Uboat's current beta, initial thoughts

[GoldenRivet]

I have had a couple of days to dive back into UBOAT using the new "Unstable - Unstable" beta branch which preceeds full release of the game. Here are my initial reactions.

OVERALL

My honest summation is that what this dev team has done for the submarine simulation genre is nothing short of specacular. Uboat, in its current "vanilla" beta is, in my opinion, the finest example of a world war II subsim yet. And given the forbearers of the genre, thats quite a statement.

frankly, the current beta is to UBOAT, what the GWX mod was to SHIII

IMMERSION

The boat is more alive than ever, the crew whispers in hushed tones when it is appropriate to do so, they make timely and accurate reports, and even read out the basics of radio messages from BDU allowing you to decide if you feel the message is important enough to read it in full text own your own.

an example is the September 1st, 1939 sailing of my boat when we got into the north sea some distance and a radio message was received. I didnt even have to open it. The radio officer simply said something to the effect that he had received a new radio message and it appears we are now at war with Great Britain. Some time later France entered the fray and the radio operator even said that we are only to take defensive actions against the french.

Several other immersive actions have been added to the game, my favorite so far followed a successful first patrol. After some time on our second patrol i found - oddly - that i could not use time acceleration. It was then that i noticed a conversation bubble above one of my sailors, so i clicked it...

"Captain, i found a bottle of champaigne stashed away here"

great... a crew discipline issue was my first thought, but the sailor continued

"there is a note with it... Congratulations on your successful patrol!
~Doenitz"

The champaigne bottle was then added to my inventory in the cabinet storage space. Following our next sinking, i was actually able to ration champaign out to the crew to celebrate.

another immersive occurrence had me receiving a radio message from BDU informing us that a crewman's family has welcomed a newborn baby. You then have the option of finding this crewman and informing him of the news and witnessing his grateful reaction.

Im sure there are many other similar situations that i have not yet witnessed

SMALL ENHANCEMENTS = BIG IMPROVEMENTS

other terrific improvements come in the form of many small details.

Such as the Kiel Canal, you can traverse it one waypoint at a time and take in the scenic views, or you can "fast travel" through the canal, arriving in the north sea after a fade to black followed by the cimenatic text "11 hours later" where you can resume your own waypoint plotting. This can also be done on leaving port, once you have traveled a certain distance from the dock, you have the option of fast travel out to sea

The TDC is now fully functional and can be used directly, or by an officer assigned to it. In fact i am very happy with the way torpedo data solutions are now much more realistically carried out. At the attack periscope, when locked on a target and the target is identified, you still time the target for speed, gauge AOB, and range... but this means nothing unless you hit the little text bubbles next to where you have entered this data.

Clicking on the text bubble by a data box actually shouts (or whispers) the given parameter to the officer manning the TDC, which he in turn sets based on your collected data.

"Update target data, speed... 8 knots!" after a second or two, the little white light next to this data point illuminates indicating the officer has entered it into the TDC

"Angle on bow... 60 degrees right!" again, after a momentary delay, the light illuminates

"Range... 1700 meters!" again, the light illuminates

after a few seconds the small light indicating the torpedo gyro angle is set illuminates and you are ready to fire.

to me, this is so far the most realistic and satisfying approach to firing off a torpedo to be had yet in a subsim, largely because you feel like you are part of a crew carrying out these actions rather than just entering data quickly and pressing a button as a player.

There are many other details that you as a captain are forced to confront requiring you to run your Uboat in new and unique ways - ways that are arguably more true to reality.

In many prior subsims we watched a small circle race across a map, until such time that we had to do a sound check or actually make an attack on a target. The filller in UBOAT changes this completely.

On my most recent patrol, about a day out of Kiel, passing Helgoland, i was again dropped out of time compression. and a sailor had something to say. Apparently a fight broke out between two sailors, and the aggressor seriously injured one of my men. As the captain i had a couple of choices with the errant sailor (1) let the man off with a warning or (2) have him arrested and court martialed for the offense - both of which have different effects on the morale of the crew.

A medical officer tended to the wounded man, and his wound was such that he needed a hospital. So, we diverted to Helgoland, dropped off the wounded man, and had the other arrested. While in port, i took advantage to top off fuel, take on another 2 sailors to replace those i had lost, and resumed my voyage with nary a day lost. In subsims of the past... you just dont have these kinds of plausible realistic scenarios to deal with. I dont have the documentation to show that such a thing ever happened aboard a U-Boat, but could it have? have similar events taken place? sure

Now, rather than having a bunch of 2D representations of crewmen on a crew management / damage control screen like years past... we have actual crew moving around the boat that perform their various jobs, they eat, they lay in their bunks reading magazines... or they lay there seriously injured with the clock ticking and their fate in your hands. Such things certainly add a unique and interesting dynamic to the game play.

EDIT: we have the green triangle in the persicope... looking for a way to make this go away, and i am unsure why developers continue this tradition. i think maybe its an inside joke. LOL

PLAY AS CAPTAIN MODE


This is the mode i was most looking forward to - and i will give it the fact that it is "experimental" - but it has turned out to be my least favorite way to play Uboat so far.

firstly, it eliminates all of the external views. while this may be a hard core element for some players, UBOAT is visually stunning, and i feel that those exterior shots need to be admired from time to time... unfortunately this mode seems to trap you in first person perspective taking away a lot of that element of being able to appreciate the beauty of UBOAT

secondly, this mode has teething issues that just pushed me back to more traditional means of play. I think they need to erase the captain's need for rest, for example... otherwise there are several hour periods in game, that your captain just wont be available. Especially if he has reached the point of exhaustion.

I am going to tinker with this mode a bit more before i really make my mind up on it... but i find the traditional means of play to be far more gratifying at present.

HARD CORE OPTIONS

just to name off a few of the things that enhance the challenge of uboat is the map contacts options can now be totally disabled. the sonar operator will provide you bearing and distance to a sound target, but actually navigating 30 miles away and finding the target can be a bit of a guessing game with this mode enabled.

Gone are the signposts showing the source of a sound contact - which i am thankful for this - as the Dev team has taken on a more traditional radial line on the map showing the general direction of a sound contact rather than plotting its movement across the map - this puts the experience more in line with what popular subsims of the past (SH3 / 4) have offered up.

EDIT: there are now options where you do not interact with headquarters at all, and technology is researched and completed on a historic timeline. I am glad to have this, as i found sending crew to research and unlock new technology on a whim to be unrealistic.

SOUND EFFECTS

bone stock sound effects have been dialed up and modified extensively. The deck gun for example now sounds like it packs one helluva punch. Additionally, a great many speech files have been added to the game - gone is the "schneller schneller" at each engine telegraph selection... they now speak out the selections individually. these are just a couple of many examples.

STABILITY

for something called an unstable beta - i have not experienced a single crash to desktop. In fact, with only the occasional stutter, or pause (such as when entering a new port) my PC has handled the current release trouble free... and she is 8 years old now; Intel Core i7-6700k CPU @ 4.00GHz, 4001 Mhz with Radeon RX 480, and 16G RAM im certainly not running the latest and greatest game tower.

CONCLUSION

Uboat is charting new horizons with its methods of gamelpay and immersive features. The feel of the current beta is more natural than UBOAT has been at any previous state of release. Once the final version is released, it will hold its own... and as usual, eing intentionally easier to mod, UBOAT will be - for years to come - a formidable title and a favorite of any avid subsimmer willing to commit to a bit steeper than traditional learning curve. And one thing is for sure, this small dev team loves this project, and their continued support and committment to it show 100% in their product, to them, i offer my thanks sincerely. Job well done!

so... post in reply, what have you enjoyed or not enjoyed about the current beta? I'd love to hear your feedback

[Paajtor]

Nice summery!
I'm not playing this yet, but I do watch plenty of streams & video's about Uboat.

What strikes me from the beginning, and has carried over into this beta, is the floating physics of the uboat.
When it's stationary in - let's say rough seas - it looks like it floats on rails.
In reality, it should be much more rocking up&down and rolling sideways.

And when travelling...again in rougher seas, I miss the pulled-down effect on the stern.
Ie, a vessel's screw(s) have a tendency to keep the stern a bit pulled down, because of their sheer force.
While the bow gets pushed upwards, while riding the waves...and splashing down in every gulf valley.
I miss this behaviour in Uboat.

How do you feel about this?
And...can modders change this behaviour?
:salute:

[GoldenRivet]

It has been my experience that the boat does rock more fore and aft than port to starbd but there are both pitching and rolling motions apparent.

I give the sea physics a solid B+ in Uboat. all around however i guess im just not as concerned about that specific element. I felt that the boat in SHIII would just cut through just about any sea unabated. GWX did the most to fix this by making the boat lose some speed when plunging the bow in rough seas.

I think UBOAT gets it about as close as the game engine can. :hmmm:

[Paajtor]

Yeah I remember the GWX fix indeed.
Do you know whether the Devs read these forums?
Tbh, I never post on Steam.

[dark270]

i have three patrols under the belt, and absolutely addicted and love this game....ok back to the game:arrgh!:

[GoldenRivet]

Yeah I remember the GWX fix indeed.
Do you know whether the Devs read these forums?
Tbh, I never post on Steam.

i think? maybe?

it would certainly be wise of them to do this since subsim is probably the largest hub and gathering place on earth for everything related to the genre

it is also - i have always argued - the very best online community to be found anywhere :up:

[Quasimodo]

Yeah I remember the GWX fix indeed.
Do you know whether the Devs read these forums?
Tbh, I never post on Steam.

Yes they do read the comments in the 'Discussion' forum. (In Steam). I've been playing U-Boat since it first came out. During that time the devs have always added updates and fixes to the game. And now with the Beta addition you can start your career with a Type II. :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

[rik007]

I had a communist on board which was spreading propaganda. I opted for a court martial.

[Trabant Dave]

I had a communist on board which was spreading propaganda. I opted for a court martial.

Did you make him walk the plank?

[les green01]

Hadn't play in awhile sounds like I need to though

[hombre al agua]

With the beta has come a 200 pages game manual. I am very surprised and happy for that.


The future of this game looks promising both the simulation and the RPG aspect have been enhanced and after the 1.0 release sure DLCs will come and the mod community will grow and stabilize.

[Paajtor]

Agreed.

About the RPG aspect:
For 1st-person play, I'd love to see more improvements to NPC appearance and movement.
Less twitchy and awkward, please.

And...their hands are to big!
Plus, I would like more variety in body-shapes (a skinny guy here, a heavier guy there).

[GoldenRivet]

Agreed.

About the RPG aspect:
For 1st-person play, I'd love to see more improvements to NPC appearance and movement.
Less twitchy and awkward, please.

And...their hands are to big!
Plus, I would like more variety in body-shapes (a skinny guy here, a heavier guy there).

You can edit every officer and character aboard ship to your liking, not just the captain. :salute:

[Paajtor]

Good to hear :up:

[XLjedi]

Reinstalled it two days ago, after I had banished it 5-years ago for being the Sims on a boat.

Generally, seems to be much improved over the last 5-years. Seems very odd though that they are giving us access to the TDC only now? ...in unstable? It was the main reason I dismissed it originally. Figured it should've been a top priority when I left it last time. However, my return to the game seems well-timed if I can figure out how to EFFICIENTLY use the TDC.

As I try to transition back, similar issues seem to be present. The UI to transition between stations is overly clunky. I am hopeful that after I sink about 30-40 hours into it, I might get my sea legs.

Currently, I struggle with what feels like a forced method for determining target solutions. The interaction between entering the TDC info, engaging/disengaging the TDC solution to the scope, and even simple things like plotting a navigation route that might include 2 legs all seems beyond my reach.

However, I am hopeful that I will become acclimated over time and not just continue to feel annoyed by the UI. I have heard the game is mod-friendly, so I am already contemplating (once I figure out how I am supposed to function effectively) perhaps adding the buttons I need for TDC, Attack Map, Scope View, etc. ...without feeling stuck in possession of a crew member. I particularly hate the idea of assigning an attack solution to an officer and waiting on a countdown timer. I have tried the hardmode and still see things like the ship position appear on the map, seems difficult to get the settings the way I want them, my crew is overly helpful with perfect info. I don't like right-clicking on a map ship icon to bring up my torpedo launch menu.

Hopefully, all these things I will be able to tune more to my liking.

[GoldenRivet]

to me the input of the TDC is very realistic

enter it and hit the speech bubble to send it to the officer manning the TDC inputs the data for you. once the gyro syncs up, shoot, that simple.

no reason for the guy on the attack scope to be tinkering with the TDC directly

[XLjedi]

to me the input of the TDC is very realistic

enter it and hit the speech bubble to send it to the officer manning the TDC inputs the data for you. once the gyro syncs up, shoot, that simple.

no reason for the guy on the attack scope to be tinkering with the TDC directly

The TDC is right there next to the attack scope. Why do I need Fritz cuddling with me in the con?

There is no speech bubble, I'm selecting the TDC and turning the dials. I just want to setup a 90°S/P AoB, with generic 500m distance (since the distance won't matter anyway), enter a target speed, put the attack scope on 0° and engage the TDC to the scope wire bearing when I want it to calc my gyro angle. After my first salvo, set target speed to zero, scope wire at 0°, and engage the TDC for point-n-shoot capability.

I'm going to go out of my way to figure out how to keep the crew away from the obs/attack scope, TDC, and anything else to do with a firing solution. While I'm at it, they could stay away from the hydrophone too. These are the things I like to manage.

[hombre al agua]

I have tried the hardmode and still see things like the ship position appear on the map ... I don't like right-clicking on a map ship icon to bring up my torpedo launch menu.


if the option "no map contacts" is selected only your boat appears on the map, and with the real navigation mod not even your boat (but this mod is still not working in the beta)

[Aktungbby]

hombre al agua!:Kaleun_Salute:

[XLjedi]

if the option "no map contacts" is selected only your boat appears on the map, and with the real navigation mod not even your boat (but this mod is still not working in the beta)

Yeah, I had the no map contacts selected, but was running the torpedo tutorial, so I think the tutorial overrode my settings. Looking forward to another run at it tonight outside of the tutorial without contacts.

It seems as though the hydrophone graphic may still be a dead giveaway on target position. ...but will see.

[Ruby2000]

Hi GoldenRivet,

the devs are of course also reading on Subsim. They are currently very busy with fixing and optimisations

They really appreciate your posts! Thank you very much! :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

Cheers Ruby

[Ruby2000]

Hi XLjedi,

you basically have the option of creating everything through the officers, everything manually or a mix of both. You have to find the way you like it best.

If you are at the UZO/Peri, you can either enter the values in the attack UI and send it to the TDC (button Speak bubble) or switch to the TDC and set it manually. Man an officer at the TDC so that you can always switch between the target and the TDC on the left.

If you do not want an officer to perform any tasks on his own, remove the officer's role or set the priority to 0.

Use the M button to switch to the map and back to the initial station.

You do not wait for a timer. Based on the input from you or the officer on the TDC, the gyro angle is calculated and transmitted to the torpedo receiver and torps. You can watch the torpedo receiver as the angle is set (torp station). As soon as this is set, the white lamp lights up "Deckung" on the TDC and on the Torp UI. The motors and duration correspond approx. to the originals.

If you want to use the levers, (on TDC or on torp-tubes) make sure that the boxes are set correctly.

Cheers Ruby :Kaleun_Salute:

[FesterShinetop]

With the beta has come a 200 pages game manual. I am very surprised and happy for that.


The future of this game looks promising both the simulation and the RPG aspect have been enhanced and after the 1.0 release sure DLCs will come and the mod community will grow and stabilize.

There is a manual? Where can I find that?

[Egan]

I bought it before Christmas, but never got into that much. Tried it again a couple of days past and it's probably the most fun I've had with a sub sim since Aces of The Deep. Still working out the systems and crew management etc, but I think that in a couple of years we're going to be putting it in that top bracket with the original SH and AoTD.

[hombre al agua]

There is a manual? Where can I find that?


The manual can only be accesed while playing inestable beta, they will make a pdf for the realese.

Upper right menu - Uboatopedia to open it or click in the "i" icon that appears in the upper left in some screens like the torpedo computer screen, periscope screen etc to open relevant parts of the manual.

[Laffertytig]

The TDC is right there next to the attack scope. Why do I need Fritz cuddling with me in the con?

There is no speech bubble, I'm selecting the TDC and turning the dials. I just want to setup a 90°S/P AoB, with generic 500m distance (since the distance won't matter anyway), enter a target speed, put the attack scope on 0° and engage the TDC to the scope wire bearing when I want it to calc my gyro angle. After my first salvo, set target speed to zero, scope wire at 0°, and engage the TDC for point-n-shoot capability.

I'm going to go out of my way to figure out how to keep the crew away from the obs/attack scope, TDC, and anything else to do with a firing solution. While I'm at it, they could stay away from the hydrophone too. These are the things I like to manage.

Are you sure your playing the unstable version with the new tdc?

There absolutely is speech bubbles for the tdc when looking through the scope in the latest game version.

It mimics the captain telling the officer on the tdc his data readings which is how it happened historically.

The new tdc is an incredible piece of work, I've been having a lot of fun with it.

[XLjedi]

Are you sure your playing the unstable version with the new tdc?

There absolutely is speech bubbles for the tdc when looking through the scope in the latest game version.

It mimics the captain telling the officer on the tdc his data readings which is how it happened historically.

The new tdc is an incredible piece of work, I've been having a lot of fun with it.

I am playing the unstable version. I'm just new to it and had no idea the dinky icons inside of or next to the data entry was shaped like a chat bubble. Also, I want to be at the TDC and be able to have those data entry values that I can type in. Which was primarily why I said there are no chat bubbles, I'm standing at the TDC turning dials.

My problem is managing the TDC directly and not having any indication or feel for how to easily engage/disengage it from the scope wire. Those icons and data entry bubbles you speak of only seem to be available if you are looking at a target through the scope and have it locked-in. I'd like to setup my attacks with similar data entry without having a ship visible in the attack scope.

On my first (hardmode, no map updates) patrol beyond the tutorial I did discover there is a mechanical lever to the right of the TDC that will engage/disengage the scope. So at least I found the device. Now it's just a matter of figuring out how to use it efficiently without fumbling through the Sims UI in the middle of a convoy attack.

I sank my first ship in Uboat after boarding a Finnish (neutral) freighter and inspecting their records. After ordering the crew to abandon ship, I had a stationary target at 500m. I was delighted that I managed to set the TDC speed to zero, launch a torp, and score a hit. Problem is, I was still very skeptical that I had the settings correct. I knew for instance, the TDC solution was good, but was hard to grasp whether or not the torps had the right gyro setting. This is going to take me awhile to get used to. In this case, I had locked the target in the scope, so I had the data entry boxes available. It would be nice if they were always available without having to lock-in a target.

[Ghost Dog]

My biggest problem is that the latest updates broke nearly all the mods. Mods were essential for this game, I had a number of them. The vanilla game experience is pretty weak IMO. Nowhere near what you get from SH3 Onealex Mod or SH5 TWoS. Also the silly little "alerts" when you're being detected is really immersion breaking.

My crew stress had broken and as a result, I had 3 sailors panicking (which is fine and makes sense) but I had FIVE sailors experience heart attacks. That was bordering on the absurd.

Next, i'm noticing that even in 1941 convoy have excessive escort. Sometimes 8-10 escorts for maybe 5 or 6 convoy ships. Again, its a little absurd. Its feeling like a mobile game at times. I might be uninstalling forever soon.

[Aktungbby]

FesterShinetop!:Kaleun_Salute:... finally forced to surface by lack of a manual after 13 years' 'silent running"! :arrgh!:

[[SJ]Rivet]

With the beta has come a 200 pages game manual. I am very surprised and happy for that.





I'd be happy too if I could find it. Where exactly did you find the manual?


It's ok, found it in UBOAT-Pedia. I was looking in local files for a PDF.

[Doctor Haider]

Why does the target speed changes when I go from Torpedo Room back to TDC station? I set it to be 8 knots, go to Torpedo Room to check Gyro angle, go back and now it's 5 knots. Why? Also torpedo speed setting go down to 30 knots from the original set 44 knots.

Also the thing that puzzles me why the dispersion is set to some value different from 0 for one torpedo shots? I have a strong suspicion that this is used for one torpedo wich result in misses. So I need to manually set it to zero in Tropedo Room. I cannot change dispersion in TDC station...

UPD: I sorted it out lol. I was using the early TDC on type IID.

1. It looks like speed setting on torpedo should be set in torpedo room first or on the periscope torpedo settings dialog and then set in same way in TDC. actually it will automatically set to the same speed as in torpedo room when you leave TDC station. So if it was set to 30 in TR it will be set to 30 knots overriding your manual input in TDC

2. The AOB actuator at least in early TDC model overrides target speed setting so when my torpedo speed setting was overrided by the game, gyro ange was recalculated so AOB changed so target speed setting changed too.. I wonder if real stuff worked like this as well...

3. Salvo dispersion doesn't affect one torpedo shots at least in the latest 2024 Beta verison. I tested that by setting target speed to 0 and launch bearing to 0 so torpedo just went straight ignoring the dispersion setting. Good.

[Ruby2000]

Hi,

the target speed is changed by design when you change the torpedo speed on the TDC.

The first thing you have to do is always set the torpedo speed on the TDC.

Cheers Ruby

[FinessSzabi]

In short: I love it!

[RAM]

3. Salvo dispersion doesn't affect one torpedo shots at least in the latest 2024 Beta verison. I tested that by setting target speed to 0 and launch bearing to 0 so torpedo just went straight ignoring the dispersion setting. Good.


Did you shoot a single torpedo?. Salvo settings only work in multiple tube launches, so if you shoot just one torpedo it'll simply run straight regardless of the setting.

In fact if you shoot 3 torpedoes with a salvo setting, one will go left, the other right, and one will run straight through the middle of the salvo cone.

[Aktungbby]

RAM!:Kaleun_Salute:...the infamous :subsim: 7-year-itch strikes again; ending your 'silent run' since 2017! :yeah::arrgh!:

[VolvicCH]

I'm very impressed with the beta so far, the only thing I wish they would improve is the sinking mechanics, so far every ship I've torpedoed has sunk in less than 20 seconds after torpedo impact. As an old SH3 player, I miss the damage-model from that game. Made it more immersive IMO. Also, kindly do something about the ability to sink freighters with the 20mm gun.

[FinessSzabi]

I'm very impressed with the beta so far, the only thing I wish they would improve is the sinking mechanics, so far every ship I've torpedoed has sunk in less than 20 seconds after torpedo impact. As an old SH3 player, I miss the damage-model from that game. Made it more immersive IMO. Also, kindly do something about the ability to sink freighters with the 20mm gun.

I agree. There is a mod for it in for earlier beta, but it would be nice having it in base game. Game is awesome btw!

[s0cks]

I bought both SH3 and UBOAT at the same time. I've been watching a lot of videos and trying to familiarize myself with WWII sub warfare in general.


While I only have like 10 hours on each game I have to say I do prefer SH3.



I really really want to like UBOAT, and I keep trying to give it another go. I got the latest unstable beta and it's a lot better. It's got so many cool features that SH3 doesn't have too, like boarding parties, air compressors that you have to manage, all the crew stuff, bilge pumps, etc... But I really just do not get along with the UI. It just feels clunky to me. Also as the above poster says, every ship seems to sink in no time at all - whereas I love all the different ways a ship can sink in SH3.


I'm not going to give up on it tho. Definitely a solid game but perhaps not quite as smooth an experience as I would have liked. As someone else said, perhaps it's just one of those games you need to invest a lot of time in before things start to flow better.

[nihilcat]

But I really just do not get along with the UI. It just feels clunky to me.

Would you be able to give us some hints, which parts of the UI would use most work? It would be very much appreciated :salute:

[pedalboat]

It´s very simple.
Just imagine that your game is for a desktop computer, not a cell phone or an xbox platform.

[XLjedi]

Would you be able to give us some hints, which parts of the UI would use most work? It would be very much appreciated :salute:

It come across as bizarre that so much time was spent on modeling the side view of crew and the sub, but so little time is actually spent using that interface.

Primarily, the game is played from the Map and Tab key menu to give orders. You have a strategic view on the map where you are plotting your attack strategy, then you are jumping to attack scope for tactical. It is odd that while on the attack scope if I need to increase speed or apply rudder, I have to then jump back to the map to have access to the dials I need.

There's just not an efficient way to manage tactical nav orders while watching the enemy. It feels clunky. You are forced to jump out to a third person view of the sub or the map view to give a rudder or speed order.

The TDC dials are aggravating with the tenths of a decimal. Degrees should be easily dialed to whole numbers, and speed maybe to the half knot. I like putting in distances to whole 100's. Having a way to bypass those dials and just enter a number at the TDC panel would be a godsend.

Most SH players hate the idea of E-locking the target in the scope to have access to the TDC fire solution inputs. We also don't like that it's the only interface where we can enter values directly. Pulling up the tools on the attack scope (stad, chrono, etc) is useless because they don't send values to the TDC unless there is a target E-locked.

Also, your chrono-speed tool is very odd in that it disobeys the laws of physics and relative motion.

I could go on... but those are the big ones that I see.

[hombre al agua]

It is odd that while on the attack scope if I need to increase speed or apply rudder, I have to then jump back to the map to have access to the dials I need.


You dont. You only have to press ALT key.

[XLjedi]

You dont. You only have to press ALT key.

That's very cool and I appreciate the tip!

However, it shines a pretty direct light on what exactly the new players find clunky about the UI. ...and probably also why the devs and veterans don't see any problem with the UI.

What else am I going to find buried in the UI that is not apparent? I had no idea the alt key would make the dials/menu appear when on the attack scope and I've got 350 hours logged playing at 100%.

[hombre al agua]

What else am I going to find buried in the UI that is not apparent?.


If you press ALT while at side view some hidden selectors appear

If you press W, A, S, or D while plotting a line you make a straight (0, 90, 180, 270 ) line

If you press M to go to the map and then press M again you return where you were

PageUp and PageDown keys change the UI size

Side view (and most of the views and walking) moves faster whith shift key pressed

If you right click and drag the mouse in orbital view to the right or to the left of the bow you can change bearing

Those are some of the most hidden things i could think. The best thing to do in that sense is to read full the game manual and visit the keyboard hotkey section. There are a lot of mechanics that if you dont read the manual you will only find them by luck. For example, if you click first time in the red box with the wounded sailors numbers, the camera will center in the first wounded, if you click again the camera will go to the second one etc, same with the red box with broken things to repair.

[XLjedi]

If you press ALT while at side view some hidden selectors appear

So Alt does different things depending on side view. This sort of stuff is what makes the UI non-intuitive and people will just think it is "clunky".

On the scope for instance, if you select the view that has the waves... all that black space. The Alt menu dials should just be visible by default. I get why they might be hidden if using other scope views. But the Map and orbital views kinda train us that those dials and menu don't need to be toggled with Alt key.

[XLjedi]

If you press ALT while at side view some hidden selectors appear

If you press W, A, S, or D while plotting a line you make a straight (0, 90, 180, 270 ) line

If you press M to go to the map and then press M again you return where you were

PageUp and PageDown keys change the UI size

Side view (and most of the views and walking) moves faster whith shift key pressed

If you right click and drag the mouse in orbital view to the right or to the left of the bow you can change bearing

Those are some of the most hidden things i could think. The best thing to do in that sense is to read full the game manual and visit the keyboard hotkey section. There are a lot of mechanics that if you dont read the manual you will only find them by luck. For example, if you click first time in the red box with the wounded sailors numbers, the camera will center in the first wounded, if you click again the camera will go to the second one etc, same with the red box with broken things to repair.

I've been to hotkeys searching for various items and changing the key bindings. If I'm not specifically looking for something, it's pretty easy to graze over a mention of what the Alt key might be assigned to.

The manual... In fairness, it's what? a 200+ page manual that is currently only readable via the in-game interface? I'd happily read it cover-to-cover if I had the PDF. As it stands now, its only value is using it when on specific duties in the game and you get the "question mark" icon to click to read specific items. By the way, the manual pages for the TDC make no mention of the switch you need to know exists that actually turns on the AoB tracking motor for the C-series TDC. Worse, the default view of the TDC completely hides the knob so you don't know it's there, and the manual makes no mention of it.

W,A,S,D while plotting is good to know, thanks!
Edit: LOL, this is not a snap-to line, you're just telling me that WASD will scroll the screen as I draw. Really?

M-toggle, we are generally trained by most applications that a second press of an item and it toggles, so that one was intuitively known.

UI size, I believe I saw that one in the key bindings at some point. So I knew I could change it if I wanted to.

Shift key is another one that is common. We are trained by other games/apps that holding shift while moving is a way to speed things up. So another intuitive one.

The right-click in orbital view is a bit annoying, and probably contributes to the "Clunky-ness". Changing course by this manner is probably done accidentally a lot while people are just trying to rotate the camera. They inadvertently change their course. However, with time, you are forced to get used to it. So OK.

Keep in mind, this is all in direct response to a Dev asking "Do you have any specific examples of what needs to be worked on in the UI so it does not seem clunky."

If the general response to a new player is RTFM, then the UI is not intuitive. You get the "Clunky UI" label, and you'll probably lose a fair amount of active players just because they don't know how to efficiently manage their ship.

Again, I'm at 300+ hours, I have read a lot, watched a lot, played a lot of naval sims. The UI is not intuitive. There have been times (particulary when it comes to that undocumented AoB motor) where I almost shelved the game.

[hombre al agua]

Again, I'm at 300+ hours, I have read a lot, watched a lot, played a lot of naval sims. The UI is not intuitive. There have been times (particulary when it comes to that undocumented AoB motor) where I almost shelved the game.

The motor part of the c-series torpedo computer is already documented, They have updated the manual several times.

It is true that is more confortable to read the manual in a pdf outside the game, but they say the manual is not complete and they will do the pdf when the game is released. Reading the manual can solve any doubt about how the game and the UI work (and use it better even if you think it is "clunky").

[XLjedi]

The motor part of the c-series torpedo computer is already documented, They have updated the manual several times.

It is true that is more confortable to read the manual in a pdf outside the game, but they say the manual is not complete and they will do the pdf when the game is released. Reading the manual can solve any doubt about how the game and the UI work (and use it better even if you think it is "clunky").

The manual update to document the TDC motor switches (poorly) has to have been only within the last couple weeks. Probably in response to one of my other posts on it, LOL. But it's definitely at least better now than it was; the docs on that one need to state a bit more specifically that the AoB motor allows the TDC to update for AoB tracking. Hopefully, they also have them set to default ON now instead of OFF, which would solve 99% of any reports related to the TDC being bugged.

RTFM is not a dev solution for being characterized as a "Clunky Interface". I'm among the few willing to be specific and document the reasons why their interface is clunky.

They can proceed to do nothing if they should so choose. I'll be fine, play happily, and try to teach folks how to adapt to it. I have only begun to scratch the surface though in terms of why their UI is clunky.

[s0cks]

Would you be able to give us some hints, which parts of the UI would use most work? It would be very much appreciated :salute:

For sure, I can give you some feedback as a new player. Actually one issue I had was setting zoom in periscope but recently found you can right click, so solved that one (maybe needs to be made more clear?).

1. Also in the periscope view I very much miss the ability to use the periscope and set the TDC at the same time like you can in SH3. I understand that IRL you can't do that, but for sake of convenience in a videogame I really miss that feature for those of us who like manual setup. It feels clunky having to swap back and forth.

2. In SH3 I like love that I have my speed, heading, and depth all to hand in the bottom right at all times. Pressing ALT, then clicking the correct function, then clicking my new speed/depth/heading is clunky. I recently found you can alternatively press ALT+F# which is a little better, but it's still not as streamlined imo and I still can't just check it at a glance of the eyes.

Number 3 is a rather fundamental change so I doubt this will change but...

3. The views. I would much prefer if FPP, section, and orbit view were completely separate from each other and toggled via a button or keypress. I am always wishing I could zoom out more in sectional view, as well as wishing I could zoom in more on orbital view. And while the transition looks cool, it makes it feel clunky when you accidentally zoom in or out too far (which I seem to do a lot).

4. I'd also like to have common power controls to hand in the UI. Like turning on pumps and compressors. I know you can do it in the TAB menu, but then you are sacrificing that officer. Perhaps there are keyboard shortcuts that I can use that I haven't yet figured out.
EDIT: Ok, so somehow I missed these were all on the left side under TAB view. So this is resolved.


5. If I change my direction using gyrocompass or rudder control then I lose my plotted course. In SH3 I don't lose my plotted course when making changes in direction and can return to it at any point.


There are a couple of tools I really like having in modded SH3 too. The attack disk, and the RAOBF. They make my life easier when trying to position myself and manually calculate a solution. There may be mods that add these. I need to look into that.

There is also the fundamental difference of having to have a crew member at a station to use it. You are unlikely to change this, and I get why. But being able to hop into any station myself immediately on SH3 is very convenient I have to say.

Hope this was useful feedback.

[s0cks]

I've just realised that I'd rather ALT toggled the interface, not "hold to display". Something else I find clunky as I like to do a lot from the periscope view.


EDIT: Also, don't do what I did and hit ALT+F4, lol! It seems I can't hit F4, then ALT, my only option is to hold ALT and click it. As per above. Would much prefer a toggle.

[hombre al agua]

.


1. You can press ALT in periscope view

2. You can move them around the screen and put all of them at the same time where you want . Just drag them.

3. You can deactive in the settings mouse view activation. For a free camera with max zooming N hotkey.

There is a mod for The attack disk.

[Aktungbby]

s0cks!:Kaleun_Salute:

[s0cks]

1. You can press ALT in periscope view

2. You can move them around the screen and put all of them at the same time where you want . Just drag them.

3. You can deactive in the settings mouse view activation. For a free camera with max zooming N hotkey.

There is a mod for The attack disk.


Many thanks! :salute:


Quite enjoying the game atm and this will make things even better.

[s0cks]

Well having the ability to move those UI elements around so they are always visible is sooooooo much better. It makes me wish we could move all UI elements.


Turning off the scroll wheel to change view wasn't quite as good as I'd hoped though, as it doesn't afford you any extra zoom in/out capability.


Attack disk is a welcome addition though! But again, wish I could move it to where I want.


Now I just need to find out how I can actually find some targets in this slow, low range, Type II.

[VolvicCH]

Has this happened to anyone? That is to say that once in port, when you go to mission selection, there aren't any available? I spent a reputation point to get a new set of orders and still nothing?

[XLjedi]

Has this happened to anyone? That is to say that once in port, when you go to mission selection, there aren't any available? I spent a reputation point to get a new set of orders and still nothing?

Have not seen that, however... a few questions.

Have you purchased the perk that allows you to leave the port without a mission?

Is it possible that when all missions of a flotilla have been completed, you end up in this situation and the expectation is you request transfer to a new flotilla?

Are you playing on an old save game?

[Ruby2000]

Has this happened to anyone? That is to say that once in port, when you go to mission selection, there aren't any available? I spent a reputation point to get a new set of orders and still nothing?
Hi VolvicCH,

send your savegame to the devs with F11. They will look at it. Thanks.

Cheers Ruby

[VolvicCH]

Thanks for the replies, I tried to send my save game as recommended by Ruby2000. This is what the mission selection screen looks like when I click the officer from BdU

[Threadfin]

Is there a nomograph in the game? If not can it be added?

Picked this game up recently and love it. Nice work

Looking forward to release.

[Ruby2000]

Thanks for the replies, I tried to send my save game as recommended by Ruby2000. This is what the mission selection screen looks like when I click the officer from BdU
Hi VolvicCH,

the devs have received your savegame and will analyse it. Thank you!


Cheers Ruby

[XLjedi]

Is there a nomograph in the game? If not can it be added?

Picked this game up recently and love it. Nice work

Looking forward to release.

No nomo, but I find that I would use the thing so infrequently, it would just clutter the side of my map. The devs do however have an oddball map option that has no drawing tools whatsoever, my suggestion would be they just scrap that map view completely and put the equivalent of a static 5090 maneuvering board display there that we could draw on. Of course, the bottom of the mobo would be where your nomograph would reside.

If I were to attempt to mod the game, I might focus on that unused map and see if I could 1) add the drawing tools to it, and 2) replace it with a static polar coordinate plotting area with nomograph. Question is, would the plots I draw on the static mobo and nomo also appear in the other nav map? I suspect there is only one drawing space and it might flowthru to both maps.

[Threadfin]

I've printed one out. I like using nomographs to determine target speed. I hope one is added as a tool in the game, but having it on a sheet of paper is the next best thing.


As to cluttering the map, it could be a toggle, and you turn it on and off, unlike Silent Hunter where the nomograph is a persistent overlay.

[hombre al agua]

Is there a nomograph in the game? If not can it be added?

Picked this game up recently and love it. Nice work

Looking forward to release.


there arent but i suppose it would not be so hard to code as a mod where you could trace lines there.


i usually use those three :


https://steamcommunity.com/app/494840/images/?searchText=Nomograph&browsefilter=trend&filterLanguage=default

[Threadfin]

UBOAT has dropped. Good hunting!

[Herr Graf]

UBOAT has dropped. Good hunting!

I'm looking forward to playing 1.0. :salute: