FotRSU ST Radar Questions

[propbeanie]

OK folks - the game does not like changing the Observation periscope, but we do have a way around the issue, sort-of... but first some questions about this:
Option 1: Keep it as-is. I like it when the Observation Periscope fails on 1st Jan 1945

Option 2: Make a cloned conn "upgrade" that might add the new ST Periscope, and then allow an add-on ST Radar that displays on the NavMap only (you do have to 'qualify' for a new conn).

Option 3: Make a cloned conn "upgrade" for the boat (as in #2) and the ST Periscope, and then an UpgradePack for the ST that will eliminate the SJ antenna, but allows PPI and NavMap display (better for MapContacts "Off" people).

Option 4: Disable the ST across all boats except the Tench
As it stands in the current, and all previous versions of FotRSU, if you do a new start after 01 January, 1945, you will have ST Radar, but will lose the SJ antenna displaying on the boat, which looks weird to me, but you do have a functional SJ and ST radar that displays on the PPI and NavMap (if Map Contacts are "On"). However, if you are on patrol 31 December, 1944 to 01 January, 1945, with an existing boat that is eligible for ST Radar, the game's attempt to "Upgrade" your Observation (Night) Periscope to the ST Radar version, it will fail, and then the Observation Periscope ceases to function. Now, we could "pretend" that the motor failed on it, or a lift cable broke, or whatever, but there is no indication of a failure, other than you cannot go to the station. In some cases, the periscope will be unusable for the remainder of that career.

The first "fix" we came up with, making the ST Radar an "Add-on" instead of an upgrade, allows the SJ radar to remain on the boat, but you do have a somewhat functioning ST Radar when you raise the Observation Periscope - if we could get the ST Periscope to install - but the "display" for any radar blip indications are only on the NavMap, and will NOT display on the PPI station. This makes it basically unusable for those with NavMap contacts turned "Off"... the "key" to this functioning though, is getting the Observation Periscope to change to the ST Radar Periscope - which it will NOT DO, even in an "UpgradePack". Alternatively, we could make the ST Radar an upgrade, and then you will see the display on the PPI screen. However, since the game will only allow one and only one Surface Radar Antenna, the ST antenna will "kill" the SJ antenna, which will no longer display on the conn. How important is that to folks?

A "tested" version with a conning tower change does indeed allow a change of the Periscope shaft and head, which then allows a proper application of either an ST "add-on" (no PPI, but does display on the NavMap) or as an "upgrade" (displays on the PPI, but eliminates the SJ antenna).

So, how important is it to the users to "see" that SJ antenna, or how important is it to have it display on the NavMap only, or how important is the ST to you anyway? It did not make it to very many boats prior to the end of the war... Thanks :salute:

Well, apparently, a person cannot edit a "Poll" after a post goes "live" (5 minutes) oh well...

[KaleunMarco]

OK folks - the game does not like changing the Observation periscope, but we do have a way around the issue, sort-of... but first some questions about this:
Option 1: Keep it as-is. I like it when the Observation Periscope fails on 1st Jan 1945

Option 2: Make a cloned conn "upgrade" that might add the new ST Periscope, and then allow an add-on ST Radar that displays on the NavMap only (you do have to 'qualify' for a new conn).

Option 3: Make a cloned conn "upgrade" for the boat (as in #2) and the ST Periscope, and then an UpgradePack for the ST that will eliminate the SJ antenna, but allows PPI and NavMap display (better for MapContacts "Off" people).

Option 4: Disable the ST across all boats except the Tench
As it stands in the current, and all previous versions of FotRSU, if you do a new start after 01 January, 1945, you will have ST Radar, but will lose the SJ antenna displaying on the boat, which looks weird to me, but you do have a functional SJ and ST radar that displays on the PPI and NavMap (if Map Contacts are "On"). However, if you are on patrol 31 December, 1944 to 01 January, 1945, with an existing boat that is eligible for ST Radar, the game's attempt to "Upgrade" your Observation (Night) Periscope to the ST Radar version, it will fail, and then the Observation Periscope ceases to function. Now, we could "pretend" that the motor failed on it, or a lift cable broke, or whatever, but there is no indication of a failure, other than you cannot go to the station. In some cases, the periscope will be unusable for the remainder of that career.

The first "fix" we came up with, making the ST Radar an "Add-on" instead of an upgrade, allows the SJ radar to remain on the boat, but you do have a somewhat functioning ST Radar when you raise the Observation Periscope - if we could get the ST Periscope to install - but the "display" for any radar blip indications are only on the NavMap, and will NOT display on the PPI station. This makes it basically unusable for those with NavMap contacts turned "Off"... the "key" to this functioning though, is getting the Observation Periscope to change to the ST Radar Periscope - which it will NOT DO, even in an "UpgradePack". Alternatively, we could make the ST Radar an upgrade, and then you will see the display on the PPI screen. However, since the game will only allow one and only one Surface Radar Antenna, the ST antenna will "kill" the SJ antenna, which will no longer display on the conn. How important is that to folks?

A "tested" version with a conning tower change does indeed allow a change of the Periscope shaft and head, which then allows a proper application of either an ST "add-on" (no PPI, but does display on the NavMap) or as an "upgrade" (displays on the PPI, but eliminates the SJ antenna).

So, how important is it to the users to "see" that SJ antenna, or how important is it to have it display on the NavMap only, or how important is the ST to you anyway? It did not make it to very many boats prior to the end of the war... Thanks :salute:

Well, apparently, a person cannot edit a "Poll" after a post goes "live" (5 minutes) oh well...

assuming that you want responses since the poll failed.

options 2 and 3 would be my preferences.

[fitzcarraldo]

2 and 3 seem very good as an addon mod.

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :Kaleun_Salute:

[Arlo]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/QuestionableMilkyAbyssiniangroundhornbill-size_restricted.gif

[propbeanie]

Do NOT seek thee treasure - do NOT seek thee treasure...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDEqgmGIVg

How many of your are there?... 'n' only three of yas kinn rite?...


I suppose we should find out how many folks are using manual-targeting with no map contacts on?... who amongst all y'all are crazy enough to be that realistic? lol :D

[Mad Mardigan]

Considering it all, am with the others.. option 2 or 3.

As is, I do roll with map contacts on.. Am pretty sure the guys on subs, did take radio messages & plot them out on something if not on to the maps directly in some fashion. Using map contacts on, to Me at any rate.. fills in for that. Of course, that's just the way I roll & I know and am smart enough to realize that not every one will agree with that, which is fine... as the saying goes, to each their own. :shucks: :yep:

With that said, I would even if it means the subs conn doesn't show the 'equipment' exactly... (which it'd be nice if it did & would.. :yep:) I for 1, would love that the contacts from both would show on the map.

Any how... that's My .02 cents worth on that... :yep:

As for the absence of replies... this asking wasn't that long ago posted... I wouldn't stress it too much yet... am sure more will respond, as soon as they know this has been asked for an opinion on it. :up:

Signing off for now... :shucks:

M. M.

:Kaleun_Salute:

[propbeanie]

...
As for the absence of replies... this asking wasn't that long ago posted... I wouldn't stress it too much yet...
:arrgh!: not stressin' here bro!... :D - Arlo using that "I'm with you fellers!" gif, set off my use of the "Oh Brother, Where Art Though" video, where at the end of the session, the studio owner bangs on the window and says somethin' to the effect "Y'all com-on in he-ar and sign this here contract, an' I'll pay ya $10 each!" and the George Clooney character replies with "OK sir, but uh, Mert and Aloysius will have to sign Xs, as only four of us can write." Of course, there's only the four of them in the studio... :O: :yeah: - Kind of like my old high school band trying to get pay for our roadies when our contract said "... pay each band member $50..." They did not say "performer", they said "member"... we always considered the guys who helped us load the trucks and set-up / tear-down as part of the band, along with the sound board man and the light man... most folks didn't see it that way though - "say, there's only five guys on stage! why are you asking pay for nine?!?!!" :arrgh!: - anyway, that's the reasoning behind the "How many of your are there?... 'n' only three of yas kinn rite?..." line, not that I was worried about no one replying. :salute:

[Mad Mardigan]

:arrgh!: not stressin' here bro!... :D - Arlo using that "I'm with you fellers!" gif, set off my use of the "Oh Brother, Where Art Though" video, where at the end of the session, the studio owner bangs on the window and says somethin' to the effect "Y'all com-on in he-ar and sign this here contract, an' I'll pay ya $10 each!" and the George Clooney character replies with "OK sir, but uh, Mert and Aloysius will have to sign Xs, as only four of us can write." Of course, there's only the four of them in the studio... :O: :yeah: - Kind of like my old high school band trying to get pay for our roadies when our contract said "... pay each band member $50..." They did not say "performer", they said "member"... we always considered the guys who helped us load the trucks and set-up / tear-down as part of the band, along with the sound board man and the light man... most folks didn't see it that way though - "say, there's only five guys on stage! why are you asking pay for nine?!?!!" :arrgh!: - anyway, that's the reasoning behind the "How many of your are there?... 'n' only three of yas kinn rite?..." line, not that I was worried about no one replying. :salute:

:oops:

My bad... :o *face palms then head bangs desk... :/\\!!*

I blame it on not having had enough Army or Navy mud... take ya pick... :yep:

[propbeanie]

You just need more bluegrass music, that's all!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETVlu5yqFHk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFKX5pzrNL4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABpfjkqtax4


Too many guitars in that last one... lol

[Mad Mardigan]

:haha: :har: :haha: :up:

I do happen to enjoy bluegrass music... but not sure how that'd help, other than provide enjoyable music to listen to... :D

M. M.

:Kaleun_Salute:

[Comder]

Good Evening Gentlemen,
Long day. I would go with the options 2 & 3. This would give the option to the player how they would do their setups.




Thanks


Comder

[propbeanie]

I am having trouble getting the Observation Periscope to upgrade, in spite of several attempts at UpgradePacks, Slots, cussing, editing and more cussing... I thought I had it licked with doing the periscope change with the conning tower change, but that messes with other aspects of the game, such as failures of base changes to go into effect, but yet being unable to dock at the old home port... I need a bigger hammer... :roll:

[KaleunMarco]

I am having trouble getting the Observation Periscope to upgrade, in spite of several attempts at UpgradePacks, Slots, cussing, editing and more cussing... I thought I had it licked with doing the periscope change with the conning tower change, but that messes with other aspects of the game, such as failures of base changes to go into effect, but yet being unable to dock at the old home port... I need a bigger hammer... :roll:

https://i.ibb.co/ngRY2Sd/download.jpg

[Mad Mardigan]

100 lb sledge hammer...

http://snipboard.io/ofn0CW.jpg

:Kaleun_Wink:

M. M. :D

:Kaleun_Salute:

[Moonlight]

I'm a bit late to the discussion here so I'll keep it short, option 4 sounds like the easiest option for me, rip it out root and stem and be done with it.
I'm sure Mr beanie has already discussed this alternative with his fellow modders but I was wondering if he could make an addon mod where option 4 can be used by players who don't want or need that modern ST technology thing.
Damn it, I could even give him some high marks out of 10 for catering to all players as well, would 5\10 be too high Mr beanie, I don't want you to get too big headed as your better half could start whacking you round the head with her rolling pin, I'll leave it with you and your team mates to discuss this option again, and please Mr beanie, make the right decision. :O:

[propbeanie]

I'm a bit late to the discussion here so I'll keep it short, option 4 sounds like the easiest option for me, rip it out root and stem and be done with it.
I'm sure Mr beanie has already discussed this alternative with his fellow modders but I was wondering if he could make an addon mod where option 4 can be used by players who don't want or need that modern ST technology thing.
Damn it, I could even give him some high marks out of 10 for catering to all players as well, would 5\10 be too high Mr beanie, I don't want you to get too big headed as your better half could start whacking you round the head with her rolling pin, I'll leave it with you and your team mates to discuss this option again, and please Mr beanie, make the right decision. :O:
My thoughts also, Mr Moonlight, especially after a couple more tries last night, and another this morning. We can get ST functioning just fine, so long as it is a new start after Jan '45 - but the game does not like a periscope "upgrade" to the ST shaft and head, whether using individual parts for the upgrade, or as a combination package. I already have the strategy for the implementation of no ST, except on the Tench, which doesn't start until 1945, and will come with ST active, whether an early issue from upgrade, or normal cycle. These attempts at functional ST upgrades has driven us to distraction, putting SpecOps and everything else on hold while we have banged our collective heads against the wall :damn: and forced the natural human aging process early upon our noggins and their contents... :roll: - We'll continue to attempt to work on it later and maybe beat it into submission, in case there is some other combination of settings we haven't tried yet, but for now, the ST is pre-ordained to be dead upon arrival next release, and we are on to other aspects of the mod once again. This is to eliminate an Observation Periscope failure (which it surprises me no one has reported encountering that issue), nor an inactive SJ, or weird combination of functionality of the SJ / ST combo. :salute:

[Mad Mardigan]

My thoughts also, Mr Moonlight, especially after a couple more tries last night, and another this morning. We can get ST functioning just fine, so long as it is a new start after Jan '45 - but the game does not like a periscope "upgrade" to the ST shaft and head, whether using individual parts for the upgrade, or as a combination package. I already have the strategy for the implementation of no ST, except on the Tench, which doesn't start until 1945, and will come with ST active, whether an early issue from upgrade, or normal cycle. These attempts at functional ST upgrades has driven us to distraction, putting SpecOps and everything else on hold while we have banged our collective heads against the wall :damn: and forced the natural human aging process early upon our noggins and their contents... :roll: - We'll continue to attempt to work on it later and maybe beat it into submission, in case there is some other combination of settings we haven't tried yet, but for now, the ST is pre-ordained to be dead upon arrival next release, and we are on to other aspects of the mod once again. This is to eliminate an Observation Periscope failure (which it surprises me no one has reported encountering that issue), nor an inactive SJ, or weird combination of functionality of the SJ / ST combo. :salute:

I for 1, do want to say I appreciate your efforts to keep it in, but.. agree with the general assessment. Set the ST to the side for now... with the hopes of figuring out the issue with getting it to work... at a later date, if possible. :yep:


Stick a fork in it.. & call it done, for now.
http://snipboard.io/JUhDnE.jpg

[Torpex77]

OK folks - the game does not like changing the Observation periscope, but we do have a way around the issue, sort-of... but first some questions about this:
Option 1: Keep it as-is. I like it when the Observation Periscope fails on 1st Jan 1945

Option 2: Make a cloned conn "upgrade" that might add the new ST Periscope, and then allow an add-on ST Radar that displays on the NavMap only (you do have to 'qualify' for a new conn).

Option 3: Make a cloned conn "upgrade" for the boat (as in #2) and the ST Periscope, and then an UpgradePack for the ST that will eliminate the SJ antenna, but allows PPI and NavMap display (better for MapContacts "Off" people).

Option 4: Disable the ST across all boats except the Tench
As it stands in the current, and all previous versions of FotRSU, if you do a new start after 01 January, 1945, you will have ST Radar, but will lose the SJ antenna displaying on the boat, which looks weird to me, but you do have a functional SJ and ST radar that displays on the PPI and NavMap (if Map Contacts are "On"). However, if you are on patrol 31 December, 1944 to 01 January, 1945, with an existing boat that is eligible for ST Radar, the game's attempt to "Upgrade" your Observation (Night) Periscope to the ST Radar version, it will fail, and then the Observation Periscope ceases to function. Now, we could "pretend" that the motor failed on it, or a lift cable broke, or whatever, but there is no indication of a failure, other than you cannot go to the station. In some cases, the periscope will be unusable for the remainder of that career.

The first "fix" we came up with, making the ST Radar an "Add-on" instead of an upgrade, allows the SJ radar to remain on the boat, but you do have a somewhat functioning ST Radar when you raise the Observation Periscope - if we could get the ST Periscope to install - but the "display" for any radar blip indications are only on the NavMap, and will NOT display on the PPI station. This makes it basically unusable for those with NavMap contacts turned "Off"... the "key" to this functioning though, is getting the Observation Periscope to change to the ST Radar Periscope - which it will NOT DO, even in an "UpgradePack". Alternatively, we could make the ST Radar an upgrade, and then you will see the display on the PPI screen. However, since the game will only allow one and only one Surface Radar Antenna, the ST antenna will "kill" the SJ antenna, which will no longer display on the conn. How important is that to folks?

A "tested" version with a conning tower change does indeed allow a change of the Periscope shaft and head, which then allows a proper application of either an ST "add-on" (no PPI, but does display on the NavMap) or as an "upgrade" (displays on the PPI, but eliminates the SJ antenna).

So, how important is it to the users to "see" that SJ antenna, or how important is it to have it display on the NavMap only, or how important is the ST to you anyway? It did not make it to very many boats prior to the end of the war... Thanks :salute:

Well, apparently, a person cannot edit a "Poll" after a post goes "live" (5 minutes) oh well...

Option 2: Make a cloned conn "upgrade" that might add the new ST Periscope, and then allow an add-on ST Radar that displays on the NavMap only (you do have to 'qualify' for a new conn). :up:

Many do not understand that the CO had a Tracking Team that calculated the firing solution (An Officer and assistant), and there was a TDC Operator who (if skills were good) could get a gnats ass solution following the CO's Observations. (Didnt anyone ever watch "Run Silent Run Deep?) :haha:

So the Idea that its "Realistic" for a CO to do the observations, TDC and Plot a Solution is Absurd. Read Thunder Below, or any Number of WWII Patrol Books and its actually more realistic for the Simulation to man the Plot & TDC for us. :D

[Arlo]

(Didnt anyone ever watch "Run Silent Run Deep?)

So the Idea that its "Realistic" for a CO to do the observations, TDC and Plot a Solution is Absurd. Read Thunder Below, or any Number of WWII Patrol Books and its actually more realistic for the Simulation to man the Plot & TDC for us. :D

Or Torpedo Run. :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba_qh6dbtAM

[propbeanie]

Just to let you all know, but for now, it is option Number Four... The Tench will have ST because it starts after the periscope is on the boat, so therefore it will function. However, there will not be an SJ antenna on the boat, since the game does not allow "window dressing" of that type... you can only have one surface radar antenna.

There are still other ways to attempt to attack this hill of a problem, but for now, it is the "upgrade" (rather, failure to upgrade) of the ST Periscope that kills any and all attempts at functioning ST radar in an ongoing career. Even when forcing the periscope on a new conning tower, the shaft would fail to "upgrade" and then the game did not like that, and resulted in crashes or odd behaviors, which may as well have been a crash. It's kind of like Hotel California, in that we've stabbed it with our steely knives, but can't quite kill the beast... sigh :wah:

[Mad Mardigan]

Just to let you all know, but for now, it is option Number Four... The Tench will have ST because it starts after the periscope is on the boat, so therefore it will function. However, there will not be an SJ antenna on the boat, since the game does not allow "window dressing" of that type... you can only have one surface radar antenna.

There are still other ways to attempt to attack this hill of a problem, but for now, it is the "upgrade" (rather, failure to upgrade) of the ST Periscope that kills any and all attempts at functioning ST radar in an ongoing career. Even when forcing the periscope on a new conning tower, the shaft would fail to "upgrade" and then the game did not like that, and resulted in crashes or odd behaviors, which may as well have been a crash. It's kind of like Hotel California, in that we've stabbed it with our steely knives, but can't quite kill the beast... sigh :wah:

For 1, propbeanie... know that your (&s7rikeback's efforts, as well as any other subsimmer assisting) is appreciated.

At best, for now... will have to roll with just the Tench (if the rest of us manage to survive getting to the Tench, that is...that go by dead-is-dead principle :yep:) is the only 1 to have that radar & it doesn't include the SJ set.

Thanks for taking a crack at it, but... for now, set aside & go with the work that can be done. :yep:

Is always the opportunity to take another crack at that nut...

Again, thanks to all working on FotRS-U to improve it. It is appreciated, from this ol' salty dawg. :salute: :yeah:

M. M.

:Kaleun_Salute:

[propbeanie]

The SJ will function as intended on the Tench, you just won't see the antenna spinning round and round is all... The antenna is in the ST Periscope.

[Mad Mardigan]

The SJ will function as intended on the Tench, you just won't see the antenna spinning round and round is all... The antenna is in the ST Periscope.

Ahh.. ok.. :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

I mis understood that, then. :k_confused: :oops:

M. M.

:Kaleun_Salute: