View Full Version : It's been 9 years...
I think about Subsim (and Onkel Neal) often, but noticed that I hadn't actually been logged in here since 2014. It's probably super pre-mature to announce it, but after a decade of focusing on my business efforts I'm finally working on a project I've wanted to do since 2002. It's very early stages, but basic client server components are working, interfaces are partially implemented (working on the hud next), ocean and islands have basic implementations. I'll put up a website once I get to the MVP. It's going to be free to play, free to download. Exports far for MacOS, Linux and Windows work - won't play on phones or pads for this first round.
While this is the logo design, this is just placeholder art.
https://eugenedailynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/D6Splash.jpg
the MVP is going to be superbasic Iron Wolves (with crappy ship models unfortunately). The plan after release is to have upgrades monthly (ship models, effects, features, etc.). When will it release? First half of next year if I can stay on track (WW3 notwithstanding).
I'm doing everything myself, but hopefully in the future the community will be interested in providing ship models, art and ideas. Iron Wolves is what got me into subsims, SUBSIM got me into the community. Cheers.
Aktungbby
10-31-23, 07:26 PM
EAST!:Kaleun_Salute:
I've been keeping a dev log that I'll post on here until I've put up a website. Be gentle about the graphics, they are placeholders mostly downloaded from the internet.
The Grand Plan
Grow this into a game that encompasses small simulation details like a full TDC or Hydrophone Station (more points for using them), as well as "Real World" details like managing your fuel, ammo, food and repairs, your crew (including recruiting ala MechWarrior 1) and even your political position within the Faction/World (Think of someone commanding a War with subordinates who manage the logistics to support the war). I've got a lot of experience with optimized database design and some definite ideas about how this can be implemented into a Sub/Surface Combat game without ruining the fun, or immersion (I hope).
1st stage: As I mentioned is a basic Iron Wolves level game. If you aren't familiar with it, go here: https://www.subsim.com/subsim-review-iron-wolves/ and check out the review. There will be Northland, Westland and Assassin factions as well as "GigaCorp" (or some nonsense) that represents the big global power that does most of the shipping you'll be poaching from. This stage is about combat and camaraderie. Note: If any of the original Assassins join, they will automatically be given high rank. Once there is a member of high rank, they will have to accept a player that wants to be an Assassin.
2nd Stage: DEPLETING RESOURCES. BTW: If there is any interest in the game at all, I'd like to hear suggestions and preferences - this stage is subject to change based on community input. The goal here is to bring in a little bit of "RTS" gameplay. These are planned to be simplified versions of RTS elements that represent the things that the actual submariner and ship commanders would have to consider. We're talking about FUEL, AMMO, STORES, REPAIRS and even FRESH WATER. I have the underpinnings for this in place already, but it's just stubbed in and not active. This also means that I'll be adding BASES. Every Faction will have a home base and some pre-assigned satellite bases on various Islands. This will allow for refueling, repairs, rearming and resupply.
3rd Stage: Faction Squadrons/Wolfpacks & Assassin player created packs/squadrons. Factions have "Squadrons" (or whatever they end up being called) that are automatically created but will be assigned by the Faction Leader. The Assassins Faction will have a special ability: Highly ranked players will be able to form their own (Groups/Tribes/Squadrons/etc) inside the faction and we'll track them in the database.
4th Stage: Crews, Base Expansion & New/Conquer/Destroy Base capabilities.
5th Stage: Aircraft (non-pilotable - maybe in the future?)
As a solo developer, as much as I might like to do it, building a world that includes real timelines, locations, cities, etc. would make this impossible to do alone. And truly, Iron Wolves was so much fun, it didn't matter that it wasn't historical.
NOTE: Please weigh in on these plans, particularly if you think something else is more important, or you hate an idea, etc.
https://eugenedailynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Screen-Shot-2023-10-31-at-5.43.30-PM.png
Weigh in if you are interested, encouragement always helps.
EAST!:Kaleun_Salute:
Thanks for the welcom. Exicted to be working on something (I think) that is worthy of bringing to SUBSIM.
https://eugenedailynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Screen-Shot-2023-10-31-at-7.54.46-PM.png
Entrance screen is hooked up to the database. The Login and Register have popups - skinning those tomorrow.
Main Lobby screen is 2/3 laid out: Radio Room, online players are connected (putting fake players for now). Next step is finishing the "Ships" (assets) window and mission window.
Also completed the wespons setup for putting different size/types of weapons plus their ammo on a vessel. Next is to convert the hardcoded values to a json file from the database to handle the weapons, ammo and damage data - shooting for Thursday.
https://eugenedailynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Screen-Shot-2023-10-31-at-8.02.44-PM.png
From the tanker view (sub off the port bow - islands are working, ocean looks ok. Need to deal with the sun position. I got it backwards and the illumination isn't connected...maybe this coming weekend. Looking forward to finishing the basic hud (Tanker).
https://eugenedailynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Screen-Shot-2023-10-31-at-8.07.55-PM.png
Sub looking at tanker. The little blue capsule is my size referencing (little too fat currently...)
https://eugenedailynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Screen-Shot-2023-10-31-at-8.11.46-PM.png
Passing in front of the sub,heading towards the center islands.
les green01
11-01-23, 07:25 PM
good luck nothing im interested in
Implementing the gateway and authentication servers into the networking, created the database and did the PHP wrapper. The servers all load on the Linux server, World, Gateway and Auth servers all connect to each other so a good day on that front.
Login and Registration popup forms are (mostly) done.
https://eugenedailynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Screen-Shot-2023-11-01-at-8.55.21-PM.png
Couldn't make up my mind on style...Lobby is in the next style
https://eugenedailynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Screen-Shot-2023-11-01-at-8.58.35-PM.png
Having a little trouble with the keyboard...
Weigh in if you have a preference as to styles.
While this game will have some good hardcore sim aspects it's not a sim, it's a game. At it's peak Iron Wolves had over 1800 registered players. It was a lot of fun and lead to meeting a number of the players in RL at the first Subsim gathering at the Cavalla and later at EnigmaCon in Eugene.
A buddy emailed and asked what the inspirations were for D6:IronWolves.
The major inspiration was Iron Wolves of course. But there were a number of other games that are part of the mix:
Enigma: Rising Tide - this always felt like we never got to finish what we started with this game. From here we take Realistic ocean and physics, Playable weapon emplacements and fire control...
Silent Hunter - Sim aspects: selectable navigation, realistic targetting and fire control, realistic navigation
Mech Warrior - Crews. The way these crews were done kept things non-fiddly but still had an impact on your performance. The other thing that comes from this, Enigma and the next one are the ability to assign tasks, missions, etc. to other (AI crewed) ships that you would take on a mission. Crew have rank and ratings as well as skill and attitude or personality scales as well. The other thing I really liked from this game was the rearm, repair elements.
Tribes 2 - Command map. The idea of rising in rank in your faction to where you can begin to conduct the mission or the war. The ability to start a base, takeover a base, or just destroy it.
There's also a little bit of Call of Duty in there.
At it's core it's a surface, submarine combat game, but learning from Enigma and Tribes 2 - there are players who gravitate to tactics, logistics, defense/offense, etc.
the MVP will be Iron Wolves style play. The rest will come on as I learn the mechanics of implementing them.
The one lingering question I have is: Am I missing the plot? Is this type of game no longer appealing? Thoughts?
Been working exclusively on the login process and security setup. Been educational to say the least. This is the first time having to hand roll a secure auth system. 2 small server apps and 1 large one running on Linux to handle a server side authoritative setup.
I love the engine choice (more on that later) with the one exception that it has no native ability to connect to a database. Had to build a hybrid system combining the game engine and native code on the server. Got that working this morning. Now data encryption, checksummed connection privileges, single use ticketing and SSL all in place. Authenticated Login works, returning sample data and state information for an admin interface from the various servers works.
Next up is the Registration path. Need to setup email confirmations and 2 stage signups (and signins) - figuring out how to send SMS from the server and allow the registrant to get the pin by email or sms.
Once registration is done I'll start populating the guest lobby and then the player lobby data.
Even if this idea is past it's prime, the tools are going to come in handy for use in real life work.
Sonarman
11-15-23, 03:13 PM
Great to see you back here Kelly, this looks like a very interesting development especially if it involves surface vessels being controlled too.
I don't know if you've ever heard of it but a very obscure dos game called Fleet Tactical Command II (Sinclair QL & PC) might also be looking at for some inspiration it was a very early multiplayer game but it had an amazing feature-set somewhat similar to what you have outlined above re bases & logistics etc.
Basically the players were divided into two teams with a home port each and a resource rich island for capture between them players manned warships merchant ships and subs and many different systems including a complex damage system were implemented, shallows etc were a part of the game and players who fell afoul of them could be towed off by fellow team members, minelaying and minesweeping etc and many more elements eg at sea replenishment were also included, it was very graphically basic as a mid 80's indie game but was well regarded for its incredible depth.
This was its manual...
https://dilwyn.qlforum.co.uk/games/ftc/Operate.pdf
Great to see you back here Kelly, this looks like a very interesting development especially if it involves surface vessels being controlled too.
I don't know if you've ever heard of it but a very obscure dos game called Fleet Tactical Command II (Sinclair QL & PC) might also be looking at for some inspiration it was a very early multiplayer game but it had an amazing feature-set somewhat similar to what you have outlined above re bases & logistics etc.
Basically the players were divided into two teams with a home port each and a resource rich island for capture between them players manned warships merchant ships and subs and many different systems including a complex damage system were implemented, shallows etc were a part of the game and players who fell afoul of them could be towed off by fellow team members, minelaying and minesweeping etc and many more elements eg at sea replenishment were also included, it was very graphically basic as a mid 80's indie game but was well regarded for its incredible depth.
This was its manual...
https://dilwyn.qlforum.co.uk/games/ftc/Operate.pdf
That's a good suggestion, I'll check it out. I'm familiar with most of the sub / surface games - not UBOAT yet but it looks amazing.
Yes surface ships and subs in the first go round, possibly more if I can figure it all out before I die. Cheers!
Been an interesting time learning security technology. My first implementation worked, but had a guy try to break it for me...np. Broke it in 5 minutes. Showed me what i had missed...refactoring time.
The good news is, on the second hack test he couldn't get anything!
So now back to where I was (more or less) with the last update, but with a fully secure login system. Can deliver lists of who's online, track last logins, etc.
Now I'm working on the registration portion. This is going much faster now that I know what I was doing wrong before. Even though the engine doesn't have DB connectivity, this method is pretty cool - all local to the db with no outside access.
During the period of intense frustration after the first hacks worked so well I went back to doing some work on the graphics side. Everything is looking pretty good - the ocean isn't Sea of Thieves ocean, but it looks pretty good. Taking some tricks that I learned working on Enigma I have my first bouyancy shader working...well mostly.
The models however...oi, ugly. I keep starting to learn Blender, but it's such slow going I'm not sure I could model a ship or sub as fast as they could physically design/build/outfit & launch one in real life. My hope is that maybe some of you uber talented people in the community might want to pitch in on the model side...?
Right now I've got some free (unanimated) models in game, but....not awesome.
Also watched a movie called The Last Sentinel (real "B" movie) that had an interesting concept for justifying the state of the world in the film....I'm going to examine how that would work with what I'm planning. It may also help moderate the expectations regarding historicall accurate Sim details. I imagine doing all the things you'd have to do to in a sub or ship, but in a degrading post-apocalyptic world. You'll still have to know tactics and equipment functions, but technology advances would be almost non-existent. Weigh in if you have an opinion.
Ok, back to work.
Theta Sigma
01-29-24, 05:09 AM
Hiya Kelly,
Some of us are still around even if not surfacing as often. ;)
Best of luck with this. I'm gonna keep an eye on it.
Good to hear from you.
Haven't posted in a bit. Figured I'd wait until I had visuals to show beyond the crappy dev art. Been working away on the multiplayer. I tend to get the foundation and framing done before I do anything else...keeps me from building myself into a corner. That said, went down a bit of a rabbit hole after spending too much time looking at UBOAT. I coded a modular submerge/surface operations system with balance tanks, trim tanks, valves, piping (for pressure drop and damage) before I caught myself. This isn't that kind of sim. While I learned a lot about the engine and how to modify some of my approach to how I built the game, I realized I needed to abandon most of that work...
On the good news side, had some conversations with devs from a cool open world project on how they modelled the entire world without having to constantly load sections. Very interesting. I'm experimenting with it so that I can make this a big world without losing precision on sub-meter movement scale. Islands to discover...
I'm having a lot of fun working on this. It's both satisfying my love for IW (and all the friends I met in that game) and scratching my coding itch. Now if I could just find some artists that would like to contribute.........
Here's a little "on the ocean" demo - dev and borrowed art, no audio, forgot to turn on the ocean animation, but will give you some hints at what's coming/what I'm trying to accomplish.
https://nyepower.co/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/D6QuickVideo.mp4
A quick update:
Finally got the DTLS encryption working on all systems. A Client running on my local machine, calls the gateway for login into the AUTH server. Auth Server authenticates and sends the passkey to client. Client logs into the world server and enters the lobby to make ship selection and enter the game.
Now that this is working properly it's time to add registration (and factions!) functions.
https://nyepower.co/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/C64A2B3E-4364-44DE-8DE1-6CF29B758594.jpeg
Client login
https://nyepower.co/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/17975A9E-6668-4B96-9823-7D782682D3C1.jpeg
Gateway
Auth and World are just a couple of lines, but all working. On to the next step.
Registration, Login, Logout all working on the network version
Player Positions are synchronizing properly with the server
Good looking ocean working - not doing big waves like Enigma, but not flat like IW either.
Have got a good "floating grid" for the player ocean over a "big ocean" algo.
Basic terrain working for islands and continental barriers. Right now trying out some pretty clever techniques for having a truly huge world while keeping resolution for the player AND not having 4 million texture files and database entries. A pretty cool idea I've been studying is using a texture for global reference to a regional texture that stores the reference to a 10km Section texture with 9 references to the local heightmap and 15 references to the next nearest outside local heightmaps. The interesting part is only loading max 3 local heighmaps at at time and only displacing and rendering the player floating grid! In case you can't tell, pretty excited about this.
First stage is a single reference grid (24 ids) and 9 local grid textures. It's still gives around 4km of visibility and 20km of movement. Hoping to get this working well so I can move out to the next level of references. NOTE: I only need local terrain blocks where there is undersea or above water terrain.
This week I've also been implementing the "Room/Station" components for ship and sub configuration. This will let me expand capabilities (ie sim features...) in the future: Engineering & "Steering" done, Bridge partially
Deep Six - Iron Woves Revisited
Deep Six is and online Naval Combat based game - the spiritual ancestor of Iron Wolves and Enigma
Features
Giant World
Dynamic beautiful ocean
Islands that can be discovered
Submarines, Combat Ships, Combat Supply, General Delivery
Manable weapons for manual firing
Real world style detection and "location" sharing
Future?
State Machines
Vessel & Weapon Stations
Bridge
Engineering
Steering
Dive
Navigation
Sonar
Communications
Weapons
Rollout Stages
MVP
IW Level Setup
BETA Product
RELEASE
Gameplay
Command Subs, Ships and Shore Emplacements
Automated or Piloted ships - Players can build AI-able fleets for dispersal and use.
Central Port for each Faction with berthing, registry for ships (store!) etc.
DEVLOG
2023
Sat, Oct 21, 2023
Fri, Oct 27, 2023
Tue, Oct 31, 2023
Fri, Nov 3, 2023
Mon, Nov 20, 2023
Thu, Nov 30, 2023
Sat, Dec 2, 2023
Wed, Dec 13, 2023
2024
Sun, Jan 7
Sun, Jan 14
Sun, Jan 21
Fri, Feb 2
Wed, Feb 28
TODO Wed, Feb 28
NEXT STEPS: In Game #todo #C
NEXT STEPS : Multiplayer #todo #A
NEXT STEPS: Registration, Login & Lobby #todo #B
NEXT STEPS: Camera Rigging #todo #D
Design Points
Old REFERENCE DESIGN
The Stations are just programming blocks so I can control everything from reload times, damage, operational speeds, etc. by each station and their equipment settings. I have found it easier to assemble a ship this way and it plugs nicely into station specific state machines.
While this thread is incredibly....quiet. I'm still excited about this game. First, I'm learning a lot, second, while I already appreciated the artists and programmers I worked with, I'm becoming an acolyte of the amazing coding skills of people in this industry. Here's a little something:
https://nyepower.co/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/worldSize.png
The img reference WorldMap is really clever and it works. Here's a peek at world sizes. We're going to start with the 256k reference maps - 2+ weeks to cross at cruising speed for a Type VIIC.
https://nyepower.co/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/March12-D6-Screenshot-1-scaled.jpg
Sonarman
03-25-24, 06:22 PM
Beginning to look great EAST, looks like a 30's era turbine steamer there, was she modelled after a particular real world vessel? Your feature list looks great hope you get to achieve it all in time.
Beginning to look great EAST, looks like a 30's era turbine steamer there, was she modelled after a particular real world vessel? Your feature list looks great hope you get to achieve it all in time.
It's a borrowed model - not much info on it except it's a dual diesel, single prop merchant. I like the model and it's not too poly heavy so I'll likely license it. Still no community artists on board...
Taking a short break from 3d transforms now that I FINALLY get them. Ship operation state machines are done, implementing them for server side authority now. Also spending some time learning about shaders. Implemented a nice GPU exhaust shader that varies with throttle setting and engine load. First shell impact shader done...needs work, but I'm getting it.
I have a chat system done, pretty pleased with that. Getting the IW text color by faction down. Chat does global, faction only, faction with allies and player to player. When I go back to working on the chat I'll see about a squadron/group feature. I put together a for faction alliances since there's going to be a AI faction that's the big dog in the world. That and a Privateer faction.
I know this is all really ambitious and I've still got a lot to learn, but I've always wanted to make this game so this time I'm going to try not to compromise on it. I am however sticking to a minimum viable product model: First level is just getting everything working and not worrying too much about overall looks fine tuning. My core focus is to make sure the multiplayer works great. Everything else takes a back seat to multiplayer.
Thanks for weighing in!
Sonarman
04-19-24, 05:46 PM
Thanks EAST, I think its looking great so far and the sub vs destroyer multiplayer element has always been very high on everyone's wishlist.
I hope some 3D modellers get on board to help you out soon, it would be great to see the project come to fruition, shame it didn't happen for ERT after all of the effort yourself and the others at Tesseraction put in. It was great that you released ERT as freeware at the end of its days though, hopefully all those who have enjoyed ERT over the years will support your latest endeavour.
Your feature list looks great, I think ERT maybe suffered a little from not having separate stations for everything (expectation wise) though the MO-Board style approach you took actually makes more sense from a 'real world' command perspective and was in many ways what today's games do (with everything on one screen). But I think a lot of naval sim guys prefer the 'old school' bells and whistles approach where you have a separate sonar/chart screen etc and can hop between all of the various devices etc. Destroyer the UBoat Hunter made a great return to that last year so its great to see that's in the plan and the gameplay elements with ports, berthing, logistics etc look great.
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