Cold Weather Clothing for fleetboats (HELP!)

[Bubblehead1980]

I've tried for a while to add cold weather clothing to TMO for fleetboats (sboats as well of course, but they do already have a mod, but want them all included). Basically, want to make a JSGME mod can enable before patrols in cooler climates because frankly, its a immersion killer when patrolling Sea of Okhotsk or off New London in January during New Construction, or operating with SubRon 50 in 1942/43 in ATO and in attire would only weather in warmer climates.

I have attempted to add this multiple times, used FOTRS , and some mods previously released for TMO for the S boats only(wondered why people did S boats only, all boats need them) but it ends in CTD every time. I am at my wits end here but would really like to finally have this in the forthcoming TMO 2.0.


So if someone is willing to do it or at least do one boat say a Gato so I can have a working example, I can do the rest I am sure.

[propbeanie]

The FotRSU CWC is almost completely different, and next to impossible to alter to fit TMO. It would be easier to copy the B-Boat version for TMO, and apply it to the other boats. The only difference(s) between the S-Boats and the Fleetboats is that the Gun Room in a Fleetboat is Compartment 7 for aft and Compartment 8 for fore, whereas the S-Boat only has the fore gun in Compartment 6. Otherwise, it is a drop-in for all of the other boats. Similarly with the conning towers, other than there are slight differences in gun configurations, but you always find the Watch in UnitPart X.Compartment 1 (possibly UnitPart 1-4 for each conn), the aft gun crews in Compartment 2, and the fore gun crews in Compartment 3. Otherwise, they all "reside" in CrewMemberSlot X. So Submarine folder, SubName.upc for submarine stuff - which would be the Deck Gun Slots, and the UPCData UPCUnitsData folder, UnitPartsXSubName.upc file for the watch and AA positions. The only caveat is that you crew positions between the boats will be in a different order of ranking, dependent upon Class, such that the S-Boat might have a Junior Officer, a CPO, and a PO1C as your watch leaders, whereas the Fleetboats have Junior Officer, CPO and Junior Officer, but in any of the possible rank order...

[Bubblehead1980]

The FotRSU CWC is almost completely different, and next to impossible to alter to fit TMO. It would be easier to copy the B-Boat version for TMO, and apply it to the other boats. The only difference(s) between the S-Boats and the Fleetboats is that the Gun Room in a Fleetboat is Compartment 7 for aft and Compartment 8 for fore, whereas the S-Boat only has the fore gun in Compartment 6. Otherwise, it is a drop-in for all of the other boats. Similarly with the conning towers, other than there are slight differences in gun configurations, but you always find the Watch in UnitPart X.Compartment 1 (possibly UnitPart 1-4 for each conn), the aft gun crews in Compartment 2, and the fore gun crews in Compartment 3. Otherwise, they all "reside" in CrewMemberSlot X. So Submarine folder, SubName.upc for submarine stuff - which would be the Deck Gun Slots, and the UPCData UPCUnitsData folder, UnitPartsXSubName.upc file for the watch and AA positions. The only caveat is that you crew positions between the boats will be in a different order of ranking, dependent upon Class, such that the S-Boat might have a Junior Officer, a CPO, and a PO1C as your watch leaders, whereas the Fleetboats have Junior Officer, CPO and Junior Officer, but in any of the possible rank order...



I've tried FOTRS as well as Travellers CWC mod and another CWC mod for TMO Sboats, just doesnt work for fleetboats. I made all the changes and does not work. Every time I enable it, CTD, CTD. Disable, not CTD.

I think its the different crew positions etc. but Im pretty much lost and at wits end on this one (unreal how much trouble it is lol) which is why I posted. Yes, I'd love to use the CWC from FOTRS, watch caps etc but at this point but if could get others to work id be happy, something.


Just need a working example perhaps for TMO in a fleetboat, so can make it happen, thus the post. You know how this sim is lol

[flaminus]

Ahoy, BH.

I've tried making CWC mod before, but i realized that due to the "bad mechanism" of the game, the CWC settings would always "remain" in your save file, even if you disable it in JSGME. which means in a campaign, if you return from cold waters and go to tropical again, the crew would still have heavy coats and wool caps. Cold weather clothing will exist during the entire career.:/\\!!

I think that's the reason why previous people only made CWC for Alaska campaign. Because it cannot be a JSGME-ready mod and changed by player's will. :cry:

[Bubblehead1980]

Ahoy, BH.

I've tried making CWC mod before, but i realized that due to the "bad mechanism" of the game, the CWC settings would always "remain" in your save file, even if you disable it in JSGME. which means in a campaign, if you return from cold waters and go to tropical again, the crew would still have heavy coats and wool caps. Cold weather clothing will exist during the entire career.:/\\!!

I think that's the reason why previous people only made CWC for Alaska campaign. Because it cannot be a JSGME-ready mod and changed by player's will. :cry:

Yes, had that experience when tried to use CWC for S boats on fleet boats previously. No issues with S Boats.

Apparently FOTRS CWC mod works fine with fleetboats and does not remain when mod removes. A relatively easy fix is to backup the file prior to enabling mod, if it sticks, can make some edits. Worst case you lose a patrol. Would definitely be worth having mod if could get it working as FOTRS has.


I tried again this evening, two CTD due to CWC mod. quite aggravating.

[flaminus]

Apparently FOTRS CWC mod works fine with fleetboats and does not remain when mod removes

Really? I used "805_CWC_FIOQ" in the FotRSU addinpack and it remains. do you mean the CWC mod for original FOTRS?

[propbeanie]

They do indeed "stick" if you do a career with more than one patrol. The only way to "fix" that is to "remove" the CWC with another mod, or do massive quantities of text editing in the Save folder by hand... The "crew" and "clothing" things are a royal #$%@& pain in the hind quarters... We had a person playing FotRSU move a crew member in the boat, and the clothing he was wearing on the interior, followed him topside, resulting in doubled "hats" on his head... Very frustrating to attempt to mod something, that the game engine does not "track" in a sensible way... :roll: - either have the clothing follow the position, or have the game automatically do proper "cold weather" and "battle stations" clothing and gear for the entire crew. They go outside? then they have the proper gear... but ~no~ can't do that... they never finished the game. Look at the "wet weather" gear... only comes on when it is dumping rain and the wind is up, not when it is light rain, or the seas are up... sigh :arrgh!:

[Bubblehead1980]

They do indeed "stick" if you do a career with more than one patrol. The only way to "fix" that is to "remove" the CWC with another mod, or do massive quantities of text editing in the Save folder by hand... The "crew" and "clothing" things are a royal #$%@& pain in the hind quarters... We had a person playing FotRSU move a crew member in the boat, and the clothing he was wearing on the interior, followed him topside, resulting in doubled "hats" on his head... Very frustrating to attempt to mod something, that the game engine does not "track" in a sensible way... :roll: - either have the clothing follow the position, or have the game automatically do proper "cold weather" and "battle stations" clothing and gear for the entire crew. They go outside? then they have the proper gear... but ~no~ can't do that... they never finished the game. Look at the "wet weather" gear... only comes on when it is dumping rain and the wind is up, not when it is light rain, or the seas are up... sigh :arrgh!:


Ahh I had not noticed it sticking when I tested it in FOTRS. All cleared out when I disabled mod. I suppose would hav eventually.

So basically need a mod with "normal" (fair weather) clothing to restore after removing the CWC. Something I'd gladly include once have it working in TMO.

Yes, its ridiculous the unfinished state in which the sim was released. Do wish we could do hardcoded fixes are SH 3 has (how did those come about anyways?)


Anyways, still trying to chug along and have the CWC mod for fleetboats in TMO happen. Try number 21 I think lmao.

[flaminus]

SH4 doesn't have a dynamic mechanism to change between normal clothes and cold clothes, so I suppose it's also impossible to use another mod to restore normal clothes. the clothes are settled when a career starts, unless start a new one or manually editing save files. As BH said, maybe we need a hardcore fix to alter the game.

[J0313]

I have been saying that someone with the skill to modify the SH4 hardcode should really look into it. It's been done with SH3 and SH5 so why not SH4. But for some unknown reason there are people in the SH4 community who are adamantly against it even though their objections are by now unfounded.

[Bubblehead1980]

I have been saying that someone with the skill to modify the SH4 hardcode should really look into it. It's been done with SH3 and SH5 so why not SH4. But for some unknown reason there are people in the SH4 community who are adamantly against it even though their objections are by now unfounded.

Yes, quite unfortunate. We could do so much like other SH games have. Ah.

[Fifi]

In my Dark Waters main mod, I have an add-on mod for cold weather clothes … that was working great, activating it before mission, and deactivating it when better days coming.

Maybe you could try it… but it was for German U-Boats… anyway you can use it as you want :up:

:Kaleun_Salute:

[Bubblehead1980]

In my Dark Waters main mod, I have an add-on mod for cold weather clothes … that was working great, activating it before mission, and deactivating it when better days coming.

Maybe you could try it… but it was for German U-Boats… anyway you can use it as you want :up:

:Kaleun_Salute:


Thanks, but that is the problem I have run into. I have no examples for fleetboats in TMO. I've tried many times to follow examples of other mods and try to make it happen with TMO but I am doing something wrong as always causes CTD. Thus the plea for help, as I really want to get this into the next version of the mod.

[KaleunMarco]

I have been saying that someone with the skill to modify the SH4 hardcode should really look into it. It's been done with SH3 and SH5 so why not SH4. But for some unknown reason there are people in the SH4 community who are adamantly against it even though their objections are by now unfounded.

modifying hard coding violates the use license for any software package/program/system.
read the license agreement for SH4 (or any piece of software that you use) and you will see what i mean.

we, subsim users, are applying changes to certain game parameters which change the conditions under which we play the game, however modifying code is a federal offense, with fines and jail, if convicted.

:salute:

[J0313]

modifying hard coding violates the use license for any software package/program/system.
read the license agreement for SH4 (or any piece of software that you use) and you will see what i mean.

we, subsim users, are applying changes to certain game parameters which change the conditions under which we play the game, however modifying code is a federal offense, with fines and jail, if convicted.

:salute:

Ok, so explain to me why it has been done by Steibler and Hsie for SH3 and Thedarkwraith for SH5 which by the way is a newer game than SH4. Like I said unfounded concern.

[KaleunMarco]

Ok, so explain to me why it has been done by Steibler and Hsie for SH3 and Thedarkwraith for SH5 which by the way is a newer game than SH4. Like I said unfounded concern.

well, then, you have it solved.

[flaminus]

Ahoy BH， What type of CWC mod do you wish to have? One type is to add cold cloth for all crew members, including the men inside the boat; The other type is to add cloth only for deck watch and deck gun crew.

The first one could be dynamic, just like the one in Dark Waters, but i assumed it's not historical because it always very hot inside a sub. :hmmm:

[Bubblehead1980]

[QUOTE=flaminus;2802553]Ahoy BH， What type of CWC mod do you wish to have? One type is to add cold cloth for all crew members, including the men inside the boat; The other type is to add cloth only for deck watch and deck gun crew.


I will PM you.:Kaleun_Salute:

[J0313]

well, then, you have it solved.

No I don't have it solved. The people I mentioned have it solved. You should go and check out what they did to do it legally. They made apps which will do it for you but you have to modify your own .exe per the instructions provided by the modder. That is not illegal. It just has to be done the right way. I mean really, I cant believe that there are people who don't know this in the SH4 community.

[Gray Lensman]

Ok, so explain to me why it has been done by Steibler and Hsie for SH3 and Thedarkwraith for SH5 which by the way is a newer game than SH4. Like I said unfounded concern.


+1


I also think the law was designed and intended to prevent others from taking someone else's work, modifying it, and then reselling it for profit. In the case of mods, all of the end users have actually bought and paid for the unmodified code and THEN applied the modified code to their originally unmodified code. Clearly not being sold for profit, nor undercutting the sales of the original unmodified code. In fact, it's somewhat prolonging the sales life of the original code.

[J0313]

+1


I also think the law was designed and intended to prevent others from taking someone else's work, modifying it, and then reselling it for profit. In the case of mods, all of the end users have actually bought and paid for the unmodified code and THEN applied the modified code to their originally unmodified code. Clearly not being sold for profit, nor undercutting the sales of the original unmodified code. In fact, it's somewhat prolonging the sales life of the original code.

That is exactly the point I was trying to make but I don't think they bought the code.

[propbeanie]

To quote a portion of their 'modern' UConnect EULA:
"...
Ubisoft grants the User a non-exclusive and non-transferable Licence to use the Multimedia Product, but remains the owner of all the rights relating thereto.
Any rights not specifically transferred by this Licence remain the property of Ubisoft.
...
The User is authorised to use the Multimedia Product in accordance with the instructions provided in the manual or on the packaging of the Multimedia Product.
The Licence is granted solely for private use.

It is not permitted:
- To make copies of the Multimedia Product,
- To operate the Multimedia Product commercially,
- To use it contrary to morality or the laws in force,
- To modify the Multimedia Product or create any derived work,
- To transmit the Multimedia Product via a telephone network or any other electronic means, except during multi-player games on authorised networks,
- To create or distribute unauthorised levels and/or scenarios,
- To decompile, reverse engineer or disassemble the Multimedia Product.
..."
Plus, they are still charging $9.99 US regularly on their web site store front (US) for SHII (yes, "2" - T.U.E...), III, 4 & 5. That tells me they still feel they own and protect their copyright, though it may not seem like it most of the time. I am inclined to leave sleeping dogs lie in this regard, especially for SH4 & 5. Others might feel led as you fellers. You never know. They did grant permission for folks on SubSim to re-work portions of SHII / Destroyer Command years ago to make online playing possible, and they have basically side-stepped SH3 distribution, but... :salute:

[J0313]

- To create or distribute unauthorised levels and/or scenarios.

Just with that statement alone half of the stuff on here is probably illegal. Bah!!

[J0313]

I would really like to know how many people that have posted in this thread have actually looked at the hard code modifications that have been done for SH3 and 5. It sounds to me like none other than Bubblehead and myself.

[propbeanie]

- To create or distribute unauthorised levels and/or scenarios.

Just with that statement alone half of the stuff on here is probably illegal. Bah!!
That's kind of what I'm getting at. Interpretation. For my thinking, that line applies to all the lines above it, and has to do with altering the product's internal binary code for non-Ubi profit. I know I don't have the brains or know-how to build a hex-edited injection file set. But even if I did, I do not trust software companies. The way I look at it though, is mods of all sorts help Ubisoft's sales of the SH series, actually prolonging their life, and they really should encourage folks to tinker with the internals by releasing more documentation. It is an old 'engine'. But they should tone-down the draconian language... lol

[Mad Mardigan]

That's kind of what I'm getting at. Interpretation. For my thinking, that line applies to all the lines above it, and has to do with altering the product's internal binary code for non-Ubi profit. I know I don't have the brains or know-how to build a hex-edited injection file set. But even if I did, I do not trust software companies. The way I look at it though, is mods of all sorts help Ubisoft's sales of the SH series, actually prolonging their life, and they really should encourage folks to tinker with the internals by releasing more documentation. It is an old 'engine'. But they should tone-down the draconian language... lol

Was sitting here thinking...

The only reason, that Ubi... hasn't seriously pushed on that, is... that they would basically, be killing the goose (or in this case, geese) that are laying their golden eggs, for them.

That mods (& the modders here, for the most part...:yep:) have driven the thrust of their 'coinage' gains from SH3, 4... (& in a weeee small part) 5. Not to take anything away from those that do what they do, to make 5, NOT be sooo much, of a dumpster fire that Ubi shoved it out the pipe, as... :shucks: :yep:

They could, raise a stink about it... BUT...

on the other hand, they have done... NOTHING... at all, to update any of it, &... it has been well documented, that for all intents... they consider sub simming, a dead end niche... sad, but... true. From a certain view point.

Add to that, for all intents & purposes, because of that... the only thing Ubi hasn't done, is kick the corpse into the ground & start shoving dirt over it... yet.

To those of us, who play... (& enjoy the SH lineage...) do NOT see it as a niche thing.

In its own way, it is a means & methodology, to keep history alive & never forget.

At least to Me, My own opinion on that... whether any one else feels the same way... dunno, but... I hope it is thought of in that light, by others... :hmmm:

*sighs* any way, that's just My thoughts about it...


:Kaleun_Salute:

M. M.