Looking for a 3D guru

[Sledgehammer427]

Hello my fellow modders, long time no see!
(now all I can think of is that one clip of Steve Buscemi carrying a skateboard going "hello my fellow youth," gods I feel old around here sometimes)

anyway. As has happened in my time of building new 3D models for SH4 ships in my modeling programs, I have run into the classic channel snag, where the model is only one texture channel and the AO map is present and unwrapped, but the model shows up in-game with no textures. The model is complete and works great in game, the textures show up in S3D, but alas. I know this can be fairly quickly fixed by someone more competent than I as I've exhausted my options trying to do it between Misfit Model 3D (my main program) and Blender (which I used to perform exorcisms make fine adjustments to the model)
In any case, if anyone would be willing to help me with this simple fix, you too can enjoy the updated mod I am working on once its complete. I'm sure most of you would like it ;)

[JapLance]

Hi Sledgehammer427,

first thing to check: does the file for the ship in the roster include the path to the textures?

[Texture 1]
TextureName=data/Sea/NBB_Yamato/NBB_Yamato_T01.tga
LightmapTextureName=data/Sea/NBB_Yamato/NBB_Yamato_O01.tga
NormalmapTextureName=data/Sea/NBB_Yamato/NBB_Yamato_N01.tga
StartDate=19140101
EndDate=19451231
Frequency=1

[Sledgehammer427]

Hi Sledgehammer427,

first thing to check: does the file for the ship in the roster include the path to the textures?

[Texture 1]
TextureName=data/Sea/NBB_Yamato/NBB_Yamato_T01.tga
LightmapTextureName=data/Sea/NBB_Yamato/NBB_Yamato_O01.tga
NormalmapTextureName=data/Sea/NBB_Yamato/NBB_Yamato_N01.tga
StartDate=19140101
EndDate=19451231
Frequency=1

I perhaps should have mentioned that this is a playable submarine :oops:
I've had this issue crop up before, and really all it takes is someone with a more comprehensive program (and not bouncing between two) to adjust the channels and it should be right as rain.

[JapLance]

As far as I know, playable submarines work the same way as AI ships.

In the Roster section the .cfg file needs to point to the textures. If your model has only one channel, the second line (LightmapTextureName, playable subs don't have a third one) needs to be invalidated (adding a ; in front).

[propbeanie]

The conning tower is the culprit... images linked to the Textures folder. We have tried multiple "hammers", each one bigger than the other, in an effort to get things to bend to our wills, to no avail thus far... lol :arrgh!:

[Sledgehammer427]

As far as I know, playable submarines work the same way as AI ships.

In the Roster section the .cfg file needs to point to the textures. If your model has only one channel, the second line (LightmapTextureName, playable subs don't have a third one) needs to be invalidated (adding a ; in front).

I tried that, hung on the splash screen loading saying it couldn't locate the texture file :hmmm:

The conning tower is the culprit... images linked to the Textures folder. We have tried multiple "hammers", each one bigger than the other, in an effort to get things to bend to our wills, to no avail thus far... lol :arrgh!:

really?! I wonder how that works... I know in the past I've built models that were all black because I didn't have a texture (specifically, an AO map texture) channel present and my multiple attempts to force it through Misfit Model 3D or Blender was met with....the channel still not being present :doh:

[propbeanie]

In the "texture" nodes for the conn and its various parts. I tried using just one texture, linked several different ways, and the result is always the same. The best I can get is texture applied to the "light" side, while the "shadow" side is absolutely skinless. Looking at the sail in Blender, it does seem to have a bit of an issue with "faces", but I have no clue how to fix, much less describe what it looks like... all things 3D, for me, may as well be "InfinityD" for all I understand. :roll: :D :salute:

[yubba]

Where is a 3d editor that isn't a pain in the butt to download and install I got lucky reworking the PT 109,, there was alittle more I wanted to do ,,I lost my game box

[iambecomelife]

Where is a 3d editor that isn't a pain in the butt to download and install I got lucky reworking the PT 109,, there was alittle more I wanted to do ,,I lost my game box

I use wings3d....free and simple. It took me about 2 years to get comfortable doing ships with that program, and I am a slow learner ... many people have said it is an easy program to learn. The downside is that it is not as versatile as other programs.

To Sledgehammer427, have you given all 3d sub-components a Unified Render Controller? I noticed that without a unified render controller, some of my new ships have incorrect colors or no colors at all.

[Sledgehammer427]

I use wings3d....free and simple. It took me about 2 years to get comfortable doing ships with that program, and I am a slow learner ... many people have said it is an easy program to learn. The downside is that it is not as versatile as other programs.

To Sledgehammer427, have you given all 3d sub-components a Unified Render Controller? I noticed that without a unified render controller, some of my new ships have incorrect colors or no colors at all.

honestly I don't have much experience with URCs in S3D or otherwise. Typically I'm halfway decent at building models and someone else goes and finishes it for me against my will, and, being as far gone as I have been from modding SH4 over the last few years, I'm so out of practice I should be put in a nursing home :P

[Jeff-Groves]

You need to provide a link to download your work if you want a fix.
:03:

[propbeanie]

We've got a link Jeff... look for a PM and NDA... :har:

[Sledgehammer427]

Mod in question is for the version of FOTRS that was out around July last year, just a heads up that there may need to be some tweaking to get her to work in the most current version :doh:

[Jeff-Groves]

Got the files.
:up:

[Jeff-Groves]

We have tried multiple "hammers", each one bigger than the other, in an effort to get things to bend to our wills, to no avail thus far... lol :arrgh!:

Sometimes a "hammer" don't work!
:haha:

Time for the "Old Voodoo Magic". Anyone got a chicken to donate?
:har:

[Jeff-Groves]

Being it is a secondary UV channel issue?

Would it help others if I explain how to address the problem?
:hmmm:

Like how I do it and what FREE programs one can use?

[Sledgehammer427]

Sometimes a "hammer" don't work!
:haha:


Rarely for free ;)

[s7rikeback]

Being it is a secondary UV channel issue?

Would it help others if I explain how to address the problem?
:hmmm:

Like how I do it and what FREE programs one can use?
pen & Pencil at the ready... :salute:

Can i sit at the back of the class sir ?

[propbeanie]

Can I bring my cell phone, and record video?...

[Jeff-Groves]

I'll be using several FREE programs to do the work of creating a nice secondary UV channel for the AO.

I also use a couple other programs I bought. I'll list everything and provide links and why I bought those.

1st program I use is an Oldie but goody!
Pack3D! Why Pack3D? I don't want to spend the time to export each object 1 at a time! That is the Major problem I have with S3D. No mass export feature.

Since I only need the main channel Pack3D is the fastest tool to use.
If you need a link? I can upload the program. It is a Java program.

Now I do use S3D at times. Such as quick viewing of the files I'm working with and for the final import of all the objects.

Now. I'll need to export the 3D objects for ANY other parts that may be in other files! Can't get a proper AO burn if your missing Gun mounts, or in the case of a Submarine, the Turm.
:hmmm:
That would be the Conning Tower for you Pacific Guys.
:haha:

[Jeff-Groves]

I look at the cfg, eqp, and sns files to see what extra objects I need.
Once all the 3D objects are exported and placed in a single folder?
The hard part starts!

We have to build the Unit just as We see it in Game or in S3D.
Use any 3D program to import the hull of a ship then the propellers to see what I am talking about!
:o

We have to move things into the proper positions!
That means We need to adjust the XYZ and in some cases the rotations of an object!

It is tedious work but has to be done! So here is where a program I bought comes into play!
I use 3D Object Converter. It's $50.00 for a LifeTime license and all upgrades are FREE for life! That's a good deal!
http://3doc.i3dconverter.com/

I use the Geometry Transformation feature it has! That allows changing the XYZ and rotations!
Where do we get that information? Open the dat with S3D and select say a propeller.
You'll see the XYZ and rotation listed! Pretty slick eh?

I always wondered WHY no one wrote an exporter that does that transformation on export.
Then have an import that discards it.
Oh well.


I'll do a mass import of some parts and post an image so you can see the offsets AS EXPORTED with Pack3D.
See the problem with the placement of a propeller?
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1069&pictureid=11996

Now you can adjust positions with other programs I'm sure so you may not want to pay money.
That's up to you. I also have scripts for 010 that do the same thing. But again. You need to buy that.
I do have a script for 010 that does take in the offsets and exports the objects but I've never finished it.

Here's the Transitional Information as viewed in S3D of that propeller.
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1069&pictureid=11997

Should you need an explanation of WHY SH3 and SH4 do it this way? I can explain all that.
Don't think it's necessary at this point but I know the work flow and the how and why.

[propbeanie]

Thank you, good sir! Looking forward to the next class! :salute:

[Sledgehammer427]

See the problem with the placement of a propeller?
:o
I swear it didn't look that messy when I set it up

[Jeff-Groves]

That image is all the parts exported from the dat with Pack3D, then imported into 3D Max with a batch import script.

It's not how it looks in S3D.

Import the hull then a propeller into Misfit or Blender and you'll get a better idea of what I'm talking about.

Here's a little trick I use to get a list of all the 3D file names I've exported into a text file.
Create a new txt file in the folder with all the 3D objects.
Rename it to Names.bat and save.
Right click and edit it.
Paste the below into the file and save.

dir /a-d /b > list.txt


Now double click it. You'll see a new file appear that makes it much easier to do future work with.

For an example:
I look at the first object on the list. Find that Node in S3D and get the Translation information.
I can now add that to the list and work my way down the list! Makes future work easier to keep in order in case you need a break!

Here's how I do it. (Note the .obj name has been changed to protect the innocent)
NSS_HULL.obj -0.01 -0.01 -0.5091783

NOTE that translations and rotations ARE important to build a complete model outside of S3D or the game!
Should you skip that information for the base object? ALL other objects will be misplaced!
In this case? Should you move the propellers and NOT move the hull?
The propellers will be off by 5+ METERS in the Z plane! (Recall that .1 in Game is 1 meter)