The Little Ships of SH5 - Coaster Pack

[kapuhy]

Download links:

Vanilla version, for non TWoS users: STOCK FULL VERSION (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=5626)

NEW Little Ships 1.1 - for TWoS 2.2.25 users: LITTLE SHIPS 1.1 (https://www.mediafire.com/file/v6atcjm02rqwdce/Little_Ships_1.1_for_TWoS_2225.rar/file)

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LITTLE SHIPS 1.1:

This mod is an expansion of The Little Ships of SH5, made for users of TWoS 2.2.25. Since original Little Ships is already included in lates version of TWoS, you don't have to install it - instead, enable this expansion through JGSME within your TWoS_Parts folder.

Little Ships 1.1 brings additional six ships: two coasters, two small ocean-going merchants and two minesweepers. Other improvements include new, historically correct weapons for Fairmile Motor Launch (3pdr gun and depth charge chutes with very limited ammo), as well as further expansion of coastal traffic network modeled by vdr1981 in TWoS.

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STOCK VERSION:
This mod adds 5 new coastal ships and one ASW patrol boat (it also includes coaster I've relased separately earlier). All ships are done in .gr2 format, with visible 3d damage and except for Small Motor Coaster and Small Coastal Tanker - with breakable hulls. Stock version is configured to work with unmodded SH5 - do not install it if you use TWoS megamod.

Ships list:

1. Small Motor Coaster:

https://i.imgur.com/yb0TdGQ.jpg

I relased this ship earlier and it already was added to TwoS, but I include it in this download for completeness – compared to TwoS version, only minor changes to damage model have been made.

Small Motor Coaster is based on unnamed set of plans, probably of Dutch coastal merchant "Baltic" (http://vervlogentijden.blogspot.com/2017/10/elke-dag-een-nederlands-schip-uit-het_32.html) built in 1940. Motor powered, with maximum speed of 8.5 knots and 250 GRT tonnage, this small vessel represents very common type of coastal ship mainly built in Netherlands in interwar period and still very popular after the war. Crews of these ships often included owner's family to cut costs, and small size allowed for going up rivers while still being seaworthy enough for open sea trade.

Four different textures are included, giving it some more variety.

2. Small Coastal Tanker:

https://i.imgur.com/Fp0HN4i.jpg

Based on British National Benzole Company ships – "Ben Harold Smith" (http://freeshipplans.com/free-model-ship-plans/ben-harold-smith-coastal-tanker/) built in 1952 and "Ben Sadler" (http://www.historicalrfa.org/requisitioned-auxiliaries/161-requisitioned-auxiliaries-b/817-requisitioned-auxiliary-ben-sadler) built in 1931, its a little motor powered tanker. Its main uses were delivering fuel to small ports that couldn't be entered by larger ships, as well as supplying ocean-going ships anchored in harbours. During the war, some were requisitioned by the navy to support naval operations and landings. Max speed of this vessel is 9 knots and its tonnage 325 GRT.

3. Old Coaster

https://i.imgur.com/zsramF2.jpg

This might be oldest ship in SH5 – it's based on unusually shaped (designed to fit locks on Eider canal) 264 GRT German steamer "Kanal" (http://wefalck.eu/mm/maritime/models/kanal/kanal.html) which was built in 1886 and served as livestock carrier until 1909 when its cargo stampeded towards one of the sides, capsizing her. Its appearance in SH5 is still plausible though, as some late XIX-century coasters had very long service life and were still travelling along many coasts in 1939.

4. Large Fishing Trawler

https://i.imgur.com/iwSD0sI.jpg

It's a bit weird that while stock SH5 has beautiful Armed Trawler model, it lacks any actual trawler. To fix this, I "demilitarized" Armed Trawler removing all military superstructure and repainting it into common civilian "red bottom, black hull, white superstructure" paint scheme. At 1100 GRT, this is remarkably large ship for a fishing vessel, hence the name. It can still be armed – in late war, it will have some 20-40 mm guns for self defense as most Allied merchants did carry some kind of armament at this point.

5. Fairmile "B" Motor Launch:

https://i.imgur.com/5vHTDpM.jpg

Although relatively unknown, this 85-ton patrol boat was actually the most numerous ASW ship in WW2. Simple wooden hull that was built in parts by dispersed small companies allowed for mass production - before the war ended, Fairmile served in 10 different navies and was produced in several countries. Many variants of this ship were made, from ASW through rescue to torpedo boat – I only modeled most common ASW variant for now but hopefully I can add some other versions in future updates.

Despite small size, Fairmile is a dangerous enemy – it's as hard to detect and hit as Elco, but carries Y-Gun, ASDIC and later radar, so unlike Elco it's a capable ASW vessel. On surface, it can turn your boat into scrap with mix of Oerlikons. Its weak points are its fragility and limited amount of DC's.

6. Coastal Tanker

https://i.imgur.com/A16lX78.jpg

613 GRT Coastal Tanker is based on historic American tanker Mary A. Whalen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_A._Whalen_(tanker)), built in 1938. She survives to this day in Red Hook, Brooklyn, crewed and maintained by members of PortSide NewYork (https://portsidenewyork.org/). Mary has became famous after her 1968 grounding, which led to court case shaping modern US maritime law.

In game, she'll be seen carrying fuel on coastal trading lanes (only British, American and
Norwegian in this version). From 1943 onwards, she can be armed with some machine guns.

7. Raised Quarterdecker

https://i.imgur.com/0yQB6Zy.jpg

Most common coaster design in late 19th and early 20th century, Raised Quarterdecker design was
the result of moving ship's engine aft to simplify machinery (shorter propeller shaft) and free cargo
space. This made stern heavier, so to compensate ship's aft deck (quarterdeck) was raised.

My example is modeled after 1921 Dublin-built steamer Moygannon of 545 tons. The ship survived
till 1940, when – due to navigational error – it crossed the path of outbound Atlantic convoy in
dense fog and sunk in collision with Danish steamer (making her sort-of U-Boat victim, as collision
would probably not happen if both ships weren't sailing darkened because of war).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I still have several models of larger ships I plan to add to this mod in future updates (in this case "larger" means between 500-1600 GRT, these are still coastal vessels):

https://i.imgur.com/V7XZ2ll.jpg

At the same time, I'll be also improving already relased ships - especially the Fairmile which still doesn't have its historically correct armament added (low-ammo DC racks and WW1-vintage 3-pounder deck gun). Another improvement I'm working on is lights for neutral versions and additional textures for more variety. So, this pack is far from final version :)

Should you find any bugs, please post them here and I'll try to fix them. I could not properly test ships in campaign (as this would require actually playing the career and hunting them down...), hopefully they will appear as planned.

And last but not least: Big, big thanks to:

Gap, Jeff Groves and Rosomaha: for invaluable advice, and lots of patience – without you I'd get hopelessly stuck along the way and never relase anything.
vdr1981: for the Wolves of Steel mod, only reason SH5 stayed on my PC long enough for me to even start modding it.
Sailor Steve: for inspiration - the idea to create coaster pack was born after reading your post (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom//showpost.php?p=2506009&postcount=4) in "what ships would you like to see in upcoming Wolfpack game" thread. This was the first time I've seen the word "coaster". I looked it up and before I knew it I was fascinated by these small ships.

[Texas Red]

Holy cow man these look amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :yeah::Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

I will give it a try!

Thanks for the hard work!

[vdr1981]

Really great work Kapuhy! Thank you very much! :up::up::up:

[skin-nl]

Great work Kapuhy :salute:
Downloaded and testing this weekend.

[Demon777]

beautiful ships! good job :up:

[Jeff-Groves]

Very nice work Mate!
And Thank You for the mention.
:salute:

[vdr1981]

I just want to let you know Kapuhy that your new ship pack has revealed for me few hidden problems in some previously imported TWoS v2.2.19 units.

I have already solved the problem and updated existing v2.2.19 installer and the update but I will officially announce the changes in the next update...:yep:


Namely, several dat imported units (recently added type XIV sub, Japanese subchaser and probably Modern Cargo Ship) had few remaining old SH3 controllers which could (from some reason) clash with your files and cause CTD when rendered in the same playing session.


As I said , the problem is now solved and it can be avoided for current TWoS v2.2.19 users simply by re downloading and applying v2.2.xx to v2.2.19 update again. :yep:


Once again, great work and thank you! :salute:

[Rosomaha]

Looks very great! :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:

[Pascal]

Which more than justifies 5 stars!

[skin-nl]

I have already solved the problem and updated existing v2.2.19 installer.

Do i still need to install the Little_ships_v_1_0_TWOS_2_2_19_fix?

Michael

[kapuhy]

Do i still need to install the Little_ships_v_1_0_TWOS_2_2_19_fix?

Michael

If you use TWoS, yes - this file is not for fixing conflict vdr1981 mentioned, but to add to my ships features that only work with TWoS (custom TWoS damage zones and roster/group entries for countries and groups that do not exist in stock game).

[skin-nl]

Thanks Kapuhy :salute:

[iambecomelife]

All of the ships look excellent. :up: the details are very well made.

Also, I've noticed that even many professional game designers tend to get the proportions of ship's parts wrong - here everything looks properly sized. :)

And that's an unfortunate story about the "Kanal", I guess it shows all the weird things that can go wrong when you are on the water....!

[vdr1981]

I need a small advice Kapuhy.
Do you know will any of of ship/effects functionality will be lost if I change "unknown" class settings to "none" in fx files?

I'm asking this because I've noticed that the only way to add new version of Rosomaha's C3 ship to TWoS is to do previously mentioned tweak in your new small ships files...

[kapuhy]

I need a small advice Kapuhy.
Do you know will any of of ship/effects functionality will be lost if I change "unknown" class settings to "none" in fx files?

I'm asking this because I've noticed that the only way to add new version of Rosomaha's C3 ship to TWoS is to do previously mentioned tweak in your new small ships files...

I didn't try to do that, but only thing I imagine might be affected is SH5-style fireworks.

As far as I understand them (someone correct me on this if I got it wrong) fx files are responsible for SH5 fires/explosions. Each hull part has one huge SH5 style damage zone, nodes in FX gr2 file govern where an effect will play and I guess what kind of effect will play is decided by whatever follows "ObjectCtrlsRef@" in text fx file.

Since I relased the pack before I learned how to move the fx bones (the trick, it appears, was to change one line in Shipname.1st file...), I disabled most of the SH5 effects anyway, except for those that coincidentally were in right places despite hull shape change. Only exception is Large Fishing Trawler - since in this case ship shape didn't change much I kept most effects from original.

From my tests before, ships will function just fine even if you outright delete all fx related stuff - including breaking up, that is not dependant on fx file as well. They will just have less fires and explosions while sinking.

[Rosomaha]

...I'm asking this because I've noticed that the only way to add new version of Rosomaha's C3 ship to TWoS is to do previously mentioned tweak in your new small ships files...
Hi, captains.
I didn't understand what is the connection between C3 and Little Ships of SH5. Why is it necessary to change something in kapuhy ships because of C3? Can someone explain in more detail?

[vdr1981]

Hi, captains.
I didn't understand what is the connection between C3 and Little Ships of SH5. Why is it necessary to change something in kapuhy ships because of C3? Can someone explain in more detail?
That's the million dollars question Rosomaha which no one can answer right now I'm afraid.

What I noticed is that sometimes introduction of units "A" and "B" will reveal problems in unit "G" which will result in game CTD, but only if other units C, D, E and F are rendered in between, simulating one long patrol where you encounter many different units. To make things more complicated , units A, B and G will work just fine and won't reveal any problems.

The exact cause of this SH5 engine "witchcrafts" are unknown to me but at least I learned how to isolate and fix them for most of the time, using my "start in Kiel+all units museum rendering test", moving in different directions and observing on which unit the game will CTD.

[Rosomaha]

:hmmm: Ok. And what is the story with "... unknown" class settings to "none" in fx files?

And. I understood correctly: the old version of the C3 pack works stably in TwoS, and the new one causes problems?
Did you happen to find out which file is the problem?

---------------
if it helps, I will confirm kapuhy's answer:

In the shipname.fx contains a list of destruction effects - “ObjectCtrlsRef "conrollers, whose” Object" contains the FX effect ID, which are located in \data\Library\Baza_FX.dat. The "ObjectCtrlsRef" itself is linked via ID to the effect locations-point in the <shipname>_FX.GR2 file. If put None in GoblinEditor, it is equal to assigning a Null ID-dummy.

Besides: The ship / unit starts using SH5 effects, if there are EffectsTypeSH5 zones, provided that the file <shipname>.lst is present in the unit folder with the corresponding registration of the path to <shipname>_FX.GR2. Without it, there will only be their own Box effects, more exactly those Types that have their own prescribed effect in Zones.cfg.

[vdr1981]

And. I understood correctly: the old version of the C3 pack works stably in TwoS, and the new one causes problems?
Did you happen to find out which file is the problem?

---------------


Your new C3 files are perfectly fine but they have "unlocked" several of these mysterious conflicts in some NDD fx files, including some from the stock game (?!) which aren't touched by any modder ever. :o

Add too many of these conflicts to the stock game and you guys can now get the picture why every SH5 custom modlist which includes OHII, FX update and several other "heavy" mods is nothing but a CTD fest...:yep:

Anyway, I have re-saved ALL fx files of all units (stock and imported, changed one line to "none" in order to make controllers "red" and than save, from some reason this is important for SH5) for the next TWoS update and that have cured all the problem...:yep:

[Rosomaha]

I need a small advice Kapuhy.
Do you know will any of of ship/effects functionality will be lost if I change "unknown" class settings to "none" in fx files?

I think I'm beginning to guess what you're talking about ... at the editorial office .fx files in GoblinEditor in addition to merging key files, you need to restore the communication to the effects file. I.e., perform a "Merge” of open fx files with Baza_FX. dat. in this case, “unknown " will get their names in the list of the program window, they are available for selection, and will even be visible in the view. if the communication ("Merge”) is not set, changes to one conroller can reset all other values to Null – Yes, if I remember correctly this could happen… if of course we are talking about the same phenomenon. :hmmm:

[Rosomaha]

Your new C3 files are perfectly fine but they have "unlocked" several of these mysterious conflicts in some NDD fx files, including some from the stock game (?!) which aren't touched by any modder ever. :o

Add too many of these conflicts to the stock game and you guys can now get the picture why every SH5 custom modlist which includes OHII, FX update and several other "heavy" mods is nothing but a CTD fest...:yep:

Anyway, I have re-saved ALL fx files of all units (stock and imported, changed one line to "none" in order to make controllers "red" and than save, from some reason this is important for SH5) for the next TWoS update and that have cured all the problem...:yep:

I see it now. Hmm. that's funny :
I opened a random batch of NRTW files, then some other stock ships. When you open NRTW.fx it is immediately highlighted in red by default.

https://s8.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2020/07/01cd84e18e2174db932596de5ba87348.png

And now the contents:

https://s8.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2020/07/b0b137f3ca8b8308bb5703966e4dc838.png

I was always focused on all these registration IDS and did not pay any attention to the type container of controllers. They are different for different ships (random?), and these are the native files of stock SH5. SH5, what are you..?)
In some cases, the controller container\ Sub type: -1, in others\ Sub type: 1000 (<notset>). Somewhere else at the end there is an Unknown chank, and somewhere it is not.

By the way, resaving in GoblinEditor just changes the ObjectCtrlsRef container to Sub type: -1.

https://s8.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2020/07/e6ea2f341b43011da781f90aafe60116.png

:hmmm::hmmm::hmmm::hmmm::hmmm:

@vdr1981, what do you think about this? ObjectCtrlsRef / Sub type: -1 - which is the most correct? Or no and there the matter is something else and Sub type: 1000 (<notset>) has its own conditions of use?

[kapuhy]

I.e., perform a "Merge” of open fx files with Baza_FX. dat. in this case, “unknown " will get their names in the list of the program window, they are available for selection, and will even be visible in the view

:o

"Would've taken me forever to work that one out." - William Butcher

Thanks for this, now I can finally see in editor what these effects do!

-----
Anyway, glad to hear you are figuring this out, guys. I'll certainly be updating fx files on my coasters once I'm done with new ship I'm configuring at the moment (already imported into game, but I still have to test and tweak its damage model and fix some minor errors).

[kapuhy]

Update: new ship added - Coastal Tanker:

https://i.imgur.com/HC5qhkx.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bL0AArh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/CLp1asC.jpg

Based on - still surviving - American tanker Mary A. Whalen built in 1938:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/MaryWhalen102910_bernie_Ente.jpg

[vdr1981]

You Kapuhy are creating SH5 history! :up::up::up:

[Muckenberg]

Good day
Thank you very much for your amazing work. :Kaleun_Applaud: :Kaleun_Applaud: Do you think that you will ever build large ocean-going ships?

[Texas Red]

Update: new ship added - Coastal Tanker:

https://i.imgur.com/HC5qhkx.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bL0AArh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/CLp1asC.jpg

Based on - still surviving - American tanker Mary A. Whalen built in 1938:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/MaryWhalen102910_bernie_Ente.jpg

Will I need to redownload the mod to get the new ship?

[kapuhy]

Will I need to redownload the mod to get the new ship?

I'm afraid so - I simply replaced old package with the updated one - though if you prefer, I can pack and upload separately only files containing the new ship.

Good day
Thank you very much for your amazing work. :Kaleun_Applaud: :Kaleun_Applaud: Do you think that you will ever build large ocean-going ships?

I see no reason why not, though I will certainly finish my current coaster pack first.

The thing with larger ships is that thanks to vdr1981's efforts there's a great selection of them already in TWoS (though it would be nice to convert some of imported ships to .gr2 format like Rosomaha did with C3 Cargo recently). Coasters, on the other hand, were completely missing from stock game and still underrepresented in TWoS (which has a variety of fishing boats and then roster pretty much "jumps" to ships around 1800-2000 GRT).

If I'm to make a completely new larger ship model, I'd like it to be type of ship that is not currently featured and yet was often seen on seas during WW2.

[vdr1981]

Kapuhy, please note that I had to enhance your TWoS v2.2.19 fix with few files from "Sea" folder in order get rid of previously mentioned "mysterious" conflicts and CTDs. The files are basically the same, the only difference is that I had to change first line in fx files to "none" in order to re-save them with goblin editor... Here is the link http://www.mediafire.com/file/80wbuv8srs4mdxc/Little_Ships_V_1_0_1_TWoS_2_2_19_Fix_Revised_by_vd r1981.rar/file :salute::salute::salute:

[kapuhy]

Kapuhy, please note that I had to enhance your TWoS v2.2.19 fix with few files from "Sea" folder in order get rid of previously mentioned "mysterious" conflicts and CTDs. The files are basically the same, the only difference is that I had to change first line in fx files to "none" in order to re-save them with goblin editor... Here is the link http://www.mediafire.com/file/80wbuv8srs4mdxc/Little_Ships_V_1_0_1_TWoS_2_2_19_Fix_Revised_by_vd r1981.rar/file :salute::salute::salute:

Thanks! I'll compare these and include your fix in my upload. Any way I can replicate these conflicts/CTD's? What you did esentially disables SH5 fire/explosion FX, so I want to be able to replicate the problem in order to - hopefully - find a solution that would allow to keep the FX and not have any conflicts.

[vdr1981]

Thanks! I'll compare these and include your fix in my upload. Any way I can replicate these conflicts/CTD's? What you did esentially disables SH5 fire/explosion FX, so I want to be able to replicate the problem in order to - hopefully - find a solution that would allow to keep the FX and not have any conflicts.
I'm afraid that it isn't only the fx files that can cause the problem. For example, I was testing your NOC_Mary little bit before in TWoS v.2.2.20 and it turns out that I have to "resave" sim, zon and fx files in goblin in order to eliminate game crash when NOC_Mary is rendered after all other included air/sea/land units. Why is this so, I have no idea honestly...


Anyway, I have already prepared v2.2.20 update for TWoS which will allow all new units (stock, your's, Rosomaha's and mine) to work in perfect "harmony" and without CTDs in various test scenarios. :yep: There will be a lot of "re-saved" files there, including all fx files from the stock game as well.

Then I'll create special "all units museum rendering test" mod which will allow you to quickly and easily test newly added units. :yep:

[kapuhy]

I'm afraid that it isn't only the fx files that can cause the problem. For example, I was testing your NOC_Mary little bit before in TWoS v.2.2.20 and it turns out that I have to "resave" sim, zon and fx files in goblin in order to eliminate game crash when NOC_Mary is rendered after all other included air/sea/land units. Why is this so, I have no idea honestly...

:o SH5 moves in mysterious ways...

When C3 files needed resaving in Goblin I assumed it was because they were initially created in S3D, but Mary was made in Goblin/Gr2Editor exclusively so something else is at play here. Did NOC_Ben and NKC_Grisou also give you these problems? These two ships don't have FX files at all and they weren't based on NRTW template so that could narrow down the issue.

Anyway, with 2.2.20 update coming, I'll wait with any changes until it's out, and then I think I will keep two versions of my mod separately downloadable: a full "stock" version and a small "only the things I've added since last TWoS update" patch for anyone who plays TWoS and wants to test new ships as they appear :)

[vdr1981]

:o SH5 moves in mysterious ways...

When C3 files needed resaving in Goblin I assumed it was because they were initially created in S3D, but Mary was made in Goblin/Gr2Editor exclusively so something else is at play here. Did NOC_Ben and NKC_Grisou also give you these problems? These two ships don't have FX files at all and they weren't based on NRTW template so that could narrow down the issue.

Anyway, with 2.2.20 update coming, I'll wait with any changes until it's out, and then I think I will keep two versions of my mod separately downloadable: a full "stock" version and a small "only the things I've added since last TWoS update" patch for anyone who plays TWoS and wants to test new ships as they appear :)


In veeeery mysterious ways indeed ...:yep:
I'll try to upload tomorrow RC version of v2.2.20 update and the museum rendering mod I was talking about. I'll also then explain to you in details how to use it and to replicate these problems.



I doubt that we will ever find real explanation for what is going on without some real programmer with SH5 experience, but in the end it doesn't really matter. We learned to track down, isolate and fix the problem and that's all we need for stable gameplay.:yep:

[vdr1981]

OK Kapuhy here we go.:)


You can find on this link RC3 version of the upcoming v2.2.20 update and the test mod we were talking about...https://www.mediafire.com/file/ibthuxe5443zdiw/Test+package+for+Kapuhy.rar/file


Install the v2.2.20 update as usual and activate optional mods you wish.

Add manually "Kiel+Museum rendering test" mod to your JSGME and activate it last in your list.


From this moment on, your "World" nation in the museum is set to display ALL available air and sea units, including env units, landing crafts, lifeboats ect which usually wouldn't be shown in the museum.:yep:


Several Land units which couldn't be displayed in the museum will be rendered in special historical mission called "Kiel_VIIC rendering test+Land Units" which is now added to your game. The Kiel harbor it self is also important part of the test as well.



Now, how to perform rendering test:


- First, enter the game and start historical mission "Kiel_VIIC rendering test+Land Units". Select full speed ahead, ask navigator to return to course and use TC until you reach last way point (it's OK to use nav map view).
Exit to main menu...


- Now, enter Museum and scroll down to "World" nation which now contains all remaining units. Prepare for a lot of clicking and check all units from left to right, all the way to last airplane. (U-Flak may need some time to load and one iceberg may have problems with cameras but this is nothing to worry about).


And there you have it, the units rendering test is complete.:yep:
By doing all of this dance, you have effectively simulated one long patrol with a departure from the "heaviest" harbor in the game (Kiel) with the encounter of all available units and objects.



If you use TWoS v2.2.20 only you should pass this test without problems.


Now, for a start, replace Sea/NOC_Mary files from TWoS with your original files and repeat the rendering test again. You'll see that the game will CTD at some point, after the coastal tanker have been rendered in the museum...

[kapuhy]

OK Kapuhy here we go.:)

Thanks :) Downloaded the file, will try it out later today.

Edit: From a quick look, contrary to what I thought your fix did not disable Coastal Tanker's SH5 effects, that's very good news. Seems you found a way to fix this without losing any functionality whatsoever :up:

[vdr1981]

Thanks :) Downloaded the file, will try it out later today.

Edit: From a quick look, contrary to what I thought your fix did not disable Coastal Tanker's SH5 effects, that's very good news. Seems you found a way to fix this without losing any functionality whatsoever :up:
That's good to hear. :up:



Small note regarding RC3 update I sent you, It's identical to official update I've uploaded today, only change log differs...:yep:

[kapuhy]

U-31 reports: new British ship type sighted off Irish coast:

https://i.imgur.com/04yPam8.jpg

It's estimated it will be ready for mass production in about a week, after sea trials are complete :)

[Propnut17]

Soon there will be more cargo on the sea than destroyers. :up:

[kapuhy]

Soon there will be more cargo on the sea than destroyers. :up:

Well, I have some escort blueprints stashed on my hard drive so should the Navy request it my shipyard is ready... :D

[kapuhy]

So, the new ship - a typical British raised quarterdeck steamer - is basically ready for relase, but during testing I encountered a bug that in some cases might cause CTD when rendered together with certain other TWoS units and I am postponing relasing it until I'm certain it's fixed. Here's screenshot of how it looks in game:

https://i.imgur.com/34YmpYs.jpg

Meanwhile, I've laid down keels of three new ships - two passenger and one cargo. Progress so far:

https://i.imgur.com/bUZYxXZ.png

[Macgregor the Hammer]

Beautiful work!!

[vdr1981]

OK, you can send me the files on PM Kapuhy. I'll check what's going on...:yep:

[vdr1981]

NKC_Moygannon is fixed to work perfectly with all other units , don't worry...
:salute:
Now this is interesting - as soon as I add other tweaked sim file from "old" ships, same problems occurs immediately...:hmmm::hmmm::hmmm:



I'm starting to think that the game engine will, from some reason, somehow confuse if some controller files are saved on different PC-ies?! :doh:


I guess I'll be able to fix this problem as well...:yep: I'll upload the files tomorrow, it's really late here now.


BTW, new raised quarterdeck looks awesome, great work ! :up::up::up:

[kapuhy]

NKC_Moygannon is fixed to work perfectly with all other units , don't worry...
:salute:

Wow that was quick :up: thanks!

I'm starting to think that the game engine will, from some reason, somehow confuse if some controller files are saved on different PC-ies?! :doh:

That would be... weird but certainly seems like it. Easy way to test it - I'll try today after work: take your files, resave on my computer without any actual changes, run rendering test again. If ctd occurs your theory is true.

Edit: and if true, this would explain so many mod conflicts in SH5...

Beautiful work!!
BTW, new raised quarterdeck looks awesome, great work ! :up::up::up:

Thanks :)

[vdr1981]

I'll try today after work: take your files, resave on my computer without any actual changes, run rendering test again. If ctd occurs your theory is true.


You'll have to change at least something in order to make controllers "red", otherwise there won't be anything for saving. :yep: For example, change max speed from 10 to 10.1 and save. Or , you can change to 10.1 and then revert back to 10 and save again. The point is to make controllers to turn "red" and then save...:yep:


Anyway, your files are ready and work perfectly in my (even more stressful) rendering test! :)


I'll send you PM in a few minutes.


You'll noticed that I've changed quarterdeck's type to 108 (rare cargo ships, instead of 102). I don't think that such a small vessel would be commonly seen in large transatlantic convoys, for which type 102 is primarily intended, but If you tend to disagree please let me know. :yep:

[kapuhy]

So, I did the test and indeed it seems saving ship files is system-sensitive :doh:

Here's exactly what I did:
- I ran rendering test for files you sent me: all OK
- then I changed speed of FBML from 20 to 15 and back to 20 to make sim file "red"
- saved sim file
- ran the rendering test again, this time I game CTD's at Japanese Subchaser

I wanted to see it it's just my ships so I reverted back to your FBML files and repeated the procedure this time with stock Bismark. Again, after resaving sim file on my computer I got CTD at Japanese Subchaser.

So, for now, it seems the only reliable way to ensure any new mod is TWoS compatible is to send you the mod files to resave on your system :D

Edit: It would be interesting to see if the same applies to others as well, for that we'd need a volunteer with TWoS 2.2.20 installed to do the same experiment and see if resaving files will also make his/her game crash on test.

You'll noticed that I've changed quarterdeck's type to 108 (rare cargo ships, instead of 102). I don't think that such a small vessel would be commonly seen in large transatlantic convoys, for which type 102 is primarily intended, but If you tend to disagree please let me know. :yep:

No, it's all right. Ideally, this kind of ship should be seen in coastal traffic and in short-sea trade (routes like Britain to Norway, Southern Europe through Mediterranean to North Africa, South to North America through Caribbean and such) and not at all in transatlantic convoys, but this would first require expanding existing coastal lines and groups and I didn't want to meddle with campaign files too much as I don't fully grasp how they work.

If you'd like to expand coastal traffic layer in the future, I can search for some historically used routes by such small ships around the world.

[vdr1981]

So, I did the test and indeed it seems saving ship files is system-sensitive :doh:

Here's exactly what I did:
- I ran rendering test for files you sent me: all OK
- then I changed speed of FBML from 20 to 15 and back to 20 to make sim file "red"
- saved sim file
- ran the rendering test again, this time I game CTD's at Japanese Subchaser

I wanted to see it it's just my ships so I reverted back to your FBML files and repeated the procedure this time with stock Bismark. Again, after resaving sim file on my computer I got CTD at Japanese Subchaser.

So, for now, it seems the only reliable way to ensure any new mod is TWoS compatible is to send you the mod files to resave on your system :D

This is very strange indeed but it's the way it is...:doh: I'd really like to hear Jeff's opinion regarding this...:hmmm:


Here's exactly what I did:
- I ran rendering test for files you sent me: all OK
- then I changed speed of FBML from 20 to 15 and back to 20 to make sim file "red"
- saved sim file
- ran the rendering test again, this time I game CTD's at Japanese Subchaser
...and if you "skip" the subchaser, then the game will CTD on some other unit. If you skip that random unit as well, then the appearance of some next random unit will CTD the game, and so on...:yep:

[kapuhy]

...and if you "skip" the subchaser, then the game will CTD on some other unit. If you skip that random unit as well, then the appearance of some next random unit will CTD the game, and so on...:yep:

Yes, the subchaser is first of ctd-inducing units but I'm not sure they are random. I'll try experimenting but my impression right now is that there's a group of .dat format ships that would always cause ctd after any change to any gr2 unit that requires resaving is done on different computer than yours.

I also wonder what would happen if I resave, say, Bismark and japanese subchaser. Would it also cause ctd or render normally until first of these problematic units that was not resaved on another computer is rendered?

I'd really like to hear Jeff's opinion regarding this...:hmmm:

Me too. I remember back in my Fairmile thread (when I tried to make Fairmile's custom weapons in .dat format) there was an issue (and it was Jeff who made me aware of it) of Goblin generating random ID's for nodes from the file name as opposed to SH3 where those ID's were assigned permanently and would crash/cause issues when two units with the same ID for a node were rendered together. I wonder if current issue has roots in something similar.

[tonschk]

Amazing, great work and thank you! :up::up::up:

[vdr1981]

To add to the confusion kapuhy, the game is still full of sim, zon, val and other controller files which aren't last saved by me. We still have stock files on some units and equipment, various files from different mods ect...Still, we can pass our rendering test with them?! :06:


Until I have discovered this, the game was full of "subchasers" but at the moment when I resaved controller files of playable submarines, the CTDs dropped by something like 80%.



There is also "something" in Kiel harbor which can "squeeze" out hidden problems, and that's why it is important part of the rendering test...

[Sailor Steve]

WOW!! Sometimes dreams DO come true! Thank you for your hard work and research.

[vdr1981]

The biggest draw back with the type 104 (coastal vessels) is the lack of sonarman's ability to report them. These sound contacts are completely ignored by the game. I tried to add new category reserved only for somewhat bigger coastal ships in order to separate them from simple fishing boats, but the game wont let me do it...:hmmm: It seems that these stuff are hard codded by the game...

[kapuhy]

Allright guys, I updated download links in the first post. There are two separate downloads now - full pack, for non-TWoS users, and separate "patch" download which just updates content previously included in TWoS 2.2.20 to most up-to-date version. This patch has been fixed by vdr1981 to ensure compatibility with TWoS.

Besides adding the new Raised Quarterdecker ship, I fixed smoke in all vessels to match their propulsion:

https://i.imgur.com/UwObHZM.jpg

and added additional info to recognition book entries for every ship, including some info on their design, history, layout and in some cases tactical advice on how to efficiently sink them:

https://i.imgur.com/OkpF8LJ.jpg

[vdr1981]

Great work Kapuhy, thank you very much!:up::up::up:

[Ashikaga]

Wow, beautiful mod. Will install it as soon as I upgrade but first want to finish this game on 2.2.7 which runs fairly stable on my rig. (Hate that I should start a fully new campaign when upgrading since I like the one I am doing now due to non savegame compatibility issues).

And, since it looks like you are a great 3d designer, could uou perhaps work on a playable type IX for in the game (with type VII interior would be fine) only downside would be the lacknof one torpedo tube astern since that is not hardcoded in the game afaik. Vecko do you know if I am correct?

I would LOVE a playable type IX in the game.

OLtzS Ashikaga.

[vdr1981]

Wow, beautiful mod. Will install it as soon as I upgrade but first want to finish this game on 2.2.9 which runs fairly stable on my rig. (Hate that I should start a fully new campaign when upgrading since I like the one I am doing now due to non savegame compatibility issues).


You can upgrade from 2.2.9 to 2.2.20 but you can't from 2.2.8 to 2.2.20. I thought that my note on the update download page was clear enough. :hmmm:





And, since it looks like you are a great 3d designer, could uou perhaps work on a playable type IX for in the game (with type VII interior would be fine) only downside would be the lacknof one torpedo tube astern since that is not hardcoded in the game afaik. Vecko do you know if I am correct?

I would LOVE a playable type IX in the game.

OLtzS Ashikaga.


Hardly...We all do but only few people here realizes how much of a undertake that would be. I stopped dreaming about this long time ago...

[kapuhy]

great 3d designer

I absolutely need to put this in my resume :D

More seriously - thank you for your kind words, but firstly I'm just an amateur playing around with Blender in his free time, and secondly, playable IX in this game would be a huge undertaking for any single modder. If this was a question of "hey, we have a dedicated team working on this project and looking for people to help" I'd volunteer in an instant, but doing it on my own is well outside realm of possibility.

The biggest draw back with the type 104 (coastal vessels) is the lack of sonarman's ability to report them. These sound contacts are completely ignored by the game. I tried to add new category reserved only for somewhat bigger coastal ships in order to separate them from simple fishing boats, but the game wont let me do it...:hmmm: It seems that these stuff are hard codded by the game...

That's a bummer... sadly, I lack the knowledge of campaign files to offer suggestions. Perhaps it would be possible to "free" one of unit types by assigning all its units to similar type (for example, merge "super battleships" with "battleships") and then use freed up type for new units?

[Ashikaga]

You can upgrade from 2.2.9 to 2.2.20 but you can't from 2.2.8 to 2.2.20. I thought that my note on the update download page was clear enough. :hmmm:

Hardly...We all do but only few people here realizes how much of a undertake that would be. I stopped dreaming about this long time ago...

Ad 1:
Sorry Vecko, still on 2.2.7, just checked. :)

Ad 2: Having dabbled in Blender, Maya 6.5 and 3dSmax I know full well how incredibly time consuming it is and how difficult. Hell I still cannot make a simple shape, texture it and lightmap it let alone attach attributes to it hahaha.

Also tried Zbrush. I think 3d designing is not for me.

I do print 3d items though on a resin printer. Still thinking of one day converting a game 3d file to a printable " stl file hahaha.

OLtzS Ashikaga

[Ashikaga]

I absolutely need to put this in my resume :D

More seriously - thank you for your kind words, but firstly I'm just an amateur playing around with Blender in his free time, and secondly, playable IX in this game would be a huge undertaking for any single modder. If this was a question of "hey, we have a dedicated team working on this project and looking for people to help" I'd volunteer in an instant, but doing it on my own is well outside realm of possibility.

Someone was working on a Type IX once :

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=233811

Maybe he has some files you could use, saves a lot of work, or if he is still active you might combine forces.

:)

OLtzS Ashikaga

[vdr1981]

Someone was working on a Type IX once :

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=233811

Maybe he has some files you could use, saves a lot of work, or if he is still active you might combine forces.

:)

OLtzS Ashikaga
I'm afraid that mkiii's project is abandoned. He isn't visited the forums for several years now...:wah:

[skin-nl]

Great work kapuhy :salute:

[kapuhy]

So, I had a long break in this project caused by working on aircraft pack, but now with work on planes being almost complete, I resumed working on remaining "little ships" and I have a bit of progress to report (though no new ships for upload yet):

Coastal Ferry - based on MV Lochiel from 1939 - finished most of diffuse textures with just some details remaining, then I'll add interior, AO map and she'll be ready for import:

https://i.imgur.com/jgoY3HQ.png

https://i.imgur.com/TD5PWWd.png

I started modeling a new warship as well - YMS-class minesweeper. Only halfway through modeling (not to speak of texture or import) so this one won't be ready soon, but I'll be getting there :)

https://i.imgur.com/RcRMBOm.png

[AMZ]

Great job Kapuhy



And all in the GR2 format.

What a mastery, great Master ! :yeah:



Since I relased the pack before I learned how to move the fx bones (the trick, it appears, was to change one line in Shipname.1st file...), I disabled most of the SH5 effects anyway, except for those that coincidentally were in right places despite hull shape change. Only exception is Large Fishing Trawler - since in this case ship shape didn't change much I kept most effects from original.



That interests me, please, can you just expand , with a few screenshots.


Thank you


:salute:

[kapuhy]

That interests me, please, can you just expand , with a few screenshots.

No need for screenshots really, it was a simple mistake I made.

Let's say you want to make a new ship and you call it MyShip. It's folder inside \data\sea will be called MyShip, and it will contain, among other files following .gr2 files:

MyShip.gr2 - main model gr2 file
MyShip_LOD.gr2 - LOD model, simplified, for long distances
MyShip_FX.gr2 - FX file - it doesn't contain any meshes, just bones that determine where SH5 effects will be placed (explosions, fires and such).

The problem I had was that no matter how I moved bones in MyShip_FX.gr2 file, fires and explosions were being played in wrong places. Why?

It turned out I forgot to update a small text file that is also in each ship folder, in our case it would be called MyShip.lst. This file consists of a single line that is a path to FX file responsible for the effects. Because path didn't point to my modified FX file, but to FX file of stock game ship that I used as template, all changes I made to effect placement were ignored by the game.

[AMZ]

Thank you for the answer Kapuhy.

I understand that you have also created your FX effect.
this is great.:p2:

Without wanting to bother you, in another thread I will wish to share with you my difficulties for the realization of a lighthouse with long range light ...


and congratulations

[kapuhy]

Another ship in progress. If it looks weirdly familiar, that's because I reused texture and a lot of small details from raised quarterdeck steamer, which simplified the work a lot.

https://i.imgur.com/5WI2NoG.png

It's based on Kyle Rhea coastal steamer:

https://photos.smugmug.com/SHIPS/British-Coastal-and-Short-Sea/R-CAMERON/i-mJ9zvz3/3/31ecffa5/M/KYLERHEA-M.jpg

[Mister_M]

Another ship in progress. If it looks weirdly familiar, that's because I reused texture and a lot of small details from raised quarterdeck steamer, which simplified the work a lot.

https://i.imgur.com/5WI2NoG.png

Beautiful ! Maybe the portholes seem a bit too large for me...


I still have several models of larger ships I plan to add to this mod in future updates (in this case "larger" means between 500-1600 GRT, these are still coastal vessels):

https://i.imgur.com/V7XZ2ll.jpg


I very would like to see one day in game the steam merchant ship which is on the picture in the middle. It's a very common class/type from previous war, and many were still sailing during WWII. :yep:

[Mister_M]

It wouldn't be too difficult for you to model this ship :) : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mersey-class_trawler

Precise plans : https://modelismenavalradioc.forumactif.com/t13232-un-chalutier-vapeur-de-type-mersey-de-a-a-z

[kapuhy]

It wouldn't be too difficult for you to model this ship :) : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mersey-class_trawler

Precise plans : https://modelismenavalradioc.forumactif.com/t13232-un-chalutier-vapeur-de-type-mersey-de-a-a-z

Interesting one, added to plans collection, thanks :)

No promises though, I have several ships I've already started to finish first, including one you've mentioned in earlier post.

[Mister_M]

Interesting one, added to plans collection, thanks :)

No promises though, I have several ships I've already started to finish first, including one you've mentioned in earlier post.

I'm just giving ideas :Kaleun_Salute:

[kapuhy]

I very would like to see one day in game the steam merchant ship which is on the picture in the middle. It's a very common class/type from previous war, and many were still sailing during WWII. :yep:

...oh and speaking of common ship types from WW1 time, I have another one (finished modeling, waiting for import to sh5):

https://i.imgur.com/NrT215V.png

[Mister_M]

...oh and speaking of common ship types from WW1 time, I have another one (finished modeling, waiting for import to sh5):

https://i.imgur.com/NrT215V.png

Lovely ! :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

I wish to import them in SH3 also, if you agree of course. :)

Do you intend to create various "weathered" textures also, that would be great ! :yep: (Good pictures here can help you to ofind inspiration : https://www.sixtant.net/2011/artigos.php?cat=italian-submarines-in-south-atlantic-&sub=italian-sommergibili&tag=14)39-ships-sunk-by-italian-submarines)

And don't forget to do a proper "war re-paint" to remove bright red deck and white upper surfaces... :03: (the funnel too could be repainted in grey).

Oh, by the way, how many triangles for this complete model ?

[kapuhy]

I wish to import them in SH3 also, if you agree of course. :)

Sure, I'm happy to share them :)

Do you intend to create various "weathered" textures also, that would be great ! :yep: (Good pictures here can help you to ofind inspiration : https://www.sixtant.net/2011/artigos.php?cat=italian-submarines-in-south-atlantic-&sub=italian-sommergibili&tag=14)39-ships-sunk-by-italian-submarines)

And don't forget to do a proper "war re-paint" to remove bright red deck and white upper surfaces... :03: (the funnel too could be repainted in grey).

Yes and yes. You might have noticed several ships share texture - idea is to use the same base texture for a number of ships, then make several variants of it (black/white, black/buff, grey etc) which could be used for all ships sharing the same base texture file.

Edit: As for "weathered" version: in SH5 "weathering" is done through Ambient Occlusion texture which is not visible in Blender, but will be in place in final imported version.

Oh, by the way, how many triangles for this complete model ?

28000

[Mister_M]

Sure, I'm happy to share them :)

Great !!! All I need is the 3D model, the texture(s) and some data on the ship (possible names, type (folder's name for the game), tonnage, dimensions, max speed....).

:Kaleun_Wink:

[Mister_M]

I've tried to convert one of your ship today, but I can't open GR2 files... What software do you use to edit those files ?

Another question : do you model the hull of your ships with their original lines plans, or do you use only side and top views ?

Else, it seems some nations are missing in roster (Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, etc.), because you've written some textures availability for these countries in your Countries availability table.pdf. Maybe these data are for TWOS and not vanilla ?

[Demon777]

kapuhy, the ship is amazing :up:

[kapuhy]

I've tried to convert one of your ship today, but I can't open GR2 files... What software do you use to edit those files ?

TDW's GR2Editor (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=188290). You can use it to export from GR2 to .obj and vice versa. If this won't work for you, I can export directly to .obj from Blender for you.

Another question : do you model the hull of your ships with their original lines plans, or do you use only side and top views ?

Whatever I can lay my hands on. Lines plans are of course the best, but in case they are not available hull shape can sometimes be approximated using general arrangement plans, especially if they include several decks (you can then use deck views as "lines" of sort).

Else, it seems some nations are missing in roster (Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, etc.), because you've written some textures availability for these countries in your Countries availability table.pdf. Maybe these data are for TWOS and not vanilla ?

Vanilla SH5 only has limited selection of nations, TWoS (or to be specific OHII which is included in TWoS) added many more. Roster file in stock version of my mod does not include these nations (but I was too lazy to make separate table, sorry :oops:)

[Mister_M]

TDW's GR2Editor (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=188290). You can use it to export from GR2 to .obj and vice versa. If this won't work for you, I can export directly to .obj from Blender for you.

Unfortunately, the editor crashes when I open it.

Error message :

Erreur de l'application.-2005530516 (D3DERR_INVALIDCALL)
à Microsoft.DirectX.Direct3D.Device.GetRenderStateSi ngle(RenderStates state)
à Microsoft.DirectX.Direct3D.RenderStateManager.get_ PointSize()
à TheDarkWraith.SilentHunter5.Lighting.Render()
à TheDarkWraith.SilentHunter5.Lighting.OnDeviceReset (Object sender, EventArgs e)
à TheDarkWraith.SilentHunter5.Lighting..ctor(Graphic s& graphicspassed)
à TheDarkWraith.SilentHunter5.Graphics..ctor(GR2Edit orViewer gr2evpassed, Panel& pnl3Dpassed, Panel& pnlCamerapassed, Panel& pnlWorldpassed, Boolean cameracullingenabled, Single cameranearclipplane, Single camerafarclipplane)
à TheDarkWraith.SilentHunter5.GR2EditorViewer.GR2Edi torViewer_Shown(Object sender, EventArgs e)
à System.Windows.Forms.Form.OnShown(EventArgs e)
à System.Windows.Forms.Form.CallShownEvent()
à System.Windows.Forms.Control.InvokeMarshaledCallba ckDo(ThreadMethodEntry tme)
à System.Windows.Forms.Control.InvokeMarshaledCallba ckHelper(Object obj)
à System.Threading.ExecutionContext.runTryCode(Objec t userData)
à System.Runtime.CompilerServices.RuntimeHelpers.Exe cuteCodeWithGuaranteedCleanup(TryCode code, CleanupCode backoutCode, Object userData)
à System.Threading.ExecutionContext.RunInternal(Exec utionContext executionContext, ContextCallback callback, Object state)
à System.Threading.ExecutionContext.Run(ExecutionCon text executionContext, ContextCallback callback, Object state)
à System.Windows.Forms.Control.InvokeMarshaledCallba ck(ThreadMethodEntry tme)
à System.Windows.Forms.Control.InvokeMarshaledCallba cks()


I would like to convert the Raised quaterdecker (Moygannon).


Whatever I can lay my hands on. Lines plans are of course the best, but in case they are not available hull shape can sometimes be approximated using general arrangement plans, especially if they include several decks (you can then use deck views as "lines" of sort).

:up:

Vanilla SH5 only has limited selection of nations, TWoS (or to be specific OHII which is included in TWoS) added many more. Roster file in stock version of my mod does not include these nations (but I was too lazy to make separate table, sorry :oops:)

OK, that was what I thought. It's like SH3.

[Mister_M]

Great !!! All I need is the 3D model, the texture(s) and some data on the ship (possible names, type (folder's name for the game), tonnage, dimensions, max speed....).

:Kaleun_Wink:

I'm waiting for your files. :yep: :03:

[kapuhy]

And another WIP, Hunt class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunt-class_minesweeper_(1916)) minesweeper:

https://i.imgur.com/vS5kEAQ.png

This is late WW1 design, but 29 of these still served during WW2.

[propbeanie]

Very nice! Now, I must ask: Do you have plans for dat file SH4 conversions for all your ships, or are we all going to have to play SH5 for these?... lol :salute:

[kapuhy]

Now, I must ask: Do you have plans for dat file SH4 conversions for all your ships, or are we all going to have to play SH5 for these?... lol :salute:

I've never played or modded SH4 (Pacific theatre's never been my thing in subsims, due to inverted difficulty curve), so at least for the time being I don't plan to relase SH4 mods. That said, if someone would like to relase them for SH4 I will be happy to assist. I can provide s3d compatible meshes, textures and maybe help with these controllers that I know how to setup, leaving only SH4 specific controllers and in-game testing.

[propbeanie]

Oooh-ooh... we will try to take you up on that offer! Thank you! We do have a few connections we can call on, and will attempt to make time for the conversions and not bother you too much about it. SH4 is also sadly lacking in coastal vessels, relying on a few "fishing" boats, which are re-worked tugs (or is it the tugs re-worked from fishing vessels??) and several sampan. That is basically it. Thank you again. We'll be in touch!

[Jeff-Groves]

Unfortunately, the editor crashes when I open it.


You need to use version 1.1.451.1

Then correct the 3D models in an out side program since TDW has a flawed way of importing to the GR2 files.

I'd say it's like needing a 50 gallon drum to carry 10 gallons of water.

[kapuhy]

a few "fishing" boats, which are re-worked tugs (or is it the tugs re-worked from fishing vessels??) and several sampan. That is basically it.

SH5 also lacks fishing boats appropriate for British coastal waters. There's a Coastal Boat (which seems based on MFV1001 class) and (in TWoS) several imported .dat format ships which sadly are either too modern (Pelagic Trawler), or low detail. I added a large trawler converted from stock Armed Trawler but this ship is huge (there were only a handful of such large fishing vessels in existence back then - it should be very rare), so I plan to add a smaller and more common trawler to the mix, based on Lydia Eva:

https://alchetron.com/cdn/lydia-eva-steam-drifter-765e751d-23a1-4318-b7ae-1bf5b3fef09-resize-750.jpeg

[Mister_M]

So I plan to add a smaller and more common trawler to the mix, based on Lydia Eva:

https://alchetron.com/cdn/lydia-eva-steam-drifter-765e751d-23a1-4318-b7ae-1bf5b3fef09-resize-750.jpeg

Excellent idea ! :yep:

I'm currently working on a French tug boat (L'Actif - 1939), but it's hard for me to keep it low poly because I have very detailed technical plans and I like details :D ...

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2021/11/30//21113004510818069017695140.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/21113004510818069017695140.png.html)

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2021/11/30//21113005015118069017695146.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/21113005015118069017695146.png.html)

[propbeanie]

There is an animated crane in SH4, and I was thinking of attempting to have "moving" fishing nets and booms on a fishing boat:

https://fishingbooker.com/blog/media/Commercial-fishing.jpg

but getting the net to "play out" would be a tough bit of artwork. Maybe just have the boat with the nets already deployed, and towing them? I dunno... It'd be cool to see, but how many players would look before shooting anyway?... lol

[Jeff-Groves]

There is an animated crane in SH4, and I was thinking of attempting to have "moving" fishing nets and booms on a fishing boat:


but getting the net to "play out" would be a tough bit of artwork. Maybe just have the boat with the nets already deployed, and towing them? I dunno... It'd be cool to see, but how many players would look before shooting anyway?... lol
It's not that hard to do animations. It's just that no one is willing to attempt doing them. It's like talking hex editing. It's all Voodoo unless one is given a point and clicky-clicky tool.

[Mister_M]

It'd be cool to see, but how many players would look before shooting anyway?... lol

:har:

[Jeff-Groves]

Excellent idea ! :yep:

I'm currently working on a French tug boat (L'Actif - 1939), but it's hard for me to keep it low poly because I have very detailed technical plans and I like details :D ...


If Imported properly to a GR2 file? Those models are not that high in details.

[Mister_M]

If Imported properly to a GR2 file? Those models are not that high in details.

Why ? Is there any limitation ?

There is an animated crane in SH4, and I was thinking of attempting to have "moving" fishing nets and booms on a fishing boat:

https://fishingbooker.com/blog/media/Commercial-fishing.jpg

Don't forget to add lots of seagulls all around... :O:

[Jeff-Groves]

Why ? Is there any limitation ?

Look at the files for the Interiors. Pretty much no limit.
Only thing would be does a new ship drop the Game to it's knees?
The Granny system is a really robust thing.
Even Units done with a flawed import seem to have little impact on Game play.

[kapuhy]

I'm currently working on a French tug boat (L'Actif - 1939), but it's hard for me to keep it low poly because I have very detailed technical plans and I like details :D ...

Looks cool :)

Why ? Is there any limitation ?

The (currently) only tool available for modders not speaking binary (that is, everyone but Jeff right now) to export/import models to SH5, TDW's GR2Editor, inflates files during import (you'll find more info in Jeff's Almagest thread), which means models imported with it take more system resources than they should. That's why I would not advise to use this tool to make small improvements to existing models (like, say, adding a single crate on deck of a ship) unless you can use strict import option, because entire file will then be inflated in size for relatively small gain.

Still, even these inflated files are handled rather well by SH5. To give you an idea:

- Stock Armed Trawler has 11236 triangles and 1,55 MB gr2 file
- Large Fishing Trawler (my remodel of the above unit), 12201 triangles but 2,81 MB file

Seems suboptimal, but at the same time PB4Y plane in TWoS has 160671 triangles and 8,38 MB .dat file and there is no visible lag when a flight of these appear. Or, for gr2 example, command room o our boat has 55 MB .gr2 file. So, the game can handle way more than stock units "weight".

When I was making first units of this mod I was very stingy with details because I was worried about performance, but I've relaxed my detail limits a lot since.

[Jeff-Groves]

The Granny system is coded to optimize. Thus the success of the system!
It reads, compiles, and dumps garbage on a fantastic level!
On the fly optimization of files is unmatched! Thus the reason large files created with TDW's program work.
Now cutting file sizes down makes the read process faster, allows smaller file sizes over all, Thus the reason for creating Almagest.

[gap]

Wow, I see some amazing new ship/boat models coming.
Well done kapuhy and Mister_M, I can't wait to see your creations rendered in game :yeah:

[kapuhy]

Wow, I see some amazing new ship/boat models coming.

Speaking of which, how's your puffer? (no pressure, just curious ;) )

There is an animated crane in SH4, and I was thinking of attempting to have "moving" fishing nets and booms on a fishing boat:

Trawler I'm working on does not have such booms - it's a drifter, so more like this:

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/07/7c/95/077c95d6c27a41182be490426a166af2.jpg

In order to depict it "at work" I'd have to be able to make buoys and net that is connected to the ship but not rigidly - its bouncing due to wave movement should be independent, or every time ship rolls on waves buoys would jump out of the water. Same thing with trying to depict minesweepers while sweeping. Currently I have no clue how one would do it (but to tell the truth I haven't been looking into this much yet).

Worst case, as far as trawlers are concerned, one could make a docked version as part of port traffic, with nets deployed as separate "ship".

Edit 2: Current progress on the trawler:

https://i.imgur.com/rU7zFJY.png

[Mister_M]

Wow, I see some amazing new ship/boat models coming.
Well done kapuhy and Mister_M, I can't wait to see your creations rendered in game :yeah:

I've just realised that the plans I have are for the tugboat "Actif" of 1954, and not for the one of 1939 ! ... I've found this info on archives, it was not written on the plan (in fact not readable)... :wah:

[kapuhy]

I've just realised that the plans I have are for the tugboat "Actif" of 1954, and not for the one of 1939 ! ... I've found this info on archives, it was not written on the plan (in fact not readable)... :wah:

You mean these?

http://freeshipplans.com/free-model-ship-plans/french-steam-tugboat-actif-1939/

[Mister_M]

You mean these?

http://freeshipplans.com/free-model-ship-plans/french-steam-tugboat-actif-1939/

Yes exactly ! Tugboat of 1000 CV (CV = "chevaux" = horse power) and it's written "R : 21056" on the plans.

Now, https://www.aamm.fr/docs/pdf/repertoire%20des%20plans%20du%20SHD%20Chatelleraul t.pdf --- page 71 :

ACTIF - Remorqueur de 600 CV
- Documents communs à : LAVANDOU - PALMIER ET TATIHOU
- Groupes motoventilateurs de 5000 m³/h
1939 - Ensemble - rechange

ACTIF - Remorqueur de mer de 1000 CV
- A 707 - 1954 R.21056
- Projet d'un dispositif de mouillage et relevage des
mines d'exercice
- Document commun aux : CEPET, COTENTIN et TEBESSA
- Groupe motopompe de circulation
- Notice pour la conduite et l'entretien

And indeed, loonking again on the plans, you can read a date with "54" (1954), but it's not readable at first glance.

So, it is another ship... Actif is a very common word in french to design ships. It might be the same ship but with a new and more powerful engine, but I really don't think so. :hmmm:

It is the sentence "Projet d'un dispositif de mouillage et relevage des mines d'exercice" which drew my attention, because I had already read it on the plans I have.

[kapuhy]

Yes exactly ! Tugboat of 1000 CV (CV = "chevaux" = horse power) and it's written "R : 21056" on the plans.

Now, https://www.aamm.fr/docs/pdf/repertoire%20des%20plans%20du%20SHD%20Chatelleraul t.pdf --- page 71 :

ACTIF - Remorqueur de 600 CV
- Documents communs à : LAVANDOU - PALMIER ET TATIHOU
- Groupes motoventilateurs de 5000 m³/h
1939 - Ensemble - rechange

ACTIF - Remorqueur de mer de 1000 CV
- A 707 - 1954 R.21056
- Projet d'un dispositif de mouillage et relevage des
mines d'exercice
- Document commun aux : CEPET, COTENTIN et TEBESSA
- Groupe motopompe de circulation
- Notice pour la conduite et l'entretien

And indeed, loonking again on the plans, you can read a date with "54" (1954), but it's not readable at first glance.

So, it is another ship... Actif is a very common word in french to design ships. It might be the same ship but with a new and more powerful engine, but I really don't think so. :hmmm:

It is the sentence "Projet d'un dispositif de mouillage et relevage des mines d'exercice" which drew my attention, because I had already read it on the plans I have.

Hmm, look here:

http://uim.marine.free.fr/URO/nav-comp/URA/assinie.htm

From what I can decipher from it "Actif" is also a name for an entire series of tugs, some of them built during and some after WW2 - and indeed ship on the photo resembles yours. So you might be modeling a ship from right time period for the game after all :yeah:

[Mister_M]

Hmm, look here:

http://uim.marine.free.fr/URO/nav-comp/URA/assinie.htm

From what I can decipher from it "Actif" is also a name for an entire series of tugs, some of them built during and some after WW2 - and indeed ship on the photo resembles yours. So you might be modeling a ship from right time period for the game after all :yeah:

Yes, you're right, it's the same ! :o

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2021/12/03//21120307562118069017699420.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/21120307562118069017699420.png.html)

[kapuhy]

Yes, you're right, it's the same ! :o

If I were you I'd find and google image search names of other ships in this class, it might bring you photos that will be very useful for details and texturing. For example, Assinie on page I found was later renamed VERNICOS FRANGISKI and if you google that:

https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/media/vernicos-frangiski.340503/
https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/media/famagusta-distant-wreck.351324/

[propbeanie]

... Trawler I'm working on does not have such booms - it's a drifter, so more like this:

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/07/7c/95/077c95d6c27a41182be490426a166af2.jpg

In order to depict it "at work" I'd have to be able to make buoys and net that is connected to the ship but not rigidly - its bouncing due to wave movement should be independent, or every time ship rolls on waves buoys would jump out of the water. Same thing with trying to depict minesweepers while sweeping. Currently I have no clue how one would do it (but to tell the truth I haven't been looking into this much yet).

Worst case, as far as trawlers are concerned, one could make a docked version as part of port traffic, with nets deployed as separate "ship"...

I did not realize there was net fishing like that. I thought it was all drag... I have tried to "attach" two ships with a "cable" from the one to the other, so it looks like one is being towed... A "free-hanging" (or would that be "free-trailing"??) "cable" is attached to the "towing" ship with a bit of "overhang" to go into the "towed" ship. Looks fantastic when the test mission starts with the two ships as a "group", but then it gets really strange, when the towed ship tries to "avoid" the towing ship. Within a few minutes, the illusion is destroyed... sigh, and like you say, a little bit of sea bob, and the "cable" does some weird antics... Similarly, trying to put a walk-board between closely parked ships / subs doesn't work very well either... :arrgh!:

[kapuhy]

Hmm, looked into the animations a little bit and while I still have no way to make functional floats or nets, I think I'll be able to at least give the trawler animated sails.

[Mister_M]

Why not just add anti sub nets around the fishing units ? After all, fishing nets were dangerous for submarines... :O:

[Jeff-Groves]

The Nets could still bob up out of the water on ship movement unless run deep.

[Jeff-Groves]

I think I'll be able to at least give the trawler animated sails.
Can GR2 files use an animation from a Dat file?
:hmmm:

[kapuhy]

Can GR2 files use an animation from a Dat file?
:hmmm:

Looking at how flags are set up, it can at least use Dat format animated equipement. It won't be ideal because such sail won't cast dynamic shadow, but still better than motionless sail.

[kapuhy]

Slowly going forward :)

Added optional U-Boat deterrent to a fishing boat:

https://i.imgur.com/5MA78ZK.png

and in another part of shipyard, some progress on small freighter:

https://i.imgur.com/8NITFkM.png

[Aktungbby]

https://fishingbooker.com/blog/media/Commercial-fishing.jpg


Das Pic proves it! You're not nuts..just inseine !:arrgh!:

[Jeff-Groves]

Looking at how flags are set up, it can at least use Dat format animated equipement. It won't be ideal because such sail won't cast dynamic shadow, but still better than motionless sail.

:hmmm:
If you could send me your dat with animated sails?
I MIGHT be able to get them into the GR2 format.

[kapuhy]

:hmmm:
If you could send me your dat with animated sails?
I MIGHT be able to get them into the GR2 format.

Sounds great! I haven't finished it yet but as soon as it's ready I'll send you the file.

[kapuhy]

So, lineup for next update is this:

https://i.imgur.com/KjbiOFj.png

Two minesweepers, coaster, two tramp steamers and a ferry.

All ships on this screenshot are done modeling, texturing, and three of them are already in game and ready. Working on importing remaining three and then I'm planning to relase an update.

I might be able to squeeze a fishing boat into it of other work goes fast, but as it requires new texture set (or several, for variants), I might save it for next update.

[GrenSo]

So, lineup for next update is this:

https://i.imgur.com/KjbiOFj.png

Two minesweepers, coaster, two tramp steamers and a ferry.

All ships on this screenshot are done modeling, texturing, and three of them are already in game and ready. Working on importing remaining three and then I'm planning to relase an update.

I might be able to squeeze a fishing boat into it of other work goes fast, but as it requires new texture set (or several, for variants), I might save it for next update.


Very very nice! :Kaleun_Applaud:

[skin-nl]

They look very good kapuhy....keep up the good work :salute:

[Mister_M]

Incredible work ! :Kaleun_Applaud:

Did you plan variant skins for the merchant ships ? Red decks were probably not a good idea for sailing into WWII convoys. :hmmm:

[kapuhy]

Did you plan variant skins for the merchant ships ? Red decks were probably not a good idea for sailing into WWII convoys. :hmmm:

Yes, but not just for these. Merchant ships should ideally have two variants -
1) "peace" skin used for neutrals and nations that only recently joined the war and their ships are not repainted yet.
2) "war" skin for ships that were repainted into low visibility colours or produced during the war.

Now, my earlier coasters all have their "peace" skins so I will be making "war" skins for them but at the same time, why not go the other way around and prepare "peace" skins for stock ships that currently all wear late war camouflage even if it's September 1939 or they belong to neutral nations?

The tricky part is to configure the game so it assigns proper texture for time and nation the ship belongs to. While in theory this is easily configured by roster files, in practice it often does not work as intended (as is often the case with SH5). So there will be need for some pretty tedious testing...

[gap]

Can GR2 files use an animation from a Dat file?

They do Jeff; SH5 flags are keyframe-animated meshes just like SHIII and SHIV :yep:

Hmm, looked into the animations a little bit and while I still have no way to make functional floats or nets...

Have you checked the object_float controller? I have experimented with it in SHIII on a particle-generator-spawned object and it works like a charm. I am not sure that it will work as well on an object which is part of a sea unit, but I think it is worth a try.

...I think I'll be able to at least give the trawler animated sails.

Looking at how flags are set up, it can at least use Dat format animated equipement. It won't be ideal because such sail won't cast dynamic shadow, but still better than motionless sail.

cool but... a well-trimmed sail shouldn't flutter/flap in any notable way :hmmm:

Slowly going forward :)

Added optional U-Boat deterrent to a fishing boat:

https://i.imgur.com/5MA78ZK.png

and in another part of shipyard, some progress on small freighter:

https://i.imgur.com/8NITFkM.png

So, lineup for next update is this:

https://i.imgur.com/KjbiOFj.png

Two minesweepers, coaster, two tramp steamers and a ferry.

All ships on this screenshot are done modeling, texturing, and three of them are already in game and ready. Working on importing remaining three and then I'm planning to relase an update.

I might be able to squeeze a fishing boat into it of other work goes fast, but as it requires new texture set (or several, for variants), I might save it for next update.

I see some amazing stuff cooking for us :yeah:

how's your puffer? (no pressure, just curious ;) )

At this point a little pressure wouldn't be out of place lol.

You can read a couple of quick updates with screenies at the following posts in Jeff's Almageist thread:
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2780950&postcount=36
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2785150&postcount=45

[Demon777]

amazing job, Kapuhy! :salute:
very cool content for future TWOS updates! thanks!!

[kapuhy]

Have you checked the object_float controller? I have experimented with it in SHIII on a particle-generator-spawned object and it works like a charm. I am not sure that it will work as well on an object which is part of a sea unit, but I think it is worth a try.

I will check it out, but for now I decided to first focus on importing complete models. See, modeling is fun, seeing your ship in game is fun, but process of placing countless bones in proper positions is rather tedious, as a result I have growing number of finished models that wait for import :oops:

cool but... a well-trimmed sail shouldn't flutter/flap in any notable way :hmmm:

Perhaps a way to make it turn turret-like to follow the wind while ship turns would be better :hmmm:

[gap]

I will check it out, but for now I decided to first focus on importing complete models. See, modeling is fun, seeing your ship in game is fun, but process of placing countless bones in proper positions is rather tedious, as a result I have growing number of finished models that wait for import :oops:

I totally understand.

In case you get time for it, you might also try the object_pendulum controller or a combination of object_pendulum and object_float.


Perhaps a way to make it turn turret-like to follow the wind while ship turns would be better :hmmm:

Yes, you could set sail, boom and gaff as a fake rudder, in which case they would turn slightly when your boat changes course, and they would return in their original position once the boat is the on the new route. Alternatively, you could exploit this patch by TDW (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2195458&postcount=3128) for making the sail to always follow the apparent wind direction (real wind + boat motion). The latter method might be more realistic in some circumstances, but it might also lead to totally unrealistic outcomes at certain wind angles (a sail can only turn 180 deg, whereas the wind can come from all the directions; see the following drawing)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/UfbZI3Gi0OLOy-2vv29LtwJyWyHRMUIc4Kzw7wTJUS2n7Q3fYyDmbR1-N2aLgAX0RKPUoihLtFpOXlG1gmZZ4GmQ0heePcBbJgfgSa_-rHNpiwenmQ-JgG3mHHH6wflXxZKMqdq8sz6NR8jveOfgBmnOrp4

Both methods should be compatible with mesh animations. There is another important drawback inherent to both methods though. As you can see from the drawing above, the sail convexity changes when wind and sail turn from port to starboard and vice-versa. You can choose your sails to have the right convexity fo either side or, through keyframe animation, you can make the convex side to change randomly, but you can't make the sail to flip appropriately, according to its rotation.

[Mister_M]

Maybe it would be better to not add any sail. The trawler having a propeller, was her sail often used in real life ?

[gap]

Maybe it would be better to not add any sail. The trawler having a propeller, was her sail often used in real life ?

I can't say for sure about the kind of boat that kapuhy is working on, but probably what I wrote about puffers might apply to any kind of small vessel:


Talking in general, a mixed wind/engine propulsion can be used to spare fuel and increase top speed with favourable winds. As I have read, aboard puffers the jib sail was used on occasions. In game, the sail will be set as an optional equipment, so it will be rarely seen.
The plan that this model is based on also features a mainsail, but that was used very rarely (probably in case of emergencies as noted by kapuhy) and I decided not to include it in my model.

For my puffer I opted for a static sail, set as an optional equipment so that it won't appear all the times. That's the best compromise I could find between realism, eye candy and game limitations, but let's see if kapuhy finds a better solution :salute:

[kapuhy]

Maybe it would be better to not add any sail. The trawler having a propeller, was her sail often used in real life ?

About that... it's a case of mission creep really :)

First I wanted to create a very simple trawler based on NF_boat_1 template (easiest template to work with), but since trawler has 2 masts and a lifeboat I couldn't fit it in 16 meshes this template is limited to, so I decided to make masts as separate equipment taking cue from Gap's idea for his puffer. Then, since I was already making masts separate, I thought it would be cool to model two versions - with and without sail.

[kapuhy]

Progress report :)

Three remaining ships have been imported, they still require a lot of work (currently all three are indestructible, can't catch fire and lack water reflections, plus positions of some crewmen/parts need correcting), but at least they show up in game:

https://i.imgur.com/fCuyJBT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/hB9zTSz.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/118jyzT.jpg

Also added old 3pdr gun that was standard armament of Fairmile boats:

https://i.imgur.com/siVKuQX.jpg

[Mister_M]

Progress report :)
https://i.imgur.com/hB9zTSz.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/118jyzT.jpg


:Kaleun_Applaud:

So, these beauties are ready for import to SH3 too ? :)

[kapuhy]

So, these beauties are ready for import to SH3 too ? :)

They will be, as soon as their damage zones will be complete. Plus, there's still a bit of work with gun platforms on the stern (not visible on screenshots here but they will appear on both ships at later stages of the war together with grey paintjob).

[Mister_M]

They will be, as soon as their damage zones will be complete.

Well, the .zon file is useless for SH3 conversion... https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=251044

[kapuhy]

Well, the .zon file is useless for SH3 conversion... https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=251044

In this case, files are ready so if you'd like to give it a go, I'll send them to you.

[Mister_M]

In this case, files are ready so if you'd like to give it a go, I'll send them to you.

Yes sure. Waiting for 3D models and textures for both merchant ships ! :yep:

[gap]

Progress report :)

Three remaining ships have been imported, they still require a lot of work (currently all three are indestructible, can't catch fire and lack water reflections, plus positions of some crewmen/parts need correcting), but at least they show up in game

Amazing models and textures! :up:

Talking about damage, did you find how damage effects linked to .fx files are related to zone damage effects?

My guess is that if a box is damaged and if - according to the zone settings of that box - an certain effect is triggered, the game checks whether fx bones with the same effect linked to them are found within the box. If one or more matches are found, those bones are used as origin of the particle generation. If not, the effect is played at random (?) points within the box.

Does it sound plausible? :hmm2:

[Jeff-Groves]

Talking about damage, did you find how damage effects linked to .fx files are related to zone damage effects?


Your Kidding me right?
:hmmm:

[gap]

Your Kidding me right?
:hmmm:

Jeff, as much as I like kidding you I swear this time I am serious.
Enlighten me please :D

[kapuhy]

Talking about damage, did you find how damage effects linked to .fx files are related to zone damage effects?

My guess is that if a box is damaged and if - according to the zone settings of that box - an certain effect is triggered, the game checks whether fx bones with the same effect linked to them are found within the box. If one or more matches are found, those bones are used as origin of the particle generation. If not, the effect is played at random (?) points within the box.

Does it sound plausible? :hmm2:

Jeff, as much as I like kidding you I swear this time I am serious.
Enlighten me please :D

As far as I understand:
https://i.imgur.com/qvZoobD.png

EDIT: about the idea of checking whether bones are located within the box: stock SH5 ships have just one box for each "parent" fx node, never checked what happens if you set more than one. With one box per parent node its kinda moot point as the box covers entire area parent fx node is "responsible" for.

[Mister_M]

@Kapuhy : Thank you very much for the files of Armora, I've started conversion for SH3. :up:

I'm having trouble with the AO map though.

In Wings3D, I separated all sub-objects of "Hull1" object, and then combined only the sub-objects specific to the hull (I did the same process for "Hull1_AO" of course). In game, I have a "broken" AO-map as you can see on the screenshot below.

Also, the same problem appears on the funnel, although I didn't modify this object.

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2022/01/18//22011810505518069017754882.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/22011810505518069017754882.png.html)

[kapuhy]

@Kapuhy : Thank you very much for the files of Armora, I've started conversion for SH3. :up:

I'm having trouble with the AO map though.

In Wings3D, I separated all sub-objects of "Hull1" object, and then combined only the sub-objects specific to the hull (I did the same process for "Hull1_AO" of course). In game, I have a "broken" AO-map as you can see on the screenshot below.

Also, the same problem appears on the funnel, although I didn't modify this object.

Could you send me your exported .obj files? If I can take a look at them maybe I'll see why this happens.

[Mister_M]

Could you send me your exported .obj files? If I can take a look at them maybe I'll see why this happens.

PM sent.

[gap]

@ kapuhy

thank you for your answers!

Some points in your account of FX bones and damage boxes don't quite match my recollections, but unfortunately I have not the files in front of me. I will be back to you on this topic as soon as I re-install the game :salute:

@ Mister_M

You importing/exporting kapuhy's files to/from Wings3D before importing them in S3d, is the likely reason for the AO map corruption you are experiencing :yep:

[Mister_M]

@ Mister_M

You importing/exporting kapuhy's files to/from Wings3D before importing them in S3d, is the likely reason for the AO map corruption you are experiencing :yep:

Can these files be cured ? I need to modify some sub-objects.

Also, all the AO objects have been imported/exported with Wings3D, and I see no problem for them... (I did that because I had to rename them with -uv2 at the end, in order S3D can import both diffuse and AO obj at the same time ; If I rename directly the files, it doesn't work).

And rudder and propeller have been imported/exported as well, because I needed to change their rotation axis.

[gap]

Can these files be cured ? I need to modify some sub-objects.

Yes, in most cases they can, though at some point it might be more convenient making the changes directly in Blender.

Before I go into details on how a simple Wings3D import/export cycle can mess up a pair of UV1/UV2 obj files, and how we can fix the mismatches, I recommend you to get some theory on obj file architecture. Please read carefully the following post by me and report back if any point is not perfectly clear to you:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2786275#post2786275


Also, all the AO objects have been imported/exported with Wings3D, and I see no problem for them...

For relatively simple objects Wings might do a good job, but the higher the number of vertices, texture coordinates and faces, the more likely is that it will mess up things for us.


(I did that because I had to rename them with -uv2 at the end, in order S3D can import both diffuse and AO obj at the same time ; If I rename directly the files, it doesn't work).

Maybe this is happening because S3d expects an .mtl file with the same name as the .obj file to be available in the same folder, but the *_AO.obj file (renamed by you *_UV2.obj) still points to a .mtl file with the _AO suffix. To fix this issue open the obj file in notepad and change manually the following line:

mtllib *_AO.mtl

to:

mtllib *_UV2.mtl

[Mister_M]

Before I go into details on how a simple Wings3D import/export cycle can mess up a pair of UV1/UV2 obj files, and how we can fix the mismatches, I recommend you to get some theory on obj file architecture. Please read carefully the following post by me and report back if any point is not perfectly clear to you:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2786275#post2786275

Quite hard for me to understand. Vertice, vertex, what's the difference ? What's that ? Else, I know what a face is, and what a normal is (or I think). So, my problem would come from the second number in each triplet ?

Maybe this is happening because S3d expects an .mtl file with the same name as the .obj file to be available in the same folder, but the *_AO.obj file (renamed by you *_UV2.obj) still points to a .mtl file with the _AO suffix. To fix this issue open the obj file in notepad and change manually the following line:

mtllib *_AO.mtl

to:

mtllib *_UV2.mtl

No, mtllib *-uv2.mtl :O:

Edit : This solved the issue on the funnel. :yeah:

[gap]

Quite hard for me to understand. Vertice, vertex, what's the difference ? What's that ?

Isn't vertices the plural form of vertex? I.e. the points which, being connected by edges, compose faces. In a triangulated model, three vertices (or vertexes using an alternative spelling of the same word) delimit a single face.


Else, I know what a face is, and what a normal is (or I think). So, my problem would come from the second number in each triplet ?

Hard to say as I don't know how the information contained in obj files is read by S3d and how it is stored in a dat file, nonetheless, the most likely causes of wrong secondary UV map import are:

- different number/order of texture vertices (vt lines) in the UV2 model compared to the main model.

- different order of face definitions (f lines) in the UV2 model compared to the main model.

What I can tell you for sure is that if the main and the UV2 model are identical in all the respects except vt coordinate values, there is a 100% probability of success. With this idea in mind I have created an Excel spreadsheet which sorts vt coordinates for us. It is a rather crude tool, it requires a lot of manual data filtering, cutting and pasting; any mistake will cause wrong results, but if used correctly it does its job just fine.

If you are interested into testing it, I can upload it somewhere and post its link in the Almagest thread where it belongs more than here. Sorry kapuhy for kidnapping one of your threads again :D


No, mtllib *-uv2.mtl :O:

Edit : This solved the issue on the funnel. :yeah:

:up:

[Mister_M]

EDIT. I've posted this into the Almagest thread. Sorry Kapuhy for hijaking your thread. :oops:

By the way, I love your small tramp steamer "Armora", both for 3D model and texture. It's very clean without being too heavy. Great work !

:Kaleun_Applaud:

[Alex.B]

https://i.imgur.com/118jyzT.jpg

:Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:


We are waiting in SH3

[Mister_M]

We are waiting in SH3

Coming soon...

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2022/01/28//22012810001918069017770492.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/22012810001918069017770492.png.html)

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2022/01/28//22012810001018069017770490.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/22012810001018069017770490.png.html)

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2022/01/28//22012810001218069017770491.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/22012810001218069017770491.png.html)

[kapuhy]

Coming soon...

:Kaleun_Applaud: nice progress, it might turn out it will be available for SH3 sooner than SH5 :)

[iambecomelife]

Such a beautiful steamer! The pic of it sinking makes me feel bad. :haha:

[kapuhy]

@ kapuhy

thank you for your answers!

Some points in your account of FX bones and damage boxes don't quite match my recollections, but unfortunately I have not the files in front of me. I will be back to you on this topic as soon as I re-install the game :salute:

Since I got to the phase where I do FX for new ships I was able to do a little test. I cleared all effects from all FX bones except for two "low tier" aka "L1" bones (lets call them B1 and B2), both sharing the same parent bone (PB). I then created two boxes for PB bone, one of which covered position of bone B1 and other, position of bone B2. I loaded up the game and put a bunch of shells into ships bow aiming at box Z2.

https://i.imgur.com/63Nl2Mf.png

If game checked positions of bones against damaged box, I expected only effect B2 to play, but instead both played out as soon as damage to Z2 box exceeded 40% requied for L1 effects to play.

So no, it appears game only uses positions of fx bones to anchor their effects in 3d space, not to decide which ones to play out. Also, making multiple boxes for single parent fx bone does not make game "divide" effects between boxes - all effects will play out as soon as one box sustains enough damage to trigger them.

[gap]

Since I got to the phase where I do FX for new ships I was able to do a little test. I cleared all effects from all FX bones except for two "low tier" aka "L1" bones (lets call them B1 and B2), both sharing the same parent bone (PB). I then created two boxes for PB bone, one of which covered position of bone B1 and other, position of bone B2. I loaded up the game and put a bunch of shells into ships bow aiming at box Z2.

https://i.imgur.com/63Nl2Mf.png

If game checked positions of bones against damaged box, I expected only effect B2 to play, but instead both played out as soon as damage to Z2 box exceeded 40% requied for L1 effects to play.

So no, it appears game only uses positions of fx bones to anchor their effects in 3d space, not to decide which ones to play out. Also, making multiple boxes for single parent fx bone does not make game "divide" effects between boxes - all effects will play out as soon as one box sustains enough damage to trigger them.

Okay, thank you for testing and reporting your findings here.

If I got you correctly:

- damage boxes tell the game where to hit for triggering certain damage effects;

- damage zones (assigned to various boxes) decide which effects should be played and at which level of damage;

- FX bones determine position/orientation of the played effects.


In other words (correct me if I am wrong):

- if a box located let's say near the bow gets assigned a zone with a fire effect among its effects;

- if that box is damaged beyond the level which triggers the fire effect;

- if "fire bones" are equally distributed along the ship:

the whole ship will be set on fire, not only her bow.


On a side note, I think it is legitimate assuming that if no fx bones are found for a given effect, the effect will originate (only) from the center of the damaged box triggering it. E.g. in stock games aircraft have no FX file assigned; if an engine nacelle is damaged, we can expect a black smoke trail to originate from there and only from there :hmmm:

[kapuhy]

If I got you correctly:

- damage boxes tell the game where to hit for triggering certain damage effects;

Yes, damage boxes assigned to FX bones work exactly like standard SH3 style damage boxes. You hit part of DMG_col model within boundaries of the box, zone that is assigned to this box gets damaged.

- damage zones (assigned to various boxes) decide which effects should be played and at which level of damage;

All boxes that are defined for FX "parent" bones have been assigned only one type of damage zone - the New_FX_Zone1, only zone in Zones.cfg file that does use FX gr2 file's bones at all.

Here's how this zone is defined:


[New_FX_Zone1]
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=0.000000
HitPoints=180
Destructible=No
Effect1=FX_L1, 40
Effect2=FX_L1, 60
Effect2=FX_L2, 60
Effect4=FX_L1, 85
Effect5=FX_L2, 85
Effect3=FX_L3, 95
Armor Level=20
Critic Flotation=0.300000
Critical=No
FloodingTime=60
CargoType=None
Crash Depth=0.01


It doesn't care at all about which type of effect is assigned through controllers to an FX bone. Only thing it pays attention to is how the FX bone is named. All these "child" fx bones that fx controllers are assigned to are named like this:

FX_LX_Dummy_Y

where X is either 1,2 or 3 and Y is I guess like bone's index number. So the zone definition basically says: "play all effects that are assigned to L1 bones at 40% damage", then "play all effects assigned to L1 and L2 bones at 60% damage" and so on.

You can asssign any FX effect to any "child" bone so nothing stops you from having fire, explosion, and lets say water splash all assigned to different "FX_L1" bones in FX file - and they will all play when damage reaches 40%, as long as their bones have "FX_L1" in their name

- FX bones determine position/orientation of the played effects.

Yes.


In other words (correct me if I am wrong):

- if a box located let's say near the bow gets assigned a zone with a fire effect among its effects;

- if that box is damaged beyond the level which triggers the fire effect;

- if "fire bones" are equally distributed along the ship:

the whole ship will be set on fire, not only her bow.

You can distribute bones wherever you wish and assign any type of effect to any of them, as long as their names match what's defined in New_FX_Zone1 shown above - they will all trigger.


On a side note, I think it is legitimate assuming that if no fx bones are found for a given effect, the effect will originate (only) from the center of the damaged box triggering it. E.g. in stock games aircraft have no FX file assigned; if an engine nacelle is damaged, we can expect a black smoke trail to originate from there and only from there :hmmm:

Only zone that makes any use of fx bones is New_FX_Zone1. All other types of damage zones that you can assign to damage boxes work like they worked in SH3/4 - they have effects specified in their zone definition and these effects will indeed originate from center of the box. In fact even stock SH5 ships use SH3 style zones for a lot of things. On the other hand - nothing stops you from assigning engine smoke to one of fx bones as well and if you do that, you'll have it trigger (at location of fx bone you assigned it to) the way I described above - when damage to New_FX_Zone1 reaches 40%.

Overall - I think the FX files in SH5 are very under-utilized at the moment, and with some creativity you could do basically any combination of effects trigger whenever and wherever you wish, it would just require creating more zones that use FX file and more variations of FX bone names. At its heart though, entire FX file is just a fancy way to have effects trigger in different places than center of the box.

[Jeff-Groves]

Very good post on the FX files.
:up:

Now that people can understand how they work?
Think of the crazy stuff one could possibly do!
:03:

Say a panicked Crew man jumps off the ship at the Bow when torpedoed at the Stern and such.

[kapuhy]

Did you plan variant skins for the merchant ships ? Red decks were probably not a good idea for sailing into WWII convoys. :hmmm:

Late war grey painting:
https://i.imgur.com/2TbFJ2W.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PWmrkfM.jpg

[Mister_M]

Late war grey painting:
https://i.imgur.com/2TbFJ2W.jpg

:Kaleun_Applaud:

https://i.imgur.com/PWmrkfM.jpg

I think that a black hull would not have been repainted in grey. Only superstructures and funnel... https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2776164&postcount=37

[kapuhy]

I think that a black hull would not have been repainted in grey. Only superstructures and funnel...

As in the case of tacos, why not have both? Adding a variant with black hull and grey superstructure will be easy, and then it's even more varied.

[Mister_M]

Yes, ok. Maybe your could add different shades of grey. I think a lighter grey would be more appropriate.

[Mister_M]

Waiting for your war skins to release the SH3 conversion of Armora tramp steamer. :) :up:

The answer is probably obvious, but I guess that this class of ship was only sailing near the coast, and never into atlantic/arctic/med convoys...

[iambecomelife]

Really like how one of them is a Long Bridge Deck type merchant ... great eye for detail. They were pretty common for companies that needed to ship high volume/low density cargo like cotton or grain....until postwar designs made them obsolete.

Also like that they are low tonnage, unlike the big Liberty & C2 ships you always see in the Silent Hunter series - ships as small as 1,000 GRT were pressed into service in Atlantic convoys, bc every cargo ship was valuable in wartime. This is good to counteract "tonnage inflation". :up:

[Mister_M]

Really like how one of them is a Long Bridge Deck type merchant ... great eye for detail. They were pretty common for companies that needed to ship high volume/low density cargo like cotton or grain....until postwar designs made them obsolete.

Also like that they are low tonnage, unlike the big Liberty & C2 ships you always see in the Silent Hunter series - ships as small as 1,000 GRT were pressed into service in Atlantic convoys, bc every cargo ship was valuable in wartime. This is good to counteract "tonnage inflation". :up:

Yes, the most common merchant ships which were sailing into convoys are never modeled...

Kapuhy's merchants are around 2000 tons of displacement. But that's different than GRT !!!

[kapuhy]

Waiting for your war skins to release the SH3 conversion of Armora tramp steamer. :) :up:

Here - grey skin from screenshots above and AO map with some rust (unlike first version I sent you before which was too clean for such old ship).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bOcBo8EcC86HTdB6fhnl7UZ89q05tm1I/view?usp=sharing

The answer is probably obvious, but I guess that this class of ship was only sailing near the coast, and never into atlantic/arctic/med convoys...

In arctic or atlantic, probably pretty rare but med and gibraltar convoys did include a lot of similar ships:

https://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ship/687.html
https://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ship/704.html
https://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ship/1121.html
https://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ship/1120.html

Kapuhy's merchants are around 2000 tons of displacement. But that's different than GRT !!!

Small Freighter is modeled after SS Aslaug (1599 GRT, built in 1927) and Small Tramp Steamer after SS Armora (1903 GRT, built in 1911).

Also like that they are low tonnage, unlike the big Liberty & C2 ships you always see in the Silent Hunter series - ships as small as 1,000 GRT were pressed into service in Atlantic convoys, bc every cargo ship was valuable in wartime. This is good to counteract "tonnage inflation". :up:

That's one of reasons I started this mod - ship roster in stock SH5 looks like trying to simulate road transport network by using only 18-wheelers.

[Mister_M]

Here - grey skin from screenshots above and AO map with some rust (unlike first version I sent you before which was too clean for such old ship).

Thank you ! Unfortunately, SH3 uses the AO map only to apply "shadows" on surfaces, not anything else, like rust or dirt... :-?

[Mister_M]

With your new AO texture (rust) :hmmm: :

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2022/02/19//22021903251118069017801329.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/22021903251118069017801329.png.html)

[Mister_M]

New texture :

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2022/02/21//22022103465718069017804635.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/22022103465718069017804635.png.html)

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2022/02/21//22022103465818069017804636.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/22022103465818069017804636.png.html)

----------

Note :

If I open your dds files with Paint.net, the full transparent dark pixels are deleted : when I change transparency to have no transparency at all, this is what I get (I added a purple background so you can see the deleted pixels) :

https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2022/02/21//22022103562018069017804650.png (https://www.casimages.com/i/22022103562018069017804650.png.html)

This is why I prefer that you send me .tga files without transparent pixels.

[gap]

Thank you ! Unfortunately, SH3 uses the AO map only to apply "shadows" on surfaces, not anything else, like rust or dirt... :-?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't remember a single SHIII ship using an AO map. If memory serves, in SHIII you can have either an AO map or a normal map assigned to each material, and most if not all the ships (both stock and custom-made) have materials using the later map. This is not an insurmountable problem, as the AO map could be blended with the diffuse map (most stock SH5 aircraft use this method), but to be able to use this workaround every single unit would require its UV mapping redone, and the new textures would need to be bigger indeed.

[Mister_M]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't remember a single SHIII ship using an AO map.

Correct.

If memory serves, in SHIII you can have either an AO map or a normal map assigned to each material

Correct.

most if not all the ships (both stock and custom-made) have materials using the later map.

You mean a SPECULAR map. And the specular effect of SH3 ships is not correctly set, so the effect doesn't work in game, even if it's possible to make it work. But S3D doesn't enable to modifiy the proper parameter. But you can make it work by copy-paste of the fake propeller texture of the Stuka for example, this material will handle transparent pixels. Remember, this is the same problem as for semi-transparent textures, when we worked on your super realistic flags textures. BTW, haven't you released this mod yet ?

This is not an insurmountable problem, as the AO map could be blended with the diffuse map (most stock SH5 aircraft use this method)

Yes, this can be done with World of warships' models, since the AO map has exactly the same coordinates as the diffuse texture. So, you just have to blend diffuse with AO, and then apply transparency (transforming the black & white texture into alpha channel) of the specular mask.

but to be able to use this workaround every single unit would require its UV mapping redone, and the new textures would need to be bigger indeed.

Yes.

[GeneralDeath99]

How goes it? Taken a look at this thread and got to say, your models look mighty fine! Cant wait to see more in game!

[kapuhy]

How goes it? Taken a look at this thread and got to say, your models look mighty fine! Cant wait to see more in game!

I had to take a break from modding in February because we have moved into new house and there was an endless list of things that needed to be done, leaving me with no time or energy for hobbies. I hope to return to this and other unfinished projects by the end of this month.

As for status, six new ships I was working on are all ready and imported into game, but there's still some work remaining in order for them to appear properly in campaign. More specifically:

- Two new ships are minesweepers, and they need minesweeping patrol spawns and nodes to be added to campaign in order to appear in game.
- Some coasters appear very rarely because most countries that use them do not have coastal traffic added to campaign.
- I'm still stuck on texture problems - I wanted ships to change textures and maybe even use navigation lights reflecting their status (neutral/belligerent) during the war, but way SH5 handles textures leads to constant problems with ships "borrowing" wrong texture from another vessel using the same model. There's also an unresolved bug that prevents minesweepers from using varying camouflages.

I hope to fix all the above and relase new ships sometime in August (provided real life doesn't throw a new wrench into my plans).

[U-190]

I had to take a break from modding in February because we have moved into new house and there was an endless list of things that needed to be done, leaving me with no time or energy for hobbies. I hope to return to this and other unfinished projects by the end of this month.

As for status, six new ships I was working on are all ready and imported into game, but there's still some work remaining in order for them to appear properly in campaign. More specifically:

- Two new ships are minesweepers, and they need minesweeping patrol spawns and nodes to be added to campaign in order to appear in game.
- Some coasters appear very rarely because most countries that use them do not have coastal traffic added to campaign.
- I'm still stuck on texture problems - I wanted ships to change textures and maybe even use navigation lights reflecting their status (neutral/belligerent) during the war, but way SH5 handles textures leads to constant problems with ships "borrowing" wrong texture from another vessel using the same model. There's also an unresolved bug that prevents minesweepers from using varying camouflages.

I hope to fix all the above and relase new ships sometime in August (provided real life doesn't throw a new wrench into my plans).
It's nice to hear that! :up:

[gap]

- I'm still stuck on texture problems - I wanted ships to change textures and maybe even use navigation lights reflecting their status (neutral/belligerent) during the war, but way SH5 handles textures leads to constant problems with ships "borrowing" wrong texture from another vessel using the same model.

Probably we already discussed that, but why don't you create illuminated windows/portholes as separate equipment? Indeed by adopting this method you should give up illumination effects on decks, superstructure, funnels etc. Moreover each vessel would need its own set of lights (you could keep each light separate so to use the same generic elements on more than one ship, but their placement would be a PITA). In any case, for small ships as your coasters, I think the above limits would be an acceptable price for bypassing the LOD texture problem.

Another possible compromise might be giving up LOD models. That would be a waste of computer resources but after all we already imported in game many dat units which have no support for LODs, and the game handles them decently.


There's also an unresolved bug that prevents minesweepers from using varying camouflages.

Really? What is special about minesweeper's texture assignment? :doh:


I hope to fix all the above and relase new ships sometime in August (provided real life doesn't throw a new wrench into my plans).

:yeah:

[kapuhy]

Probably we already discussed that, but why don't you create illuminated windows/portholes as separate equipment?

Last time I tried the light from these illuminated parts disappeared at LOD switch range, but I might recheck that as m memory is fuzzy on details.

Another possible compromise might be giving up LOD models.

The problem is not just LOD models although their scrapping would solve a lot of issues. What I fear is situation where single brightly colored neutral ship wanders into vicinity of huge Allied convoy and all ships in the convoy decide to use "neutral" skin (this happens if neutral ship is a clone of regular "grey" merchants or vice versa).

Really? What is special about minesweeper's texture assignment? :doh:

I made a thread on the subject some time ago - never managed to solve it:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=250744

This happens to any of my ships I try to make multiple AO maps for (diffuse textures work fine).

[GrenSo]

Last time I tried the light from these illuminated parts disappeared at LOD switch range, but I might recheck that as m memory is fuzzy on details.



The problem is not just LOD models although their scrapping would solve a lot of issues. What I fear is situation where single brightly colored neutral ship wanders into vicinity of huge Allied convoy and all ships in the convoy decide to use "neutral" skin (this happens if neutral ship is a clone of regular "grey" merchants or vice versa).



I made a thread on the subject some time ago - never managed to solve it:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=250744

This happens to any of my ships I try to make multiple AO maps for (diffuse textures work fine).


Sounds like the issue silentmichal and I can't solve with the ladder in CR room in silentmichal's new interior mod v1.2.3 and my version v2.0 of it (last picture): https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2816147&postcount=596

[gap]

Last time I tried the light from these illuminated parts disappeared at LOD switch range, but I might recheck that as m memory is fuzzy on details.

Do guns disappear at LOD distance? If they do, light equipment will disappear as well. If not, I don't see why they should behave in a different way than any other equipment. Depending on their size and on screen resolution they might become so small that the game won't render them, but this is not LOD-related.


The problem is not just LOD models although their scrapping would solve a lot of issues. What I fear is situation where single brightly colored neutral ship wanders into vicinity of huge Allied convoy and all ships in the convoy decide to use "neutral" skin (this happens if neutral ship is a clone of regular "grey" merchants or vice versa).

Yes, that's a known game limit. SH5 loads only one "copy" of each 3D model at any given time. If different versions of the same unit are rendered at the same time, all of them will display the same texture. I can't say whether the same applies to equipment though.

Confusing an allied or axis vessel for a neutral one would be somehow acceptable. As we have seen in my thread on wartime ship colors, vessels of many neutral countries sailed within allied convoys while still retaining peacetime colors or even neutrality markings (and they were considered valid targets by the Germans). Likewise, many German blockade-runners disguised themselves as neutral vessels, so again some confusion might even be realistic.
On the other hand, confusing a neutral vessel for an allied one might lead to some very bad outcomes, as destroying one of them will result in a renown penalty and even to CTDs. The one solution for avoiding that, is having two "physical" copies of the very same ships if we plan to use them both on the allied/axis and on the neutral side.


I made a thread on the subject some time ago - never managed to solve it:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=250744

This happens to any of my ships I try to make multiple AO maps for (diffuse textures work fine).

Weird. Does that apply only to minesweepers? Have you tried if switching unit type solves the problem? :hmmm:

[kapuhy]

Do guns disappear at LOD distance? If they do, light equipment will disappear as well. If not, I don't see why they should behave in a different way than any other equipment. Depending on their size and on screen resolution they might become so small that the game won't render them, but this is not LOD-related.

I'll dig out my old test mod for this and write more then, as I said I'm not sure of details now.

EDIT: Ok I found it. Video below shows the issue:

https://youtu.be/THP_M8xnuG8

One of my coasters, with Mk.9L Shining Depth Charges strapped to its bridge, using emissive material modeled after control room lightbulbs (your idea :) ). Light disappears even before LOD switch. It's hard to see in this video but crew figures remain visible even after lights do not.

Weird. Does that apply only to minesweepers? Have you tried if switching unit type solves the problem? :hmmm:

Any ship I tried to use more than one AO map on. On the other side I know it does work properly on Flower corvette (which has several AO skins in TWoS). So either it's a mistake I repeated in all my ships or maybe something resulting from using GR2 Editor (which would also explain why multi-AO stock ships are unaffected).

[gap]

I'll dig out my old test mod for this and write more then, as I said I'm not sure of details now.

Okay, I will look forward to your updates :up:


Any ship I tried to use more than one AO map on. On the other side I know it does work properly on Flower corvette (which has several AO skins in TWoS). So either it's a mistake I repeated in all my ships or maybe something resulting from using GR2 Editor (which would also explain why multi-AO stock ships are unaffected).

mmm... in that case I lean to believe that ship type has nothing to do with your problem, but just to be sure, you could set up your unit as a corvette (or any other unit type which has multiple AO maps assigned) and see if that makes any change.
On the other hand, if the culprit was GR2 editor I would expect the primary AO map to be broken as well as the others, but this is not the case obviously :hmmm:

[gap]

EDIT: Ok I found it. Video below shows the issue:

https://youtu.be/THP_M8xnuG8

One of my coasters, with Mk.9L Shining Depth Charges strapped to its bridge, using emissive material modeled after control room lightbulbs (your idea :) ). Light disappears even before LOD switch. It's hard to see in this video but crew figures remain visible even after lights do not.

Okay, thank you for sharing this video. I think I know what's going on.
In SH5 the visibility of distant objects is proportional to the dimensions of its bounding sphere. I noticed that while working on the model of a sea stack near Helgoland; its visibility was toggled off way before the one of other nearby terrain objects, and I couldn't discover what was causing that until I increased its size. I don't know if that applies only to terrain objects (and possibly any object imported in the GR2 file of stock terrain objects) or to every non-unit object though.

Try doing this: import your lights in a stock equipment file. One of the GR2 files where depth charges, bombs, or torpedoes are stored, should fit our needs. If that doesn't make your lights visible from a longer distance, switch to any GR2 file with two (or more) meshes on the same object. Use one of the meshes for storing your lights, make the other mesh invisible, import a big object in it (a huge single-faced triangle will do), and see what's happening in game. I am pretty confident that at least one of the above methods will solve for good the issue documented in your video :salute:

[Mister_M]

Hello Kapuhy !


Long time since last news about your beautiful ship models ! Any progress so far ?


By the way, can you confirm that your coastal tanker is a Mettawee-class gasoline tanker ? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mettawee-class_gasoline_tanker)





6. Coastal Tanker

https://i.imgur.com/A16lX78.jpg

613 GRT Coastal Tanker is based on historic American tanker Mary A. Whalen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_A._Whalen_(tanker)), built in 1938. She survives to this day in Red Hook, Brooklyn, crewed and maintained by members of PortSide NewYork (https://portsidenewyork.org/). Mary has became famous after her 1968 grounding, which led to court case shaping modern US maritime law.

In game, she'll be seen carrying fuel on coastal trading lanes (only British, American and
Norwegian in this version). From 1943 onwards, she can be armed with some machine guns.

[kapuhy]

Hello Kapuhy !
Long time since last news about your beautiful ship models ! Any progress so far ?

Well the bad news is, still not ready. Good news is, almost ready as I finally got back to working on them :)

By the way, can you confirm that your coastal tanker is a Mettawee-class gasoline tanker ? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mettawee-class_gasoline_tanker)

It's not - look at the first sentence of description you've just quoted :)

[Mister_M]

Well the bad news is, still not ready. Good news is, almost ready as I finally got back to working on them :)


Happy to hear that ! :yep:


It's not - look at the first sentence of description you've just quoted :)


Thank you for clarifying.

[kapuhy]

New update for TWoS 2.2.25 users is ready:

Little Ships of SH5 v.1.1 (https://www.mediafire.com/file/v6atcjm02rqwdce/Little_Ships_1.1_for_TWoS_2225.rar/file)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZx2wnXC82c

Six new ships:
- Single Hatch Coaster
- Motor Mailboat
- Small Freighter
- Small Tramp Steamer
- YMS Minesweeper
- Hunt Minesweeper

https://i.imgur.com/pKEpG8Y.jpg

New weapons for Fairmiles: Fairmile Motor Launch now uses heavy kicking but inaccurate Hotchkiss 3pdr on surface and Depth Charge Chutes against submerged U-Boats

New coastal routes:Coastal traffic added for Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands, Sweden, Ireland, Germany, Italy, Canada, Brasil, Cuba, South Africa, Soviet Union. Coastal traffic for Monsun Gruppe campaign replaced with more varied groups that will also sometimes have patrol ships as escorts.

Minesweeper Patrols American and British coast will be regularly patrolled by newly added minesweepers. They will also sometimes appear close to ports, clearing port approaches.

[Dönitz78]

Gorgeous ! Thank you for your work !

[GrenSo]

Thanks for the update kapuhy. Looks great, like your first version. :up:

[kapuhy]

Hotfix: vdr1981 found and fixed a bug in one of my files, FishingNorth.mis - download links are updated with correct file, if you already downloaded and don't want to redownload whole thing - fixed FishingNorth.mis is here:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/r247a...North.mis/file

It needs to be replaced in campaign folder in every campaign where it exists (reminder - don't replace files in main game folder but in mod folder, then just disable and reenable mod)

[iambecomelife]

Nothing to criticize here; these new ships are so clean, well-modeled, and much needed! Far too many games focus on hulking C-3's, T2 tankers, etc....I have a 1939 worldwide merchant ship list, and it shows that much of the world's merchant tonnage was still small ships like these. The small warships are a nice plus too!

[GrenSo]

Is this new version compatible with your Air Force - SH5 planes pack for TWoS 2.2.24?
I ask, because there is a conflict with Names.cfg files of it.

[kapuhy]

Is this new version compatible with your Air Force - SH5 planes pack for TWoS 2.2.24?
I ask, because there is a conflict with Names.cfg files of it.

Good catch, and no, not at the moment. I'll make a compatibility fix. For now, if you want them working together, you need to enable Little Ships 1.1. after Airforce, and manually add following lines to Names.cfg (both in Roster and data folders):

LBSUSEarlyWarB18B=B-18B Bolo
LBWhitley=Whitley Bomber
TBSGrumanJ2F=Grumman J2F "Duck"

This is because both mods modify Names.cfg so you want to have entries for new units from both of them.

[GrenSo]

Good catch, and no, not at the moment. I'll make a compatibility fix. For now, if you want them working together, you need to enable Little Ships 1.1. after Airforce, and manually add following lines to Names.cfg (both in Roster and data folders):

LBSUSEarlyWarB18B=B-18B Bolo
LBWhitley=Whitley Bomber
TBSGrumanJ2F=Grumman J2F "Duck"

This is because both mods modify Names.cfg so you want to have entries for new units from both of them.

I think there is something more as only the Name.cfg incompatible, because the recognition manual doesn't work and the color function from the automations scrips too. And this happens also if I just enable Little Ships 1.1 for TWoS 2.2.25.

Normal function:
https://i.postimg.cc/Z5QLXpwh/SH5-Img-2023-05-18-15-54-54.jpg

With only enabled Little Ships 1.1 for TWoS 2.2.25 with any other mods:
https://i.postimg.cc/zvqwTjGT/SH5-Img-2023-05-18-15-57-47.jpg

[kapuhy]

I think there is something more as only the Name.cfg incompatible, because the recognition manual doesn't work and the color function from the automations scrips too. And this happens also if I just enable Little Ships 1.1 for TWoS 2.2.25

Right now I have no idea, I'll have to try reproducing this issue. Just to make sure, you didn't enable mod mid-patrol?

[GrenSo]

Right now I have no idea, I'll have to try reproducing this issue. Just to make sure, you didn't enable mod mid-patrol?


I started a new campaign for testing a GSE light version and had this issue there. But I had you both mods enabled.
After some hours of testing with historical mission, I found out, that I got this issue only with your new little ship mod. And in my last test, where I made the screenshots and wrote here, I deactivated all mods and JGSME was empty and enable only little ships 1.1.


May be, I can try a reinstallation of TWoS and try again?! :hmmm:

[GrenSo]

Update

I'm done now a complete uninstallation of SH5 and deleted all files of it. Then done a reinstallation with all patches of SH5 and start it first time as stock game. After this, I install TWoS 2.2.25 and use the "The Wolves of Steel 2.2_SH5 Expansion Pack_v2.2.25_Full.exe" and started SH5 after this without any mods and done ingame settings. Everything works fine at this moment and I start it without any mods again to be sure. At this point I had a complete new and untouched TWoS 2.2.25 installation.

At the next point, I only enable "Little Ships 1.1 for TWoS 2225" and started SH5 again with sh5.exe and had exactly the same issue. Then I disabled "Little Ships 1.1 for TWoS 2225" and started SH5 with sh5.exe again and everything works fine again. To be sure, I enabled only "Little Ships 1.1 for TWoS 2225" again and got again this issue.

But I noticed, that the black screen of loading TWoS was with enabled "Little Ships 1.1 for TWoS 2225" just for a few seconds. Without and and just TWoS with no other enabled mods, the black screen be there for 3 or 4 minutes like every time.

https://i.postimg.cc/np5BNyfv/Screenshot-2023-05-18-165855.jpg

[kapuhy]

Update

I'm done now a complete uninstallation of SH5 and deleted all files of it. Then done a reinstallation with all patches of SH5 and start it first time as stock game. After this, I install TWoS 2.2.25 and use the "The Wolves of Steel 2.2_SH5 Expansion Pack_v2.2.25_Full.exe" and started SH5 after this without any mods and done ingame settings. Everything works fine at this moment and I start it without any mods again to be sure. At this point I had a complete new and untouched TWoS 2.2.25 installation.

At the next point, I only enable "Little Ships 1.1 for TWoS 2225" and started SH5 again with sh5.exe and had exactly the same issue. Then I disabled "Little Ships 1.1 for TWoS 2225" and started SH5 with sh5.exe again and everything works fine again. To be sure, I enabled only "Little Ships 1.1 for TWoS 2225" again and got again this issue.

But I noticed, that the black screen of loading TWoS was with enabled "Little Ships 1.1 for TWoS 2225" just for a few seconds. Without and and just TWoS with no other enabled mods, the black screen be there for 3 or 4 minutes like every time.

https://i.postimg.cc/np5BNyfv/Screenshot-2023-05-18-165855.jpg

Thanks for taking time to test it :salute:

I managed to reproduce the problem. I didn't catch it earlier because I mostly run SH5 with SOAN disabled (these long loading times are a pain when you constantly enter/exit the game to test mod changes). As for the cause, for the moment I'm clueless - I am 100% sure none of my files change anything in either scripts or SOAN options.

[GrenSo]

Thanks for taking time to test it :salute:
I managed to reproduce the problem. I didn't catch it earlier because I mostly run SH5 with SOAN disabled (these long loading times are a pain when you constantly enter/exit the game to test mod changes).

I know what you mean. Sometimes it takes much longer to test a small change, because of this long loading time, as the change take. :D


As for the cause, for the moment I'm clueless - I am 100% sure none of my files change anything in either scripts or SOAN options.

I'm with you. I can't find in your files any reason. I toke just a short look. But like I told, if I enabled "Little Ships 1.1 for TWoS 2225" the loading time is just a few seconds.

[kapuhy]

like I told, if I enabled "Little Ships 1.1 for TWoS 2225" the loading time is just a few seconds.

Which would point to TDW's Automation and UserOptions Python scripts not working. But why? No idea, I'll try to test it some more.

EDIT: Ok, I managed to find the bug and fix it. It was caused by a typo in Bulgarian freighter's roster file setting its disappearance date to non-existing day. How is freighter's disappearance date connected with disabling Python scripts? No idea.

Download links updated, big thanks to GrenSo for spotting and reporting it :up:

[denis_469]

What new ships You made?

[GrenSo]

EDIT: Ok, I managed to find the bug and fix it. It was caused by a typo in Bulgarian freighter's roster file setting its disappearance date to non-existing day. How is freighter's disappearance date connected with disabling Python scripts? No idea.


Sorry but I saw just now your edit and will download it again, test and report on weekend.
I can‘t tell you the reason, because my knowledge in python is not the best one. I also fight at the moment with the script of the grammophon to open and close the lid.


Download links updated, big thanks to GrenSo for spotting and reporting it :up:


Your welcome. :salute:

[Kal_Maximus_U669]

Thanks for taking time to test it :salute:

I managed to reproduce the problem. I didn't catch it earlier because I mostly run SH5 with SOAN disabled (these long loading times are a pain when you constantly enter/exit the game to test mod changes). As for the cause, for the moment I'm clueless - I am 100% sure none of my files change anything in either scripts or SOAN options.

Hey kapuhy my best regards...
did you empty the "backup" in TWoS_Parts...??? ... the loading times piss me off in this game, that's why I stopped "tinkering"

[kapuhy]

Hey kapuhy my best regards...
did you empty the "backup" in TWoS_Parts...??? ... the loading times piss me off in this game, that's why I stopped "tinkering"

I don't quite understand the question. The loading times are not dependent on my mod, you can cut them down by quite abit by disabling SOAN in Options Editor though.

What new ships You made?

You'll find the list in this post:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2868042&postcount=177

[Kal_Maximus_U669]

Originally Posted by Kal_Maximus_U669 View Post
Hey kapuhy my best regards...
did you empty the "backup" in TWoS_Parts...??? ... the loading times piss me off in this game, that's why I stopped "tinkering"

I don't quite understand the question. The loading times are not dependent on my mod, you can cut them down by quite abit by disabling SOAN in Options Editor though.

I did not say that ...
I said the game takes a long time to load... when you want to make more personal edits to try out... it's very boring...
For the "Backup" I was talking about the one inside "TWoS_Parts"
and eliminate these old backups but sometimes this is not enough because of "UPCData" other things modified in the game database which leads to problems afterwards..d or the interest of having a "Backup" of its game installation. ..
My best regards and a big thank you for your nice work here friendly Kal Maximus U669 :salute::salute:

[GrenSo]

Hi Kaputy,


I'm not to 100 % sure but I think there is an issue with your new little ship version 1.1 and the SOAN entries of Aslaug (Small Freighter) and Armora (Small Tramp Steamer). The issue is, that the "NKS_Armora_sil.dds" and "NKS_Aslaug_sil.dds" are not shown in the SOA.

Here you can see what I mean, if I start with the entry of the Catapult Ship, I select before one chimney, and went to right side.

https://i.postimg.cc/mDYzRc9v/SH5-Img-2023-08-05-14-36-49.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/gj4xXfN4/SH5-Img-2023-08-05-14-36-54.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/YCThWNzc/SH5-Img-2023-08-05-14-37-02.png

The same I have if I went to the left side at starting, with same selection, at EMS Typ Frighter. The otherones, like YMS, Saltash, Lochiel or Kyle are fine.

[GrenSo]

Hi Kapuhy,


did you had the time to look into the problem with the SOAN and the two ships, Small Freighter and Small Tramp Steamer from your version 1.1?

[kapuhy]

Hi Kapuhy,


did you had the time to look into the problem with the SOAN and the two ships, Small Freighter and Small Tramp Steamer from your version 1.1?

Hi GrenSo,

Unfortunately, I've had to make pause in modding and gaming in general for a year now, not even have SH5 installed at the moment to check. Realistically, I won't be able to do anything until June.

If anyone else is willing to take a look at it, they have my blessings to relase a fix, if not I hope to return to it come summer time.