Triggers, Events & Spawning

[Col7777]

I would like to bump this one up please, the reason being I'm trying to get other ship units to spawn when I reach a certain area.
I have even had a lone merchant and kept in visual contact with it hoping it spawns a DD but I have not been successful, I do get aircraft though even in bad storms when any right minded pilot would be safely on the ground.

[CB..]

Col i keep looking at the campaign files both in the editor and in word pad and i have to say that (other than aircraft**); i can't find any evidence that anything actually does spawn into the game as a direct result of the player entering an area...im no expert at all ;but it fairly much looks like to me that what generates spawning is simply the game entry date and time and the probability,

only the aircraft seem to be spawned or triggered by the player..

there may even be a mechanism that prevents surface ships from spawning whilst you are neraby to prevent the "ghost ship" blip into view and vanish again that could occasionaly happen ? whaddya say?

maybe some clever dude could hack an airbase so it spawned a DD instead of an aircraft 9there is a naval base available so that would make sense-- for me it only spawned aircaft tho as stock)

mind you we'd be playing SH2 again before you could say "parsnips!" if we had lots of DD's bouncing the player from airbases BUt it might prove usefull later on if it could be done-- just as the SH2 airbases could be used to spawn wolfpacks (and highly agressive ones too) perhaps similar hacks could be used here...

dunno if Aviar has tried hand writting a random group into the game as the editor allways seems to get it wrong and causes a crash...

[RndGroup 1.RndUnit 1]
Type=9
Origin=Japan
Side=2
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19420501
No=1
Escort=false
SpawnProbability=100
CrewRating=2

[RndGroup 1.RndUnit 2]
Type=11
Origin=Japan
Side=2
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19420501
No=1
Escort=false
SpawnProbability=100
CrewRating=2

[RndGroup 1.RndUnit 3]
Type=101
Origin=Japan
Side=2
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=0
CfgDate=19420501
No=1
Escort=false
SpawnProbability=100
CrewRating=2

[RndGroup 1.RndUnit 4]
Type=6
Origin=Japan
Side=2
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19420501
No=1
Escort=false
SpawnProbability=100
CrewRating=2

[RndGroup 1.RndUnit 5]
Type=13
Origin=Japan
Side=2
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19420501
No=1
Escort=false
SpawnProbability=100
CrewRating=2

[RndGroup 1.RndUnit 6]
Type=4
Origin=Japan
Side=2
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19420501
No=4
Escort=true
SpawnProbability=100
CrewRating=4

[RndGroup 1.RndUnit 7]
Type=2
Origin=Japan
Side=2
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19420501
No=4
Escort=true
SpawnProbability=100
CrewRating=4

[RndGroup 1.RndUnit 8]
Type=1
Origin=Japan
Side=2
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19420501
No=4
Escort=true
SpawnProbability=100
CrewRating=4

[RndGroup 1.Waypoint 1]
Speed=5.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=15385200.000000
Lat=3658500.000000
Height=0.000000

[RndGroup 1.Waypoint 2]
Speed=5.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=15368300.000000
Lat=3626200.000000
Height=0.000000

[RndGroup 1.Waypoint 3]
Speed=5.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=15389100.000000
Lat=3651300.000000
Height=0.000000

[RndGroup 1.Waypoint 4]
Speed=5.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=0
LoopProbability=100
Long=15407600.000000
Lat=3673100.000000
Height=0.000000

watch the group unit numbers they need to tally with whats allready there in consequtive order i assume..


only other thing i can think of is the create group from unit facility available in the SCR file...
that sounds like summat interesting - tho i can't suss out what it does or get it to work..

one thing tho that did seem like the sort of thing you wanted --- near loch ewe i came across a fishing boat... all on it's own so i surfaced to attack it with the deck gun and immediately two DD's were picked up on sonar and steamed into view (they were not there before i surfaced AFAIK)
i submerged lost the DD's then did it again just to check...same thing as soon as the fishing boat saw me the DD's appeared...even calling a third from heaven knows where the second time..so i dunno ive looked on the editor and i cannot see any clues as to why this was the sase....more likely is that there is some communication between friendly vessels that takes place out side the normal eqp and sensor files ...was very reminisent of SH2 tho that little event!!

[FAdmiral]

In the campaign, I never liked the idea of units spawning when
within a certain distance from your boat. I would much rather
see spawning at a port, then maybe sitting there for 3 days
loading and setting sail for another port to sit there for 3 days
unloading. If all traffic could use this method, the game would
seem much more historical to me. Of course it would take more
computer power to run a game this way. To only know that
action is taking place with 200 KM of your boat and nowhere
else in the world is not very real in my opinion. I would like to
see the world ALIVE with activity everywhere and you just
happen to stumble into it as you move around the map...


JIM

[CB..]

. I would like to
see the world ALIVE with activity everywhere and you just
happen to stumble into it as you move around the map...
JIM

i agree FA thankfully this is more or less what they've given us in SH3...

for my tastes all ive done is increase the frequency of the convoys taskfoces and their radio contact reports and left it pretty much like that..i still get bouced by DD's but these are patroling DD's that were there anyway they've just been alerted by a merchant or aircraft sighting...(which is pretty snazzy stuff!! :up: )


thinking on here tho if an area needs a genuine patrol response to the player entering an area then placing a merchant (and an airbase) there with patroling dd's relatively close by will generate the desired effect, as the merchant will alert the airbase and the aircraft will alert the DD's...even frequently if the merchant hasn't spotted you-- get within a certain distance of him on the surface and the "domino" effect falls into place...seen this happen over and over again it's very satisfying to know that the DD's havent been generated on the fly- but were actually patroling nearby anyway and have very realistically been alerted by the aircraft..i hasten to add the neccessary AFAIK as who know what secrets the SH3 campaign engine has been keeping hidden lol! but theres the trick to this Col i think give it try see if it pans out

[Col7777]

I have often set out searching with an empty mission so to speak, I place the sub in an area and patrol to see what turns up.
I have hit on a lone merchant and on the odd occasion got a convoy, which like Jim said is a bit more realistic, and I like that.
But sometimes I get attack after attack by aircraft and still no DD comes looking, I expect because there isn't any in the area but I thought may be it spawned one after a certain amount of time.

I just had a thought while I was typing, in SH2 if you shot down the aircraft then the spawn link was destroyed (I think). I wonder if this is the case in SH3?
I may alter an aircraft not to fire any ammo, have it as a spot plane and see if the desired effect works.

[CB..]

crank up this entry and the aircraft range in the airstrike cfg

Enemy Air Strike Probability Increase on Player Detection=70

works a treat for this :up:

[Col7777]

Cheers CB, does this also increase the air strikes or does it just increase the range of the spawn, I'm in work right now so I can't test till later?

[CB..]

Cheers CB, does this also increase the air strikes or does it just increase the range of the spawn, I'm in work right now so I can't test till later?

both Col-- we are both still using the un-patched game (*is that right ?)
and one of the issues i have is that during the campaign the normal airstrike cfg settings result in practically no air cover at all for the allies no matter where you go..so i cranked the range up to hope fully help that side of things....i thought that if a merchant or other spots you then it would be resonable to have the chance of an airstrike dramatically increase

so yup it increases the stock range for a triggered airstrike (via the range entry)
and almost garantues that soon after getting within firing range of a merchant whilst surfaced -an aircraft will appear....
(doesnt seem to matter wether the ship actually detects you or not- fuzzy logic perhaps)

and if there are any DD patrols nearby; soon after you will see one or two come over to have a look see if one of those detects you then often another DD will head over to help (if there's one nearby) i dont think these DD's are spawned AFAIK they are allready there and going about their normal patrol route untill alerted to your presence by the aircraft..UNLESS ---and this is a guess--- the normal entry date and interval/probability rules get over ruled in the case of detection by an aircraft and the DD's appear ahead of schedule in order to respond to the situation? (this i must admit sounds a distinct possibilitygiven the frequency in which this occurs..a little too regulary to be by chance?)
this is in my game just about the only way the aircraft get spawned at all most of the time ...if i dive as i spot the merchant then the aircraft doesnt get triggerred..and if the aircraft doesn't get triggerred then the DD's don't turn up.i cant find any radio sensors or equipment in the game so i'm assuming this is purely an AI function..

[FAdmiral]

I started my campaign with patch 1.4b and RUB 1.41. I have not
upgraded RUB cause i don't want drastic changes in my existing
campaign. I am on Patrol 6, date is July 23, 1940. I just attacked
my 3rd large convoy near AM52 in deep water. I have seen no
aircraft that far out this early in the war. In fact, the only time I
see them is near enemy ports. The only aircraft I have seen to date is the Hurricane with 1 or 2 sightings of some bi-wing fighter
which I assumed was from a carrier. My last attack on the convoy
was typical of how I conduct convoy attacks. I send 4 torps at 4
different larger British Merchants and most always get 3 sunk with
1 dead in the water. This is perfection to me because I can hide
under the dead in the water merchat while the 2 escorts circle
and circle me dropping their DC's at regular spots. (not close to
me or the merchant) In about an hour, they break off and rejoin
the convoy. (wolfpacks would have a field day with this arrangement) After about 45 min, I surface and destroy the
merchant with gunfire (approx 30 shots) I then beat a hasty retreat without having to worry about aircraft. (will be different later in the war, bigger & longer range planes) Always the escort
will break from the convoy and head back for my position after I
have surfaced. I have seen this all 3 times. One time I made an
end run while he was away and got 2 more sinkings in the convoy before he returned. Leaving the convoy is a flaw in the way escorts should behave, at least till they get about 4 or 5 escorts for each convoy. This convoy had 20 merchants and 7 were American. All the C3s and T3s were American ships. The Brit ones
I sunk were C2s and T2s. Many Brit ships were smaller and I usually don't waste torps on those in a convoy, only on single ship
encounters....


JIM

[The Avon Lady]

I have a simple mission. There are 2 objectives:

1. Sink a ship.

2. Evade.

I have no problem defining the 1st objective.

I have no idea how to get the 2nd one defined. I've searched here, read Red Devil's tutorial and read the editing doc that comes with the game. Nada!

I want the 2nd objective to be met in one of two ways:

1. Succeed in moving to within a certain location on the world map.

or

2. Move a certain distance away from the closest enemy ship.

Does this have anything to do with "map zones" and, if so, how do you define them?

Help appreciated. TIA! :up:

[The Avon Lady]

OK, I've figure out how to define map zones. Just make sure no objects are selected by left clicking on any empty area of the map, then right click and select Add Map Zone.

So I assume triggers and objectives can be made to check for the player unit's presence within a defined zone.

Now more questions:

1. What are map notes? Do they show up when the mission is played, like map markers?

2. Are map zones only round? Can zones be rectangular or oval shaped?

3. My earlier question remains: is there a way to trigger a completed objective when the player is beyond a certain distance from one or more other units? This would, for example, indicate a successful egress operation.

[Gizzmoe]

1. What are map notes? Do they show up when the mission is played, like map markers?

They only show up in the ME.

2. Are map zones only round?

Unfortunately yes.

3. My earlier question remains: is there a way to trigger a completed objective when the player is beyond a certain distance from one or more other units?

No, not really. Of course you could use "Reach Zone" for that, but that´s way too much work and also doesn´t make really sense...

[The Avon Lady]

1. What are map notes? Do they show up when the mission is played, like map markers?
They only show up in the ME.
How unfortunate. So I assume there is no way to place markers on the map for the player to view.

In which case, is there an easy way to determine what the grid boundaries and IDs are in the mission editor's map?

Suppose I want to set up a map zone surrounding a particular grid, say AE76. Can this be easily achieved by some sort of visual identification of the grids in the mission editor?

[The Avon Lady]

In which case, is there an easy way to determine what the grid boundaries and IDs are in the mission editor's map?

Suppose I want to set up a map zone surrounding a particular grid, say AE76. Can this be easily achieved by some sort of visual identification of the grids in the mission editor?
I asked the question. I'll answer it: no. However, there are 2 workarounds to accomplish this.

The first one is to drag the players sub in the mission editor to the location you want to identify by grid number. Save the mission, start the mission in SH3, go straight to the navigation map and you've got the gird number. Remember to zero out the player sub's random radius start location before doing this.

Another method is to download and install the MQK Converter utility (http://web.telia.com/~u51008935/converter.html). Unfortunately, its data file does not contain info for the lattitude/longitude location in my mission. Oh well!

[The Avon Lady]

I have 3 objectives in my mission:

Sink target1
Sink target2
Reach mapzone1

I have the following 3 triggers defined:

Failed to sink target1
Failed to sink target2
Reached mapzone1

I have an event to issue a message should all 3 of the above triggers be true. Yet when I run the mission in SH3 and I go to mapzone1 without sinking anything to test this out, the event is not triggered, resulting in no message being displayed.

How come? :-? :cry:

[Col7777]

I'm far from being an expert on this, but what I did to get the grid number was zoom in/out the map till it is the same or similar size to the grid map you got in the SH3 box, then I put my sub as near as damn it to that location, usually it isn't that far out.
I look at certain bits of land sticking out and use that as a kind of maker.

[The Avon Lady]

I'm far from being an expert on this, but what I did to get the grid number was zoom in/out the map till it is the same or similar size to the grid map you got in the SH3 box, then I put my sub as near as damn it to that location, usually it isn't that far out.
I look at certain bits of land sticking out and use that as a kind of maker.
I'm in the mid-Altantic. No landmass to measure next to. Just water everywhere! :lost:

[The Avon Lady]

Another question, possibly related:

What is the "Message repeated until received" checkbox for in the event defintion window? :-?

[Col7777]

OK but did you try to shrink the map in the editor to match something like the map you got in the box, look accross to the USA or Europe or Iceland and estimate your position, it won't be far out.

[The Avon Lady]

OK but did you try to shrink the map in the editor to match something like the map you got in the box, look accross to the USA or Europe or Iceland and estimate your position, it won't be far out.
With the 2 methods I mentioned above, I can get accuracy down to 10-20 meters.

[The Avon Lady]

/bump

Nobody knows nothin'? :oops:

[The Avon Lady]

/bump

Nobody? :cry:

If someone can help, please email me.

[Jace11]

don't know, upload it so peeps can have a look. I'm not sure the SH3 editor handles logic in objectives too well.

I imagine the message thing will mean it is repeatedly sent. If you are submerged (deep) you cant receive it, so i guess it just keeps sending it till you do..

[The Avon Lady]

Here's a copy of the SP mission, Royal Flush (http://www.filefront.com/?filepath=/theofpfaq/sh3/SH3_Mission_RoyalFlush.rar).

There is nothing great about the mission. I haven't even tweaked it much. This is mainly a learning exercise for me.

Help appreciated. :up:

[Jace11]

Hmm, well I had a quick look, and my opinion is the "failed" objectives are not working.

Nothing to do with your mission, but I think "Ship X sunk = failed" cannot be used to trigger events. Looking at the objective, you cannot set any time limit or anything else, therefore as long as the ship exists the possibility of meeting the objective remains. Therefore as an objective, it can't be failed without linking it to another variable. So your Transports exist when you reach the map zone, however the objective doesn't count this as a failure to sink them. You could go back and sink them or sink them later on their journey, basically it is open ended.

Now linking this with another objective (Reach Zone) would be the way to try and get it work (as you tried), but it looks like it just doesn't work like that in this editor. Seems to me that the problem with the "failed" is carried over into the events, so those events where you egress and don't sink anything are never met as some objectives are open ended and not met...

It is like a horrid logic puzzle. Note the editor doesn't really have AND OR NOT etc for linking objectives so its not as versetile as other game editors.

No idea if there is a fix for this.

[The Avon Lady]

Hmm, well I had a quick look, and my opinion is the "failed" objectives are not working.

Nothing to do with your mission, but I think "Ship X sunk = failed" cannot be used to trigger events. Looking at the objective, you cannot set any time limit or anything else, therefore as long as the ship exists the possibility of meeting the objective remains. Therefore as an objective, it can't be failed without linking it to another variable. So your Transports exist when you reach the map zone, however the objective doesn't count this as a failure to sink them. You could go back and sink them or sink them later on their journey, basically it is open ended.
I have not fully tested but I think I've found the solution. It requies setting the trigger's ObjState value to -1. I believe that means that the objective is neither passed(0?) nor failed (1?).

This can be set in the editor by leaving the objective status dropdown list on blank.

Just uploaded my latest version of the mission. Try it if you like. :D

[von Buelow]

1) Can aircraft carriers actually launch/recover aircraft?

2) Anyone know of a tutorial/instructions on triggers (how to) that they could link here please? I see adding in map zones and such, but cant figure out how to go from there.

3) If you add subs to a custom mission, will they help out?

4) Re #3, will they shoot at you (since the deck gun AI will shoot at other subs, I figured they just might)?

For anyone with these answers, thank you in advance! :arrgh!:

[Col7777]

As for questions 3 & 4.

I've joined AI subs to a British convoy, I placed them a few miles away, they eventually join the convoy but when they get in range they open fire and the battle commences.

Try making a small convoy and then join the subs, have them on a kind of collision course, place yourself a bit behind them and watch the action on external camera.
I've done the same thing with AI ships too, great fun. :)

[von Buelow]

#1 fix for the next patch

- DO NOT ALLOW AI FRIENDLIES OR NEUTRALS TO FIRE AT EACHOTHER!!! :hulk: :hulk: :hulk:


stupid - stupid - stupid !!!!

[Col7777]

I'm not sure you understood what I did in my above post, I added German AI subs to a British convoy, this gave the effect of a wolfpack attack.

[von Buelow]

I do understand, my comment was off topic, speaking generally.

I wish this "feature" of AI could be editable - in that you can check/uncheck if you want them to fire on friendlies.

I'd like to leave my deck gunner firing during multiplay without firing on my teammates - and vice versa!

[von Buelow]

anyone for help on #2 ??

[von Buelow]

I have another idea for a custom mission...

Start out with 4-6 ships... in a small convoy. Each time one ship is sunk, there are 2 that are spawned, from a relatively nearby position. (Or for a variation, all the ships in a round must be sunk to spawn the next round.)

And this contines for 4 "rounds" so that there will be a total of 32-48 ships to be sunk. Each round would spawn harder & bigger ships.




Is this possible in the editor?

[Argus]

Nice idea, but the spawn part of the editor is broken. I already tried to spawn several surface vessels, when a certain unit was destroyed ... it doesn't work. :(

That's one of the bugs, that I wanted to get fixed before the official support of SHIII ended. Too bad ...

[kiwi_2005]

Im making myself some missions, sort of the same sub carries on from each one patrol to the next. So therefore my patrols will have the Primary as Return to base to complete mission.

To create a Return to base, i use the Map zone feature right? But how do i stop if from triggering as soon as ive started the mission i get "Mission Complete" Do i have to make it so my return to base will be a different base from the one im starting.

[kiwi_2005]

What was i thinking :88) If i want to setup my single player missions to make primary return to base, i dont have to do anything, all i have to do in the mission is RETURN TO BASE. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Spent hrs hacking my brain for nothing... :roll:

[Kompressor]

Its really "zum kotzen" (in german) that the spawning function isn't working. As others did I tried anything. Nada.
What kind of thrilling missions we could create if this function would work!

Really fast and out of the nothing coming destroyers for example. Or ships departuring the harbour by time while your u-boat is in that habour. Well... :88) it doesn't work.

Anything new on this topic?

Maybe we have to edit the mission-files manually. In the campaign there is sometimes a nasty beaming noise when you arrive in the boat, so I think the funktion is implemented.
in a savegamefile of the campaign I found commands like "DepartureLong=xxxxxxx.xxxxx" "DepartureHeading=xxx" etc.
But until now I could not bring it to work.
If there is anything new on this topic: Give it to me. ;-)
I tried for days and I simply do not accept that the spawning function does not work. It can not be true (I hope).

[booger2005]

I've looked into this too and think it may be a poorly implemented feature, and not a "bug". My reason for thinking this?

Without even using spawn, if you place in a ship within visual range of your boat scheduled to appear 1 minute after the mission begins, it will not appear. However, Navel Bases can appear after your mission starts. So possibly there is some mechanism by which having a "ghost ship" to appear before your very eyes is not allowed.

On the otherhand, the delete feature is unreliable also, not disabled but not right, either. (If I remember righ I tried to get ship 1 to dissapear when ship 2 was sunk, but ship 2 was the one that dissappears and for no apparent reason)

Incidently, I've also had a lot of trouble with the time trigger. If you schedule a radio message to appear more than a few hours in the future, it will appear as soon as the mission starts instead.

:roll: :down: :nope:

[uhu]

Hi,

Is there a way, to add some time before a ship goes to its travel?
For example, it stay for 20 minutes, after that, it goes with 10 knots on its way.

[booger2005]

Hi,

Is there a way, to add some time before a ship goes to its travel?
For example, it stay for 20 minutes, after that, it goes with 10 knots on its way.

No. But, what you can do is have it loop around in a circle slowly for the length of time you want, then move away quickly.

[uhu]

Hi,

Is there a way, to add some time before a ship goes to its travel?
For example, it stay for 20 minutes, after that, it goes with 10 knots on its way.

No. But, what you can do is have it loop around in a circle slowly for the length of time you want, then move away quickly.

Thanks, thats's also something, even if it's not wat I wanted.
I experimenced about the take a same type ship over the other, and when the 1st one exits from the scenario, in the same time, a moving one appears - but the moving one dont showed up, and the 1st one don't dissapeared. :(

[booger2005]

In single missions, its impossible for a ship to show up in visual range (or possibly at all) after a mission starts. This includes spawning using the "Events" options or scheduling any ships to appear after the mission start. There has been some speculation/debate whether this is a bug or a feature to prevent "phanton ships" from appearing out of nowhere. I too have had problems with deleting ships in single missions. I think its bugged.

Trust me, its going to be impossible to do exactly what you want. Sorry :roll: I've been there too. :damn:

[uhu]

In single missions, its impossible for a ship to show up in visual range (or possibly at all) after a mission starts. This includes spawning using the "Events" options or scheduling any ships to appear after the mission start. There has been some speculation/debate whether this is a bug or a feature to prevent "phanton ships" from appearing out of nowhere. I too have had problems with deleting ships in single missions. I think its bugged.

Trust me, its going to be impossible to do exactly what you want. Sorry :roll: I've been there too. :damn:

Well, thanks for the info! :yep:
And what about this things in the campaign? Because, I make the scenario first, but after that I want it import it in the campaign (it worked with others' made scenarios).

[robbierob2005]

Is it possible to Spawn a unit when an objective is completed.
Hoiw do you do that.
I want to make a mission when you have to destroy a BB in a harbour. And when you succeed I want to spawn an unit so it's difficult to escape.

Thanks

[Safe-Keeper]

First, go to the "Mission" drop-down menu and choose "Triggers". Make a new one, and set it to "Unit Destroyed". Select the BB from the list that becomes available.

Second, go to "Events" (again from the "Mission" drop-down list). Create a new event and choose "Update Instance". Choose the ship to appear and check the "Spawn" check-box.

I'm not 100% sure on how to make a ship start outside of the game for then to be placed by the trigger, to be honest. You'll have to do a search on that or hope someone else replies.

[robbierob2005]

I'll give it a try. Thanks!

[kylania]

Wonder if this could be used to imitate asking for an escort home? Like if the player submits a patrol report while 30km away from home base a minesweeper appears and when the player closes within 5km it begins it's waypointed path back to the sub pens?

Does SH3 support triggers from range/radio actions?

[ACSoft]

Hello,

Can anybody confirm if this function is KO or not in SH3 1.4b ?

If not, can you tell me EXACTLY the conditions to let it work properly ?

It is the second time I try to use it, but come again to the conclusion it should be KO. I read on forums that to work, the unit or group has to be defined at a minimum distance of 20 km of the human controlled vessel. I read also that unit(s) time filter has to be "used" but no comments about how. Anyway, I do all the imaginable tests around this "Update instance" function, but all were unsuccessful.

Even the stock mission "Malta", which use this function don't work. The unit "LBSSunderlandMKIII#1", which normally should "enter in the dance" only if my sub enter into zone "Convoy air cover", in fact, always start to patrol immediately, no matter if you enter or not into this zone with your sub.

The same with the air attack unit, which normally are triggered by a time trigger. I changed the time of the trigger one year later, but all the air groups come anyway.

Thanks in forward for any informations about that.

Regards,

ACS

[Mush Martin]

Hello,

Can anybody confirm if this function is KO or not in SH3 1.4b ? ACS
If not, can you tell me EXACTLY the conditions to let it work properly?
I do not understand the Reference KO here can you expand?


It is the second time I try to use it, but come again to the conclusion it should be KO. I read on forums that to work, the unit or group has to be defined at a minimum distance of 20 km of the human controlled vessel. I read also that unit(s) time filter has to be "used" but no comments about how. Anyway, I do all the imaginable tests around this "Update instance" function, but all were unsuccessful.
If I am Following you. You must set the beginning date of the
time filter to the month your mission is in. units will show red blue
or green as per their dispositions on relevant dates. I have
never read the bit about AI Units or groups having to be
at any distance mine often spawn within 1000 m for single units
or most often 3000 for Surface groups or convoys.


Even the stock mission "Malta", which use this function don't work. The unit "LBSSunderlandMKIII#1", which normally should "enter in the dance" only if my sub enter into zone "Convoy air cover", in fact, always start to patrol immediately, no matter if you enter or not into this zone with your sub.

The same with the air attack unit, which normally are triggered by a time trigger. I changed the time of the trigger one year later, but all the air groups come anyway.

ACS
This last sounds like you are looking at Random generated groups that spawn regularily and exist for a long time or the duration of the campaign
Random Generated Groups can be set to make either defined or random
units and spawn them as fast as once an hour or assumably 96 hrs but
it may be more for the max. They can also enter on a certain date
and leave on a certain date.

You would use these to make main convoys not historical recreations.

[ACSoft]

Sorry, we say often KO (Knock Out) in french. I mean broken.

Did-you tryed practically what you explain ?

Because myself, I was never able to obtain a triggered spawn. Unit or Group are immediately in action, whatever you do with the time filter.

Look in the stock "Malta" mission. Like it is designed, the SunderlandMKIII aircraft is supposed to spawn only if your sub trigger it, by entering into a zone. But it does not work at all. The aircraft is in action from the begin of the mission. You can test this by diving your sub with engines stopped (to not be detected), then go outside (F12) and use x32. You will see it passing over the camera at regular interval.

ACS

[ACSoft]

Eureka !!!

I was finally able to spawn a vessel by a trigger:

Function Spawn is, in fact, a way to anticipate the "Entry date & time".

This mean the "Entry date & time" must be defined in the future, relatively to the "Mission start date & time" defined in "Parameters". But to occur, IT IS TRUE that the distance between the unit or group to spawn and the human controlled vessel, MUST BE of ABOUT 30 Km !!! Otherwise spawn DO NOT OCCUR unless this condition become true.

Was difficult to determine & check. To found a location, with free camera, at such a distance is not easy. Finally I used a chain of small fishboats to guide me to the place.

I suppose the "Delete" function is a way to anticipate the "Exit date & time" in the same manner, but I do not test it for now.

Hope these explanations will allow other mission designers to not loose all the time I lost myself on this, to finally found how it work.

Shame on UBISoft for the documentation of this Mission Editor.

ACS

[Mush Martin]

Ive made many Random groups that spawn much much closer
but I havent used triggers much that im afraid is for a little
later.

mission building is its own art. like skinning or hexediting
but in mission building the medium for the artist is timing.

MM

[ACSoft]

Yes, but you probably don't use the function "Update instance > spawn" to generate "random groups". You just use the function "Add random generated group". So, this is simply a different feature with different behaviors.

ACS

[Mush Martin]

The ship chain was a great idea. :up:

[Mittelwaechter]

Hi ACSoft,

would you please be so kind and explain what "trigger" you're talking about?
Do you really trigger the spawn of an unit by reaching a zone or completing an objective? Or is it a "time trigger" by entry date and time?

Would you mind to post or send a small example?

Regards,

[Mush Martin]

as you may have guessed from the above I myself still have limited
experience with triggers but triggers can be Geographical Temporal
or mission based

that is based on where you are when your are or what you do.

You can make a map zone and once you sail your sub into that zone
it will trigger geographically or you can set a trigger in ME parameters
to spawn a unit once youve sunk a specific target ship or a certain
amount of tonnage of a certain type etc.

triggers can spawn units groups or radio messages

I hope this helps a little the best way is to set up an labratory mission
to test on.

MM

[Mittelwaechter]

Thanks for your answer, Mush Martin.

Maybe I didn't explain my qustions good enough.
I know the editor very well and I scripted some SinglePlayerMissions when patch 1.2 was in the line...

I did my "research" for triggering a "spawn unit" event some twenty months ago but failed to success.
ACSoft describes a solution for this problem, but I want to make sure it is a "trigger" for an "event" as the editor defines those values. If so I'd like to understand the procedure.

Is it a players action based trigger or is it a time based trigger?


ACSoft?

[ACSoft]

Thanks for your answer, Mush Martin.

Maybe I didn't explain my qustions good enough.
I know the editor very well and I scripted some SinglePlayerMissions when patch 1.2 was in the line...

I did my "research" for triggering a "spawn unit" event some twenty months ago but failed to success.
ACSoft describes a solution for this problem, but I want to make sure it is a "trigger" for an "event" as the editor defines those values. If so I'd like to understand the procedure.

Is it a players action based trigger or is it a time based trigger?


ACSoft?


Yes, you can "trigger" spawn of units or groups

Here is a pratical example:

Create a test mission, let say to date 1.9.1942

In front of your submarine close to it (1 km), create a small zone you may name, for example, "SpawnMyUnit".

Now, create the unit "MyUnit" to be triggered WITH AN ENTRY DATE IN THE FUTURE, let say 30.9.1942 AND AT A DISTANCE OF MINIMUM 25 TO 30 KM OF THE POSITION YOUR SUBMARINE WILL BE, WHEN ENTERING INTO THE ZONE.

Now, create a trigger "MyTrigger" of type "Reach Zone" using zone "SpawnMyUnit".

Finally, create an Event of type "Update instance", option "Spawn", instance name "MyUnit" and triggered by "MyTrigger".

If you want to check it work, you have a problem, because to found and survey a precise location at about 25 to 30 km of the submarine is not easy, especially with an invisible unit !!! So do the following:

Create a chain of small fishing boat going to the position of your "MyUnit", with the last fishing boat close to your unit.

Now, run your test mission, follow your chain of fishing boat with external free camera, start your submarine full ahead and wait. You will see that your unit will spawn, when the submarine reach the zone. If not, your unit is probably too close.

You might improve this test by also creating a message Event, triggered by "MyTrigger", so you will know when zone is reached.

In this example, we use a "Reach Zone Trigger" to trigger the spawn, but of course any other type of trigger will also do the job, AS LONG AS THE DISTANCE BETWEEN YOUR SUB AND THE UNIT IS FAR ENOUGH, WHEN THE TRIGGER TURN ON.

Hope this help,

ACS

[Mittelwaechter]

Thank you ACSoft, for this great explanation.
I'll give it a try.

Mittelwaechter

[Egan]

Great stuff ACsoft. I've been having a nightmare getting this stuff to work - only difference is I'm trying to do it in SH4. If you don't mind I'm going to post your information in the SH4 mission Designers forum. I suspect that a lot of the information for SH3 is relevent to SH4 too.

I'm going to go and try out your tip right now - thanks again.

[tater]

Never did get this to work in SH4.

tater

[tater]

Was kind of hoping someone would point out that there is one critical setting you need to make it work, lol.

tater

[dcb]

I have a question and maybe someone here can help me, please.
Recently, I've done some forays into the mission editor, trying to make gamepley a little more interactive in campaign. I attempted to insert combinations of trigger/event/objective in campaign, but no success so far.

I used combinations of triggers/events in single missions and they worked, but when I'm doing the same thing in a campaign layer (_SCR or _RND), the game just ignores them. Is there any way to insert such things into the campaign layers?

If they could be added, it would make the campaign a lot more fun to play. Just imagine a time trigger in the RND layer which, if happening, would send you to dock at La Spezia - for instance - and relocate in the Med, like in Das Boot.

I would be willing to build a lot of such events to be merged with the campaign layers, if I can make the game take them into account.

[Magnito]

I would be willing to build a lot of such events to be merged with the campaign layers, if I can make the game take them into account.

I don't know if campaign_LND, RND and SCR admit [trigger/Event] parameters, but you can add Transmissions in the date tou want in the messages_EN.txt manually.

[dcb]

I don't know if campaign_LND, RND and SCR admit [trigger/Event] parameters, but you can add Transmissions in the date tou want in the messages_EN.txt manually.

Thanks Magnito. I know about editing the radio message files. What I meant was to link such messages to certain triggers, in order to make campaign more interactive. It's no fun to know that on March 12th 1942, at 5:32 AM, BdU asks me to relocate at Salamis. The idea was to - let's say - receive such a message if I reach a certain spot in quadrant, or reach a certain tonnage sunk, or... you name it. I feel this would have brought more life into the campaign, because now my major complaint with the game is the lack of interactivity. And I am not alone in feeling like this. There's at least another subsim member, Wave Skipper, who thought about a creative use of triggers and radio messages as immersion boosters. Unfortunately, his idea would mean throwing away the main plus of SH3 - its dynamic campaign - as well as needing a huge amount of work. Check this thread about his idea:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=127914&highlight=triggers

Ah, I was about to forget. Since I posted the initial message here, I learned 100% for sure that campaign mode does not recognise any trigger. Learned it from my own experiments and also got it confirmed by BigBoyWooly, the very knowledgeable guy who "wrote" the campaign for GWX.

[Magnito]

Ah, I was about to forget. Since I posted the initial message here, I learned 100% for sure that campaign mode does not recognise any trigger. Learned it from my own experiments and also got it confirmed by BigBoyWooly, the very knowledgeable guy who "wrote" the campaign for GWX.

Then, if BigBoyWooly confirmed this... is a bad new. I also think that restrict triggers, events, mapzones to singlemissions limited very much campaigns.

[Koondawg]

Magnito, in SP as well as MP you can add map zones, or say a sinking of a ship/class...tonnage to trigger an event...but as Mark has confirmed (BBW) not in campaign...

[tiggermcse]

I've been messing around for awhile creating single missions. But I am not able to figure out how to spawn ships or groups using triggers and events. I'd like to have a group be spawned nearby when a specific ship is sunk but nothing seems to work.

Also, same type thing with how to spawn a randomly generated group.

Or is this only possible when working with a campaign?

Thanks to any who can teach me what I'm doing.....

[bigboywooly]

Hi and welcome aboard
Units wont usually spawn if within player visual range
Maybe even as far out as rendering range

Have not really played with triggers too much in SP so may be another reason

[peabody]

I've been messing around for awhile creating single missions. But I am not able to figure out how to spawn ships or groups using triggers and events. I'd like to have a group be spawned nearby when a specific ship is sunk but nothing seems to work.

Also, same type thing with how to spawn a randomly generated group.

Or is this only possible when working with a campaign?

Thanks to any who can teach me what I'm doing.....

This post is a bit old but in case you didn't get an answer, nothing will spawn within 20mn of your sub. That includes ships, convoys, task force, planes, Random Generated Groups. It is so things don't just pop up out of nowhere right in front of you. So make sure you are at least that far away.

To spawn a group when you sink a ship:

1. Create the group or ship and set it's entry date in the future (Remember to name it). Also remember to give it waypoints and speed otherwise it will just sit there or sail off in whatever direction it is facing.

2. Create a trigger for the ship destroyed "Unit destroyed" or "Class destroyed" give it a name that will make sense in case you add more triggers. Use those if it is a specific ship you need to destroy, but you can use tonnage if you just want the group to appear if you sink anything. For example if you sink a ship in a convoy and they radio for help, you can use tonnage and just put 1 ton. Then they will spawn whatever you sink. With "unit destroyed" or "class destroyed" it has to be a specific ship or class of ship. That's why you name your group so you will know which one it is if your mission has 20 groups in it.

3. Go to event and "Update Instance" using the name of your group that you created in step 1 (or it can be a single ship) in "Instance name" and check 'spawn". "Add Trigger" and select the trigger you created for the destroyed ship.

Now when you destroy the ship, as long as you are 20nm or more away, the group will spawn and start sailing in the direction of the waypoints you set up.

Hope this helped, I know the post is a couple months old so you may already have the answer.

Peabody

[Col7777]

If I remeber rightly, going back to SH2 you could attach a unit to your sub, it could be miles away but it made its way to you because it was attached.
I did this a few times and it worked, plus you got added support in a battle and they also acted as a decoy so you could attack without too much attention.

I'm not sure if something like this could work in this sim, just a thought,
56

[Kendras]

Incidently, I've also had a lot of trouble with the time trigger. If you schedule a radio message to appear more than a few hours in the future, it will appear as soon as the mission starts instead.

:roll: :down: :nope:

Yes, that's it, I'm having exactly the same problem. It appears to me that the time trigger is bugged if the day written is different from the day when you start the mission.

:down:

[jklm]

I would like to bump this one up please, the reason being I'm trying to get other ship units to spawn when I reach a certain area.
I have even had a lone merchant and kept in visual contact with it hoping it spawns a DD but I have not been successful, I do get aircraft though even in bad storms when any right minded pilot would be safely on the ground.

planes in the middle of the ocean, this is not uncommon in the game silent hunter 5)))

[Aktungbby]

jklm!:Kaleun_Salute: