Who will win the 2020 US Presidential Election? [Archive]

Skybird

07-13-20, 07:45 PM

I don't think anyone expects Joe to finish his term, so his VP needs to be great, but I suspect he will go with a far left woman. Studies showed last time independents and people generally tired of far left PC culture and Dems needed more than an activist platform, but they've moved even further than the left. Trump should have the advantage IMO, but he usually blows that with his tweets. I think the debates will play a role, but I still think Trump will win. The Dems will go down as throwing it away again with a far left culture cancelling radical activist platform.

Depends on whether or not demographic change catches up with it or not. Demographically the US society is changing, from white and conservative to non-white and leftier, there is little that can be done about that. Even then Republicans for this reason sooner or later will "leftify" themselves in order to remain attractive enough to be able to win elections, juts like the Democrats today are already much leftier than they were under let's say Carter. The angry old white people are loosing in numbers against other ethnic-demographic groups, and with them shrinks a voter keygroup of the Reps. Migration to the US today now is mainly from Asia, Latin America, not so much from Europe anymore. China, Mexico, India, Cuba, are the biggest migration groups now, I think.

vienna

07-14-20, 01:37 AM

Choices for winner:

Trump

Biden

Perot

... what?... no Putin...?...

<O>

Catfish

07-14-20, 02:09 AM

No one will hold the holy POTUS accountable for mismanagement and deaths of course.
When i look at Fox news America will get what it deserves.
Maybe Bolsonaro, he seems as fit for the job as Trump.

If they organise the election via online voting, and someone manages to hack it and set Donald Duck on the voting list, i know who would win.

Seriously, is there no one else than Trump or Biden, in the whole US.

August

07-14-20, 05:45 PM

Depends on whether or not demographic change catches up with it or not. Demographically the US society is changing, from white and conservative to non-white and leftier, there is little that can be done about that.

Personally I think it's racist to assume that the color of peoples skin determines their general political leanings but don't let that stop you.

Armistead

07-14-20, 10:46 PM

Depends on whether or not demographic change catches up with it or not. Demographically the US society is changing, from white and conservative to non-white and leftier, there is little that can be done about that. Even then Republicans for this reason sooner or later will "leftify" themselves in order to remain attractive enough to be able to win elections, juts like the Democrats today are already much leftier than they were under let's say Carter. The angry old white people are loosing in numbers against other ethnic-demographic groups, and with them shrinks a voter keygroup of the Reps. Migration to the US today now is mainly from Asia, Latin America, not so much from Europe anymore. China, Mexico, India, Cuba, are the biggest migration groups now, I think.

Will be interesting, but keep in mind when Obama left office Dems governed less than they had in a 100 years, so while the GOP isn't controlled by the far religious right as it once was, it still does pretty good politically. As usual, mid terms usually flop. I think the far left activist platform is dooming liberals with independents and will so again...even with Trump being as he is.

Mr Quatro

07-15-20, 01:28 PM

u crank

07-15-20, 02:07 PM

November 3rd 2020 is not just a National Election for the POTUS, but it is also for the entire House of Representatives (every two years) and the entire US Senate (voting is every four yrears) at the same time.

Sorry but not quite correct. In 2020 only 33 class 2 Senate seats are up for re-election as well as two special elections for John McCain and Johnny Isakson's seats. That's 35 out of 100.

August

07-15-20, 07:19 PM

Yeah a third of the Senate seats in the congress comes up for election every two years. Whats more the 6 year terms of a states two senators are staggered so that both of them aren't running for reelection at the same time.

Mr Quatro

07-15-20, 08:48 PM

Sorry but not quite correct. In 2020 only 33 class 2 Senate seats are up for re-election as well as two special elections for John McCain and Johnny Isakson's seats. That's 35 out of 100.

So sorry :oops: but the entire House is up for re-election, right?

u crank

07-16-20, 04:50 AM

Yes, every two years. :salute:

Skybird

07-17-20, 06:29 PM

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/17/politics/democrats-republicans-2020-election-trump-house-senate/index.html

"Trump is extremely unlikely to win if the polls continue to look the way they do now. And if these numbers represent a new normal, we need to account for the possibility that this election won't be particularly close, and that new states may come into play. In other words, if the national picture remains bleak for Trump, then the slippage he's seen from earlier this year wouldn't just be limited to a handful of swing states."

In short: All the signs are there that this could be a landslide up and down the ballot for Democrats. Yes, things could change between now and November 3. But, given Trump's obstinacy in refusing to admit his errors in dealing with the coronavirus and the current spikes in some of the most populous states in the country, such a turnaround seems very, very unlikely at the moment.

With every week passing and with every new appearance by Trump I am now getting more convinced that his days are counted.

August

07-17-20, 06:42 PM

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/17/politics/democrats-republicans-2020-election-trump-house-senate/index.html

With every week passing and with every new appearance by Trump I am now getting more convinced that his days are counted.

Quoting CNN like it has anything to do with reality. :roll:

Reece

07-20-20, 05:44 AM

Unfortunately because of the lack of government support for the Covid-19 virus it doesn't look good for The Don. :hmmm:

Mr Quatro

07-20-20, 09:37 AM

Unfortunately because of the lack of government support for the Covid-19 virus it doesn't look good for The Don. :hmmm:

Still 3 1/2 months left for Biden to make a mistake ... the debates should be a turning point for Trump or even a skeleton in Obama's closet should do it :yep:

Platapus

07-20-20, 12:28 PM

Still 3 1/2 months left for Biden to make a mistake ... the debates should be a turning point for Trump or even a skeleton in Obama's closet should do it :yep:

All Biden has to do is push some of Trump's emotional buttons and sit down. Trump will melt-down on live TV.

August

07-20-20, 03:34 PM

All Biden has to do is push some of Trump's emotional buttons and sit down. Trump will melt-down on live TV.

Actually that strategy would probably work pretty well on Biden. At least get him mad enough to start calling people Dog Faced Pony Soldiers.

Torvald Von Mansee

07-23-20, 01:03 PM

The Democrats will win it, but the Republicans will steal it.

August

07-23-20, 01:06 PM

The Democrats will win it, but the Republicans will steal it.

Whatever you say Comrade.

mapuc

07-23-20, 04:07 PM

Whatever you say Comrade.

I think in a way he could be right.

Biden wins the election with a very little margen...Mr. Trump accept the defeat....until beginning of December where he declare a state of emergency due to...something(maybe corona and the riots)and postpone the change of President in the White House

(Yes I have a very good imagination, I know)

Markus

August

07-23-20, 04:15 PM

I think in a way he could be right.

Biden wins the election with a very little margen...Mr. Trump accept the defeat....until beginning of December where he declare a state of emergency due to...something(maybe corona and the riots)and postpone the change of President in the White House

(Yes I have a very good imagination, I know)

Markus

Well I already explained to you how that can't and won't happen Markus. Once a new president is elected the previous president cannot stop the inauguration. There is no state of emergency or other shenanigan he could pull that would stop the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court from meeting with the incoming president, in secret if need be, to administer the oath and once that happens the reigns of governmental power will pass on to the new guy whether the old one wants it to happen or not.

Mr Quatro

07-24-20, 09:56 AM

Platapus

07-24-20, 10:33 AM

until beginning of December where he declare a state of emergency due to...something(maybe corona and the riots)and postpone the change of President in the White House

(Yes I have a very good imagination, I know)

Markus

Fortunately, the president does not have that authority.

We do not need the outgoing presidents permission or even presence in order to swear in a new president.

Each state has the sole authority to certify that state's electoral votes. The only federal counting occurs in the House of Representatives and it is witnessed by everyone in congress. Kinda tough to challenge that count.

mapuc

07-24-20, 01:45 PM

Fortunately, the president does not have that authority.

We do not need the outgoing presidents permission or even presence in order to swear in a new president.

Each state has the sole authority to certify that state's electoral votes. The only federal counting occurs in the House of Representatives and it is witnessed by everyone in congress. Kinda tough to challenge that count.

In this and in every other cases I trust you more than what our news paper in Denmark and Sweden tells us.

As mentioned in our US-politics thread.

The American sages/Political wise men, are asking them self can he do that ?
Can the President reject/refuse the result from the upcoming Presidential election Nov. 3 and stay in the White House.

But I believe you more.

Markus

Sean C

07-25-20, 12:56 AM

If, by some fantastic stretch of the imagination, Biden won and Trump tried to remain in office, the riots going on now would look like child's play compared to the chaos that would ensue. Hell, half the country had a literal* mental meltdown when he legitimately won the first election†. And the same people who - before the election - were telling Trump that he must accept the results, were now ... not wanting to accept the results.

"But Hillary won the popular vote!", they cried. Which is true. But that's not how it works. And ever since then, some people have been doing anything and everything to try and nullify the election, change how U.S. presidential elections work and/or get Trump thrown out of office for something ... anything. They just keep throwing allegations at him to see if anything sticks. And nothing has, no matter how much it upsets some people. The only thing it has accomplished seems to be digging up dirt on everyone else.

Of course, Trump [and others] tried to do the exact same thing to Obama by questioning his birthplace‡. The only difference is that no one was screaming at the sky, crying or throwing a tantrum the likes of which you'd expect from a two year old. Either way, it didn't work then, it's not working now and I'd wager it won't work in the future.

What I find ridiculous about all of this is that the President of the United States is not a dictator, king or any other type of absolute ruler. Their ability to ruin this country is severely limited by the checks and balances of the judicial and legislative branches, put in place by the founding fathers at the very inception of this country. And those checks and balances have been exercised plenty of times during Trump's presidency. He's even been impeached. Add to that the fact that the President's time in office is also limited to a maximum of eight years and you can see that, although the President does have a great deal of power and is supposed to be a representative leader of a great nation (stop laughing), they are ultimately a small part of what decides the fate of this nation.

IOW, if you don't like the current President - just wait a little while. The world won't end, we'll eventually have a new President and you will be just fine. What concerns me is all of the people who have been in office for decades, but who are now blaming Trump - who has been in office for less than four years - for all of the country's problems. Think about that.

* By "literal" I mean the [apparently] "old" meaning of "something that actually happened".

† You can argue about this until you're blue in the face, but ... if you are an American, Trump is in fact your President - whether you like it or not.

‡ It has always been my understanding that a child born to a U.S. citizen - no matter where - is automatically a U.S. citizen. (The Constitution is characteristically vague about this.) So, even if Obama was born in Kenya as some allege, AFAIK his mother was a U.S. citizen so it doesn't even matter.

Onkel Neal

07-25-20, 07:20 AM

August

07-25-20, 09:32 AM

My question to any and all Trump supporters: What if Biden wins the election but there's clear evidence that the Democrats cheated, manipulated the system to get that win? Does Trump still step down post-November?

You can produce evidence to back up any theory but if Biden won that's because a majority of state electors determined that he won. I would think that Biden takes over and impeachment proceedings then begin if the evidence is all that clear.

mapuc

07-25-20, 11:59 AM

First of all I picked Ross Perot I did this with the knowledge that whoever wins the American people loose.

To this latest question-Which I presume is directed to our American Trump supporters.

I will tell you how my Danish and Swedish anti-Trump friends will see it.

They will approve it and they will say things like
Every effort to get this (name) out of the White House is legitimate

My Danish and Swedish pro-Trump friends

Will of course go berserk and write long comments about the anti-American democracy. Some of them will add Bilderberg, Freemason a.s.o into the equation.

I myself will be sitting with a funny taste in my mouth wondering if there is some honest untouchable people among the American authorities who will dig into this mess and investigate it.

Markus

Onkel Neal

07-25-20, 10:30 PM

You can produce evidence to back up any theory but if Biden won that's because a majority of state electors determined that he won. I would think that Biden takes over and impeachment proceedings then begin if the evidence is all that clear.

Ok, I'm just waiting to see how this plays out. If Biden wins a super close race and there are questions and discrepancies, I think if Trump and his cheerleaders on talk radio balk, it could be interesting. I would not be a bit surprised if a majority of Trump supporters follow right along.

August

07-25-20, 10:48 PM

Ok, I'm just waiting to see how this plays out. If Biden wins a super close race and there are questions and discrepancies, I think if Trump and his cheerleaders on talk radio balk, it could be interesting. I would not be a bit surprised if a majority of Trump supporters follow right along.

Follow along? What you mean by balk? Once the Electoral College produces a result that's it. You expect Trump supporters to barricade the capitol building or something?

Or are you concerned that Trump supporters will act like the Democrats have acted since 2016 and finish tearing the nation apart?

Onkel Neal

07-25-20, 11:00 PM

Follow along? What you mean by balk? Once the Electoral College produces a result that's it. You expect Trump supporters to barricade the capitol building or something?

Or are you concerned that Trump supporters will act like the Democrats have acted since 2016 and finish tearing the nation apart?

The Electoral College tally reflects the race in each state. If the results are close, there will be a lot of accusations of cheating and fraud.

For example, in 2016 Trump carried Michigan by only 0.3 percent. If Biden narrowly wins Michigan in Nov and that's the state that clinches the 270 he needs, if Trump starts the narrative that the results are not valid, his crowd will follow along. Will they barricade the capital building? I would be be expecting it, they have practice.

https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2020/05/14/gettyimages-1224826974_slide-e599d0bc9eb803774934d24cff47cb0d6c8da855-s800-c85.jpg

Yeah, I am concerned Trump supporters will act like Democrats and it would not shock me if they did. This pandemic has shown how irresponsible they can be.

August

07-25-20, 11:12 PM

The Electoral College tally reflects the race in each state. If the results are close, there will be a lot of accusations of cheating and fraud.

For example, in 2016 Trump carried Michigan by only 0.3 percent. If Biden narrowly wins Michigan in Nov and that's the state that clinches the 270 he needs, if Trump starts the narrative that the results are not valid, his crowd will follow along. Will they barricade the capital building? I would be be expecting it, they have practice.

https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2020/05/14/gettyimages-1224826974_slide-e599d0bc9eb803774934d24cff47cb0d6c8da855-s800-c85.jpg

Yeah, I am concerned Trump supporters will act like Democrats and it would not shock me if they did. This pandemic has shown how irresponsible they can be.

Ok, be worried then. :up:

Onkel Neal

07-30-20, 08:24 AM

Here we go...

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1288818160389558273

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53597975

Sean C

07-30-20, 10:35 AM

Oh, hell ....

Onkel Neal

07-30-20, 12:27 PM

Trump supporters explaining it away in 3...2...1...

Platapus

07-30-20, 05:21 PM

That would be a big dish of Nope with some extra Nope sauce on the side.

Even in the civil war, we had presidential elections.

Texas Red

07-30-20, 06:07 PM

I think that what he is getting at is that someone could intercept the mail and change the votes so it could support either parties. If not Trump himself orders someone to do it to support him.

That was my concern also, someone could intercept the voting mail and change it, but I am not sure of the precautions the USPS has taken against that, even if the USPS will manage the voters mail.

Either way, Trump is a fascist dictator who fires anyone who speaks against him, he ruins everything with his stupid tweeting.

As a general rule, if you are in some great position of power in the government, such as the President or Vice President, social media should be banned, period.

Onkel Neal

08-01-20, 07:50 PM

If Biden Gets Mail-In Vote Advantage, Majority of Trump Voters Say They Won't Accept His Win: Poll

https://www.newsweek.com/if-biden-gets-mail-vote-advantage-majority-trump-voters-say-they-wont-accept-his-win-poll-1522061

Bear in mind the source, but not surprising.

A majority of President Donald Trump's supporters say they won't accept the presidential election results if presumptive Democratic nominee Joe Biden wins by mail-in ballots, according to a new poll.

According to the poll, among those who intend to vote for Trump, 55 percent say they will not accept the results of the election if Biden wins through mail-in votes, while 21 percent said they would. The remaining 24 percent said they were not sure.

In comparison, among those who intend to vote for Biden, 26 percent say they won't accept a Trump mail-in voting victory. Forty-seven percent of Biden voters say they would accept the results and 27 percent said they weren't sure.

The poll, which was conducted by Yahoo News/YouGov, surveyed 1,506 U.S. adults from July 28 to July 30 and has margin of error of plus or minus 3.3 percentage points.

August

08-01-20, 08:53 PM

Yeah if Trump wins the mail in ballot expect those numbers to change Neal. No matter how Trump wins in November 2016 shows us that the Democrats are not going to accept the results.

August

08-01-20, 09:08 PM

As a general rule, if you are in some great position of power in the government, such as the President or Vice President, social media should be banned, period.

So then how are they supposed to communicate with the American people? Only through private intermediaries like our biased professional news media? Sorry the New York Times and CNN should not get to decide when the President can be heard.

Ever notice how typical Democrat ideas always involve restricting liberty in some way?

Onkel Neal

08-02-20, 10:27 AM

Yeah if Trump wins the mail in ballot expect those numbers to change Neal. No matter how Trump wins in November 2016 shows us that the Democrats are not going to accept the results.

Yeah, I totally expect you are right. They were pushing impeachment almost as soon as he took office.

If the election is close, it's going to be a mess. If Trump loses by one state, for example, and his team finds real evidence of fraud, which there probably will be some on both sides, that's my worry about him refusing to leave office and about his supporters supporting that. I mean, it's a valid objection, but we've never had anyone push that far. Nixon gave in, in 60, but he was not an incumbent. Same with Gore. I wish they would just flip a coin on national TV, I can live with that better than the mass hysteria from all sides in Nov.

Mr Quatro

08-02-20, 10:50 AM

Close down all news media two weeks before the election :yep:
News can only come back on after the polls close on the west coast :up:

mapuc

08-02-20, 11:41 AM

August

08-02-20, 01:42 PM

Yeah, I totally expect you are right. They were pushing impeachment almost as soon as he took office.

If the election is close, it's going to be a mess. If Trump loses by one state, for example, and his team finds real evidence of fraud, which there probably will be some on both sides, that's my worry about him refusing to leave office and about his supporters supporting that. I mean, it's a valid objection, but we've never had anyone push that far. Nixon gave in, in 60, but he was not an incumbent. Same with Gore. I wish they would just flip a coin on national TV, I can live with that better than the mass hysteria from all sides in Nov.

Gore only gave in because he lost his case. He fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court. I would expect that a close result in November might follow a similar path. There will be court ordered recounts in the state(s) in question, the results will get appealed and the SC will make a final ruling on the dispute long before inaugural day.

Jimbuna

08-02-20, 02:11 PM

That sounds pretty messy and here's me thinking British politics is at an all time high ridiculous level.

Onkel Neal

08-03-20, 08:56 AM

A proposal

If August is correct in what he told me how this voting by mail is done in USA, wouldn't it then be a good time to chance it.

Your authorities could have a look at how it is done here in Denmark, Sweden and Norway. I presume it's the same in Finland.

Here it's 99-100 % impossible to cheat with these mail in ballot.

Markus

If it were up to me, the secret ballot voting thing would be tossed like the trash it is. Every qualified, legal citizen with a Social Security number could vote in person, by mail, online, whatever. The votes would be accessible online by anyone, any time. I make my choices, I own up to them. If I want to see my vote and make sure it is accurately recorded, I can just look it up. If I want to know how Tina Fey or Peyton Manning or Joe Blow voted, that's right there.

If someone says "hey, some voter fraud, blah blah," We can say, "Oh yeah? Where?" You, me, the govt, Tea Party, local steelworkers union, etc, anyone who wants to confirm can check it.

Election results would be error free, 100% verifiable.

Mr Quatro

08-03-20, 10:00 AM

If someone says "hey, some voter fraud, blah blah," We can say, "Oh yeah? Where?" You, me, the govt, Tea Party, local steelworkers union, etc, anyone who wants to confirm can check it.

Election results would be error free, 100% verifiable.

What if dead people's votes get counted?
Like in the first stimulus checks got sent to a lot of dead people? :o

mapuc

08-03-20, 12:29 PM

If it were up to me, the secret ballot voting thing would be tossed like the trash it is. Every qualified, legal citizen with a Social Security number could vote in person, by mail, online, whatever. The votes would be accessible online by anyone, any time. I make my choices, I own up to them. If I want to see my vote and make sure it is accurately recorded, I can just look it up. If I want to know how Tina Fey or Peyton Manning or Joe Blow voted, that's right there.

If someone says "hey, some voter fraud, blah blah," We can say, "Oh yeah? Where?" You, me, the govt, Tea Party, local steelworkers union, etc, anyone who wants to confirm can check it.

Election results would be error free, 100% verifiable.

Your reply made me remember a discussion they have had in Sweden some years ago - digitize the election.

Here the idea was the same, a voter can track their vote until it have been counted or something like that.

Now to a different thing. A thing I keep on forgetting to ask.

This question is to you my American friends who dislike Trump.

Do you accept any approaches, even the illegals, as long it means Trump will be history in the White house ?

If there should be some of you who answer "Yes" I would be sad.
A President shall be removed by legal democratically methods.

Markus

Onkel Neal

08-03-20, 04:14 PM

What if dead people's votes get counted?
Like in the first stimulus checks got sent to a lot of dead people? :o

Dead people have SS# that show them as dead, right? Someone had to send a dead person's submission, it gets erased and an IT teams send the info to LE.

Same with stimulus checks, they have to be cashed or deposited, just see who did that and arrest them. There's always litter in the ditches that needs picking up.

Mr Quatro

08-03-20, 04:33 PM

I agree your plan is good Neal, but what good will that do for November 3rd 2020 (three months from now)?

We (meaning the US Congress and the US Senate) have three more years to come up with an acceptable plan that will work.

Don't think a letter to your Congressman would be a waste of time, especially if you could get 100k men and women to agree. :yep:

August

08-03-20, 04:53 PM

If it were up to me, the secret ballot voting thing would be tossed like the trash it is. Every qualified, legal citizen with a Social Security number could vote in person, by mail, online, whatever. The votes would be accessible online by anyone, any time. I make my choices, I own up to them. If I want to see my vote and make sure it is accurately recorded, I can just look it up. If I want to know how Tina Fey or Peyton Manning or Joe Blow voted, that's right there.

If someone says "hey, some voter fraud, blah blah," We can say, "Oh yeah? Where?" You, me, the govt, Tea Party, local steelworkers union, etc, anyone who wants to confirm can check it.

Election results would be error free, 100% verifiable.

Neal that's a really bad idea!

The whole purpose for secret balloting is to eliminate voter intimidation. IE: "Vote for this candidate or we will break your legs" or "Vote for that candidate or maybe your kids will have an accident." or "You say that Neal voted for Trump? Fire him immediately." How are you going to prevent this when Doxxing has become a national pastime?

QuincyBad

08-03-20, 08:33 PM

Hello!

I think trump will win because the last election everyone thought he would lose and we were saying that and also roasting him and making memes outta him, the same thing is here.. most likely the same thing is going to happen! Sorry but Its the sad truth.

Like I always say, YES MATEEE!!:Kaleun_Cheers:

Armistead

08-03-20, 09:01 PM

A proposal

If August is correct in what he told me how this voting by mail is done in USA, wouldn't it then be a good time to chance it.

Your authorities could have a look at how it is done here in Denmark, Sweden and Norway. I presume it's the same in Finland.

Here it's 99-100 % impossible to cheat with these mail in ballot.

Markus

Those are small mostly small homogeneous nations. The US state system is rather complex with a lot of politically motivated and crooked people. Not too much of an issue overall, we assume it balances out, but in a close vote, it turns into a crap show of accusations from every angle. Many have done studies, it seems about 3% of mail gets lost, many elections are lost by those margins, but maybe it's balanced too.

August

08-03-20, 09:22 PM

New York primary has been so screwed up by mail in voting that it's now weeks later and they still don't know who won.

The Chaos in New York Is a Warning

Edward-Isaac Dovere July 24, 2020

The first large-scale test of mail-in voting in the pandemic has left one in five New Yorkers with their votes tossed out.

More than a month after New York’s June 23 primary elections, state election officials are still counting votes. In some legislative districts, they haven’t even started counting absentee votes. In the best-case scenario, election officials hope to declare winners by the first Tuesday in August—six weeks after Election Day. It might take a lot longer than that. Election officials in New York City have already invalidated upwards of 100,000 absentee ballots—about one of every five that were mailed in from the five boroughs. And furious candidates are already filing lawsuits charging discrimination and disenfranchisement.
The chaos in New York is a warning about November’s elections: Voting is being transformed by the pandemic. But no state has built new election infrastructure. No state has the time or the money to make sure vote-counting will go smoothly in November. And just about every state is about to be hit with a massive surge of absentee ballots.
“This is what happens,” a New York election official told me over the phone last week, “when you jury-rig a system that hasn’t been designed or implemented or tested before.”
In New York, the election infrastructure was overwhelmed by a massive increase in voters requesting absentee ballots rather than risking voting in person. Ballot-printing firms couldn’t keep up with demand, and the already rickety U.S. Postal Service didn’t move the ballots to and from voters quickly enough. Election officials, meanwhile, have seemed more interested in pointing fingers than in solving the problems.
“It’s a nightmare in an age of political paranoia,” says Ritchie Torres, a city councilman who is currently in the lead for an open congressional seat in the Bronx—the bluest district in the country—but who is still waiting on the final result.
Every election in the past few months has provided more evidence of a system that isn’t able to keep up with the coronavirus. Wisconsinites waited to vote for hours in the rain wearing makeshift masks. A police officer in Washington, D.C., reportedly tried to disperse a crowd waiting to vote, because the people in line were breaking a curfew established in response to the George Floyd protests. More people than ever are voting by mail, and election officials are invalidating more votes than ever because of technical errors. In Georgia, 943,000 primary voters turned in absentee ballots, a 2,500 percent increase (https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/absentee-voting-georgia-embraced-equally-voters-both-parties/QwabnU3akBNQOdd1qNu4xN/) from the 2016 primary.
New York’s June elections were primaries for local races—assembly and state Senate and Congress—with no partisan change in power at stake and a much smaller pool of voters than a general election. New York is a solidly Democratic state, with a Democratic governor, and all the officials who matter said they were committed to expanding voting by mail and other options. And it was a disaster.
Imagine what happens when the results matter more. Imagine it’s December 5, a month after the national elections in the fall. Is President Donald Trump ahead, or Joe Biden? Who’s ahead in close House races? Senate races? Local races for mayor or state legislature? Are votes still coming in? Are they being contested? Who’s making the decisions? Which courts are getting involved? Recounts, if they’re needed, would be in … January? February? When is the presidential election going to be called? When will every seat be filled for the next session of Congress?
Trump isn’t likely (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/when-does-trump-leave-white-house/613060/) to patiently and calmly wait as more votes are counted—especially if he’s behind. In an interview (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-pushes-back-against-critics-on-coronavirus-addresses-whether-he-will-accept-election-results-in-exclusive-interview) on Fox News that aired on Sunday, he already refused to commit to accepting the results.
“In the world where the election tightens, if there are swing states for the Senate, or certainly the Electoral College, that have an absentee process that’s as poor as what happened here in New York City, it could be catastrophically bad for the future of American democracy,” says Brad Lander, a city councilman from Brooklyn who’s been trying to call attention to the disproportionately high rate of absentee ballots officials have invalidated in his borough.
Elections in New York have always taken place against a backdrop of corruption and incompetence, patronage and piddling, whereby democracy runs up against bureaucracy and usually gets a concussion. The New York City Board of Elections has a central office, but also five borough offices that run semi-independently, overseen by 10 commissioners appointed by the Republican and Democratic Party chairs of each borough. Forget about administering elections—officials can’t even place a letter of reprimand in an employee’s file without at least six votes from the board.

Read the rest here:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/07/new-york-election-failure-mail-in-voting/614446/

Onkel Neal

08-04-20, 09:06 AM

Neal that's a really bad idea!

The whole purpose for secret balloting is to eliminate voter intimidation. IE: "Vote for this candidate or we will break your legs" or "Vote for that candidate or maybe your kids will have an accident." or "You say that Neal voted for Trump? Fire him immediately." How are you going to prevent this when Doxxing has become a national pastime?

I'm pretty sure you know my answer to that. "Come at me, bro". I never had any problem with my identity being out there, I doxxed myself. :D

August

08-06-20, 08:05 PM

I'm pretty sure you know my answer to that. "Come at me, bro". I never had any problem with my identity being out there, I doxxed myself. :D

You may not have a problem with it but you're a Texan used to fighting for survival against everything from outlaws to Texas itself. I swear just about everything down there bites, stings or poisons, mostly all three. Gentler folks might have more difficulty dealing with hordes of masked people showing up in the middle of the night trying to burn them out of their homes because they voted for the wrong candidate.

mapuc

08-07-20, 12:15 PM

A thought which I have had since start of this thread.

Will there be a winner among those who have picked the right candidate and will this member have the bragging right the year to come ?

Markus

Mr Quatro

08-07-20, 01:54 PM

A thought which I have had since start of this thread.

Will there be a winner among those who have picked the right candidate and will this member have the bragging right the year to come ?

Markus

boils down to me or August :up:

Torvald Von Mansee

08-15-20, 09:52 AM

So...are we going to talk about Trump sabotaging the post office to "win" the election?

I can see what will happen on election day: lots of late mail-in ballots. If Trump is ahead, the GOP will go to the Supreme Court to prevent counting the outstanding ballots. If behind, the opposite. And the Secretaries of State of GOP-controlled states will be doing unethical things, too.

mapuc

08-15-20, 12:48 PM

^ One thing is certain though

This upcoming American Presidential Election will not be bored.
Not in a million year

Markus

Mr Quatro

08-15-20, 03:13 PM

^ One thing is certain though

This upcoming American Presidential Election will not be bored.
Not in a million year

Markus

Might not even be over in time for Thanksgiving :haha:

Reece

08-24-20, 08:08 PM

Might not even be over in time for Thanksgiving :haha:

Might not be anything to be thankful for!! :yep:

vienna

08-27-20, 10:05 AM

What if dead people's votes get counted?
Like in the first stimulus checks got sent to a lot of dead people? :o

Well the stimulus check were based on SSA rolls not voter rolls, so its apples and oranges, again; also, the local voting jurisdictions are usually the same entities that keep records such as deaths, meaning either they have been lax in reporting to the SSA, or the SSA has been lax in updating their files; also consider the extremely higher probability the local records, due to the proximal nature of the record keeping may be rather more current than the Feds...

Dead people have SS# that show them as dead, right? Someone had to send a dead person's submission, it gets erased and an IT teams send the info to LE.

Same with stimulus checks, they have to be cashed or deposited, just see who did that and arrest them. There's always litter in the ditches that needs picking up.

As far a I am aware, every state requires every voter to either sign their ballot or the polling place sign-in book or both; signature don't match, vote don't count, simple as that. In order to cast a valid vote on behalf of a dead person, the fraud would have to know the exact signature used by the original voter on their registration document(s); in 2016, or example, in order to achieve Trump's much coveted goal of winning the popular vote, his minions would have had to find nearly 3 million dead voters (an average of some 60,000 votes in each of the 50 states) and determine their original individual signatures in order to cast valid ballots; they would need nearly double that amount, or about 120,000 votes per state to have won trump a clear majority of the popular vote; the possibilities pulling off such a stunt are staggeringly low...

There have been only two reported major voting frauds committed that voided election result and required new elections to be held and they directly affected US House races; in both cases the attempted fraud was done by GOP operatives and both failed; one involved a process known as vote harvesting and the other involved sequestering of ballots; it should also be noted the officials overseeing the elections in those districts were in the GOP...

The reason dead and otherwise invalid voters tend to linger on voter rolls has more to do with logistics and bad record keeping than any attempt at organized vote fraud; the individual counties in the individual states do not operate from the same level playing fields as each other due to financial, technological, and methodological disparities; some places are blessed with the means, technologies, and logistics capabilities to run smoothly, and some are woefully lacking; in a great many cases, even though the SSA might send an updated 'list of the dead', getting that information into the county systems can either be really simple, just matching one database to another, in the case of tech savvy and equipped jurisdictions, or painfully slow, manual and awkward in the less advanced locales; having the necessary information is useless if there is no efficient means of implementing ts use; backlogs, lack of manpower and just general bureaucratic bungling add to the difficulties in pruning voter rolls...

A local Los Angeles nightly news program had one its "hard hitting, tough" investigative reporters do an expose on the state of the LA County Registrar and the voting rolls; he and his staff actually did a match of the SSA rolls, along with a list of previous voters known to have moved out of the county; after thoroughly checking the lists, it was discovered a bit over 400 names on the list were either deceased or ineligible to vote; in 2018, when the news reporter's audit was done, there were over 5,250,000 voters on the election roils, meaning the error rate was so minute as to be of no impact on the election even if every "dead" vote was cast multiple times (in fact there voted have to have been well over 52, 500 "dead votes to be cast just to achieve a 1% affect on the election results) and it was actually found that of the over 400 "dead" names on the voters rolls, only two could be traced back to any actual votes being cast in those names...

Since Trump made his big stink about alleged "massive voter fraud" in 2016, an awful lot of jurisdictions have taken additional measures to secure their voting systems, so it is even more difficult now to commit vote fraud than it was in 2016; after the GOP lost every House seat in CA's heavily GOP Orange County to the DEMs in the 2018 Midterms, the first time that had happened in over 80 years, both the RNC and the CRP started making noses about there possibly being "massive voting fraud" in Orange county and possibly calling for an investigation; that all fell apart when it was found the Orange County Registrar of Voters was so bothered by Trump's 2016 assertions, he immediately initiated a complete review on the County's election system and records and purged the voter rolls of every invalid name they could find, a job so thorough it impressed other officials in other counties and states who contacted him for advice on how to clean up their systems; the chances the 2018 Elections results were flawed was basically nil; Orange County had become a 'model' for others to follow...

...oh, and did I mention the Orange County Registrar is, himself, a registered Republican? Made it impossibly hard for the RNC and/or the CRP to claim DEM shenanigans...

BTW, I just recently received an application in the mail for a mail-in ballot for the November 2018 Election; they are being sent out to all registered voters of any and all parties and Independents; I noted the mail-back response portion had no individual identifiers(s) at all, no name or reg. number, just a barcode, so, even if somehow intercepted to ftry and find a voter's information, there just is none; I rather suspect the mail-in ballots will be pretty much thee same...

<O>

Mr Quatro

08-27-20, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro View Post
What if dead people's votes get counted?

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.F3S88zeYPGgO0NNK1LBlFAHaFw?w=250&h=194&c=7&o=5&dpr=1.5&pid=1.7

vienna

08-27-20, 07:29 PM

Cutesy cartoons still don't refute the fact the Trump/GOP claims of the inevitability of voter fraud have yet to provide any, repeat, any, proof of massive, or even minorly significant voter fraud associated with mail-in ballots (which, should also be noted, is the method used by Trump to cast his own votes in elections); in actual fact, when Trump/RNC sought a restraining order against the State of Pennsylvania and its counties to block drop-off boxes for mail-in ballots in that state, the court was asked by members of the state's defense to order the Trump Campaign to provide evidence to back up their fraud claims:

ORDERGRANTING MOTIONS TO COMPEL [ECF 366, ECF 368] --

https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/2020-08/Order%20Granting%20Motions%20to%20Compel.pdf

2) As to the motion to compel filed by the Sierra Club Intervenors [ECF 368], the Court finds that instances of voter fraud are relevant to the claims and defenses in this case, particularly since Plaintiffs are reserving their right to introduce such evidence or retain an expert regarding the same. Plaintiffs shall produce such evidence in their possession,and if they have none, state as much. More specifically, Plaintiffs must respond fully to the Sierra Club Intervenors’ Document Request Nos. 1 and 15, “as narrowed to include documents, data,analysis and communications relating to allegations the Amended Complaint concerning potential or actual fraud or voter misconduct,”including as relates to:a)“non-uniform procedures concerning drop boxes in Pennsylvania”;b)“fraudulent voting resulting from the use of drop boxes, absentee ballots, or vote-by-mail in Pennsylvania”;c) “fraud resulting from the use of third-party groups to collect absentee or mail ballots in Pennsylvania”; d) “the existence and/or prevalence of fraud, ballot harvesting, ballot manipulation or destruction, or duplicitous voting in Pennsylvania”; and e) “the prevalence and/or counting of absentee or mail ballots in Pennsylvania that lack a secrecy envelope, whose envelope contains any text, mark, or symbol which reveals the elector's identify, political affiliation, or candidate preference,or whose envelope does not include on the outside envelope a completed declaration signed by the elector.”
3) Plaintiffs shall provide supplemental responses and documents consistent with the foregoing no later than August 14, 2020
Basically, the Trump campaign was being told to "put up or shut up", giving the GOP a sterling chance to make all that DEM skullduggery public and vindicate Trump's bombasts, indeed a golden opportunity to set the record straight, showing up all thse DEM scoffers and the weasley media...

...but, then, this happened:

Trump Comes Up Empty When Pressed for Evidence of Election Fraud in Court --

The Trump campaign’s 524-page response to a discovery demand turned up precisely zero instances of mail-in voter fraud.

https://theintercept.com/2020/08/20/trump-election-fraud-pennsylvania-court/

The Trump Campaign fired blanks once again and has basically admitted they have bupkis proof of any "massive fraud" or the possibility of such fraud involving mail-in ballots; the Trump lawyers actually and laughably tried to convince the court they didn't need to provide proof because the Trump team could win their case without any proof; its sort of like some guy suing you and telling the judge he doesn't need to prove his suit because he's going to win anyway, so just, you know, rule in my favor anyway... :haha:

It looks like the Trump Campaign/GOP will come out on the short end of the stick in this suit; I don't know why they even needed to file a suit: aren't they really convinced they're going to win the November Election even if there is no fraud...?...

From the article citing a previous attempt to justify Trump's claims:

This is far from the first time that Republicans have failed to substantiate their frequent claims that voter fraud is a persistent problem in American elections. In 2018, one of U.S.’s most prominent crusaders against voter fraud, then-Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, was asked by a district court to produce evidence that noncitizens were voting in his home state of Kansas. Kobach brought forth witnesses, but their testimony fell apart on cross examination. Judge Julie Robinson wrote in her opinion that “evidence that the voter rolls include ineligible citizens is weak. At most, 39 [non]citizens have found their way onto the Kansas voter rolls in the last 19 years.” The rare known cases of voter fraud were not the tip of the iceberg, she concluded, “there is no iceberg; only an icicle, largely created by confusion and administrative error.”

So, even when given a wide open opportunity to publicly prove their claims, the Trump Campaign/GOP have again come up dead empty on evidence; note, also, apparently no one else has been able to provide probative evidence of any sort of "massive fraud" related to mail-in ballots, much less even any materially significant minor proofs; all they have is the word of Trump, and we all know what an honest, truthful, moral paragon he is...

...now, Trump wouldn't lie... would he...?...

<O>

Onkel Neal

08-31-20, 07:39 AM

https://nypost.com/2020/08/30/michael-moore-says-trump-could-repeat-his-2016-win/

Lefty filmmaker Michael Moore said President Trump is enjoying “off the charts” enthusiasm and could pull off a repeat of the 2016 election — and the commander in chief agrees.

“Michael knows!” Trump wrote on Twitter Sunday morning, and linking to a story about Moore’s comments.

“Are you ready for a Trump victory? Are you mentally prepared to be outsmarted by Trump again? Do you find comfort in your certainty that there is no way Trump can win? Are you content with the trust you’ve placed in the DNC to pull this off?” he said, referring to the Democratic National Committee.

“I’m warning you almost 10 weeks in advance. The enthusiasm level for the 60 million in Trump’s base is OFF THE CHARTS! For Joe, not so much,” he said.

It's beginning to look like 2016 all over again. :shucks:

Catfish

08-31-20, 08:16 AM

"Are you mentally prepared to be outsmarted by Trump again?"
Seems so :haha:

Sean C

09-01-20, 01:13 AM

I used to think I had a pretty good handle on what was going to happen in the near future.

... Used to.

em2nought

09-08-20, 02:14 AM

Trump should issue an executive order that if you're alive on Jan 1st of a general election year you can cast your vote even if Cuomo kills you before the election. :D

Obltn Strand

09-08-20, 06:04 AM

It's beginning to look like 2016 all over again. :shucks:
I bet Trump a fixed 14.2 odds when he was two digits behind Clinton in the polls. 10€ bet genarated a decent profit of 132€. This time around it's different. Both Donald and Joe has odds of less than 2. No profit no safety in there. Best option seems to be 1€ for Donald (safety) and 1€ for Kamala Harris. Latter gives respectable odds of 101,1.

Onkel Neal

09-11-20, 06:18 PM

Is Donald Trump starting to make an electoral comeback?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/11/politics/donald-trump-joe-biden-electoral-college/index.html

Platapus

09-12-20, 09:09 AM

We need to ignore the polls and all vote as if this were the closest election in our nation's history.. where every voter is important.

Mr Quatro

09-12-20, 11:49 AM

We need to ignore the polls and all vote as if this were the closest election in our nation's history.. where every voter is important.

Yes, this should be a scroll on all of the news media stations.

Close in the meaning of which way our country will go

Left or right :yep:

mapuc

09-12-20, 02:27 PM

August

09-12-20, 02:34 PM

Platapus

09-12-20, 03:58 PM

An eternal wonder.

Why is people so locked in they perspective Left or Right ?
(This is typical left wing...)
(This is typical Right wing...)

Shouldn't it be what is correct/right or incorrect/wrong ?

Markus

Because some people find emotional comfort in generalization. It helps them simplify concepts that are more complex.

I usually disregard any statements that uses the term "The Left" or "The Right" as if it was a homogeneous group that always thinks and acts the same.

People are complex and rarely fit nicely into generalizations.

Political generalizations, like these and others, tend to foster an "us against them" attitude and inhibits communication and cooperation.

We all have things we agree on and things we disagree on. With open and honest communication, I think some people would be surprised at how much agreement there is.

Onkel Neal

09-18-20, 06:29 PM

Michael Moore sounds alarm on Biden's campaign in Michigan: 'It’s actually worse than Hillary's'

The filmmaker famously warned Democrats that Trump would win the 2016 election

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/michael-moore-sounds-alarm-biden-michigan-campaign

AVGWarhawk

09-21-20, 03:19 PM

You know what person I think will win. :D Trump needs to be careful with the now open SCOTUS position. He could win favor in the Supreme Court but lose seats in the Senate depending on the nominee.

Sean C

09-21-20, 11:21 PM

As of September 21, 2020, there are 1,202 candidates who filed to run for President of the United States, including:

323 Democratic candidates
164 Republican candidates
65 Libertarian candidates
23 Green candidates

Click here for a complete list of presidential candidates registered with the FEC. (https://ballotpedia.org/List_of_registered_2020_presidential_candidates)

... Just sayin'.

sh3rules

09-22-20, 08:02 PM

AVGWarhawk

09-23-20, 02:53 PM

Republicans might fill the seat in the SC, but if Biden wins the WH and the senate things could get beyond ugly. Watch a few hardcore liberal judges being added to the SC (I'm guessing 3) and a push to include DC and Puerto Rico.

Need to have 3 quit or die for the hard core liberal judges are put in place. Gonna be a while for that.

August

09-23-20, 03:26 PM

Need to have 3 quit or die for the hard core liberal judges are put in place. Gonna be a while for that.

Not if the Democrats increase the number of SC judges from 9 to 12. Of course if they did do that we can expect the Republicans to increase the number again to 15 or 18 when they get back into power again, and on and on, 50, 100, 1000, 1,000,000 and up with each swing of the pendulum. It's quite possible we will all get a chance to be Supreme Court justices eventually.

Gerald

09-26-20, 05:38 PM

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden assured U.S. mayors on Saturday he would be an active partner in the White House in helping them respond to racial justice protests and the economic fallout from the coronavirus pandemic.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-biden/biden-promises-u-s-mayors-he-will-be-a-partner-in-the-white-house-idUSKBN26H0YV

High posts are handed out ... without "coverage"?

mapuc

09-26-20, 06:04 PM

The clock is ticking..the judgement day is approaching fast.

The traditional voters will vote by tradition whoever may be the President or candidate.

The plantonische voters will vote by the look of the contesters

The last minute voters will use head or tail, as they can't decide which one they shall put their vote on.

Markus

Mr Quatro

09-26-20, 07:51 PM

Onkel Neal

09-27-20, 09:20 AM

Not if the Democrats increase the number of SC judges from 9 to 12. Of course if they did do that we can expect the Republicans to increase the number again to 15 or 18 when they get back into power again, and on and on, 50, 100, 1000, 1,000,000 and up with each swing of the pendulum. It's quite possible we will all get a chance to be Supreme Court justices eventually.

:D Haha, I'll get my robe pressed.

mapuc

09-27-20, 11:34 AM

Sorry Markus you left off the fact that about 70% don't even care enough to vote :oops:

I thought it was obvious that it was those who's gonna vote in the upcoming election I had in mind.

Markus

Jimbuna

09-27-20, 12:11 PM

I think the only certainty regarding the eventual outcome is the fact that the winner will be a male :doh:

Aktungbby

09-27-20, 12:15 PM

I think the only certainty regarding the eventual outcome is the fact that the winner will be a male :doh:not if Biden
conveniently croaks!:haha::oops::dead:

Jimbuna

09-27-20, 01:22 PM

not if Biden
conveniently croaks!:haha::oops::dead:

If that happened before the election I doubt his running mate is popular enough to win.

Aktungbby

09-27-20, 05:22 PM

/\I suspect every woman in 'Merika, regardless of affiliation, and who vote in higher numbers than males, would behold the hando'god and trudge to polls to send the incumbent porcinity to the electoral knackers.... and his Slovenian pornstar first lady!

Skybird

09-28-20, 02:47 AM

750
0
10/15

The numbers of the day.

"He's one of us!"

Gerald

09-28-20, 05:12 AM

https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/memorable-moments-from-60-years-of-us-pr-idUSRTX7YDWL

A pure reflection.

Jimbuna

09-28-20, 06:00 AM

Donald Trump 'paid $750 in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017' - NY Times
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54319948

Does anyone actually care either way?

Gerald

09-28-20, 06:56 AM

750
0
10/15

The numbers of the day.

"He's one of us!" If this is reliable information and not a result of the left - wing forces, then the lawyers have done their job.

Skybird

09-28-20, 09:04 AM

If this is reliable information and not a result of the left - wing forces, then the lawyers have done their job.
I could imagine that to be a quote by Nixon. :88)

In a sane world, this should be a neckbreaker for any politician. Unfortunately, it is not a sane world anymore. Trump has lied all his lifre long, from childhood on, and learned that this is what lets him get away with everything: lying, lying, and lying more. And America is such that it rewards this as "success".

It tells just a little bit about Trump, since from a psychotherapeutical perspective he is not a complex person at all and so there is not much to be discovered in him, he ticks quite simple and forseeable. But it tells a whole damn lot about the society that stages the Trump show.

Gerald

09-28-20, 09:12 AM

I could imagine that to be a quote by Nixon. :88)

In a sane world, this should be a neckbreaker for any politician. Unfortunately, it is not a sane world anymore. Trump has lied all his lifre long, from childhood on, and learned that this is what lets him get away with everything: lying, lying, and lying more. And America is such that it rewards this as "success".

It tells just a little bit about Trump, since from a psychotherapeutical perspective he is not a complex person at all and so there is not much to be discovered in him, he ticks quite simple and forseeable. But it tells a whole damn lot about the society that stages the Trump show.
No, actually spontaneously from my head! :03:

At the same time, we know well how politicians, regardless of political color, engage in trickery in various stages.

mapuc

09-28-20, 09:19 AM

My first thought.

Trump is very much unwanted, so every steps to get him off the throne is good.
So this information could perhaps been put forward to the public before, but there's indication Trump could win the election...so best time to reveal this...is now.

Secondly...I would love to see the tax papers for Biden & Co.

Third.

Has Trump done something illegal ?

Markus

Skybird

09-28-20, 10:29 AM

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/trump-tax-records-show-duplicity-s-devastating-his-campaign-n1241228

The tax payment numbers are empirical evidence of his long history of duplicity on his business record (https://www.today.com/video/trump-tax-returns-raise-questions-about-his-business-expertise-analyst-says-92693061753). They show that most of his ventures, save for branding himself as a big-swinging CEO, have been abject failures.
(...)
Now, on the eve of the first presidential debate, Trump must choose: tell the American public that his tax filings were bogus or admit that he isn't the heavy-hitting CEO he says is.

A tragic distortion of a man. A ridiculous distortion of a businessman. A dangerous distortion of a state leader.

Skybird

09-28-20, 10:41 AM

Announced Fraud

Many Americans are concerned that Donald Trump would not recognize a loss in the presidential election. That is understandable, the President has publicly sowed doubts about a peaceful transfer of power.

But the real danger lurks elsewhere. It can take weeks until all votes are counted and the result is certain. Trump won't wait that long.

He has a plan B: He'll declare himself the winner beforehand - and that could work. The corona crisis and the chaotic American electoral system play into Trump's hands.

Trump has shown several times that he is unable to accept a defeat that has come about democratically. When he lost to his then rival Ted Cruz in the Republican primary in 2016, he spoke of fraud and called for a redial.

But why is Trump sowing further doubts about his democratic convictions just a few weeks before the presidential election? It is hardly to be expected that this will win over the important swing voters in the suburbs.
Trump no longer believes in a regular election victory

The explanation is simple: the president has given up hope of staying in power through the normal channels. The polls have seen his democratic adversary Joe Biden stable for weeks, even in important swing states. All of Trump's attempts to reduce Biden's lead have not been fruitful.

In order to remain president, Trump has to delegitimize the election. He's been trying that for months. The election will be "the greatest political hoax in history," he says.

His attacks are mainly aimed at postal voting. Because of the corona crisis, a record number of citizens will vote by letter. The massive fraud involved will "be a disgrace to our country," claims Trump.

There is no evidence for this. In the past it has been shown that postal voting is no more prone to fraud than regular going to the ballot box. The FBI director Christopher Wray confirmed this only last week.

Trump's tirades have an effect that at first sight seems to harm him. Many Republican voters do not want to cast their votes in the mail for fear of imaginary election fraud. But because the Republicans are particularly elected by older citizens who shy away from going to the polling station in times of the pandemic, Trump is weakening his own party with his baseless claims.

Nevertheless, this development suits the President. According to polls, Trump is ahead of voters who want to vote in person. Biden, on the other hand, had an even clearer lead among postal voters.
The most delicate scenario is the most likely

The scenario that Trump is speculating on and that many experts believe is likely looks like this: The president will lead on election night. Only when the postal votes are counted, which takes longer, does Biden catch up. In the end, the Democrat is ahead.

Trump does not want to let it get that far. The result must be known on election evening, he has emphasized several times. He will therefore proclaim himself the winner on election night.

Then the real battle for the election result begins. It can take a long time to count all votes. In the primary elections in New York this year, the winners were only known after a month.

Trump did everything possible to chaotize the election. He weakened the post office so that the ballot papers wouldn't arrive on time. He has blocked the necessary funds that states would have needed to prepare for the onslaught of postal voters. And his party tries to legally prevent any initiative that facilitates postal voting.

As a result, postal votes have already started in many countries, although legal issues have not yet been clarified. In the end, hundreds of thousands of votes cast in good faith could be invalid.

The more mess, the better for Trump. This increases the chance that the choice will not be made in a regular manner.

Trump has already made it clear that he expects the Supreme Court to determine the election winner in the end. That is why he wants to fill the position on the Supreme Court that has become vacant through the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg before the election. If voters don't grant Trump a second term, then the judges he appoints should do so.

It is entirely possible that this will happen. In the 2000 presidential election, Republican George W. Bush beat his Democratic rival Al Gore because the Conservative majority in the Supreme Court ordered an end to the Florida ballot count. Why shouldn't that be repeated?

Much is still uncertain. Maybe Trump will win anyway. Perhaps Biden's lead is so great that all of the president's tricks are unsuccessful. What is certain is that this time it is about more than just a change of power in the White House. The very survival of American democracy is at stake.

https://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/donald-trump-vor-der-us-wahl-betrug-mit-ankuendigung-a-90e86e09-c7f2-479c-825e-f6c49a93e4f2

mapuc

09-28-20, 11:14 AM

^ if all above should come true

The elected politicians and others has a long and a hard work ahead...reshape the election system in their country.

As I understand it...it must be the way the election laws is made, which can make Trump take these steps and decision.

Markus

Skybird

09-28-20, 02:03 PM

^ Trump certainly is ahead of the founding fathers, outthinking them by a lead of over 200 years. A natural desaster like a trump was unknown in their times, like Germany knew no tornadoes worth to be mentioned until just recent years.

I thoguht in past months twice that Trump would win, then thoght for some time Biden would, now think its open again, becasue the hardcore fans of Trump simply would fiorgive him practiclaly eveything, and if he looses the eleciton, I am 95% certain that he will play foul and stage a de facto coup. I said so already months ago - if he looses the election, he will play foul, no doubt on that.

He has very serious issues with accepting realities, you know. Or rules. Or truth.

u crank

09-28-20, 03:28 PM

I thoguht in past months twice that Trump would win, then thoght for some time Biden would, now think its open again, becasue the hardcore fans of Trump simply would fiorgive him practiclaly eveything,

Really? Are you suggesting that Biden's supporters have no reason to forgive him for anything? Joe Biden was first elected to the Senate in 1973. Nixon was President. Do the math. Just short of 45 years. It's a hell of a story if you were interested.

and if he looses the eleciton, I am 95% certain that he will play foul and stage a de facto coup.

Let me ask you a question. Could you name a single person in the Trump White House, his administration, the US military or even a Secret Service agent who would throw away their career, their livelihood and maybe risk jail to follow the orders of someone who isn't President?

August

09-28-20, 03:29 PM

Announced Fraud

https://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/donald-trump-vor-der-us-wahl-betrug-mit-ankuendigung-a-90e86e09-c7f2-479c-825e-f6c49a93e4f2

What drivel. :roll:

mapuc

09-28-20, 03:49 PM

Really? Are you suggesting that Biden's supporters have no reason to forgive him for anything? Joe Biden was first elected to the Senate in 1973. Nixon was President. Do the math. Just short of 45 years. It's a hell of a story if you were interested.

Let me ask you a question. Could you name a single person in the Trump White House, his administration, the US military or even a Secret Service agent who would throw away their career, their livelihood and maybe risk jail to follow the orders of someone who isn't President?

Some questions popped up after having read your answer to Skybird's comment.

1. Are you 100 % sure Trump wouldn't do as Skybird wrote and refuse to accept the outcome of the election-if the result says Biden won or the result isn't at hand (days after Nov. 3th)?
2. You know more about American politics and those who work in the White house than I ever will, but isn't there a chance thousands of his followers will occupy the White House(they will be invited by Trump) ?

Markus

Skybird

09-28-20, 04:19 PM

August

09-28-20, 04:36 PM

Don't make a theatre again. These kind of always the same rhetorical tricks have become quite transparent...

Why don't you just answer his question? You're such a self proclaimed expert on US politics and the Trump administration it should be quite easy for you. Or is your whole argument just your usual load anti-US crap, hmm? :hmmm:

mapuc

09-28-20, 04:55 PM

Why don't you just answer his question? You're such a self proclaimed expert on US politics and the Trump administration it should be quite easy for you. Or is your whole argument just your usual load anti-US crap, hmm? :hmmm:

If it's my question you are referring to, then it was u crank I asked. Which should be clear since I quoted him.

Oh my mistake-I forgot the second sentence in u crank comment.
Forget what I wrote.

Markus

August

09-28-20, 05:02 PM

Really? Are you suggesting that Biden's supporters have no reason to forgive him for anything? Joe Biden was first elected to the Senate in 1973. Nixon was President. Do the math. Just short of 45 years. It's a hell of a story if you were interested.

Let me ask you a question. Could you name a single person in the Trump White House, his administration, the US military or even a Secret Service agent who would throw away their career, their livelihood and maybe risk jail to follow the orders of someone who isn't President?

If it's my question you are referring to, then it was u crank I asked. Which should be clear since I quoted him.

Oh my mistake-I forgot the second sentence in u crank comment.
Forget what I wrote.

Markus

:):up:

u crank

09-28-20, 05:45 PM

Some questions popped up after having read your answer to Skybird's comment.

1. Are you 100 % sure Trump wouldn't do as Skybird wrote and refuse to accept the outcome of the election-if the result says Biden won or the result isn't at hand (days after Nov. 3th)?

As I have explained to Skybird on a number of occasions, it doesn't matter if Trump refuses to accept the outcome. If Biden is a clear winner or if the Supreme Court declares him to be the winner he will be President. And there is a long time to see how that goes. From Nov. 3 to Jan. 20.

2. ...but isn't there a chance thousands of his followers will occupy the White House(they will be invited by Trump) ?

Highly unlikely but even if they did it would not change anything. The power of the US Presidency isn't decided by who occupies a building. It comes from the Constitution.

u crank

09-28-20, 05:47 PM

Don't make a theatre again. These kind of always the same rhetorical tricks have become quite transparent...

You would make a good politcian. Never answer a direct question.

mapuc

09-28-20, 05:55 PM

August

09-28-20, 09:34 PM

The power of the US Presidency isn't decided by who occupies a building. It comes from the Constitution.

Well said. He won't listen but well said nonetheless.

Skybird

09-29-20, 05:58 AM

As I have explained to Skybird on a number of occasions, it doesn't matter if Trump refuses to accept the outcome. If Biden is a clear winner or if the Supreme Court declares him to be the winner he will be President. And there is a long time to see how that goes. From Nov. 3 to Jan. 20.

Highly unlikely but even if they did it would not change anything. The power of the US Presidency isn't decided by who occupies a building. It comes from the Constitution.
You just dont get it. You think a piece of patient paper with ink on it defines what will happen. Trump is not known for accepting realties he doe snto like. Ge paves the way to play foul sinc emonths. He has helped to chatoze the mail vote counting, so that he can create facts while democrats still count ballots. What he pans is not playing by the rulesl that you ut so much trust into - he plans to break the rules. And as long as he has so many minions willing to follow him on this athb as long as they see the chance to get away with it, his chances are very good that it will work. Trump works for hat the eleciton rsult just will not matter.

Get it, please. He is no follower of rules. he is a breaker of rules. Breakign the rules - IS POSSIBLE. Ameicna laws and consttrition are not made and have not forseen a phenomenon like Trump, they are very ill-prepared. thats why I say your blind faith is unfounded. Maybe Trump will be stopped. But he will not be stopped by him just obeying the rules. He will do what he can to play foul.

Its Mr. Harmless against Mr. Shameless. The Democrats made repeatedly the mistake to think they could tackle Trump by insdisting on some conosuions they drew from the existing rules - and they failed due to their corrut coutnerparts in the Republican party. Naivety is what I associate most with the Democrats.

Mitch OConnel aid he will help a clean transition. But that is the sam Mitch OConnel who made a certain demand on not calling a new judge to the Supreme Court in 2016 becasue the prsident was Obama, while now he has no problem with exactly the same thing becasue the president is a Republican, and it is the same Mitch OConnell who before and during the impeachment process said clearl yhe doe snto care for the truth and the guilt of Trump and for evidence no mater what it is, he will clean Trump no matter what. Such a ma's assurance son clean transitions in case of defeat mena nothing, he is neither honest nor noble, but is a viper with poisonous fangs and a split tongue. He will forget his latest words as lng as he sees chances for team Trump getting away with a coup. Like so many other Republicans as well.

Its not about playing by th erules. its about how to break them - and gettign away with it. This is what gives Trump very good chances, unfortunately. By playing foul. Preparing for that, he does since months now.

And you play wordgames with me...?!

Bilge_Rat

09-29-20, 06:32 AM

if Trump is not declared the winner under the various mechanisms provided for under the U.S. Constitution, his mandate ends at noon on jan. 20, 2021.

simple as that.

everything else is just conspiracy theories.

Skybird

09-29-20, 06:55 AM

Precisely.

I just think you have not gotten the implication from that. A link between votes and declaration of th ewinner - is not given. And thats what Trump aims at: delay the counting ofmail votes, hindering it at courts, and gets declared winner BEFORE the count is completed and the time limit is reached.

He delitimizes the vote already in advance, since months!

Guys, you really must put off your opportunistic naivety. Else you will get washed away by reality for the second time this year.

But maybe some people accept even dirty tricks if only it leaves their man in power. Because for some people the cause justifies every means.

u crank

09-29-20, 07:01 AM

You just dont get it. You think a piece of patient paper with ink on it defines what will happen.

And as long as he has so many minions willing to follow him on this athb as long as they see the chance to get away with it, his chances are very good that it will work. Trump works for hat the eleciton rsult just will not matter.

Yea I do get it. It isn't the paper and ink Skybird, it is the forces arrayed behind it. That is the part you seem clueless about. Who would go along with what you are suggesting? Mike Pence? Mike Pompeo? Anyone in Trump's cabinet? Name one person who has even remotely suggested such a thing. Name a single GOP Senator or Congressman who has. Your imagination is running wild.

Here's something else you should consider. Since Trump became President there have been two very well orchestrated attemps to remove him from office. What do you think these people will do? Applaud from the sidelines? Think about that for even a second.

But that is the sam Mitch OConnel who made a certain demand on not calling a new judge to the Supreme Court in 2016 becasue the prsident was Obama, while now he has no problem with exactly the same thing becasue the president is a Republican

Wrong again. It is not the exact same thing. Look it up before saying stuff like this. When Obama tried to nominate Merrick Garland the Republicans controled the Senate. What part of that don't you understand? The party that has the majority in the Senate controls who will get to the Supreme Court. Why is that so hard to understand?

And you play wordgames with me...?!

Is that your best argument?

Skybird

09-29-20, 08:29 AM

Those will follow Trump'S dirty tricks who see a chance to get away with doing so. The craving for power is strong in these apprentices. Law and order - is just a slogan these days. And many abuse it to fit their own show. For the x-th time, u_crank: the system is not designed to deal with a phenomenon like Trump, he is somehtign that was unimaginable for the designers of the system. Unforseeable.Its like an immue system meeting a new virus for the first time: ther eis no immunity then. It must learn from scratch about this new virus. Just that maybe some epopel learn about this new potlicla virus - but they refuse to adapt to it to learn hwo to fight it. Its harmlessness versus shamelessness in the current confrontation.

If Trump can delay the countign of mail ballot slogn enough, no matter how, he can pose as practist and edclare himself winne rof th eeleciton earlyl cretaign facts that then form theitr own dynamic. thats how it is. And then he gets annoucned as president, and the system will not stop it. BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN BYPASSED.

Trump has the shamelessness and unscrupulousness to go this way to the maximum possible bitter end. I hope I am wrong, but I see him preparing to go this way for sure since month - I know the danger is real, therefore. Hopes are cheap, what I hope means nothing.

u crank

09-29-20, 10:36 AM

Those will follow Trump'S dirty tricks who see a chance to get away with doing so. The craving for power is strong in these apprentices.

Who are these apprentices Skybird? Can you name even one of them?

For the x-th time, u_crank: the system is not designed to deal with a phenomenon like Trump, he is somehtign that was unimaginable for the designers of the system.

Please explain exactly how the system will fail. Can you give any specific examples? Enough vague accusations. Tell us exactly how this will be done. If you can't then I suspect that you don't know what you are talking about.

If Trump can delay the countign of mail ballot slogn enough, no matter how, he can pose as practist and edclare himself winne rof th eeleciton earlyl cretaign facts that then form theitr own dynamic. thats how it is. And then he gets annoucned as president, and the system will not stop it. BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN BYPASSED.

Where do you come up with this stuff? The President does not control the elections in America. Did you know that? All elections, federal, state, and local, are administered by the individual states. The President is not involved. Nor does he have any authority to get involved. So again for the x-th time explain how he could do this. Give us some actual facts instead of your conspiracy theories. Do you think Trump is some kind of magician? Can he stop time and make objects disappear? Please explain exactly how your nightmare will come true.

Onkel Neal

09-29-20, 10:57 AM

You just dont get it. You think a piece of patient paper with ink on it defines what will happen. Trump is not known for accepting realties he doe snto like. Ge paves the way to play foul sinc emonths. He has helped to chatoze the mail vote counting, so that he can create facts while democrats still count ballots. What he pans is not playing by the rulesl that you ut so much trust into - he plans to break the rules. And as long as he has so many minions willing to follow him on this athb as long as they see the chance to get away with it, his chances are very good that it will work. Trump works for hat the eleciton rsult just will not matter

Get it, please. He is no follower of rules. he is a breaker of rules. Breakign the rules - IS POSSIBLE. Ameicna laws and consttrition are not made and have not forseen a phenomenon like Trump, teir corrut coutnerparts in the Republican party. Naivety is what I associate most with the Democrats.

Mitch OConnel aid he will help a clean transition. But that is the sam Mitch OConnel who made a certain demand on not calling a new judge to the Supreme Court in 2016 becasue the prsident was Obama, while now he has no problem with exactly the same thing becasue the president is a Republican, and it is the same Mitch OConnell who before and during the impeachment process said clearl yhe doe snto care for the truth and the guilt of Trump and for evidence no mater what it is, he will clean Trump no matter what. Such a ma's assurance son clean transitions in case of defeat mena nothing, he is neither hones

Its not about playing by th erules. its about how to break them - and gettign away with it. This is what gives Trump very good chances, unfortunately. By playing foul. Preparing for that, he does since
And you play wordgames with me...?!

I think you are overreacting a lot as well as confusing Trump's casual manner of upsetting the norms and conventions with being a malicious, evil despot. My recommendation: cut back on the MSM news sources, all you think you know is not all there is.

Jimbuna

09-29-20, 11:34 AM

Tens of millions of US voters will tune in for the first of three presidential debates tonight which could prove to be quite entertaining.

The six topics to be debated are: Trump and Biden's records, the Supreme Court, Coronavirus pandemic, race protests and violence in cities, election integrity and the economy.

Personally speaking, I think Biden may well be more at risk here than Trump.

August

09-29-20, 05:40 PM

If Trump can delay the countign of mail ballot slogn enough,

You do realize Mr. Expert at Everyones Business that the POTUS or his administration does not count the vote? He can't delay it, he can't speed it up. That is up to the election authorities of each of the 50 states.

mapuc

09-29-20, 05:47 PM

You do realize Mr. Expert at Everyones Business that the POTUS or his administration does not count the vote? He can't delay it, he can't speed it up. That is up to the election authorities of each of the 50 states.

The same goes here in Denmark and in Sweden.

The politicians CAN'T affect the counting of the votes or try to alter them after the ballot boxes have closed at 2000 hrs local time.

Only before the politicians can try to affect the voters.

Markus

Sean C

09-29-20, 11:29 PM

[REDACTED]

You know, I just posted about being nice to each other. I'll take that back. Apologies.

skidman

09-30-20, 01:30 AM

Debating Donald Trump is like debating a chimpanzee: he is less likely to deliver a thoughtful and substantive answer than he is to throw his own feces at you.
Moira Donegan, The Guardian

Skybird

09-30-20, 03:31 AM

Ekelhaft.

The declaration of political bancruptcy of america. More worse than worse. The parties should be execut ed for daring to set up these candidates - and for their(the parties') own self-understanding. Trump certainly showed his true inner essence: dirt from the gutter. Biden showed he has not the strength to be a full time president.

Worse than I feared. Americas political culture is done. Dead, buried and rotten. Nothing left to pay it tribute for or to respect it for. The idealistic legacy was promsing and respectable. The present is a toxic waste pit.

:down::down::down::down:

Zum Kotzen.

Skybird

09-30-20, 04:39 AM

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/us-wahl/article216880856/Trump-vs-Biden-Amerikas-Offenbarungseid.html

Donald Trump's appearance was the condensed version of his presidency: loud, unrestricted, arrogant and poor in substance. The TV duel is an example of what happens when the unwritten norms of civil discourse are abandoned.

If there's one constant in Donald Trump's tenure, it's this: rules are only there to be broken by him. And decency is for losers. And so it is no wonder that the first TV duel of the current presidential campaign quickly turned into a screaming event because Trump constantly interrupted the answers of his challenger Joe Biden.

Moderator Chris Wallace called Trump to order after just a few minutes and accused him several times of breaking the rules that his team had expressly agreed to. Which didn't stop the president from acting like the head bully in the schoolyard. Quite a few observers said afterwards that it was the worst TV debate between presidential candidates they had ever seen. In lightning polls, more than two-thirds of viewers said that they were mainly angry about the TV duel.

Although Biden lost his composure every now and then, the blame for this mud fight clearly lies with the incumbent president - and with the moderator Chris Wallace, who failed to bring Trump under control. In order to save Wallace's honor, however, it must be said that this would only have been possible if he had simply turned off the microphone to Trump at some point. And he probably lacked the courage to do so.

Trump's appearance was in a way the condensed version of his presidency: an irrepressible urge to break rules, constant lies and falsehoods (far more than Biden), full of self-importance and poor in substance. Trump even interrupted Biden when he was talking about his son Beau, who had served as a US soldier in Iraq and later died of cancer.

This debate revealed little about content and policy approaches. Most importantly, it showed that America has a behavioral president who lacks self-control - but that's not exactly new news. And that Biden might not be an exciting challenger, but at least someone with common sense and a stable personality. And that would bring something like normalcy back to the White House after the years of Trump’s chaos and state of emergency.

But the TV duel also showed that the election day thing will probably not be over. Trump spoke again of election manipulation and raised doubts about the integrity of the electoral process. Again, it sounded like preparing a line of reasoning so as not to recognize the election if he should lose. Trump also refused to explicitly condemn white racists. When asked about the “Proud Boys”, the neo-Nazis who have just tried to stir up Portland, Trump said they should “hold back and be ready”. Stand by for what? Maybe it was just a slip of the tongue. On the other hand, it is not the first time that Trump has toyed with the idea of violent conflict after the election. "It won't end well," Trump said of the upcoming election. Perhaps one of his most honest statements that evening.

This debate exemplified what happens when the unwritten norms of civil democratic discourse, which Trump has eroded like no other president before him, are abandoned. The TV debate was an oath of revelation in how far America has fallen in the Trump era. And it should be a cautionary example for other democracies of what can happen if you vote a bully like Trump to really stir up politics and punish the establishment.

Now the Americans have to decide whether they want to endure this kind of unbounded discourse for another four years.

---------------------------------------------------

And I add: their decision falls back on them. A population that accepts such a brutal, unlimited political degeneration from its parties and politicians as is to be seen since many years in the US, has given up its claim to cultural participation in the civilized world.
This night was a game changer for me, kind of. I always was critical of the difference between how the US was meant, its idealistic fundaments in history, and the disillusionising present, but felt a principal sympathy for it, still. But even that sympathy came more and more under stress and test in the past three years. And now its over, it died tonight. From me America has nothing to expect anymore. The wanring from how easily Trump became possible and came to powers, will never be forgotten again. What was possible once can happen easily twice. And become the norm.

Bilge_Rat

09-30-20, 07:00 AM

Please.

That is just typical anti-Trump spin.

I watched the debate.

Trump was vintage Trump, about what you would expect.

Biden did not drool, but he looked old and he clearly did not know how to handle Trump's attacks.

The debate won't change anyone's mind. If you are a Trump supporter, you will think he did well. If you are a Biden supporter, you will think he did well.

Personally, I am even more convinced that Biden is just plain too old and lacks the mental acuity to be President. Sad.

Skybird

09-30-20, 07:43 AM

No, done with it all. That these two are all a political system meant to rule 330 million people is able and willing to set up for choice, is a revelation, and is telltale. Senile Mr. Harmless and Tyranno Shameless Rex. Ugh, America! Ugh! Pfui Deibel!

The party headquarters, congress, senate, ministries and white house need huge doses of this, sprayed by helicopters.

https://www.buschmann-buero.de/media/image/0e/2e/eb/A010170G.jpg

AVGWarhawk

09-30-20, 10:19 AM

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/us-wahl/article216880856/Trump-vs-Biden-Amerikas-Offenbarungseid.html

[I]Donald Trump's appearance was the condensed version of his presidency: loud, unrestricted, arrogant and poor in substance. The TV duel is an example of what happens when the unwritten norms of civil discourse are abandoned.

And loving it. :03: Maybe civil norms in politics was never civil. Just a matter of perspective.

Skybird

09-30-20, 10:35 AM

And loving it. :03: Maybe civil norms in politics was never civil. Just a matter of perspective.
An attempt to relativise the immense damage done by Trump. But he sets new records in political misbehaviour. And they are nullifying the old marks by others before by quantum leaps. The destruction is without precedence in American and modern Western history at least.

mapuc

09-30-20, 11:33 AM

Following statement is based on my own opinion/standpoint regarding this debate.

They say they couldn't find a decisive winner in last night debate. I on the other hand can say who lost this debate.

Mr. Trump.

I say his behavior was disgraceful...not a statesman worthy

But what do I know about American politics and the rhetoric used in these presidential election.

Biden was a disaster too. Weak. He wasn't aggressive enough, he shouldn't have let Trump interrupting him so easy-which was he many times lost the thread.

Markus

Catfish

09-30-20, 03:12 PM

mapuc

09-30-20, 03:56 PM

^ There's another thing Some voters may see Trump aggressive behaviour as a sign of "A person who know what to do and not afraid to take charge" -
While some voters may see Biden "as a very defensive candidate unable to take charge when needed"

The next poll will be interesting to read.

Markus

Onkel Neal

09-30-20, 04:00 PM

We really want to stay out of this, but

https://i.imgur.com/aXWlOUGl.jpg

Amen that, brother. :k_confused:

I think someone finally got smart and maybe the next debate will fix this by adding a mute button for the moderator. Then we can see Trumpy's lips flapping but not hear any sound from him. Maybe, just maybe, that will fix his brain-dead rudeness.

If Biden somehow pulls it out and wins this election I'm going to LMAO at Trump.

Texas Red

09-30-20, 04:33 PM

I watched it for only like a minute and I knew it was gonna be a disaster. I just went to my room and continued watching NCIS.....

Sometimes, America seems like its gonna fall apart.

Anyways, I'm much to young to be doing this kind of stuff. But its all I see on the news:

Trump says (insert crazy terriost like statement)
Trump says (insert "leftist" comment)
Coronavirus is (Insert depressing event or statstic)

NEGATIVES NEGATIVES NEGATIVES!

Just give us something that can lift our spirits and raise American morale? Give us actual news, where you present both sides instead of just one side that usually supports each politcal parties stances or values. I remember my mom telling us that there are signs that the curve is flatenning in our area. Oh boy did I feel happy. This was in the middle or a little bit after the lockdown, and we heard depressing news about the Poltical stuff or the pandemic or riots and looting in Chicago most of the time, and it felt good.

All we need, or I need, now is some positive things to help lift our spirits. I am constantly thinking Will I wake up tomorrow and find out my mother tested positive? Is tomorrow or next week guarranteed to me? Will my time be up before I even turn 14? Will I even see the end of the pandemic?

Thoughts that don't weigh very well on a young mind...

Morale right now for me is not very good, and the debate did not help either. I wish we had a leader like Abraham Lincoln or FDR take over and navigate us through this mess.

I just wish we had something positive for once.

Skybird

09-30-20, 05:32 PM

https://i.imgur.com/aXWlOUGl.jpg

:haha: :yeah:

And I hope the next debates have commercials in them, best would be if these last 90 minutes in total.

mapuc

09-30-20, 05:37 PM

They have said there will be changes in the way the debate is done.

During this famous debate I came to think of a box
Don't know what the real name is in English.
In a popular Swedish tv program called
"på spåret"= "on the track" the competitors is sitting inside these boxes, where the moderator can shut of the mic to one of the sides in this program.

Imagine Trump sitting in one of these boxes, outgoing sound is off..
Turning his microphone of while he stands in the free...will only make him shout out the words.

Of course Secret Service would never allow this.

Markus

Onkel Neal

09-30-20, 09:30 PM

You know, the way things are going in politics, the inept and idiotic response to Covid19, and after that debate performance, I think I'm just going to vote for Patrick J. Buchanan like I did in 2016. I don't want to have anything to do with this awful show.

Sean C

10-01-20, 02:30 AM

I watched it for only like a minute and I knew it was gonna be a disaster. I just went to my room and continued watching NCIS.....

Same. It was pure chaos.

Sean C

10-01-20, 02:32 AM

I think I'm just going to vote for Patrick J. Buchanan like I did in 2016.

There are other choices.

As of September 21, 2020, there are 1,202 candidates who filed to run for President of the United States, including:

323 Democratic candidates
164 Republican candidates
65 Libertarian candidates
23 Green candidates

Click here for a complete list of presidential candidates registered with the FEC. (https://ballotpedia.org/List_of_registered_2020_presidential_candidates)

... Just sayin'.

Mr Quatro

10-01-20, 10:03 AM

God the Father of us all may have a little something to say about who wins
this National Election.

Read the Old Testament :yep:

Elohim (a name for God used frequently in the Hebrew Bible)
decides all of these things.

Early voting may have already started, but God has already chosen one
of these men to lead the USA for the next four years.

or has he really decided that VP Mike Pence will be the next president when
President Trump steps down in 2021?

Which I have been saying all along that Trump will win and then turn the WH over to VP Pence.

Platapus

10-01-20, 11:08 AM

Pat Paulson 2020

Sure he is dead, but that's an improvement over the current candidates.

mapuc

10-01-20, 11:12 AM

If I was an American citizens and it was possible to put my vote Homer Simpson then my vote would go to him.

Markus

Skybird

10-01-20, 03:50 PM

America, you need this one:

https://fanboyplanet.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/Jean-Grey-Cyclops.jpg

raymond6751

10-01-20, 04:24 PM

If I were American, I'd be worrying what will happen either way it goes. Trump hates Canada, where I live.

It wouldn't be the first time a weakened government went to war to unite the country against a common enemy. We are as close as Mexico!

I love Americans, lived there, worked there, and worry for all the very good people that I met.

Good luck to our neighbours who are in crisis.

Jimbuna

10-02-20, 03:33 AM

Now that the POTUS and FLOTUS have tested positive for COVID-19 what possible consequence could there be for the election?

Mr Quatro

10-02-20, 04:38 AM

I just found out this alarming news ... :oops:

Now I am afraid to turn on the TV to watch the naysayers :o

Probably will spend two weeks inside and come back to haunt us all by Halloween and still win the National Election ... a certain percentage still love him no matter what CNN says :yep:

Catfish

10-02-20, 05:07 AM

God the Father of us all may have a little something to say about who wins this National Election.

Read the Old Testament :yep:

Elohim (a name for God used frequently in the Hebrew Bible)
decides all of these things. [and so on].
:doh: Excuse me, but i would like to write a short comment.
I know that the pilgrims(!) who left England for America were mostly puritans with an according mindset, and the latter is still strong in America although we write the year 2020.

The bible makes no direct comment or hint on abortion (the word "abortion" does not appear in any translation of the bible) or the US election, also it directly says (especially the old testament) that salvation is for jews, and only for jews. Not for catholics, not for christians, not for mulims, hindus, whatever. Only "The chosen people", read: jews.

Also, according to the bible, life begins at birth - when a baby draws its first breath. The bible defines life as "breath" in several significant passages, including the story of Adam's creation in Genesis 2:7, when God "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Jewish law traditionally considers that personhood begins at birth.

Of course the bible has been written by humans, not by god, and it cannot be taken literally, nor should it.

Regarding abortion since this seems to be one hot topic in the US, the bible makes no comment on this, apart from "Thou shalt not murder" (no one cares about that when it come to non-Americans, or to Americans who just left school and were sent to e.g. Vietnam to kill and be killed), which is meant in a different context. Pregnant women may be slain, if they did wrong, according to the bible.

https://ffrf.org/component/k2/item/25602-abortion-rights

The bible also condemns adultery, lying, being rich (yes, read it for once), brazenness, vanity, pride, self-praise and all Trump stands for. If there is a god he should have smashed him already.

Mr Quatro

10-02-20, 05:16 AM

:doh: Excuse me, but i would like to write a short comment.
I know that the pilgrims(!) who left England for America were mostly puritans with an according mindset, and the latter is still strong in America although we write the year 2020.

The bible makes no direct comment or hint on abortion or the US election, also it directly says (especially the old testament) that salvation is for jews, and only for jews. Not for catholics, not for christians.

Of course the bible has been written by humans, not by god, and it cannot be taken literally, nor should it.

Regarding abortion since this seems to be one hot topic in the US, the bible makes no comment on this, apart from "Thou shalt not murder" (no one cares about that when it come to non-Americans, or to Americans who just left school and were sent to e.g. Vietnam to kill and be killed), which is meant in a different context. Pregnant women may be slain, if they did wrong, according to the bible.

The bible also condemns adultery, lying, being rich (yes, read it for once), brazenness, vanity, pride, self-praise and all Trump stands for. If there is a god he should have smashed him already.

I'm sorry you don't believe in or understand how the Spirit of the Living God works Catfish, but this is no place to air your personal views on America and it's faith in God. All of our denominations say "In God we trust"

I shall PM your problem to heaven ... now lets end this conversation and return to the election process. What I posted previously was a prophecy that seems to be coming true as we speak.

"President Trump will still win the election November 3rd and then turn the WH over to the VP Mike Pence"

Skybird

10-02-20, 05:34 AM

I'm sorry you don't believe in or understand how the Spirit of the Living God works Catfish, but this is no place to air your personal views on America and it's faith in God. All of our denominations say "In God we trust"

This is also no place to air your own religious beliefs and imply they are shared by all your countrymen, and everybody not sharing your views is a pitiful individual that must be looked down on in a condescending manner.

"In God we trust" and "under God" btw are modern things only that originally had no place in your national pledge of allegiance and on your coins and notes. Not before the early 50s the conservative catholic order of the Knights of Columbus massively lobbied for its addition to the existing historic formula, representing a non-constitutional preferering of a religious special interests over the secular base nature of your nation. It also violates the First Amendement: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." The attempts of silently turning institutions, education systems and even whole branches of the Armed Forces from secular, non-religous/religion-neutral institutions into "Christian clubs", is silenty being pushed since years and decades, like evangelicals wage war on science and evolution theory at schools. But that goes against the very essence of what America was based upon from beginning on: the assumption that freedom of religion necessarily also must imply freedom FROM religion. Else it all becomes as much a tyranny and suppression as the one the pilgrims were fleeing from when they left Europe.

And then there is the clause in article 11 of the treaty of Tripolis... ("As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.")

skidman

10-02-20, 05:35 AM

but this is no place to air your personal views on America and it's faith in God.

If this is true, why are you doing it all the time?

Mr Quatro

10-02-20, 05:39 AM

We have both expressed our thoughts with words ... lets return to the topic of who will be nominated for the next POTUS :yep:

Jimbuna

10-02-20, 05:41 AM

We have both expressed our thoughts with words ... lets return to the topic of who will be nominated for the next POTUS :yep:

Sounds good to me :yep:

Catfish

10-02-20, 06:39 AM

We have both expressed our thoughts with words ... lets return to the topic of who will be nominated for the next POTUS :yep:
It was not me who brought up god into context with your election, but np it is all ok :)

mapuc

10-02-20, 10:35 AM

A politician has two faces-Public and private.

I hope Mr Trump will recover from this infection without any problems.
This is towards his private face.

Public Well, since he has on several occasion mocked made fun of this virus, I hope he will feel what it can do to a person.

I also wonder, as Jim, what will happen with the ongoing election, if the worst should happen ?

Markus

Onkel Neal

10-03-20, 09:12 AM

https://twitter.com/JohnCammo/status/1306863435125202946?s=20

JohnCammo
@JohnCammo
·
Sep 18

Trump’s October surprise will be the announcement of “his infection.” Fake, but quite dramatic. This twist will blow Biden off the screens, the “Trump COVID watch” dominating every minute of every day. Then, 14 days later, Trump will emerge, 100% cured by hydroxychloroquine.

Oh boy, I need this guy to pick my stocks.

Jimbuna

10-03-20, 09:56 AM

BBC news are reporting...

The president's physician Dr Sean Conley is due to give an update on Trump's condition from the Walter Reed military hospital where he is being treated at 11:00 Eastern Time (16:00 BST), according to US media.

Aktungbby

10-03-20, 11:17 AM

"In God we trust"
"President Trump will still win the election November 3rd and then turn the WH over to the VP Mike Pence"

We have both expressed our thoughts with words ... lets return to the topic of who will be nominated for the next POTUS :yep:

BBC news are reporting...As Ronald Reagan once said: "I cannot believe one can hold the office of President without having been an Actor"...this includes bad acting as well. I pray for the speedy recovery of the the Donald(star of "You're Fired"):down::Kaleun_Mad:and his Max Magazine Slovenian starlet:yeah:(apologies to U-Crank :O:)...that he may POTUS his FLOTUS once again in the Stormy offal office!:arrgh!: But I'm not votin' myself in this white trash pissin' contest,(that was no TV debate)I'm simply Bidin' my time this election! :haha:

Mr Quatro

10-03-20, 03:31 PM

^ :yep: Do your really talk like that Aktung?

You sound southern, but I know your not :shucks:

Aktungbby

10-03-20, 04:16 PM

^ :yep: Do your really talk like that Aktung?

You sound southern, but I know your not :shucks:Sorry, I sip Southern Comfort in my 14th TN Confederate re-enactor field gear on Saturdays...it tends ta 'fluence yer thinkin' sum....Armistead can relate! Throw in Mark Twain, an' Thomas Wolfe, an' trukkin' 3 years thru the South in ma formative years with real trucke'mup cropduster codrivers who really plow behind mules insistin' DamnYankee is one word...tends ta warp yer linguistics considerablelike...:03: credit to U though: your awful plate of Philippine fish picture inspired my use of 'offal office!':Kaleun_Salute:

Onkel Neal

10-04-20, 10:10 AM

SNL nailed the debate :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsije1KetVw

FeatsOfStrength

10-06-20, 06:07 PM

Just voted in the UK, bring on November 4th :D
https://i.imgur.com/8duEEo4.jpg

Jimbuna

10-07-20, 05:33 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yHBU_moBHQ

Mr Quatro

10-07-20, 12:36 PM

How can you possibly believe polls?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/10/06/yes-clinton-also-had-big-lead-2016-this-isnt-2016/

In mid-October 2016, after all, CBS News released a poll showing Hillary Clinton leading Trump by 14 points

But to be fair I took this data from a Washington Post article that was unfavorable to Trumps campaign.

I still think Obama did something wrong while in office and will come out before the election sinking VP Biden with him.

Plus Trump really is sick and he might get a boost tonight with the VP debate.

Seed thought Harris is the one running for POTUS :o

Aktungbby

10-07-20, 12:41 PM

Seed thought Harris is the one running for POTUS :oShe'll be a FLOTUS POTUS!:O:

Jimbuna

10-07-20, 02:55 PM

How can you possibly believe polls?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/10/06/yes-clinton-also-had-big-lead-2016-this-isnt-2016/

But to be fair I took this data from a Washington Post article that was unfavorable to Trumps campaign.

I still think Obama did something wrong while in office and will come out before the election sinking VP Biden with him.

Plus Trump really is sick and he might get a boost tonight with the VP debate.

Seed thought Harris is the one running for POTUS :o

I'm quietly confident tonight's debate will be a lot more civil than the one last week.

Platapus

10-07-20, 04:39 PM

It is important to understand what a poll and the associated statistics are. It is an estimate (guess) of what a larger population will do based on a sampling of what a smaller population did (or say they will do).

Nothing more, nothing less. Despite the number of decimal points, it is still an estimate. An estimate that is "usually" pretty good.

There are a lot of assumptions when it comes to calculating probabilities based on these types of statistics.

People also need to understand probabilities derived from polls. Probabilities are, of course, different than statistics.

Assume that a probability calculation states that there is a 99% chance that candidate A will win and a 1% chance that candidate B will win.

After the election candidate B won.

Were the polls and the probability derived from those polls wrong?

No. They were not wrong. There was a 1% chance that candidate B would win and that 1% occurred.

Now, if a hundred elections were conducted, one would expect the outcome that Candidate A would win close to 99 times and Candidate B would win close to 1 time.

On the average over many elections, Candidate A will win almost all the time and Candidate B will lose almost all the time. Probabilities work better over large attempts as the results will "average" out.

However, we don't have a hundred elections. We have 1. Even if Candidate B has a 0.00000000001% chance of winning, it is possible that in one election candidate B wins. Unlikely, but not impossible.

If Candidate B wins, the probability calculations were accurate.

If Candidate A wins, the probability calculations were accurate.

Only if the probability calculations indicated that candidate B has 0% chance of winning, would the calculations be wrong if candidate B actually wins.

That's the problem with using probability to "predict" the outcome of a single event such as an election. Long shots can still come in first. People do win lotteries.

This can lead some people to believe that the States/probabilities were somehow wrong. Having an outcome that one disagrees with does not mean that the calculations were wrong. Disappointment does not equal error.

So if a properly conducted poll indicates that the estimation on the larger population is:

75% Candidate A
25% Candidate B

Don't count out Candidate B. That candidate can still win.

All that can be derived from this is that it is more likely that an individual not part of the sample population will most likely vote for Candidate A than for Candidate B.

BTW, don't confuse this with a claim that Candidate A has a 75% chance of winning. More information is needed to calculate an accurate probability.

Polling and the stats/probabilities generated can be hard to understand because it can become complicated. If you read the methodology for a poll (and you should not accept any polling information without understanding the methodologies used) it can make your head hurt.

There is a reason why politicians and the news media likes polls -- They are easy to misinterpret and misunderstand. Each uses them to their advantage.

For the purpose of an election, polls are mildly entertaining at best. But no one should be basing their vote on a poll. :nope:

Aktungbby

10-07-20, 05:21 PM

I'm quietly confident tonight's debate will be a lot more civil than the one last week....only 'cause they'll have a moderator with your vast :subsim:-honed acumen, oversight, and no Bovinated Scatology tolerated ethic from meglomaniacs this time!:D

Jimbuna

10-08-20, 04:38 AM

Found this funny when you consider what flies are attracted to and especially if you are spouting it :)

Check out this short clip at 03:00

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54459078

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54459544

Jimbuna

10-08-20, 08:39 AM

President Donald Trump has refused to take part in a virtual TV debate with his Democratic rival Joe Biden.

Earlier the commission deciding the 15 October Miami debate's format said it would have to take place remotely.

It made the decision after Mr Trump was treated for Covid-19. He has no current symptoms but the White House is tackling a cluster of positive tests.

Mr Trump said the move to virtual was to "protect" his rival. Mr Biden's campaign said he would participate.

The Democrat's campaign said he "looks forward to speaking directly to the American people".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54465139

I think it a tad cheeky when you consider he is supposed to be the only one infected.

Also a clear indication of some of his past exploits/behaviour when he thinks he can call all the shots.

AVGWarhawk

10-08-20, 03:01 PM

I think it a tad cheeky when you consider he is supposed to be the only one infected.

Also a clear indication of some of his past exploits/behaviour when he thinks he can call all the shots.

Trump will not take part because Joe Biden will be fed answers. The first debate Biden was advised no ear pieces will be used. I believe he was checked for one before the debate started. A virtual debate? Hell, the could use a teleprompter off set for Joe to read answers to questions he probably will receive before the debate. We have seen this in the past. I'm sorry, Biden is not all together there. It is evident with his jibberish from time to time. No questions from the press. Hiding in his basement bunker.

Skybird

10-08-20, 03:49 PM

Donald Trump likes to portray himself as a macho who fearlessly takes over leadership. But now he's pinching. After his catastrophic performance in the TV duel eight days ago, which caused him to fall further in the polls, he has canceled his participation in the upcoming debate with Joe Biden, which was to be organized in town hall format with questions from the audience.

Trump justified the cancellation with the decision of the organizers to allow the debates to take place virtually via video switch. There are good reasons for this. After all, nobody knows whether the President, who is sick with Corona, may still be contagious at the debate next week. And after Trump's personal doctor lied several times in the past few days about the state of health of the president, there is hardly any trust in the corona tests that the White House wanted to prove before the debate. The fact that the president refuses to use a virtual format even after his illness shows once again how little he has learned from the events of the past few days. And how little he cares about the health of others who might come into contact with him.

In an interview with the TV broadcaster "Fox Business", Trump also gave insights into why he is actually backing down: Because he is afraid that he will use his aggressive bullying tactics from the last TV duel, with which he largely prevented a substantive debate, can no longer apply. "That's not what a debate is about," Trump criticized the virtual format. “You sit behind a computer and discuss. That's ridiculous, and they'll cut you off whenever they want. "

That makes it clear what this cancellation is really about: Trump wanted to violently violate the agreed rules of debate in the second duel as well as in the first and fears that the moderator will turn off the microphone for him if he is assaulted again. Finally, the Debate Commission had announced “additional structures” “to ensure a proper discussion”.

So the president is pinching because it would make it harder for him to break the rules. It's like a notorious foul player complaining that the referee brought yellow and red cards onto the field this time around.

This shows in concentrated form the understanding of norms that have characterized Trump's entire term in office, according to which rules apply to everyone else. But only not for the president himself.

Unable. Cowardly. Insidious.

Sean C

10-08-20, 04:37 PM

The first debate Biden was advised no ear pieces will be used. I believe he was checked for one before the debate started.

Trump's campaign claims that Biden's team reneged on their agreement to this just before the debate. Don't know if that's true.

Mr Quatro

10-08-20, 08:37 PM

Trump justified the cancellation with the decision of the organizers to allow the debates to take place virtually via video switch. There are good reasons for this. After all, nobody knows whether the President, who is sick with Corona, may still be contagious at the debate next week. And after Trump's personal doctor lied several times in the past few days about the state of health of the president, there is hardly any trust in the corona tests that the White House wanted to prove before the debate.

I think there is more truth to this fact that Trump is still sick even though he feels good. They say the same treatment would cost the average American citizen 100k, but I sure wouldn't mind some free meds to combat the problem that he is offering.

I'm sitting here right now with flue like symptoms, but I'm sure it's just a cold and not Covid-19.

Looking forward to Trump getting better and making a come back for the third debate scheduled for October 22nd will be the third and final presidential debate at
Belmont University in Nashville, Tennessee.

AVGWarhawk

10-08-20, 08:46 PM

Unable. Cowardly. Insidious.

Another baseless article.

Skybird

10-09-20, 12:13 AM

Another baseless article.
https://i2.wp.com/www.braintank.ch/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Vogelstrausspolitik.png?fit=447%2C219&ssl=1

Skybird

10-09-20, 12:24 AM

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/09/politics/donald-trump-health-coronavirus-election-2020/index.html

He is just absurd now.

And he abuses and accuses gold star families of having infected him. Well, "shamelessness" finds new depths of meaning whenever he opens his mouth.

Skybird

10-09-20, 02:48 AM

"My infection was a blessing from God!"

.................................................. ........................................"If you see his recent polls, he's really right!"

https://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/segen_ts/26259592/2-format1007.jpg

Jimbuna

10-09-20, 04:53 AM

Does anyone know the latest stats in the forthcoming election? Is Biden still seven points ahead?

Skybird

10-09-20, 05:08 AM

National polls as of today range from 9 to 16 points for Biden, depending on what poll you ask.

Jimbuna

10-09-20, 05:34 AM

Apparently so, I've just come across this:

Biden leading in six critical states needed for victory. States include those lost by Hillary Clinton in 2016
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-07/trump-hit-with-wave-of-grim-poll-results-for-battleground-states

(Give the video time to stream)

Mr Quatro

10-12-20, 11:26 AM

Wow! I'm glad they caught this in time, but it's still a threat for the next three weeks. I think I will just watch TV for my election results. :yep:

Microsoft takes down massive hacking operation that could have affected the election

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/microsoft-takes-down-massive-hacking-operation-that-could-have-affected-the-election/ar-BB19WpAM

The company said Monday it took down the servers behind Trickbot, an enormous malware network that criminals were using to launch other cyberattacks, including a strain of highly potent ransomware.

Trickbot allowed hackers to sell what Microsoft said was a service to other hackers — offering them the capability to inject vulnerable computers, routers and other devices with other malware.

That includes ransomware, which Microsoft and US officials have warned could pose a risk to websites that display election information or to third-party software vendors that provide services to election officials.

August

10-12-20, 11:39 AM

What if a candidate gave a rally and nobody showed up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zYAQZhmRec&feature=emb_logo

Jimbuna

10-13-20, 04:44 AM

President Donald Trump has returned to the campaign trail less than two weeks after testing positive for coronavirus.

He told thousands of supporters, many not wearing masks, that he could give them "a big fat kiss", at a rally in the battleground state of Florida.

His rival, Joe Biden, speaking in Ohio, accused the president of "reckless behaviour" since his diagnosis.

The two presidential candidates are scrambling to secure votes with three weeks until the 3 November election.

Opinion polls suggests Mr Biden has a 10-point lead over Mr Trump nationally. However his lead in some key states is narrower - as is the case in Florida, where the Democrat is 3.7 points ahead, according to an average of polls collated by Real Clear Politics.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54516324

Gerald

10-14-20, 09:05 PM

https://graphics.reuters.com/USA-ELECTION/BATTLEGROUNDS/nmopawwakpa/index.html

UPDATED OCT. 14 2020

Gerald

10-17-20, 12:28 AM

https://polling.reuters.com/

skidman

10-17-20, 04:22 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/10/16/opinion/donald-trump-worst-president.html?referringSource=articleShare

Mr. Trump stands without any real rivals as the worst American president in modern history. In 2016, his bitter account of the nation’s ailments struck a chord with many voters. But the lesson of the last four years is that he cannot solve the nation’s pressing problems because he is the nation’s most pressing problem.

August

10-17-20, 07:55 AM

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/10/16/opinion/donald-trump-worst-president.html?referringSource=articleShare

Says you and the NYT, :roll: which are hardly unbiased sources. Personally as an American with an actual vote in the American presidential election I think he's doing a great job with many significant accomplishments and he is doing it in the face of a lot of political headwinds from the establishment and their media pit bulls.

Sean C

10-17-20, 05:19 PM

Yes, lately it seems there is no shortage of people telling us all what the "American voter" is thinking and feeling ... especially the Republican voter.

What I find funny is that few to none of these people are Republican voters. And many are not even American.

I suppose they are relying on the infallible polls. Just as well. I hear Hillary is going to win in a landslide. ;)

Jimbuna

10-20-20, 05:05 AM

Microphones to be muted in final US debate.

It is now just 14 days to the US election and today, in between the news and views from the campaign trail, we are focusing on "What the world wants from America"

We will have special global coverage, looking at how things have changed under Trump, and how people see the future.

President Trump and his Democratic rival Joe Biden will have their microphones muted for part of their final pre-election debate on Thursday.

The new measures have been brought in following a heated first debate marked by ill-tempered exchanges and frequent interruptions, predominantly by Trump.

The Republican president's campaign has accused organisers of helping the Democrat by leaving out foreign policy as a topic.

The Supreme Court has said the state of Pennsylvania can extend its postal vote deadline, allowing officials to count postal ballots received three days after polling day on 3 November.

On Monday, Trump inflamed a row with Dr Anthony Fauci, the top US infectious disease expert, calling him a "disaster"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/election-us-2020-54588859

I appreciate I'm obviously not an American citizen but the whole election process does strike me as being as bizarre as what we have here in the UK so hopefully it will be over soon (not if Trump loses and cries 'foul' though) and the world can move on.

mapuc

10-20-20, 07:34 AM

^It's up to the ordinary American and their elected politician to make changes in their voting system..as long they find it useable when their politicians get elected then it's fine by me.

Markus

Sean C

10-20-20, 06:38 PM

My wife and I just voted a couple hours ago. I'm done. Qué será, será.

Torvald Von Mansee

10-21-20, 01:48 PM

Looks like my original prediction of: "The Democrats will win, but the Republicans will steal it" is going to happen:

https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-state-courts-voting-pennsylvania-amy-coney-barrett-c13e057a7fd30c57fbf23c1e98a4be9c

For those keeping track, the Supreme Court will have five justices who were nominated by Presidents not elected democratically (small "d" intentional) by the American people, in a Senate where the "majority" of Senators represent a population of like 11 million LESS than the "minority"

legal != moral, Constitutional != moral

Out before a middle-aged man-child says: "Still your President," like we're in middle-school.

u crank

10-21-20, 02:15 PM

“Elections have consequences, and at the end of the day, I won.” – President Obama to House Republican Whip Eric Cantor, January 23, 2009.

Jimbuna

10-22-20, 05:58 AM

This whole business just keeps getting more mirky with each passing day :nope:

FBI says Iran and Russia have US voter information.

US national security officials say Iran was responsible for sending threatening emails to Democratic voters ahead of next month's presidential election.

The emails appeared to come from a far-right pro-Trump group and were meant to "incite unrest", National Intelligence Director John Ratcliffe said.

Mr Ratcliffe also said US officials found Iran and Russia had obtained "some voter registration information".

Both Iran and Russia denied the accusations of election interference.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54640405

skidman

10-22-20, 08:54 AM

Iran wants Trump to win.

Russia wants Trump to win.

China wants Trump to win.

Why do all those countries, that hate the US so much, want Trump for 4 more years, although he is a volatile choleric person?

Because he is a weak leader, a clueless amateur, a toy for the pros to play with.

u crank

10-22-20, 09:54 AM

White hat - Black hat.

mapuc

10-22-20, 10:15 AM

^^ And I who thought that China doesn't want Trump to win

Markus

u crank

10-22-20, 10:28 AM

^^ And I who thought that China doesn't want Trump to win

Markus

Yea it's a bit of twisted logic. The facts say otherwise.

Iran wants a Biden administration to resurrect the Iran nuclear deal. Trump cancelled it.

Trump stands up to China's unfair trade practices, Biden takes his son to China for money deals.

Trump sends anti tank missiles to Ukraine to use against the Russians.

Mr Quatro

10-22-20, 12:12 PM

Could this be the end of the democratic party the DNC
if they lose twice in a row? :hmmm:

Perhaps a new party like the ACLU could replace them :D

mapuc

10-22-20, 04:00 PM

In todays US-election in the news here in Denmark they discussed Obama's active part in Bidens campaign.

The Danish journalist in USA said

It's without precedent. A former President don't take part in an election as we saw Obama did last night..They keep distance as a respect for the democracy and the voters, it's the voters who have spoken.

Is this correct...I seem to remember last election where Clinton toke active part in helping his wife.

Markus

Jimbuna

10-23-20, 03:05 AM

I must admit to being quite underwhelmed by the final debate last night.

Highlights (no pun intended).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF-rnAUnO1k

Buddahaid

10-23-20, 11:47 AM

..Tump stands up to China's unfair trade practices, Biden takes his son to China for money deals....

Trump has plenty of business with China but let's look the other way......

u crank

10-23-20, 01:13 PM

Trump has plenty of business with China but let's look the other way......

Let's not look the other way. If Trump and his family have any shady business deals in China or anywhere else they should be exposed. But let's hold Joe Biden and his family to the exact same standard.

Catfish

10-23-20, 02:42 PM

They are not in the same league, when it comes to corruption and lying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qre8SluzMxE

u crank

10-23-20, 03:01 PM

They are not in the same league, when it comes to corruption and lying.

I respectfully disagree. What is the acceptable amount of corruption and lying that you would accept? Is there a standard to go by? How much money can I steal from you before you say it is unacceptable?

I am not excusing anything that Trump has done. I am simply asking that Biden be judged by the same standard. Do you think that is unfair? Do you think if that standard is applied to Joe Biden he will be completely innocent?

August

10-23-20, 03:20 PM

They are not in the same league, when it comes to corruption and lying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qre8SluzMxE

Well says you and his other political enemies, yet in spite of numerous repeated attempts they have never made any of their charges stick. :hmmm:

Catfish

10-24-20, 11:41 AM

Well says you and his other political enemies, yet in spite of numerous repeated attempts they have never made any of their charges stick. :hmmm:
I am not his political enemy, i think he does not care for politics. If you do not see what kind of man this is, no one will be able to convince you :)
It is like you want to convince someone of an evangelical TV star fraud, if you want to believe he is godsend nothing will change your mind.

Sean C

10-24-20, 09:00 PM

Platapus

10-25-20, 04:31 PM

It's without precedent. A former President don't take part in an election as we saw Obama did last night..They keep distance as a respect for the democracy and the voters, it's the voters who have spoken.

Not quite without precedent, but also not that usual. Please remember that there may be several reasons why a former president may choose not to endorse a candidate and why a candidate may not wish to be endorsed by a former president.

In 2008 George W. Bush endorsed and started campaigning for McCain, but Bush's declining approval numbers made the RNC and other parties decide that Bush's campaigning would not help McCain.

In 1999 Bill Clinton endorsed Al Gore and started campaigning for Gore. However, personal feelings that Gore had for Bill Clinton resulted in the campaigning from Bill Clinton stopping.

2016, It was not surprising that Bill Clinton endorsed and campaigned for Hillary Clinton, she is his wife after all.

In 1998 Reagan endorsed and campaigned for George HW Bush. However, the amount of campaigning that Reagan actually did was rather low.

Even as far back as 1928. Coolidge endorsed and campaigned for Hoover.

Even though they disliked each other Teddy Roosevelt endorsed Taft in 1908

Now one can try to make qualitative comparisons on how much former presidents put in to the endorsements and campaigns. But the fact that former presidents endorsing and helping in campaigns is not unprecedented.

Platapus

10-25-20, 04:33 PM

I must admit to being quite underwhelmed by the final debate last night.

Highlights (no pun intended).

For me, the only highlight of that debate is knowing that it was the last one!

mapuc

10-25-20, 04:46 PM

@ Platapus

Thank you so much for your input to my comments

It shows that our journalist, Danish or Swedish, who works in USA, may not have the knowledge one should believe they must have.

I an ordinary person can do nothing than believe what they tell me in the news

Markus

Onkel Neal

10-25-20, 07:12 PM

Trump is going to lose the election.

Platapus

10-26-20, 06:01 AM

@ Platapus

Thank you so much for your input to my comments

Markus

You are most welcome.

Jimbuna

10-26-20, 06:12 AM

Trump is going to lose the election.

I can't help thinking neither candidate is worthy.

Platapus

10-26-20, 06:14 AM

Trump is going to lose the election.

It might be a close election. Nothing is certain about elections.

There is, after all, only one polling that is important and that is the one that is on or after 3 Nov.

That's why I encourage everyone to ignore the pre-election polls and to vote as if this were the closest election in our history-- Every voter is important.

What we can't afford is to have any voter think "I don't need to vote, it's already a done deal". :nope:

In my precinct (as of a week ago), 31% of the voters in my precinct have already voted with an additional 11% having requested ballots but had not voted yet.

I can see that prior to 3 Nov, my precinct might be close to 50%. That would be awesome! The more people who vote early means the fewer number of people who will be showing up at my precinct. This will help us keep the voters safer through social distancing while keeping the lines shorter.

I hope that this election results in the largest voter turnout percentages in our history. That record will be hard to beat. As a ratio of Voting Age Population (VAP) to votes, the record was made back in 1876 with 81.8% voter turnout.

I hope we break that record in 2020!

mapuc

10-26-20, 09:44 AM

Have this in mind
Give me freedom or give me death.

The American loves their freedom

So what could Biden have done different from Trump ? Impose China-like restrictions ? Well if I know my American friends it would mean huge demonstration, maybe riots and perhaps first step towards a civil war.

It's a thought based on these video clip where Biden have spoken about Corona and where he's critical on Trump's enforcement of this corona pandemic.

yes be critics on how Trump have acted, but do not fall into the believe Mr. Biden would have done it a lot better.

(I posted it here, because there's a reason to why Biden is in the lead up to the election)

Edit
Don't want to post two comment in a row.

The Republican has majority in the Senate at least the next 2 years ahead, so what are Biden hoping to archive in his first 2 years.
From all the news I get here and by reading your comments I get the picture your political country is very divided..it's us and them...not we together.
End edit

Markus

Strykr

10-26-20, 09:16 PM

TRUMP wins.
Election night.

The Silent Majority votes Nov. 3 in person.

Sean C

10-27-20, 01:08 AM

From all the news I get here and by reading your comments I get the picture your political country is very divided..it's us and them...not we together.

And that is the heart of the problem right there.

Jimbuna

10-28-20, 07:44 AM

With less than a week to go, Biden leads Trump nationally by approximately 7 – 12 percentage points, according to various national polls – but the race is tighter in battleground states that could swing the outcome.

A record number of people have cast their ballots early. More than 70 million Americans have voted in person or by post, which is more than half the total turnout in the 2016 election.

Trump supporters were left out in the cold on Tuesday following a rally in Omaha, Nebraska. The problem was caused by a shortage of shuttle buses from the airfield where Trump spoke, back to where people had parked their cars.

Trump is set to hold two rallies on Wednesday in Arizona – a battleground state.

Biden will give a speech near his home in Delaware on his plans to combat coronavirus, while his running-mate Kamala Harris is also bound for Arizona.

mapuc

10-28-20, 12:25 PM

And that is the heart of the problem right there.

I know I will get different answers to my question because it's all about what standpoint you have.

It's definitely not Trump, nor is it Biden who have the ability, so
Which American politician do you think can unite USA again ?

Markus

skidman

10-28-20, 12:40 PM

LeBron James, even his beard would win the election easily.

Platapus

10-28-20, 01:46 PM

I know I will get different answers to my question because it's all about what standpoint you have.

It's definitely not Trump, nor is it Biden who have the ability, so
Which American politician do you think can unite USA again ?

Markus

We may never unite back. This extreme partisanship is a cancer that may not be curable.

I read a lot of other forums on the Internets Tubes. It is a form of mental illness, I confess. But no matter what the topic is, if someone does something even remotely wrong, the first question for many people seems to be "were they a democrat or republican?" as if that has any relevance to the story.

The political generalization is getting ridiculous.

One person doing something wrong represents the entire political party if it is the "other" party.

Bad things done by a person of "our" party is a one-off and does not represent the entire party. :doh:

There are people who really think like this. The only thing more illogical then generalization is selective generalization.

One of my biggest concerns is that there is a growing number of people who truly believe that a government official that is not of their party can not be entrusted to do a fair and honest job. That's disturbing.

I have been reading posts for a while where people are wanting all Election Officers to be required to declare their political affiliation.

The rationale? Because how can trust our Election Officers if we don't know what party they vote for? I guess our oath of office is not sufficient. I find this sort of talk personally insulting. I and my Election Officers take our oaths of office very seriously.

The partisanship in my country has been getting worse for the past few decades and I see no reason to expect it not continuing to get worse in the future. At some point, something will break.

I don't know what that point will be, nor do I know what will break. Hopefully I will be dead when that happens

I don't think any president can fix this. We can only hope that future presidents won't make things worse. As for the Congress? Fat chance of them fixing anything. They get elected because of the partisanship!

When trying to engage people in conversations about this, all I seem to hear is a childish "the other side started it" "well that side does it worse". Like recess at Elementary School. :nope:

It is depressing.

August

10-28-20, 02:08 PM

LeBron James, even his beard would win the election easily.

He's got about as much chance of uniting the nation as you do.

skidman

10-28-20, 05:08 PM

One of my biggest concerns is that there is a growing number of people who truly believe that a government official that is not of their party can not be entrusted to do a fair and honest job. That's disturbing.

I wonder if is this is a consequence of how we get and process information. In the internet age the flux of news has become too fast. Homo sapiens usually labels things and likes to put them in the right drawer. We tend to follow that pattern even if there is not enough time to do so.

The level of complexity and uncertainty is rising. We have no adequate answer. A politician saying: "I just don't know, but I'll double-check and get back to you later" would have less chances to get reelected than LeBron James' beard.

The less we can be sure we are right, the more we want to believe the other side is wrong. Be sure to use labels like socialist, fascist, unicorns (yeah) and so on to discredit the opposite half. And if you've found someone and something to believe in, stick to it for Heaven's sake.

Social cohesion is generated by narratives the majority can share. For example: The German society is built on 4 football world cups won, a spectacular economic rise after WW2 called the "Wirtschaftswunder" and cars (I am oversimplifying, OK?). From my (very limited) European point of view the US society is built on a promise called "the American dream" (that was crucified by Ronald Reagan, but nobody gives a damn). I think that the US society is breaking apart, because one half refuses to acknowledge the American dream for most people can not become truth anymore and the other half failing to formulate a new narrative.

Platapus

10-28-20, 06:15 PM

That is one of the more frustrating things about this. In these times, the citizens have access to more information about how their government works and what is happening than any period of history.

But too many people still prefer to get their information second hand through political commentators and such.

Some people really like dichotomous sound byte answers to things that are quite often a lot more complex.

In my more cynical moments as a Precinct Chief, I feel that a lot of the citizens would be very happy if there were no names on the ballot, just political parties. :yep:

In my state, local elections below a certain level only have candidates identified by their names and no political party. Almost every such election, I will have voters complain to me that they can't fill out their ballots if they don't know which political party links up with which candidate. Yikes!

Bilge_Rat

10-29-20, 09:51 AM

Jimbuna

10-29-20, 10:29 AM

well no the answer is lot simpler, most potential voters have very limited interest in actual news unless it affects them personally, so they form their opinion based on very limited info.

As Winston Churchill apparently once said "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.” :ping:

I'd never heard that before so looked it up.

“The best argument against Democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”
No attribution. Though he sometimes despaired of democracy’s slowness to act for its preservation, Churchill had a more positive attitude towards the average voter. https://winstonchurchill.org/publications/finest-hour/finest-hour-141/red-herrings-famous-quotes-churchill-never-said/

Platapus

10-29-20, 10:42 AM

I would like to up date that with "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with people on the Internet.” :up:

Bilge_Rat

10-29-20, 10:45 AM

that is why I said apparently. It is certainly something I could see him saying.

Jimbuna

10-29-20, 10:45 AM

I would like to up date that with "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with people on the Internet.” :up:

Yeah, certainly in political threads :)

Jimbuna

10-29-20, 10:46 AM

that is why I said apparently. It is certainly something I could see him saying.

Sorry, cross posts but yes I certainly agree.

Catfish

10-31-20, 04:44 AM

(Reuters) Exclusive: Russian hackers targeted California, Indiana Democratic parties

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-cyber-russia-exclusive/exclusive-russian-hackers-targeted-california-indiana-democratic-parties-idUSKBN27F1CP

Platapus

10-31-20, 04:35 PM

https://i.etsystatic.com/20265194/r/il/1f072c/2463780558/il_570xN.2463780558_d6ao.jpg

mapuc

10-31-20, 05:25 PM

Following is an off topic comment and hopefully written in a funny way

Year: 2025
Season: Early Summer.
Time: 17.50 Local time
Place: In some local tv studios in Washington.

Anchor in news at 6.

- Before the weather forecast our man at the White House as something special to tell us.
What makes it special Dave ?
Camera change from studio to the journalist Dave who is standing in front of the White House.
Dave:
As mentioned before President Mitchell had a meeting with Mr. Chairman, some other people earlier today and they didn't just discuss economy.

I quote The President
"I feel pity for this poor bastard, isn't there anything we can do ?"
One of the other participant who was at the meeting came up with an idea
why not expand behind the left wing. Build an annex where an exact copy of the Oval office would be placed inside.
The others approved this idea and now the President and Mr. Chairman will go on to realize this project. When this has been realized, this poor man can sit in this fake Oval office and make lots of decrees

Journalist says goodbye to his viewer.

Back to the studio
Anchor
Those of you who is wondering who this poor person is.
It's Mr. Trump a former President who was in charge between 2016 to 2020 and who the election to Mr. Biden.
Mr. Trump didn't accept the outcome of this election and have refused to leave the White House where he still is.
(I have tried to make it funny this off topic comment and it's based on some old statement from Mr. Trump..who said he wouldn't accept the outcome of the 2020 election)

Markus