RUB....1.41............Deck Gun..................

[Beery]

RUb is not about having fun if it means making the game less realistic and less challenging. RUb is meant for lovers of realism. If other players like it too, that's great, but RUb will always be tuned to meet the needs of the player who desires hardcore realism. For us, the deck gun is only truly fun if it is realistically frustrating. The point is to only use it when absolutely necessary.

[oRGy]

Beery, any chance of removing the HE shells? In reality U-Boats deck guns were only equipped with AP ammo.

[Cdre Gibs]

And I will say it again, "The Deck Gun's Accuracy is adjustable via Modding"

Mine is already done so, but mines the other way, now it is 80% (roughly) Accurate. Just how I like it :)

[Nopileo]

Actually I was thankful for the 'ineffective' RUb gun last night. I was on my way home with one torp left. Discovered a C2, and shot the torp. 90 degree impact hit. The C2 didn't seem to mind at all though, and continued on it's merry way.

I spent the next 30 minutes or so shooting at it with AP shells, perfect shots just below the waterline, but it never even slowed down. In between loading time I played with the AA gun, blowing up all the cargo, the lifeboats (I know it was mean, but I was bored :doh: ), and the 'vent thingies' that blow up so nicely.

Suddenly I noticed the flag (not quite used to having to check the nationality yet. New user of the RUb map). Hmm... Greek. Are they our enemies...? Checked friend/foe listing using F1, and saw that it was still a month or so until Greece became enemies! So I turned around and let it go... :ping: I bet they werent' happy, though.

[rulle34]

I bet they werent' happy, though.

LOL: Maybe thats why Greece declared war against Germany one month later :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Beery]

Beery, any chance of removing the HE shells? In reality U-Boats deck guns were only equipped with AP ammo.

I've tried, but my attempts were unsuccessful - I did manage to change the ammo allocation in one test but then the deck gun didn't fire at all, so I gave up on it.

[Beery]

Here are some real world data regarding deck guns in actual combat (from an earlier thread: http://subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=37230&start=0:

Topp in U-552 fired 126 rounds at a 10,000ton freighter and claimed a sinking but the ship was not destroyed.

Vogel in U-588 hit a 4,800 ton tanker with 2 torps and then spent 4 hours firing 200 rounds into it before claiming it sinking in flames - this ship also survived.

Schacht in U-507 tried to sink a 6,800ton ship by gunfire after the crew had abandoned it but finally gave up and had to use a torpedo.

Wurdemann in U-506 used his gun on 7,000ton tanker and claimed it sunk in flames but the ship survived.

Rasch in U-106 hit a 5,000ton ship with 2 torps and then finished it off with his gun but it took 193 rounds.

Mohlmann in U-571 hit a 9,800ton tanker with 2 torps and finished it off with 20 rounds (this is less than in the previous example but SH3 will often let you sink a ship with around 20 rounds without having to use 2 torps first).

Wiebe in U-516 sank a small 1,200ton coaster by gunfire - number of rounds is not given but it took him 20 minutes.

[Cdre Gibs]

Beery, any chance of removing the HE shells? In reality U-Boats deck guns were only equipped with AP ammo.

To easy :

In these lines in ur Basic.cfg

[AMMO_TYPE0];10.5cm SK C/32
Idx=0
Year=1939
Month=1
AP=40
HE=60
SS=20
Renown=0

[AMMO_TYPE1];8.8cm SK C/35
Idx=1
Year=1939
Month=1
AP=40
HE=160
SS=40
Renown=0

Change it to -

[AMMO_TYPE0];10.5cm SK C/32
Idx=0
Year=1939
Month=1
HE=150
SS=20
Renown=0

[AMMO_TYPE1];8.8cm SK C/35
Idx=1
Year=1939
Month=1
HE=220
SS=40
Renown=0

No more AP ammo :)

To make the Vierling more efficent as an Anti Aircraft mount change this line in ur basic .cfg

[AMMO_TYPE5];2cm FK C/38 Flakvierling
Idx=5
Year=1943
Month=5
AP=4000
Renown=0

To -

[AMMO_TYPE5];2cm FK C/38 Flakvierling
Idx=5
Year=1943
Month=5
AA=4000
Renown=0

[Sailor Steve]

Beery, any chance of removing the HE shells? In reality U-Boats deck guns were only equipped with AP ammo.
Wrong-they only carried HE, nothing else. The proper loadout should be:

10.5cm: 150
8.8cm: 220

Armor piercing ammo is useless for a submarine as anything it could possibly shoot at, including a destroyer, is unarmored.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Salute! Sailor Steve.... I think you have a good point... but I don't understand what you are trying to say in your last sentence. Could you rephrase it?

I think though that most likely the SH3 simply assigns more damage potential to the AP shells as they are the rarer type. In RUb as we all know... the damage for shells was reduced. (which I personally agree with as an artillerist)

As an aside, couldn't that be reflected by simply flip-flpping the damage specs for the two ammo types and reducing the quantity of the undesired / unrealistic ammo type?

[Nopileo]

I bet they werent' happy, though.

LOL: Maybe thats why Greece declared war against Germany one month later :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Oh noo!! :o :o

:rotfl: :rotfl: I didn't mean it! I didn't mean it! It's all RUb's fault!! :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Oesten]

The deck gun is little more than an outdated hangover from WWI anyway. For most U-boats it was a useless hunk of metal weighing down the boat, and never used in action.

[Nopileo]

The deck gun is little more than an outdated hangover from WWI anyway. For most U-boats it was a useless hunk of metal weighing down the boat, and never used in action.

Well I've had quite a few patrols in the XXI, and if the deck gun caused all that drag earlier to make the later boats go that fast (17,5 knots submerged!), I can certainly understand that!

[oRGy]

Removing the deck gun did not yield the 17.5 knot underwater speed, it was the new streamlined design of the typ XXI that did that.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

...and its revolutionary propulsion system ;)

[oRGy]

Also came across this on uboat.net:

http://www.uboat.net/special/analysis.htm

It's an analysis of the attacks made by U-boats over the war and broken down into type. Here's a summary:

Torpedo only attacks were 3521, resulting in 2408 sinkings.

Torpedo & Gunfire were 209 in number, resulting in 191 sinkings.

Gunfire only attacks were 215 in number, resulting in 158 sinkings.

Thus attacks with gunfire represented about 8% of the total, if my sums are right.

[hopkins32]

I don't get it if people don't like the new deck gun why not just add the original GUNS_SUB sim file your self and problem solved.

try something constructive for example i have noticed in the early 1939 to 40 the torpedoes are way to good, it is my understanding form the books iv read that the torpedoes malfunctioned a lot for often then in the RUB mod . Mind fixing that Berry? jk :-j

[Gunfighter34]

I've have no problem with the way the deck guns are calibrated now in RUb, but of course I'm using the 10.5cm gun on the IXB, which probably makes some difference. I sank a large cargo a couple of days ago that was steaming alone in calm seas. I only had two torpedoes left and was on my way back to Lorient. It took almost all of my HE ammo and for awhile I was wondering if I was doing anything to him, but finally he keeled over and croaked. On a different patrol I finished off a T3 that I had damaged with a torpedo after she had fallen behind the convoy. It took a fair amount of ammo, but it didn't seem excessive, though I can't remember the exact number of rounds.

I would think the amount of damage would vary a lot depending on the construction of the vessel and the type of cargo it was carrying, not to mention the quality of its crew and their skill at damage control, but I know all of this is impossible to mod in the game. I used to work for Maersk-Sealand and we had some huge vessels (up to 6600 TEUs back then) and there are even bigger ones now, and even 4400 TEU ships had dead weights of as much as 65,000 metric tons (how's that for your tonnage totals!), but to be honest they didn't look like they could take much artillery fire. But then, despite their size they're probably not as "well-constructed" as they were back in the day, and the design philosophies (as a result of containerization and economies of scale) are different.

I'm not unconvinced by Beery's list of sinkings with the deck gun showing how ineffective it was, but is there any more complete list of sinkings or logs of deck gun action? I would think these examples demonstrated one extreme of deck gun effectiveness, and there are probably half a dozen other reports that would demonstrate the other extreme, but I readily admit I could be wrong.

Anyway, just some food for thought. I'm happy with the deck gun as is, except I did use CCIP's mod to change my rate of fire to 3 rounds per minute, which I felt was more reasonable for me because I have an experienced crew, I only use the deck gun to finish off cripples or strays, and I'm usually trying to squeeze my play time in, so I'm in a hurry. You can't play the vanilla SH3 game of shooting it out with escorts anymore, anyway, because with RUb your ass is grass if you try, which is as it should be. :)