Ambient Oclusion Problems

[Tigerzhunters]

Any idea Why the ambient oclusion like this Cuz im using wings 3d

https://i.ibb.co/j60wDrw/image.png (https://imgbb.com/)

But without AO it will like this

https://i.ibb.co/2NN1xL3/image.png (https://imgbb.com/)

Mybe any wings 3d veteran everytime im add ambient oclusion to s3d it will like this.

https://i.ibb.co/mB4mXYm/image.png (https://imgbb.com/)

Wing3d im already Set The Uvmap??

[Alex.B]

Any idea Why the ambient oclusion like this Cuz im using wings 3d

https://i.ibb.co/j60wDrw/image.png (https://imgbb.com/)

But without AO it will like this

https://i.ibb.co/2NN1xL3/image.png (https://imgbb.com/)

Mybe any wings 3d veteran everytime im add ambient oclusion to s3d it will like this.

https://i.ibb.co/mB4mXYm/image.png (https://imgbb.com/)

Wing3d im already Set The Uvmap??
I run into this when I cut out polygons after creating UV (in Blender). I don't know anything about wings 3D. There are Wings 3D experts here who have more to say than me.

[Tigerzhunters]

I run into this when I cut out polygons after creating UV (in Blender). I don't know anything about wings 3D. There are Wings 3D experts here who have more to say than me.

Poorly my Graphic card+Proccesor Cant use blender To old for my graphic card

:dead:

[Hooston]

Never used wings3d, but it looks like the surface normals of your polygons are not all facing the same way. You need to flip the normals of some of the polygons so they all face outwards. No idea how to do this in wings3d!



I have a 12 year old i3 laptop that just about runs the latest Blender 3.5.1 (using Linux) with a few OpenGL related glitches. Official support is only back 10 years, but they do not go out of their way to lock people out and in fact improved things for me at the last release.

However they still make ALL the old releases available for free back to 2003 (blender.org->download->previous versions). in my case I found old computer support was perfect at version 2.93. This has all the features you will need for creating game assets. Alternatively the Blender devs suggest version 2.79b for really, really old hardware.

[kapuhy]

Alternatively the Blender devs suggest version 2.79b for really, really old hardware.

I have until recently used 2.75 on 13 year old laptop - just about every function you need for modeling ships for Silent Hunter games works like a charm, only thing I had to be careful about was AO texture baking (still possible but I had to set limit for processor usage by Blender to avoid baking my laptop instead of a texture).

[Tigerzhunters]

Never used wings3d, but it looks like the surface normals of your polygons are not all facing the same way. You need to flip the normals of some of the polygons so they all face outwards. No idea how to do this in wings3d!



I have a 12 year old i3 laptop that just about runs the latest Blender 3.5.1 (using Linux) with a few OpenGL related glitches. Official support is only back 10 years, but they do not go out of their way to lock people out and in fact improved things for me at the last release.

However they still make ALL the old releases available for free back to 2003 (blender.org->download->previous versions). in my case I found old computer support was perfect at version 2.93. This has all the features you will need for creating game assets. Alternatively the Blender devs suggest version 2.79b for really, really old hardware.

well can i get the link so it can be easier:hmmm:

[Niume]

I believe you should ask iambecomelife, I think he uses planes3d to model ships

[kapuhy]

well can i get the link so it can be easier:hmmm:

https://download.blender.org/release/Blender2.79/

select blender-2.79b-windows64.msi (unless you use 32 bit windows in which case select blender-2.79b-windows32.msi )

Edit: By the way, if you still didn't solve this problem, you can try posting your file here so that either myself or someone else could take a look at it.

[Tigerzhunters]

Well thx all, The problem fixed So in the model I need like this 5,9InDeruyter And add Again 5,9inDeruyter-Uv2/Uv3.

Well i think it could be the Specular map
https://i.ibb.co/BsH3YDF/image.png (https://imgbb.com/)

[Alex.B]

Ruyter? No problem...


https://i4.imageban.ru/thumbs/2023.05.05/6ac2620f1e6c5fa61d205553c9761d6a.webp (https://imageban.ru/show/2023/05/05/6ac2620f1e6c5fa61d205553c9761d6a/webp) https://i3.imageban.ru/thumbs/2023.05.05/2e6d832f654d207ae4237ca3cc4d6a85.webp (https://imageban.ru/show/2023/05/05/2e6d832f654d207ae4237ca3cc4d6a85/webp)

https://i7.imageban.ru/thumbs/2023.05.05/0f607c9a09a02127eb46626d53a983eb.webp (https://imageban.ru/show/2023/05/05/0f607c9a09a02127eb46626d53a983eb/webp)

https://i2.imageban.ru/out/2023/05/05/356bd0c7ce641ea8ce41a19eb83dfc52.webp (https://imageban.ru)

[Mister_M]

I ran into this problem today. Here is how the problem occured:

1) I exported an already existing 3D object from a .dat library file. This object is composed of two meshes, the first one is UV-mapped for the main texture, and the second mesh is UV-mapped for the AO texture.

So, S3D exported two meshes at the same time: MMM.obj and MMM-uv2.obj.

2) Then, I opened both meshes in Wings3D in order to edge-split them.

3) Then, I exported both meshes as wavefront files (.obj) with the same name (MMM.obj and MMM-uv2.obj).

4) Then, I imported the meshes in S3D by importing MMM.obj (MMM-uv2.obj is detected automatically and imported at the same time).

And now the AO effect is broken... Like this:

Any idea Why the ambient oclusion like this Cuz im using wings 3d

https://i.ibb.co/j60wDrw/image.png (https://imgbb.com/)

I don't know how to fix that... :06:

[Tigerzhunters]

I ran into this problem today. Here is how the problem occured:

1) I exported an already existing 3D object from a .dat library file. This object is composed of two meshes, the first one is UV-mapped for the main texture, and the second mesh is UV-mapped for the AO texture.

So, S3D exported two meshes at the same time: MMM.obj and MMM-uv2.obj.

2) Then, I opened both meshes in Wings3D in order to edge-split them.

3) Then, I exported both meshes as wavefront files (.obj) with the same name (MMM.obj and MMM-uv2.obj).

4) Then, I imported the meshes in S3D by importing MMM.obj (MMM-uv2.obj is detected automatically and imported at the same time).

And now the AO effect is broken... Like this:



I don't know how to fix that... :06:

I suggest you To try Export The 3d obj of Uv 2 and replaced on old one But idk Is the Ao Has Same Mapped Like The Normal texture or No but if yes i suggest delete The MMM-uv2 And Copy The MMM it will appear MMM - Copy Rename It into MMM-uv2 And test it :03::up:

[Tigerzhunters]

I ran into this problem today. Here is how the problem occured:

1) I exported an already existing 3D object from a .dat library file. This object is composed of two meshes, the first one is UV-mapped for the main texture, and the second mesh is UV-mapped for the AO texture.

So, S3D exported two meshes at the same time: MMM.obj and MMM-uv2.obj.

2) Then, I opened both meshes in Wings3D in order to edge-split them.

3) Then, I exported both meshes as wavefront files (.obj) with the same name (MMM.obj and MMM-uv2.obj).

4) Then, I imported the meshes in S3D by importing MMM.obj (MMM-uv2.obj is detected automatically and imported at the same time).

And now the AO effect is broken... Like this:



I don't know how to fix that... :06:

It could be Happend Because The Channel 1 and channel 2/uv2 not have same Size Like the channel 1 that the reasons

[Mister_M]

I suggest you To try Export The 3d obj of Uv 2 and replaced on old one But idk Is the Ao Has Same Mapped Like The Normal texture or No but if yes i suggest delete The MMM-uv2 And Copy The MMM it will appear MMM - Copy Rename It into MMM-uv2 And test it :03::up:

Thank you for the suggestion, but both meshes are not mapped in the same way at all, unlike WoWS models...

[Tigerzhunters]

Thank you for the suggestion, but both meshes are not mapped in the same way at all, unlike WoWS models...

Well check The Size Prob the reason or better way you give me the model so i can examine it Haha

[Mister_M]

5740

https://www.mediafire.com/file/93kuwyhd714nhj0/EDGE_SPLIT_FuMO29GEMA_%2528Wise%2529.zip/file

[Mister_M]

... and here to test result in S3D: https://www.mediafire.com/file/e3d2hru4s3xgpxq/Model.dat/file

(you have a yellow button in the window "Model preview" of S3D: "Enable ambient occlusion map")

[Tigerzhunters]

... and here to test result in S3D: https://www.mediafire.com/file/e3d2hru4s3xgpxq/Model.dat/file

(you have a yellow button in the window "Model preview" of S3D: "Enable ambient occlusion map")

https://i.ibb.co/B6n7mh9/image.png (https://imgbb.com/)

:up:

[Mister_M]

https://i.ibb.co/B6n7mh9/image.png (https://imgbb.com/)

:up:

Yes, this is the situation before any change. Then, try to import my modified meshes (in the folder named "after edge-split")...

[Tigerzhunters]

Well I means After you export/import it

[Mister_M]

Well I means After you export/import it

Yes, if you export and import the meshes without modifications, then there is no problem... :D

But I want to modify them (edge-split)...

[Jeff-Groves]

You've moved verts between the 2 obj files.
Doing that moves the final tex coords.
S3D only imports the tex coords/faces for the UV2 obj.
That information is stored in the TMAP section of a dat.
I've replaced all verts infomation with 0's in some files and imported the UV2 files!

Why do you want to edge split anyways?
Trying to gain fame off of others work? Seems the main objective anymore.

[Mister_M]

You've moved verts between the 2 obj files.
Doing that moves the final tex coords.
S3D only imports the tex coords/faces for the UV2 obj.
That information is stored in the TMAP section of a dat.
I've replaced all verts infomation with 0's in some files and imported the UV2 files!

Hello Jeff,

First, thank you for paying attention to my "problem" and explaining things. I have only basic knowledge about 3D modeling, unlike you. So, I'm always seeking for improving my skills.

Why do you want to edge split anyways?

For the final in-game aspect. The smooth aspect doesn't render the hard edges (despite the AO map) and I don't like it. After all, this is an object that is relatively big and in a very visible place, so I think it's important to have a perfect final aspect.

Trying to gain fame off of others work? Seems the main objective anymore.

As Jesus said to Pontius Pilate who accused him: "it's you who is saying it"... :O:

I know that the "intellectual property" is a very sensible subject among the modding community. I myself created some stuff for SH3, and I'm not happy when people use my work in their mods without asking me or even crediting me... :nope:

To answer directly: your assumption is wrong. Firstly, I do this only for personal convenience. Secondly, I will always credit the original modder if I use a part of his work. That's why, for example, I've written everywhere (in S3D and on the folder) that the object comes from Wise type VII U-Boats mod. Did I ever pretend that I created it myself?!

Now, it's up to you to choose your belief.

Finally, I'm still waiting for a solution. A detailed explanation on how to correct this, or how to edge-split 2 same objects with different UV-map in a correct way would be very appreciated! :)

You said that I've "moved verts between the 2 obj files." I don't understand this, because the uv-map looks like the same after the edge-split process. Note that I did that in Wings3D, and with manual method: duplicating the model, then deleting the faces of a same orientation on the first model, then deleting the other faces on the second model... and so on until all different orientations are separated.


Note that I prefer to understand things rather than getting fixed files. As the saying goes: "If you give a fish to a hungry man, you will feed him one day. Teach him to fish and you will feed him forever."

[Jeff-Groves]

I'd say the easiest way to fix the problem is this.

Open your adjusted uv2 object,
Do a re-uv to the FUMO29.tga being as that is just a simple texture.
Export that and save as FuMO29GEMA.obj

Then import with S3D.

Or quicker yet, Copy the uv2 object and save it as FuMO29GEMA.obj,
then import. Looks fine in S3D that way.


As to objects with much more complex UV mapping on the main object file?
I can't help you as I do not use Wings3D.
I'd render a guess and say that you might need to follow the exact same steps on each obj file.
So if deleting faces? Delete the exact same faces in the exact same order on both obj files.
3DS Max is much easier to do since it allows multiple UV channels.

[Mister_M]

Open your adjusted uv2 object,
Do a re-uv to the FUMO29.tga being as that is just a simple texture.
Export that and save as FuMO29GEMA.obj

Then import with S3D.

Or quicker yet, Copy the uv2 object and save it as FuMO29GEMA.obj,
then import. Looks fine in S3D that way.

OK, the result is "acceptable" here (if you don't look too closely), because the main texture is a simple texture as you noticed (just a grey square with some "noise").

As to objects with much more complex UV mapping on the main object file?
I can't help you as I do not use Wings3D.
I'd render a guess and say that you might need to follow the exact same steps on each obj file.
So if deleting faces? Delete the exact same faces in the exact same order on both obj files.
3DS Max is much easier to do since it allows multiple UV channels.

Thank you for the hints, i'm grateful to you. Indeed, following the exact same edge-split procedure for both objects may help.

So - trying to explain with my own words - the problem comes from the file where the UV-map is stored (.mtl, and then in the TMAP section of a .dat file): the order of the faces are not the same between MMM.obj and MMM-uv2.obj, consequently the AO map for a face is placed on another face of the model (so at a wrong location). Am I correct?...

[Jeff-Groves]

Yeah. Your pretty much correct.
If you compare your obj files in say, SweetScape 010, you will see the differences in your verts.

An obj file is just a text file so you can open them in notepad and see the differences.

Now. The mtl file is ONLY a pointer to a texture. All Verts, Faces, Normals, and Texture coords are in the obj file.
V= Vert
VT= Texture
VN= Normal
F= Face
When one has a FULL understanding of how an obj file works? They can do amazing things to them.

[Mister_M]

Yeah. Your pretty much correct.
If you compare your obj files in say, SweetScape 010, you will see the differences in your verts.

An obj file is just a text file so you can open them in notepad and see the differences.

Now. The mtl file is ONLY a pointer to a texture. All Verts, Faces, Normals, and Texture coords are in the obj file.
V= Vert
VT= Texture
VN= Normal
F= Face
When one has a FULL understanding of how an obj file works? They can do amazing things to them.

Very interesting. So, in theory, I could solve my problem by editing the MMM-uv2.obj file with a text editor?

[Jeff-Groves]

Very interesting. So, in theory, I could solve my problem by editing the MMM-uv2.obj file with a text editor?

In theory? Yes one could. In real life? Not worth the effort nor time!
I wrote programs to do things like that but for a different problem/Game.

In the case of your problem files? I'd re-UV the uv2.obj to match the stock UV of the main file. As was my first suggestion. Not solving future issues I understand.
Again, I don't use Wings3D but iambecomelife does. He may be able to help you more then I can. Send him a PM and tell him I sent you to him.

I am finishing up Tools to assist him with Animations.
I'm also testing a different FREE 3D program that handles obj files and does animations.
Art of Illusion looks interesting.

[Tigerzhunters]

Very interesting. So, in theory, I could solve my problem by editing the MMM-uv2.obj file with a text editor?

well Im not 3d artist but it's difficult for people who use it automatically And it will be very difficult but yes all of it has stages Nothing is instant Even instant noodles still need to be boiled, As long as there is an intention to do something as difficult as anything, there must be a solution. Yes im still studying that For my future too because im only 14 years old but yeah i love it :haha:

:Kaleun_Wink:

[Jeff-Groves]

well Im not 3d artist but it's difficult for people who use it automatically And it will be very difficult but yes all of it has stages Nothing is instant Even instant noodles still need to be boiled, As long as there is an intention to do something as difficult as anything, there must be a solution. Yes im still studying that For my future too because im only 14 years old but yeah i love it :haha:

:Kaleun_Wink:
Only 14? Very cool! :salute:
I am 65 years old! :doh:
I started 18 years ago!

Learn how to program Mate! IF you can figure out what steps to take? You can write a program to do it for you!

Now in Mister_M's case? The verts and following information is out of order from the main obj file.
One could write a program to read the main file and then resort the uv2 files to match. I did a somewhat simular Tool for SH5 that I never released.
That one was a little more involved due to how they needed to be done.

[Tigerzhunters]

Only 14? Very cool!

Yes 2008 september 18 but no school because my father decide to moved schools but didn't work because of covid which my father bankrupt :oops:

[Tigerzhunters]

btw is there someone make thread to make animations For crews? because i wanted add to my ship so it not looked dead :hmmm:

[Jeff-Groves]

Ask and you shall recieve!
And YES! I am the one that figured that all out!
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=176928&highlight=The+ultimate

I have also figured out animations for SH4 and SH5. I can transpose between all versions.

[Mister_M]

In theory? Yes one could. In real life? Not worth the effort nor time!
I wrote programs to do things like that but for a different problem/Game.

In the case of your problem files? I'd re-UV the uv2.obj to match the stock UV of the main file. As was my first suggestion. Not solving future issues I understand.
Again, I don't use Wings3D but iambecomelife does. He may be able to help you more then I can. Send him a PM and tell him I sent you to him.

I am finishing up Tools to assist him with Animations.
I'm also testing a different FREE 3D program that handles obj files and does animations.
Art of Illusion looks interesting.

Thanks a bunch for all these explanations and advice. I'll make good use of them. :yep:

[Jeff-Groves]

My pleasure.
I only came into this thread because you posted example files.
No example files? I don't look into a problem.

[Tigerzhunters]

Ask and you shall recieve!
And YES! I am the one that figured that all out!
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=176928&highlight=The+ultimate

I have also figured out animations for SH4 and SH5. I can transpose between all versions.

Thanks you very much i want Garda.dat animantions Be changed into my 3d models but it messed up https://i.postimg.cc/3N3vRMj0/image.png (https://postimages.org/)upload images (https://postimages.org/)

[Jeff-Groves]

You need to read and understand the information in that thread.
It's all been done and proven years ago.
As far as I know? Only DivingDuck ever released working proof.
As far as secondary animations? Like rowing life boat crews?
Only Thunder and I have ever done that.
And We got ripped off by others. I no longer release my work.
You will never see my Type VIIA final for SH3 and SH4.
It includes the full interiors and animations.

[Tigerzhunters]

You need to read and understand the information in that thread.
It's all been done and proven years ago.
As far as I know? Only DivingDuck ever released working proof.
As far as secondary animations? Like rowing life boat crews?
Only Thunder and I have ever done that.
And We got ripped off by others. I no longer release my work.
You will never see my Type VIIA final for SH3 and SH4.
It includes the full interiors and animations.

ok thanks i will study thats :up:

[Jeff-Groves]

OK. You want Animation Knowledge involving Secondary charactors?
Start a new thread and I will answer questions in that.