fairly well, just not quite as fast as your normally use too.

Dawn and dusk can be problematic. Sometimes spot Maximum and sometimes only about 10 km.

Did you notice with a partial cloudy sky at night, the clouds are white, and they go all the way to the ocean horizon? :huh: Originally, there is a black ring at distance. You can see black smoke from ships against the white cloud's background now.

[oRGy]

I got some progress in the night visibility problem, spotting at super long range. Just for the fun of it, I set the Light Intensity modifier in sensors.cfg under visual from default 0.8, the Mod has it at 1.5, I set for 100. The watch crew really do not spot well at night now, random from about 10 km, maybe to 14 km.
.

Huh - sounds like the engine programmers messed up and moved the value over a decimal place...

[Duke of Earl]

About Visibility Mod v091:

What I like:

a. Scene.dat... even though FPS is 25 fps or less in Free Cam... the skydome is much, much bigger... the Ocean area at high altitude is much better looking.. no clipping on horizon... ship smoke is very visible at long ranges.... just like real life

b. Sensors.dat... good values for Periscope and Visual... however, I edited Visual MaxRange to 18Km and Visual PreciseRange to 10Km (so I can use the Uzo to shoot T1's long range)... I also edited Periscope MaxRange to 8Km and Periscope PreciseRange to 7.5Km (again, so I can shoot T1's long range)...

What I didn't care for too much:

c. SkyColors_xxx.dat... made the underwater visibility too foggy for my tastes... it is realistic fogginess, but I want a clearer underwater landscape for those Hollywood views...

d. Cameras.dat... unfortunately, this does not have the unlocked FreeCam properties of CCIP's mod.. so, it had to go...

e. Sensors.cfg... during an air attack, my WO absolutely 'refused' to see a single Hurricane flying around the Boat at 2500 m.. so it got a free bomb run without any flak to bother it.. unacceptable.. I think that 'CrewEfficiency=false' had something to do with that, so Sensors.cfg had to go...

That's it for right now.. deploying for more missions to check out Sonar, Radar, Radar Detect, etc...

Cordialement, Duke of Earl

[Jungman]

c. SkyColors_xxx.dat... made the underwater visibility too foggy for my tastes... it is realistic fogginess, but I want a clearer underwater landscape for those Hollywood views...


No, it is in the scene.dat file. You know how to edit? I made this version with clear underwater as was original. Works fine.

Line adress--- Mod value--- Original value.

3c0: 00 00 c8 c2 --->00 00 80 c0 (-100 to -4.5)

3d0: 00 00 40 41 --->00 00 90 41 (12 to 18)


19e0: 00 00 20 41 --->00 00 70 42 LightningMinDistance (10 modded to new 60 average; 120 default)

Or upload my variation from here soon after one last test.

I think I got a fair solution for spotting problem. A combination of things. Coming Soon!

Have any notice that the 'Partly Cloudy' clouds at night go all the way to the horizon? They normaly have a black band around the perimeter. The Overcast clouds do. I wonder what that is all about?

Plus they are 'white' at night the 'Partly Cloudy' sky?? Is like an old black and white picture of the sky with no color, the clouds are lit up pure white as day time, is that normal?

UPDATE: :arrgh!: Aliantd just put a new 'Part Cloudy' tga that is more dark just yesterday. Works better. :oops:

Clear_Underwater Variation

http://rapidshare.de/files/3657479/Clear_Water_scene.rar.html

This one is correct. Please redownload if you need to. I wil have to wait on my original size bigger moon until I can get one made to add to this little Modlet.

[Manuel Ortega]

SunRadius and MoonRadius is not how big those objects are. It's the distance from the camera at wich moon or sun are placed.
They MUST be between cloud sphere and sky sphere. Otherwise, moon and sun won't be occluded by clouds, and what is more, transparencies won't work correctly, showing those objects as square polygons.

If you want to change the radius of the sun or moon, you must modify the 3d object directly.

[Jungman]

They MUST be between cloud sphere and sky sphere. Otherwise, moon and sun won't be occluded by clouds, and what is more, transparencies won't work correctly, showing those objects as square polygons.


I just found that out the hard way. I wondered what that black square was behind the moon. The moon is in front of the clouds! :doh: I did not notice it on a black night sky.

Thanks for the information, Manuel. I need to update that little variation for clear underwater fog.

It does not make the moon bigger? It looks smaller, changing the 'radius' seems to make it bigger. I guess if it is further away, it looks smaller.

I seen how Aliantd made a small version of the moon, maybe I can back engineer that technique to get the moon size back to the game's original size. :cool:

I will update that file then people can reload it without the moon change (until I get a new one).

Manuel, what tool did you use to change the size of the 3D model data in the scene.dat file and Sky? It looks all compressed to me.

[Duke of Earl]

No, it is in the scene.dat file. You know how to edit? I made this version with clear underwater as was original. Works fine.

Line adress--- Mod value--- Original value.

3c0: 00 00 c8 c2 --->00 00 80 c0 (-100 to -4.5)

3d0: 00 00 40 41 --->00 00 90 41 (12 to 18)


19e0: 00 00 20 41 --->00 00 70 42 LightningMinDistance (10 modded to new 60 average; 120 default)

Or upload my variation from here soon after one last test.

I think I got a fair solution for spotting problem. A combination of things. Coming Soon!

Thanks Jungman!... very good instructions to get clear underwater view (not that foggy underwater view is bad... it isn't... I just like to chase my torpedoes underwater :doh: ...)... I made a mistake, so I am putting the Skycolors files back in...


Have any notice that the 'Partly Cloudy' clouds at night go all the way to the horizon? They normaly have a black band around the perimeter. The Overcast clouds do. I wonder what that is all about? Plus they are 'white' at night the 'Partly Cloudy' sky?? Is like an old black and white picture of the sky with no color, the clouds are lit up pure white as day time, is that normal?

UPDATE: :arrgh!: Aliantd just put a new 'Part Cloudy' tga that is more dark just yesterday. Works better. :oops:


I don't know either , but I like to see the clouds go to the horizon... the white clouds at night is pretty strange, but I can easliy tolerate it... and, I will try out Aliantid's new cloud .tga...

Cordialement, Duke of Earl

[AlanSmithee]

Any update on the status of this mod? When can we expect to see a final version?

[Immacolata]

Read the damn thread! Status is that it is being tested. They aren't exactly making schedules for this kind of stuff.

[perdu]

i guess hight of the freecam have to bee limited...
if we go to far above the sea, , the same message as when we left the subinterrior appears(in freecam view but whe cannot return in the drawing area.

[Treeburst155]

Well now, it's good to see you geniuses are still at work on this. I wish I had the time to test for you. My boss has changed my plans. :( No SHIII for me for at least another week. Ah well, I'll be thinking of this thread often, and it will bring a smile to my face every time. Thanks for all the hard work.

Sincerely, Mike Meinecke

[AlanSmithee]

Oh, I've read the thread. Way too many times. :up: I think I've been checking it a few times a day simply in the hopes that a completed version will be out...

Read the damn thread! Status is that it is being tested. They aren't exactly making schedules for this kind of stuff.

[Gammel]

I did some testing with the sensors.cfg file
today. (Manuel Ortegas Visibility mod installed)
Im quite happy with the following values:
[SensorParameters]
; Sensors Detection Parameters

;Visual.
Visual range factor=1.9;0.5 ;[>=0]
Visual fog factor=1.5;0.85 ;[>=0]
Visual light factor=8.5;0.5 ;[>=0]
Visual waves factor=0.8 ;[>=0]
Visual speed factor=0 ;[>=0]
Visual aspect=0.9 ;[>=0]
Visual enemy speed=0.2 ;[>=0]
Visual noise factor=0 ;[>=0]
Visual sensor height factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
Visual already tracking modifier=100;600 ;[detection probability modifier], most accurate, once a contact is detected it will lose it very hard
Visual decay time=200 ;[>0] already tracking bonus decay, in seconds
Visual uses crew efficiency=false ;[true or false]

Havn´t made tests in foggy weather so far.

[CCIP]

Hmm, but aren't those the settings for your crew's abilities and not the AI's? :hmm:

[Gammel]

Yes, they are for your subs crew. Interesting file btw. Much in there to play around.
My goal is to make them spot vessles when they are visible to the player.
I have a career savegame where i´m closing to a convoy early in the morning.
With the stock file the crew spots at 17500 meters but you see the vessel at around 10000 meters. (morning, sunset).
Edit:
Just did a test with the scapa flow single mission with good results.
Patrol started at dawn, i set course hammerd in time compression and waited for results:
1. DD spotted by my crew 1 hour later, range 6000, little daylight left he didn´t saw me.
2. DD spotted by my crew after another hour, range 4500 meter, almost no daylight left, he didnt saw me.
3. DD 1 hour later, night has fallen,recognized him when he opened fire at my sub :P , not spotted by my crew at all.

Sounds good to me, will do more testing.
It seems that you have good control over your crews ability to spot something at night/dusk/dawn with the "Visual light factor" value.
I guess something around 8 here is a good value.

Edit:
8 is to high, perhaps 6-7 will be ok.
Anyone knows if there´s a single mission with bad fog in?

[Gammel]

Visual range factor=1.8 ;0.5
Visual fog factor=0.5 ;0.85
Visual light factor=6.5 ;0.5

anyone else here plays around with those values?
The above ones are best i´ve got so far. Needs much more testing...

[Jungman]

Gammel, that is about what I come up with. The problem is if you make it nerfed so they lose thier 'vampire see in the dark' vision at 17 km, it affects them during the day also.

So a ship can pop out the fog in front of you and the Watch will not see it until it rams your ship.

[Gammel]

I just did a no timecompression voyage out of Kiel Harbour at dawn.
Harbour traffic mod is installed and as always it was a great experience. Time was just at sunset, so there were good testing conditions.
I used the above values, all sea and airtraffic was spotted fine by my crew. But not too soon. Traffic was mostly visible to me before they spotted, sometimes they were faster than me.
I think with a little more tweaking to to sensors.cfg file we´ll get good results.
I also think it´s not a big problem if they miss a single ship or a plane and don´t report, for me this is realistic.
If not made any test in fog so far, but i don´t think we´ll run into problems here. Havn´t touched the fog yet., but if it behaves light the light value it sould be easy to find an optimal setting.

Manuel´s mod is an important step for the game, so we should not give up here. It´s probably just a matter of finding the right balance in the settings.

Jungman, do you have an idea what the "noise factor" value is about? I guess it has nothing to do with acoustics...

[Laffertytig]

is this mod at a level where it can be included in the upcoming rub and ops mod?

[Jungman]

Well, it seems that the visual spotting during the day and no fog is great. :)

The problem is at night they still spot at 17 km, is that realistic? :nope:

Then the devs have the other devices on your sub and the enemy AI set for the original 8 km distance -which leads to unbalance, that can be worked out, I believe.

It is the watch crew Vampire Vision at night that needs to be cut down drasticaly. But any nerf to visual, hurts the daytime spotting.

Gammel is doing the same I have done, but it nerfs both the day and night, as if the game engine does not care about night light levels for your crew, but the enemy AI vision is definitely affected by night time vision reduction.

I wish I had a tool to open the packed data in order to fix the 3D model of the moon, it is farther away and smaller. it cannot be made bigger, the TGA is already maxxed. As was said, the moon model itself would need to be made bigger.

As for the night vision, I think it is in the EXE itself. I would have thought changes to the light level as Gammel said, would reduce the watch vision at night, but it does not seem to work.? :-?

[Gammel]

Hello Jungman,

mhh, strange that it didn´t work for you.
When you do your tests, don´t use a savegame where a vessel is already spotted by the crew. You´ll get strange results.

Good mission to test the night spotting abilities of the crew is the scapa flow one.

Here are some screenshots i made with tis sensors.cfg, RUB 1.43 installed and Manuel Ortegas Mod. Nothing else changes to sh3.

1. One Mission is just started, at 70 degrees you can see the shoreline ~14KM so the visibility mod is working:
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/9127/shoreline1lh.th.jpg (http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shoreline1lh.jpg)

2. Set curse to something like this (I know it´s suicide, but just for testing:
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/3185/map6gk.th.jpg (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=map6gk.jpg)

3. Smoke on the Horizon! But this one isn´t spotted by my crew! No Vampires on board here the garlic helps alot it seems lol:
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/973/notspotted9kz.th.jpg (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=notspotted9kz.jpg)

4. But closer to the harbour entrance they spotted this guard. Their reputation is restored. The Ship is very hard to see for human eyes, so i set a mark, i also lowered brightness a little so it´s better to see:
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/3779/spotted0ol.th.jpg (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spotted0ol.jpg)

I used following values in the sensors.cfg:
Visual range factor=1.9
Visual fog factor=0.5
Visual light factor=6.45
Visual already tracking modifier=300


This is my whole sensors.cfg:


[SensorParameters]
; Sensors Detection Parameters

;Visual.
Visual range factor=1.9 ;0.5 ;[>=0]
Visual fog factor=0.5 ;0.85 ;[>=0]
Visual light factor=6.45 ;0.5 ;[>=0]
Visual waves factor=0.8 ;[>=0]
Visual speed factor=0 ;[>=0]
Visual aspect=0.9 ;[>=0]
Visual enemy speed=0.2 ;[>=0]
Visual noise factor=0 ;0 ;[>=0]
Visual sensor height factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
Visual already tracking modifier=300;600 ;[detection probability modifier], most accurate, once a contact is detected it will lose it very hard
Visual decay time=200 ;[>0] already tracking bonus decay, in seconds
Visual uses crew efficiency=false ;[true or false]

;Radar.
Radar range factor=1 ;[>=0]
Radar fog factor=0 ;[>=0]
Radar light factor=0 ;[>=0]
Radar waves factor=0 ;[>=0]
Radar speed factor=0 ;[>=0]
Radar aspect=1 ;[>=0]
Radar enemy speed=0 ;[>=0]
Radar noise factor=0 ;[>=0]
Radar sensor height factor=0 ;[>=0]
Radar already tracking modifier=10 ;[detection probability modifier]
Radar decay time=150 ;[>0] already tracking bonus decay, in seconds
Radar uses crew efficiency=false ;[true or false]

;Hydrophone
Hydrophone range factor=1 ;[>=0]
Hydrophone fog factor=0 ;[>=0]
Hydrophone light factor=0 ;[>=0]
Hydrophone waves factor=0.2 ;[>=0]
Hydrophone speed factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
Hydrophone enemy speed=0 ;[>=0]
Hydrophone aspect=0 ;[>=0]
Hydrophone noise factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
Hydrophone sensor height factor=0 ;[>=0]
Hydrophone already tracking modifier=20 ;[detection probability modifier]
Hydrophone decay time=150 ;[>0] already tracking bonus decay, in seconds
Hydrophone uses crew efficiency=true ;[true or false]

;Sonar active.
Sonar range factor=1 ;[>=0]
Sonar fog factor=0 ;[>=0]
Sonar light factor=0 ;[>=0]
Sonar waves factor=0 ;[>=0]
Sonar speed factor=0 ;[>=0]
Sonar aspect=1 ;[>=0]
Sonar enemy speed=0 ;[>=0]
Sonar noise factor=0 ;[>=0]
Sonar sensor height factor=0 ;[>=0]
Sonar already tracking modifier=20 ;[detection probability modifier]
Sonar decay time=150 ;[>0] already tracking bonus decay, in seconds
Sonar uses crew efficiency=true ;[true or false]

;Radar Warning
Radar Warning range factor=1 ;[>=0]
Radar Warning fog factor=0 ;[>=0]
Radar Warning light factor=0 ;[>=0]
Radar Warning waves factor=0 ;[>=0]
Radar Warning speed factor=0 ;[>=0]
Radar Warning aspect=0 ;[>=0]
Radar Warning enemy speed=0 ;[>=0]
Radar Warning noise factor=0 ;[>=0]
Radar Warning sensor height factor=0 ;[>=0]
Radar Warning already tracking modifier=2 ;[detection probability modifier]
Radar Warning decay time=30 ;[>0] already tracking bonus decay, in seconds
Radar Warning uses crew efficiency=true ;[true or false]

;Radio DF
Radio DF range factor=1 ;[>=0]
Radio DF fog factor=0 ;[>=0]
Radio DF light factor=0 ;[>=0]
Radio DF waves factor=0 ;[>=0]
Radio DF speed factor=0 ;[>=0]
Radio DF enemy aspect=0 ;[>=0]
Radio DF enemy speed=0 ;[>=0]
Radio DF noise factor=0 ;[>=0]
Radio DF sensor height factor=0 ;[>=0]
Radio DF already tracking modifier=2 ;[detection probability modifier]
Radio DF decay time=30 ;[>0] already tracking bonus decay, in seconds
Radio DF uses crew efficiency=false ;[true or false]

[Manuel Ortega]

For making the moon bigger you need to scale the vertices of the 3d object. Just select the moon vertices chunk in the scene.dat (they must be four vertices, with 3 xyz coordinates each = 12 floats) and multiply them by the scale factor (2x for example).

[martes86]

For making the moon bigger you need to scale the vertices of the 3d object. Just select the moon vertices chunk in the scene.dat (they must be four vertices, with 3 xyz coordinates each = 12 floats) and multiply them by the scale factor (2x for example).

¿"Vertices"? ¿No habras querido decir "vertex"? :P

Saludetes.

[shipkiller]

Are there any issues in using this mod with RUB 1.43?

[Gammel]

They are lot´s of issues even without RUB. :-j
But i can´t play the game any longer without it.

It´s worth a try, there are not so many files being replaced by the mod, make a backup of those before and you´re safe.

When you install it above RUB 1.43 your water will look a little "shine" and colourful, lower the contrast of your monitor, looks better then.

For further details ask Manuel Ortega and Jungman.
If you like make some tests with different values in the sensors.cfg file and share experiences.

[lbhskier37]

Bump, this still being looked into? What is the current status of this mod, I would really like to have correct visibility before my next patrol.

[Jungman]

My crew with visibility set for 7 and range 2, still spot ships at 17 km at NIGHT. That is not realistic at all. It has to do with the game itself. :-?

How far should a watch crew be able to see at night??

It seems the factors in sensors.cfg only slow down the detection time, but it still will detect ships from 17 km away in the darkness of midnight. :o Just not quite as fast as compared to the daytime spotting at 17 km.

This problem has been ther all along. The watch crew will spot a ship from 7 km away in the pitch black darkness. It has always been a problem, just more pronounced when seeing 17 km.

If it worked as it should, then the radar and RWR would be of value, but since they can see 17 km, they do not work correctly (unless there is fog). Play balance is destroyed. I suppose it can be tweaked in the sensors.dat file for the new fog ranges, and changes to the RWR as in the RF_Detect mod which increases the range -just for play balance sake, not reality.

[jasonb885]

...
If it worked as it should, then the radar and RWR would be of value, but since they can see 17 km, they do not work correctly (unless there is fog). Play balance is destroyed. I suppose it can be tweaked in the sensors.dat file for the new fog ranges, and changes to the RWR as in the RF_Detect mod which increases the range -just for play balance sake, not reality.

Don't have much choice. It's either that or give up the improved realism of having a sane visual range.

I guess everything will have to be tuned for playability.

[rulle34]

I did some testing with the sensors.cfg file
today. (Manuel Ortegas Visibility mod installed)
Im quite happy with the following values:
[SensorParameters]
; Sensors Detection Parameters

;Visual.
Visual range factor=1.9;0.5 ;[>=0]
Visual fog factor=1.5;0.85 ;[>=0]
Visual light factor=8.5;0.5 ;[>=0]
Visual waves factor=0.8 ;[>=0]
Visual speed factor=0 ;[>=0]
Visual aspect=0.9 ;[>=0]
Visual enemy speed=0.2 ;[>=0]
Visual noise factor=0 ;[>=0]
Visual sensor height factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
Visual already tracking modifier=100;600 ;[detection probability modifier], most accurate, once a contact is detected it will lose it very hard
Visual decay time=200 ;[>0] already tracking bonus decay, in seconds
Visual uses crew efficiency=false ;[true or false]

Havn´t made tests in foggy weather so far.

Gammel! Have you made any more testings with your settings?

Another question: What effect has the "uses crew efficiency=true ;[true or false] " do in game and why is it set to "false" in visual? What will happen if you change it to "true" instead?

[oRGy]

Jungman;

The crew can spot ships at night it seems, but can the player spot those ships to the same distance?

I'd test, but SH3 is unplayable for me due to a glitch with my system.

[Jungman]

I cannot see ships that far away at night, unless I cheat with the gamma or contrast plus brightness control cranked up.

I understand the crew can always see to the maximum range, the detect time is modified by the factors in sensors.cfg, so at night they can see to 17 km, modfied detect time by a factor.

IE. They see just as good at night as daytime for far away distance, it just takes them longer to spot. Not fully tested, but that is what it seems to be.

The watch crew have vampire vision. :roll: They always have from day one of the game. It is just that it is more noticeable when the game world vision is so much bigger.

[jasonb885]

I cannot see ships that far away at night, unless I cheat with the gamma or contrast plus brightness control cranked up.

I understand the crew can always see to the maximum range, the detect time is modified by the factors in sensors.cfg, so at night they can see to 17 km, modfied detect time by a factor.

IE. They see just as good at night as daytime for far away distance, it just takes them longer to spot. Not fully tested, but that is what it seems to be.

The watch crew have vampire vision. :roll: They always have from day one of the game. It is just that it is more noticeable when the game world vision is so much bigger.

Fortunately, the player does not have perfect vision. Unless you TDC a lock and fire with auto TDC, your crew seeing perfectly at night isn't a game ending problem, I don't think.

[Jungman]

For me, my crew seeing 17 km, or even 8 km originally, is a game ender for night time. It is not real for someone to see a ship 17 km away.

How far should a crew see at midnight on a clear sky, considering the moonlight, in reality?
:hmm:
I would like to figure a way to get the night vision down to say 4km??

The Uboats were terrified of the airplanes using radar (and leigh lights) at night swooping down and shelling them with bullets before they could dive, since they could not see them coming in time.

The game's RWR warning will not work if it is within visual range. If the visual night range was reduced to say 4 km, then the RWR will sound off. The RWR is modelled oddly in the game.

[rulle34]

Jungman:
First great thanks for nice and hard work :up:

I have some questions about the visibility mod:

1. What is the difference in sensors.dat in visibility mod_ver091 and sensors.dat in Rub 1.43?

2. Is the cameras.dat file needed or can I use i.e CCIP camera mod without spoiling any visibility? (is it connected in some way)

3. Skycolours! Is these files also connected with som visibility or can I change them to i.e Rub 1.43 or just the stockgames if I want?(without loosing any of the visibility)

4. Is your sonar, snorchel and radar mod included in this mod?

/Rulle

[Jungman]

Jungman:
First great thanks for nice and hard work :up:

I have some questions about the visibility mod:

1. What is the difference in sensors.dat in visibility mod_ver091 and sensors.dat in Rub 1.43?

2. Is the cameras.dat file needed or can I use i.e CCIP camera mod without spoiling any visibility? (is it connected in some way)

3. Skycolours! Is these files also connected with som visibility or can I change them to i.e Rub 1.43 or just the stockgames if I want?(without loosing any of the visibility)

4. Is your sonar, snorchel and radar mod included in this mod?

/Rulle

1. I did not make the Visiblilty Mod by Ortega. I do not think increased Visibility Mod is in Rub 1.43. The sensor.dat visual range was increased from stock 8 km to 10 km max; CCIP. Ortega's Visibilty Mod is set for 17.5 km.

2. Does not matter. It is just a better faster camera with more freedom. Use as you wish. If I understand you correctly.

3. I think Berry et el wish to incorparate a Rub version with the Visisbility mod. Not hard, just alot of hex editing. The Vampire night vision problem is to be solved, plus changes to fog distances nessitates changes to RWR ranges at least for gameplay sake. The Rub team would know more about it :yep: . Skycolors from Rub can be combined with the Visibility Mod, it just has not been done yet.

4. Only the sonar fix is included. 200m lock, 15 meter DC blast. in Rub 1.43. It is not in Visibility Mod.

Snorkel fix for it not being seen the size of a house is a simple 1 meter minimum height to the AI_Sensors.dat file. I do not think it was included. The changes to RWR to work with Visibility Mod has not been included. RF_Detect was a beta. After testing, the ranges for the four RWR sets should be adjusted for the fog distances to achieve more decent gameplay. Is that real? Well, if the results feel 'real' for playing is the end justifies itself.

How far should the watch crew be able to see at night?? I bet in real life it was different for ship size, fast moving airplanes using radar...

[rulle34]

Thanks for your reply Jungmann!

Just one thing I didn't understand:

4. Is your sonarfix included in visibility_mod or in Rub 1.43?

About how far you can see in darkness?

I think in a clear night, moonlight and powerful binoculars about 3000m. I refer now to a ship as a large cargoship!

This is just my guess!

[Jungman]

Sonar fix is only included in Rub. It is not in the Visibility mod.

3km? So that is close to a 4 km guess for maximium range to see at night.

[rulle34]

Sonar fix is only included in Rub. It is not in the Visibility mod.

3km? So that is close to a 4 km guess for maximium range to see at night.

I guess it'll be something like that!

[jasonb885]

For me, my crew seeing 17 km, or even 8 km originally, is a game ender for night time. It is not real for someone to see a ship 17 km away....

Then I guess the game is over unless someone can binary hack a fix in the executable.

;)

[Jungman]

Sure, except for Starforce protection will stop you. Need a EXE which has the protection removed, then we could alter it and have it work.

[oRGy]

Well can Ortega or you release a version which is compatible with RuB 1.43? So people can see whether it's to their taste or not at least. I find the discussions here a little confusing as to whether using it would mess up the sensor changes from RuB.

[oRGy]

Thanks.. Ah well, since my pc is still semi-broken for at least a week, I can't really play SH3 anyway, so I can probably wait a bit.

[oRGy]

Eh? The post I responded to just disappeared... strange.

[rulle34]

sorry! I took it away because i couldn't edit the file properly. The thing I wanted to say was that you can use visibility mod with Rub. Its just a difference in visibility range.

[martes86]

1- As far as I know, the mod is not included in the RUB.
2- I think that the camera is a special setting for testing/developement purposes only. It may disappear in a final version. :hmm:

[Beery]

...you can use visibility mod with Rub. Its just a difference in visibility range.

If it's based on the standard SH3 game files the visibility mod is definitely NOT compatible with RUb. Although all it does is change the visibility range, in doing so it alters a bunch of files that are already changed by RUb. If you just install it over RUb it will drastically alter night-time sky, bringing back the old glowing skies; it will bring back the default underwater fog distance, making underwater visibility much too great; it will remove radar fixes; and it will remove Jungman's sonar fix. All in all, adding the visibility mod to RUb would be (in my view) devastating. That's why I'm keen to see a version of this mod that's compatible with RUb. I can quite easily do the conversion myself, but I'm waiting in case there are further changes.

[rulle34]

I asked about this earlier, and I was obviously misinformed.

About Jungmann's sonar fix I thought it was in Ai_sensors, DepthCharges.sim, DepthCharges.zon and these files are not included in visibility_mod.

Nevertheless I was wrong and Im glad you corrected

Didn't mean to start misinform. That was the reason I first removed my post!

[Beery]

...About Jungmann's sonar fix I thought it was in Ai_sensors...


Ooops! You're absolutely right. Hehe, now I'm spreading misinformation. Sensors.dat only affects the radar.

[jasonb885]

Sure, except for Starforce protection will stop you. Need a EXE which has the protection removed, then we could alter it and have it work.

I know.

I was kidding.

:cool:

[oRGy]

Beery, any chance you remember what image file contains the reflections that are seen on the water again?

[Beery]

I don't think it would be in an image file. It would probably be some property of a 3D mesh.

[oRGy]

No, I definitely recall a thread where the texture was posted. I think mad-h might have posted it.

Hey! In fact, I posted a link to it...

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=34990&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=100

Its the reflex_atlantic.tga in the skycolors_atl.dat file. Did you include a version of that mod with RuB? Can't check myself because my computer has a glitch.

How does one open and edit those .dat files by the way?

-EDIT-

Back to Topic: In regards to the nightime visibility, what about sensors.cfg, does the light/visibility value in there do anything? Even at extreme values?

Secondly, if that fails, is it possible to change the weather states so that nighttime is always foggy with say max 8km visibility, or is the weather controlled independently of time? I only ask because I came across Purpulez's post here:

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=34990&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=100

..which lists skycolors for various weather/light states.

[caspofungin]

@Jungman

re sighting distance -- how about changing the parameter for visual sensor height -- i guess it depends on how the devs modelled the actual physics of sighting but it may still allow you to effectively increase the sighting range

[Gammel]

Strange...i only use the files in the env folder + the new scene.dat files of the visibility mod and have nice visibility improvement...
The first one i sorted out was the camera.dat file, cause it has a small bug with the typeIXB boat. (Camera position on bridge view)
then i found out that the mod works with just the new scene.dat and the env-colour.dat files.
Can anyone explain to me what changes where made to the other files in the mod folder?
For me the mod works fine without them. (good for RUB integration, only files overwritten are the watercolours, so only thing you lost is little eye-candy when you install over RUB and sort out the files before)

AND: :-j
My crew has never spotted a ship at night at 17KM!! Not with this mod installed, not without. Best spottings are 7km at good visibility at night, most once are at lower range.

I never played the stockgame, i use RUB from the beginning.

[Jungman]

Strange...i only use the files in the env folder + the new scene.dat files of the visibility mod and have nice visibility improvement...

....My crew has never spotted a ship at night at 17KM!! Not with this mod installed, not without. Best spottings are 7km at good visibility at night, most once are at lower range.

I never played the stockgame, i use RUB from the beginning.


then i found out that the mod works with just the new scene.dat and the env-colour.dat files.

That is maybe your mistake :cool: . The stock Visual Sensors.dat file MaxRange is set at 8 km. The RuB 1.43 is set for (40 9c 46) I think 20 km off hand??

You must use ALL files from Visibility mod, including its own special made Sensors.dat :know:

You MUST use the Sensors.dat from the Visibility Mod too because it is set for 17.5 km maximum range for visual!


RuB has not the Visibility Mod incorparated into to it yet. You are using only part of the Visibility Mod, artificially limiting your maximum spoting distance to only 8 km or maybe 10 km with RuB.

EDIT: If you are using Rub 1.43 version of Sensors.dat installed, it is set for 8 km precise to 20 km max range. You should be seeing out to 17.5 km also?? That is all the Visibility mod Sensors.dat is changed to allow a longer visual range. It is set for 17.0 km precise and 17.5 km maximum.

I have tried different numbers for precise and max range before. Unless I overlooked something. Set the precise range very low and the max range high, I need to look back into that combination. :o

[Jungman]

Secondly, if that fails, is it possible to change the weather states so that nighttime is always foggy with say max 8km visibility, or is the weather controlled independently of time?

Clever idea, but weather is time independent, except for its roughly 48 hour core cycle, plus a random wander transition from state to state. You could set the random walk time to zero and have instant weather transition meaning it occurs exactly at every '49' hours, still will not work. It will go out of syncronism.

I would enjoin others to confirm extreme changes to light factor in sensors.cfg too, to confirm my findings, I am not perfect at all. :shifty:

"Sensor Height changes"

Interesting, considering the earth radius is modelled. But using other hacks to detect the unseen ships beyond 10 km stock game, the game engine seems to only care about sensor height within the dynamic ocean area...but I digress, how would changing sensort height affect night and daytime? Unless detection is a funtion of 'surface area' exposed too, causive from the earth's radius being expanded in order to see smoke from ship at 17.5 km.

A test is place the earth's radius back to normal smaller size, now you ship will be hidden by the earth's curvature, but maybe the AI might consider the 'spotting' formula via surface area exposed at night to make a signifiacnt difference :hmm: ....Sounds like good tech BS to me for a theory to try...

[ICBM]

[...]

The first one i sorted out was the camera.dat file, cause it has a small bug with the typeIXB boat. (Camera position on bridge view)
then i found out that the mod works with just the new scene.dat

[....]
I never played the stockgame, i use RUB from the beginning.

Hey interesting, you managed to adjust the Bridgeview position (eg height and location on the bridge)? Where did you found the correct config lines?

I am trying to put the Bridgeview on the VII's down 10 cm (+- same height as crew) and forward by one meter or so to see more of the bow, providing a more imersiveness 'boat feeling' like you have in the IX's.

[FLB sale U-999]

Hi!


That is the same CCIP is triyng to do here with his great camera mod!

A more realistic and more intensive View inside and outside the UBoat!


http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=41465


Sale

[caspofungin]

"Sensor Height changes"

Interesting, considering the earth radius is modelled. But using other hacks to detect the unseen ships beyond 10 km stock game, the game engine seems to only care about sensor height within the dynamic ocean area...but I digress, how would changing sensort height affect night and daytime? Unless detection is a funtion of 'surface area' exposed too, causive from the earth's radius being expanded in order to see smoke from ship at 17.5 km.

A test is place the earth's radius back to normal smaller size, now you ship will be hidden by the earth's curvature, but maybe the AI might consider the 'spotting' formula via surface area exposed at night to make a signifiacnt difference :hmm: ....Sounds like good tech BS to me for a theory to try...

honestly, i'm not sure how the height parameter affects spotting, but if it affects the range (eg doubling the height inc the range at which your crew spots a ship) then that would allow you to inc spotting range w/out having to alter any other parameters, and then flattening out the world so you (the player) can see further would only be a superficial cosmetic alteration.

I'm just thinking out loud (so to speak) -- and i could very well be talking out of my ass. just an idea.

[Gammel]

[...]

The first one i sorted out was the camera.dat file, cause it has a small bug with the typeIXB boat. (Camera position on bridge view)
then i found out that the mod works with just the new scene.dat

[....]
I never played the stockgame, i use RUB from the beginning.

Hey interesting, you managed to adjust the Bridgeview position (eg height and location on the bridge)? Where did you found the correct config lines?

I am trying to put the Bridgeview on the VII's down 10 cm (+- same height as crew) and forward by one meter or so to see more of the bow, providing a more imersiveness 'boat feeling' like you have in the IX's.
:)
No, im not able to fix anything with a hex editor. I just use the cameras.dat file from CCIP´s camera mod together with the env-files and the scenes.dat file from Manuel Ortegas visibility mod. All that stuff installed over RUB1.43. Works great for me, only issue i have is the water reflection at night which was fixed by RUB and is now overwritten again trough the colours.dat files by Manuel Ortega.
I installed only 4 files from MO Mod:
scene.dat
SkyColors_Arct.dat
SkyColors_Atl.dat
SkyColors_Med.dat
I have nice visibility (and lower framerate lol) and the crew is spotting quite well, even with a stock sensors.cfg file.

[Vader 1]

My hats off to you gent s for the way you refuse to give up on this mod. Never say die :rock:
I have faith you guys will do it but wouldn't it be nice if the DEV threws us just one bone to help :damn:
Vader

[Gammel]

Screenies with only the env-files and the scene.dat file used
http://img351.imageshack.us/img351/108/faraway5pr.th.jpg (http://img351.imageshack.us/my.php?image=faraway5pr.jpg)
http://img351.imageshack.us/img351/4641/faraway29gm.th.jpg (http://img351.imageshack.us/my.php?image=faraway29gm.jpg)
Strange area around here between scottland and ireland...
http://img351.imageshack.us/img351/1287/strange1fq.th.jpg (http://img351.imageshack.us/my.php?image=strange1fq.jpg)

[Jungman]

They are spotting at 18.8 km and 17 km at 4:10 am in the morning.

The Rub Max visual range was set for 20 km maximum in sensors.dat so you can see to the maximium range.

Can you show me pic at the middle of night? The watch crew should NOT be able to see out to 17 km in the middle of the night, never.

Best information I have for night spotting is around 3 to 4 km maximum in reality. Of course size of ship matters and moonlight and starlight on clear night. Many time they 'heard' the sound of the DD or ship first!

I could live with 8 km, but still that is about it. I wonder if the problem is solved by setting precise range to see very low, and set maximum range to see high. :hmm:

Rub is 8 km and 20 km.

Visibility mod is set for 17.0 km and 17.5 km.

Maybe that is the problem....defines the night and daytime parameters... :yep:

[Gammel]

They are spotting at 18.8 km and 17 km at 4:10 am in the morning.

The Rub Max visual range was set for 20 km maximum in sensors.dat so you can see to the maximium range.

Can you show me pic at the middle of night? The watch crew should NOT be able to see out to 17 km in the middle of the night, never.



The shots above are from my career, it was mid-Juli and there is no real sunset at this time and place. pictures are not gamma-corrected!

This one is taken from the single mission "scapa flow"
no settings were touched! Same Gamma!
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/2533/spotnight7so.th.jpg (http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spotnight7so.jpg)
In game i can see the ship but its hard to spot on the screenshot.

Look at this ugly shiny water :dead:

[Jungman]

Ok that ship is about 5 km away. Do you ever spot ship in the dark of midnight further out to 17 km?

What is the maximum your watch crew spots a ship at dark midnight?

For Joea and others who mised this link, also in SensorPAK,

SonarDC_Snorkel_fix
http://rapidshare.de/files/3448541/SonarDC_Snorkel_fix.zip.html

[Gammel]

Ok that ship is about 5 km away. Do you ever spot ship in the dark of midnight further out to 17 km?


No,
best spottings in dark i´ve seen so far are around 7km´s

[Jungman]

"best spottings in dark i´ve seen so far are around 7km´s"

That would make sense since your precise range in Rub 1.43 is set for 8 km. Thus at night you really do not see further than that.

You know, I thinking it is the precise range must be set low, and the max range set high.

I need to retest that idea, Gammel. I think we may have discoverd the problem.

I am going to use the settings of precise range 5 km (for precise max night range) and (17.5 km max range for daytime).

The light factor of 10. And range factor of 2.

That should work, you think? Needs testing. Very similar to what you are using? :D

I think it may be the perimeter boundries.

[rulle34]

I need to retest that idea, Gammel. I think we may have discoverd the problem.

Nice work :up:

[Gammel]

Hello Jungman,

have to add i used the stock sensors.cfg file
for the postings i made the last days.
As you know i was playing around with the light factor setting in the sensors.cfg file.
But after some testing i guess the combination of the scene.dat
+ the env-colours files from Manuel Ortega, the library files from RUB1.43 and the stock sensors.cfg works pretty well.

Great if you´d succeed in lowering the night time spotting range just a little bit,
(but not too much, most of my spottings at night are 5-6 KM, and with a good calibrated monitor
you can even see the ships spotted by the crew at that range)

:up: to you Jungman for all the time you spend making the game better.

[oRGy]

So whats the divvy on this spivvy looking stuff?

[oRGy]

*Bump*

Ouch!

[Jungman]

My testing still have them seeing 15 km at mid night.

Gammel, Scapa Flora single mission you test with has light fog, which means only below 9500m.

Anyone else test this vampire night vision?

[oRGy]

Dunno, *bump*

I'm going to try and install it on top of RuB, but backup the sensors stuff first and reapply. I just can't handle the default view distance any more, it looks absurd, seeing ships "hovering" in the fog and not being able to see battleships 8km away behind the wall of fog.

[Gammel]

:up: @ oRGy

more testers are needed here.
Please post your results soon.
I play my career with the mod installed and never will go back to that 8 km limit...
The mod is at it´s best without external camera...

For me it works great with only the 3 skycolours.env files + the scene.dat installed.
Rest is stock RUB1.43, but i already wrote that, i guess ;) :)

[oRGy]

Cool, thanks for that Gammel. I'll apply the patch tonight and see how she goes.

[Beery]

Can someone tell me what are the outstanding problems with this mod now? Is it finished?

[jasonb885]

Can someone tell me what are the outstanding problems with this mod now? Is it finished?

The perfect, 15k night vision by the watch crew has not be resolved. From what I can tell, it's only possible to increase time to contact. There is as of yet no known resolution that makes ships unspottable at long distances at night by the watch crew.

That, is the outstanding issue, as I understand it.

:know:

[Manuel Ortega]

I'm stuck with that issue. I can't find how to fix the night visibility problem without getting more (worse) problems while at dawn or dusk time...

[Beery]

But this issue also occurs in the standard game too, right? So it's not really a bug. Is it?

[jasonb885]

But this issue also occurs in the standard game too, right? So it's not really a bug. Is it?

Much like the 8km issue, it's a 'feature' that prevents this mod from being considered 'complete' without a resolution.

It's been broken from day one of SH3 as far as I know, but it's very noticeable with a 20km visibility. Whether or not it'll bother people, I don't know. I just installed 0.91 last night. Got the 17km sighting during the day, but haven't played a real game to test it yet at night.

[Manuel Ortega]

But this issue also occurs in the standard game too, right? So it's not really a bug. Is it?

Exactly. But with game defaults it seems that the irreal night visibility by AI doesn't matter.

[Commander1980]

Nice view with 18km :up:

I tried to allow the AI-Ships in sim.cfg to fire beyond 8000 m (8000m works), but they won't. I also think, that the ai-units spot other ships later than the player boat. Is there a way to alter this?

[Jungman]

Yes, change the AI_Sensors.dat value for Visual from 8 km to whatever, they will see you further out and if the fire range is increased, they will take shots at you, as long as the gun shell range in the shell gun stuff is set for the max range you want.

No success in the fix for super night vision. It has been ther since day one, as others remarked above.

You could reload the game at night and daytime for two sets of sensors.dat, but that is a pain; and the weather would never change, even the AI combat 'status' will be reset.

I thought about trying to alter the value held in dynamic memory using an editor, then write a program to change on the fly...windows allocates the memory map different every time, but it could be done.

I would not know what form the data may take, I assume machine binary, if I find it, then easy to write a program so it changes on the fly dynamically without a reload. I hope it is only held in one location. :-?

[oRGy]

A sort of fix maybe would be to make crewefficency=true instead of false. When darkness arrives, you could take a couple of guys off of watch, the green bar goes down to halb and they would spot half as much. Maybe? I should try it.

Anyway my experiences:

First, don't install kriller2's landscape mod on top of it, it ****s it all up. ;)

After having it installed, on top of RuB, it seemed fine except for the fact that the crew spots everything out to 19km even at night. Now, even with the UZO I couldn't see anything out at that range. It was about 15-16km before they became visible during the day. So the crew viewing range should probably be set to 15km max as first orders.

Anyway, completed a patrol with that. The side effect of vampire-vision is to make the sonarman less useful, basically.

The glowing skies irritated me but I got rid of them through repacking the rub tga's.

So, I put in gammels values with one exception (fog factor left at 1.0 rather than what he set it to) and at night, in the Scapa Flow mission, crew didn't spot a destroyer till 2600m. That's more like it...

Unfortunately, trying it during dawn was a bit of the flop. In the custom mission "Ice Ice Baby", which is light fog (12km) with icebergs and a convoy, I was jumped by a plane which could be clearly seen miles away due to an utter lack of concern on the part of the crew. I was only aware of it after my boat got shot at.

Thats it so far.

Id experiment with values but, what the different settings in the actual sensors.cfg file do is rather ambiguous to my eyes. Can someone explain what exactly it is they do, i.e. what does each line in the visual section mean and what happens when you change it? And sensors.dat needs to be edited too? How, hex editor?

-Jungman: Your idea of writing a program sounds like a good one. As I've mentioned before on these forums, the program "Tes Optimiser" did this for the RPG Morrowind that enabled a load of features and fixed fog problems.

[kriller2]

how can my mod **** this visibility mod up? it's a graphic mod which changes the detail of the landscape and some new textures???

[jasonb885]

Here's what I've got so far using the 0.91(?) release with both the rapidshare.de rar/zip files included in the mix, too. (Did I need those?)

14:00 No Fog
Crew - 17,200
Me - No smoke until 17,000

14:06 No Fog
Crew 17,300
Me - Nada -- Just appeared like magic at 17,200 though

16:00 No Fog, Wind 15m/s
Crew - 9,400
Me - Of course

18:46 No Fog, Wind 15m/s, Dusk
Crew 17,400
Me - No smoke, started to 'rise' over the horizon at 17,200

22:26 No Fog, Wind 15m/s, Dark
Crew - 13,000
Me - No way, possible hulk at 9,000m

15:22 No Fog, Wind 8m/s
Crew - 17,300
Me - 17,100

19:54 - No Fog, Wind 8m/s
Crew - 12,500
Me 12,500

23:03 - Light Fog, Wind 3m/s
Crew - 6,800m
Me - No way (Little Norway Tug)

[Gammel]

Hello oRGy,,

thanks for posting your results.
did you made a try with the sensors.dat and camera.dat files from RUB installed over the mod?
The mod works fine for me with that setup.
So, only use the scene.dat and the 3 files in the Env folder.
Don´t install the files the library folder! or copy them back from RUB.
Can you make some tests with that setup?
I´ll repeat again, i´ve never had a night spotting at 15km.

I use the stock sensors.cfg at the moment, i can confirm your observations with the plane not spottet.

To Krillers landscape mod: I had the same problems (missing terrain textures) it´s his new terrain.cfg file that isn´t working. You can use the new textures, tey work fine with the mod, but don´t use the modified new terrain.cfg.

Thank´s for posting your detailled results too, Jason.
Could you make some testing too with the library files from RUB 1.43 and a cameras.dat of your choice?

[Jungman]

I wonder if changing the Stars Background sphere model smaller in radius, it appears at night and limits vision. Always have stars, even a cloudy night is a drawback, Ortega would have to help me there.

That did not work yet. Need to color the stars background solid black and not just transparent to black.

Trying sunlight angles and factors day/night EnvSim.act and scene.dat stuff...still testing.

Gammel
I´ll repeat again, i´ve never had a night spotting at 15km.

I use the stock sensors.cfg at the moment, i can confirm your observations with the plane not spottet.


Of course your crew never see to 17 km, the stock sensors.dat visual is set for only 8 km. :shifty: But you can still see to 17 km.

Gammel, Are you sure you have a 'no fog' night? I tried all combos of sensors.dat like you say but my crew still sees quite well to 17 km at night.

Maybe jason and others can try too. Loks like he is getting the vampire vision.

[Gammel]

I´ll do furter testing, Jungman but i´ve played my campain with the setup i discribed
(8 patrols so far) and never had a crew spotting at 15km at night.

(best i saw was 8km at night, daytime results like the ones of Jason)
There is a high probability that i run into some traffic in fog-less night isnt it? :P
What´s wrong (right?) with my setup? :-j
They spot "right in the night!" lol
(wasn´t that a song-title)
Of course your crew never see to 17 km, the stock sensors.dat visual is set for only 8 km. But you can still see to 17 km.

You got me wrong there. I wrote i use the stock sensors.cfg (which is not touched by RUB) and the sensors.dat file from RUB.


I´ll do furter testing (playing :P ) end of the week. If you like i can post screenshorts with weather reports just after spotting.
A good week to all of you!

[Jungman]

Sorry, my mistake. What values does RuB visual use in it? I thought it was set for 10 km maximum. RuB is not set up for the Visibility mod.

Someone from the RuB team could tell us what the value is for sensors.dat visual maximum? I thought it was 8 km to 20 km...or is it at 10 km? :hmm:

We need more beta testers. :yep:

[Beery]

Sorry, my mistake. What values does RuB visual use in it? I thought it was set for 10 km maximum. RuB is not set up for the Visibility mod.

Someone from the RuB team could tell us what the value is for sensors.dat visual maximum? I thought it was 8 km to 20 km...or is it at 10 km? :hmm:

I think CCIP changed those values.

[Gammel]

Hello again :)
I can´t find sleep, so i did some more testing.
And yes, more testers are needed here.

First i modified a single mission i downloaded some time ago here in the forum and modified it to fit our needs. Don´t know who was the Autor, sorry to him for stealing his work.

When you start the mission you have perfect conditions: Zero wind, fog, time is 1h after midnight, its mid june. You´ll hardly find such conditions in the real gaming world ;)
A Battleship is heading toward you, starting at a distance ~20km.

Here is it. Copy and paste, give it a name and load the game. Before start testing, double check your gamma!

[Mission]
Title=
MissionType=0
MissionDataType=0
Year=1941
Month=6
Day=1
Hour=1
Minute=0
Fog=0
FogRand=0
Clouds=0
CloudsRand=0
Precip=0
PrecipRand=0
WindHeading=0
WindSpeed=0.000000
WindRand=0
WeatherRndInterval=5
SeaType=0
Briefing=



[Unit 1]
Name=BR BB King George V#1
Class=BBKingGeorgeV
Type=11
Origin=British
Side=1
Commander=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19400601
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19401211
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=19305838.000000
Lat=3352230.000000
Height=0.000000
Heading=269.960449
Speed=15.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 1.Waypoint 1]
Speed=15.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=19289228.000000
Lat=3352276.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 2]
Name=Type VIIB#1
Class=SSTypeVIIB
Type=200
Origin=German
Side=0
Commander=1
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19380601
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19380625
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19450503
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=19288994.000000
Lat=3351818.000000
Height=0.000000
Heading=90.000008
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 2.Waypoint 1]
Speed=0.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=19292314.000000
Lat=3351818.000000
Height=-12.000000

[EditorParams]
InitLongOff=182799504.000000
InitLatOff=-26446500.000000
ZoomIndex=0

[Gammel]

So i did some tests with the setup i tried to discribed with interesting results.
Yes my crew was spotting for the first time at night at a distance i never saw them spot before: 12600 meters!
But: I saw the ship before they spotted!
I´ve made some screenshots, but ran into problems.
The jpg compression destroyed most of the important parts. I tried to modify the screenis a bit for posting them here,
but lost image information isn´t recoverable.

1. one - Mission start
http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/5898/start9ei.jpg
The enemy Battleship is at a bearing of +350. If you know where he is and your monitor and videocard is set up correct you can "nearly see him" in the game. :-j Impossible to see on this screenshot...

2. one - ship spotted.
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/8703/kontakt0ff.jpg
Clearly visible in the game now for the player (me) hard on the screeni. I tried to improve contast and marked the ship with the gimp.

3. one - give me the range, man
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/8544/kontaktentfernung6li.jpg


final words:
I have to pull back. My crew is able to spot at a distance greater than 8km, even at night.
But they did not spot better than me, the player.
Target is huge (battleship)
Conditions are perfect (never saw that in game)


For me the mod is working well. If i can see the ship, it´s good my crew is spotting at similar distance.

Here´s my game setup:
Sh3 v1.4
RUB 1.43
The scene.dat file from the visibility mod
The 3 SkyColors.dat files frome the visibility mod
of course lots of eye cand, as you can see on the screenies, but don´t think that matters here.

Question: what is a realistic spotting distance for a huge target like that battleship in these perfect conditions?
Did anyone have battlereports from the japanese early war (pre radar) navy? I read they were masters at spotting witout electronics.

Treads that had drawn my attention together with my observations here:
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=42116
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=42283



@ Beery
Please fix my water :-j

[kriller2]

hi guys, thank for working on this mod :up: I I will try look into what causes the conflict with my mod and this, The strange tihng is I am using this mod together with my terrain-mod and everything works ok? :hmm: Hope you solve the vampire eyes-thing. By the way Gammel where do you get the icons to the left of your screenshots from?, they look very nice.

[Gammel]

Hello kriller2

I use your mod too (like it very much), together with some parts of the visibily mod.
The new terrain.cfg file seems to be the problem. When i use it, i´ve missing land textures, doesn´t look good.
So i dicided to use only the .tga files (like v1.6) and all was fine again. Great textures!

The mod is called "CA_Officer_Icon_Mod", i downloaded it here from the forum (rapidshare)
Autor is captain america. I bet terrapin has hosted it already on his side.
Here is the link to the tread:
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=41661
If you can´t download it, pm me an email adress, it´s a small file and i could send it to you.

[Beery]

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/8544/kontaktentfernung6li.jpg


final words:
I have to pull back. My crew is able to spot at a distance greater than 8km, even at night.
But they did not spot better than me, the player.

Just a quick observation: this is not pure RUb 1.43. What I think you're seeing there is the stock 'glowy' water reflecting off the side of the ship. With RUb you could not see the ship at that distance because you would not see any reflection because RUb water doesn't glow. The AI crew would spot this ship well before we would because their eyesight is based on a calculation of distance plus SH3's (poorly-implemented) night light effect modifier. Thus, the mod would work fine with stock 'glowy' water - at least in terms of how the AI matches a human ability to see (although the glow probably enhances a human's ability to see to ranges well beyond the realistic), but true RUb is a completely different story. Ships are much darker in RUb's night.

[Jungman]

Good test ,Gammel. I already know what Rub 1.43 is, it was posted two pages back :know: . I was getting people to see what results they got themselves.

Rub 1.43 is 8 km and 20 km.

Visibility mod is set for 17.0 km and 17.5 km.


That is precise range and maximum range under visual for Sensors.dat. Can you confirm, Berry or CCIP? THX.

I am trying to resize the Stars Sphere background, and playing with Sunglight Angle and Factor multiplier from sun angle to horizon. The first will stop all sight at night as soon as rig for red comes on. The second will make the sun angle above and below the horizon more pronounced, individually. Rather odd stuff, but desperate.

I wonder if it is possible to use a memory editor to change the visual on the fly?

[oRGy]

I've made some tests too! More detailed, will post them up in a few hours.

However, I think I've made a discovery - I'm pretty sure that applying the visibilty mod in a campaign ****s up the sighting in the campaign, and you have start a new career!

As I was getting reasonable values in single missions with stock RuB values. When I loaded my career (from inbase) I'm getting 19200m at night.

BTW Beery, changing the glowy water - I'm using the RuB non-glowy water now with vismod - doesn't change the visibility of the ships. In fact they should be visible that distance but as silhouttes against a lighter sky, as mentioned earlier the game has it ass-backwards.

[Beery]

BTW Beery, changing the glowy water - I'm using the RuB non-glowy water now with vismod - doesn't change the visibility of the ships. In fact they should be visible that distance but as silhouttes against a lighter sky, as mentioned earlier the game has it ass-backwards.

Players who are not using the RUb water will definitely experience a change in the visibility of ships at night. RUb's ships have less reflectivity, so they will not be as bright in darkness. This was a property added to RUb's ships the second time the water was adjusted - when the 'glowy' water was removed and when wakes were darkened.

[oRGy]

Which file edited the reflectivity of the ships? Do you mean the ambient light brightness or something?

[Beery]

Which file edited the reflectivity of the ships? Do you mean the ambient light brightness or something?

That's it! Ambient light.

[oRGy]

Ah, you edited the ambient light, ok! But which file and values did you use to edit it?? Or did you use the SH3 Color Inspector?

[Beery]

Ah, you edited the ambient light, ok! But which file and values did you use to edit it??

I don't remember if it was a case of me actually editing the ambient light. The thing is, every time you edit anything in the EnvColors_***.dat files it alters other values, sometimes drastically. It may have been the ambient light value that I altered in order to reduce the wake brightness - I really don't remember all that clearly. I only really recall that it was a job I don't ever want to have to do again, LOL. What I do remember is that whatever I did, it did change the visibility of the boat (and presumably therefore the visibility of every ship). I remember it because it was one of those unforeseen things that always pop up when adjusting those files, so it kept me up into the small hours trying to balance it.

[oRGy]

You must have done with version 1 of the color inspector then - v2 allows you to edit the light conditions for all the different states individually.

Anyway I changed the waterlight version down... so not sure. Anyhow in reality on a clear light the sky would have been brighter than it is in sh3, its only when cloudy you wouldn't see anything...

Anyway will post up my test results later.

[Beery]

You must have done with version 1 of the color inspector then - v2 allows you to edit the light conditions for all the different states individually.

No. This was a value that wasn't covered in either colour inspector. It was well after the colour inspectors had come out. This value had to be changed by hex editing. I do seem to remember that pretty clearly.

[oRGy]

Really? Then what was the actual file? Was the file skycolorsatl.dat, for example?

If not, then the visibility mod wouldn't affect your ambient light. If it does, then if you can provide the variable you edited I can test it.

[Beery]

Really? Then what was the actual file? Was the file skycolorsatl.dat, for example?

If not, then the visibility mod wouldn't affect your ambient light. If it does, then if you can provide the variable you edited I can test it.

I did alter skycolorsatl.dat very significantly (the night reflection colours have been very much darkened), but I just don't remember what caused the ambient light to change. All I recall is that it did change, and that I had to counteract for the sub being less visible. Anyway, there is an ambient light value in EnvColors_***.dat, so it can presumably change via that. However, a quick look just told me that, in RUb, this value appears to be unchanged from the standard file.

One thing I know I changed (looking back at my notes) was the Shipwakeabovewater colour in EnvColors_***.dat.

[oRGy]

Thanks for the info.

When you say you had to "counteract for the sub being less visible", what do you mean exactly?

[Beery]

Thanks for the info.

When you say you had to "counteract for the sub being less visible", what do you mean exactly?

That's the problem. I don't remember. I remember seeing that the sub appeared darker, and I remember that I tried to do something about it. I don't remember anything else and it's not in my notes.

Oh, just a sec. Looking at my notes again, it does say 'halve ambient light at night'. I'm not sure if that was done, or if it was something I tried to do to tone down the wake brightness.

Anyway, differences to look for are, in EnvColors_***.dat:

Shipwakeabovewater
AmbientLightcolour

Both of these would be the 'full night' values only.

In SkyColors_***.dat, I unpacked the image files and in the 'reflection' file I used Photoshop to darken the full night image by somewhere between 50 and 80%.

[oRGy]

Right... well the ambient light is ok for me at the moment, so I'll not mess with it. It shouldn't affect the crew ai sensing range though should it? That's what we're interested in primarily.

[Beery]

Right... well the ambient light is ok for me at the moment, so I'll not mess with it. It shouldn't affect the crew ai sensing range though should it? That's what we're interested in primarily.

It won't affect the AI at all, but it will affect our ability to see a lot. The idea with the AI is to get it to just about compare with a human's ability, but if a human's ability varies wildly depending on what ENV colours files we're using, it's going to be impossible to get the AI to match. That's basically my point.

[oRGy]

OK:

To test out the visual sensing range of the AI with the visibility mod enabled precisely, I set up some custom missions set at different times of day and with varying weather conditions.

First, I wanted to test out Gammel's tweaks to sensors.cfg that he lists earlier in this thread. Albeit with one change of my own - I left the fog factor to 1 rather than 0.5. The setting of 0.5 made them see maybe 10% further, but also allows your crew to spot ships through fog, which is silly.

In the first missions, I set up a Coastal Merchant, 21km away from the Uboot, angle of bow 180, stationary. I then just accelerated towards it and noted the time the crew spotted it, as well as noting when I could actually see it. Several tests I re-ran to get a battery of figures. Results:

<u>Gammels Settings</u>
Daytime (12pm), No Fog.
Ship spotted at:
11,100 m
11,200 m

Visually, I could start just about seeing this at about 15km. Nevertheless, this is an ok figure.

Nightime (12am), No Fog.
Ship spotted at:
5,200 m
8,900 m
9,500 m
4,600 m

Sort of realistic, but quite random. I could visually see the ship at night at about 11km.

Night, Light Fog.
Ship spotted at:
1,600 m
-1,500 m
2,500

The minus sign on the second figure means that it was only after I'd past the merchant and it was 1500m behind me that the crew spotted it. Visually, I could see ships from 3-4000m. Very random, and not at all realistic.

Day, Heavy Fog.
Ship spotted at:
200m

Since you can see the ship easily at 600m, this is really nerfed.

Night, Heavy Fog.
Ship spotted at:
N/A

Ship wasn't spotted at all, despite being clearly visible at 300m.

Conclusion:
Gammels values that he posted in this thread are clearly unusable. Time to test with the RuB defaults.

<u>RuB Defaults.</u>
Daytime, No Fog.
Ship spotted:
11,300 m
11,300 m (512x)
11,300 m (1024x)

This is more like it - and a surprise. As in earlier posts Jungman stated that with the visibility mod enabled his crew were spotting up to 19,200m during the day, straight away. Odd. And in fact, this was the case in my career save I had going before I ran these tests. I even restarted the computer, to check no values were lying in memory - and got the same results. I also checked with various time compression options, from 256x to 1024x, and got the same each time.

Night, No Fog.
9,400 m
9,500 m
9,800 m
9,400 m
7,000 m
10,400 m

Well, that's interesting. The values are generally realistic, the crew spotted the ships when I could. It seems at night the SH3 detection algorithm is to make detection chancier - as was probably the case in reality. Regardless, these figures seemed acceptable to me - a straight 10% reduction at a minimum, and not the 19km vampire vision reported by Jungman! Again, my career had different results - vampire vision with no garlic in sight - and I began to get suspicious.

Day, Light Fog.
Ship spotted:
8,800 m
8,800 m
9,600 m
9,500 m
9,100 m
9,400 m

This seemed perfectly reasonable. After 11k, the ship becomes almost impossible to see. Remember we're seeing a coastal merchant with her ass turned to us.

Night, Light Fog.
Ship spotted:
7,800 m (256x)
4,300 m (1024x)
6,300 m (1024x)
5,700 m (256x)

Not much to say here: other than the light reduction means a chancier detection rate and a 10-15% reduction in sight.

Day, Heavy Fog.
Ship spotted:
600m (256x)
600m (1024x)

All is correct here, as it should be - these fog distances aren't changed from normal.

Night, Heavy Fog.
Ship spotted:
N/A

Ship was not spotted at all. I hear this is common behaviour, though.

Well, these values seemed reasonable to me, if a little on the high side for night. But then, I haven't read any primary data on how far uboot crews could spot a ship at night.

All I know is that SH3 does an incredibly crap job at simulating the sea and sky at night, making the sky appear far darker than it was in reality and the sea far brighter, while the moon casts *no* light, which is a really stupid mistake. And with Ail's clouds (and I believe, with the stock ones), the clouds appear grey at night, even with no moon! Which is absurd unless you're a big city dweller and don't know what a real night looks like. ;) Thus players may have the impression that detecting ships at night was harder than it was in reality.

Most interesting was that these values were at variance with Jungman's reports and my own experience in the career after enabling the visibility mod. This leads me to the conclusion that the campaign saves the sensor data in some sort of way, freaking out when you edit them and reload the career save, whether you save in port or not. I haven't started a new campaign to test this conclusively though, not yet.

Anyway, I decided to re-run the tests but with a Revenge Class BB at an AOB of 90 (side on) to replace the coastal merchant.

<u>Battleship, RuB Sensor Settings</u>
Day, No Fog.
Ship spotted:
19,700m

Aha! So the spotting is heavily influenced by AOB and ship size, which is good. What's not good is that I couldn't see the BB at all until 16,400m. Not even smoke, though it was stationary I guess.

Night, No Fog.
Ship spotted:
15,300m
17,500m

Visually I could only spot the BB at 15,300. Whether these values are realistic or not I have no idea. A Revenge class is a pretty big silhoutte. Certainly, again, they're somewhat reduced from daytime values.

Day, Light Fog.
Not tested, because of user error! Presumably would be 12,500m, which is the max distance with light fog.

Night, Light Fog.
6,000m

I could spot this visually at about 9,000m.

So, conclusions:

1) The RuB sensors seem to work in single missions at least, perfectly reasonably in gameplay terms. Except in one respect - with no fog, a ship can be spotted before a player can see anything. I suggest that the ABSOLUTE maximum view the AI's see to be set to around 16,500. Currently this seems to be set to 20km. This is in sensors.dat, I believe. Can Jungman confirm? I'd like to change the appropriate value and would appreciate info.

2) My thesis that the new values only work when you start a new career needs to be tested, nevertheless I have a feeling this is what was causing Jungman's vampire vision results.

3) Further tests need to be made in regard to changing the light factor value in sensors.cfg and seeing if this results in more realistic spottings at night. This I will do maybe tonight but more likely in a couple of days; I'm in the throes of moving house and am very busy.

4) The night sky is completely at odds with reality and badly needs to be fixed. See my other thread.

[oRGy]

BTW, As a postscript to Beery's earlier post:

Since you changed the AmbientLight value in EnvColours_xxx.dat's, this means that your ambient light change in Rub remains unaffected by the the Visibilty Mod, which only changes the skycolors_xxx.dat files. As mentioned, I fixed the glowing water by reimporting the RuB sky reflections into the .dat's. So now it should be just RuB but with 19km view distance.

[Beery]

I've tested the scene.dat changes in my version of the game (RUB 1.43), and I don't see anything wrong with that except the spotting distance - as has been established here, the AI spots much farther out than we can see, and it screws up the other sensors.

Can someone explain to me exactly what changes the following files make:

Sensors.cfg.
The three Skycolors files.
Cameras.dat.
Sensors.dat.

Because I don't really see what their use is.
Plus, is there no way of getting rid of the horizon fog other than by changing the Earth radius (it looks like that's what was changed in the scene.dat file)? It seems kind of drastic to me.

[oRGy]

Hi;

Sensors.cfg contains the values for the algorithms SH3 uses for your crews sensing abilities.

The 3 skycolors files, as you probably know already, contain sky and water reflection textures, and I believe some sort of cloud mapping information - when I tried to use the stock RuB skycolor files with the vismod, the clouds disappeared.

Cameras.dat isn't visibility mod related.

Sensors.dat contains lots of info but most relevant is that I believe (according to Jungman anyway) it contains the maximum distance your crew can spot to. In RuB, this seems to be set to 20km. It also contains some info on maximum height planes can be spotted which is interesting, but by the way.

The main tweaks in order to make this mod good to go are:

1) Change sensors.dat to make the maximum crew spotting range 16km. The game doesn't render anything beyond that distance.

2) Alter the sensors.cfg values to make the lightfactor slightly more important.

Would have a go at doing these, but I'm moving house at the moment, its all a bit of a mess...

[oRGy]

I did a couple more tests.

As before, BB Revenge class, 20km away, broadside.

This time I decided to tweak the light factor value in sensors.cfg. This should affect how lack of light affects the crews spotting ability. Note that I, the player, could only see the ship visually at about 14km, its too dark. Further, the game doesn't render anything beyond 16.5km...

Night, No Fog, Light factor 0.8 (default)
Ship spotted:
17,200m
17,900m
15,000m
12,200m
13,500m

Night, No Fog, Light factor 1
Ship spotted:
12,700m
13,600m
19,600m
19,700m
14,600m
19,500m (!)
15,100 (1024x)
12,800 (1024x)

Night, No Fog, Light factor 0.5
Ship spotted:
19,000m
14,500m
16,000m
15,200m
18,700m (1024x)

Conclusions:

Seems to be a high degree of randomness at night spotting. Setting the light factor to 1 seemed to give a good result at first, but then I got sightings at 19,700. Odd. Setting at 0.5 results in the ship being spotted earlier, no doubt of that. Time compression also seems to be a factor in spotting; in marginal situations, having the time compression at 1024x decreases the range at which your crew will spot, generally speaking.

So I need to do more tests. However I'm a bit lost in scene.dat and sensor.dat editing, I have a hex editor but am unfamiliar with the procedure.

[Hitman]

1) Change sensors.dat to make the maximum crew spotting range 16km. The game doesn't render anything beyond that distance.

Dunno if it has been mentioned here (Sorry, no time to read the whole 16 pages of this thread backwards :P , so ignore if already mentioned), but 16000metres max rendering distance is 100% correct for a U-Boot. Explanation: The conning tower lies so low on the water that earth's curvature will not allow you to see behind that any ship or his masts, even the tallest ones. BUT what the U-Boot crews did see in WW2 at nearly 25-30.000 metres was in fact the smoke plumes of the convoys, floating in the air some 40-50 metres (or even more-depends on the wind) above the convoy. So as long as you can have the ships be rendered till 16000 metres and the crew detect smoke till 30000 metres (Both in optimal visibility conditions) you are historically correct :up:

[oRGy]

Yeah, but I don't think the game renders the smoke either. In any case having a crew occasionally see out beyond 16km at night is just impossible.

[Gammel]

I´ve made a combination of Beery´s new water and Manuels mod.
Here´s the readme:
This is a combination of the increased
visibility mod by manuel Ortega and the
Beery water mod 1.44 made by Beery.
The .tga file files from Beery water mod
were imported to the .dat files of Manuels mod.
So you have increased visibility and no ugly shiny water ;)
All credits go to Manuel Ortega and Beery, i only modified their work.

greetings
Gammel
http://rapidshare.de/files/4635080/Vis_mod_RUB_compatible.rar.html

[kriller2]

Hi, I have tried to make my terrain mod compatible with the visibility mod.

http://rapidshare.de/files/4647122/Terrain_upgrade_v2_1.rar.html

I allso made the snow more white, after suggestions from kpt. Lehman.

Will someone test to see if there still are problems with this mod and the visibility mod?

This is the correction I made in terrain.cfg:
TexTilesPerKM=3 (was 6 before)

I think it's a shame if people start to use my mod without the terrain.cfg, because I allso made some corrections to the transparency of the textures so they blend better together.

/Kriller

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Thanks Kriller and Gammel. I will try both out together when I get a few moments later.

[rulle34]

I´ve made a combination of Beery´s new water and Manuels mod.
Here´s the readme:
This is a combination of the increased
visibility mod by manuel Ortega and the
Beery water mod 1.44 made by Beery.
The .tga file files from Beery water mod
were imported to the .dat files of Manuels mod.
So you have increased visibility and no ugly shiny water ;)
All credits go to Manuel Ortega and Beery, i only modified their work.

greetings
Gammel
http://rapidshare.de/files/4635080/Vis_mod_RUB_compatible.rar.html

Hello Gammel
I just installed your mod over Rub 1.43 and I discovered a slight yellow fog/smoke (looked like) I haven't tryed just Beery's water mod 1.44. Just installed the newest catalysator drivers.
I don't know why this is appearing. Anyone else notice this?
I really want this combined mod to work!

[Gammel]

hi rulle,
can you post a screenshot?
Anyone else tried the mooded mod so far? ;)

Hi kriller2,
nice you made an updated version, i´ll start testing now.

[Gammel]

good news kriller2,

seems the landscape mod works well now together
with the visibility mod. No more missing textures, at least on my setup.
:up:

Can anyone confirm the problem rulle34 has?
I checked the modded files again, i use exact the same setup.

[kriller2]

sounds good! :) , I was hoping it was the double tiles pr/km. that was causing the problem.

It would be a shame if these two mods couldn't function together :up:
/Kriller

[rulle34]

hi rulle,
can you post a screenshot?

Hello again Gammel :)
Here come some screen shots.
It was difficult to see these slight yellow "fog" on the images, but try to zoom then you should see. It looks more obvious in game. And it's not all over the screen, it's just like fog, some here and there.
I'll try later to reinstall the old drivers for monitor, see if that was the reason.


http://usera.imagecave.com/rulle34/SH3Img3-9-2005_10.23.41_859.bmp.jpg

http://usera.imagecave.com/rulle34/SH3Img3-9-2005_10.23.57_765.bmp.jpg

http://usera.imagecave.com/rulle34/SH3Img3-9-2005_10.23.5_109.bmp.jpg

Here you have the links to the pics (for better zooming):

http://usera.imagecave.com/rulle34/SH3Img3-9-2005_10.23.41_859.bmp.jpg
http://usera.imagecave.com/rulle34/SH3Img3-9-2005_10.23.57_765.bmp.jpg
http://usera.imagecave.com/rulle34/SH3Img3-9-2005_10.23.5_109.bmp.jpg

[Gammel]

this a a typical "nighttime" tread. :-j
Can´t see anything on that screenies :)
I did some gamma-correction on one of your screenshots, but still don´t get it. Looks fine to me.
Here´s your screenshot:

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/958/gamma4jl.jpg

Do you mean that line on the horizon? It´s always there with the visibility mod (unmodded mod also) but it only appears in some special light conditions.

[rulle34]

It looks more clear in game though. :oops:

Use my links, save the image and then zoom in. You should then see this "fog" better! About that horizon in vixibility mod? What is that?

If I understand you correct, you use Beery's water mod 1.44 and then add the scene.dat from the visibility mod? No other changes?

I can't see why merging the scene.dat should make this blurriness for me?

Haven't tried the older display drivers yet!

[Gammel]

The .tga files from beerywater 1.44 were extracted and merged
into the .dat files from Manuels mod.
You can do this with timetrvellers dat extractor.


The screens from the links were even darker. Here is a gamma-modified one. Still can´t see the problem :( :oops:
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/526/gamma33gx.jpg

Is the problem there when you use the original beery water mod 1.44? try this first.
are you using a sky mod? Is the problem there in daytime?if so can you post a screenshot with a daylight scene?

edit
Here´s a shot from my setup (same files, i double checked) it looks some kind of cleaner in the sky areas...The screenshot is also slightly gamma corrected, but not so heavy i did with yours.
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8742/bumm3mh.jpg
in my game it looks very similar like that shot, just a little darker.
I guess gamma is set up correct, when you can see a slight difference between sky and see (with beery water 1.44, no matter if visibility mod installed or not) Can you post a daytime and a gamma corrected nightime screen, just as it looks to you in thze game? If you´re on ati, set your 3d gamma to 1.35 in the driver options. Seems a good value.

[rulle34]

Big thank's for you trying to help me out of this :up:
What I can see on your screen-shot it has the same "fog" as mine. It's quite clear seen just under the exploding ship and left of the watchman. I guess it should be like this.... :hmm:

I have a ATI X800XT card and will now try your mod with your recommended gamma settings

[rulle34]

Just tried with gamma 1.35 and "only" Beery watermod 1.44 and it was still there but not so much of it.

I'll go with your mod and pretend there is morning fog on the water :P

Thanks anyway for your help Gammel :up:

Just one question: Would it be the same mod like yours if I use Beery's watermod 1.44 and add scene.dat from ortegas visibility mod? If not, what would be the difference?

[Gammel]

the 3 skycolors.dat files in the Env folder are essential for the increased visibility working. With only the scene.dat file it won´t work.

Can´t give you more details about the changes he made to the files, but sure it was some kind of that mystical hex stuff... :-j

[rulle34]

the 3 skycolors.dat files in the Env folder are essential for the increased visibility working. With only the scene.dat file it won´t work.

Can´t give you more details about the changes he made to the files, but sure it was some kind of that mystical hex stuff... :-j

That's interesting!
Now I understand better!
Thank's :up:

[Soviet_Warlord]

So..... without forcing me to read the entire thread, can someone tell me what is currently going on? I hear things about a visibility mod... is it complete?

Thanks for any info.. I'm very curious but I don't have much time... to read 17 pages...

[oRGy]

My progress:

I am a bit confused by the complicated algorithm SH3 uses for determining when your crew spot ships. For gameplay purposes, a simpler one would have been better.

Regardless, I've changed the sensors.dat to have a maximum view distance of 16km. On a clear night, the crew will still occasionally see out to that distance which is probably wrong, but its an acceptable compromise given every other situation seems to work properly.

I'll put the visibility mod and all my changes into the Improved U-Boat mod.

[Immacolata]

Ill be looking forward to that oRGy. Perhaps it is time to let the old U-94 out of her berth again.

[jasonb885]

So..... without forcing me to read the entire thread, can someone tell me what is currently going on? I hear things about a visibility mod... is it complete?

Thanks for any info.. I'm very curious but I don't have much time... to read 17 pages...

It's not.

Read the thread for details as I don't have time to explain 17 pages of text to you.

Thanks.

[rulle34]

A question about Ortegas visibility mod.
Does it affect range for sighting aircraft too? Because my watch spotted a aircraft at 13600m. (daytime)

[Duke of Earl]

Answer: Yes, most definitely.... x2 or x3 over vanilla spotting ranges (depends on daylight & overcast).... and I am most grateful for that when I'm pleasure cruising in Biscay... :lol:

The higher the aircraft, the further it will be spotted.... the lower the aircraft, the closer.

Tip: Wellingtons fly low, Sunderlands fly high.

Cordialement, Duke of Earl

[rulle34]

Answer: Yes, most definitely.... x2 or x3 over vanilla spotting ranges (depends on daylight & overcast).... and I am most grateful for that when I'm pleasure cruising in Biscay... :lol:

The higher the aircraft, the further it will be spotted.... the lower the aircraft, the closer.

Tip: Wellingtons fly low, Sunderlands fly high.

Cordialement, Duke of Earl

Thank's Duke of Earl!

[Gammel]

I´ve tried new values for the sensors.cfg file
Visual range factor=1.7
Visual fog factor=1
Visual light factor=1.2

whith the range factor value you have a huge influence on the daylight spotting range, with a value above 2 my crew spotted the battleship in the test mission i´ve posted here before only at ~13000
(i set the time to daytime in the mission file)

I´m away from a high light factor value as i posted before (problems with zero spottings), the range factor has also hugh influence on the nightime spotting ability of the crew.

The worst thing for testing is the strange randomess with the spotting.
I hope with the posted values the nightime spotting visibility will drop clearly under 10000 meters, some tests looks promising.

Here´s an example for the randomness other posters noticed too.

same values in the sensors.cfg file (others than above), mission started 3 times at nightime.

Crew spotted ship

-at 2500 (!) meters
-at 12200 meters
-at 9500 meters

during real game the randomness doesn´t look that worse to me, but testing so is incredible time intensive.

So could anyone play his campaign game with the visibility mod
and this new values for the sensors.cfg file and post results here?
make a backup before or comment out the stock values it´s a little change to a textfile only.

[oRGy]

I'm almost beginning to wonder by my campaign experience whether some other factors have an effect.

What about the angle of bow effect for example? Perhaps that has a greater effect than it would in reality?

Methinks Ubisoft have made their algorithm too complicated - a simple one like in Aces of the Deep would have worked better, with an absolute range at which ships are always spotted, and this is then modified by fog and light factors only.

Anyway, nerfting the detection distance in sensors.dat to 16km is ok for me at the moment. Would like to test some more values Gammel but I'm moving house and busy preparing a beta version of "Improved U-Boat". Keep us updated though.

[rulle34]

Is there a sensors.dat file that is nerfed to 16 km?

I think Ortega's sensors.dat in the visibility mod is set to 20 km. Correct me if Im wrong!

If my suggestions are right, does someone have a nerfed sensors.dat to send or link for a DL? I hope this nerfed sensors.dat is compatible with Rub 1.43


I hopw I wasn't to blurry now :lost:

[Gammel]

Hi rulle34

oRGy has such a file but refused to release it so far :-j

[rulle34]

Hi rulle34

oRGy has such a file but refused to release it so far :-j

Hello again Gammel!
OK! Some reason not to???

[Gammel]

I guess he want to include it in his upcoming mod.
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=42469

But i´m sure he´ll send it to you if you ask.


Ok i´ll ask for you:

"Hello oRGy, rulle34 and me would like to beta-test your
sensors.dat file!" :yep: :-j

[rulle34]

Ok i´ll ask for you:

"Hello oRGy, rulle34 and me would like to beta-test your
sensors.dat file!" :yep: :-j

Thank's Gammel :()1:

[vils]

this is the ultimate mod, i reinstalled the entire game too for dedicated use of this vis-mods, and the game really has a new meaning now. By far the most important mod since birth of sh3..

Great work and super thanks!!

[oRGy]

Errr... don't think I'm refusing to release the version of scene.dat on my pc - just have been busy moving house and putting IUB together!

I'll try to put a copy - like a standalone mod - to terrapins site tomorrow.

[Gammel]

sorry oRGy, i was just kidding... :-j

[Nippelspanner]

Mh, im using an older version of this visibility mod, its so great, but the water is too foggy. is there a version with "clear" (default) water? would love to see the new ocean floor mod ;)

[rulle34]

Mh, im using an older version of this visibility mod, its so great, but the water is too foggy. is there a version with "clear" (default) water? would love to see the new ocean floor mod ;)

Yes there is! Jungmann has made a version with clear water.
You find it on page 12 in this thread.
Here is the link: http://rapidshare.de/files/3657479/Clear_Water_scene.rar.html

I think this will be a "must have" for those who want to use the visibility mod and the new ocean floor_mod!

[Beltza]

You can find a patch to solve this at the 24 Flotilla:

http://www.24flotilla.com/Descargas/sh3/24descargas.html

The direct link:

http://www.24flotilla.com/Descargas/sh3/scene.zip

Good hunt!

[Nippelspanner]

wow, great! thx :up:

[rulle34]

How is the situation with the visibility mod? Is it down or still in progress?

[rulle34]

I bump this again!
My latest configuration http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=43209 is giving me spottings at 16000m daytime and 4000-9000m nighttime (clear weather both) I think that's quite ok. Maybe some tweaking from there can improve it further? I haven't tried Gammels settings yet. Maybe this will bring down the nightvisibility even more.
I hope the work and progress in this mod is still alive? :-?

[rulle34]

I :oops:

[Jungman]

Rulle34,

If you have a decent package now, do you want me to change your Sensors.dat file in your Mod so the RWR works better?

The RWR radar detector ranges need increased in order to work properly due to the increased visibility and fog ranges.

Plus this will help with Gammel's Sensors.cfg modded setting for night time spotting. If the crew does not randomly see the ship within a few km, the RWR will go off to alert you. This will 'solve' the real bad spotting at night -the RWR will be a back up.

[oRGy]

Cheers rulle34 - I d/led the package and noticed that in Iub v1(Beta) I didn't even include a custom sensors.cfg file!

:doh:

Jungman - I doubled the range for the RWR in sensors.dat for IuB - but if you could check the IuB version out and let me know if there's anything missing or wonky about it, it would be great. (If you have the time.)

[Jungman]

Cheers rulle34 - I d/led the package and noticed that in Iub v1(Beta) I didn't even include a custom sensors.cfg file!

:doh:

Jungman - I doubled the range for the RWR in sensors.dat for IuB - but if you could check the IuB version out and let me know if there's anything missing or wonky about it, it would be great. (If you have the time.)

What exactly is IuB? and where can I d/l it to check it out?

I would not use double range. I did the first time for a beta and it is too much range. Go for a more mellow increase to maximum of 16 km (the same range as the DD best radar units) and stays with the visibility range of crew.

The fog ranges are about 600m, 4500m, 9000m for heavy, medium, and light.

So you want your RWR to be beyond that value with increaseing performance for gameplay sake.

From RF_Detect2 Mod readme.

Metox: 4km range @ 15 sec sweep Old
Metox: 8km range @ 15 sec sweep New

Borkum: 5km range @ 15 sec sweep Old
Borkum: 10km range @ 10 sec sweep New

Naxos: 7.5km range @ 15 sec sweep Old
Naxos: 15km range @ 10 sec sweep New

Tunis: 10km range @ 15 sec sweep Old
Tunis: 20km range @ 5 sec sweep New

A better range would be taking the new 16 km vision and fog into account,

Metox: 4km leave alone. Good for Heavy fog, but not Medium fog range visual.

Borkum: 5 km to 8 km. Good to for past Medium fog, but less than Light fog visual range.

Naxos: 7.5 km to 12 km Good for past light fog but not max visual.

Tunis: 10 km to 16 km. Good to max visual range and all fog. Hydrophones will still be useful to detect a ship out to 20 km without the RWR picking it up for you.

[rulle34]

Rulle34,

If you have a decent package now, do you want me to change your Sensors.dat file in your Mod so the RWR works better?

The RWR radar detector ranges need increased in order to work properly due to the increased visibility and fog ranges.

Plus this will help with Gammel's Sensors.cfg modded setting for night time spotting. If the crew does not randomly see the ship within a few km, the RWR will go off to alert you. This will 'solve' the real bad spotting at night -the RWR will be a back up.

Hello Jungmann! :sunny:
Those changes so the RWR will work better is very welcome and will be very nice. :up:
Do you think I should make any changes in sensors.cfg also? And in that case, what should be changed?


Cheers rulle34 - I d/led the package and noticed that in Iub v1(Beta)

Hello oRGy!
What is "Iub v1(beta)"?

[kriller2]

Moon bug with visibility mod:
I have just painted the moon with the bacjground colour in psp, which resulted in the moon not having the square around it, but the result is allso not having any moon... :roll: but thats better than a purple square I think...

[rulle34]

Im using the "HI_REZ_MOON" and it works fine so far. Just a minor error. Only thing is the size. Why do you get this strange square around? Never seen that before.

[caspofungin]

let me try to understand -- Jungmann's 16km visibility mod increases the visual spotting range but then the RWR are screwed because the default is set to work at a vis range of 8km. RWR in the Sensor.pak have increased ranges. Correct so far?

So where can we get a sensor.dat file that includes both the visibility range increase as well as altered RWR? Or is it still a work in progress?

[rulle34]

Jungmann is in work with RWR fix for 16 km visibility mod.

[Jungman]

Yes, I am still getting to change the Sensors.dat file from Rulle34 version so you have a much better working RWR detection for passive radar from enemy ships and airplanes.

Indeed even the active radar could stand to be increased, but I have not looked into that yet.

So I been a bit busy lately, I will get it finished. It has to do with the increased visual range trumpting the RWR so it does not work all that well, if at all. THe RF_Detect2 works well, but needs to be toned down more for Rulle34 version.

As for the moon, I tried making a larger texture a long time ago when the Vis Mod came out, it did not work either. It is because the moon is placed in orbit further away from 900 to 1800, and looks small due to perspective.

Only real fix is to change the moon's ball 3D sphere vertexes in scene.dat (but which set of 12 I have no idea x,y,z *4 data = 12 numbers). As was stated in the 'High resolution' thread.

[Gammel]

great to see you working on this too, Jungman :up: :up:

[rulle34]

Hello Jungmann
Take your time. I know you're doing a very good job :up:

[Jungman]

Rulle34 here is the Sensors.dat from the Mod with the RWR values added. Check it out with a Uboat in different fog thickness and RWR detectors.

I changed them as above. Also in readme.

Getting an upgrade. Link removed.
-------------------------------
Sensors.dat with 16 km maximum visual range for crew. Added better lock-on for periscope and UZO, Added longer range for RWR passive radar detectors. This is more in line with the increased fog distances and visual sensors overriding the RWR.

Vis mod has fog at 600m, 4500m, 9000m for heavy, medium, and light fog.

Metox: 4km left alone. Good for heavy fog.
Borkum: 5km to 8km. Good through medium fog distance.
Naxos: 8km to 12km. Good through light fog distance.
Tunis: 10km to 16km. Good through max visual range.

[vils]

Rulle34 here is the Sensors.dat from the Mod with the RWR values added. Check it out with a Uboat in different fog thickness and RWR detectors.

I changed them as above. Also in readme.

http://rapidshare.de/files/5929002/RWR_16km_Sensors.rar.html
-------------------------------
Sensors.dat with 16 km maximum visual range for crew. Added better lock-on for periscope and UZO, Added longer range for RWR passive radar detectors. This is more in line with the increased fog distances and visual sensors overriding the RWR.

Vis mod has fog at 600m, 4500m, 9000m for heavy, medium, and light fog.

Metox: 4km left alone. Good for heavy fog.
Borkum: 5km to 8km. Good through medium fog distance.
Naxos: 8km to 12km. Good through light fog distance.
Tunis: 10km to 16km. Good through max visual range.

I took the liberty of grabbing this aswell. Keep up the exellent work Jungman! :up:

[oRGy]

As for the moon, I tried making a larger texture a long time ago when the Vis Mod came out, it did not work either. It is because the moon is placed in orbit further away from 900 to 1800, and looks small due to perspective.

Only real fix is to change the moon's ball 3D sphere vertexes in scene.dat (but which set of 12 I have no idea x,y,z *4 data = 12 numbers). As was stated in the 'High resolution' thread.

This fix is already in the Improved U-Boat scene.dat.

[rulle34]

Rulle34 here is the Sensors.dat from the Mod with the RWR values added. Check it out with a Uboat in different fog thickness and RWR detectors.

I changed them as above. Also in readme.

http://rapidshare.de/files/5929002/RWR_16km_Sensors.rar.html
-------------------------------
Sensors.dat with 16 km maximum visual range for crew. Added better lock-on for periscope and UZO, Added longer range for RWR passive radar detectors. This is more in line with the increased fog distances and visual sensors overriding the RWR.

Vis mod has fog at 600m, 4500m, 9000m for heavy, medium, and light fog.

Metox: 4km left alone. Good for heavy fog.
Borkum: 5km to 8km. Good through medium fog distance.
Naxos: 8km to 12km. Good through light fog distance.
Tunis: 10km to 16km. Good through max visual range.

Great Jungmann!
And big thank's! :up:
Will try and report as soon as I have made some different tests.
:sunny:

[rulle34]

Jungmann!
Just a question that come to my mind.
Now I use the same water/sky files from Ortegas original visibility mod made for 20000m in this sensors.dat edited to 16000m? Does it not make any difference? I mean if these files have to be edited too so they are fitted for 16000m?

I haven't noticed any strange at all, but I just want to make sure we don't miss anything in the development of this mod.

Best to you Jungmann!

[Jungman]

Orgy,

Do you mean RealUboat made changes to the scene.dat file to make the moon back to its larger size in the Visibility Mod?

In the Visibility mod, the moon is placed further away from 900 to 1800 for the larger visual enviroment (moon radius). In the process, the moon looks like a small disk half the original game size.

I am not speaking of increasing the texure detail (I have that) but making the moon's 3D model twice as big to give its original size back. That takes serious editing of the scene.dat file for the moon's vertex data chunk. Not moon radius. (that should be called moon orbit). If that is put back original, the moon is normal size again but is in front of the cloads sphere and always can be seen.

Rulle34,

I got a strange problem. Even if I set my maximum visual range back to 8 km, my crew is still spotting ships about 15 km away.

Can you confirm this? It means that the visual factors in sensors.cfg is giving a boost to visual range (I checked on this with no results, just changes detect time).

I think the increased size of the enviroment to 17.5 km via Ortega Vis Mod is causing an increase n maximum spotting range? :hmm:

I am using 8 km stock sensors.dat and stock sensors.cfg. My crew is spotting to 15 km regularly. Something is wrong with my modified game maybe. Can you confirm this?

If I use the stock scene.dat, the visual spotting is limited to 8 km as normal, but can go to 10 km as CCIP discovered. Something odd is going on here.

I am going to try a sensors.dat file with 4 km distance and see if it averages out to 12 km spotting.

The bug maybe that increase in the Periscope and UZO to 16 km is causing the crew AI to still see far away. That was done to maintain a lock on. That maybe the problem and will have to be put back to normal. The Periscope and UZO is its own 'Visual Sensor' also. So let me but the values back to normal and see if it clears that problem up. It will mean no solid lock on for the UZO unless closer to 8 km again.

[Jungman]

Now I use the same water/sky files from Ortegas original visibility mod made for 20000m in this sensors.dat edited to 16000m? Does it not make any difference? I mean if these files have to be edited too so they are fitted for 16000m?

I haven't noticed any strange at all, but I just want to make sure we don't miss anything in the development of this mod.


See above post. Yes, strange stuff occurs. With visual set for 16 km, I am spotting to 19 km.

I lowered maximum visual range in sensors.dat to 8 km and I spot to 15 km. It maybe be the changes to periscope and UZO to maintain a lock on. I am placing back to stock values and retest.

Try looking at a ship and see if you are not seeing beyond 16 km. Because I am seeing well beyond 16 km and it fades away at 20 km.

Some sort of averaging effect maybe be occurring, but I must rule out the periscope and uzo maximum range changes. They are 'visual sensors' too and could be artificially causing a longer spotting range ( though they were set for 16 km too).

I think the game must have the "dynamic size grid" (two float numbers in beginning of the scene.dat) reduced by half to fit the new model. It acts like a modifier to sensors distance.

So 16 km is 32 km, 8 km is 16 km etc. That is what I am seeing/ :-?

[Jungman]

OK found the problem. I must put the Periscope/UZO maximum range back to more normal range. It was 5 km.

Else, the AI uses the these 'Visual Sensors' to spot for you! Despite any crew on deck.

THis was done to maintain a lock-on. In the new model anything beyond 5km would not stay locked on. This help fix it by increasing the maximum range of the Periscope and UZO; but it causes these 'sensors' to override and spot for you at long distance.

So use this version instead, it will not have as good as a lock-on, but the watch crew will spot more correct. Your lock-on for Periscope/UZO will go back to normal.

This is also a reason why it was getting Vampire Vision at night!

I am fervent in makeing a new sensor.dat to get this to finially work now I ofund the problem.

I wil post new link here. Throw away all those other sensors.dat unless you like them spotting far away especially at night.

[oRGy]

Interesting info Jungman.

In Improved U-Boat, thanks to Ortega, I x3'd the vertices of the moon in the scene.dat file (and changed the texture) to get it back up to the right size. Check it out! I did this through DatConverter and hex editing.

Anyway - so a good setting for the uzo's/scopes would be say 9km? That way they'd never spot beyond 9km at night, yes? It does seem most confusing.

As I thought by editing the sensors.cfg file to change the fog setting to 0.85 and the light to 1.5, the crew spotted much more accurately at night, up to only about 9km. Then I loaded a campaign and I got some out to 12-15km again. Really quite strange. This was with the uzo/periscopes fix, though I forget to what range I set them, 12.5 or 16? I'll have to look.

Also, when testing ensure that there's no copies of sensors.dat lying around your /library folder as backups - these can be used by the game instead of your .dat files - I found this odd bug while testing ccips camera mod.

[rulle34]

oRGy!
Nice that you have fixed the moon! That's nice. Is the scene.dat with murky water or Jungmanns edited one with clear water?

Another thing. I never have had nightspottings over 9000m with my configuration. They varies between 4000m and 9000m in night with clear weather and in campaign. I wonder why it differs??

[oRGy]

Its the one with the murky water. In the next version of IuB there'll be an option for clear water, by the way.

The nightspottings fix worked for me fine as well. For a while. The version you posted differed from the IuB one in only one respect I thought - the preciserange was 16 instead of 15.5, and I had forgot to include a changed sensors.cfg file in IuB, so I thought the sensors.cfg file made the changes to the spotting.

And it worked - but then I reinstalled the game and put my nice new "fixed" version of IuB over it... and in a saved campaign, I got back to 15km spotting at night. I tested a single mission (the courageous one), and the task force was spotted at 9km.

Bizarre!

Perhaps it really is the uzo/scopes fix. I'll have to double check.

[rulle34]

oRGy
I think for evaluation try not to use a saved campaign. Start a new "testcampaign" and evaluate spotting distances there. Try and see if it helps!

When do you plan for a release with option for clear water? Im very eager to see how it looks :)

[oRGy]

Yeah, I've had that suspicion before too. I'll try to test again tonight.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Great stuff still happening here.

Just one question. (if it has already been answered I apologize)

It appears that either/or the water COLOR and MURKINESS somehow influence range of sight/visualization by the AI.

Any thoughts?

[oRGy]

??

That would be very odd if true. They shouldn't.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

??

That would be very odd if true. They shouldn't.

Exactly.

The only thing that tends to chase me away from visibility distance changes is reading much about graphic anomalies.

... Just trying to fully understand why that is so.

[rulle34]

Maybe Im wrong in this but the way I have understood it, the env/sky.dat files that goes with Ortegas visibility mod should be used for the right visibility.

I use one version where Gammel has merged the new Beery water tga's into Ortega's visibility mod env/sky.dat files.

I think this is one part needed in the visibility mod, but I can be wrong in this. Jungmann knows this. Maybe he can confirm or clear this out?

[oRGy]

Yes, you need Ortega's env/sky files otherwise the clouds disappear.

I integrated Beery's lighter night sky into the vismod myself for IuB. I integrated new rwr ranges too, the resized moon, the periscope lockons (I think to 12.5km).

For some reason though, I missed out on the custom sensors.cfg.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Yes, you need Ortega's env/sky files otherwise the clouds disappear.

I integrated Beery's lighter night sky into the vismod myself for IuB. I integrated new rwr ranges too, the resized moon, the periscope lockons (I think to 12.5km).

For some reason though, I missed out on the custom sensors.cfg.

Okay, things are becoming clearer to me now. At least the sensors.cfg isn't a dat file right? As long as we can edit it ourselves we can test different things without making more work for the few of us who can hex-edit.

[oRGy]

Yes.

Just checked my periscopes fix in the IuB sensors.dat - turns out MaxRange was set to 16km (preciserange to 12.5) - I set it back to 12.5 again. Will do more tests.

[rulle34]

oRGy
What I understand Jungmann is making one with 8 visibility 16 km and lock on 8 km. Haven't heard any from him for a while but I guess his busy.
Will you try with 12 km, then we can compare results when I get the file from Jungmann if you like.

Have you tried with a new campaign just to see if the results changed?

[Jungman]

In Improved U-Boat, thanks to Ortega, I x3'd the vertices of the moon in the scene.dat file (and changed the texture) to get it back up to the right size. Check it out! I did this through DatConverter and hex editing.

Anyway - so a good setting for the uzo's/scopes would be say 9km? That way they'd never spot beyond 9km at night, yes? It does seem most confusing.

As I thought by editing the sensors.cfg file to change the fog setting to 0.85 and the light to 1.5, the crew spotted much more accurately at night, up to only about 9km. Then I loaded a campaign and I got some out to 12-15km again. Really quite strange. This was with the uzo/periscopes fix, though I forget to what range I set them, 12.5 or 16? I'll have to look.



Please put the Periscope/UZO range back to 5 km stock. I found the game will use these extra 'visual sensors' and see out to 16 km wether day or night automatically! That is why they are so short ranged made by the devs in the stock game.

I tried making them a longer range to increase lock-on distance, but it causes to spot automaticaly to 16 km!

I am glad you were able to get the moon back to normal size. I do not know how you did it finding the numbers in that mess.

[Jungman]

Here is the Sensors.dat file with the original stock ranges for the Periscope and UZO. UZO will lock-on at least to 10 km, periscope 5 to 6 km at it was.

I had to put it back because the Periscope/UZO maximum range was overriding the Watch crew visual spotting. So even during the night or day, you will be seeing with the AI use of the Peri/UZO automatically giving spot ranges out to rediculous 20km! Even in the night darkness.

Use this version for Rull34 RuB_Vis Mod

http://rapidshare.de/files/6044097/RWR_16km_Sensors.rar.html

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Does it also incorporate the periscope / snorkel fix you mentioned here:

Jungman wrote:
The periscope is seen just fine. It does help hide the snorkel from more than 4 km away. The game doubles the detection to 2 meters far away. It does not destroy the gameplay at all.

Go try it in the game. You're periscope will be spotted if you get up with 2 km of a ship as normal.

I wonder what sonar maximum depth values you used?

No use in repeating something. The Allies did not know the subs could dive that deep, it would seem the sonar should be able to get under it if deep enough, plus it makes it more fun.

Thas is a nice idea you got there. I would like to integrate your idea into SonarDC.

[rulle34]

Here is the Sensors.dat file with the original stock ranges for the Periscope and UZO. UZO will lock-on at least to 10 km, periscope 5 to 6 km at it was.

I had to put it back because the Periscope/UZO maximum range was overriding the Watch crew visual spotting. So even during the night or day, you will be seeing with the AI use of the Peri/UZO automatically giving spot ranges out to rediculous 20km! Even in the night darkness.

Use this version for Rull34 RuB_Vis Mod

http://rapidshare.de/files/6044097/RWR_16km_Sensors.rar.html

Great Jungmann! :up:
Have DL and will try it out at once :yep:
:sunny:

[rulle34]

Hello Jungmann!
Here comes a "first impression report" of your new sensors.dat

Time: April 1942

Daytime spottings, weather clear: 15900m, 15700m, 15800m. Works great as before!

Nighttime spottings, weather clear: 5000m
Nighttime spottings heavy fog: 600m
Nighttime spottings heavy fog: No spottings at all!!! I saw the search-lights from the DD ans tried to ask for "nearest visible contact" and got the answer "no visible contact". Then the DD start to fire upon me. This was new experience for me!


I didn't either get any RWR detection reports from DD's. But I had contacts on radar all the time!

Edit:
More spottings. This time it was dawn and still heavy fog: 800m, 900m, 800m

[Jungman]

You did get an active radar report or did the passive radar go off?

In heavy fog, I hear of people even under normal stock conditions getting jumped by DD.

Are you using any changes to sensors.cfg such as visual light=1.5?

I need more specific. The RWR (passive radar) never gave a warning in heavy fog? I think in April 1942 most DD have some kind of radar to pick up (but not all have them installed).

I assume from your edited post you did get visual spotting in heavy fog 5 out of 6 times....what RWR unit do you have? Metox or Borkum? Make sure one is installed.

[rulle34]

My mistake! I assumed I had a RWR detecor but I only had the radar :damn:
That's how it happens when you are eager for testresults :roll:

Anyway this DD jumping on you have only happen me in stockgame. I dont remeber what mod it was that solved that, but after that mod it have never happen until now. Maybe it was just a coincidence.

Spottings follows this distances I reported before and now Im trying a patrol with RWR detector Matox. Will report further.

[rulle34]

New report:
Spetember 1942 kl.01.28 (night) reported a ship spotted from a convoy at a distance of 15700m. I couldn't see it my self. The thing is that it was not so dark outside. It was up north in AK 38 so maybe it simulates for the lighter nights still at that time of year, and then spottings are more like daytime values?? :hmm:

Now I also got a warning from RWR (Fumb-1 Metox), distance 3810m.
Weather clear!

[Jungman]

THe Metox maximum range is only 4 km. That is working well.

The spotting far away at night will happen. The game mechanics only causes the the time for spotting at night to increase, not the distance.

You will get far away spotting at night. It is just that in the original stock 8 km range game, you did not notice it so much. Try setting in Sensors.cfg Visual to 2 and more important the Range factor to 1. The crew has a harder time at night to see, but it is not affect during the day.

I think Gammel did alot of testing with those settings in Sensors.cfg, do you know what he found works well? He did make a post about it. I thought he bumped up the range factor and the light factor and found a good compromise. That maybe the best that can be done.

I got maximum of 9-12 km with that setting I have. It really does not affect daytime spotting that much to 16 km. That is where the RWR kicking in as a back up works in case crew sees nothing. You can also run active radar too, the DD has no radar receiver to pick you up.

If you sit long enough in one spot, the crew will spot everything inside the 16 km whether day or night. The game mechanics only changes amount of time to spot, not range.

[rulle34]

Ok Jungmann!
I will ask Gammel for his settings in sensors.cfg and contiue trying. I haven't messed with these at all. The sensors.cfg I use is from Ortega's original visibility mod.

I wonder if oRGy will release his fixed moon for visibility mod?

[Jungman]

I wonder if oRGy will release his fixed moon for visibility mod?

He did, I am using it right now and it works great :yep: . He did a very good job.

Just pull it out of the IuB mod they made. It has the scene.dat file changed to make the moon full size again with Ortega Visibility Mod.

It looks exactly like RuB except the Moon is normal size again, and you have the larger visual enviroment. Now it has the murky water, so you may want to change that.

Since I like to see my torps hit and the ship sink, you can set the water more clear as was in stock game (or anything you wish, I use a middle murkiness) by a simple hex edit of two values in the IuB_scene.dat file. Those two numbers control the near and far distance of the 'water fog'.

I can give you the IuB_scene.dat file as it is. If you want it more custom clear water like original game water was, tell me and I can PM you a quick link to it. Remember if you give it away to someone, make sure to give credit to IuB team and oRGy.

[Jungman]

Here is a repost of what Gammel had in test:

I´ve tried new values for the sensors.cfg file
Visual range factor=1.7
Visual fog factor=1
Visual light factor=1.2

whith the range factor value you have a huge influence on the daylight spotting range, with a value above 2 my crew spotted the battleship in the test mission i´ve posted here before only at ~13000
(i set the time to daytime in the mission file)

I´m away from a high light factor value as i posted before (problems with zero spottings), the range factor has also hugh influence on the nightime spotting ability of the crew.

The worst thing for testing is the strange randomess with the spotting.
I hope with the posted values the nightime spotting visibility will drop clearly under 10000 meters, some tests looks promising.

Here´s an example for the randomness other posters noticed too.

same values in the sensors.cfg file (others than above), mission started 3 times at nightime.

Crew spotted ship

-at 2500 (!) meters
-at 12200 meters
-at 9500 meters

during real game the randomness doesn´t look that worse to me, but testing so is incredible time intensive.

So could anyone play his campaign game with the visibility mod
and this new values for the sensors.cfg file and post results here?
make a backup before or comment out the stock values it´s a little change to a textfile only.
-------------------------------------------------------
I too find the range factor better with night time spotting. I set range for 1 and light for 2 and get 12 km.

Going to try ranges more similar to his (range 1.5; light 1.5 maybe that equal gives a square root effect). I am counting on the improved RWR detectors to warn me of a DD getting in too close!

[rulle34]

Hello Jungmann!
I have now put in Gammels values in sensors.cfg and will try it out.

Are they different from oRGy's values?

I would be very glad to have oRGy's scene.dat with fixed moon edited with clear water :sunny: . With the new ocean_floor mod it's great to have clear water.

On thing though that puzzles me :-? that with the file with 16 km visibility and no RWR fix I had first had really good nightspottings. Thise new file makes them variy more. I just wonder why??
Please don't take it as critics, it's just a thought if something has been bypassed :hmm:

You have really made a great work on this Jungmann and I think this will be a very realistic, important and popular mod :sunny:

[Jungman]

The RWR has nothing to do with visual spotting. You are using the corrected Sensors.dat, I had to put the periscope/UZO max range back to stock values; else it would spot very far away automatically.

You can try to use the other version without changes to the RWR ranges. The nature of the spotting is very random.

EDIT:

What are you getting? Visual spotting by your watch crew depends upon enemy ship speed, the target's aspect ratio, light level, fog level, distance range, size of waves on the sea, and its sensor height.

If it is heavy fog and the waves are large you will get very bad spotting. It is not uncommon to have a DD pop out of a heavy storm on top of you.

It is just as bad at spotting at night (very much in a storm, fog, heavy waves) as it always has been.

Anyway I can send you a personal clear_Big_Moon_scene.dat.

The RWR is only for detecting ships and airplanes with radar. I only boosted the range by about 50%. I used the sensors.dat file from you big mod to make sure i was using the same one.

If you make visual light factor in sensors.cfg much higher, it will tend to make spotting very random at night. That is why I reposted what Gammel found.

Can you be more specific data? Plus try out the same missions without the RWR changes. Again as for me, the spotting has always been problematic with the increased visual range. It has always been there, just never notice as much with max 8 km compared to max of 16 km.

Before, people would rely heavily on their hydrophones to pick up a ship 20 km away. Now with max visual of 16 km, they hardly ever dive to listen for a ship except in heavy or medium fog.

I am looking at IuB beta version made about a month ago, it does not include changes to Sensors.cfg. IuB is using the stock game values I assume.

[rulle34]

Yes, I fully understand Jungmann!
I will do some more tests with new Gammel settings in sensors.cfg to see if it changes nightspottings.
Best to you Jungmann

[Jungman]

I would be very glad to have oRGy's scene.dat with fixed moon edited with clear water . With the new ocean_floor mod it's great to have clear water.

Here is a copy of scene.dat from IuB Mod by your request. It has the Large Moon and works with the Visibility mod plus some RuB. I made the Water Clear as the stock original game was set. Now you can see your torpedoes hit die Schiff. :arrgh!: I prefer it a bit more murky over stock, but this is stock values.

http://rapidshare.de/files/6094093/Clear_Moon_IuB_scene.rar.html

The other issue, I need to do a campaign test with some Sensors.cfg values and see what I come up with. It will never be perfect, the game mechanics will not allow it.

[kriller2]

great! I have just tried this version with ail moon mod and now I can have both moon and sun without the strange rectangle around the moon! :rock:

But while I tested I could not see any clouds on the skya anymorein campaign? but there was clouds in the singlemiss. Barham, I will test some more...

[Jungman]

That scene.dat is meant to go with Ortega increased Visibility Mod. There is more files for the larger visual enviroment such as in ENV folder files called AltSky_color.dat.

One side effect was the moon had to be moved far away which made it look very small. oRGy fixed that in IuB which uses the Visibility Mod. Now it looks big as was in original game. Maybe even bigger.

If you use that on stock game; the cload and sky sphere will be hidden by the increased scene.dat parameters defineing the size of your enviroment.

[rulle34]

I would be very glad to have oRGy's scene.dat with fixed moon edited with clear water . With the new ocean_floor mod it's great to have clear water.

Here is a copy of scene.dat from IuB Mod by your request. It has the Large Moon and works with the Visibility mod plus some RuB. I made the Water Clear as the stock original game was set. Now you can see your torpedoes hit die Schiff. :arrgh!: I prefer it a bit more murky over stock, but this is stock values.

http://rapidshare.de/files/6094093/Clear_Moon_IuB_scene.rar.html

The other issue, I need to do a campaign test with some Sensors.cfg values and see what I come up with. It will never be perfect, the game mechanics will not allow it.

Big thank's Jungmann :up:
Now Im back from work and will try it out.
Just a question: Using SH 3 Commander it's possible to set the water density. Is this a way of changing the murkiness of the water or will it affect other settings for the moon etc in this scene.dat file.?

By the way, I have sent you a PM

[caspofungin]

a little help, please -- where can i get the 16km vis mod, with the rwr settings of 4/8/12/16km, without the messed up precise lock range of periscope/uzo? there's getting to be so many links on this thread, it's a little confusing. don't get me wrong -- i'm really impressed by jungman's work and what he's doing for the entire community.

[oRGy]

Next version of IuB (in a few days) should have it.

[rulle34]

a little help, please -- where can i get the 16km vis mod, with the rwr settings of 4/8/12/16km, without the messed up precise lock range of periscope/uzo? there's getting to be so many links on this thread, it's a little confusing. don't get me wrong -- i'm really impressed by jungman's work and what he's doing for the entire community.

Im now making playtests on the latest version. (see above posts)
If it turn outs well I can provide a link to the configuration I use.

[rulle34]

Next version of IuB (in a few days) should have it.

@oRGY
What are the values you have used in Sensors.cfg?

[oRGy]

Same as stock RuB except that fog factor is 0.85 and light factor 1.5.

I might change the fog factor though... causes ships to be spotted before the player sees them in fog.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

I thought the fog factor is a representation of the enemy's ability to see you. I believe that the readme for RUb states that fog factor was increased to 2.0 in order to prevent the enemy from seeing you too soon.

Has the effect of fog factor been re-defined and I just missed it?

[Gammel]

the fog factor value changed by RUB is in the sim.cfg file,
the ones having effect on the crew´s spotting ability are in the sensors.cfg file.

btw i´m playing the game with range factor 1.95, fog factor 1.3 atm, but havn´t done much testing with these settings.

1.7 / 1.2 worked quite well for me...



Jungman, can you do something for me and maybe others?
I´m a little confused atm with all the scene and sensors.dat´s around here :P
Could you do a posting with the latest and best working sensors.dat and scene.dat files?
(maybe it would be helpful to add some kind of version history to the files o.st.)

[Kpt. Lehmann]

the fog factor value changed by RUB is in the sim.cfg file,
the ones having effect on the crew´s spotting ability are in the sensors.cfg file.

btw i´m playing the game with range factor 1.95, fog factor 1.3 atm, but havn´t done much testing with these settings.

1.7 / 1.2 worked quite well for me...

Thanks Gammel! I didn't know that.

[rulle34]

Same as stock RuB except that fog factor is 0.85 and light factor 1.5.

I might change the fog factor though... causes ships to be spotted before the player sees them in fog.

What do you mean by stock Rub oRGy?
What I know there is no modded sensors.cfg in Rub?
Are you refering to another file or have I missed something here?

[oRGy]

Well, stock SH3, then. ;)

[Gammel]

the fog factor value changed by RUB is in the sim.cfg file,
the ones having effect on the crew´s spotting ability are in the sensors.cfg file.

btw i´m playing the game with range factor 1.95, fog factor 1.3 atm, but havn´t done much testing with these settings.

1.7 / 1.2 worked quite well for me...

Thanks Gammel! I didn't know that.

ups, of course i mean
range factor = 1,95
light factor = 1,3 not fog!!

i´m using a fog factor value = 1

[Kpt. Lehmann]

the fog factor value changed by RUB is in the sim.cfg file,
the ones having effect on the crew´s spotting ability are in the sensors.cfg file.

btw i´m playing the game with range factor 1.95, fog factor 1.3 atm, but havn´t done much testing with these settings.

1.7 / 1.2 worked quite well for me...

Thanks Gammel! I didn't know that.

ups, of course i mean
range factor = 1,95
light factor = 1,3 not fog!!

i´m using a fog factor value = 1

Ahh roger. No prob.

[rulle34]

1.7 / 1.2 worked quite well for me...

ups, of course i mean
range factor = 1,95
light factor = 1,3 not fog!!

i´m using a fog factor value = 1


Well, stock SH3, then. ;)

Thank's oRGy and Gammel :up:

I don't mean to be a nitpicker, it's just a complicated mod so I just want to be sure what we mean by this and that.. :-?

I'll try out some combinations and see what it leads too.

Right now nightspottings is a bit to high (13700m last try clear weather)

How do this values affect day/night spottings? I mean increasing lightfactor leads to what? and increasing lightfactor leads to what?

I have now a clean install and will try on a new campaign :know:

[Gammel]

higher range factor => crew is spotting later in general

higher the lightfactor => crew is spotting even later at dawn, dusk, and night

edit:
doing a fresh install right now too, let´s start some testing! :-j

[Kpt. Lehmann]

My sonar man tells me you guys are getting CLOSER!!!!

:up: :up: :up:

[rulle34]

higher range factor => crew is spotting later in general

higher the lightfactor => crew is spotting even later at dawn, dusk, and night

edit:
doing a fresh install right now too, let´s start some testing! :-j

Yeah, lets do this bugging mod once and for all :yep:

I had some trouble with my installation. Had to reinstall and patch up again. Now all is fine and good to go :smug:


Thank's Kpt.Lehmann, I hope your'e right :P

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Yeah, lets do this bugging mod once and for all :yep:


Wow! 21 pages of discussion an work... my hat is off to you all. :sunny:

[Jungman]

higher range factor => crew is spotting later in general

higher the lightfactor => crew is spotting even later at dawn, dusk, and night


The light factor will not change the maximum range of the crew to spot, just changes how long it take them to detect it. That is what I mean it is the game mechanics. Your crew will spot to 16 km at night, it has been that way in stock SH3. It is not as noticeable since visual range is 8 km.

You Uboat will travel closer to the ship by the slower time to spot thus giving you around 13 km spotting. In heavy fog you may not even see a DD bearing down on you with a high light factor.

Increase the range factor seems to help for long range spotting at night. You just have to find a good balance. There is no solution except reloading a new 8 km Sensors.dat file for night time.

a little help, please -- where can i get the 16km vis mod, with the rwr settings of 4/8/12/16km, without the messed up precise lock range of periscope/uzo? there's getting to be so many links on this thread, it's a little confusing. don't get me wrong -- i'm really impressed by jungman's work and what he's doing for the entire community.

Here are the links from previous pages. It is what I am using ATM.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is the Sensors.dat file with the original stock ranges for the Periscope and UZO. UZO will lock-on at least to 10 km, periscope 5 to 6 km at it was.

I had to put it back because the Periscope/UZO maximum range was overriding the Watch crew visual spotting. So even during the night or day, you will be seeing with the AI use of the Peri/UZO automatically giving spot ranges out to rediculous 20km! Even in the night darkness.

Use this version for Rull34 RuB_Vis Mod

http://rapidshare.de/files/6044097/RWR_16km_Sensors.rar.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the modified scene.dat file from IuB. It has Ortega Visibility Mod plus maybe some RuB colors? Anyway the Moon size is corrected back to large instead of being very small form Ortega Visibility Mod. In addition it has the stock clear water values.--------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a copy of scene.dat from IuB Mod by your request. It has the Large Moon and works with the Visibility mod plus some RuB. I made the Water Clear as the stock original game was set. Now you can see your torpedoes hit die Schiff. I prefer it a bit more murky over stock, but this is stock values.

http://rapidshare.de/files/6094093/Clear_Moon_IuB_scene.rar.html

The other issue, I need to do a campaign test with some Sensors.cfg values and see what I come up with. It will never be perfect, the game mechanics will not allow it.

[Gammel]

i got your point there, Jungman.
You can alter the time delay before the crew is reporting a ship that has come into visual range with these sensors.cfg settings.

And i can confirm the range factor has influence for both, day and nighttime spotting.

When you´re doing tests with the settings, first try to find a good value for range factor, then fine-tune with light factor.

Also the higher values you´re using, the greater is the randomness the crew is spotting. Thats not good.

With range factor more than 2 crew is only spotting around 14000 meter at daytime.

what are the other values for?
visual aspect seems to be the value for the siluette the target is displaying to your sub (broadside or bow/stern)

speed factor => maybe your subs speed
wave factor => seastate ?

but what about "visual noise" and "sensor high"?

[Gammel]

i did some tests with the noise factor value set to 2

Now the crew is spotting ALWAYS at max range (15600) at night...

[oRGy]

Yes - silhoutte/size of ship also seems to matter.

[rulle34]

Still working on the right combination :dead:

Does anyone knows how this line and option in Sensors.cfg influence sightings?

"Visual uses crew efficiency=false ;[true or false]"

What Im aiming at here is, if we cant find a good combination for nightspottings, is it possible to "reduce" crew efficency at night by let the green bar be only half?

[rulle34]

I think I finally got it :/\k:

Settings in sensors.cfg:

visual rangefactor: 1.4
Visual lightfactor: 1.6

Here are some testingresults in both singlemission and in campaign:
Single mission C2 bowangle 90
Night clear: 8400m
Night light fog: 6400m
Night medium fog: 2600m

Campaign
Light fog, daytime, clouds overcast, bowangle 180: 7600m
Heavy fog: 700m
Night light fog: 5800m
daytime fog light, bowangle 180, small merchant: 6900m
daytime clear: 15400m, 15300m

I feel that this values works great and it's fully playable. :yep:
More testing will of course give better feed-back and som finetuning even better results, but so far this works just fine for me. :sunny:

I'll put a link for download the configuration I use and with new values for sensors.cfg soon in this link if you want it?

Ok here is the mod: http://rapidshare.de/files/6207495/16_km_visibility_mod_RWR_Moon_fix_Clear_water.rar. html

:up:

[Hunterbear]

Thanks to everyone putting in the time and effort to find a solution to this issue now that we have greater line of sight.

Thanks for the link rulle34, downloading it right now to try it out ingame. Sounds like you've found the right path.

This is one of my favorite threads!

:up:

[Jungman]

As I metioned earlier, I was using 1.5 and 1.5. The reason was the equation X^2 has a maximum when both numbers are the same value, with minimal bad affects from having either set too high.

The factor numbers seem like they are multiplied.

If the numbers 1.6 and 1.4 work better (skewed to the light factor which would make more sense) I believe you all have found the best balance possible.

I'll try those out. :yep:

[rulle34]

As I metioned earlier, I was using 1.5 and 1.5. The reason was the equation X^2 has a maximum when both numbers are the same value, with minimal bad affects from having either set too high.

The factor numbers seem like they are multiplied.

If the numbers 1.6 and 1.4 work better (skewed to the light factor which would make since) I believe you all have found the best balance possible.

I'll try those out. :yep:

Hello Jungman!

I haven't tried 1.5 and 1.5. Maybe these will work even better. I will try that combination when Im home after work.

[rulle34]

Anyone have any feed-back on the new settings? :huh:

Some feed-back should be appreciated, cos I don't think finetuning is finished yet :-?

[Hartmann]

works it over RUB 1.44 ??

i have a rub with a deffault clean water..

thanks

[rulle34]

works it over RUB 1.44 ??

i have a rub with a deffault clean water..

thanks

Yes!

[Gammel]

i´ll use your new settings together with Jungmans latest files.
Have not much time to play atm.
As soon i´ve completed a patrol with the new files i´ll post feedback, i promise!
Thanks rulle34 and Jungman for the latest work!

[Hartmann]

I see that the underwater vision is a lot better that in the Rub , but still is very dark for my taste, inclusive when the sub is near to the surface. i like a more blue tonality.

i tried to put over the default water files from unreal uboat but then the game looks weird, a night dark sky in a sunny day :nope: .

could be possible have this mod with a more clean water ..? what file i have to replace ??

thanks :up:

[rulle34]

Hello
scene.dat is the file that affects the water fog. (data\scene.dat)
I think this file is connected with visibility.
Better Jungmann or someone else clear this out.

However, someplaytests about spotting ranges would be appreciated :yep:

[Jungman]

"tried to put over the default water files from unreal uboat but then the game looks weird, a night dark sky in a sunny day ."

That will not work, the 3D world model from that mod is for 8 km and you will see no sky/stars since it is behind the blackness even though it is daytime.

He has the clear water version, Hartmann wants more blue water instead of the black water. That needs to be changed alot easier with TimeTraveller's water tool. It changes colors. I too would like a bit more blue in the ocean. The scene.dat file Rulle34 and I are using has the stock clear water values.

My little campaign, spotted 15 km a big C3 ship at midnight clear. Bu they missed an airplane until within 6 km checking out the carnage. I do not have a RWR installed or I would have received a warning.

Another time my crew did not see a small Tribal DD from 6 km away (too small) later that night/dawn checking out the attack or random patrol. I did pick it up though when I dived on hyrdophones (that is how I knew it was lurking around in the night).

So 6 to 15 km at night/dawn depending alot on size of target.

Been busy help gouldjd with his new damage mod. I really would like it to succeed.

[caspofungin]

picked up a convoy at extreme range -- can't give you an exact range as i'm playing w/out map contacts, but 15k+, 0900, clear, wind 5. ships were "hull down" -- could only just make out masts and superstructure.

[rulle34]

My little campaign, spotted 15 km a big C3 ship at midnight clear. Bu they missed an airplane until within 6 km checking out the carnage. I do not have a RWR installed or I would have received a warning.

Another time my crew did not see a small Tribal DD from 6 km away (too small) later that night/dawn checking out the attack or random patrol. I did pick it up though when I dived on hyrdophones (that is how I knew it was lurking around in the night).

So 6 to 15 km at night/dawn depending alot on size of target.

Hmm, that's not good at all. Have you made the test with a clean install Jungman? Before I did a clean install the values was very different, almost as random.

picked up a convoy at extreme range -- can't give you an exact range as i'm playing w/out map contacts, but 15k+, 0900, clear, wind 5. ships were "hull down" -- could only just make out masts and superstructure.

Looks good :up: The mod is set for maximum spotting 16000m. If you have any nightspottings, please post them here with distance and kind of weather :)

[VON_CAPO]

I downloaded the following : http://rapidshare.de/files/6207495/16_km_visibility_mod_RWR_Moon_fix_Clear_water.rar. html

Anyone have any feed-back on the new settings? :huh:
Some feed-back should be appreciated, cos I don't think finetuning is finished yet :-?

My contribution

Spotted at 6300 meters

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/2478/sh3img171020052032564216bg.th.jpg (http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh3img171020052032564216bg.jpg)

Later in the night I was traveling at 512 compresion and suddenly it lowers at 1x because a destroyer was TOO NEAR, 300 meters!!!!!

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/4005/sh3img17102005203782183ku.th.jpg (http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh3img17102005203782183ku.jpg) http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/2750/sh3img171020052035539841qj.th.jpg (http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh3img171020052035539841qj.jpg)

Sorry if I am so much graphic with my pics, but English is hard to me. I explain myself better with images.

[Jungman]

High TC above 128x will do that. Delay in AI logic. Also if you have a RWR installed it will detect it if your crew does not spot it.

512x the game skips alot of logic. lets the DD get real close to you. Also if the DD is coming straight on AOB=0, it is harder to see.