View Full Version : Afghanistan deadline
Skybird
08-26-21, 03:30 PM
More explosions in a district were Hazara people form a strong population. They are not Pashtun, and Shia. Taleban, which are Pashtun, have committed many atrocities against them, but I think this attack too is committed by the IS Province Koramsha. The IS and the Taleban are enemies, too, since the Taleban are a local Pashtun faction with only regional ambitions, the IS however claims sole representation of all Muslims and thus is internationally oriented, demanding the Taleban's subjugation under their leadership.
The war in Afghanistan is far from over. Only the Western participation with ground troops has come to an end.
There are a couple of smaller militia networks in play, too, many of these without religious ideology as a basis, but criminal profit craving of warlords running them.
Negotiations are being done with the Taleban to pay them for letting people move out after August 31st. The Western diplomats will be ripped off, their position is hilariously weak. Sojmew of the worst Afghan terrorists will be part of the Afghan Taleban government - and these are the people we now pay and negotiate with. And the US military and the Taleban in Kabul suddenly share concerns and interests for establishing shared security. When you think things cannot get any more absurd, they do become right more absurd. :doh:
More Western nations have ended their military operations and evacuations in Kabul. The Bundeswehr planned three flights tomorrow, Friday, for the soldiers exclusively, after the attack the German generla gave order for immediate emergency getout, and all these flights have been conducted early and immediately after the first attacks on Thursday instead. They are comleted and retutrned to taishkent. No more German planes to Afghanistan on Friday - its all over.
Incredible. :nope:
The Taliban seem set in flipping this Win into a Loss on the last play of the game. :doh:
I haven't seen a mis-read of intentions this bad since Saddam tried fronting to the US and NATO.
"Seriously? We were trying to figure out what to do with all of these trained soldiers and hardware from the Cold War. You want us to attack? Well, sure, I guess we could.."
:k_confused:
Will there be more terror attacks before 31th of August ?
This is the deadline where American and other countries troop should have left Kabul and Afghanistan.
No doubt that there will be terror after this day.
Markus
Buddahaid
08-26-21, 05:41 PM
Incredible. :nope:
The Taliban seem set in flipping this Win into a Loss on the last play of the game. :doh:
I haven't seen a mis-read of intentions this bad since Saddam tried fronting to the US and NATO.
"Seriously? We were trying to figure out what to do with all of these trained soldiers and hardware from the Cold War. You want us to attack? Well, sure, I guess we could.."
:k_confused:
It is highly likely it was not the Taliban.
ISIS has taken responsibility for yesterdays attack. In the news here at night
Biden consider to order a strike against ISIS.
Markus
Biden consider to order a strike against ISIS.Don't hold your breath.
ISIS might have pulled the trigger on the suicide bombs but Joe Biden is the one who is directly responsible for our troops getting killed. They are only there now because he flubbed up the withdrawal and had to send them back over there to cover the mess he created. Their blood is on his hands and I say that everyone who voted for him shares a part of that responsibility for putting the Dufus in the oval office just because you didn't like mean tweets.
Buddahaid
08-26-21, 08:11 PM
ISIS might have pulled the trigger on the suicide bombs but Joe Biden is the one who is directly responsible for our troops getting killed. They are only there now because he flubbed up the withdrawal and had to send them back over there to cover the mess he created. Their blood is on his hands and I say that everyone who voted for him shares a part of that responsibility for putting the Dufus in the oval office just because you didn't like mean tweets.
Really? Then Trump gets the honor of being the mastermind behind setting up a fixed deadline without conditions that started the bloody ball rolling.
Mean Tweets signed the deal with the Taliban in the first place. :yep:
That blood is all over Donny's tie.
Still, I feel bad for China. That "the enemy of my enemy" stuff just bit them hard. If ISIS hates the Taliban more than the US, it will only take an extra 200 years or so for that Belt And Road deal to get finished.
:doh:
3catcircus
08-26-21, 08:39 PM
Really? Then Trump gets the honor of being the mastermind behind setting up a fixed deadline without conditions that started the bloody ball rolling.
Mean Tweets signed the deal with the Taliban in the first place. :yep:
That blood is all over Donny's tie.
Still, I feel bad for China. That "the enemy of my enemy" stuff just bit them hard. If ISIS hates the Taliban more than the US, it will only take an extra 200 years or so for that Belt And Road deal to get finished.
:doh:
Trump would have done things in the following order:
1. Evac civilians and Afghan collaborators.
2. Remove our destroy any US war material.
3. Withdraw all troops.
4. Destroy Bagram from the air.
Biden, on the other hand (rather his tard wranglers who are actually in charge) are so detached from reality that closing up shop in the dead of night leaving equipment, civilians, and Afghan collaborators to fend for themselves seemed reasonable, amirite?
Buddahaid
08-26-21, 08:48 PM
Trump would have done things in the following order:
1. Evac civilians and Afghan collaborators.
2. Remove our destroy any US war material.
3. Withdraw all troops.
4. Destroy Bagram from the air.
Biden, on the other hand (rather his tard wranglers who are actually in charge) are so detached from reality that closing up shop in the dead of night leaving equipment, civilians, and Afghan collaborators to fend for themselves seemed reasonable, amirite?
Bullcrap! He would have found the situation equally as hard to deal with and likely have acted like MacArthur and and started firing people in key positions instead of questioning the great masterplan's viability.
@3catcircus: I'm sure you can provide a source for Trump's withdrawal plan.
3catcircus
08-26-21, 09:21 PM
@3catcircus: I'm sure you can provide a source for Trump's withdrawal plan.
I protect my sources...
I protect my sources...
"Q" isn't a "source." :har:
Trump would have done things in the following order:
derp
Trump can't wipe his arse in the right order. :har:
Buddahaid
08-26-21, 09:35 PM
I protect my sources...
Right. That means you have no idea and are just projecting your rose tinted glasses view of your messiah's glorious righteousness.
https://c.tenor.com/N6qZF6o25eAAAAAd/fireworks-fail.gif
Otto Harkaman
08-26-21, 09:56 PM
Nowhere to hide, Joe: President adopts fetal position pose as he crumbles under questioning from Fox News reporter Peter Doocy and tries to blame Trump for the catastrophe in Afghanistan
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/08/27/03/47150159-9931085-President_Joe_Biden_bowed_his_head_as_he_listened_ to_a_question_-a-6_1630032523194.jpg
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9931085/Joe-Biden-tense-forth-interesting-guy-Steve-Doocy-Fox-News.html
Nowhere to hide, Joe: President adopts fetal position pose as he crumbles under questioning from Fox News reporter Peter Doocy and tries to blame Trump for the catastrophe in Afghanistan
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/08/27/03/47150159-9931085-President_Joe_Biden_bowed_his_head_as_he_listened_ to_a_question_-a-6_1630032523194.jpg
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9931085/Joe-Biden-tense-forth-interesting-guy-Steve-Doocy-Fox-News.html
And there you are folks. Bizarre interpretation. The hallmark of the desperately delusional. (It undercuts any true criticism, ya know. Wait, you don't.) :yeah:
Buddahaid
08-26-21, 10:29 PM
Trump's empathy...
https://www.thenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/trump-sad-getty-img.jpg
See? We can all play the image meme game and it means nothing.
Otto Harkaman
08-26-21, 10:36 PM
:rotfl2:not my interpretation, obviously you smart guys didn't click the link to the Dailymail article. It was the headline to the article, you should read.
Buddahaid
08-26-21, 10:51 PM
:rotfl2:not my interpretation, obviously you smart guys didn't click the link to the Dailymail article. It was the headline to the article, you should read.
No I didn't. Just the name Dailymail puts me off.... :Kaleun_Salute::haha:
Trump can't wipe his arse in the right order. :har:
And Biden cant find his with both hands and a mirror.
Skybird
08-27-21, 04:21 AM
Trump would have done things in the following order:
1. Evac civilians and Afghan collaborators.
2. Remove our destroy any US war material.
3. Withdraw all troops.
4. Destroy Bagram from the air.
The Donald was the one who started negotiations with the Taleban and some of their leaders who had kidnapped and assassinated more Americans in the Pakistani-Afghan border region and Afghanistan than anyone else, and he accpeted unconditionell withdrawel without any concessions by the Taleban and allowed them to not give any guarantees and concessions of any kind and he accepted the withdrawel to be completed already in May this year.
The Taleban gave nothing, not one tiny titsy bit. And the Donald swallowed it. He rewarded murderers, kidnappers and terrorists.
-----
Now here is how it should have been done instead:
In the second half of the warm season, when all the crazy kids rub themselves against their Kalashnikovs and eye an opportunity to go to war against some tribe again, silent evacuations of local helpers and their families are started, without media attention. This lasts for several months to get out as many as possible withgoiut raising a prominent radar profile. When the cold season starts, the angry-eyed Kalashinkov-holders tend to return to their villages and caves, and put their rifles aside for a while. Winter is no fighting season in afghanistan, summer is. This is when the US should have temporarily massified air assets for and around Afghanistanistan: drones, bombers, anything, Western nations should have started to blitz down on the remaining few evacuations without big announcement and create facts on the ground (to hell with the Kabul government), and the US brutally open tells the Taleban: we use all airfields availabe in the country in the comign days and if you get into our way and start messing around (mind you, they need to come together first because they are in their winter caves), we shoot and bomb the smelly stuff out of everythign that moves and when the dust settles we bopmb it again, just for fun. Total overkill. Then every Western nations quickly pick up the remaining troops on the ground, fly them out, and done it is.
I'm all for pulling out. But not in the at the same time cyncial and weak way in which Biden has done it.
But the Donald would have done better? No. He only would have used much more gift wrapper to hide the mess better from the American public and sell an onconditionel surrender and sneaking away with pinched tail, whimpering, as a triumph of Donaldinian "deal making". Trump's agreement with the Taleban was no deal. It was a dictate by the Taleban and he accepted it without getting them to give anything. Like so often in his life, the big deal maker again stands there with dropped pants and empty hands and boasts with meaningless words.
Biden, as I said, is a mix of cynism, and whimpering. The case is just and good and fair. The execution is a desaster. And one could have known it in avdance. Getting out: yes, absolutely. In this way? No.
https://i.imgur.com/qfzDdrX.jpg
Skybird
08-27-21, 06:04 AM
^ Yes, that also is true, and it is often overlooked in these debates: that over 100 thousand Afghans have been evacuated by all participating nations. I'm guilty, too, of not pointing that out with the respect that this fact deserves. I promise betterment.
Its not as if nobody got out.
However, also tens of thousands eligible for evacuation, are left behind. But the attention between both numbers should be better balanced.
Skybird
08-27-21, 09:31 AM
A very different view.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/ex-bundeswehr-oberst-schmaeht-afghanische-ortskraefte-innerlich-verachten-uns-diese-menschen/27556252.html
Fact is that amongst failed integrations, Afghans are a prominent majority, and that Afghans living in germany more often fail to become socially independent and to get jobs and work than other migrant groups. Afghans also are represented strongly in crime and organised crime: in Germany, in Europe, in countries where they form strong communities (Germany hosts one of the biggest if not the biggest Afghan exile community in Europe).
Every medal has two sides.
Rockstar
08-27-21, 10:42 AM
https://youtu.be/S84bntUzY1U
Instead of pointing fingers at each other, you should work together and solve the problem in an agreement.
Things like
If my President was in charge then...
No this president has.....
Does not solve anything.
Markus
In 20 years from now Afghanistan, Pakistan and Turkmenistan will become one country under the Taliban.
Markus
Jimbuna
08-27-21, 12:17 PM
Two British nationals, and the child of another British national, died in the explosion at Kabul airport, the foreign secretary has said.
Dominic Raab said two others were also injured in the suicide bomb attack on Thursday.
"It is a tragedy that as they sought to bring their loved ones to safety in the UK they were murdered by cowardly terrorists," he said.
At least 95 people were killed in the attack.
Mr Raab said he was "deeply saddened" by the deaths.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58360592
Jimbuna
08-27-21, 12:20 PM
US-led evacuations from Kabul airport in Afghanistan enter final stage, following a devastating bomb attack.
The Pentagon corrects its assessment to say there was one suicide bomb attack at the airport on Thursday, not two separate blasts.
The attack targeted people queuing to flee the country after Taliban militants returned to power.
Ninety people have been killed - mostly Afghan civilians and 13 US military personnel.
US President Joe Biden has promised to hunt down the perpetrators, jihadist group IS-K
The UK says it is entering the final stages of its evacuation, with 1,000 leaving today.
The evacuations - and foreign troop withdrawals - are designed to be completed by 31 August - a deadline agreed with the Taliban.
The White House says more than 111,000 people have been evacuated since the airlift began nearly two weeks ago.
Skybird
08-27-21, 01:45 PM
The germans say that according to their lists with people eligible to get evacuated to Germany, there are still 10000 Afghans and 300 German nationals in Afghanistan who did not make it. However,lk eligible accoridng to Germn urewucracy and policy are oly Afghans who worked for the Bundeswehr in the past recent years, 2 or 5 years. Those who have worked for the Germans before that timeframe, are not eligble to get to Germany.
Considering the other nations, and the much bigger troop contingents and activities of the Americans, I wonder about how many peopel al in all have cooperated in total with the Western forces in recent two decades? Millions...?
In other words I wonder whether all names on these lists are indeed just local staff. It seems to me these name losts have been pretty much beefed up by many others, too. But if civil rights and the woprstening of their situation shall be the criterion, we can practically evacuate the whole country and move the complete population.
The last german soldiers are all back from Tashkent, they have landed in German airbase Wunsdorf just hours ago.
Maybe it's an evil thought
People from Afghanistan who obtained a residence permit due to death threat if they are send back to their country. Can not visit their homecountry. If they do as we are witness to now(Danish and Swedish cases)Then they should not have permission to return.
They have lied to the Danish and Swedish authorities.
Edit
Biden promise to revenge this terrible terror attack at the airport in Kabul. At first I was thinking on a military strike somewhere where ISIS has it's stronghold. Then I came to think of this Israelis cover operation after the Olympic 1972. In this operation they hunted down these terrorist and...wiped them out. Could Biden do the same ? Give such an order..to hunt down the terrorist behind it.
End edit
Markus
em2nought
08-27-21, 06:26 PM
The Pineapple Express :up:
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/us-special-operations-vets-carry-090023869.html
Cyborg322
08-27-21, 08:06 PM
Maybe it's an evil thought
People from Afghanistan who obtained a residence permit due to death threat if they are send back to their country. Can not visit their homecountry. If they do as we are witness to now(Danish and Swedish cases)Then they should not have permission to return.
They have lied to the Danish and Swedish authorities.
Edit
Biden promise to revenge this terrible terror attack at the airport in Kabul. At first I was thinking on a military strike somewhere where ISIS has it's stronghold. Then I came to think of this Israelis cover operation after the Olympic 1972. In this operation they hunted down these terrorist and...wiped them out. Could Biden do the same ? Give such an order..to hunt down the terrorist behind it.
End edit
Markus
The indication from Biden is airstrikes maybe drones not boots on the ground if that what you mean he could not afford the political fallout from that. Its going to be a minimal risk operation I guess.
Simon
Skybird
08-27-21, 08:12 PM
https://youtu.be/S84bntUzY1U
Crazy. Though not really first time heard of.
Skybird
08-28-21, 05:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8jR09wsqIE
"Win in Afghanistan?" Peter Scholl-Latour, an icon and correspondent legend in Germany and by far the most competent commentator, connoisseur and most experienced traveler and adventurer that the German media and correspondent scene had to offer, i still have some of his books on my shelves. He also motivated me to go on my "expeditions" in the nineties, I owe him thanks for - so tpo speak - giving me a kick in the butt by his example, overcoming my great respect and fear for the big wide world and getting on my socks to get some distance-covering done. If you listen to 99% of comedians today who think they have to add their background noise to the general news situation, you can only laugh. He started out as a soldier in World War II, then continued for short time on this path in the French Foreign Legion, so a tough dog he was, until high age, next he was a war correspondent in the Hueys in Vietnam, embedded himself voluntarily in the Americna front troops at a time when the term "media embedding" was not even thought of, was a guest and prisoner of the Viet Cong for a while, and up to his death made his rounds around the Middle East and the Africa region, back and forth, over and over again. If there was a German-speaking mind in modern times who really knew the Middle East inside out and had no illusions about the stupidity of Westerners - and Americans - in this regard, it was him. He scourged their stupidity mercilessly as what it was, and spared no predictions of severe consequences and outcomes. He was also right about Afghanistan.
And that already 20 years ago.
He gave this lecture when he received a Mercator professorship. Even if you understand German, it will unfortunately be difficult for you here, because he was a notorious mumbler of Grönemeyer's dimensions. :) He just never got his teeth apart.:D
3catcircus
08-28-21, 07:24 AM
The Pineapple Express :up:
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/us-special-operations-vets-carry-090023869.html
The fact that private citizens have to enact rescue missions is damning proof that the Biden administration and their woke JCS need to all be fired.
The Office of Naval Intelligence put out a memo warning that service members, civilian employees, and retirees aren't allowed to bad-mouth those in charge (which apparently ONI didn't care about when retired generals and admirals were bad-mouthing Trump...)
The Sgt Maj of the US Army put out a time deaf tweet about how diversity made the army more lethal - as bombs were exploding in Kabul.
*Some* of us understand our oath is to the constitution and the resultant protection of our citizenry, not the people in charge of the government. At this point, the entire Biden admin and the JCS should be considered part of the "...all enemies, foreign or domestic..." portion of the oath - with resultant firings, impeachments, and convictions.
3catcircus
08-28-21, 07:26 AM
The indication from Biden is airstrikes maybe drones not boots on the ground if that what you mean he could not afford the political fallout from that. Its going to be a minimal risk operation I guess.
Simon
Minimal risk for whom?
Biden will lob a few rockets from drones into empty mountain caves and claim success.
Skybird
08-28-21, 07:47 AM
Biden is by no way alone responsible for the current messy outcome. All US administrations of the past 20 years have contributed their share to the mess. And that explcitly incldues the Donald. If things would have gone his way and "deal":har: , it would have become even worse and more hasty.
This man
https://www.stripes.com/branches/marine_corps/2021-08-27/marine-battalion-commander-demands-accountability-commandant-senior-leaders-2684882.html
wants to hold them all accountable. He got fired. That was to be expected, as meanwhile he has said himself, chain of command and all that. Still, it leaves a foul taste.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/27/us-marines-stuart-scheller-video
I normally agree with that the military has to obey potlicla command. But this can go too far, as Germany has learned the hard way 80 years ago. What if the own political system and its "elites" have become rotten and criminal and treacherous to rules and laws and the interest of the people? In the third Reich the military leadership too thought in terms of loyalty, chain of command, Prussian sense of duty. And by that it drove itself deep, deep into the grounds of evil. We have a German word that is hard to translate into English, it is "Kadavergehorsam". It merans a sroing sense of obedience that is so axaggerated that it even follows commands if these lead for absolkutely stupid, hilarious reasons to self destruction.
What if the buggets enemy of one own's people - is ones own leaders and the laws they released to protect their powerplays? I say this condition is to be diagnosed in practically every nation in the Western world, and most other nations outside the West, too.
All the political skunks are still there, if they have not died from age. They are wading in blood and would have thousands and thousands of lives on their conscience - if they would have a conscience. On the other side of the fence, the leaders of the "others": the same.
Lock them all into a hall, give everbody a knife, and do not open the door again until its over, then go in and shoot the last survivor standing.
3catcircus
08-28-21, 08:16 AM
Biden is by no way alone responsible for the current messy outcome. All US administrations of the past 20 years have contributed their share to the mess. And that explcitly incldues the Donald. If things would have gone his way and "deal":har: , it would have become even worse and more hasty.
This man
https://www.stripes.com/branches/marine_corps/2021-08-27/marine-battalion-commander-demands-accountability-commandant-senior-leaders-2684882.html
wants to hold them all accountable. He got fired. That was to be expected, as meanwhile he has said himself, chain of command and all that. Still, it leaves a foul taste.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/27/us-marines-stuart-scheller-video
I normally agree with that the military has to obey potlicla command. But this can go too far, as Germany has learned the hard way 80 years ago. What if the own political system and its "elites" have become rotten and criminal and treacherous to rules and laws and the interest of the people? In the third Reich the military leadership too thought in terms of loyalty, chain of command, Prussian sense of duty. And by that it drove itself deep, deep into the grounds of evil. We have a German word that is hard to translate into English, it is "Kadavergehorsam". It merans a sroing sense of obedience that is so axaggerated that it even follows commands if these lead for absolkutely stupid, hilarious reasons to self destruction.
What if the buggets enemy of one own's people - is ones own leaders and the laws they released to protect their powerplays? I say this condition is to be diagnosed in practically every nation in the Western world, and most other nations outside the West, too.
All the political skunks are still there, if they have not died from age. They are wading in blood and would have thousands and thousands of lives on their conscience - if they would have a conscience. On the other side of the fence, the leaders of the "others": the same.
Lock them all into a hall, give everbody a knife, and do not open the door again until its over, then go in and shoot the last survivor standing.
No one is arguing that all admins since 2001 were involved in them being there. That's a different issue. The lunacy of trying to train illiterate goatherders to use technologically-advanced weaponry and promote wokeness bullsh!t amongst them was doomed from the start, as was thinking tribalism could be ignored when they have no national loyalty as part of their culture.
We're enraged that the Biden administration chose to not immediately start pulling them out upon taking office while Taliban was still wintered-over and instead choosing to seek the the "photo op" by deciding Sep 11 was the day.
We're enraged that they chose to not keep Bagram, not because it wasn't of importance, but because they wanted to secure the embassy while reducing troop levels.
We're enraged that they chose to reduce troop levels *before* evacuating civilians and Afghan collaborators and before destroying or shipping home surplus military equipment, leaving them to fend off the Taliban - in the middle of fighting season, who now have access to abandoned hardware ("I Got a case of US M-4s. Never been fired, only been dropped once.")
The Biden administration are all ivory-tower types who've never gotten their hands dirty and have zero understanding of real-world applied human psychology.
We're enraged
We're enraged
We're enraged
I understand that employing the term 'We're' is designed to add weight to the statement 'You're' (even if there are others who might feel a degree of said rage). Rage was part of the problem from the beginning. Frustration may be a more realistic term. Pretending that anyone other than Biden would have turned a clusterfook into something other than such is a delusion. Pretending his predecessor could have is even more so. So deal with the rage and frustration as best you know how since you don't really have anything productive you can offer, otherwise. :up:
Skybird
08-28-21, 08:36 AM
With that Biden has seriously messed up the "How" I certainly can agree. I said so repeatedly.
In parts thats also heritage from the Donald. Because true is that Biden bases on a "deal" made by the Donald, and the Donald had a timetable listing May this year, and giving the Taleban evertyhing but getting nothing from them in return.
The only reason why I defend Biden is that it often gets painted as if he is the only one responsible for the outcome of the war. This damn US political polarization thing. The US has become a fully binary state, everythign jst zero or one, black or white, all or nothing at all.
One of my two most favourite quotes from Star Wars:
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes."
3catcircus
08-28-21, 09:00 AM
I understand that employing the term 'We're' is designed to add weight to the statement 'You're' (even if there are others who might feel a degree of said rage). Rage was part of the problem from the beginning. Frustration may be a more realistic term. Pretending that anyone other than Biden would have turned a clusterfook into something other than such is a delusion. Pretending his predecessor could have is even more so. So deal with the rage and frustration as best you know how since you don't really have anything productive you can offer, otherwise. :up:
Projecting your own ineffectually much?
Projecting your own ineffectually much?
Do you think you could rationally illustrate how? :)
3catcircus
08-28-21, 09:06 AM
With that Biden has seriously messed up the "How" I certainly can agree. I said so repeatedly.
In parts thats also heritage from the Donald. Because true is that Biden bases on a "deal" made by the Donald, and the Donald had a timetable listing May this year, and giving the Taleban evertyhing but getting nothing from them in return.
The only reason why I defend Biden is that it often gets painted as if he is the only one responsible for the outcome of the war. This damn US political polarization thing. The US has become a fully binary state, everythign jst zero or one, black or white, all or nothing at all.
One of my two most favourite quotes from Star Wars:
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes."
The differences are that Biden didn't hold them to that May timeline (before the start of fighting season) and he is unable to carry through with any form of violence in response to any failure on the part of the Taliban to adhere to the agreed conditions. Everyone knows that the moment the Taliban violated the terms, Trump would have sent a bunch of them to the grave in response.
*THAT'S* the difference. Whether you like him or not, Trump negotiated from a position of strength backed by a willingness to do what is necessary to hold that other party to the terms of whatever agreement is reached or moving on and ending such agreements if the other party remains recalcitrant. He was also willing to demand that *new* terms be negotiated when presented with agreements that are one-sided and that gain the US nothing (NAFTA, Paris Climate, Iran nuclear deal, etc.). Every Dem administration going back to at least Clinton seems to always agree to things that were decidedly not beneficial to the US and it's citizens (but definitely beneficial to them personal finances of Clinton, Biden, Kerry, Obama, etc.) We deserve leaders who are more concerned with the well being off the citizens that are supposed to serve rather than in lining their own pockets.
Biden is a cuckold, even amongst other Dems.
Biden is a cuckold.
You misspelled 'Trump.'
https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/180717133009-03-trump-putin-summit-0716-opinion-medium-plus-169.jpg
Buddahaid
08-28-21, 09:19 AM
The differences are that Biden didn't hold them to that May timeline (before the start of fighting season) and he is unable to carry through with any form of violence in response to any failure on the part of the Taliban to adhere to the agreed conditions. Everyone knows that the moment the Taliban violated the terms, Trump would have sent a bunch of them to the grave in response.
*THAT'S* the difference. Whether you like him or not, Trump negotiated from a position of strength backed by a willingness to do what is necessary to hold that other party to the terms of whatever agreement is reached or moving on and ending such agreements if the other party remains recalcitrant. He was also willing to demand that *new* terms be negotiated when presented with agreements that are one-sided and that gain the US nothing (NAFTA, Paris Climate, Iran nuclear deal, etc.). Every Dem administration going back to at least Clinton send to always agree to things that were decidedly not beneficial to the US and it's citizens (but definitely beneficial to them personal finances of Clinton, Biden, Kerry, Obama, etc.) We deserve leaders who are more concerned with the well being off the citizens that are supposed to serve rather than in lining their own pockets.
Biden is a cuckold, even amongst other Dems.
The facts are no one knows what Trump would have done and your "everyone" is all a fabrication.
Boots on the ground was never on my mind. Either airstrike, cruise missile or sending navy seals to take out the terrorist(OK that would be boots on the ground so to say, but only for this task then leave)
What kind of weapon was used ? There are some where a soldier has to mark the target with a laser. Then there's those where two fighter jet/drones attack a target, where one of them mark the target with a laser.
Markus
Skybird
08-28-21, 09:40 AM
Whether you like him or not, Trump negotiated from a position of strength backed by a willingness to do what is necessary to hold that other party to the terms of whatever agreement is reached or moving on and ending such agreements if the other party remains recalcitrant. He was also willing to demand that *new* terms be negotiated when presented with agreements that are one-sided and that gain the US nothing (NAFTA, Paris Climate, Iran nuclear deal, etc.). Every Dem administration going back to at least Clinton send to always agree to things that were decidedly not beneficial to the US and it's citizens (but definitely beneficial to them personal finances of Clinton, Biden, Kerry, Obama, etc.) We deserve leaders who are more concerned with the well being off the citizens that are supposed to serve rather than in lining their own pockets.
I'm sorry, but that is not the timeline I live in. Trump agreed to pull out NO MATTER WHAT, by the time of May he wanted to be out, and he got NO/ZERO/RIEN con cessions by the Taleban. Nothing. What eh claims he would have done in some imaginery alternative future scenario, is his claim only, and nothign pof it was in any form bound in a legal olbiation or treaty.
The Taleban wwere given everything. And they had to give back nothing. Thats the simple truth in the universe I have live dfin ion the past months and years. The Donald claims a lot when the day is long. Its his hobby. No substance, just claims, and repeating them endlessly even if they have been proven wrong.
Cyborg322
08-28-21, 12:38 PM
Minimal risk for whom?
Biden will lob a few rockets from drones into empty mountain caves and claim success.
????? That's what I said drones not ground assault ???? There is a risk of civilian casualties
Cyborg322
08-28-21, 12:44 PM
Boots on the ground was never on my mind. Either airstrike, cruise missile or sending navy seals to take out the terrorist(OK that would be boots on the ground so to say, but only for this task then leave)
What kind of weapon was used ? There are some where a soldier has to mark the target with a laser. Then there's those where two fighter jet/drones attack a target, where one of them mark the target with a laser.
Markus
US will have used drones that dont need a ground based laser designator. Guessing that they must of had intel on the location from Afghans could even been from same source as the bombing warning
The headlines in a Danish news article
For 20 years they fought each other now they have a common enemy.
To make the story short-USA and Taliban is approaching each others, there has been meeting between these two.
Wow yesterday-Enemy....today soon to become my friend.
Markus
Skybird
08-28-21, 01:18 PM
It has been drone strikes blowing up parties and weddings that have risen civilian casualty rates inflationary and made many Afghans so bitter about the Westerners.
America is overly optimistic on the reach of ELINT and high technology.
You need eyes and boots on the ground. You cannot do without HUMINT and infiltration of organisations. You just cannot. Especially in a technologically low profile place like Afghanistan.
Have the past 20 years really taught nothing?
Plus there is demography. In the eighties, during the Sovjet era, losses of Afghan fighters were compensated by a birth rate that made sure that at least three times as many young fighters were born than the Sovjets managed to get killed. When America invaded, it already stood against one million more young men than the Sovjets during their invasion stage.
The war index of Afghanistan (Gunnar Heinsohn) had climbed, the Sowjet war had not brought it down, quite the opposite. For the remaining years of this decade, this index will continue to fluctuate almost not at all and mark above 5.5, which makes Afghanistan one of the most war-ready places on this planet. Around 6 million young Afghan men in best soldier age are under weapons currently, more than ever during the Sovjet and American occupation, and until 2030, so says Heinsohn, another 1.4 million will add to that.
Party time.
Its not difficult to predict that the place will blow up in a huge flare of civil war between rivalling factions. Its for me the by far most likely scenario. War demographics, gentlemen. Nothing can keep up with the dynamics of war demographics. Its by far not only the geography and the rugged terrain, technology or scientific invention! ;)
Compared to the afghan war index, all western nations, China and Russia have war indices around and below 1.0
If you still do not know what the war index by Heinsohn is (I mentioned it many times over the years): its the ratio between old men dying and younger men growing into their places to replace them. A war index of 0.7 (Germany currently) means that for 1000 old combat-capable men leaving, 700 young men grow into that age where they could replace them in combat. The US is around 0.97.
Afghanistan has roughly 5500 young men growing into that age when 1000 older men leave the combat-ready age-range. That means you can massacre them at piecework speed, and they still would grow stronger. It was like this during the Sowjet invasion, and the Sowjets looked in disbelief, it was like this during the American occupation, and the Ameicans did not understand it either, and it is like this from now on. Its like in a scifi movie where they fire their lasers into a space monster, and by that feed it with energy and the monster grows and grows.
Heinsohn taught this, war demographics, at NATO command college in Rome.
You can defeat suc enemies only by a.) going after their high fertility, and b.) havignb a very long breath. Count such a war duration in generations, not years.
BTW, Islam since centuries counts cultural clashes and wars in generations, practically.
Rockstar
08-28-21, 01:33 PM
The facts are no one knows what Trump would have done and your "everyone" is all a fabrication.
The people who don’t know are the ones too lazy or stupid to read history. ‘We know’ Trump’s withdrawal was scheduled for May 1st. Trump said that while leaving Afghanistan is "a wonderful and positive thing to do," he had set a May 1 withdrawal deadline and added that "we should keep as close to that schedule as possible."
‘We know’ Sleepy Joe desired to politicize the event and wanted to extend the withdrawal deadline to September 11th. IMO Joe should have stuck with the plan and gotten the hell outta there ASAP.
No matter who the president is, it was going to be a mess in the final days. But it seems by everything I’ve read with Trump it would have ended sooner.
Jimbuna
08-28-21, 01:36 PM
The UK's final evacuation flight purely for civilians has left Afghanistan's capital, Kabul, the Ministry of Defence has said.
Further flights which leave will have UK diplomatic and military personnel on board, it added.
The head of the armed forces, Gen Sir Nick Carter, said it was "heartbreaking" they had not been able to rescue everybody.
He said hundreds of Afghans eligible to come to the UK remained in Afghanistan.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58367225
I'm not sure we could have done any more than we did when you consider the timeframe imposed on us.
If there was a German-speaking mind in modern times who really knew the Middle East inside out and had no illusions about the stupidity of Westerners - and Americans - in this regard, it was him.
Ballsy.
em2nought
08-28-21, 04:10 PM
I wonder if the Taliban will get more pallets of greenbacks than the Iranians did? :D
Otto Harkaman
08-28-21, 04:39 PM
We're starting to make more payments to enemies than the Byzantine Empire
Not only are the Taliban the terror group with most modern weapons, they are also about to be the riches. Read that there are about 3 trillion worth of (special) metal in the Afghan soil. And China want it.
Markus
Skybird
08-28-21, 05:12 PM
Ballsy.
Over here, his reports and TV documentaries are kind of legendary. He was ahead of his times, every time. And he still is, although being dead since some years.
Born in Alsace-Lorraine, he had both French and German citizenship and two domiciles in France and two in Germany, it is strange that in France he is almost unknown even if he worked in German.
A German comedian said back then: "They were stupid to have launched war in Afghanistan without having asked Peter Scholl-Latour first." :D
The video I linked btw is just part one of five.
And China want it.
Markus
At this point I would be questioning that.
China wants a stable supply of minerals.
Afghanistan and Stable don't seem to mix. :yep:
The Biden administration are all ivory-tower types who've never gotten their hands dirty and have zero understanding of real-world applied human psychology.
Ivory Tower types led by a draft dodging plagiarist.
Buddahaid
08-28-21, 08:15 PM
Ivory Tower types led by a draft dodging plagiarist.
Gee, it seems most of them live in ivory towers and that includes Trump. Your point is INVALIDATED. :arrgh!:
https://www.militarytimes.com/opinion/commentary/2021/01/21/dodging-and-deferring-trump-wasnt-the-only-potus-to-avoid-the-draft/
Ivory Tower types led by a draft dodging plagiarist.
I think he's trying to attack Biden, not Trump.
I think he's trying to attack Biden, not Trump.
Now, now, now. Trump would have gladly gone to Viet Nam if it wasn't for those pesky bone spurs. :O:
I think he's trying to attack Biden, not Trump.
Are you saying that Biden isn't those things or are you just trolling?
Now, now, now. Trump would have gladly gone to Viet Nam if it wasn't for those pesky bone spurs. :O:
Trump had 4 student deferments then a medical for bone spurs.
Biden had 4 student deferments then a medical for asthma.
Unlike Trump though Biden had to withdraw from his 1988 presidential campaign after admitting to plagiarism. If you leftists want to play the background comparison game then your boy is gonna loose.
Buddahaid
08-28-21, 09:37 PM
Not trolling, just pointing out that making comments to "taint" the charactor of a politician should at least be uncommon charactor faults of the individual and not common behavior of the ilk.
What was that statement made earlier about getting ones hands dirty? Since when did the "god" Trump ever get his hands dirty outside of ripping contrators off?
Buddahaid
08-28-21, 09:41 PM
Trump had 4 student deferments then a medical for bone spurs.
Biden had 4 student deferments then a medical for asthma.
Unlike Trump though Biden had to withdraw from his 1988 presidential campaign after admitting to plagiarism. If you leftists want to play the background comparison game then your boy is gonna loose.
He's not my "boy", he is simply the not Trump and I'm just fine with that for now.
Not trolling, just pointing out that making comments to "taint" the charactor of a politician should at least be uncommon charactor faults of the individual and not common behavior of the ilk.
But Trump and Biden are not of the same "ilk". One has spent most of his life as a private citizen who has only held a single political office for a single term and the other is a career leech, er i mean politician with over a half century on the public payroll. They are nothing at all alike.
He's not my "boy", he is simply the not Trump and I'm just fine with that for now.
Sure thing ET2SN or are you still answering to Arlo as well? Are you all the same person with multiple accounts?
Buddahaid
08-28-21, 10:02 PM
LOL! So for lack of a valid argument you now attack me as being some type of fake. I call that a win.
Anyway, no hard feelings here and have a good weekend. See you on the farside. :Kaleun_Salute:
LOL! So for lack of a valid argument you now attack me as being some type of fake. I call that a win.
You're like Joe Biden, declare victory in the face of reality and run away! :)
FWIW I only said that as a joke because you did it twice in a row, first for my reply to that arlo guy and then again for my reply to the other one.
Anyway, no hard feelings here and have a good weekend. See you on the farside. :Kaleun_Salute: Yeah no hard feelings Budda. We've had our political disagreements of course but unlike some of the others here I never get the feeling that it's personal from you.
Buddahaid
08-28-21, 10:57 PM
You're like Joe Biden, declare victory in the face of reality and run away! :)
FWIW I only said that as a joke because you did it twice in a row, first for my reply to that arlo guy and then again for my reply to the other one.
Yeah no hard feelings Budda. We've had our political disagreements of course but unlike some of the others here I never get the feeling that it's personal from you.
I must have missed running away. No point in taking any of this as personal as I value the argument over my personal feelings, well, most of the time...
Cyborg322
08-29-21, 04:51 AM
Back to business guys,emotive subject keep it cool;
The Guardian Online news
Afghanistan live news: US embassy warns of ‘specific, credible threat’ at Kabul airport as Biden says terror attack ‘highly likely in next 24-36 hours’
***********************************
really hope this is not good intel like the last
***********************************
Satellite images show hardware Taliban may get their hand on, some not yet confirmed
43 MD530 ( Littlebird) Helis
33 C208 AC208 light aircraft
33 UH60 Black Hawks
23 A29 Light Attack Aircraft
3 C130 Herculles
there are also 32 Russian MI17 Hind Helis
*************************************************
They are not going to have to rely on Donkeys and Toyotas for some time
Simon
^ Will they convince the Afghan army to fight side by side with them else they have to learn to fly these thing by them self and learn how to use the weapon system onboard.
Markus
He's not my "boy", he is simply the not Trump and I'm just fine with that for now. In that case I really have to question not only your judgement, but your critical thinking skills. This Administration has been a walking clusterf**k from day one.
^ Will they convince the Afghan army to fight side by side with them else they have to learn to fly these thing by them self and learn how to use the weapon system onboard.
Markus
Probably be more like:
"Pilot you will fly this aircraft where we tell you or you and your family will suffer Allahs judgement".
They can't keep that hardware running for long, especially the US equipment.
Can't be bothered to find the article atm, but there was one that pointed out that US crews only taught the very basic maintenance to AAF personnel. I doubt the Taliban have any greater experience.
Skybird
08-29-21, 10:54 AM
They have so many differenbt things.
The huge fleet of Humvees can be cannibalised to keep them going.
The drones can be sold (China), kept (Afghan trained operators are already there), or proliferated (Terror groups).
Plenty of NVGs.
Do not underestimate creativity and skill to improvise. Armed Iranian F-14s flew escorts for Russian bombers to and from Syria.
The smnall arms are not a concern to me, sine Afgjanbistan enver have been in danger to be in low supply of small arms. Some tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of new ARs and pistols make little difference. However, their optics, preicison and reach maybe do. I expect a factory-new M4 plus kit to be superior to an AK47 two generaitons old, worn outr and abused. And the old Kalashnikows were not that precise anyway.
What is worrying is possible stocks of missiles.
All this stuff is only as good as the mind and training and discipline of the person using it. The ordinary village Taleban certainly does not fly CAS Little Bird gunships. The trained Afghan air force pilot who gets blackmailed with the vulnerablity of his family, does.
Iran has the know-how and parts to keep some of their F-14 flying. In Afghanistan, 80-90% of all maintenance work was done by contractors.
Jimbuna
08-29-21, 12:56 PM
US officials say a missile targeted a suicide bomber in a vehicle who was aiming to carry out an attack at Kabul airport.
"We are confident we hit the target we were aiming for," a military official told the BBC's US partner network CBS
A rocket is reported to have hit a house near the airport, but it is unclear if this is connected to the US strike.
US President Joe Biden had warned that another attack on Kabul airport was likely.
The US is continuing its final flights from the country - more than 110,000 people have been evacuated.
The last UK troops, along with diplomats and officials, have now left Kabul airport.
On Friday the US says it killed two "high profile" members of the Islamic State-K group in a drone strike.
IS-K said it carried out Thursday's bomb attack at Kabul airport that killed up to 170 people.
Skybird
08-29-21, 01:30 PM
Iran has the know-how and parts to keep some of their F-14 flying.
Most.
According to an often quoted 8 year old estimation by some insider, they have - or had, at that time - around 40 planes left (thats half of the Tomcat fleet the Shah once bought), and due to intense blackmarket and smuggling operations and also creating spare parts themselves, they keep almost all of these flyable - and not ideally but sufficiently armed. Inm the war against Iraq they had to use Phoenix missiles (160 km) as short and medium range missiles - and scored some hits this way. They engage regularly in air intercepts and attempted intercepts against American drones. They even equipped them with improved and udated own radar.
They kept these planes despite an offer from China to sell them Chinese fighters of younger age.
Not bad how they keep so many of these active, considering the position they are in.
Jimbuna
08-29-21, 01:36 PM
I believe Iran are more technically advanced than some would give them credit for.
Tried to find an English article without any luck. So here is the Danish article translated-A part of it since it's behind paywall
"
While the Taliban are advancing rapidly in Afghanistan, the United States has begun targeting airstrikes on weapons and vehicles left behind by US forces and the Afghan government army.
According to the US television station NBC, most of the US airstrikes in Afghanistan are now aimed at abandoned equipment.
Among other things, drone strikes are being carried out on abandoned equipment, vehicles and weapons that the Taliban have captured from the Afghan military and police.
"It is very logical that the material you can not take with you, you will seek to destroy so that it does not fall into the hands of the enemy. It's also an indication that the game is about to be lost when you start on the kind that
"
Markus
Cyborg322
08-30-21, 07:42 AM
Rockets fired towards Afghanistan’s Kabul airport: Live News
Several rockets were fired towards Afghanistan’s Kabul international airport but were intercepted by a missile defence system.
Skybird
08-30-21, 10:36 AM
This kind of stuff happens way too often and is the reason why the US does not win "hearts & minds" with its super-cleverly planned drone warfare.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58380791
A US drone strike targeting a suicide bomber ended up killing 10 members of one family, including six children, surviving relatives have told the BBC.
Happened way too often in Afghanistan and Iraq as well. Thats why I keep on saying hightech cannot replace HUMINT and boots on the ground.
Skybird
08-30-21, 10:48 AM
The Bundeswehr evacuated around 4000 Afghans (of around 5000+ people in total). Of these only around ten percent were local staff and families.
It is estimated that regarding the Germans, around 40000 local Afghan staff and their families still sit in Afghanistan.
Quite some Afghans were evacuated. Just not those whom it was claimed the mission was about. :doh:
In a little while, the United States is out of Afghanistan, and then the true holy war begins
This was the headlines in a Danish newspaper. Did not read the text though.
Markus
Jimbuna
08-30-21, 12:00 PM
The US warns evacuation efforts are at a "particularly dangerous time"
A Pentagon spokesman says the "threat stream is still real, it's still active"
The US is due to complete its withdrawal from Afghanistan on 31 August after 20 years of war.
The US military says is investigating reports a drone strike intended to stop an attack on the airport killed civilians.
A family of 10 were killed in Sunday's strike, including six children, their relatives say.
Several rockets were fired at Kabul airport on Monday.
Militants of Islamic State-Khorosam say the group was behind the attack.
Skybird
08-30-21, 01:55 PM
To say i find it absolutely inappropriate, would be an understatement, but it certainly is illustrative for the infantile German Zeitgeist. The photo shows the German defence minister and the German general commanding the evacuation in location at Kabul, at the welcome-back (this time they ran one!) after the last Airbus had returned to Germany.
https://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/konflikt-in-afghanistan-deutschland/27560672/1-format1007.jpg
No, they are not married, no friends, not family, and no lovers. They are general and his superior minister.
The last American soldier has left Afghanistan. Now there ain't any foreign troops in Afghanistan.
(Well there's a chance there are some Navy Seals there)
Markus
3catcircus
08-30-21, 06:52 PM
The last American soldier has left Afghanistan. Now there ain't any foreign troops in Afghanistan.
(Well there's a chance there are some Navy Seals there)
Markus
Untrue. There are over 250 Americans that the Biden turds just abandoned. They also left every military working dog.
The Biden administration and the military leadership are complete garbage and it sickens me that they are going to get away with it
Untrue. There are over 250 Americans that the Biden turds just abandoned. They also left every military working dog.
The Biden administration and the military leadership are complete garbage and it sickens me that they are going to get away with it
250 is what they're saying publicly. Gohmert and some other GoP congressman were saying today on the radio that they're being told in briefings the number may be an order of magnitude higher.
Armistead
08-30-21, 08:37 PM
250 is what they're saying publicly. Gohmert and some other GoP congressman were saying today on the radio that they're being told in briefings the number may be an order of magnitude higher.
I think the estimates are well over a 1000. It's interesting our govt was still handing out billions in contracts to contractors there during Trump and even under Biden until April of this year. We had about 6100 US citizens working there listed of June this year. My friend's son works for a contractor there and got stuck in one of the southern providences when the Taliban overran it. His last call home 2 days ago he said "they hadn't heard shiate from the State Dept."
We won't know the whole story for a long time. Good luck to your friends son Armistead.
Aktungbby
08-30-21, 10:20 PM
I think the estimates are well over a 1000. It's interesting our govt was still handing out billions in contracts to contractors there during Trump and even under Biden until April of this year. We had about 6100 US citizens working there listed of June this year. My friend's son works for a contractor there and got stuck in one of the southern providences when the Taliban overran it. His last call home 2 days ago he said "they hadn't heard shiate from the State Dept."the number of civilian contractors killed in Afghanistan exceeded the number of military deaths... 3814 contractors from many nations are presently accounted for. 2461(incl. the last 11) US military deaths; 66,000 Afghan police and military deaths; approx. 1400 NATO troops; 51,191 Taliban and other Jihadis; 444 Aid workers and 72 journalists. Additionally, 30,177 combat veterans of all forces have committed suicide related to war related PTSS...so far.
em2nought
08-31-21, 12:17 AM
Thank goodness $80 billion in arms fell into the hands of "peaceful" folks like the Taliban, can you imagine the uproar if it had fallen into the hands of Trump voters instead? :har:
What I wanna know is "Who left the keys in the helicopter ignitions?" :D
Cyborg322
08-31-21, 04:30 AM
This kind of stuff happens way too often and is the reason why the US does not win "hearts & minds" with its super-cleverly planned drone warfare.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58380791
A US drone strike targeting a suicide bomber ended up killing 10 members of one family, including six children, surviving relatives have told the BBC.
Happened way too often in Afghanistan and Iraq as well. Thats why I keep on saying hightech cannot replace HUMINT and boots on the ground.
Could not agree more but its OK because the American government are "investigating it "!
Simon
Catfish
08-31-21, 07:34 AM
First step was to judge and kill without a court order, by remote control.
The new breed of drones is programmed to judge the situation itself, so not only no court but also no human decision (and no human can be blamed anymore [/cynism])
But this is not even a cynical joke:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/for-the-first-time-drones-autonomously-attacked-humans-this-is-a-turning-point/ar-AAKDmRc
https://www.npr.org/2021/06/01/1002196245/a-u-n-report-suggests-libya-saw-the-first-battlefield-killing-by-an-autonomous-d?t=1630413231776
Otto Harkaman
08-31-21, 08:03 AM
oh the US military left the contract working dogs, volunteer organizations are trying to get them out :(
https://www.americanhumane.org/press-release/american-humane-condemns-death-sentence-delivered-to-contract-working-dogs-left-behind-in-kabul-afghanistan/
https://www.tmz.com/2021/08/30/military-dogs-kabul-evacuation-nonprofit-pleads-for-help/
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-HpAE5VcAMtfV7?format=jpg&name=medium
Rockstar
08-31-21, 08:27 AM
They left the dogs, who cares? Our economy is teetering on collapse, we’re printing trillions of dollars and Congress is spending it like crazy in an effort to prop it up, drone strikes galore, expanding military presence in Africa, May 1st withdrawal deadline scrapped for the politicization of a September 11th withdrawal from Afghanistan. Victory declared, yet people still left behind in Afghanistan, But it’s all worth it and rationalized because all that really matters is that Trump is not in office. Jesus H Christ WTH?
:har::har::har::har::har::har:
https://i.imgur.com/2r5mFgc.jpg
3catcircus
08-31-21, 09:14 AM
They left the dogs, who cares? Our economy is teetering on collapse, we’re printing trillions of dollars and Congress is spending it like crazy in an effort to prop it up, drone strikes galore, expanding military presence in Africa, May 1st withdrawal deadline scrapped for the politicization of a September 11th withdrawal from Afghanistan. Victory declared, yet people still left behind in Afghanistan, But it’s all worth it and rationalized because all that really matters is that Trump is not in office. Jesus H Christ WTH?
:har::har::har::har::har::har:
Unfortunately, the US is like Rome was around 385 AD.
Catfish
08-31-21, 09:15 AM
They left the dogs [...] :har:
They? Not the UK :D
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/29/ex-marine-pen-farthing-arrives-in-uk-with-dogs-and-cats-onboard-flight
Untrue. There are over 250 Americans that the Biden turds just abandoned. They also left every military working dog.
The Biden administration and the military leadership are complete garbage and it sickens me that they are going to get away with it
Ok then our news channel has given us wrong information.
In their breaking news coverage they said that the last person to enter C17 plane was the ambassador and not there ain't no more boots on the ground.
But there are still hundreds of civilians who didn't get out or was helped.
Markus
Skybird
08-31-21, 10:10 AM
https://www.wochenblatt.es/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/vorhang-endgültig-gefallen.jpg
And for future troubles coming from there I recommend to hire Thor and his little hammer.
Otto Harkaman
08-31-21, 10:34 AM
"let us not forget that a crisis is also an opportunity. Many patterns become loosened, and doors open." Eugene Rostow
Might be a good thing the Europeans are thinking they need to get their act together about defending themselves as well as the Japanese and Taiwanese forging closer ties for their defense.
I think Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett's visit to the White House came at an opportune time for the Israelis. When other US allies were making noises of dissatisfaction, the Israelis gained against Iran by declaring their thanks for US support.
3catcircus
08-31-21, 10:48 AM
"let us not forget that a crisis is also an opportunity. Many patterns become loosened, and doors open." Eugene Rostow
Might be a good thing the Europeans are thinking they need to get their act together about defending themselves as well as the Japanese and Taiwanese forging closer ties for their defense.
I think Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett's visit to the White House came at an opportune time for the Israelis. When other US allies were making noises of dissatisfaction, for the Israelis to gain against Iran by declaring their thanks for US support.
If I were the leader of any country allied with the US, I'd be looking to figure out how to better defend myself. There are rumors that the UK is not going to support any US military action anywhere in the world until Biden is out of office. Sounds like a good strategy for any other country.
This thread was about the Afghan deadline.
As I see it we can close this thread now and open it when US and it's allied once again has intervene in Afghanistan.
This was said by a Swedish journalist(I think it was) who said.
If Afghanistan becomes a terror nest where trained terrorist is send into the west, US and it's allied may intervene again.
Markus
Buddahaid
08-31-21, 11:03 AM
Not yet. The Taliban have stated they will keep a safe lane for those who are still wanting out. It seems to me that would be in their best interests in the short term.
There are rumors that the UK is not going to support any US military action anywhere in the world until Biden is out of office.
There are? Huh. You do your best to project Trump onto Biden. :shucks:
Not yet. The Taliban have stated they will keep a safe lane for those who are still wanting out. It seems to me that would be in their best interests in the short term.
Why is it in there best interests? Will Biden drone strike another family of refugees if they don't decide to play nice?
Why is it in there best interests?
Their desire to be recognized as a legitimate government ... wait ... you haven't been paying attention, have you? :shucks:
Jimbuna
08-31-21, 01:30 PM
Since they took control of Afghanistan just over two weeks ago, the Taliban have sought to portray a more moderate image than when they last seized power in 1996.
They have repeatedly said they will grant amnesty to all, including those who worked for western militaries or the Afghan government or police. In a dramatic press conference after the group swept into Kabul, chief spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid made a declaration of forgiveness.
But there is growing evidence that the reality on ground is different to the rhetoric coming from Taliban leaders and spokesmen. It was not lost on some watching the press conference in Kabul that Mr Mujahid made his declaration from the seat of the former government spokesman Dawa Khan Menapal, who had been killed by the group just weeks earlier, as "punishment for his deeds".
Now sources inside Afghanistan, as well as some who recently fled, have told the BBC that Taliban fighters are searching for, and allegedly killing, people they pledged they would leave in peace.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58395954
Otto Harkaman
08-31-21, 01:35 PM
I hope this is true
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/874743806724030475/882272064965328906/Screenshot_20210831-093256_Facebook.jpg
Read in a Danish newspaper in which it stood that the Taliban had given orders to the farmers in the north to stop producing opium. Right after this was known the prices on the black market went sky high.
Markus
Rockstar
08-31-21, 05:41 PM
Read in a Danish newspaper in which it stood that the Taliban had given orders to the farmers in the north to stop producing opium. Right after this was known the prices on the black market went sky high.
Markus
The northern alliance will probably fight the Taliban to keep growing more freedom and democracy flowers.
Otto Harkaman
08-31-21, 05:56 PM
AGM-114R9X
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/images/agm-114r9x-image01.jpg
Bladed, incredibly precise: All about US's secret 'Hellfire' missile used in Afghanistan airstrikes against ISIS-K
https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/bladed-incredibly-precise-us-secret-hellfire-missile-used-afghanistan-airstrikes-against-isisk-1847238-2021-08-30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28z5nLcNGNU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUoiGIEx6d0
I hope this is true
Apparently those particular dogs were rescued by some private group.
Non-profit aiming to rescue dozens of military dogs from Afghanistan: report
Americans and Afghan allies weren’t the only ones apparently left behind inthe U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan (https://www.foxnews.com/world/afghanistan/index.html).
A non-profit organization said it was continuing to work Tuesday to help evacuate dozens of contracted military working dogs from the country, according to reports.
Joshua Hosler, president of Veteran Sheepdogs of America, said the organization was given 51 working dogs with the responsibility of getting them out of Kabul. The non-profit tweeted a photo last weekend of more than a dozen dog crates in front of a helicopter, which Hosler said was just a fraction of the canines left behind in the U.S. troop withdrawal, according to TMZ.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/non-profit-working-rescue-dozens-working-dogs-afghanistan
Kptlt. Neuerburg
08-31-21, 09:53 PM
Here are a few things to consider with regards to Afghanistan.
First of all after having been in-country for 20 years what how much of a difference did we really make and if we had stayed any longer then that would we have still made any difference at all?
Secondly, it seems that many people forgot the the Taliban weren't really beaten and defeated but where pushed out of Afghanistan and into Pakistan where they like the NVA and the VC where in Laos and Cambodia, given a relativity safe haven from the coalition forces and simply sat and waited until it was time to strike again. Yet no president from Bush Jr. to Biden at least to my knowledge gave any orders to actively seek and destroy the Taliban while they where in Pakistan, why? I strongly think that if we had been allowed to fight the Taliban in Pakistan we probably wouldn't be in the mess that has come to pass.
Thirdly was there was no Lawrence of Arabia figure to give a guiding hand to all the different tribal and religious differences in such a fractured part of the globe. It is easy to forget the many of these countries are countries in name only, as Feisal ibn Husein who was crowned the King of Iraq in August 1922 said of his country in March of 1933 after 12 years as king, " There is still--and I say this with a heart of sorrow--no Iraqi people but unimaginable masses of human beings, devoid of any patriotic idea, imbued with religious traditions and absurdities connected by no common tie, giving ear to evil, prone to anarchy and perpetually ready to rise against any government whatever.". What Feisal said was true then and it's still true 88 years later. How long will it take for the Middle East to become truly modernized? Without a change to something like Islam or how the governments in such nations are run, i.e. like a separation between government and religion or at least limit to some degree the influence of religion in their political system and change is unlikely.
" There is still--and I say this with a heart of sorrow--no Iraqi people but unimaginable masses of human beings, devoid of any patriotic idea, imbued with religious traditions and absurdities connected by no common tie, giving ear to evil, prone to anarchy and perpetually ready to rise against any government whatever."
And yet, the "erudites" of today denounce nationalism as xenophobic and/or racist. :nope:
Catfish
09-01-21, 01:39 AM
And yet, the "erudites" of today denounce nationalism as xenophobic and/or racist. :nope:
A lot of so called nations have been artificially founded by force through often colonialist action, especially in Africa and the middle east.
Within those nations you could call this rather micro-nationalism, or tribalism, where the values of one tribe or society does not match the other.
Such nations are prone to never grow together, at least not without a lot of education and their people having the time to think, instead having to fight for life and food every day.
Real nation building and the generation of common ideas takes a lot of time, instead of drawing some rectangular lines across maps by colonialist politics that have no idea of geography and ethnicities.
Easier to exploit Iraq when it is a nation of course, you cannot demand to negotiate with every warlord and tribe from companies like Shell or BP, or DeBeers :03:
Skybird
09-01-21, 07:14 AM
Nations are the material condensate of long historical processes of identify forming along ethnic and ideologic borderlines and shared histoircal events. See European nations. Thats why the EU must necessarily fail in trying to delete these many different identities and replacing them with one uniform surrogate identity from the sociological EU super-lab, in fact it creates growing conflicts due to mounting resistence to this misled ambition. Thats why the colonial powers failed in creating stable lasting states when they drew lines on maps that cut right through tribal, ethnical, ideological contexts and realities and forced together what did not match, and ripped apart what belonged together.
The same could be said about the multi- state that Yugoslavia was, or the Sovjet Union. China too is threatened by inner tensions due to dozens and dozens of cultural minorities that it deals with as was so often the case: it tries to suppress them with brute force and pure violence.
Obviously, Iraq and Palestine, Jordan and many place sin africa can be listed here, too.
The Balkan, too, is a region where again such imperial ambitions do not work, and imo never will work, whether it be Kosovo, or Bosnia Herzegowina. Both "states" since two decades stagnate and do not get their things otgether. And both have just hidden their inner potential for conflict that is embedded in their very founding like an ambe, and that could lead to a new blaze and huge fire any time.
These kind of things, desogning of nations against ethnic and tribal and historic and identity realities, cannot be created and enforced, they must grow at their own speed and will. Evolutions, not revolutions. Natural development, not enforced administration. Growing, not construction.
Nationalists generally aren't interested in the wellbeing of all of the people in their nation. Nationalists are actually 'identity-ists' whose only regard is their own narrow definition of who they are (regarding skin tone and/or religion and/or radical ideology and/or gender roles and or sexual behavior ... etc.) and will bond with those of similar attributes and attitudes to attack other citizens of 'their' nation that are different from them as enemies (often dehumanizing them in the process). This isn't something new. Those who study history recognize it's destructive pattern and realize that if 'nationalists' are given free reign they will destroy their own societies from within ... gleefully.
Rockstar
09-01-21, 09:28 AM
Nationalism is not evil. Nationalism would do a place like Afghanistan some good. A people’s loyalty to one nation, one flag, one form of government. Unfortunately it is and has been for many centuries ruled by dozens of tribal warlords killing the other because of their ‘identity-ism’.
Tribalism is deeply engrained in human nature nationalism and established cultural norms IMO is a bond that brings these tribes together. Like anything it can used or abused.
https://lithub.com/what-george-orwell-wrote-about-the-dangers-of-nationalism/
"Within this framework, Orwell lists three “principal characteristics of nationalist thought”:
1. “Obsession. As nearly as possible, no nationalist ever thinks, talks or writes about anything except the superiority of his own power unit.” His special mission is to prove that his chosen nation is in all respects better than its rivals. Therefore, even to the outer limits of plausibility, any question may be traced back to this central issue. No detail is indifferent, no fact is neutral.
2. “Instability.” The content of the nationalist’s belief, and even the object of his devotion, is liable to change as circumstances do. “What remains constant in the nationalist is his own state of mind”—the relentless, reductive, uncompromising fervor. The point is to keep oneself always in a frenzied state concerning vicarious contests of honor, whether indulging in spasms of rage over perceived insults or in sadistic ecstasies celebrating some new triumph. It is the single-minded intensity that matters, not the ostensible cause.
3. “Indifference to Reality.” Nationalists achieve by instinct the kind of doublethink that the denizens of Airstrip One cultivated by conscious effort: “Nationalism is power hunger tempered by self-deception. Every nationalist is capable of the most flagrant dishonesty, but he is also—since he is conscious of serving something bigger than himself—unshakably certain of being in the right.” His fundamental belief, he feels sure, must be true; therefore, the facts will have to be made to fit it."
Skybird
09-01-21, 11:08 AM
The argument is made since long that "patriotism" focusses predominantly on a quality of "loving one's own peer group and its culture and living place", where as nationalism more defines itself by aggressively keeping separate from the foreign people and maintaining kind of a hostile attitude towards others that are not one's own peer group that one identifies with - this could lead as far as to violently wanting to eradicate the identiy of the other by wiping him and his nation out. So the one focusses more on preferring or loving one's own group, the other focusses on being hostile towards the others, the foreign country.
Personally I use the phrase "historically grown sense of identity" since long. It makes more sense to me, is closer to what the human focus is about, and seems to match realities on the ground more often. I can tolerate patriots, get along with them. With nationalists I see nothing but problems.
For these reasons I can still be against the EU and what it wants to achieve in identity ideology - and still not feeling affected when somenbody accuses me that therefore I must be a nationalist. I am not.
And if I would plan to become one, I first would prefer to change my German nationality. :03: :O:
Aktungbby
09-01-21, 11:14 AM
One wonders if the ChiComs, having observed the Russian and motor out across the bridge, and the DamnedYankees make a muck of the Middle East generally, incl. Iran Iraq and Syria, & Yemen would even care to try their greedy hand :hmmm: ..."two outta three" having been bad. Our stabilizing skill was gone way back in 'Nam!
:O: quote of the day in the W.SJ.:"The chaotic and sudden withdrawal of American forces from Afghanistan is not good news for China", said Ma Xiaolin, an international relations scholar at Zhejiang International Studies University in Hanzhou, China. "China is not ready to replace the US in the region".:hmmm:The effrontery of that remark: implying that America serves Chinas interests as it expands globally in its Road and Belt domination of the planet...but the 'belt' presently doesn't have enough notches to encompass Sino-global ambitions...ie expendable western troops were serving China's purposes for 20 years; and now China must step up, Russia and the West having pulled out ignominiously, or lose face on the internation stage. I suspect adding Afghanistan to their ambitions, alongside current South China Sea and Indian border aggrandisement/clash issues, will hamper China as their birth rate and economy is slowing. Their expansionist China-first policies may have put them in a bind.:oops:
The argument is made since long that "patriotism" focusses predominantly on a quality of "loving one's own peer group and its culture and living place", where as nationalism more defines itself by aggressively keeping separate from the foreign people and maintaining kind of a hostile attitude towards others that are not one's own peer group that one identifies with - this could lead as far as to violently wanting to eradicate the identiy of the other by wiping him and his nation out. So the one focusses more on preferring or loving one's own group, the other focusses on being hostile towards the others, the foreign country.
Personally I use the phrase "historically grown sense of identity" since long. It makes more sense to me, is closer to what the human focus is about, and seems to match realities on the ground more often. I can tolerate patriots, get along with them. With nationalists I see nothing but problems.
For these reasons I can still be against the EU and what it wants to achieve in identity ideology - and still not feeling affected when somenbody accuses me that therefore I must be a nationalist. I am not.
And if I would plan to become one, I first would prefer to change my German nationality. :03: :O:
I found it kinda ironic when another poster tried to differentiate between 'tribalism' and 'nationalism' as if there was a vast difference between the two.:shucks:
And the Taliban failed
Since the fall of Kabul on Aug. 15, the Panjshir has been the only province to hold out against the Taliban, although there has also been fighting in neighbouring Baghlan province between Taliban and local militia forces.
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/eight-taliban-killed-panjshir-fighting-afghan-militia-forces-say-2021-08-31/
Markus
Jimbuna
09-01-21, 01:26 PM
Afghanistan LIVE updates: Taliban says it has surrounded resistance fighters in Panjshir, calls for peace
https://indianexpress.com/article/world/afghanistan-taliban-crisis-isis-kabul-india-us-live-updates-7481309/
Further clarification, in case:
FACT CHECK: Several Republican Senators and Congressmen spread this vile LIE on Facebook over the weekend. CORRECT THE RECORD! "To correct erroneous reports, the U.S. Military did NOT leave any dogs in cages at Hamid Karzai International Airport, including the reported military working dogs. Photos circulating online were animals under the care of the Kabul Small Animal Rescue, not dogs under our care," a Pentagon spokesman said in a tweet.
https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/240971107_5489293434496999_2661047104295342833_n.p ng?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=xILlVMTJ46kAX8KzwdU&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=812969c5d8d1b82a7778ba85dac960f6&oe=61540794
3catcircus
09-01-21, 04:33 PM
Further clarification, in case:
FACT CHECK: Several Republican Senators and Congressmen spread this vile LIE on Facebook over the weekend. CORRECT THE RECORD! "To correct erroneous reports, the U.S. Military did NOT leave any dogs in cages at Hamid Karzai International Airport, including the reported military working dogs. Photos circulating online were animals under the care of the Kabul Small Animal Rescue, not dogs under our care," a Pentagon spokesman said in a tweet.
https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/240971107_5489293434496999_2661047104295342833_n.p ng?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=xILlVMTJ46kAX8KzwdU&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=812969c5d8d1b82a7778ba85dac960f6&oe=61540794
A technical truth is still a lie. Supporting the US mission. Paid by the USG - this administration is still fully responsible.
Isn't dogs an unclean animal in Islam ?
Markus
Nationalism is not evil. Nationalism would do a place like Afghanistan some good. A people’s loyalty to one nation, one flag, one form of government. Unfortunately it is and has been for many centuries ruled by dozens of tribal warlords killing the other because of their ‘identity-ism’.
Tribalism is deeply engrained in human nature nationalism and established cultural norms IMO is a bond that brings these tribes together. Like anything it can used or abused.
Way I see it Nationalism is just an artificial version of Tribalism and both exist for the same exact and numerous reasons. Larger multi ethnic nations like us and the ChiComs, Russians, etc, keep many tribes under one "roof" as it were but the struggle is always to provide a social glue stronger than what is found naturally in a tribe. No nation can exist unless it's tribes are united or at least most of them are.
A technical truth is still a lie. Supporting the US mission. Paid by the USG - this administration is still fully responsible.
Nope. But you keep on trying, ok? :shucks:
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/08/31/pentagon-denies-military-dogs-were-left-behind-afghanistan.html
They're dogs ffs. :roll:
Some people care about dogs. :shucks:
Now I ask you
Who's most dangerous !
Donald Trump
or
Taliban leaders
When some of you have posted your comment I will tell you why I asked.
Markus
Now I ask you
Who's most dangerous !
Donald Trump
or
Taliban leaders
When some of you have posted your comment I will tell you why I asked.
Markus
Dangerous to whom?
Dangerous to whom?
Don't know
Maybe I should reveal the reason
Twitter has as you know closed Trumps account but the Taliban leaders can post their belief on twitter.
Can't say if Trump is dangerous to the American people and to the rest of the world, but letting Islamic fanatics have free access is wrong.
Markus
Don't know
Maybe I should reveal the reason
Twitter has as you know closed Trumps account but the Taliban leaders can post their belief on twitter.
Can't say if Trump is dangerous to the American people and to the rest of the world, but letting Islamic fanatics have free access is wrong.
Markus
Get back to me when Islamic fanatics attack the capital intending to kill most of congress so they can place their chief imam in the oval office.
Otto Harkaman
09-02-21, 06:10 PM
https://i.redd.it/jxbsu5o4ste31.png
Trump "now I can post on twitter"
Buddahaid
09-02-21, 07:06 PM
They love him so much they made him an honorary member. Whoda thunk! :arrgh!:
Get back to me when Islamic fanatics attack the capital intending to kill most of congress so they can place their chief imam in the oval office.
Yeah, because Trump led the charge. And certainly isn't on record telling everyone to go home, peacefully. :roll:
You're not very good at trolling. I've seen you trying it a lot lately. And failing ... a lot. lol
Yeah, because Trump led the charge. And certainly isn't on record telling everyone to go home, peacefully. :roll:
You're not very good at trolling. I've seen you trying it a lot lately. And failing ... a lot. lol
You're confused about the term 'trolling' ... but then that's the trendy fallback complaint when you don't agree with someone, isn't it? :shucks:
Armistead
09-02-21, 09:57 PM
Isn't dogs an unclean animal in Islam ?
Markus
Second to women...
Skybird
09-03-21, 08:05 AM
:doh:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/milley-us-coordination-taliban-strikes-79781801
Army Gen. Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said it's “possible” the United States will seek to coordinate with the Taliban (https://abcnews.go.com/alerts/Taliban) on counterterrorism strikes in Afghanistan against Islamic State militants or others.
How I miss the clearities of the cold war. There was "them", and there was "us", and that was it. Paradise lost.
I understand that Trump belongs to the bad guys and Taliban belongs to the good guys.
I do not questioning his ban on Twitter. I'm questioning Talibans free access.
Because they are evil and dangerous too.
Markus
Rockstar
09-03-21, 10:55 AM
It’s the frenzy people find themselves getting wrapped in. They sometimes don’t see the path being taken until it’s too late. The idea of banned speech because you don’t like it is just plain wrong. If you don’t like what the person is saying confront them with intelligent conversation make an effort to find out why or just turn off the TV and go do something else.
Even European leaders spoke out against the social media bans. But here in the U.S. the mind set is to shut them up, prosecute them, ban them, send them to jail, accusations of treason, insurrection, mutiny, sedition. IMO because of that group mentality it’s going to become easier and more frequent in this country as time goes on.
I understand that Trump belongs to the bad guys and Taliban belongs to the good guys.
If you 'understand' that then you're possibly having issues with 'unreal absolutes' or false oppositions.
... accusations of treason, insurrection, mutiny, sedition.
It's not like they were captured on their own cell phone videos rushing the capital building, breaking in, assaulting capital police, calling for the capture or death of senators and congressmen while shouting out platitudes for Trump and waving his flag or anything. :shucks:
Otto Harkaman
09-03-21, 12:39 PM
East Tennessee woman stays in Afghanistan to save military contract dogs
Clinton, Tennessee native Charlotte Maxwell-Jones is the director and founder of Kabul Small Animal Rescue in Kabul, Afghanistan, where she has lived for 11 years.
She said she’s staying behind until about 130 dogs, about 50 of which are military contract dogs, are safely evacuated.
Maxwell-Jones wants people to know that she is okay even though she was at the Kabul airport the day explosions killed 13 U.S. service members. She described that scene as a loud nightmare.
She said she received a visit from the Taliban on August 23 when 12 armed men warned her to leave immediately.
https://www.wkyt.com/2021/09/02/east-tennessee-woman-stays-afghanistan-save-military-contract-dogs/
:doh:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/milley-us-coordination-taliban-strikes-79781801
How I miss the clearities of the cold war. There was "them", and there was "us", and that was it. Paradise lost.
Yeah but Germans, especially you Easterners, were never really "us". You were the reason the rest of US had to spend decades defending your country.
Jimbuna
09-03-21, 01:00 PM
Thousands of Taliban fighters are taking on resistance forces in the last province holding out against the Islamist takeover.
Reports say there have been fierce clashes around the Panjshir valley.
The resistance includes former Vice-President Amrullah Saleh, former Afghan security force members and local militias.
Both sides are claiming to have gained the upper hand.
The EU and Britain have joined the US in saying they will deal with the Taliban, but won't see them as Afghanistan's government.
The EU is planning to re-establish a diplomatic presence in Kabul.
But it said any engagement would be subject to strict conditions and would only be to support the Afghan people.
It comes as the Taliban prepares to announce who will be in its government.
UK Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab is visiting Pakistan amid efforts to help Britons and others leave Afghanistan.
It's the Taliban who have sent this
Taliban is now in control over the entire country after they have taken Panjshir valley the last province in northern Afghanistan.
Further news related to Afghanistan
USA wants to work together with the Taliban to fight ISIS-K.
Markus
https://media.patriots.win/post/I98N8qak.jpeg
Buddahaid
09-03-21, 04:03 PM
It’s the frenzy people find themselves getting wrapped in. They sometimes don’t see the path being taken until it’s too late. The idea of banned speech because you don’t like it is just plain wrong. If you don’t like what the person is saying confront them with intelligent conversation make an effort to find out why or just turn off the TV and go do something else.
Even European leaders spoke out against the social media bans. But here in the U.S. the mind set is to shut them up, prosecute them, ban them, send them to jail, accusations of treason, insurrection, mutiny, sedition. IMO because of that group mentality it’s going to become easier and more frequent in this country as time goes on.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
I don't see a real problem with a tax paying business determining their policy.
"The FCC is prohibited by law from engaging in censorship or infringing on First Amendment rights of the press. It is, however, illegal for broadcasters to intentionally distort the news, and the FCC may act on complaints if there is documented evidence of such behavior from persons with direct personal knowledge. "
https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/broadcasting-false-information
Rockstar
09-03-21, 04:25 PM
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
I don't see a real problem with a tax paying business determining their policy.
The importance of the Internet as the "the most participatory form of mass speech yet developed," requires that the courts perpetually uphold the freedom of speech (ACLU). It’s unfortunate corporations are now determining what is permissible to be said and what is not. Many will initially be content with the great corporate algorithms and their decisions. Until the day their speech too will be simply turned off like those before them. But IMO but then it will be too late to do much about it, I guess. Without forums allowing full participation all that’s left are echo chambers.
I don't see a real problem with a tax paying business determining their policy.
Tax paying businesses are prohibited from discriminating against people for their race or background etc all the time. Why? Not because racial or ethnic hatred is against the law, you can hate anyone you want, but because discrimination on that basis violates peoples constitutionally guaranteed rights to equal treatment.
If private industry can, and should, be prohibited from violating those rights then what about the rest of our rights? Are they not valid enough for the Federal government to protect just as extensively?
If private industry can, and should, be prohibited from violating those rights then what about the rest of our rights? Are they not valid enough for the Federal government to protect just as extensively?
Please give examples of the rights (as apply to everyone without infringing on anyone) you fear are possibly in danger and why. Please include historical legal precedent. If you want and feel up to it. It's ok if you don't. :shucks:
Buddahaid
09-03-21, 05:05 PM
The importance of the Internet as the "the most participatory form of mass speech yet developed," requires that the courts perpetually uphold the freedom of speech (ACLU). It’s unfortunate corporations are now determining what is permissible to be said and what is not. Many will initially be content with the great corporate algorithms and their decisions. Until the day their speech too will be simply turned off like those before them. But IMO but then it will be too late to do much about it, I guess. Without forums allowing full participation all that’s left are echo chambers.
Desirable yes but I don't think Twitter is part of the Congress and the first amendment dictates that Congress shall pass no law. There is no first amendment violation so sue Twitter but don't whine about your free speech rights being violated. Not you specifically.
Rockstar
09-03-21, 05:08 PM
https://www.aclu.org/other/freedom-expression
THE FIRST AMENDMENT IGNORED
Early Americans enjoyed great freedom compared to citizens of other nations. Nevertheless, once in power, even the Constitution's framers were guilty of overstepping the First Amendment they had so recently adopted.
In 1798, during the French-Indian War, Congress passed the Alien and Sedition Act, which made it a crime for anyone to publish "any false, scandalous and malicious writing" against the government. It was used by the then-dominant Federalist Party to prosecute prominent Republican newspaper editors during the late 18th century.
Throughout the 19th century, sedition, criminal anarchy and criminal conspiracy laws were used to suppress the speech of abolitionists, religious minorities, suffragists, labor organizers, and pacifists.
In Virginia prior to the Civil War, for example, anyone who "by speaking or writing maintains that owners have no right of property in slaves" was subject to a one-year prison sentence.
The early 20th century was not much better. In 1912, feminist Margaret Sanger was arrested for giving a lecture on birth control.
Trade union meetings were banned and courts routinely granted injunctions prohibiting strikes and other labor protests. Violators were sentenced to prison.
Peaceful protesters opposing U. S. entry into World War I were jailed for expressing their opinions.
In the early 1920s, many states outlawed the display of red or black flags, symbols of communism and anarchism.
In 1923, author Upton Sinclair was arrested for trying to read the text of the First Amendment at a union rally.
Many people were arrested merely for membership in groups regarded as "radical" by the government. It was in response to the excesses of this period that the ACLU was founded in 1920.
The ACLU has often been at the center of controversy for defending the free speech rights of groups that spew hate, such as the Ku Klux Klan and the Nazis. But if only popular ideas were protected, we wouldn't need a First Amendment. History teaches that the first target of government repression is never the last. If we do not come to the defense of the free speech rights of the most unpopular among us, even if their views are antithetical to the very freedom the First Amendment stands for, then no one's liberty will be secure. In that sense, all First Amendment rights are "indivisible."
Censoring so-called hate speech also runs counter to the long-term interests of the most frequent victims of hate: racial, ethnic, religious and sexual minorities. We should not give the government the power to decide which opinions are hateful, for history has taught us that government is more apt to use this power to prosecute minorities than to protect them. As one federal judge has put it, tolerating hateful speech is "the best protection we have against any Nazi-type regime in this country."
At the same time, freedom of speech does not prevent punishing conduct that intimidates, harasses, or threatens another person, even if words are used. Threatening phone calls, for example, are not constitutionally protected.
It’s appears though corporations can support popular ideas benefiting their lobby and candidates but suppress the speech and ideas of the minority. Rather than standing up and defending the minority and abolishing the echo chambers the popular Americans are content with the suppression. How did that saying go? ‘merica love it or leave it’ ya that brings back memories.
In which country does Twitter have it's main office (Origin)
It has something to do with what kind of law they have to obey.
Edit
It's in Silicon Valley
End edit
Then they must, as I see it, obey American law
Markus
Rockstar
09-03-21, 05:32 PM
Desirable yes but I don't think Twitter is part of the Congress and the first amendment dictates that Congress shall pass no law. There is no first amendment violation so sue Twitter but don't whine about your free speech rights being violated. Not you specifically.
There is no excuse to just roll over and allow it to happen. we still have a responsibility to defend even the most idioctic speech by hitting corporations where it counts, the bottom line.
There is no excuse to just roll over and allow it to happen. we still have a responsibility to defend even the most idioctic speech by hitting corporations where it counts, the bottom line.
Everyone has always had that option. Ever. :shucks:
Rockstar
09-03-21, 05:42 PM
Everyone has always had that option. Ever. :shucks:
They were called Unions :yep:
They were called Unions :yep:
Unions are still called unions. 'Purchasing power', however, is the real bottom line and involves the consumer.
Rockstar
09-03-21, 08:01 PM
Unions are still called unions. 'Purchasing power', however, is the real bottom line and involves the consumer.
Yep, that’s best way to fight the man. :arrgh!:
Jimbuna
09-04-21, 12:55 PM
Fresh fighting in final anti-Taliban stronghold
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58443679
3catcircus
09-04-21, 02:23 PM
Desirable yes but I don't think Twitter is part of the Congress and the first amendment dictates that Congress shall pass no law. There is no first amendment violation so sue Twitter but don't whine about your free speech rights being violated. Not you specifically.
I would agree, except that social media has become the de facto soapbox on the town common. It's akin to the company contracted to mow the lawn on the town common on behalf of the city coming to the guy on the soapbox and chasing him away so he doesn't get run over as they mow the grass, smashing over his bullhorn and soapbox in the process. They're not kicking him out of the town common, they'll just mow him down along with the grass if he doesn't get out of the way. City government hasn't taken away his soapbox and bullhorn, but they've not told their contractor to not run over people along with the grass if they're in the way. He's still there, voicing his opinion from the side, but now no one who may have an interest in what he has to say can hear him.
The internet is the town common and social media is the soapbox and bullhorn because we're at the point that internet access providers and any kind of messaging/social media providers should be considered as common infrastructure since they enjoy protections of being a common carrier while also exercising the actions of wielding editorial control.
That's the difference. If they didn't shadowban, suspend, or permanent ban people who voice unpopular (even ridiculous) viewpoints, I'd have a different consideration for them. But when they ban unpopular but legal viewpoints while simultaneously allowing unlawful viewpoints, they've lost any credibility.
Fresh fighting in final anti-Taliban stronghold
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58443679
Matter of time i'm afraid. We've abandoned them. No Special Forces riding mountain ponies into battle, or calling in B52 strikes, and we've left their enemies with enormous stockpiles of arms and munitions. Matter of time.
Buddahaid
09-04-21, 03:53 PM
I would agree, except that social media has become the de facto soapbox on the town common. It's akin to the company contracted to mow the lawn on the town common on behalf of the city coming to the guy on the soapbox and chasing him away so he doesn't get run over as they mow the grass, smashing over his bullhorn and soapbox in the process. They're not kicking him out of the town common, they'll just mow him down along with the grass if he doesn't get out of the way. City government hasn't taken away his soapbox and bullhorn, but they've not told their contractor to not run over people along with the grass if they're in the way. He's still there, voicing his opinion from the side, but now no one who may have an interest in what he has to say can hear him.
The internet is the town common and social media is the soapbox and bullhorn because we're at the point that internet access providers and any kind of messaging/social media providers should be considered as common infrastructure since they enjoy protections of being a common carrier while also exercising the actions of wielding editorial control.
That's the difference. If they didn't shadowban, suspend, or permanent ban people who voice unpopular (even ridiculous) viewpoints, I'd have a different consideration for them. But when they ban unpopular but legal viewpoints while simultaneously allowing unlawful viewpoints, they've lost any credibility.
Not quite. It's more in line with a group of people shouting down someone on their soapbox such that they cannot be heard which is also not a violation of the first amendment as the shouting crowd is just exercising their first amendment rights.
Day before yesterday the Taliban send a telegram saying they had captured the last province in Northern Afghanistan and video clip from Kabul showed bullets being fired into the air.
Then today news are saying there's a battle going in that area. The leader from this Province has rejected Talibans claimed victory.
Didn't surprise me at all.
It's however only a matter of time before Taliban can say they have won and gain control over this area.
Markus
Buddahaid
09-04-21, 05:11 PM
They can say all they want but I doubt they will ever gain full control of the area.
3catcircus
09-04-21, 05:41 PM
Not quite. It's more in line with a group of people shouting down someone on their soapbox such that they cannot be heard which is also not a violation of the first amendment as the shouting crowd is just exercising their first amendment rights.
I could see that applying. But, who decides which of those shouting is to be silenced? The answer should be "based upon what the majority of listeners thinks, they will naturally ignore who they don't want to listen to." But, on social media, it isn't a majority of listeners/readers, it's designated individuals whose judgment may or may not reflect majority opinion.
Going a little off topic.
Remember a documentary on Danish tv about how powerful Facebook and Twitter had become. It was something with they have created their own law and pushed American law away.
Well if this is the case, then the American politicians must do something about it. Facebook and Twitter has their main office in USA and must follow the law there.
Back to Afghanistan Deadline.
Markus
Get back to me when Islamic fanatics attack the capital intending to kill most of congress so they can place their chief imam in the oval office.
Hyperbole much?
Hyperbole much?
Not a fraction of what .... some here .... do. However, when the Taliban does that then we have (another) problem. Do your thing, Def. :shucks:
Skybird
09-05-21, 07:58 AM
They can say all they want but I doubt they will ever gain full control of the area.
Afghjanistan enver was short in supply of wepaons, but still ammunition and such stuff is needed. If the resitrence has access to such suppolies, they cnanot be dirven out. If their supplies run thin, they have bad cards in the long run. Russia an dchina scertainly have an interets in the resistence stallking, so that tehy cna start to make deals with the Taleban. Same is true for the West. I think different to the past, nobody outside Afghanistan sympathises with the resistence in the Panjir valley region. Except maybe some Afghans who fled from Afghanistan now.
And the cvivil population? Is sick and tired of decades of conbstant war and fighting putting their families and kids and wifes at risk. Thats why the Wests wa snot loved. And why many Afghans givign the Taleban now credit for that life is secure and safer now and crime is down.
Pragmatism over idealism and high-flying values.
Jimbuna
09-05-21, 08:20 AM
Matter of time i'm afraid. We've abandoned them. No Special Forces riding mountain ponies into battle, or calling in B52 strikes, and we've left their enemies with enormous stockpiles of arms and munitions. Matter of time.
Rgr that :yep:
Jimbuna
09-05-21, 08:22 AM
"Everybody got it wrong" on how quickly the Taliban would take over Afghanistan, the head of Britain's armed forces has said.
Gen Sir Nick Carter told the BBC: "It was the pace of it that surprised us and I don't think we realised quite what the Taliban were up to."
Asked whether military intelligence was wrong, he said the government received intelligence from a variety of sources.
"It's not purely about military intelligence," he said.
The last British and US troops left Afghanistan a week ago, bringing their 20-year military campaign in the country to an end.
There has been criticism of the way the West withdrew from Afghanistan, with questions over how the Taliban was able to seize control of the country at such speed.
Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab told MPs last week the intelligence assessment had been that there would be a "steady deterioration" in the security situation in August but it was "unlikely Kabul would fall this year". However, the Taliban took over Kabul in mid-August.
Speaking to the BBC's Andrew Marr show on Sunday, Gen Sir Nick was asked how the predictions had been wrong.
"I think everybody got it wrong is the straight answer," he said. "Even the Taliban didn't expect things to change as quickly as they did."
The chief of defence staff said: "I don't think what anybody predicted was how fragile that Afghan government was and how fragile it was in relation to the command of its armed forces."
The Taliban is expected to announce a new government in the coming days, meaning foreign powers will have to adapt to the prospect of dealing with a Taliban administration.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58453258
They can say all they want but I doubt they will ever gain full control of the area.
According to Swedish news they have gain 24 km of this province and captured some town in this province. This was some hours ago
Markus
Jimbuna
09-05-21, 10:30 AM
Two hours old
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/9/5/afghanistan-will-likely-erupt-in-civil-war-top-us-general
Jimbuna
09-06-21, 06:02 AM
The Taliban say they are in complete control of the Afghan province of Panjshir.
The valley "has been cleared today completely", a spokesman told a news conference in Kabul.
Pictures on social media show Taliban fighters in front of the gate of the provincial governor's compound.
But fighters resisting Taliban rule have disputed Taliban claims and say fighting continues.
As recently as Sunday, their leader Ahmad Massoud had said he was open to peace talks.
The Taliban took control of the rest of Afghanistan three weeks ago, following the collapse of the Western-backed government.
They are expected to announce who will be in their government soon.
Rockstar
09-06-21, 10:11 AM
You will learn more in an hour from Pepe.
https://youtu.be/QiF3TQZSxhs
Jimbuna
09-06-21, 11:57 AM
The Taliban have declared victory over the province of Panjshir northeast of the capital Kabul, the final pocket of territory which has remained outside their rule.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58466647
< Didn't they claim victory last week ?
Markus
Jimbuna
09-06-21, 12:28 PM
Yes but in this article there is a video showing the Taliban fighters raising their flag in front of Panjshir's provincial governor's office, thereby giving their claims more credence.
From what I understand by hearing and reading the news here. They don't have complete control over this province, something with clashes here and there.
But it's only a matter of time before they have full control over Panjshir
Markus
Jimbuna
09-06-21, 01:00 PM
But it's only a matter of time before they have full control over Panjshir
Precisely :yep:
Catfish
09-06-21, 02:47 PM
I just read the development and treaties with Afghanistan will be..
China gets the natural resources
America gets the drugs
Germany gets the refugees
:O:
Otto Harkaman
09-06-21, 02:55 PM
The fall of Panjshir has Pakistan written all over it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcBkA68s2YM
Buddahaid
09-06-21, 03:14 PM
Pretty funny. The joke that is.
Why does Pakistan bomb Panjshir ?
To help Taliban ?
To help the freedom fighters ?
Markus
Otto Harkaman
09-06-21, 04:08 PM
Why does Pakistan bomb Panjshir ?
To help Taliban ?
To help the freedom fighters ?
Markus
Pakistan's support of the Taliban is a proxy war against India
The strong Pakistani alliance with a China that is vastly richer than it was 20 years ago also gives Pakistan the hope that Chinese investment in Afghanistan may help to keep the Taliban government aligned with Pakistani interests.
Pakistan's support of the Taliban is a proxy war against India
The strong Pakistani alliance with a China that is vastly richer than it was 20 years ago also gives Pakistan the hope that Chinese investment in Afghanistan may help to keep the Taliban government aligned with Pakistani interests.
Thank you.
I seem to recall what someone wrote about Taliban and India. Something with bombing some province in India. I could of course have remembered wrong though.
Markus
Rockstar
09-06-21, 06:21 PM
Why does Pakistan bomb Panjshir ?
To help Taliban ?
To help the freedom fighters ?
Markus
Watch the video I posted from Pepe Escobar. You will learn more in an hour than you have in the last twenty years.
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2766911&postcount=689
Catfish
09-07-21, 05:04 AM
It is not even about "Afghanistan" or "Pakistan", with the somewhat cluelessly drawn "borders", there are Pashtuns left and right of it and a lot are Taliban.
Of course they try to get control over a larger area, question is whether THEY will suceed with it.
B.t.w. Churchill's "The Story of the Malakand Field Force" (https://freeditorial.com/en/books/the-story-of-the-malakand-field-force) is a good read; I doubt much has changed.
Jimbuna
09-07-21, 12:39 PM
B.t.w. Churchill's "The Story of the Malakand Field Force" (https://freeditorial.com/en/books/the-story-of-the-malakand-field-force) is a good read; I doubt much has changed.
Agreed :yep:
Jimbuna
09-07-21, 12:45 PM
The Taliban have announced a new interim government for the country and declared it an "Islamic Emirate"
The group's supreme commander Hibatullah Akhundzada urges ministers to uphold Sharia law in Afghanistan.
The cabinet includes several figures who fought against the US-led invasion from 2001
Mullah Mohammad Hassan Akhund, one of the movement's founders, is acting prime minister.
Sarajuddin Haqqani, named as interior minister, is leader of the feared Haqqani militant network and wanted by the FBI
No women's affairs minister has been announced, and there are no women named in the interim cabinet.
The Taliban took control of Afghanistan more than three weeks ago, following the collapse of the Western-backed government.
Earlier on Tuesday the Taliban fired shots to disperse a protest denouncing their rule in Kabul.
ssjtoma
09-08-21, 07:17 AM
As a veteran, it really upset me to see this happen. I am still awaiting word on an interpreter that worked with us to find out if he and his family (wife, 4 kids) got out of there. Can't find any information and it is upsetting to think he and his family may have been left behind and probably killed. Pulling the military out first was the worst thing anyone could have ever done in this situation and for him to tell the Afghan government back in July to make it look like they were winning makes it even worse.
Jimbuna
09-08-21, 12:41 PM
The Taliban's celebratory gunfire crackled over Kabul as the West pulled out this week. But militancy alone is likely to leave the Taliban on its own - globally isolated, with millions of Afghans facing an even more uncertain future.
The world's powers are now scrambling to exert influence amid the return of the country's Islamist rulers. And in the process two nations from the Arab and Muslim world have been emerging as key mediators and facilitators - Qatar and Turkey.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-58394438
I really don't understand the importance of allowing Turkey to remain in NATO.
Whatever next....EU membership?
I really don't understand the importance of allowing Turkey to remain in NATO.
Whatever next....EU membership?
Sure. Why not? They'd be subject to more regulation than they are now.
Rockstar
09-08-21, 02:04 PM
I really don't understand the importance of allowing Turkey to remain in NATO.
Whatever next....EU membership?
That article is not entirely true. From what I’ve been seeing the U.S. brokered a meeting between Turkmenistan’s and the Taliban to build TAPI. Or goal is the same as our NATO ally Turkey to ensure Iran, China and Russia are kept out of the rich energy resources found in asia’stan’
I think it’s also one reason why we resumed sanctions against Iran in order to keep them dirt poor and unable to influence regional politics of the TAPI pipeline.
em2nought
09-09-21, 01:42 AM
Too bad Gavin Newsom didn't get caught doing this. :03:
https://abc7.com/kabul-airport-attack-memorial-desecrated-us-flags-vandalized/11007359/
Jimbuna
09-09-21, 05:16 AM
Protesters defy Taliban intimidation
Protesters have again taken to the streets in several parts of Afghanistan, defying Taliban pressure to stay at home.
Dozens of demonstrators gathered near the Pakistan embassy in Kabul and Taliban gunmen opened fire to disperse them, protesters said.
More demonstrations were reported in Parwan and Nimruz provinces.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58497904
Can;t decide if these people are extremely brave or stupid.
blackswan40
09-10-21, 05:16 AM
Charlie Browns take Joe Bidens Fairy Tale Presidency
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1223&pictureid=12029
Jimbuna
09-10-21, 11:57 AM
Chaos and confusion: The frenzied final hours of the Afghan government https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58477131
Aktungbby
09-10-21, 12:09 PM
I really don't understand the importance of allowing Turkey to remain in NATO.
Whatever next....EU membership?AHEM: "Keep your friends close...and your enemies even closer" :arrgh!:
Otto Harkaman
09-11-21, 11:28 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cZz0kzbFYg
Jimbuna
09-11-21, 12:06 PM
Interesting :yep:
Otto Harkaman
09-11-21, 12:06 PM
HAQQANI NETWORK
The Taliban are made of several Pashtun tribes that have always fought for control. The Haqqani Network is now using this infighting.
The Haqqani network, which has the backing of elements within the Pakistani security establishment, is one of Afghanistan’s most experienced and sophisticated insurgent organizations.
Siraj Haqqani, the son of the famous anti-Soviet fighter Jalaluddin Haqqani, is the current leader of the Haqqani network. Siraj is more extreme than his father and maintains closer ties to al-Qaeda and other foreign extremists in Pakistan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMubAQbiHx0
Why Pakistan supports the Taliban
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Du47JgEEKM
Jimbuna
09-12-21, 09:07 AM
Taliban announce new rules for female students.
Afghan universities will be segregated by gender, and a new Islamic dress code will be introduced, the Taliban said on Sunday.
Higher Education Minister Abdul Baqi Haqqani indicated women would be allowed to study, but not alongside men.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58537081
Aktungbby
09-13-21, 11:35 AM
Blame is a dish best served piping hot, and everybody seems to have something to bring to the Afghanistan Withdrawal Pot Luck and Political Lynching.
Generally acknowledged to be as extraordinarily messy as our 20-year sojourn there, America’s final exit from Afghanistan desperately needs a fall guy, a culprit, a perp guilty of the crime. We don’t want to blame a group, large or small, because that doesn’t make as satisfying a meal.
So let’s make it about Joe Biden. Let’s title the indictment, “We absolutely needed to leave, but not in this chaotic way.” After all, the departure was so disorganized, so rushed and panicky — it just wasn’t right. What we should have done is: (you are invited to fill in the blank). Whatever suggestions you chose, I would submit that you probably missed the inescapable ingredient in this road-apple hoagie.
The truth is: our messy exit was just the logical extension of a massive, 20-year-long institutional failure, on every level of government. The truth is: the heart of the disaster was the absolute refusal of four presidents, our military, our intel and diplomatic agencies, to publicly acknowledge the lethal, self-congratulatory, delusional hubris of believing the puppet Afghan government was real.
To everyone who is now chomping at the bit, saying “But, but, but,” I would ask this question: Which president would have executed a better exit than Biden, once you factor in the shocking speed with which the “Afghan Security Forces” dissolved — or even joined — the Taliban fighters, when the minimum of 12 or 18 months that experts estimated the Afghan government would last, melted away? This was the catastrophic miscalculation that made the rout inevitable; it was a long-term, equal opportunity combination of idealism and cynical, calculated political strategizing.
Take Dubya’s approach, for example. In 2007, four years after he essentially ignored the Afghanistan conflict in favor of an even more foolish military adventure in Iraq, he gave a speech in which he said our work in Afghanistan was to “establish a stable, moderate, and democratic state that respects the rights of its citizens.” He said, “…our work is bringing freedom.”
Today, such statements about a hugely backward, theocratic collection of warlike tribes are not a case of rose-colored glasses, but more like LSD kicking in.
As did Dubya’s, Obama’s treatment of the Afghan question sidestepped the issue of not just whether the Afghan forces were capable of defending their own government, but whether they even believed there was something to defend. After his troop surge in 201l, followed by a decision to withdraw all U.S. troops by 2014, he settled on leaving about 10,000 troops there. This was presumably not because he had terrific faith in the Afghans’ willingness/ability to defend themselves. And how about the former “president?” Which of his contradictory, opportunistic statements should we believe? The best answer is “none,” since lying and pandering has always been his MO. Though he insisted in 2017 that we would “fight to win,” by 2019 the self-described brilliant “dealmaker” had inked an agreement with the Taliban that simultaneously shut out the Afghan government (a huge morale-builder for Afghans, absolutely, in case they harbored any shred of confidence in their own government) and freed 5,000 terrorists from prison, while the Taliban would forbid any anti-American terrorist activity inside Afghanistan —with zero mechanisms in place to verify that. The former “president” ultimately drew troop levels down to about 3,500. Not really perfect conditions for the mid-2021 U.S. withdrawal that was also part of the agreement. Such genius. So next in line is Biden, who in deciding to actually get out of Afghanistan comes face to face with the fallout from 20 years of group-think and delusional policy. There was never a free and democratic Afghanistan. The Afghan Security Forces were, like the government, a creature born of and maintained by American money and little else. What kind of patriotism could we expect in a country where citizens have only the vaguest sense of nationhood? Where leaders are famously corrupt, and the economy relies heavily on the freaking opium poppy?
Biden’s determination to face the thankless task of leaving Afghanistan stripped bare all these illusions and made him the sacrificial animal in a dark ritual intended to absolve our previous leaders and their administrations of the guilt arising from willfully blind service to the mirage of a serious Afghan government.
But look on the bright side. If you’re an American who appreciates the gun-toting theocracy that Afghanistan promises to become, there’s a budding example of just such a government right here at home. Where corrupt evangelical leaders flourish, where anybody can carry a concealed weapon anywhere, and government control of women is now just a few short steps from the burka. It’s Texas! Come on down!:yeah: I should stop paying my income taxes...participating in disorganesed crime is a violation of the Federal RICO Act Part of the Organized Crime Control Act of 1970, the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) makes it unlawful to acquire, operate, or receive income from an enterprise through a pattern of racketeering activity. Geared toward ongoing organized criminal activities, the underlying tenet of RICO is to prove and prohibit a pattern of crimes conducted through an “enterprise,” which the statute defines as “any individual, partnership, corporation, association, or other legal entity, and any union or group of individuals associated in fact although not a legal entity.”
Under RICO, it is a crime for an individual to belong to an “enterprise” that is involved in a pattern of racketeering, even if the racketeering was committed by other members. And I want my totally wasted Trillion dollars refunded from the 'forever War': As we peer into society's future, we – you and I, and our government – must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering for our own ease and convenience the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.[2]
A draft of the farewell address, showing handwritten edits.
Despite his military background and being the only general to be elected president in the 20th century, he warned the nation with regard to the corrupting influence of what he describes as the "military-industrial complex".
Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense. We have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security alone more than the net income of all United States corporations.
Now this conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence—economic, political, even spiritual—is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet, we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources, and livelihood are all involved. So is the very structure of our society.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
He also expressed his concomitant concern for corruption of the scientific process as part of this centralization of funding in the Federal government, and vice versa:
Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.
In this revolution, research has become central, it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.
...
The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocation, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded.
Yet in holding scientific discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite...<BOTTOM LINE ie: all our expensive high tech hardware ain't gettin' the job done defensively or offensively 62 years later!?? We don't win wars and we aren't safe at home(9/11) no IMHO 'bout it!!??:hmmm:
Jimbuna
09-13-21, 12:03 PM
The BBC has found that at least 20 civilians have been killed in Afghanistan's Panjshir Valley, which has seen fighting between the Taliban and opposition forces. Communications have been cut in the valley, making reporting difficult, but the BBC has evidence of Taliban killings despite promises of restraint.
Footage from a dusty roadside in Panjshir shows a man wearing military gear surrounded by Taliban fighters. Gunfire rings out and he slumps to the ground.
It is not clear if the man killed was an army member - combat uniforms are common in the region. In the video a bystander insisted he was a civilian.
The BBC has established there have been at least 20 such deaths in Panjshir.
One of the victims was a shopkeeper and father-of-two called Abdul Sami.
Local sources said the man would not flee when the Taliban advanced, telling them: "I'm just a poor shop owner and have nothing to do with war."
But he was arrested, accused of selling sim cards to resistance fighters. Days later his body was dumped near his home. Witnesses who saw his body said it showed signs of torture.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58545892
Otto Harkaman
09-13-21, 03:07 PM
I'm beginning to think that we have actually been at war for 20 years with Pakistan and just fighting their proxy the Taliban.
Qatar and Pakistan are backing different factions of the Taliban were will this lead to?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qRvjiGTjZQ
I didn't realize how much Pakistan feared Indian influence in Afghanistan. Strange how the USA during the Cold War under Pres. Nixon once supported Pakistan (backed by China) against India (backed by the Soviet Union).
The Taliban, Pakistan & China: India braces for three-front threat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMZeYX7fFoM
Looks like there will be a battle for Kashmir
Taliban(Afghanistan) and Pakistan a threat to India I would understand. But I can't get China into the equation- What interest could they have taking part in a war against India side by side with Afghanistan and Pakistan ?
I know there's an area between these two country China and India which has resulted in clashes now and then.
Markus
Otto Harkaman
09-13-21, 04:05 PM
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/567609976269307928/887081194557169704/unknown.png
https://cdn.britannica.com/86/130886-050-60B431F8/Tibet-Autonomous-Region-China.jpg
Jammu and Kashmir was a state of India from 1954 to 2019, constituting the southern and southeastern portion of the larger Kashmir region, which has been the subject of a dispute between India, Pakistan and China since the mid-20th century.
Aktungbby
09-13-21, 04:16 PM
/\ Basically Pakistan, which has trolled US handout finances for decades, in appearing to be an ally in the war on Taliban, alQueda and ISIS terrorism is left holding nothing as China, in its global Road and Belt doctrine, prepares to supplant the Russian and American vacancy in utterly impoverished Afghanistan to gain access to its mineral wealth. Pakistan cannot compete economically with Chinese influence and economic allure nor will the totalitarian Xi regime fall for two-faced Pakistani aggrandizement handout tactics that worked with the Washinton administrations for 20 years. A powerful Sino-Afghan coalition is now a geographic reality along Pakistan's northern boarder and Pakistan is well aware of how that works on the Sino-Indian Kashmir boarder. India, Pakistan and China all possess nuclear arsenals...I just hope Afghanistan, like Cuba in the 60s missile crises, isn't some latterday WWI style Sarajevo fuse-lighter; but I suspect that will eventually be Taiwan.:oops::x:dead:
Hope it doesn't get that far. No one would win in a war between these countries.
Markus
So let’s make it about Joe Biden.
Yes, let's. He signed up for this. And he has publicly acknowledged that all responsibility ultimately rests with the Commander in Chief and President of the United States. That doesn't mean that many other people aren't guilty of poor decision making, too. They should also be held accountable. A myriad of mistakes have been made over a long period of time, but this one was on his watch. Decisions like this require executive review and approval for a reason.
In all honesty, though, I'm really starting to feel bad for the guy.
Otto Harkaman
09-14-21, 07:26 AM
US Secy of State, Antony Blinken to reassess its ties with Pakistan.
Blinken noted that Pakistan has harboured members of the Taliban before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnuHI-wD41w
Rockstar
09-14-21, 10:54 AM
Harbored Taliban, what does that mean? Pakistan is the home of the Taliban, during Soviet occupation Afghan refugees fled to Pakistan and were schooled there by the Pakistani Tehreek-e-Taliban and then sent back. It’s said the Pakistan ISI is made up of a majority of Tehreek-e-Taliban and Tehreek-e-Taliban sympathizers. The biggest concern for the current Pakistani government now is an internal uprising of the Tehreek-e-Taliban because of the speed by which their own creation overtook Afghanistan.
The west does not consider the Taliban as terrorists at least not officially. Here’s my guess we are probably more apt to support an overthrow of the current Pakistan government and welcome a homegrown Taliban regime. Especially since they seem to like to blow up Chinese visitors to Pakistan.
My only concern with that is what happens with Pakistan Nukes?
I predict that if Pakistan with Afghanistan and perhaps China attack India Nukes will be used.
Markus
Otto Harkaman
09-14-21, 11:42 AM
The World is One News (WION) is an Indian multinational English language news channel headquartered in New Delhi. WION's Anas Mallick asks Taliban on their stand on Kashmir issue | Afghanistan-India Relations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm6vi0PJt0Y
Acting Foreign Minister Amir Muttaqi urges international community to resume aid as Afghanistan faces a looming economic crisis.
https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/000_1PG2IW.jpg
Kabul, Afghanistan – Afghanistan’s acting Foreign Minister Amir Khan Muttaqi has criticised the United States for its actions towards the new Taliban government and for severing economic assistance after the group seized power last month.
In his first address to the media since the Taliban announced its new caretaker government last week, Muttaqi said on Tuesday that the group would not allow “any country” to impose sanctions or embargoes on Afghanistan, including the US.
“[We] helped the US until the evacuation of their last person, but unfortunately, the US, instead of thanking us, froze our assets,” he said.
Since the Taliban took control of the Afghan capital, Kabul on August 15 as former President Ashraf Ghani fled the country, the US Federal Reserve, the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank have cut off Afghanistan’s access to funds, resulting in a widespread liquidity crunch in the cash-dependent economy.
Muttaqi thanked the international community for pledging more than $1bn of aid for Afghanistan at a UN donor conference on Monday.
“We welcome the pledge of emergency aid funding committed to Afghanistan during yesterday’s meeting hosted by the UN in Geneva,” he said.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/9/14/afghanistans-amir-khan-muttaqi-addresses-the-media
Otto Harkaman
09-14-21, 08:42 PM
CGTN - China Global Television Network
How 4 U.S. presidents created today's mess in Afghanistan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVykQCF0A_4
Jimbuna
09-15-21, 11:49 AM
A major row broke out between leaders of the Taliban just days after they set up a new government in Afghanistan, senior Taliban officials told the BBC.
Supporters of two rival factions reportedly brawled at the presidential palace in the capital Kabul.
The argument appeared to centre on who did the most to secure victory over the US, and how power was divided up in the new cabinet.
The Taliban have officially denied the reports.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58560923
Otto Harkaman
08-15-22, 04:09 PM
The day that brought shame on Biden's America: Damning GOP reports reveals how 800 Americans were left behind in bungled Kabul withdrawal - while US-trained Afghan Special Forces had to flee to IRAN (with secrets) because US didn't protect them
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/08/15/21/61408673-0-image-m-29_1660593800010.jpg
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11113757/Biden-administration-Afghanistan-withdrawal-Republican-report.html
Platapus
08-15-22, 04:26 PM
Well if it is in the daily mail, it has to be true. The daily mail can't publish anything that is not true
Otto Harkaman
08-15-22, 04:41 PM
I love the Dailymail :)
White House knocks new GOP report on Afghanistan withdrawal
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3602566-white-house-knocks-new-gop-report-on-afghanistan-withdrawal/
Skybird
08-16-22, 03:57 AM
How 4 U.S. presidents created today's mess in Afghanistan
No, created it was only by one: the first in the line. Without him the others couldn't have continued it and the last one couldn't have ended it.
Hubris. Illusions. Megalomania. One should have left when Bin Laden was dead at the latest.
And yes, it was forseeable. Some people, me inclcuded, warned of defeat as the outcome. Nothing is surprising in the the way it ended, nothing.
Otto Harkaman
08-18-22, 03:41 PM
U.S. military left over $7 billion of military equipment to Taliban, IG report confirms
The inventory left behind in Afghanistan included more than $4 billion worth of armored vehicles
https://www.foxnews.com/world/u-s-military-left-over-7-billion-military-equipment-taliban-ig-report-confirms
Hubris. Illusions. Megalomania.
We're talking about Afghanistan not you Skybird. :up:
Otto Harkaman
08-18-22, 04:43 PM
And yes, it was forseeable. Some people, me inclcuded, warned of defeat as the outcome. Nothing is surprising in the the way it ended, nothing.
Yes I totally agree
Buddahaid
08-18-22, 04:59 PM
U.S. military left over $7 billion of military equipment to Taliban, IG report confirms
The inventory left behind in Afghanistan included more than $4 billion worth of armored vehicles
https://www.foxnews.com/world/u-s-military-left-over-7-billion-military-equipment-taliban-ig-report-confirms
Maybe Trump shouldn't have negotiated a date for withdrawal. Sort of gives the game away.
Maybe Trump shouldn't have negotiated a date for withdrawal. Sort of gives the game away.
Brandon has never had a problem canceling or changing anything that Trump had ordered, so he could definitely have postponed the withdrawal if he had wanted to. Instead he completely ignored the problem, did nothing at all for several months and as a result didn't start preparations until it was far too late. As a result thousands of our people and the Afghani friends who helped us were left behind in mortal danger and the Taliban now possesses several billion dollars of our latest military hardware. None of it had to happen and it wouldn't have under Trump.
Otto Harkaman
09-20-22, 05:17 PM
https://youtu.be/evUsiGzX8Oo
Otto Harkaman
01-24-25, 09:41 AM
https://youtu.be/omjCJWdpWog?si=7u6rHFR2M7CUeqj2
Catfish
01-24-25, 10:08 AM
^ it seems the CIA has been very dumb, or uninformed and incompetent.
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