"Lochinvar" Clyde puffer

[gap]

From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clyde_puffer):

The Clyde puffer is a type of small coal-fired and single-masted cargo ship, built mainly on the Forth and Clyde canal, and which provided a vital supply link around the west coast and Hebrides of Scotland.
Built between 1856 and 1939, these stumpy little steamboats [...] characteristically had bluff bows, crew's quarters with table and cooking stove in the focsle, and a single mast with derrick in front of the large hold. The funnel and ship's wheel stood aft above the engine room, followed by a small captain's cabin in the stern. [...] In 1905 the ship's wheel was still in the open, but later a wheelhouse was added aft of the funnel giving the puffers their distinctive image. Their flat bottom allowed them to beach and unload at low tide, essential to supply remote settlements without suitable piers. Typical cargoes could include coal and furniture, with farm produce and gravel sometimes being brought back.

The puffers developed from the gabbert, small single masted sailing barges which took most of the coasting trade. The original puffer was the Thomas, an iron canal boat of 1856, less than 66 ft (20 m) long to fit in the Forth and Clyde Canal locks, powered by a simple steam engine without a condenser, since as it drew fresh water from the canal there was no need to economise on water use. Once steam had been used by the engine, it was simply exhausted up the funnel in a series of puffs as the piston stroked. As well as the visual sight of a series of steam puffs following the boat, the simple engines made a characteristic puffing sound. By the 1870s similar boats were being adapted for use beyond the canal and fitted with condensers so that they no longer puffed, but the name stuck. Some non-condensing puffers (included those with compound engines) were built until the 1920s when purely canal traffic decreased and the vast majority of coasters had to operate in sea water. A derrick was added to the single mast to lift cargo.

From this basic type of puffer three varieties developed: inside boats continued in use on the Forth and Clyde canal, while shorehead boats extended their range eastwards into the Firth of Forth and westwards as far as the Isle of Bute and from there up the length of Loch Fyne, their length kept at 66 ft (20 m) to use the canal locks. Both these types had a crew of three. Puffers of a third type, the outside boats, were built for the rougher sea routes to the Hebrides islands with a crew of four and the length increased to 88 ft (27 m) still allowing use of the larger locks on the Crinan Canal which cuts across the Kintyre peninsula. There were more than 20 builders in Scotland, mainly on the Forth and Clyde canal at Kirkintilloch and Maryhill, Glasgow.

During World War I these handy little ships showed their worth in servicing warships, and were used at Scapa Flow, and for World War II the Admiralty placed an order in 1939 for steamships on the same design, mostly built in England, with the class name of VIC, standing for "Victualling Inshore Craft".

I have used the plan of a generic Clyde puffer called "Lochinvar" as base of my work:

https://freeshipplans.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/lochinvar.jpg

...and this is the result so far, entirely modelled in Wings3D:

https://i.imgur.com/v6klAk3.png

[Cybermat47]

Looks great! Nice little boat.

[gap]

Looks great! Nice little boat.

Thank you Cybermat,

that will be of the 'shorehead' (66 ft) type. Her game dimensions will be: length - 20.08 m, breadth - 5.55 m, draft 3.68 m, so yes, she will be one of the tiniest boats modelled in game :)

[kapuhy]

Hey, looks great! It could also be used as much better looking "coastal boat" than one currently present in game :up:

And if making it will give you appetite for some more, I have a ton of plans and photos of various cargo ships stashed on my drive that I've collected doing research for my ship pack - mostly smaller sizes, up to 2000 GRT, but also a bunch of larger ones :)

[mkiii]

looking good gap,

[Sonarman]

The Clyde puffer was immortalised in the Para Handy novels of Neil Munro and a 1970's BBC Sitcom loosely based on the books entitled 'the Vital Spark'

https://youtu.be/s9pddFrY4JY

[vdr1981]

Beautiful!:up:

[iambecomelife]

Great job! And nice to see another wings3d user active on the forums. The details are top notch, and the hull cross sections look correct.

In my opinion, small ships like these are needed much more than the big 5,000 - 10,000 tonners - even in WWII, little cargo vessels still made up a lot of the merchant fleet. And too often in SH3/4/5 we see big ships like Liberties operating inshore, where they rarely would have been in real life.

Oh, and the accents in Sonarman's clip are great. :ping:

[gap]

Hey, looks great!

looking good gap,

Beautiful!:up:

Great job!

Thank you for the nice words guys :up:


It could also be used as much better looking "coastal boat" than one currently present in game :up:

Not in place of the stock "coastal boat" but hopefully together when my boat will be finished. :03:


And if making it will give you appetite for some more, I have a ton of plans and photos of various cargo ships stashed on my drive that I've collected doing research for my ship pack - mostly smaller sizes, up to 2000 GRT, but also a bunch of larger ones :)

I have some ship and aircraft plans too, together with many SH-related models whose completion and/or release is still pending: a French lighvessel, some aircraft, several lighthouses, various U-boat equipments, bombs, air torpedoes, depth charges, DC throwers and racks, some German and British coastal defense emplacements, a couple of memorial, a floating mine model by Targor Avelany. This list could is not even complete but you got the idea More than an appetizer I need a doctor to prescribe me a diet and someone to remind me to finish a project before I start the next one lol :D

Out of jokes: let's share our resources and discuss our respective projects. I am sure we can find some common priorities and if more cargo ships are part of those priorities, I will do my part of the job :salute:

The Clyde puffer was immortalised in the Para Handy novels of Neil Munro and a 1970's BBC Sitcom loosely based on the books entitled 'the Vital Spark'

Yes, I have watched some episodes of that sitcom. They have been a great source of inspiration, and their tranchant humour was hilarious even for a non-native Englishe speaker like me :haha:

And nice to see another wings3d user active on the forums.

I am in love with the simplicity of Wings3D. As much as I tell myself that I should get more proficient with more powerful programs like Blender, I always go back to Wings :O:


The details are top notch, and the hull cross sections look correct.

As usual, figuring out details too small to appear clearly on that plan, was probably the hardest part, with the complicated windlass winning the first prize in this case.

Talking about small details, I have a small problem that maybe you or kapuhy can help me with.
From the plan I have used as template, and from several pictures I have seen, it seems that puffers had most of their rudder chain running in the open all the way from boat's wheel to the stern. As you can see from the screenshot below, the chain was not running straight but it formed several angles.
I have tried modelling it as an almost flat geometry with a transparent, seamless chain texture. This is a trick I used for keeping acceptably low the poly count of other models, but in this case it didn't work. Due to the prominent position of that chain on to its changes of orientation, having it as a 2D texture looks really odd.

https://i.imgur.com/WRthLsA.png

For the moment I have opted for a 3D chain. I simplified each chain link as much as possible; it is composed of just 18 vertices and 36 triangles, but there are many of those links, and in total the chain accounts for 2,232 vertices and 4,464 faces. A bit too much for a small detail like that.

Do you guys have any better idea on how I could make that chain to look nice and natural while keeping its poly count under decent limits? Yes, I know, I could scrap it all, and very few naval fans would notice its absence, but being stubborn realism fanatic that I am, I can resolve to adopt such a drastic solution :hmm2:


In my opinion, small ships like these are needed much more than the big 5,000 - 10,000 tonners - even in WWII, little cargo vessels still made up a lot of the merchant fleet. And too often in SH3/4/5 we see big ships like Liberties operating inshore, where they rarely would have been in real life.

I agree. Uboat.net's database of ships damaged/sunk by U-boats is a great resource, and not surprisingly ships under 500 grt are quite common a common entry there. Talking specifically about puffers, we are a bit on the low end: their tonnage is of only about 100 grt and I don't think any of them to have ever been attacked by a WWII U-boat. Yet, they were a common and tvery typical finding around the coasts of England. When I figured out that no other SH modder had ever modellled it, I told myself that something had to be made :D

[kapuhy]

Talking about small details, I have a small problem that maybe you or kapuhy can help me with.
From the plan I have used as template, and from several pictures I have seen, it seems that puffers had most of their rudder chain running in the open all the way from boat's wheel to the stern. As you can see from the screenshot below, the chain was not running straight but it formed several angles.
I have tried modelling it as an almost flat geometry with a transparent, seamless chain texture. This is a trick I used for keeping acceptably low the poly count of other models, but in this case it didn't work. Due to the prominent position of that chain on to its changes of orientation, having it as a 2D texture looks really odd.

For the moment I have opted for a 3D chain. I simplified each chain link as much as possible; it is composed of just 18 vertices and 36 triangles, but there are many of those links, and in total the chain accounts for 2,232 vertices and 4,464 faces. A bit too much for a small detail like that.

Do you guys have any better idea on how I could make that chain to look nice and natural while keeping its poly count under decent limits? Yes, I know, I could scrap it all, and very few naval fans would notice its absence, but being stubborn realism fanatic that I am, I can resolve to adopt such a drastic solution :hmm2:

Lowest possible polycount for 3D chain I came up with was this (12 vertices/24 triangles per link):

https://i.imgur.com/9QaI5JB.png

Other than that, only thing I could think of is leave hanging part of chain as 3D and make the part that is running in the narrow "trench" 2d.

EDIT: Or, make links a bit larger than they should be - not totally realistic but hardly noticeable and it will allow you to cover the distance with fewer links. Also, make sure parts of chain that are not visible (mainly concerning the "trench" part) are removed.

In general, when I was modeling my ships I still didn't know if I will be able to import them as .gr2, so I set the polycount of Taihosan (nice looking .dat ship of circa 15k polys) as "alarm limit" - if any of my ships was reaching that, I'd start to cut details without mercy. Now with gr2 you have LOD model for larger distances so you can afford some more details. According to vdr1981, PB4Y plane model (160k triangles, aka two Queen Mary's) doesn't cause significant lag so the engine apparently can take it.

[Jeff-Groves]

Back sides of the chain links will never be seen. Delete them.
Camera position in Game will not allow a close enough view to see most of it anyway.
Is this to be a GR2 or dat version?

[gap]

Thank you for your good suggestions Maciej and Jeff :salute:

I had not considered "squaring" chain links. Indeed that would enable the saving of 12 triangles per link - 1,488 in total. In terms of aesthetics, I find "pointy" links preferable but that's such a small detail that at the end I might decide to use this trick.

Modelling the lesser visible portions of that chain as 2D objects is an idea I had in mind, probably the best option in terms of poly reduction, but I need to check whether the transition between 2D and 3D links will be too evident.

Removing "back sides" is another idea I had. It might be used on more enclosed portions of the chain as a lesser drastic alternative than making them flat and mapping a simple chain texture on them, but selecting the right faces to be deleted, might be a long and tedious task.


@ Jeff

For now my plan is to import the Lochinvar in game as a GR2 unit, but I don't exclude a later port to the dat format, for SHIII fans to enjoy her too.

Such a conversion might bring some pro's, one of them being that we might bind the same link mesh to multiple nodes with different rotation/position settings. Again, the implementation of this elegant solution would involve some work, but it would be definitely worth all the effort.

Unfortunately multiple bone bindings are not managed by the granny format (or by GR2 Editor) as well as by the dat format and S3d. Another fine solution for exploiting the 'multiple mesh usage' trick might be importing the chain as a separate dat object and linking it to the main GR2 unit via eqp file or merge controller. It wouldn't cast any dynamic shadows, but probably those shadows wouldn't be very noticeable anyway :hmm2:

______

Changing completely of topic I have a new question guys. If memory serves, torpedoes, bombs and guns shells make actual 3D holes on GR2 units that one can see through. Should I model some basic interiors for the upcoming unit?

[Rosomaha]

Greetings, gap, and glad to see you.

I think you absolutely should not bother about this little thing-a chain in 3D execution. (You can make a solid long object with a simple cross-section, and make details-chain links using a texture).
And i will give you an example, i think very suitable, which should convince you of this.
Here is the “Vickers mgun Mk-5 mount” that I was started to make for a Torpedo boat for SH5, the old one, in SH4 that was too rough and simple, I wanted to make it more detailed. In addition, I had to try to adjust the geometry of the game model and its moving parts, the movement of which is simplified under the conditions of the game and based only on the rotation base and traverse of barrel blocks, so that it was most similar to the original and did not cause visual dissonance, because this turret in reality has a rather complex design and motor skills with many moving parts and the movement of articulated structures.. perhaps this adjustment was excessive, because all this turned out to be again inconspicuous in the game.

https://s8.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2020/12/9d7a5bf30710e9be8369c922539c4a6f.png

This is the final view, but before its start assembling it in GR2 and texturing it, it went through the maximum simplification and initially had even more details. But as I later saw the result in the game, the model could be safely-simplified cut back, for example, in these details:


https://s8.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2020/12/1d32ca1b29224dd4171a6bcb26e72738.png

and this is without prejudice to her appearance.. these MachineGun parts are too small.

Well. These are the closest screenshots in the game that I managed to make (with a resolution of 1920x1080):

https://s8.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2020/12/493347fb4f2b5e115c0e3b88d0b23929.png

https://s8.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2020/12/4c346e35003d1dd010d634c70f4f8187.png

Even in optics from a distance of 150-200 m from the submarine details are indistinguishable:

https://s8.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2020/12/9fe4d0631d8dd89bf0fa0c1d90d1f8e2.png

As I did not try to make out the pins of the hinges and other small details-in the game they were indistinguishable and invisible.

The length of your ship (66 ft) length - 20.08 m, the dimensions of Vosper (70-72 ft) length - 22.1 m. Approximately comparable. Look at Vosper and look at Vickers, then look at your ship and the chain – it will be a barely discernible "thread" in the game render. Do you need it made entirely in 3D, the beauty of which can be seen and appreciated only in the exported model in a 3D editor or viewer?
The weight of the entire final Vickers model cost 4070 faces, I think it could be safely reduced to 4000 without losing the visual, having the experience gained. This is a whole anti-aircraft mount that can be reused, for example, on some fairmile-d or others. similar to vosper*s if our develop the mtb shipyard in the game. You have one chain… In general, the choice is yours, gap.

*****
In addition, you can use such details as: a slightly convex door and the contours of the eluminators – you can simply bake them into a high-quality Normal map and Diffuse and remove the 3D details.
*****
If memory serves, torpedoes, bombs and guns shells make actual 3D holes on GR2 units that one can see through. Should I model some basic interiors for the upcoming unit?

For such small units, if they do not break into pieces (hull) - no. Getting a ship's torpedo into such a unit is almost impossible, even if someone wants to spend valuable torpedoes on it. In GR2, a ready-made 3D “Decals”is applied. By the way, on the test of my little Vosper, when firing these Decals appeared rarely, more often it just sank without waiting for them. And most often it was the underwater part. In 1 case of gunfire from 3 somewhere it was possible to notice them.

https://s8.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2020/12/9f88c143ce7707ebedd118f6755068f6.png

And in SH4 " holes” - yes - there is a sense to do the internal content, but the "holes" against the background of such small ships (although, i think, here you need to consider each ship separately, depending on different details: whether there are high large superstructures and how the frame models themselves look, etc. - perhaps in some cases 3d internal frames will look normal when damaged), as far as I remember, were so big that it is better without them, and I did not connect these damages on Vosper in SH-IV. And of course: all of the above is just my opinion. :Kaleun_Salute:

[kapuhy]

Well. These are the closest screenshots in the game that I managed to make (with a resolution of 1920x1080):

Mighty fine job there sir :salute:

Changing completely of topic I have a new question guys. If memory serves, torpedoes, bombs and guns shells make actual 3D holes on GR2 units that one can see through. Should I model some basic interiors for the upcoming unit?

You can do it (GrannyDamageDecals controller that is responsible for 3D holes has an option to assign interior mesh that will be visible through holes), though I don't recall any ship - modded or stock - using this possibility (as well as second option to set the hole shape that shells will tear in a hull - all ships have this field blank and use default holes).

On another note and related to earlier posts about sharing resources and plans - there seem to be several units currently in progress, perhaps (just a thought) we might use a sticky thread in SH5 Mods Workshop somewhat like this:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=97328

Such thread would contain list of WIP units currently being made and perhaps links to resources like plans or models available online in case a newcomer would like to give a try to creating a new unit. Plus, maybe some form of basic guide for importing units as the needed info is currently spread over many multi-page threads.

[gap]

Hi Rosomaha,

thank you for your feedback and glad to se you too. Your torpedo boat looks amazing, I hope her release date is not too far :up:



I think you absolutely should not bother about this little thing-a chain in 3D execution. (You can make a solid long object with a simple cross-section, and make details-chain links using a texture).

That is one of the options I am considering for chain's horizontal sections which, after all, could be seen only from the top. Originally I had tried using a "bill-board" mesh also for the vertical part of that chain, but it is visible from many directions and even from a certain distance the result was quite poor.

The other option I will be considering, is assembling the whole chain as dat object, where the same 3D mesh can be used many times with negligible increase in file size and no increase in poly count :yep:


Do you need it made entirely in 3D, the beauty of which can be seen and appreciated only in the exported model in a 3D editor or viewer?

Well, at some point I might decide uploading my models on Sketchfab or similar website. For this reason and for my own pleasure, my models tend to be slightly more detailed than our game would require.

Once they are finished, cutting down unnecessary detail before game import is a relatively easy process.


In addition, you can use such details as: a slightly convex door and the contours of the eluminators – you can simply bake them into a high-quality Normal map and Diffuse and remove the 3D details.

Yes, good point. Take those 3D doors as "place holders". The will help me drawing the doors in the correct position within the texture and to bake a better AO map, but they are likely to be removed before import in game



For such small units, if they do not break into pieces (hull) - no. Getting a ship's torpedo into such a unit is almost impossible, even if someone wants to spend valuable torpedoes on it...

I do not plan making the hull of such a small boat to break apart, but some sub-parts like mast, cargo hold cover, lifeboat, vent cowls, funnel and maybe portions of the wheelhouse might be destroyable. My only concern about 3D damage decals, is them not to reveal... an emptiness made of air or water where there should be metal.


You can do it (GrannyDamageDecals controller that is responsible for 3D holes has an option to assign interior mesh that will be visible through holes), though I don't recall any ship - modded or stock - using this possibility (as well as second option to set the hole shape that shells will tear in a hull - all ships have this field blank and use default holes).

Wow, I dind't remember that that controller had so many options. During recent gunnery trials I remember having seeing torn metal through the holes made on the hull and on the superstructure of the target ship (one of the stock merchants). Probably vanilla units don't have an interior mesh specified in their GrannyDamageDecals controller because most of them already have basic interior compartments included in their 3D model.


On another note and related to earlier posts about sharing resources and plans - there seem to be several units currently in progress, perhaps (just a thought) we might use a sticky thread in SH5 Mods Workshop somewhat like this:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=97328

Such thread would contain list of WIP units currently being made and perhaps links to resources like plans or models available online in case a newcomer would like to give a try to creating a new unit. Plus, maybe some form of basic guide for importing units as the needed info is currently spread over many multi-page threads.

Good idea, but I suggest extending the scope of such a thread to game-related plans and 3D models in general, what do you think?

[Oby]

Holy smoke, this is fantastic. Gap, Kapuhy, Rosomaha, thanks for your efforts of keeping the game 'above water' and interesting. Incredibly cool.


It is often forgotten how much of a role these small vessels played during the war.

:Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

[kapuhy]

Good idea, but I suggest extending the scope of such a thread to game-related plans and 3D models in general, what do you think?

Game-related as in this game or games in general? First is exactly what I had in mind, second would be a bit off topic for SH5 Mod Workshop forum.

[gap]

Holy smoke, this is fantastic. Gap, Kapuhy, Rosomaha, thanks for your efforts of keeping the game 'above water' and interesting. Incredibly cool.

Thank you too Oby :up:


It is often forgotten how much of a role these small vessels played during the war.

I have no information of Clyde puffers lost due to U-boat attacks, nonetheless those small boats actually played an "official" role in the Battle of the Atlantic since a number of them was requisitioned and impressed in Royal Navy service as engined naval lighters. Moreover, between 1942 and 1945 a class of RN auxiliary vessels, the Victualling Inshore Craft (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victualling_Inshore_Craft) was purpose-built after the plans of two typical puffers.

For more on that, the following website has a list of puffers and VICs with short stories and basic specs:

https://puffersandvics.org/

Game-related as in this game or games in general? First is exactly what I had in mind, second would be a bit off topic for SH5 Mod Workshop forum.

SH-related of course

the possible subcategories that come to my mind are: ships/boats, submarines, aircraft, armaments (guns, mortars, racks, throwers, etc.), ordnance (bombs, depth charges, torpedos, rockets, mines, etc.), U-boat equipment, beacons (lighthouses, day marks, buoys, etc.), buildings and landscape features (ports, towers, churches, bridges, coastal defense emplacements, rocks, etc.)

[kapuhy]

T
SH-related of course

the possible subcategories that come to my mind are: ships/boats, submarines, aircraft, armaments (guns, mortars, racks, throwers, etc.), ordnance (bombs, depth charges, torpedos, rockets, mines, etc.), U-boat equipment, beacons (lighthouses, day marks, buoys, etc.), buildings and landscape features (ports, towers, churches, bridges, coastal defense emplacements, rocks, etc.)

That's exactly what I had in mind, making one place where new or returning modder could find both information on what is currently being done and resources/guides that will be useful in creating new assets (be it ships, planes, equipment or other things).

I'm a little short on time until Christmas, but then I'll try to compile links to resources I've found, and whatever useful hints I've learned on making SH5 units.

[tonschk]

Very nice and well done boat Gap :up::salute:, accurate and detailed thank you very much :salute:

[gap]

That's exactly what I had in mind, making one place where new or returning modder could find both information on what is currently being done and resources/guides that will be useful in creating new assets (be it ships, planes, equipment or other things).

I'm a little short on time until Christmas, but then I'll try to compile links to resources I've found, and whatever useful hints I've learned on making SH5 units.

Okay, in the meanwhile we could prepare an idex of all the SH5-relate 3D stuff in the making, inviting other modders to post their updates there :up:

Very nice and well done boat Gap :up::salute:, accurate and detailed thank you very much :salute:

Thank you too for your encouragement mate :salute:

[Rosomaha]

You can do it (GrannyDamageDecals controller that is responsible for 3D holes has an option to assign interior mesh that will be visible through holes), though I don't recall any ship - modded or stock - using this possibility (as well as second option to set the hole shape that shells will tear in a hull - all ships have this field blank and use default holes).


3d Holes-Decals is always a combination of two models (hole shape + hole model): these are objects from the files: Damage_Object.GR2 + Damage_Room.GR2, and no others.
Just my guess: this functionality was not completed by the SH5 developers as planned. Although, the assumption is that a certain variety of “Holes” was planned for different objects-materials. After all, in the Damages folder there are several more files (eventually useless) besides Damage_Object.GR2 and Damage_Room.GR2. For example, "Decals" for ice, at the same time, Icebergs do not have a controller for "Decals", and as a result, visible holes. If you even add it to .sim, you will see all the same familiar holes from Damage_Object.GR2 and Damage_Room.GR2. It looks like they are hardwired to the controller's operation in grannyloader.dll

Another depressing point that upsets me is that in SH5 3D, the holes on the ships disappear, this always manifests itself in ships with the hull breaking apart, after a critical destruction with breaking. Even in the old SH-4, half of the ships went to the bottom with visible damage that they received and it looked authentic.

[gap]

3d Holes-Decals is always a combination of two models (hole shape + hole model): these are objects from the files: Damage_Object.GR2 + Damage_Room.GR2, and no others.
Just my guess: this functionality was not completed by the SH5 developers as planned. Although, the assumption is that a certain variety of “Holes” was planned for different objects-materials. After all, in the Damages folder there are several more files (eventually useless) besides Damage_Object.GR2 and Damage_Room.GR2. For example, "Decals" for ice, at the same time, Icebergs do not have a controller for "Decals", and as a result, visible holes. If you even add it to .sim, you will see all the same familiar holes from Damage_Object.GR2 and Damage_Room.GR2. It looks like they are hardwired to the controller's operation in grannyloader.dll

Another depressing point that upsets me is that in SH5 3D, the holes on the ships disappear, this always manifests itself in ships with the hull breaking apart, after a critical destruction with breaking. Even in the old SH-4, half of the ships went to the bottom with visible damage that they received and it looked authentic.

I have not the game installed right now, so I can't check the files and settings you are mentioning. I will look closely into them as soon as I install back the game.

In the meanwhile, for uniformity with stock game, I would like to know is: do boats of a size comparable to "my" puffer include any basic 3D compartment as part of the main model? I am not too anxious to add any detailed interior, but I wouldn't like my model to look like an empty paper boat when her hull is damaged by a shell and, rather than metal compartments, you can see sea and sky through the holes :hmm2:

[gap]

Hi guys,

in the past weeks I have been collecting information on WWII-era puffers. I have identified 78 private-owned 20-m puffers and I managed to find funnel colors and house flag used by some of their owners. I would like to add those features, but before I do that I would like to hear from the most knowledgeables on naval history among you (Sailorsteve, Iambecomelife, are you there? :D).

My doubts are:

I know military vessels and ships which sailed in convoys were painted either light grey or with camouflage patterns, but what about small coastal vessels? Were they repainted in plain color as the war approached, or they retained their original paint schemes?

From the little information I have, house flags could be hoisted on the main mast but apparently their usage is not subject to any strict regulation. My question is: how commonly they are used and how realistic would have been for a vessel to fly one in wartime, when it vivid colors could have unnecessarily given up own position to the enemy?

[Muckenberg]

Good day
I have to admit, I'm really looking forward to your ship. i really like your SH5 mods.:Kaleun_Applaud::Kaleun_Applaud:
In my opinion, I would say that as the war continued, all the ships that served for the war effort were disguised. I'd say it was for their own safety.
But of course I can get confused.:Kaleun_Salute:

[Aktungbby]

Hi guys,

in the past weeks I have been collecting information on WWII-era puffers. I have identified 78 private-owned 20-m puffers and I managed to find funnel colors and house flag used by some of their owners. I would like to add those features, but before I do that I would like to hear from the most knowledgeables on naval history among you (Sailorsteve, Iambecomelife, are you there? :D).

My doubts are:

I know military vessels and ships which sailed in convoys were painted either light grey or with camouflage patterns, but what about small coastal vessels? Were they repainted in plain color as the war approached, or they retained their original paint schemes?

From the little information I have, house flags could be hoisted on the main mast but apparently their usage is not subject to any strict regulation. My question is: how commonly they are used and how realistic would have been for a vessel to fly one in wartime, when it vivid colors could have unnecessarily given up own position to the enemy? I don't think they were repainted as they were considered indispensibly expendible and 100 were ordered built: Clearly the keels tended be rust red (I just painted my cousins 40' Two masted steel hull ketch that a year ago-nuthin good goes outta style) https://puffersandvics.org/VIC11%20F&C%20canal%20.jpg https://puffersandvics.org/VIC_index.htm <viewed each on case by case basis In browsing the predominantly black and white photos during or near the end of WWII even the the B/W pics show no attempt at camouflage-the pilot house and stack are different from the black hull and the predominantly rust red keel colors: ie VIC 23 in 1942; just launched: https://puffersandvics.org/VIC231942.gif
That said: the longer 85 ft VIC 63 is described in this photo as still wearing her wartime grey. https://puffersandvics.org/VIC63%20Colonsay.jpg<keel shows shade variation to hull The puffers were typically divided into "shorehead" (or coastal) boats, with a maximum length of 66 ft, and "outside" (sea-going) boats, of 80 ft. The shorehead boats were within the dimensions of the Forth & Clyde Canal sealocks, making it possible for them to enter the inland waterway system, though the outside boats were more suited to the Atlantic conditions off the west coast. Bottom line: the 66.8 Ft ones with safer shorehead 'inshore canal/waterway duty' need no camo; the 85 ft larger ones had wartime gray?? I cannot find any puffer sunk by enemy action...:o:hmmm:

[kapuhy]

I know military vessels and ships which sailed in convoys were painted either light grey or with camouflage patterns, but what about small coastal vessels? Were they repainted in plain color as the war approached, or they retained their original paint schemes?

Well, some time ago when I gathered data to model my coasters I recall finding this:

Peacetime (http://www.clydeships.co.uk/view.php?a1PageSize=75&ship_listPage=17&a1Order=Sorter_name&a1Dir=ASC&a1Page=131&ref=52063&vessel=EARL+SIGURD)

War (https://cfp.muerell.de/products/48)

That's Earl Sigurd, cute Orkney steamer not much larger than puffers. Unfortulately I have no actual photo of wartime version, but according to German modeling site it seems to have been repainted into grey camouflage. Perhaps the site owner could be contacted for sources...

[Aktungbby]

Well, some time ago when I gathered data to model my coasters I recall finding this:

Peacetime (http://www.clydeships.co.uk/view.php?a1PageSize=75&ship_listPage=17&a1Order=Sorter_name&a1Dir=ASC&a1Page=131&ref=52063&vessel=EARL+SIGURD)

War (https://cfp.muerell.de/products/48)

That's Earl Sigurd, cute Orkney steamer not much larger than puffers. Unfortulately I have no actual photo of wartime version, but according to German modeling site it seems to have been repainted into grey camouflage. Perhaps the site owner could be contacted for sources... http://www.clydeships.co.uk/files/201701142007330.EARLSIGURD22051968.jpg:hmmm: https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/263427885958_/SS-Earl-Sigurd-2-plans-Orkney-Steam-Navigation.jpg Model in Gray:http://www.imgbox.de/users/tom2112/Earl_Sigurd/P1020097.JPG although I prefer this one also in navy gray 1942: https://forum.worldofwarships.com/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i.imgur.com/1t4hvAH.png&key=f8f2d17dba812a9e109dd3fd6ce7d12bb9fbffe0ce3911 fc656d214402777e7a

[kapuhy]

In the meanwhile, for uniformity with stock game, I would like to know is: do boats of a size comparable to "my" puffer include any basic 3D compartment as part of the main model? I am not too anxious to add any detailed interior, but I wouldn't like my model to look like an empty paper boat when her hull is damaged by a shell and, rather than metal compartments, you can see sea and sky through the holes :hmm2:

Hi Gap,

Only puffer-sized stock model is Coastal Boat:

https://i.imgur.com/8TgyQeP.png

It doesn't have any interior modeled and does not have cracks / possibility for the hull to split.

I did model simple hull cracks and extremely basic interior in Fairmile, mostly because I had to base it on NRTW (Armed Trawler) template anyway to have enough meshes for twin-screw and twin-rudder vessel - so I figured I can add hull breaking too.

In short, it's your choice but even without interior what you have is way more detailed already than comparably sized stock model.

[iambecomelife]

Hi guys,

in the past weeks I have been collecting information on WWII-era puffers. I have identified 78 private-owned 20-m puffers and I managed to find funnel colors and house flag used by some of their owners. I would like to add those features, but before I do that I would like to hear from the most knowledgeables on naval history among you (Sailorsteve, Iambecomelife, are you there? :D).

My doubts are:

I know military vessels and ships which sailed in convoys were painted either light grey or with camouflage patterns, but what about small coastal vessels? Were they repainted in plain color as the war approached, or they retained their original paint schemes?

From the little information I have, house flags could be hoisted on the main mast but apparently their usage is not subject to any strict regulation. My question is: how commonly they are used and how realistic would have been for a vessel to fly one in wartime, when it vivid colors could have unnecessarily given up own position to the enemy?

I agree with Aktungbby. Certain small coastal ships were less likely to be camo'd than oceangoing freighters, so I think you can get away with having them in civilian colors sometimes. Maybe give them a mix of camo & civilian schemes.

[Aktungbby]

one other factor: most of the VIC's were built and saw Navy service from 1944 to 1946. The Uboat menace was considerably altered past 1943. Additionally the total depth of the smaller vessel is shown as 9 ft. In examining the photos, hull freeboard is approx 6 ft, leaving a draft of 3 feet...hardly a suitable shot for an expensive Nazi 'eel' late in the war. In looking at at uboat sinkings by ship class and type, no VIC's are shown. The best defense for a puffer was literally its designation:...being Inshore. Sometimes too inshore; several puffers are depicted "on the rocks" of the English shoreline.

[gap]

Wow, thank you for your many answers guys, I didn't hope to get that much attention!

For the moment my generic model will represent private-owned puffers. Though built to a similar design, VIC's had some peculiar features, most notably the open wheel. I have found detailed plans for those boats, so they might be the subject of a future mod.

With your suggestions in mind, I have come to the following conclusions:

- Most boats will feature the typical black top/red keel hull paint scheme, with deck and superstructure painted in lighter color and funnel sporting a variety of color combinations, as used by some real ship-owners. Later on, some boats might get an overall grey repaint, but that will be more an exception than the rule.

- Being limited to inshore navigation, most boats won't fly any national ensign. Exceptionally, some boats will sail under the union jack, in which case the flag will be hoisted from a flagstaff at the stern.

- Alternatively to the Red Ensign, or in addition to it, a few boats might fly a mast-top house flag.

- Some rare boats will hoist a jib sail on their forestay

- Early in campaign, a few boats will feature navigation lights and/or illuminated portholes, but soon they will be darkened like te rest of British shipping.

Talking about damage, I won't add any 3D internal compartments, but the following parts will break apart if collided by gun shells or bombs: mast, lifeboat, cargo hold cover, funnel, part of the wheelhouse, propeller, rudder

I have recently finished the UV unwrapping of the model and I am currently working on the ambient occlusion map. The next step will be creating some good diffuse, specular and normal maps.

Stay tuned for screenshots in the next days. :salute:

[Mister_M]

Wow, thank you for your many answers guys, I didn't hope to get that much attention!

For the moment my generic model will represent private-owned puffers. Though built to a similar design, VIC's had some peculiar features, most notably the open wheel. I have found detailed plans for those boats, so they might be the subject of a future mod.

With your suggestions in mind, I have come to the following conclusions:

- Most boats will feature the typical black top/red keel hull paint scheme, with deck and superstructure painted in lighter color and funnel sporting a variety of color combinations, as used by some real ship-owners. Later on, some boats might get an overall grey repaint, but that will be more an exception than the rule.

- Being limited to inshore navigation, most boats won't fly any national ensign. Exceptionally, some boats will sail under the union jack, in which case the flag will be hoisted from a flagstaff at the stern.

- Alternatively to the Red Ensign, or in addition to it, a few boats might fly a mast-top house flag.

- Some rare boats will hoist a jib sail on their forestay

- Early in campaign, a few boats will feature navigation lights and/or illuminated portholes, but soon they will be darkened like te rest of British shipping.

Talking about damage, I won't add any 3D internal compartments, but the following parts will break apart if collided by gun shells or bombs: mast, lifeboat, cargo hold cover, funnel, part of the wheelhouse, propeller, rudder

I have recently finished the UV unwrapping of the model and I am currently working on the ambient occlusion map. The next step will be creating some good diffuse, specular and normal maps.

Stay tuned for screenshots in the next days. :salute:

Cool ! :yeah: Will you also add an ambiant occlusion map ? If you don't see any objection, I would like to convert your ship to SH3 once finished. ;)

[gap]

Cool ! :yeah: Will you also add an ambiant occlusion map ? If you don't see any objection, I would like to convert your ship to SH3 once finished. ;)

Yes, I am working on it. It is a bit tricky because with so many destroyable parts, I can't bake it at once (otherwise when those parts are destroyed we would still see their baked shadow).

No problem for SHIII conversion, it is my understanding that SHIII has only a limited support of AO maps. A possible solutution could be taking only the AO UV projection, and blending AO and diffuse maps in one texture :salute:

[Jeff-Groves]

For SH3? Any AO mapping for a Unit that small is WAY over kill.
I'd bake the shadows to the diffuse texture like stock is done and call it good for SH3.
Other wise your just putting lip stick on a Pig!
That has two effects.
It's still a Pig but now the Pig runs slower.

[kapuhy]

Yes, I am working on it. It is a bit tricky because with so many destroyable parts, I can't bake it at once (otherwise when those parts are destroyed we would still see their baked shadow)

One cheap solution is to bake it at once and then "hand-paint" holes/damage/debris on parts of AO texture that are hidden under destroyable parts :)

[gap]

For SH3? Any AO mapping for a Unit that small is WAY over kill.
I'd bake the shadows to the diffuse texture like stock is done and call it good for SH3.
Other wise your just putting lip stick on a Pig!
That has two effects.
It's still a Pig but now the Pig runs slower.

Good point which might apply to SH5 as well as SHIII

The AO map I am baking is rather large, 2048 x 2048 pixels. I would like the texture to be large enough that boat's name painted on the hull sides can be read. I will check if this level of quality can be attained by blending diffuse and texture maps on the same texture, as you are suggesting, rather than having them mapped on two sets of UV maps, and then I will evaluate which method is lesser expensive in terms of memory usage :salute:

One cheap solution is to bake it at once and then "hand-paint" holes/damage/debris on parts of AO texture that are hidden under destroyable parts :)

Yes, I am doing that too. but there are times that the occluded parts require a more accurate work than what one you can do manually. A trick I am using to spare time, is scaling down the UV projections of parts already baked but included in the AO-baking template because on the shadows they cast of parts which still require their AO baked. This way they will be used for light occlusion simulation, but the shadow rendering will be much faster.

[Jeff-Groves]

Good point which might apply to SH5 as well as SHIII



It is always going to be a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

Today we may do a mod to save on resources?
Next year that is not an issue and We catch flak!

Do what you feel comfortable with at this time.
Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!!!!!!
:salute:

[gap]

It is always going to be a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

Today we may do a mod to save on resources?
Next year that is not an issue and We catch flak!

Do what you feel comfortable with at this time.
Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!!!!!!
:salute:

That's so true Jeff, it is always a matter of compromises.

On one end there is our curiosity of doing new things and our pride to attain an above-average level of detail, even though not many might notice it; on the other end there are our limits of modders and the ever-changing hardware limitations.

Finding the optimal balance among the two extremes is a struggle, and what might be a good compromise today, might not be not so good tomorrow. In case of doubts (and in this field doubts are a common event), my rule of thumbs is: we are always in time to remove a given feature, to simplify a 3D model, to scrap a secondary UV map, or to rescale a texture; the opposite not always apply. Sure, in the process we will have lost hard disc space and a lot of time, but we will have gained experience.

This is my first sea unit modelled from scratch; I have a lot of experience to gain from it, and I am glad to do it having the suggestions of other community members in mind :salute:

[Mister_M]

For SH3? Any AO mapping for a Unit that small is WAY over kill.
I'd bake the shadows to the diffuse texture like stock is done and call it good for SH3.
Other wise your just putting lip stick on a Pig!
That has two effects.
It's still a Pig but now the Pig runs slower.

:k_rofl:

This is my first sea unit modelled from scratch; I have a lot of experience to gain from it, and I am glad to do it having the suggestions of other community members in mind :salute:

Good luck ! :Kaleun_Salute:

[gap]

Good luck ! :Kaleun_Salute:

Thank you mate :salute:

[kapuhy]

https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/263427885958_/SS-Earl-Sigurd-2-plans-Orkney-Steam-Navigation.jpg

If only I had that image enhancing program from Blade Runner movie...

[gap]

If only I had that image enhancing program from Blade Runner movie...

lol :rotfl2:

I thought that boat was already in your own collection of 3D models.

[kapuhy]

lol :rotfl2:

I thought that boat was already in your own collection of 3D models.

I started (but never finished) modeling Earl Thorfinn (a sister ship to Earl Sigurd), but I was basing it on general arrangement plan only (which is why I never finished - hull shape came out weird). The one Aktungbby linked has hull lines...

[gap]

I started (but never finished) modeling Earl Thorfinn (a sister ship to Earl Sigurd), but I was basing it on general arrangement plan only (which is why I never finished - hull shape came out weird). The one Aktungbby linked has hull lines...

Sorry kapuhy,

I switched to "Blade Runner's image enhancing program mode", but this is the best I could do with that poor base:

https://i.imgur.com/gyFJGD9.png

[gap]

As promised, here are some quick renders of the UV-mapped and AO-backed Lochinvar model. I hope you like them guys :salute:

https://i.imgur.com/vWZaHcw.png
https://i.imgur.com/susoTF2.png
https://i.imgur.com/RwG35hh.png


https://i.imgur.com/WIy2vWq.png

https://i.imgur.com/2cEVv7V.png

[kapuhy]

Looks great :up: Especially the bow area is so cool with that winch and all the details around it.

[gap]

Looks great :up: Especially the bow area is so cool with that winch and all the details around it.

The windlass - as well as anchor and rudder chains - was one of the last features I added and probably the most challenging part to be modelled. Unlike other details, it was only drafted on the plan I used as template, so for the most part I had to figure out shapes and proportions from pictures of puffer scale models. It was a little PITA but I hope that the final result, with all the texture maps ready, will be worth all the work.

Talking about textures, I have a couple of questions for you. I am considering whether to blend ambient occlusion and diffuse map in one texture or to keep them separate and to create a second UV projection for diffuse mapping. This is a delicate step: add one new vertex to one of the 3D models (AO or diffuse), peform any operation that alters vertex/face order in the exported obj files, and the AO mapping will be scrabled.

For your small ship models, did you adopt secondary UV channel and, if so, which steps did you follow?

IIRC, you are a Blender user. I use this program mostly for special tasks (in the current model, the sail wind effect was done using Blender), but my main modelling/UV-mapping tool is Wings3D. I have read that, like 3ds Max, Blender is capable of handling multiple UV maps per object. That is indeed the safest way to deal with multiple UV maps, because you are sure that, untile you export them, all the projections apply exactly at the same object, not two copies of the same object.

As far as you know, is Blender capable of importing two or more UV maps from two identical (except for UV coordinates) obj files?

Is it possible to preview the blending of the two textures connected with each UV map directly in Blender?

When you choose to export the model as an obj file, can you choose which one of the UV maps will be exported on file?

[kapuhy]

For your small ship models, did you adopt secondary UV channel and, if so, which steps did you follow?

Step by step, my workflow is:

1) Model the ship and UV-map it for diffuse texture
2) Paint the diffuse texture
3) Merge objects I have into "final" objects that will be exported into game
4) Create second UV channel (yes, Blender does have the option) and make it UV-map for AO texture
5) Bake AO texture on this second uv-channel
6) Export objects into GR2 editor

I never had any problem with vertex order this way.

As far as you know, is Blender capable of importing two or more UV maps from two identical (except for UV coordinates) obj files?

Now, with import I honestly don't know. Only ship I had to import from game was Armed Trawler I was disarming, and I didn't even bother importing second uv map - I simply baked a new AO map for modified ship and exported it to replace the old.

Is it possible to preview the blending of the two textures connected with each UV map directly in Blender?

Maybe, but again - I never had the need to do it so I don't know.

When you choose to export the model as an obj file, can you choose which one of the UV maps will be exported on file?

Yes. In Blender, one of UV maps assigned to selected object is always set as active, and it will be used for obj export. So you export object Whatever.obj, switch to second uv map, and export again changing filename to Whatever_AO.obj.

EDIT: Also regarding uv-mapping in Blender - I use 2.78, which doesn't have the option to see/edit uv map for multiple objects together, but there's an addon called Multiple UV Maps Editing which allows to do just that. In 2.80 from what I hear the option is already added.

[Jeff-Groves]

I explained LONG AGO how to trick TDW's tool to do a strict import.
Why strict? It avoids his routine that adds to the file size!
Totally implemented that routine incorrectly!

Given my troubles when logged in?
I'll not explain it all again at this time.

[gap]

Thank you for your detailed answers kapuhy :salute:

Step by step, my workflow is:

1) Model the ship and UV-map it for diffuse texture
2) Paint the diffuse texture
3) Merge objects I have into "final" objects that will be exported into game
4) Create second UV channel (yes, Blender does have the option) and make it UV-map for AO texture
5) Bake AO texture on this second uv-channel
6) Export objects into GR2 editor

I never had any problem with vertex order this way.

Okay, then I will switch to Blender for creating the second UV map. In my case the AO UV-mapping is already done, so I will have to switch steps 1) and and 4), but I think this is not a problem.


Now, with import I honestly don't know. Only ship I had to import from game was Armed Trawler I was disarming, and I didn't even bother importing second uv map - I simply baked a new AO map for modified ship and exported it to replace the old.

Okay, from what I read in the document below that should be possible, but I will check if/how it works directly in Blender.
I find Blender's interface counterintuitive (or maybe I am just too used to Wings3D's friendliness), so I might get a little while for me to get used to it, but the advantages are definitely worth any little delay.

https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/2.79/editors/uv_image/uv/layout_management.html


Maybe, but again - I never had the need to do it so I don't know.

Not a feature that you can't do without, but I would rather prefer to preview the effect of all the textures of an object directly in the 3D editor, rather than having to wait for GR2 Editor import. :yep:


Yes. In Blender, one of UV maps assigned to selected object is always set as active, and it will be used for obj export. So you export object Whatever.obj, switch to second uv map, and export again changing filename to Whatever_AO.obj.

EDIT: Also regarding uv-mapping in Blender - I use 2.78, which doesn't have the option to see/edit uv map for multiple objects together, but there's an addon called Multiple UV Maps Editing which allows to do just that. In 2.80 from what I hear the option is already added.

Using 2.90.1 here :up:

[gap]

I explained LONG AGO how to trick TDW's tool to do a strict import.
Why strict? It avoids his routine that adds to the file size!
Totally implemented that routine incorrectly!

Given my troubles when logged in?
I'll not explain it all again at this time.

Jeff I am sending you an e-mail :salute:

[Mister_M]

As promised, here are some quick renders of the UV-mapped and AO-backed Lochinvar model. I hope you like them guys :salute:


Gorgeous ! The 3D part is beautiful, except the small davit at the bow which could have a softer curvature...

Else, the shadows are a bit odd. Why aren't they symetrical relative to the Z axis ? Why are there more shadows on the vertical surfaces of the upper parts (sail, cabin, funnel, ventilators, lifeboat and base of the mast) than on the hull ? Why aren't they any dark shadows on the bottom of the hull ?

[gap]

Gorgeous ! The 3D part is beautiful, except the small davit at the bow which could have a softer curvature...

Thank you for your comments Mister_M :salute:

Yes, davit's arc could have been smoother. The same goes for vent's inner part and for many other small details, if you look at them from close enough. At some point one needs to put the word "end" to his projects, and this is the case with my puffer as long as the 3D modelling job is concerned. In future someone else might bring his own improvements to it, and I will be glad to accept them, but by then I hope I will be working on something else :yep:


Else, the shadows are a bit odd. Why aren't they symetrical relative to the Z axis ? Why are there more shadows on the vertical surfaces of the upper parts (sail, cabin, funnel, ventilators, lifeboat and base of the mast) than on the hull ? Why aren't they any dark shadows on the bottom of the hull ?

Three factors should be considered:

1 - The screenshots I posted yesterday were taken in Wings3D. Wings is not a 3D rendering program, so don't expect too much from it. It supports the creation of scenes with various types of lights, but I never messed with them. The one source of light in my screeshots is a standard emispherical lighting which, I think, is aligned with the x axis. That's why one side of the boat looks more illuminated than the other.

2 - For the above reasons, my previews don't feature any dynamic shadow. If you compare the pictures at post #46 with the one at post #1 you will easily realize that, in the screenshots I posted more recently, the shadowing comes mostly from the ambient occlusion map. Considering that, it is logical for objects on the deck - whose exposure to diffuse light is occluded by bulwarks and superstructure - to be darker than hull. In game, this will be balanced by direct sunlight beams and by the dynamic shadows supported by the granny format.

3 - The program I used for AO-map baking is Autodesk Softimage Mod Tool 7.5. This is the free version of the program devs used for the same job in SHIV and SH5. The only manual touch ups I made to the procedural AO map, was subduing by 50% or removing the pre-rendered diffuse shadows cast by breakable model parts, otherwise those darker spots would look odd when the boat is damaged and the objects casting them are ripped away from the main model.

[Mister_M]

The screenshots I posted yesterday were taken in Wings3D. (...) The one source of light in my screeshots is a standard emispherical lighting which, I think, is aligned with the x axis.

1) Ah ok. So there are two "shadowing" parameters involved : ambiant scene light + AO map.

2) Can't you have any preview directly in Autodesk Softimage Mod Tool 7.5 ?

(...) it is logical for objects on the deck - whose exposure to diffuse light is occluded by bulwarks and superstructure - to be darker than hull.

3) Yes sure. But I was not talking about these objects, but mainly about the large vertical surfaces of the cabin which are all grey instead of white like the hull. And about the lifeboat which is far too much dark in my opinion. So if the texture applied to those meshes is white for example, they will appear grey even if directly exposed to the sun light...

The only manual touch ups I made to the procedural AO map, was (...) removing the pre-rendered diffuse shadows cast by breakable model parts, otherwise those darker spots would look odd when the boat is damaged and the objects casting them are ripped away from the main model.

https://i.imgur.com/RwG35hh.png


4) So the life buoy should not be breakable as there is a dedicated shadow for it on the cabin.

5) Other than that, one quick question : what is the sail used for, as there is already a propeller ? I doubt that it's used for propulsion purpose. Maybe for lateral maneuvers ? :hmmm:

[Mister_M]

sorry, duplicated post.....

[kapuhy]

Other than that, one quick question : what is the sail used for, as there is already a propeller ? I doubt that it's used for propulsion purpose. Maybe for lateral maneuvers ? :hmmm:

That, and I guess with some older puffers you want to have backup propulsion in case your ancient steam engine fails.

[Mister_M]

That, and I guess with some older puffers you want to have backup propulsion in case your ancient steam engine fails.

I doubt that this little sail was enough to move such a boat made in iron or steel, with a heavy engine inside.

But also, I see that this sail has a fixed position and it can't be oriented (only a little by fixing the "flying" cable) to one side or the other, so not very useful to navigate...

Edit : I couldn't find any picture of a Clyde puffer with a sail. It was then probably used only in extreme emergency situations...

[gap]

1) Ah ok. So there are two "shadowing" parameters involved : ambiant scene light + AO map.

Yes, more or less.

1 - The AO map contains pre-rendered shadows; think of it as the soft shadows cast by diffuse light.

2 - Surface normals are another important factor which determines the luminosity of a surface; the more parallel a normal is to the direction of incident light, the lighter will be the relative surface.

3 - Normals are also affected by object smoothing; this is the hardness of the edges connecting the triangles that compose a curved surface. By default, edges are considered "soft". That means that the normal of each triangle is averaged with the normals of neighbouring triangles, giving the surface a smooth look with subtle changes of luminosity. Nonetheless, edges can be set to "hard", which means that there will be an abrupt change of luminosity between a triangle and the next ones, and that the edges between adjoining triangles will be well noticeable if their normals point to radically different directions.

4 - Finally we have dynamic shadows: the sharp shadows cast on top of an object when another object is blocking light rays for it.

Off the four factors I summarized above, the effect of the last three is subject to quantity and direction of a directional light source (such as the sun), whereas the the first one is static and it is supposed to simulate ambient (i.e. diffuse) light. In my last previews, you can see the effect of the first three of them but, as I wrote yesterday, the illumination I set in Wings3D was actually a diffuse light coming from one side (like the sun light at dusk). In game, a variety of different illuminations will apply depending on time season, time of the day and weather.


2) Can't you have any preview directly in Autodesk Softimage Mod Tool 7.5 ?

Sure you can, but I don't think the result would much better than in Wings3D. There are specialized 3D rendering programs which simulate materials and realistic light effects, but I never messed with them. A good render might takes hours of of study and of PC calculations. A bit too long for the purposes of a simple previes. I prefer using that time for something else and waiting to see the final result of my work in game :)



3) Yes sure. But I was not talking about these objects, but mainly about the large vertical surfaces of the cabin which are all grey instead of white like the hull. And about the lifeboat which is far too much dark in my opinion. So if the texture applied to those meshes is white for example, they will appear grey even if directly exposed to the sun light...

That's the effect of the AO map. Obviously you are expecting all vertical surfaces to be equally illuminated because you have in mind a light source placed about on top of the boat. Nonetheless you should remember that the AO map simulates the occlusion of ambient light: i.e. light coming from all the directions. Vertical surfaces on deck look darker than the hull because light rays coming from the bottom are partially blocked by the hull itself before they can illuminate those surfaces. Once in game, this effect will be balanced by the top sunlight, and boat's shading will look perfectly natural :yep:


4) So the life buoy should not be breakable as there is a dedicated shadow for it on the cabin.

The shadow was much darker because the lifebuoy is very close to the whelhouse's side. I reduced this effect exactly for the reason that you are mentioning. In game, the AO map is blended to the diffuse texture and the undue shadow will be lesser obvious. It will look like the halo left by a frame on a wall, when you remove it, or so I hope. In any case I have that shadow on a separate layer in a psd file. If the final effect won't be satisfactory, I am always in time to make that shdow even more subtle, or to completely remove it.


5) Other than that, one quick question : what is the sail used for, as there is already a propeller ? I doubt that it's used for propulsion purpose. Maybe for lateral maneuvers ? :hmmm:

Talking in general, a mixed wind/engine propulsion can be used to spare fuel and increase top speed with favourable winds. As I have read, aboard puffers the jib sail was used on occasions. In game, the sail will be set as an optional equipment, so it will be rarely seen.
The plan that this model is based on also features a mainsail, but that was used very rarely (probably in case of emergencies as noted by kapuhy) and I decided not to include it in my model.

[Mister_M]

Thank you for your very detailed, patient and clear explanations. I'm impressed, and happy to learn so many things ! :)

I still have a few comments :

Obviously you are expecting all vertical surfaces to be equally illuminated because you have in mind a light source placed about on top of the boat. Nonetheless you should remember that the AO map simulates the occlusion of ambient light: i.e. light coming from all the directions.

Yes, IMO no light should come from the bottom to create the AO map of a ship. I think that this is not realistic, because in reality you don't have any sun light coming from the bottom, but only very little light reflection by the sea. So, the solution (to avoid "undue" shadow on the cabin) would be to create the AO map on the cabin without the ship's deck occluding the light.

Once in game, this effect will be balanced by the top sunlight, and boat's shading will look perfectly natural :yep:

No, because in game the hull will receive as much sun light as the cabin, so the difference of illumination will be noticeable between hull and cabin (more "AO shadows" on cabin).

Talking in general, a mixed wind/engine propulsion can be used to spare fuel and increase top speed with favourable winds. As I have read, aboard puffers the jib sail was used on occasions. In game, the sail will be set as an optional equipment, so it will be rarely seen. The plan that this model is based on also features a mainsail, but that was used very rarely (probably in case of emergencies as noted by kapuhy) and I decided not to include it in my model.

Ok, I was suspecting something like that. I think it's a good idea to set the sail as an optional element. :up:

[gap]

But also, I see that this sail has a fixed position and it can't be oriented (only a little by fixing the "flying" cable) to one side or the other, so not very useful to navigate...

Obviously you have never been on a sailboat. With that little degree of freedom, a jib sail can make a modern sailboat to move almost against the wind direction :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_into_the_wind

Thank you for your very detailed, patient and clear explanations. I'm impressed, and happy to learn so many things ! :)

My own pleasure :up:


IMO no light should come from the bottom to create the AO map of a ship. I think that this is not realistic, because in reality you don't have any sun light coming from the bottom, but only very little light reflection by the sea. So, the solution (to avoid "undue" shadow on the cabin) would be to create the AO map on the cabin without the ship's deck occluding the light.

Ambient light is not the same as direct sun light. While I will agree with you that the sea bottom won't reflect as much light as atmoshpere and sea surface, I think that for our purposes this difference can be ignored :yep:


No, because in game the hull will receive as much sun light as the cabin, so the difference of illumination will be noticeable between hull and cabin (more "AO shadows" on cabin).

Even supposing that the different diffuse illumination between hull and vertical superstructure surfaces is irrealistic (but I disagree on that):

a) the difference is so slight that under direct sunlight it will be barely noticeable.

b) the hull will be painted mostly in black and red, whereas the superstructure will have a lighter paint. The one thing you will notice once the model is fully textured and imported in game, is that the bottom part of vertical surfaces, near the deck, is slightly darker than upper parts. This effect is totally realistic and it will enhance the sense of threedimensionality.
You are probably used to SHIII ships, most of which lack an AO map. To me, those models look terribly flat, as if they were photographed from far distance during an hazy day :)

[kapuhy]

I explained LONG AGO how to trick TDW's tool to do a strict import.
Why strict? It avoids his routine that adds to the file size!
Totally implemented that routine incorrectly!

Given my troubles when logged in?
I'll not explain it all again at this time.

That's a shame, really - it would be very important information to every SH5 modder (because yes you are right - GR2 Editor loose import does seriously inflate file sizes and it's not a good thing from performance perspective) and despite searching your posts for words like "strict" or "import" I couldn't find the explanation you mention. Hopefully, you'll reconsider and if you do, it should really be stickied or something so it's easy to find for everyone.

[Mister_M]

Obviously you have never been on a sailboat. With that little degree of freedom, a jib sail can make a modern sailboat to move almost against the wind direction :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_into_the_wind

You're right, I would not be able to "drive" a sailboat. :ahoy: But can this puffer be compared to a thin and light sailboat ? And I was not aware of the extra sail that you mentioned in a previous post.

Ambient light is not the same as direct sun light. While I will agree with you that the sea bottom won't reflect as much light as atmoshpere and sea surface, I think that for our purposes this difference can be ignored :yep:

I was not talking about the sea bottom, but about the direction from which may come direct sun light (which obviously can't come from the sea bottom).

[propbeanie]

That's a shame, really - it would be very important information to every SH5 modder (because yes you are right - GR2 Editor loose import does seriously inflate file sizes and it's not a good thing from performance perspective) and despite searching your posts for words like "strict" or "import" I couldn't find the explanation you mention. Hopefully, you'll reconsider and if you do, it should really be stickied or something so it's easy to find for everyone.
Jeff is just saying that his internet service is bad, and re-posting would be difficult. He might be stuck with using his cell fone, or a dial-up connection. The one thing I can find is the discussion in [TEC]GR2 files and Granny Viewer (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1341484#post1341484) Quite a few top-notch modders discuss the issue. I have not browsed through the whole thread, not being an SH5 modder myself, but maybe you'll hopefully find something useful in there? :salute:

[kapuhy]

Jeff is just saying that his internet service is bad, and re-posting would be difficult. He might be stuck with using his cell fone, or a dial-up connection. The one thing I can find is the discussion in [TEC]GR2 files and Granny Viewer (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1341484#post1341484) Quite a few top-notch modders discuss the issue. I have not browsed through the whole thread, not being an SH5 modder myself, but maybe you'll hopefully find something useful in there? :salute:

Oh, in this case I'm sorry for having misunderstood it - I thought Jeff was being angry at having to explain this again (something I could certainly relate to having briefly worked as a teacher in the past :oops:)

[Jeff-Groves]

Yes. I was getting slammed when logged in. Could not post nor PM.
Everything seems back to normal now thank goodness!

:yeah:

As for searching past posts?
Search for Madox58
:03:

Here's the thread with SO MUCH information it blows peoples minds!
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1757906#post1757906

[Aktungbby]

/\ did U get the pic I PM'd? That took an hour of hunting in The Bilge thread.:arrgh!:

[Jeff-Groves]

/\ did U get the pic I PM'd? That took an hour of hunting in The Bilge thread.:arrgh!:

Yep. I got it.
:har::up:

[gap]

A quick update and a couple of pictures for showing you my progress with the puffer model:

https://i.imgur.com/Yk0jJd8.png

https://i.imgur.com/BhicwUP.png

As you can see, I have overlapped some paint on the AO map, similar to stock camo schemes. Still no diffuse/specular/normal maps though, so no surface features yet (bumps, indents, rust, scratches, stains and details to small to be modelled), but at least you get an idea.

I want this unit to be multi-skinned and I am open to your suggestion on some likely paint schemes on a similar boat.

@ Mister_M

Does the shadowing look a bit better with the color added?

[Jeff-Groves]

That, my Friend, is fantastic!
:salute:

I just want a copy of say the hull obj and it's AO obj file.
That would allow completion of Almagest!

[Jeff-Groves]

One thing we need to figure out.

How to animate that sail!
:hmmm:

[gap]

That, my Friend, is fantastic!
:salute:

I just want a copy of say the hull obj and it's AO obj file.
That would allow completion of Almagest!

Thank you Jeff!

Starting from tomorrow I will rush to fulfill your request, now I a bit tired of looking at my PC screen, but maybe while I am working on it I can send you some other models of mine whose AO texture was mapped on a different UV channel than the main skin. What do you think?

[Jeff-Groves]

Thank you Jeff!

Starting from tomorrow I will rush to fulfill your request, now I a bit tired of looking at my PC screen, but maybe while I am working on it I can send you some other models of mine whose AO texture was mapped on a different UV channel than the main skin. What do you think?

That would be greatly accepted!

Your contributions will lead to another Program to assist all modders now and in the future.

[gap]

One thing we need to figure out.

How to animate that sail!
:hmmm:

Yes, I had thought about that too. A key-framed animation could be done in Blender. That would involve importing the sail as dat object, which I am a bit reluctant to do for two reasons:

- the sail wouldn't cast any dynamic shadow on the boat;

- the last time I tried to import an animation with s3d (do you remember the DC-man?), it was a nightmare... :nope:

[Jeff-Groves]

I have insight to GR2 animations.
Not proven but then again? I just proved We can Ghost TDW's program.
:03:

I don't claim to be a Game Master for no reason.

[gap]

@ Jeff

on the topic of animated boat parts, I am planning to make the davit pulley to swing. I only hope that the obj_pendulum controller will work with it as well as it does with bananas in the control room lol :D

[gap]

That would be greatly accepted!

Your contributions will lead to another Program to assist all modders now and in the future.

Okay, let me dig in my HD for them. By the way, it would be okay if I sent you the gr2 file where they were inported (coarse import) rather than the origina obj files?

I have insight to GR2 animations.
Not proven but then again? I just proved We can Ghost TDW's program.
:03:

But then we would need to create a vectorial animation, and I have no idea how to do it...

[Jeff-Groves]

IF you used a loose import? The files are corrupt as I see it.
TDW's loose import really screws the pooch!
Totally wrong way to do it and I did warn him about that YEARS ago!
I prefer untouched obj files as you created them.
That way there are no surprises.

[Jeff-Groves]

Animations?
Well I did tell you how to export them and gave links to the programs to do so.
Nice thing is once exported? One can gain information to edit or create new animations.
:03:

Never tried attaching a dat animation to a GR2 unit myself.
And I was looking and still have that dc-Man stuff. I'll check those again.

I think I see the problem. Will adjust and see what happens.

[kapuhy]

A quick update and a couple of pictures for showing you my progress with the puffer model:

It looks great! In fact, you can forget about creating damage model, no one will dare to destroy such a cute ship.

I want this unit to be multi-skinned and I am open to your suggestion on some likely paint schemes on a similar boat.

One thing to remember if you want it multi-skinned: unless someone finds a way around this, LOD models still don't support multiple textures (unless you plan on doing them separate clone units).

[Jeff-Groves]

Do edits on the AO only and it's multi-skinned.
Don't think the LOD problem is a Game breaker.

[kapuhy]

Do edits on the AO only and it's multi-skinned

How do you do that? So far anything I tried to have multi-skinned units, AO or Diffuse, does not work with LOD models (and I would so gladly make a bunch of colourful skins for my coasters).

[gap]

IF you used a loose import? The files are corrupt as I see it.
TDW's loose import really screws the pooch!
Totally wrong way to do it and I did warn him about that YEARS ago!
I prefer untouched obj files as you created them.
That way there are no surprises.

Yes, I did, but I managed finding at least one multi-UV-mapped model in Wings format that I just exported as two obj files ready for import. You will find them in your e.amail's inbox :up:

Animations?
Well I did tell you how to export them and gave links to the programs to do so.
Nice thing is once exported? One can gain information to edit or create new animations.
:03:

Okay, I will look into that when I finish with the rest of the work on the boat :up:


Never tried attaching a dat animation to a GR2 unit myself.
And I was looking and still have that dc-Man stuff. I'll check those again.

The sail will be an optional equipment. I plan to add it to the main model as any other equipment. In this case, dat or gr2, equipment's format doesn't matter: stock flags are .dat objects and other that the known dat-format limitations, they are rendered just fine.

The other method I see for linking a dat object to a GR2 unit is by merge controller. See how animated torpedo doors are linked to Type VII's hull. In that case the torpedo doors are gr2 objects, but I don't see that wouldn't work with dat parts too.


It looks great! In fact, you can forget about creating damage model, no one will dare to destroy such a cute ship.

I wish all our fellow U-boat commanders were as sweethearted as you, bbut many of them tend to be more aggressive lol :haha:


One thing to remember if you want it multi-skinned: unless someone finds a way around this, LOD models still don't support multiple textures (unless you plan on doing them separate clone units).

That's exactly my plan: one generic version of the boat, plus half a dozen proxy copies, each featuring the funnel colors and the house flag of one real ship owner (Dundee, Perth & London Shipping Co, Richard Irvin & Sons, J. Hay & Sons, McNeill, New Medway Steam Packet Co, Purdy Coal Co.). The copies will be set up for not showing up in the recognition manual - I hope that setting works - so not to spam it with so many copies of the same boat.

Customizing funnel colors will imply each copy having its own version of the AO map, so being at it, why not shuffling the colors of other boat parts as well?

[Mister_M]

https://i.imgur.com/Yk0jJd8.png

https://i.imgur.com/BhicwUP.png

Very nice ! :Kaleun_Applaud:

@ Mister_M
Does the shadowing look a bit better with the color added?

It's no more noticeable on the cabin indeed (mainly because the cabin is not white). But it's still very ugly on the small boat (the below part is full dark grey). It will look odd during sunrise time, when the sun light is nearly horizontal. It's also useless, because when the sun is high in the sky, only ambiant light will apply on the below part (not the sun light), and there is also dynamic shadow which will give full shadow to this part...

[gap]

Very nice ! :Kaleun_Applaud:

Thank you mate :salute:


It's no more noticeable on the cabin indeed (mainly because the cabin is not white). But it's still very ugly on the small boat (the below part is full dark grey). It will look odd during sunrise time, when the sun light is nearly horizontal. It's also useless, because when the sun is high in the sky, only ambiant light will apply on the below part (not the sun light), and there is also dynamic shadow which will give full shadow to this part...

You will tell me when the boat is ready and you will see her in game. Besides SHIII, do you also play SH5?

[Aktungbby]

the pilot house and stack are different from the black hull and the predominantly rust red keel colorsA quick update and a couple of pictures for showing you my progress with the puffer model:

https://i.imgur.com/Yk0jJd8.png

https://i.imgur.com/BhicwUP.png

Well That comes damn close to what I envisaged! Well done Sir!:Kaleun_Salute::arrgh!:

One thing we need to figure out.

How to animate that sail!
:hmmm: As a professional Jibman in my own right, 'animation of the jib' (luffing) is generally frowned upon:O:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=815&pictureid=9484:arrgh!:

[gap]

Well That comes damn close to what I envisaged! Well done Sir!:Kaleun_Salute::arrgh!:

Any other color suggestions, for more variety?


As a professional Jibman in my own right, 'animation of the jib' (luffing) is generally frowned upon:O:

In your typical style you are making an excellent point: a correctly trimmed sail does not flap, so there is little space for its animation :up:

[Aktungbby]

In your typical style you are making an excellent point: One could infer U like: "the cut of my jib"!:arrgh!:

[LesBaker]

In your typical style you are making an excellent point: a correctly trimmed sail does not flap, so there is little space for its animation :up:
If you want an animation for the puffer may i suggest raising the Mainsail?


or have some crew moving about?



Les

[gap]

If you want an animation for the puffer may i suggest raising the Mainsail?


or have some crew moving about?



Les

Crew moving about: planned
Anchor davit's pulley swinging with waves: planned
Steam whistle whistling and puffing: planned
Raising the mainsail: that would be cool but it is more complicated. I can't promise about it, but thank you anyway for the suggestion :salute:

[kapuhy]

Crew moving about: planned

If you (or anyone else) find a way to edit characters (meaning, ability to substitute new meshes/textures or even possibly import animations), please do share how.

I was once (when making coaster pack) considering creating an entire entourage of civilians (passengers, fishermen, merchant officers) to replace the soldiers/navy sailors on civilian/neutral ships, but I couldn't find a way even to access .chr files without which even shuffling about existing meshes to get more combinations was impossible).

Still have my old research though and would still like to give our Kaleuns some pause by having them spot innocent passengers on deck of that fat nice liner :yep:

[gap]

If you (or anyone else) find a way to edit characters (meaning, ability to substitute new meshes/textures or even possibly import animations), please do share how.

I was once (when making coaster pack) considering creating an entire entourage of civilians (passengers, fishermen, merchant officers) to replace the soldiers/navy sailors on civilian/neutral ships, but I couldn't find a way even to access .chr files without which even shuffling about existing meshes to get more combinations was impossible).

Still have my old research though and would still like to give our Kaleuns some pause by having them spot innocent passengers on deck of that fat nice liner :yep:

Hi kapuhy,

I don't think we can create new character parts or new animations with the tools we have currently available, though the program that Jeff was pointing us to a few months ago looks promising.
We can nonetheless:


put together vanilla heads, torsos and legs to create "new" characters;
make those character to wear hats and to hold various items;
apply vanilla animations to them;
make them to move between a custom set of waypoints.


The tools required for performing those tasks are Goblin Editor, notepad and (for waypoint editing) TDW's GR2 Editor.
If memory serves the process is a bit tricky because there is a specific order which must be followed when merging relevant files in Goblin Editor; right now I can't go into details though, as it has been a long time since I last messed with character, and currently I have not even the game installed.
I promise I will write a tutorial as soon as I familiarize again with those files :salute:

[Mister_M]

Steam whistle whistling and puffing: planned

What trigger will you use to make the whistle work ?

[gap]

What trigger will you use to make the whistle work ?

Good question. The first two ideas coming to my mind are:

- a dummy gun, so that the the boat will raise a general alarm on spotting any enemy.

- the controller (right now I don't remember the name) used for triggering heightt-dependant effects, so that the whistle will be used on heavy weather.

None of these triggers are fully satisfactory though. It would be much better if the whistle was triggered by changes of direction if only I could find a way to turn a rudder (even a dummy rudder) into a trigger. If you come up with any better idea, I will gladly take it into consideration.

On a side note, this is the effect that I will probably aim for:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRKC7JUuyGk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2lkM6Xfwrs

[Jeff-Groves]

Interesting concept on a Dummy Rudder.
Let me try a few Ideas.
:hmmm:

[gap]

Interesting concept on a Dummy Rudder.
Let me try a few Ideas.
:hmmm:

That idea has been hanging over my head for a while now, but so far I couldn't find a way to put it to use. How - directly or indirectly - a rudder rotation can be made to spawn an effect? That's the key point. Let me know if you find an answer :salute:

[Mister_M]

You could link the whilstling effect to the fire effect of a (fake) gun provided with (fake) AP shells and (fake) starshells, so that the boat can make noise even if the submarine has not been visually spotted.

Edit 1 : It will be a bit odd if the whistle blows up each time the ship is changing course while cruising...

Edit 2 : Maybe the trigger could be when the boat goes reverse course ? You might control the effect in the ship's .VAL file, depending on the speed (negative...). Same controller as used for bow sprays...

Edit 3 : You might use state machine controllers to control the height of a node depending on the rudder rotation (but I don't know how these controllers work ; they are used for rotating things like submarine's radio antenna & radar ; ask Anvart : https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=223431). If the rudder has turned, then a node comes immediately from -10m to the proper height in order the steam effect is perfectly placed on the whistle (and then you use the height controller to spawn the effect).

[gap]

Hi Mister_M,

thank you for your contribution of ideas, please find my answers below :salute:

You could link the whilstling effect to the fire effect of a (fake) gun provided with (fake) AP shells and (fake) starshells, so that the boat can make noise even if the submarine has not been visually spotted.

AP shells are bugged in SH5. After firing them, guns become stuck at maximum elevation and they can't fire anymore but I suppose that just one alarm would be enough, so yes, that's a nice suggestion.


Edit 1 : It will be a bit odd if the whistle blows up each time the ship is changing course while cruising...

Unless a ship is zigzagging or avoiding a collision (in which case the the whistle alarm would be appropriate), changes of course are not so common. I any case I think we can limit the maximum bumber of whistle blows through particle generator's settings.


Edit 2 : Maybe the trigger could be when the boat goes reverse course ? You might control the effect in the ship's .VAL file, depending on the speed (negative...). Same controller as used for bow sprays...

That's an idea whose feasibility I will check, but I think wakes can only spawn on the sea surface, and I want steam to come out from the whistle, not from boat's stern near the waterline :hmmm:


Edit 3 : You might use state machine controllers to control the height of a node depending on the rudder rotation (but I don't know how these controllers work ; they are used for rotating things like submarine's radio antenna & radar ; ask Anvart : https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=223431). If the rudder has turned, then a node comes immediately from -10m to the proper height in order the steam effect is perfectly placed on the whistle (and then you use the height controller to spawn the effect).

I have not experience with the StateMachine controller. Can any helpful and knowledgeable subsim mate explain how it works?

Else, I had thought about a "dummy rudder" trigger with its y axis tilted and a particle generator node placed on it so that when the rudder turns bone's heigh chenges and steam + whistle sound are generated. I see one problem though.
If the bone is placed near rudder's pivot center, its height variation will be modest; it will be easier for the particle generator to be triggered by waves than by sterring maneuvers. Conversely, if the bone is placed far from the pivot center, even the slightest rudder rotation will determine an appreciable height change, but then controlling where the setam will come out won't be so easy...

[Mister_M]

Hi Mister_M,
Unless a ship is zigzagging or avoiding a collision (in which case the the whistle alarm would be appropriate), changes of course are not so common. I any case I think we can limit the maximum bumber of whistle blows through particle generator's settings.

Maybe I don't understand fully your idea, but the number of effects can be limited by the number of fake shells only. If the effect is triggered by the height of the node, then the effect will be spawned each time that the node is higher than the value specified in the height controller.

I have not experience with the StateMachine controller. Can any helpful and knowledgeable subsim mate explain how it works?

Yes, Anvart (see my previous message) : he created some mods to improve radar's rotation and elevation cynematics for SH3, and he knows very well how it works. :up: You should ask him if the idea is feasible with state machine controllers.

[gap]

Maybe I don't understand fully your idea, but the number of effects can be limited by the number of fake shells only. If the effect is triggered by the height of the node, then the effect will be spawned each time that the node is higher than the value specified in the height controller.

Probably you are right. I was thinking that if we set max number of number of particles low enough, and particle's life long enough, no new "whistle event" could be triggered until the old particles are removed from the game. Anyway the max particle setting setting is a per-particle-generator parameter, so it is well possible that it won't prevent the triggering of a new whistle.



Yes, Anvart (see my previous message) : he created some mods to improve radar's rotation and elevation cynematics for SH3, and he knows very well how it works. :up: You should ask him if the idea is feasible with state machine controllers.

:up:

[Mister_M]

On a side note, this is the effect that I will probably aim for:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRKC7JUuyGk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2lkM6Xfwrs

At 4:55 and 23:57, you have a pretty good sound :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFhsIOGghtM

Also, this ship has several parts in common with yours, in particular chains for turning the rudder (4:25), and the small bow davit.

Anchor davit's pulley swinging with waves: planned

As you can see in this video (18:11), the pulley is fixed, so it can't swing.

[gap]

At 4:55 and 23:57, you have a pretty good sound :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFhsIOGghtM

Excellent sounds, thank you! :yeah:

Still talking about audio FX, could you please help me finding a decent sound loop, or even a clean "live" sound, which can fit a 2 Cyl Steam Compound engine as heard from the outside of the boat?


Also, this ship has several parts in common with yours, in particular chains for turning the rudder (4:25), and the small bow davit.

I see, cool! On an side note, animating those chains when the boat is steering would be very nice, but indeed we are in the field of daydreams; in any case, I doubt we would notice this effect from periscope view lol.


As you can see in this video (18:11), the pulley is fixed, so it can't swing.

What if a lazy crewman forgot to fix that pulley, and I promise he won't repeat the same mistake for my next model?

Subtext: I really want to experiment with the ObjPendulum controller, and I am afraid that boat's bell is too a small detail for being a worthful alternative :D

[gap]

Hi guys, I would like to hear your opinion on the following sounds.

Let's start with a more generic sound. This is a clean audio loop, so minimal work would be required to bring it in game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkhYhhvnxQM

The recording of some real steam engines (the one that I think most appropriate is heard from 00:05 to 00:08; rather short but I think I could extract anyway a loop of decent quality from it):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfFI0ZceBns

Last for now, the sound made by a sailing scale model (but I think it to be the recording of a real steam engine):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eBkQPHEZM4

What do you guys think? :hmm2:

[Jeff-Groves]

I'd check episodes of "The Tales of Para Handy" myself.
Comedic adventures of a Clyde puffer ship.
Check parts of this Vid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdWvodlIs0M

In case you wonder? I started the same Ship years ago for SH3.

[gap]

I'd check episodes of "The Tales of Para Handy" myself.
Comedic adventures of a Clyde puffer ship.
Check parts of this Vid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdWvodlIs0M

Thank you Jeff :up:

Her engine sound doesn't sound too dissimilar from the first sound loop I posted in y previous post.

On a side note, the "Vital Spark" portrayed in that sitcom was in reality the Skylight and her sister, the Starlight, built between 1936 and 1937 by Ferguson Bros, Port Glasgow, for Ross & Marshall's Light Shipping Co, Greenock, and still in their colors when the BBC series was produced

In case you wonder? I started the same Ship years ago for SH3.

Really? What a coincidence! I would be curious to see your own version of the boat. Did you use the same "Lochinvar" drawing as template?

More puffer drawings with hull lines can be found at the following link:
http://forums.airbase.ru/2014/12/t90725--clyde-puffer.html

[Jeff-Groves]

Yes. Same plans.
I lost those files YEARS ago! Like just after GWX 3 was released.
:haha:

[Nickwkr]

The Clyde puffer was immortalised in the Para Handy novels of Neil Munro and a 1970's BBC Sitcom loosely based on the books entitled 'the Vital Spark'

https://youtu.be/s9pddFrY4JY

being from Glasgow i watched this as a kid think capts name was para handy:Kaleun_Cheers:

[Mister_M]

Last for now, the sound made by a sailing scale model (but I think it to be the recording of a real steam engine):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eBkQPHEZM4

No. It's the sound of the engine inside the model... :88)

[gap]

No. It's the sound of the engine inside the model... :88)

Lol yes, initially I thought it was just an electric engine with a recorded steam engine sound playing on top of it, but it is actually a gas-supplied combustion engine. Even funnel smoke is real lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofaYyfeOQp8

[LesBaker]

Still talking about audio FX, could you please help me finding a decent sound loop, or even a clean "live" sound, which can fit a 2 Cyl Steam Compound engine as heard from the outside of the boat?


Here's a good bit of sound 5 mins in.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwHdAWbzX2Q


Les

[gap]

Here's a good bit of sound 5 mins in.

Thank you Les :up:

this is probably the best sound I have heard so far. Extracting a loop from it shouldn't pose much problems.

[Mister_M]

Hello. Ship still not launched ? :Kaleun_Binocular:

[Mister_M]

Maybe we can hope for a nice surprise for Easter (tomorrow) ? :Kaleun_Salivating:

[Aktungbby]

Maybe we can hope for a nice surprise for Easter (tomorrow) ? :Kaleun_Salivating: Hope this'll tide you over!:Kaleun_Salute: https://www.pinterest.com/smmcgee123/clyde-puffers/

[kapuhy]

Maybe we can hope for a nice surprise for Easter (tomorrow) ? :Kaleun_Salivating:

As much as I'd love it too, Rome (and Clyde Puffer models) aren't built in a day.

[gap]

As much as I'd love it too, Rome (and Clyde Puffer models) aren't built in a day.

Hahahaha, true :up:

Sorry guys, recently I have been busy with real life and I have done only little progress with the puffer. I am still working on the diffuse texture. Rivets and welding lines got me busy. I am trying to draw them according to the pictures of Spartan (VIC 18 as built) contained in the link below, but that's not easy due to the inevitable UV-map stretchings around the hull, especially in the stern section :yep:

https://www.nationalhistoricships.org.uk/register/622/spartan

[Mister_M]

Hahahaha, true :up:

Sorry guys, recently I have been busy with real life and I have done only little progress with the puffer. I am still working on the diffuse texture. Rivets and welding lines got me busy. I am trying to draw them according to the pictures of Spartan (VIC 18 as built) contained in the link below, but that's not easy due to the inevitable UV-map stretchings around the hull, especially in the stern section :yep:

https://www.nationalhistoricships.org.uk/register/622/spartan

Hello Gap.

In order to help you to draw the lines at the correct locations on the tga texture, maybe you could create the lines in 3D in order to visualize their exact location on the unwrapped 3D model of the hull. Then, once you've drawn the lines on the texture, you can delete the 3D model of the lines to keep only the original hull.

[Mister_M]

Sad that you didn't find enough motivation to finish this nice project... :cry:

[gap]

Sad that you didn't find enough motivation to finish this nice project... :cry:

The motivation is still there, and I have even made some good progress with the diffuse texturing/UV mapping work. I will post some previews when finished.

What I find it a bit tedious at this stage is that I can't preview the blending of diffuse and AO textures before I import the model into a GR2 file, which is something I want to do at the very last moment when I have finalized textures and UV maps.

I think the game multiplies the AO channel by the diffuse one, but for now I can only guess the final result. Do you guys know if Blender or some other 3D editing program with support for multiple UV maps, is capable of basic texture blending operations?

[kapuhy]

I think the game multiplies the AO channel by the diffuse one, but for now I can only guess the final result. Do you guys know if Blender or some other 3D editing program with support for multiple UV maps, is capable of basic texture blending operations?

In Blender you can bake a "Full Render" texture. I guess if you have Ambient Occlusion enabled and diffuse texture defined and attached to material, this will create effect you are looking for, but I never used this option myself so can't vouch for results.

[gap]

In Blender you can bake a "Full Render" texture. I guess if you have Ambient Occlusion enabled and diffuse texture defined and attached to material, this will create effect you are looking for, but I never used this option myself so can't vouch for results.

thank you for your reply kapuhy, is the the texture "baking" that you are talking about made on screen and in real time, or it requires time and disc space the same AO map baking (and professional 3D renders)?

[gap]

Hello Gap.

In order to help you to draw the lines at the correct locations on the tga texture, maybe you could create the lines in 3D in order to visualize their exact location on the unwrapped 3D model of the hull. Then, once you've drawn the lines on the texture, you can delete the 3D model of the lines to keep only the original hull.

That wouldn't have been a bad idea, but I should drawn the "3d lines" before unwrapping the model, something I don't want to do again.
Apparently makes it possible to paint textures directly on the 3D model, so that you are 100% sure about the outcome. Cool feature, though I suppose one will need a graphic tablet to make the best of it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nht2RoYBUfA

[Mister_M]

That wouldn't have been a bad idea, but I should drawn the "3d lines" before unwrapping the model, something I don't want to do again.
Apparently makes it possible to paint textures directly on the 3D model, so that you are 100% sure about the outcome. Cool feature, though I suppose one will need a graphic tablet to make the best of it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nht2RoYBUfA

Hello Gap,
Can't you just unwrap only the hull again, and not the full model ?

[Mister_M]

Hello Gap ! Did you make any progress ? :ahoy: I hope this good ship is not stuck in the shipyard forever.... :hmph:

[iambecomelife]

Any news on this? Really nice model & skinning work imo..:hmmm:

[Mister_M]

Any news ? :)

[gap]

Any news on this? Really nice model & skinning work imo..:hmmm:

Any news ? :)

Sorry for the late feedback guys,

to be honest I didn't make much progress on the puffer. As you know, the 3D model is finished. From the last update I have only added a few tiny details like bulwark stanchions as well as Kelvin balls and clinometer on the binnacle. Nothing too complicated nor too big in terms of poly count, but I think they add to the realism of the model.

As far as textures are concerned, I have been slowly working on them. I have added rivets and weldings to the diffuse texture, and rust/seaweed to the AO map. I am pretty satisfied with the visual result achieved so far, but I am afraid that building a real boat wouldn't have taken so long lol :oops:

One of the next days I will post some screenshots. Stay tuned guys :salute:

[Aktungbby]

Sorry for the late feedback guys,
I have added rivets and weldings to the diffuse texture,
One of the next days I will post some screenshots. Stay tuned guys :salute:When Einstein hypothisized:"time is an illusion" he had gifted reallife impaired :subsim: modders in mind!!?? :D I'm 'welded' to my computer screen awaiting a riveting puffer post! PS: Check out U-190's "winter camo U-boat mod" thread(s) I managed a small contribution in the historic color dept there too; it pays 2 B a retired history research grad somtimes...:shucks::O:

[Mister_M]

Sorry for the late feedback guys,

to be honest I didn't make much progress on the puffer. As you know, the 3D model is finished. From the last update I have only added a few tiny details like bulwark stanchions as well as Kelvin balls and clinometer on the binnacle. Nothing too complicated nor too big in terms of poly count, but I think they add to the realism of the model.

As far as textures are concerned, I have been slowly working on them. I have added rivets and weldings to the diffuse texture, and rust/seaweed to the AO map. I am pretty satisfied with the visual result achieved so far, but I am afraid that building a real boat wouldn't have taken so long lol :oops:

One of the next days I will post some screenshots. Stay tuned guys :salute:

Good news ! :Kaleun_Smile:

[U-190]

When Einstein hypothisized:"time is an illusion" he had gifted reallife impaired :subsim: modders in mind!!?? :D I'm 'welded' to my computer screen awaiting a riveting puffer post! PS: Check out U-190's "winter camo U-boat mod" thread(s) I managed a small contribution in the historic color dept there too; it pays 2 B a retired history research grad somtimes...:shucks::O:
:D :D :D

[Mister_M]

Files sent by PM. Additional notes :

- To hear the whistle, a new line must be added in Sh3.sdl (data/Sound) :

Ship.Whistle_01
whistle_01.wav

5009

- I've just realised that the smoke funnel effect is not correctly placed, but it should be easy to correct....

- I didn't provide the sound for the flag (not important anyway)

Here a single mission to test :


[Mission]
Title=
MissionType=0
MissionDataType=0
Year=1939
Month=9
Day=1
Hour=11
Minute=0
Fog=0
FogRand=0
Clouds=1
CloudsRand=0
Precip=0
PrecipRand=0
WindHeading=0
WindSpeed=5.000000
WindRand=0
WeatherRndInterval=5
SeaType=0
Briefing=

[Unit 1]
Name=Lochinvar #1
Class=Lochinvar
Type=104
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=1
CargoInt=0
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=false
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-443420.000000
Lat=6725380.000000
Height=0.000000
Heading=100.026001
Speed=7.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 1.Waypoint 1]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-439715.000000
Lat=6724725.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 1.Waypoint 2]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-429135.000000
Lat=6724725.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 1.Waypoint 3]
Speed=0.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-422555.000000
Lat=6723395.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 2]
Name=Lochinvar #2
Class=Lochinvar
Type=104
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=1
CargoInt=0
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=false
DockedShip=false
Loadout=coal
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-445085.000000
Lat=6725145.000000
Height=0.000000
Heading=214.574005
Speed=7.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 2.Waypoint 1]
Speed=0.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-446105.000000
Lat=6723665.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3]
Name=Lochinvar #3
Class=Lochinvar
Type=104
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=1
CargoInt=0
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=false
DockedShip=false
Loadout=stones
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-575845.000000
Lat=6716935.000000
Height=0.000000
Heading=267.273987
Speed=7.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 3.Waypoint 1]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-579310.000000
Lat=6716770.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 2]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-583775.000000
Lat=6715905.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 3]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-587265.000000
Lat=6713455.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 4]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-590015.000000
Lat=6707155.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 5]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-594165.000000
Lat=6695205.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 6]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-599465.000000
Lat=6686005.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 7]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-605415.000000
Lat=6684455.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 8]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-623065.000000
Lat=6691955.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 9]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-638815.000000
Lat=6701005.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 10]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-644615.000000
Lat=6707505.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 11]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-643415.000000
Lat=6719005.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 12]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-637815.000000
Lat=6725205.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 13]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-630615.000000
Lat=6731205.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 14]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-627015.000000
Lat=6734855.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 15]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-624735.000000
Lat=6737245.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 16]
Speed=0.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-622685.000000
Lat=6738285.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 4]
Name=BR Trawler#2
Class=FishingBoat2
Type=104
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=1
CargoInt=0
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=false
DockedShip=true
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451201
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-440940.000000
Lat=6723240.000000
Height=0.000000
Heading=270.000000
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 5]
Name=Lochinvar #4
Class=Lochinvar
Type=104
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=1
CargoInt=0
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=false
DockedShip=true
Loadout=gravel
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-440940.000000
Lat=6723223.000000
Height=0.000000
Heading=270.000000
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 6]
Name=BR Fishing Boat#2
Class=FishingBoat
Type=104
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=1
CargoInt=0
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
DockedShip=true
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451201
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-440940.000000
Lat=6723257.000000
Height=0.000000
Heading=270.000000
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 7]
Name=Glasgow
Class=NavalBase
Type=407
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-528100.000000
Lat=6705950.000000
Height=10.500000
Heading=0.000000
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 8]
Name=Edimbourg
Class=NavalBase
Type=407
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-383650.000000
Lat=6716700.000000
Height=21.000000
Heading=0.000000
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 9]
Name=Type IIA#1
Class=SSTypeIIA
Type=200
Origin=German
Side=0
Commander=1
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=false
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19440807
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-575710.000000
Lat=6716960.000000
Height=0.000000
Heading=267.709351
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 9.Waypoint 1]
Speed=0.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-576210.000000
Lat=6716940.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 10]
Name=Isle of Bute
Class=NavalBase
Type=407
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-605715.000000
Lat=6693455.000000
Height=70.199997
Heading=0.000000
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 11]
Name=Firth of Clyde
Class=NavalBase
Type=407
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-590965.000000
Lat=6669255.000000
Height=-109.775002
Heading=0.000000
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 12]
Name=Loch Fyne
Class=NavalBase
Type=407
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-632665.000000
Lat=6730655.000000
Height=-17.000000
Heading=0.000000
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 13]
Name=Bo'ness
Class=NavalBase
Type=407
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-435635.000000
Lat=6721905.000000
Height=26.299999
Heading=0.000000
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 14]
Name=Crinan
Class=NavalBase
Type=407
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-667075.000000
Lat=6731285.000000
Height=-4.349999
Heading=0.000000
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 15]
Name=Lochinvar #5
Class=Lochinvar
Type=104
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=1
CargoInt=0
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=false
DockedShip=true
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-575728.000000
Lat=6716987.000000
Height=0.000000
Heading=245.647003
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 15.Waypoint 1]
Speed=0.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-575823.000000
Lat=6716944.000000
Height=0.000000

[EditorParams]
InitLongOff=-11097000.000000
InitLatOff=8604000.000000
ZoomIndex=0

[gap]

Files sent by PM. Additional notes :

- To hear the whistle, a new line must be added in Sh3.sdl (data/Sound) :

Ship.Whistle_01
whistle_01.wav

5009

- I've just realised that the smoke funnel effect is not correctly placed, but it should be easy to correct....

- I didn't provide the sound for the flag (not important anyway)

Here a single mission to test :


[Mission]
Title=
MissionType=0
MissionDataType=0
Year=1939
Month=9
Day=1
Hour=11
Minute=0
Fog=0
FogRand=0
Clouds=1
CloudsRand=0
Precip=0
PrecipRand=0
WindHeading=0
WindSpeed=5.000000
WindRand=0
WeatherRndInterval=5
SeaType=0
Briefing=

[Unit 1]
Name=Lochinvar #1
Class=Lochinvar
Type=104
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=1
CargoInt=0
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=false
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-443420.000000
Lat=6725380.000000
Height=0.000000
Heading=100.026001
Speed=7.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 1.Waypoint 1]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-439715.000000
Lat=6724725.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 1.Waypoint 2]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-429135.000000
Lat=6724725.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 1.Waypoint 3]
Speed=0.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-422555.000000
Lat=6723395.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 2]
Name=Lochinvar #2
Class=Lochinvar
Type=104
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=1
CargoInt=0
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=false
DockedShip=false
Loadout=coal
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-445085.000000
Lat=6725145.000000
Height=0.000000
Heading=214.574005
Speed=7.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 2.Waypoint 1]
Speed=0.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-446105.000000
Lat=6723665.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3]
Name=Lochinvar #3
Class=Lochinvar
Type=104
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=1
CargoInt=0
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=false
DockedShip=false
Loadout=stones
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-575845.000000
Lat=6716935.000000
Height=0.000000
Heading=267.273987
Speed=7.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 3.Waypoint 1]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-579310.000000
Lat=6716770.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 2]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-583775.000000
Lat=6715905.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 3]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-587265.000000
Lat=6713455.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 4]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-590015.000000
Lat=6707155.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 5]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-594165.000000
Lat=6695205.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 6]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-599465.000000
Lat=6686005.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 7]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-605415.000000
Lat=6684455.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 8]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-623065.000000
Lat=6691955.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 9]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-638815.000000
Lat=6701005.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 10]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-644615.000000
Lat=6707505.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 11]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-643415.000000
Lat=6719005.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 12]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-637815.000000
Lat=6725205.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 13]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-630615.000000
Lat=6731205.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 14]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-627015.000000
Lat=6734855.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 15]
Speed=7.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-624735.000000
Lat=6737245.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 3.Waypoint 16]
Speed=0.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-622685.000000
Lat=6738285.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 4]
Name=BR Trawler#2
Class=FishingBoat2
Type=104
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=1
CargoInt=0
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=false
DockedShip=true
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451201
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-440940.000000
Lat=6723240.000000
Height=0.000000
Heading=270.000000
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 5]
Name=Lochinvar #4
Class=Lochinvar
Type=104
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=1
CargoInt=0
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=false
DockedShip=true
Loadout=gravel
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-440940.000000
Lat=6723223.000000
Height=0.000000
Heading=270.000000
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 6]
Name=BR Fishing Boat#2
Class=FishingBoat
Type=104
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=1
CargoInt=0
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
DockedShip=true
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451201
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-440940.000000
Lat=6723257.000000
Height=0.000000
Heading=270.000000
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 7]
Name=Glasgow
Class=NavalBase
Type=407
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-528100.000000
Lat=6705950.000000
Height=10.500000
Heading=0.000000
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 8]
Name=Edimbourg
Class=NavalBase
Type=407
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-383650.000000
Lat=6716700.000000
Height=21.000000
Heading=0.000000
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 9]
Name=Type IIA#1
Class=SSTypeIIA
Type=200
Origin=German
Side=0
Commander=1
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=false
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19440807
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-575710.000000
Lat=6716960.000000
Height=0.000000
Heading=267.709351
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 9.Waypoint 1]
Speed=0.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-576210.000000
Lat=6716940.000000
Height=0.000000

[Unit 10]
Name=Isle of Bute
Class=NavalBase
Type=407
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-605715.000000
Lat=6693455.000000
Height=70.199997
Heading=0.000000
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 11]
Name=Firth of Clyde
Class=NavalBase
Type=407
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-590965.000000
Lat=6669255.000000
Height=-109.775002
Heading=0.000000
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 12]
Name=Loch Fyne
Class=NavalBase
Type=407
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-632665.000000
Lat=6730655.000000
Height=-17.000000
Heading=0.000000
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 13]
Name=Bo'ness
Class=NavalBase
Type=407
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-435635.000000
Lat=6721905.000000
Height=26.299999
Heading=0.000000
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 14]
Name=Crinan
Class=NavalBase
Type=407
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=true
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-667075.000000
Lat=6731285.000000
Height=-4.349999
Heading=0.000000
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 15]
Name=Lochinvar #5
Class=Lochinvar
Type=104
Origin=British
Side=0
Commander=0
CargoExt=1
CargoInt=0
CfgDate=19380101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=false
DockedShip=true
GameEntryDate=19380101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=-575728.000000
Lat=6716987.000000
Height=0.000000
Heading=245.647003
Speed=0.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0

[Unit 15.Waypoint 1]
Speed=0.000000
Radius=0.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-575823.000000
Lat=6716944.000000
Height=0.000000

[EditorParams]
InitLongOff=-11097000.000000
InitLatOff=8604000.000000
ZoomIndex=0

Thank you Mister_M. Check your inbox please :salute:

[tonschk]

One of the next days I will post some screenshots. Stay tuned guys :salute:


Thank you Gap :yeah::salute::up:

[Mister_M]

@gap : In case you missed it : https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2790718&postcount=24

[gap]

@gap : In case you missed it : https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2790718&postcount=24

Thank you, reading that thread :up: :salute: