[WIP] Realistic low-poly Buckley-class DE [Archive]

Mister_M

12-15-21, 09:30 AM

I'm testing the idea of a realistic ship model but with a low poly rate like the standard SH3 units... So I will create low-poly meshes (but based on historical plans and pictures) and remove all small and useless details (which can't be seen from a periscope point of view anyway...). So in short : ships' models adapted to a submarine simulation.

I've built from scratch a new model based on the World of Warships' Buckley DE model (SH3 conversion made by Alex.B).

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2021/12/15//21121503493018069017714016.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/21121503493018069017714016.png.html)

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2021/12/15//21121503493118069017714017.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/21121503493118069017714017.png.html)

The WoWS model (main meshes without details) has 10260 triangles whereas mine has 3400 triangles. And the aspect is (nearly) identical... (For comparison, SH3 vanilla ugly model is around 9000 triangles).

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2021/12/15//21121503461418069017714015.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/21121503461418069017714015.png.html)

This new model I've built will be an excellent base to even improve the WoWS model (which has some flaws) and to build the Cannon and Rudderow classes on top of the same hull, and the Evarts and Butler classes on a slightly modified hull.

The idea would be to re-use the GWX textures for compatibility, unless it's possible or better to create historical textures...

Now, I'm correcting the WoWS based model with technical plans :

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2021/12/15//21121503250518069017713992.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/21121503250518069017713992.png.html)

iambecomelife

12-15-21, 09:47 AM

Great work and a very neat, accurate model based on the screenshots! I can't believe SH3 will be 20 years old; many more improvements like this are needed to its ships, which are starting to show their age.

John Pancoast

12-15-21, 01:56 PM

:salute: Outstanding !

kapuhy

12-15-21, 05:23 PM

Wow, that's really great looking ship for such a small count, good work :salute:

Mad Mardigan

12-15-21, 05:30 PM

Very nice work... :Kaleun_Cheers:

:Kaleun_Salute:

M. M.

Mister_M

12-16-21, 12:13 PM

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2021/12/16//21121611032918069017715791.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/21121611032918069017715791.png.html)

Mister_M

12-21-21, 05:05 PM

When you look closely, all details of the WoWS model are wrong. :hmph:

JapLance

12-22-21, 02:41 AM

Many WoWs models are not 100% copies of the original ships. They're adapted to fit the game, sometimes very grossly.

It's very noticeable when you check the AA arrangements, for instance. Sometimes they even make up hypothetical refits to shoehorn a ship in a tier she was not meant to be in.

kapuhy

12-22-21, 04:51 AM

Another thing is that ships of the same class were not identical. This came up for me when modeling YMS minesweeper: when I started to browse photos for reference, every ship was different in some way - one funnel or two funnels, big rectangular vents or small round vents, steel bulkwark or just a railing, covered or open bridge, different placement for lifeboats, not to mention different armament :doh:

Mister_M

12-22-21, 06:14 AM

I mean, all the bright red areas are wrong :

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2021/12/22//21122212344318069017721506.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/21122212344318069017721506.png.html)

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2021/12/22//21122212392318069017721507.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/21122212392318069017721507.png.html)

Mister_M

12-30-21, 08:13 AM

I don't have GWX installed anymore. Could someone send me the GWX files (.dat, .sim, ... and textures) for the Evarts, Buckley and Butler destroyer escorts please ?

Mister_M

12-31-21, 06:13 AM

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2021/12/31//21123112333918069017730027.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/21123112333918069017730027.png.html)

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2021/12/31//21123112334018069017730028.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/21123112334018069017730028.png.html)

Mister_M

01-01-22, 08:05 AM

I don't have GWX installed anymore. Could someone send me the GWX files (.dat, .sim, ... and textures) for the Evarts, Buckley and Butler destroyer escorts please ?

No one wants to help ? :-?

FUBAR295

01-01-22, 08:27 AM

Have only the Evart and Buckley files. Maybe someone else has the Butler.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/a60amogur40qhl8/Evart+Buckley+Help.7z/file

Good hunting,
FUBAR295

Jeff-Groves

01-01-22, 08:57 AM

That would be the NDE_JCB folder

FUBAR295

01-01-22, 09:05 AM

Thanks Jeff:salute:

Mister M ;

Here's the Butler file ;

https://www.mediafire.com/file/optg4ao7h7z3l5l/NDE_JCB.7z/file

Good hunting,
FUBAR295

Mister_M

01-01-22, 09:23 AM

Great ! Thanks a bunch FUBAR295 !

:Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

FUBAR295

01-01-22, 09:51 AM

Glad to help! :yeah:

Mister_M

01-03-22, 03:29 PM

Reworked stern and preparation for UV-mapping. The goal being to create real dazzle camo skins (http://www.usndazzle.com/ships.php?category=5&class=2).

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2022/01/04//22010402150518069017737041.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/22010402150518069017737041.png.html)

Mister_M

01-04-22, 01:59 PM

BUCKLEY-class :

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2022/01/04//22010408201718069017737895.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/22010408201718069017737895.png.html)

CANNON-class :

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2022/01/04//22010408201718069017737896.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/22010408201718069017737896.png.html)

Mister_M

01-04-22, 03:11 PM

WoWS' model's vertical scale doesn't match with plans found on the internet. I don't know which one is correct... :/\\!!

Mad Mardigan

01-04-22, 03:15 PM

Very nice... can't wait to see the finished model. :yep:

Hopefully the start of the means to have the ships, subs & all... being a lot less, resource heavy while still retaining enough detail, to look grand. Thereby, allowing for a more... realistic looking sim that SH3... & moving forward to 4 & if possible, 5 as well. :yep: could have been & would. That, at least, is the hope with the work done here. :shucks:

:Kaleun_Salute:

M. M.

Mad Mardigan

01-04-22, 03:17 PM

WoWS' model's vertical scale doesn't match with plans found on the internet. I don't know which one is correct... :/\\!!

Hopefully someone who knows & has more... eperience with working with WoWs', conversions will step up, to provide details into the proper methodology to get the dimensions, set to rights. :yep:

:Kaleun_Salute:

M. M.

Mister_M

01-04-22, 03:57 PM

Hopefully someone who knows & has more... eperience with working with WoWs', conversions will step up, to provide details into the proper methodology to get the dimensions, set to rights. :yep:

:Kaleun_Salute:

M. M.

I would like to know what sources they used to build the WoWS Buckley model... I can't find original technical blueprints...

Mad Mardigan

01-04-22, 04:21 PM

I would like to know what sources they used to build the WoWS Buckley model... I can't find original technical blueprints...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Buckley_(DE-51)

http://snipboard.io/m9ode1.jpg

http://www.destroyers.org/shipsstore/profiles/APD-buckley%20class.htm

https://destroyerhistory.org/de/classes/

Think these bp's, are similar.. I will say, is possible I may be wrong.. but looks very similar...

https://maritime.org/doc/plans/de701.pdf

Hope this info helps... :shucks:

:Kaleun_Salute:

M. M.

JapLance

01-04-22, 04:48 PM

I'd stick to WoWs ship dimensions. The game is rubbish, but the 3D models department know their stuff.

Mister_M

01-05-22, 07:04 AM

http://snipboard.io/m9ode1.jpg

Good plan, but it's too small and a bit out of shape (not perfectly flat and right angled). At least, it gaves a useful information about the propellers' position. :)

url]https://maritime.org/doc/plans/de701.pdf[/url]

Oh ! Great plan ! Despite all my researches, I didn't found a plan with that precision. I wish I've found it sooner ! ...

Hope this info helps... :shucks:

:Kaleun_Salute:

M. M.

Yes, sure it does ! Thank you very much ! :yeah:

I'd stick to WoWs ship dimensions. The game is rubbish, but the 3D models department know their stuff.

Probably, but this particular unit (not being a playable unit, but just an element for "decoration") may not have been extremly "polished" and I've found some substantial errors.

Mad Mardigan

01-05-22, 01:32 PM

http://snipboard.io/m9ode1.jpg

Good plan, but it's too little and a bit out of shape (not perfectly flat and right angled). At least, it gave useful information about the propellers' position. :)

Even though it is a bit out of sorts, it still retains useful info. The prop's position, as you noted being just 1 of many.
Which is why I included it in there. :yep:

https://maritime.org/doc/plans/de701.pdf
Oh ! Great plan ! Despite all my researches, I didn't found a plan with that precision. I wish I've found it, sooner.!

Is a lot of plans like that there... just have to comb through to find the 1 you need though.. even in the short time, of pulling together the minute, bit of info I posted, that 1 there... took a bit of doing as there is sooo much info available there. :yep:

Hope this info helps... :shucks:

:Kaleun_Salute:

M. M.

Yes, sure it does ! Thank you very much ! :yeah:

:yep: :shucks: You're welcome. :up:

Probably, but this particular unit (not being a playable unit, but just an element for "decoration") may not have been extremly "polished" and I've found some substantial errors.

:Kaleun_Salute:

M. M.

Mister_M

01-05-22, 01:52 PM

Anvar1061

01-05-22, 02:59 PM

Mad Mardigan

01-05-22, 03:19 PM

@ JapLance : You were right, WoWS' model's main dimensions match almost perfectly with the detailed plan found by Mad Mardigan. :up:

@ Mad Mardigan : Could you see if you can find the plan that you posted in a higher resolution ? I have an outdated navigator and I can't access all websites. I'm very interested by the hull lines, for a nice and realistic hull. :yep:

Know with edge... won't display the plans, at all. :damn: Thanks, Microshaft for that... NOT. :nope:

Google chrome, did display, just fine. Would say that, Opera... should, as well.

As for the rez on the plans, think that is the best they have on it in that score.

I'll do some more poking about & see if I can find any other sites that offer as good as or better than maritime's site there... on plans. :shucks:

:Kaleun_Salute:

M. M.

Mister_M

01-07-22, 05:25 AM

gap

01-07-22, 03:10 PM

I would like to apply a dazzle camo skin (like this one : http://www.usndazzle.com/Destroyer%20Escorts%20Drawings/51%203D.jpg) directly on the vertical surfaces of each sides of the ship (front, back, starboard and port), without having all surfaces automatically re-arranged and turned. I would like to have a direct orthogonal "projection" of the side of the ship on the texture.

I don't know how to do this...

Anyone with good Wings3D skills ?

:k_confused:

Select the hull faces that you want to unwrap on each side, right click and select 'UV Mapping' from the drop down menu (do it with the middle mouse button if the faces are already UV mapped, so to force their re-segmentation).

In the 'AutoUV Segmenting' window select the edges which you want to be the boundary of each UV region (they should delimit two specular side projections whose faces are nearly orthogonal to the X axis), right click and choose 'Mark for cut'.

Switch to Orthogonal View, and press either 'x' or 'shift x' on your keyboard to align the camera with the x axis.

Right click again, chose 'Continue' from the context menu and then 'Projection Camera'.

If you have followed my steps, you will find yourself with two identical side projections of your hull, one for the port side and the other for the starboard side. One of the sides will be flipped though.

If you plan your UV map/camo scheme to be specular from left to right, select both UV regions in Oject Mode, right click and choose 'Move to' => 'Center', so that they will overlap each other perfectly.

If you want each side to have its own skin (useful if you want to paint letters on the sides or if you want to apply an asymmetric camouflage), select the flipped UV projection in Object Mode, right click and choose 'Flip' => 'Horizontal'

That's it, but be careful not include the ship bottom (if the ship is flat-bottomed) and/or the stern in this process, otherwise their UV projections will be heavily distorted. Those areas should be segmented separately frpm the rest and you should choose another unfolding method for them :salute:

Mister_M

01-07-22, 05:42 PM

gap

01-07-22, 06:21 PM

@ gap : Thank you for your help, very apreciated ! :yep:

Unfortunately, I fear than it won't help, because I've already done all of those steps before asking for help, and the result was not the one expected by me. Indeed, all separate areas (of a particular side of the ship, in my case it was the port side, painted in light blue, as you can see here : https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2786156&postcount=19 --- each side of the model has a particular color : red for front, purple for back, yellow for starboard and light blue for port side, thus I can select a side very quickly without forgetting any small faces) are moved and turned automatically by Wings3D during the UV-mapping process, in order to save space probably.

But I want them to appear on the texture exactly as I can see them on the model (with X-axis aligned camera view, in orthogonal projection mod), in order to apply easily all real dazzle camo skins that I've found (http://www.usndazzle.com/ships.php?category=5&class=2)

From your screenshots it appears that you have assigned different materials to different portions of your ship, but you have not UV-unwrapped your model yet. After you unwrap it, you get the option to create a blank texture with UV lines. Using a painting program with layer support you can overlap this texture with real photographs of your ship for painting realistic camo schemes. Of course, no photograph is comparable to an orthographic projection, so you will need to deform your pictures so that they match the borders of your orthographic UV map as much as possible :yep:

Mister_M

01-07-22, 06:34 PM

http://snipboard.io/m9ode1.jpg

I've found this :
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/wwii-navy-destroyer-escort-warship-1822746815

They are (very) good plans ! But the problem is that the pictures are distorted by the camera. I know this can be corrected by graphic editors, but I don't have this skill... :doh:

@ gap : I will answer you later with screenshots, no more time right now. :salute:

gap

01-07-22, 06:48 PM

I've found this :
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/wwii-navy-destroyer-escort-warship-1822746815

They are (very) good plans ! But the problem is that the pictures are distorted by the camera. I know this can be corrected by graphic editors, but I don't have this skill... :doh:

Yes, if they have a decent resolution those plans can be straightened using any raster graphic editor. They won't be accurate to the millimeter or to the second, but always better than no plans at all :03:

@ gap : I will answer you later with screenshots, no more time right now. :salute:

Take your time :salute:

Mad Mardigan

01-07-22, 10:10 PM

I've found this :
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/wwii-navy-destroyer-escort-warship-1822746815

They are (very) good plans ! But the problem is that the pictures are distorted by the camera. I know this can be corrected by graphic editors, but I don't have this skill... :doh:

@ gap : I will answer you later with screenshots, no more time right now. :salute:

Ran across that site, as well... in My extended search... still looking for any site that like that maritime site, free viewing of plans & such info on older WW2 ships. Thus far, have noted some sites that were... alright, but... the size/s of images & such, sucked. Am still beating the bushes... soon as I find something that I believe to be more than, adequate... will forward that to ya. :yep: :shucks:

:Kaleun_Salute:

M. M.

gap

01-08-22, 12:52 PM

... are moved and turned automatically by Wings3D during the UV-mapping process, in order to save space probably.

@ Mister_M

I have re-read your post more carefully, and I think I know what do you mean. Wings3D scales, turns and arranges UV regions so to keep their relative proportions and so to maximize their size relative to the texture space. This probably happens because you UV mapped the whole model at once.
You can straighten up UV region separately. To do so select one of the edges that you want to be perfectly horizontal/vertical, right click and choose 'Turn', followed by either 'Chart to X' or 'Chart to Y'.
Wings3D can't automatically arrange different UV regions (in our case hull and superstructure sides) according to their relative arrangement in an orthogonal projection, but you can do that manually. Just pick up a plan of your ship (side elevation), preferably the one that your model is based on, make it square in raster graphic program and use it as your model's texture.
After doing that, you can scale/arrange your UV map so that each part will match perfectly its desired position on the ship plan :yep:

Jeff-Groves

01-08-22, 02:21 PM

UV mapping is an ART!
:o
Just doing say a side view of a ships hull can be challenging!
You may need to Manually adjust UV's so you don't get the 'stretching' you see in Stock SH3 units.

gap

01-08-22, 10:36 PM

UV mapping is an ART!
:o

You know the funny part of it? first you strive creating a nicely curved and smooth surface having only flat triangles as your building material, and then you get to struggle for flattening it as much as possible :doh:

Just doing say a side view of a ships hull can be challenging!
You may need to Manually adjust UV's so you don't get the 'stretching' you see in Stock SH3 units.[/QUOTE]

Wings3D got an option for optimizing the stretching, it keeps the boundaries fixed and it moves around the inner vertices, but depending on your texture and object's geometry some manual adjustment is always needed. Talking about ships, the most complicated part is usually the stern, especially counter and canoe sterns. A simple orthographic projection won't work on them.

Mister_M

01-09-22, 04:19 AM

... still looking for any site that like that maritime site, free viewing of plans & such info on older WW2 ships. Thus far, have noted some sites that were... alright, but... the size/s of images & such, sucked. Am still beating the bushes... soon as I find something that I believe to be more than, adequate... will forward that to ya. :yep: :shucks:

Thank you ! :up:

I have re-read your post more carefully, and I think I know what do you mean. Wings3D scales, turns and arranges UV regions so to keep their relative proportions and so to maximize their size relative to the texture space.

You got my point.

This probably happens because you UV mapped the whole model at once.

I combined all meshes, then selected all the faces of the port side (light blue material) and started the UV-mapping process.

You can straighten up UV region separately. To do so select one of the edges that you want to be perfectly horizontal/vertical, right click and choose 'Turn', followed by either 'Chart to X' or 'Chart to Y'.

Oh, I didn't know that. I will try this. :yep:

Wings3D can't automatically arrange different UV regions (in our case hull and superstructure sides) according to their relative arrangement in an orthogonal projection, but you can do that manually. Just pick up a plan of your ship (side elevation), preferably the one that your model is based on, make it square in raster graphic program and use it as your model's texture. After doing that, you can scale/arrange your UV map so that each part will match perfectly its desired position on the ship plan :yep:

Yes, that was my plan if all else failed. But isn't there any 3D software which is able to arrange different UV regions according to their relative arrangement in an orthogonal projection ? :D

Mister_M

01-10-22, 06:26 PM

Buckley Class (DE)http://files.balancer.ru/forums/attaches/26/25/2625fb5e28a361b83aa8ace161208338.jpg
http://files.balancer.ru/forums/attaches/eb/9c/eb9c4d7f64757ff4481c4dc477d430f1.jpghttp://files.balancer.ru/forums/attaches/35/e9/35e9d8dee0c3b8e93778dd4b44767068.jpg

I can't use these pictures, but interesting infos anyway, thank you ! :up:

You know the funny part of it? first you strive creating a nicely curved and smooth surface having only flat triangles as your building material, and then you get to struggle for flattening it as much as possible :doh:

I'm not sure to understand you correctly.

Mad Mardigan

01-10-22, 06:38 PM

You know the funny part of it? first you strive creating a nicely curved and smooth surface having only flat triangles as your building material, and then you get to struggle for flattening it as much as possible :doh:

I'm not sure to understand you correctly.

Think the reference that gap was going for... was considering, the irony of it all... the creation of the appearance of curving surfaces, from non curved images...

Would be My guess, Mister_M.... :hmmm: :hmmm: :yep:

:shucks:

:Kaleun_Salute:

M. M.