Are port buoy red and green lights backwards?

[Wolfstriked]

I am a stickler for realism so stuff like this bothers me.When l looked up buoys I found something that SH3 contradicts but I wonder if maybe Germany had decided to do things their own way,like England with driving on left side of road.What I found was that when leaving a port the red buoys should be on port side and green on starboard.Vice versa when entering a port the green buoys are on port side and red on starboard.



""The expression “red right returning” has long been used by seafarers as a reminder
that the red buoys are kept to the starboard (right) side when proceeding from the
open sea into port (upstream). Likewise, green buoys are kept to the port (left) side""


Did Germany do this differently?


http://www.dbw.ca.gov/pages/28702/files/ABC%27s_2016_WaterwayMarkings.pdf

[Mister_M]

In 1943, in France, there was another different color system : https://www.amazon.com/Diagram-French-Buoyage-Buoys-Beacons/dp/B08JH44HJJ

And now, at least in France, the red buoys are on starboard when you leave the harbour...

[Wolfstriked]

Wow confusing to the max.Thanks mister_M for clearing this up for me.
:Kaleun_Applaud:

[Mister_M]

Yes, very confusing... So, better not add them if you're looking for realism... :k_confused:

[Wolfstriked]

LOL yeah the Europeans never did get along so I will chalk this up to human realism!
:Kaleun_Applaud:

[Doolar]

This is funny that this come up. Very early in my SH3 game days, I thought the same thing. I live along side the Chesapeake Bay in Maryland and Red-Right-Return is standard. That's Red, Port and Green, Starboard when heading out. I was figuring it was a non-standard European thing what wasn't standardized until a date after the war at some comference or something like that. No big deal, I just thought that I was the only that noticed that.

[iambecomelife]

On top of all this, I know that some European countries used black instead of green as the designated color for Starboard buoys. IIRC correct colors in the British Isles for many years was red for port, black for starboard, and yellow for wreck buoys.

After WWII green for starboard became standard worldwide (I think!) :hmmm: Before WWII ended buoy systems were, in fact, very confusing due to lack of consistency worldwide.... :yep:

[Wolfstriked]

This is funny that this come up. Very early in my SH3 game days, I thought the same thing. I live along side the Chesapeake Bay in Maryland and Red-Right-Return is standard. That's Red, Port and Green, Starboard when heading out. I was figuring it was a non-standard European thing what wasn't standardized until a date after the war at some comference or something like that. No big deal, I just thought that I was the only that noticed that.





On top of all this, I know that some European countries used black instead of green as the designated color for Starboard buoys. IIRC correct colors in the British Isles for many years was red for port, black for starboard, and yellow for wreck buoys.

After WWII green for starboard became standard worldwide (I think!) :hmmm: Before WWII ended buoy systems were, in fact, very confusing due to lack of consistency worldwide.... :yep:
:k_confused:
As in real life we simmers must be confused too! :o

[Wolfstriked]

Gonna just ask this here rather than start a new thread.Was the type7c/42 actually used? This site says it never saw service so I wonder why its playable....:06:


https://uboat.net/types/viic-42.htm

[iambecomelife]

Gonna just ask this here rather than start a new thread.Was the type7c/42 actually used? This site says it never saw service so I wonder why its playable....:06:


https://uboat.net/types/viic-42.htm

Talked to Capt. Lehmann and he said it was never used in combat.

[Wolfstriked]

Yeah,its a weird sub to include in base game IMO for this reason.And the model we have has the observation scope in the command room while its supposed to be in the conning tower like type IX.I guess the want of MO POWA aka more torpedoes could of been why they chose to include it...:hmmm:

[Kongo Otto]

I am a stickler for realism so stuff like this bothers me.When l looked up buoys I found something that SH3 contradicts but I wonder if maybe Germany had decided to do things their own way,like England with driving on left side of road.What I found was that when leaving a port the red buoys should be on port side and green on starboard.Vice versa when entering a port the green buoys are on port side and red on starboard.



""The expression “red right returning” has long been used by seafarers as a reminder
that the red buoys are kept to the starboard (right) side when proceeding from the
open sea into port (upstream). Likewise, green buoys are kept to the port (left) side""


Did Germany do this differently?


http://www.dbw.ca.gov/pages/28702/files/ABC%27s_2016_WaterwayMarkings.pdf



The technical committee of the International Association of Lighthouse Authorities finally proposed a solution in 1973 which comprised two systems, one operating in the areas around America and the regions influenced by the Americans and one operating in the rest of the world. The regions were called REGION A and REGION B. The main difference between the two systems is the colour of the lateral buoys. In Region A the colour red of the lateral system is used to mark the port side of channels and the colour green the starboard side. In Region B the colours are reversed.

Source: https://maritimesa.org/nautical-science-grade-11/2020/10/27/international-association-of-lighthouse-authorities-iala-buoyage-system-introduction/

The buoys in Sh3's French ports are using the modern IALA Region A buoyage system.
Red right returning is only a thing in the IALA region B which is shown in the pic below.

https://maritimesa.org/nautical-science-grade-11/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2020/10/11.2.3.2_fig_1.jpg

[Wolfstriked]

They couldn't agree even in 1973? I want red as port side outbound NO I want green as port side outbound!Ok we will divide half the world as region A and the other half as region B....does that work? Yeah that seems a great compromise.:har:

:k_confused:

[Kongo Otto]

They couldn't agree even in 1973? I want red as port side outbound NO I want green as port side outbound!Ok we will divide half the world as region A and the other half as region B....does that work? Yeah that seems a great compromise.:har:

:k_confused:


It does work since then without many problems as Region A is basically (when entering port) the same as the position of the ships navigation light port=red, starboard green.
Not really much confusing.
Red right returning = Region B
Red right leaving = Region A

Prior to that solution Europe alone had 9 different bouyage systems.
NINE!! *facepalm*
It surely wasn't easy to get all the worlds nation to agree to these two regions.
But two regions are still better than the plethora of different systems which were used before that.

By the way Germany used the same system (introduced 1887) as the French which Mister M has posted before in this thread.
So if somebody wants to do a historically correct buoyage system for the French U-Boat bases he could make it that way.

[Wolfstriked]

It was 9 and now its 2....progress has been made:up: As for the correct buoys in France mod,I doubt anyone but a select few like us would care.I for one actually enjoy piloting out of harbors at 1X speed so yeah I would use it. :har:

[Kongo Otto]

It was 9 and now its 2....progress has been made:up: As for the correct buoys in France mod,I doubt anyone but a select few like us would care.I for one actually enjoy piloting out of harbors at 1X speed so yeah I would use it. :har:

Yeah, well, at least they could agree to these two, which is already a miracle specially when politicians get involved. :har:

[Wolfstriked]

:Kaleun_Cheers:

[Mister_M]

Source: https://maritimesa.org/nautical-science-grade-11/2020/10/27/international-association-of-lighthouse-authorities-iala-buoyage-system-introduction/


"During the war (1939 – 1945) the countries of Europe removed their buoys to prevent the enemy from using them to raid or invade them. "...

[Wolfstriked]

LOL perfect!! :D
Mister M with the "remark of the day"
:Kaleun_Applaud:

[Kongo Otto]

"During the war (1939 – 1945) the countries of Europe removed their buoys to prevent the enemy from using them to raid or invade them. "...

Yup and they also shut down the lighthouses and ofc total endarkenment of cities was ordered too.
So basically if we leave at one of the French bases it would be completely dark, no bouys ond no lighthouses either.
Tbh, that would add very much immersion to the game, at least imho.
:Kaleun_Cheers:

[Wolfstriked]

:timeout:As much as I love realism I think this area can stay same.Leaving and entering ports at night with lighthouses and buoys lit up is something I would not wanna lose for realism sake.:hmmm:

[Kongo Otto]

Yeah, I can already imagine myself slamming the boat into something while leaving port because it's pitch black. :har:

[Wolfstriked]

Ahead sloooooooooooow and WO please give us warning about land ahead.We have land unit spotted message....why not land ahead message?? :D

[Mister_M]

Perhaps we could add some position lights for the escort ship which is sailing in and out the naval base, in order to help you to navigate (follow the escorter) without buoys and lighthouses...

But then, how the escort ship is able to navigate without naval marks at night ? ... :doh:

[Wolfstriked]

What exactly is the escort ship?I see the mark on map and waited there for a bit but no ship showed up:oops:

[Mister_M]

This is the boat which is supposed to show you the way when you're entering or leaving a harbour, and escorting you until you've reached the harbour or the open sea. This boat should be scripted in the SCR campaign file. It may be a destroyer, a torpedo boat or an armed trawler.

[Wolfstriked]

This is the boat which is supposed to show you the way when you're entering or leaving a harbour, and escorting you until you've reached the harbour or the open sea. This boat should be scripted in the SCR campaign file. It may be a destroyer, a torpedo boat or an armed trawler.


How do you use them though? Like I stop on the escort dot thing on map and wait but nothing happens.And how do you know its there to escort you?
:k_confused:
EDIT: and it would be kool if say at 1941 or 42 or some year chosen the buoys go out forcing you to actually need the escort.As you said a flashing light on the escort ship would be awesome.

[Fifi]

If you want some historical accuracy (as it seems you want) you’ll have to delete all the harbors buoys lights, as well as all lighthouses lights!
Just because during war time, none of them were working … for the blackout :yep:
It will solution your buoys red/green trouble :O:

:Kaleun_Salute:

[Wolfstriked]

Nah...I said earlier that its better to leave them on for beauty reasons.Afterall the British are not invading our ports so why would we even have to do this.If they ever try an attack on our ports than maybe we will reconsider. :)

[Mister_M]

Indeed, why remove buoys inside or near the large harbours which were protected with heavy artillery and air coverage ?


About lighthouses, I know that they could be lighted up for the safety of friendly capital ships which were passing nearby. But I don't know if they were doing this for the passage of U-Boots... :06:

[Wolfstriked]

Indeed, why remove buoys inside or near the large harbours which were protected with heavy artillery and air coverage ?



Maybe to curtail enemy subs?A sub at night trying to get into a port with just a periscope to view out of and crashing into land is very probable.

[Fifi]

About lighthouses, I know that they could be lighted up for the safety of friendly capital ships which were passing nearby. But I don't know if they were doing this for the passage of U-Boots... :06:

Nope only for capital ships … at least on the testimonies i have read, & some web articles

:Kaleun_Salute: