So is this Silent Hunter 6 or what?

[Slyguy3129]

Dynamic single player campaign covering the whole war? Coordinating attacks with AI packs? All the things we've been asking for since SH4?

Or is the meat of the game playing with the guy who doesn't even know how to run the gramaphone 10/10 would ruin other's gameplay again?

Cause that quote, it's not encouraging me to buy the game. It's encouraging me to run, very far, from it.

[Onkel Neal]

I sent him a message thanking him for his amusing summary of Wolfpack and he quickly replied back to me. We played a game together Friday evening. He was a great guy, eager to learn how things work and to play a serious game. He also had a good sense of humor, so it was a lot of fun.

And we sank 22,000 tons.

He allowed me to suggest the approach, and set up the intercept. I explained what I was doing and why, and answered his questions. I gave him a rundown on getting a good TDC solution. I let him manage the attack on a small 3 ship convoy, unescorted. He sank two ships by torpedo, and one with a combination deck gun and torpedo. I like to think I helped get a new guy into subsims.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1203&pictureid=10312


http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1203&pictureid=10313

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1203&pictureid=10314

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1203&pictureid=10315

In my experience since the game released in March, I've played over 100 hours and 96~99% of the random players I've joined in a game get serious pretty quickly when the first "Contact!" is shouted out. Even the rare goofball respects a serious player enough to join the effort.

My philosophy has always been to give people the benefit of the doubt. I like to think of myself as an ambassador for serious subsim play. :shucks:

[Slyguy3129]

So, no. It isn't SH6 or anything we've been asking for since SH4. Ok.

[derstosstrupp]

So, no. It isn't SH6 or anything we've been asking for since SH4. Ok.

I see your concern - keep in mind this is early access so who knows what the future holds, but I’ll tell you this: the experience of getting together with serious players in this is second to none and truly trumps any immersion I’ve experienced in other subsims, and I’m a longtime subsimmer. Sure, other sims have things that this doesn’t (yet), but the opposite is true in many ways.

My point- join us! Neal and I have a regular group that meets up every week at least once, and I can guarantee you no funny business troll behavior or incompetence is in sight. Keep an eye on the Wolfpack League forum!

[Slyguy3129]

I see your concern - keep in mind this is early access so who knows what the future holds, but I’ll tell you this: the experience of getting together with serious players in this is second to none and truly trumps any immersion I’ve experienced in other subsims, and I’m a longtime subsimmer. Sure, other sims have things that this doesn’t (yet), but the opposite is true in many ways.

My point- join us! Neal and I have a regular group that meets up every week at least once, and I can guarantee you no funny business troll behavior or incompetence is in sight. Keep an eye on the Wolfpack League forum!

I'm good. I can't stand multiplayer games, they tend to attract the Fortnite crowds. This looks like that Star Trek VR crew game. And that game was an awful excuse for a Trek experience. This looks like the same, with a WW2 coat of paint.

I guess when even the owner of Subsim can't give us the game we've been asking for since SH4 came out, we are never going to see it.

Playing with other people, will never Trump my Silent Service 2-Silent Hunter 4 experience all by myself. It's just the newest fad in gaming. But atleast the arcade crowd is happy. God forbid the arcade, simplify everything, looking for ships is boring crowd be unhappy. I'm not looking for another JRPG lite, to "get people into sub"sims"", we have 30 years worth of sub games to do that. I want the game we've been begging for since we realized SH4 was never going to be it. And I'm a bit put out that everyone else seems to get what they want, but we don't even in regards to our own damn community. It seems like people don't want to make submarine simulations (apparently sub"sims" is now just the JRPG version of submarine simulations), just sub"sims".

[Onkel Neal]

I'm not the Fortnight crowd.
derstosstrupp is not the Fortnight crowd.
Captain Summers, Rush the Bus, Stormfly, Paladin, Caddy are not the Fortnight crowd.

Wolfpack is the game we've been asking for.

And there's nothing arcade about Wolfpack. You might need to try it before you judge it. In Silent Hunter you simply pressed P for periscope depth, or C for crash dive. Time compression. Saved games. God mode map. Let's talk about arcade. :hmmm:

[Slyguy3129]

I'm not the Fortnight crowd.
derstosstrupp is not the Fortnight crowd.
Captain Summers, Rush the Bus, Stormfly, Paladin, Caddy are not the Fortnight crowd.

Wolfpack is the game we've been asking for.

And there's nothing arcade about Wolfpack. You might need to try it before you judge it. In Silent Hunter you simply pressed P for periscope depth, or C for crash dive. Time compression. Saved games. God mode map. Let's talk about arcade. :hmmm:

Where is the single player campaign? So you want it to take 15 days to cross the Pacific in real time?

No sir, this is the game you wanted to make not the game we have been asking for. This looks the furthest thing from what I have asked for in a Submarine Simulation game. At no time have I ever asked for a game where I'm crewed up with real people. It's annoying enough when I make a mistake that goofs an attack run. But have fun with your JRPG multiplayer sub game. Just don't call it the game we've been begging for since SH4, because even you know it isn't.

[Onkel Neal]

What does JRPG stand for?

Assuming we both know better than to speak for others, I have always wanted a serious U-boat game where it was necessary for a small team (crew) to operate the boat with skill in order to achieve success. I know a lot of other players have wanted the same thing. Ok, so you never wanted it, and a lot of other players never wanted it. Nothing wrong with that.

[Slyguy3129]

Junior Role Playing Game. It's a streamlined, short, easy to get into version of RPGs (ie. It's for kids or people who don't know RPGs).

No, that description didn't get remotely close to covering what the simulation community has wanted.

1: Dynamic Campaign covering the whole war. We have to ask this specifically now thanks to Silent Hunter 5.

2: Port/Starboard controls on the engines.

3: Physics and realistic sinking mechanics.

Ect, ect.

That list of wants.

And showing me an example of someone with little simulation experience being able to do that much, shows me how shallow all the mechanics must be.

But I'm happy you finally have what you wanted. Must be nice!

[Pisces]

...

1: Dynamic Campaign covering the whole war. We have to ask this specifically now thanks to Silent Hunter 5.

2: Port/Starboard controls on the engines.

3: Physics and realistic sinking mechanics.

Ect, ect.

That list of wants.Sure, that is a clear description of what is missing in your eyes. Of which 2/3rds fit the bill. So what's the etcetera, etcetera? Oh wait, every one knows, right? No.


And showing me an example of someone with little simulation experience being able to do that much, shows me how shallow all the mechanics must be.

But I'm happy you finally have what you wanted. Must be nice!Yeez, what an entitled attitude you have. I doubt you'll ever find the game that pleases you. No development team can make a game that pleases everyone. Some like teamplay cooperation, some like uber-buttonpressing-switchology-leverflicking-simulation fidelity. Others want to order AI around to do their bidding. And then another group of players just like to do everything themselves to be in total control. You simply can't cater to all groups at once. And let's give the developers a break (a 2 man team). The game is working pretty descend flawless in it's current state, yet to be fleshed out. It's an early-access title. Or did nobody tell you that?

[Slyguy3129]

Sure, that is a clear description of what is missing in your eyes. Of which 2/3rds fit the bill. So what's the etcetera, etcetera? Oh wait, every one knows, right? No.

Yeez, what an entitled attitude you have. I doubt you'll ever find the game that pleases you. No development team can make a game that pleases everyone. Some like teamplay cooperation, some like uber-buttonpressing-switchology-leverflicking-simulation fidelity. Others want to order AI around to do their bidding. And then another group of players just like to do everything themselves to be in total control. You simply can't cater to all groups at once. And let's give the developers a break (a 2 man team). The game is working pretty descend flawless in it's current state, yet to be fleshed out. It's an early-access title. Or did nobody tell you that?


Ect, ect, is tertiary, not important. The big three named are deal breakers, hence named.

Oh God, this argument. Next you'll be telling me to "build my own game". Can't be critical of people's work apparently.

Ah yes, and we all know devs pander to the easiest to please lowest common denominator, people who like arcades.

Fill me in, does Early Access exempt them from scrutiny? If so, then I clearly don't understand Early Access.

And if you had been waiting as long as I have for a decent Submarine Simulation, you would be just as annoyed as me. I would have never believed the Submarine Simulation genre would be bitten by the idiot "Multiplayer" cancer in a million years.

[Pisces]

There is a difference between making critical comments and derogative comments. You seem to be doing the latter. In that case, yeah, proof that you can do it better.

[Slyguy3129]

There is a difference between making critical comments and derogative comments. You seem to be doing the latter. In that case, yeah, proof that you can do it better.

That argument never has held water, and never will.

Also: The word you are looking for is "prove". If you want to talk down to people, better make sure you don't typo when you do it!

Also: Derogatory was the other word.

There. Did that "proof" I can do better?

[blackswan40]

Delicate touch needed i fancy now then now then then now alrighty.

Hi Slyguy3129 On Subsim theres only one Onkel Neal (that has the patience of Angels).

Also there's at the last count fourteen Uncle Alberts that help members get their games and mods squared away also other kind souls that do the same.
for those guys and gals are the unsung heroes line chiefs of Onkel Neals Navy.

Has one downloaded the Wolfpack Manual if so has one had a indepth look at page nine no pun intended here old bean link below.

Re 2: Port/Starboard controls on the engines.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=5471


https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/dde2/7v7vk2ijyeekcmv4g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/view/7v7vk2ijyeekcmv/ScreenHunter_22.png/file)

If one had gathered the source data freely available in the Subsim Downloads then one would be in the know would'nt one.

PS Dont miss the bus!!!

[Pisces]

That argument never has held water, and never will.

Also: The word you are looking for is "prove". If you want to talk down to people, better make sure you don't typo when you do it!

Also: Derogatory was the other word.

There. Did that "proof" I can do better?
You win. When it comes to English. It's not my native language. And after a full night lack of sleep I guess I slipped up this time. I usually do better. I've also seen worse.

It is also interesting that this discussion has now turned to be about (my use of ) semantics. While apparently you did get the gist of it.

[Slyguy3129]

Delicate touch needed i fancy now then now then then now alrighty.

Hi Slyguy3129 On Subsim theres only one Onkel Neal (that has the patience of Angels).

Also there's at the last count fourteen Uncle Alberts that help members get their games and mods squared away also other kind souls that do the same.
for those guys and gals are the unsung heroes line chiefs of Onkel Neals Navy.

Has one downloaded the Wolfpack Manual if so has one had a indepth look at page nine no pun intended here old bean link below.

Re 2: Port/Starboard controls on the engines.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=5471


https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/dde2/7v7vk2ijyeekcmv4g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/view/7v7vk2ijyeekcmv/ScreenHunter_22.png/file)

If one had gathered the source data freely available in the Subsim Downloads then one would be in the know would'nt one.

PS Dont miss the bus!!!


Dynamic Single Player Campaign? One of the big three in my list.


You expect me to use one of my precious daily downloads in order to learn about a game?

[Slyguy3129]

should be: "as I" let's use correct grammar!:ping::ping::ping:


...especially when we presume to correct others. Otherwise there is the impression of a pompous, overbearing double-standard.:yep: :timeout: :arrgh!:



Yawn

If that's all you got in the defense of this game, no wonder it's in the shape it's in.

[Captain_AJ]

Happy are those who would say.. this is not my cup of tea. However, I would disagree that this is an Arcade game for novices. and the coop crews so far as I have seen and played with do take sub siming as passionately as you seem to mention that you are. I believe that a coop of crews that are hardcore simmers been meeting on a regular basis and are becoming team members, working a simulated u-boat and a common goal.. MESSY ARE THOSE GAMES THAT DO PLAY WITHOUT ANY HISTORICAL BACKROUND.-- We all have opinions, But no one is stupid enough , at least the ones I have been playing wolfpack with are not the sheepherders --- IT is a crew based on real-time, that depends on other crew members to resolve an outcome-- of hunting a convoy, using historical information, and applying it and sinking SHIPS -- EVEN THIS IS PRACTISED IN REAL LIFE -- Open your eyes and try to reduce your pride -- Glad that you have an option-- everyone does, remember to respect those who enjoy and have developed a simulation that can bring people working as a team , with the same interest,,

[Slyguy3129]

Happy are those who would say.. this is not my cup of tea. However, I would disagree that this is an Arcade game for novices. and the coop crews so far as I have seen and played with do take sub siming as passionately as you seem to mention that you are. I believe that a coop of crews that are hardcore simmers been meeting on a regular basis and are becoming team members, working a simulated u-boat and a common goal.. MESSY ARE THOSE GAMES THAT DO PLAY WITHOUT ANY HISTORICAL BACKROUND.-- We all have opinions, But no one is stupid enough , at least the ones I have been playing wolfpack with are not the sheepherders --- IT is a crew based on real-time, that depends on other crew members to resolve an outcome-- of hunting a convoy, using historical information, and applying it and sinking SHIPS -- EVEN THIS IS PRACTISED IN REAL LIFE -- Open your eyes and try to reduce your pride -- Glad that you have an option-- everyone does, remember to respect those who enjoy and have developed a simulation that can bring people working as a team , with the same interest,,

When you are awake when your half of the planet is asleep and asleep when it is awake, it tends to be rather difficult to play a multiplayer game. Nobody wants to spend $60 on a game, and only be able to play it when other people want too.

I seem to remember how upset people were with Silent Hunter 5 with it's "always online" DRM. This isn't even Copy Protection, you need internet and other people just to play the game. I don't understand how that suddenly became "ok".

Essentially it seems like all this game has to offer is "You get to play with people in your boat with you", which sounds as much fun to me as "Mr. Slyguy3129, you have stage 4 cancer. You have hours to live."

I keep noticing no-one addressing the Single Play Campaign covering the whole war. Is it because this game is intended to be mission based. Quick 15 minute games (E-Sport standard) where you spawn in and the convoy is right there. Since the game has no TC from the sounds of it, the convoys can't be too far off. No searching for Convoys. No patrolling. Just spawn in, shoot torpedoes repeat. If I wanted that, I could just load up Silent Service 1 on the Nintendo Entertainment System. Which I do still play.

[abaileyatd]

Dude. Seriously? Wolfpack is a game designed specifically for multi-player crews to cooperatively drive a German type 7 Uboat in a more detailed and accurate fashion than ever.

Silent Hunter et al are games designed to be played by yourself in single player with a broader control scheme for the boat itself.

They are two different games, two different philosophies, and two different goals that happen to be in the same setting.

IF YOU DON'T WANT A MULTIPLAYER GAME DON'T PLAY IT! We aren't trying to convince you to LOVE Wolfpack! Wolfpack is a multiplayer game! By design! Game developers are not bound to create the exact game you want, they make the game that either THEY WANT or they think other people want. And you know what? Obviously this game isn't for everyone, but for those who it was designed for IT IS PERFECT.

It's like you are purposefully being dense about this.

PS. Re-reading your post above I am seriously thinking you have literally not looked into this game any further than "Its multiplayer, UGH". It is NOT multiplayer Silent Hunter, which wouldn't make any sense. In Wolfpack you TURN WHEELS and SWING LEVERS, not just hit "P". It takes multiple people to do this with speed and accuracy, just as in real life. And if you had looked into any games, you'd see this game is DEFINITELY NOT 15 minute arcade games. Seems like 2 hours is minimum for most serious games, and I've been in ones that lasted more than twice that. You do not start in visual range of the convoy, but need to use your hydrophones to locate them (most accurate and detailed hydrophones I've ever seen in a subsim BY THE WAY). Why am I explaining this to you? All of this is obvious to even a casual observer of the game. I believe your mind is made up and you are not interested in doing anything but blowing off your steam and letting everyone know "how mad you are"

[Slyguy3129]

Dude. Seriously? Wolfpack is a game designed specifically for multi-player crews to cooperatively drive a German type 7 Uboat in a more detailed and accurate fashion than ever.

Silent Hunter et al are games designed to be played by yourself in single player with a broader control scheme for the boat itself.

They are two different games, two different philosophies, and two different goals that happen to be in the same setting.

IF YOU DON'T WANT A MULTIPLAYER GAME DON'T PLAY IT! We aren't trying to convince you to LOVE Wolfpack! Wolfpack is a multiplayer game! By design! Game developers are not bound to create the exact game you want, they make the game that either THEY WANT or they think other people want. And you know what? Obviously this game isn't for everyone, but for those who it was designed for IT IS PERFECT.

It's like you are purposefully being dense about this.

PS. Re-reading your post above I am seriously thinking you have literally not looked into this game any further than "Its multiplayer, UGH". It is NOT multiplayer Silent Hunter, which wouldn't make any sense. In Wolfpack you TURN WHEELS and SWING LEVERS, not just hit "P". It takes multiple people to do this with speed and accuracy, just as in real life. And if you had looked into any games, you'd see this game is DEFINITELY NOT 15 minute arcade games. Seems like 2 hours is minimum for most serious games, and I've been in ones that lasted more than twice that. You do not start in visual range of the convoy, but need to use your hydrophones to locate them (most accurate and detailed hydrophones I've ever seen in a subsim BY THE WAY). Why am I explaining this to you? All of this is obvious to even a casual observer of the game. I believe your mind is made up and you are not interested in doing anything but blowing off your steam and letting everyone know "how mad you are"


Isn't that the point of forums? To let the people who are making the game know whether you are happy with their design decisions or not? Please correct me if I have misunderstood the entire point.



Again, I'm so very thrilled that some of you out there are getting the exact game you have always wanted. And again, that must be a wonderful, warm fuzzy feeling to get. Must be nice!



By acting like I don't have any right to be upset and express my severe displeasure means you don't want me to have the game that I eventually would very much like to have while you get to piddle around in the game you've always wanted. It's pretty easy to be "pig in slop" happy when you have the game you want. It's not easy to be "pig in slop" happy when it seems like every single day Submarine Simulations get more and more rare, and the chances of you ever getting the game you've dreamed of for 30 years gets more and more extinct.
__________________________________________________ ______________




But anyways, I just dropped in to be fair. Since I was so very hyper critical of the other, I notice a new advertisement banner on the top of the page. It does a far, far better job at selling the product they are making. In fact, just reading it, almost got me excited for it.


I won't be buying it, there won't be any way for me to play it. I can only hope that because this game gets made, maybe, if I beg, and plead, and cry, next time, I can get the game I wanted.










































But knowing my universal luck, right before that game goes gold, I'll die.

[Giesemaschine]

Yeesh, tough crowd but I understand the frustration.


My DREAM subsim would be a modern-remake of Aces of the Deep - what a SP campaign that had! However, to lump Wolfpack in with the fortnite/arcade/MMO bullcrap crowd is not fair to the game.


I've cut my teeth on Aces of the Deep, Jane's 688i, all of the Silent Hunters (especially 1 and 3 with the GWX mod), Shells of Fury, etc. In 20+ years of subsimming I've never once had to walk up to the valves, flood both the forward and aft #2/4 main ballast tanks, blow the negative tank while passing periscope depth and then trim for dive.

I have to do that in Wolfpack. What is arcade about that procedure exactly? :doh: More arcade than pressing "P" in SH to submerge to periscope depth? "C" for crash dive?

I can plan, coordinate and pull off an attack with manual TDC and plotting tools in Wolfpack just how I do with SH3 - and Wolfpack doesn't even have an "auto lock" for targets that will compute the solution for you like SH3 has. Everything in this game is manually done, and if you don't know what you're doing, you'll be sinking nothing.

Does Wolfpack have the dynamic SP campaign from Aces of the Deep I crave? No. And I so so wish it did. But for now what I am playing is certainly not an arcade, but an atmospheric, technically-detailed and FUN subsim.

If it wasn't a sim, It would have been wiped off my hard drive by now. Trust me.


P.S. did I mention I hate fortnite?

[Slyguy3129]

Yeesh, tough crowd but I understand the frustration.


My DREAM subsim would be a modern-remake of Aces of the Deep - what a SP campaign that had! However, to lump Wolfpack in with the fortnite/arcade/MMO bullcrap crowd is not fair to the game.


I've cut my teeth on Aces of the Deep, Jane's 688i, all of the Silent Hunters (especially 1 and 3 with the GWX mod), Shells of Fury, etc. In 20+ years of subsimming I've never once had to walk up to the valves, flood both the forward and aft #2/4 main ballast tanks, blow the negative tank while passing periscope depth and then trim for dive.

I have to do that in Wolfpack. What is arcade about that procedure exactly? :doh: More arcade than pressing "P" in SH to submerge to periscope depth? "C" for crash dive?

I can plan, coordinate and pull off an attack with manual TDC and plotting tools in Wolfpack just how I do with SH3 - and Wolfpack doesn't even have an "auto lock" for targets that will compute the solution for you like SH3 has. Everything in this game is manually done, and if you don't know what you're doing, you'll be sinking nothing.

Does Wolfpack have the dynamic SP campaign from Aces of the Deep I crave? No. And I so so wish it did. But for now what I am playing is certainly not an arcade, but an atmospheric, technically-detailed and FUN subsim.

If it wasn't a sim, It would have been wiped off my hard drive by now. Trust me.


P.S. did I mention I hate fortnite?

By Fortnite/arcade/MMO I mean it is designed in the same exact way. An instance built by the game as a preset scenario to drop people into. It can only have so many variations. No dropping in a port and finding the convoy. Designed to not be too time consuming. No surprises.

God I loved 688i. I don't know what was more fun, playing the game, or making your Commander lose his mind. Man I miss that game.

I'd gladly give all that up, for a single player campaign. I guess the whole "walking around thing" has gotten old hat to me since 1991 and Doom. I wasn't impressed with it in SH5 (that I was smart enough not to get ripped off by. I still shudder when I read the SH5 forum. We lost 4 entire years of the war, just to walk. Yay?) and it doesn't impress me here. I'm still a bit lost as to why it's such a big deal. But graphics have never been something to easily impress me.

You can't do that in SH4, because you are not some lowly Petty Officer, you are the Captain. It's not the Captain's job to do everything on the boat. It's why submarines have crews.

I'm perfectly fine with Pressing "P" to get stuff done, and have a Single Player Campaign, multiple different boats, actually hunting, not needing to play online, being able to role play, following my crew's career, being able to upgrade my boat, getting more missions than "go here, sink stuff, don't go boom",surprise aircraft attack, Time Compression (Because if I wanted, I could sail around the globe), sinking more tonnage than Japan could have built in 3 WW2s(ok maybe not that one lol), but I think you catch my drift.

I guess what I'm saying is I see what all was sacrificed, so that we could "walk", and turn knobs, and play with squeakers, and I'm just not impressed. I don't see how people can be. It looks like a 30 year giant step backwards.

Oh I know. If I have one more tennybopper say to me "You play video games? So you play fortnite?!?!" you will be seeing me on the news.

[abaileyatd]

Guy, the game you describe has been made a million times... A game like Wolfpack has never existed before. Every single thing you describe is available right now in existing games. If you want a single player campaign with upgradable boats and time compression... why not Sh3, SH4, or Sh5 or whatever other subsim game? And if you're not willing to throw mods on these then you aren't willing to get what you want.

It is patently ridiculous to compare Wolfpack to Fortnite or MMO games. Wolfpack is an insanely detailed hardcore simulation of a type VII uboat that is a passion project developed by a tiny independent developer. It just happens to not have the scope and specific features YOU want. It isn't multiplayer to share achievements on facebook, nor do you have to pay microtransactions for custom Kreigsmarine hats or upgraded torpedoes... It is only multiplayer because one person cannot effectively control an entire boat by themselves when the controls are broken down to such narrow and realistic methods.

Honestly, if you aren't impressed by updated graphics, you don't want more in depth boat controls than pressing "p", and you don't care to walk around the boat... What would a Silent Hunter 6 possibly offer you that isn't already out there?

[Slyguy3129]

Guy, the game you describe has been made a million times... A game like Wolfpack has never existed before. Every single thing you describe is available right now in existing games. If you want a single player campaign with upgradable boats and time compression... why not Sh3, SH4, or Sh5 or whatever other subsim game? And if you're not willing to throw mods on these then you aren't willing to get what you want.

It is patently ridiculous to compare Wolfpack to Fortnite or MMO games. Wolfpack is an insanely detailed hardcore simulation of a type VII uboat that is a passion project developed by a tiny independent developer. It just happens to not have the scope and specific features YOU want. It isn't multiplayer to share achievements on facebook, nor do you have to pay microtransactions for custom Kreigsmarine hats or upgraded torpedoes... It is only multiplayer because one person cannot effectively control an entire boat by themselves when the controls are broken down to such narrow and realistic methods.

Honestly, if you aren't impressed by updated graphics, you don't want more in depth boat controls than pressing "p", and you don't care to walk around the boat... What would a Silent Hunter 6 possibly offer you that isn't already out there?


Yes it has. It's called Star Trek VR Crew or whatever. This is the samething, with a WW2 coat of paint. And without the VR (which I'm hoping is just a fad). I'm not saying these guys stole the idea. But this game definitely exist.

Silent Hunter 3 is old and isn't played much anymore. SH4 is a buggy joke of a mess. Silent Hunter 5 was a rip off I was smart enough not to get had by.

The modding community here has suddenly become very "get off my lawn" and doesn't seem to want to help the actual community. In their defense I remember when their work was getting stolen and placed into paid DLCs.

I've got plenty of mods, and made a good number of my own for myself. You can't fix the foundation of a house by slapping a fresh coat of paint on it.

What could Silent Hunter 6 do that 3-5 haven't? Actually work. Not be left with tons of bugs we have no way of fixing for lack of Developer Tools, and Copyright Laws. It could be a game where you can play a fleet boat or a uboat. With DLCs to add the RN, and IJN subs, and others people would love to see.

And that's just off the top of my head mate.

And again this boils down to: You have the game you want, but you don't want me to have the game I want.

[abaileyatd]

No it boils down to you are throwing a temper tantrum. Your explanations and arguments are ridiculous. So be it!

[U56]

You have the game you want, but you don't want me to have the game I want.

Stop throwing your toys out of the cot, and do a bit of growing up. Most of us would LUV you to have the game you want, but having temper tantrums because small indie developers don't give you exactly the game you want is not going to get you anywhere.

Unless a major games manufacturer gets interested in the sub sim genre, it is unlikely we will see another game like SH6. That does not make me happy, but them's the facts!!

[Lanzfeld]

I actually kind of agree with SlyGuy3129.

I’ve been around here as long as anyone. Longer mostly......... and he’s just giving his opinion. He’s a bit frustrated and I understand. I’ve suffered through all the multiple hyped up releases that we went through and it’s just kind of taught me to lower my expectations.

I will be fair. I tried Wolfpack at the beginning and it seems promising if multiplayer is your thing. But I honestly believe the hard-core sub summers will eventually grow very tired of the multiplayer aspect. It’s the hot, new thing right now but eventually it’ll die out, in my prediction, quicker than most sub games.

What I think he wants, and I know that I want, is a game as detailed as wolfpack with the systems of a submarine, modeled in detail, that we can we play completely single player. Something where the artificial intelligence will work the systems with a competence level equal to their experience and if we needed to take over manually we could do so. I wanted that far longer than I can remember.

I’m not going to bash the Wolfpack developers and I wish them the best. I just wish we could get this kind of detail in a single player game. I really dislike multiplayer

[Elphaba]

Isn't that the point of forums? To let the people who are making the game know whether you are happy with their design decisions or not? Please correct me if I have misunderstood the entire point.

I won't be buying it, there won't be any way for me to play it. I can only hope that because this game gets made, maybe, if I beg, and plead, and cry, next time, I can get the game I wanted.

But knowing my universal luck, right before that game goes gold, I'll die.

Do you have any ability to conceive of how entitled you sound?

You have completely missed the point, but don't worry, I'll correct you.

This was ALWAYS designed, pitched and developed as a multiplayer real time session based game.

If you don't like that. Fine.

You do NOT however get to rant, whine and moan about it.

This is simply a case of a product that is not for you, of which I'm sure that are already a billion other products made around the world, that are not specifically designed for and will not suit you.

The fact that the devs have had their arms twisted to add AI BOTS, especially in preference to other much needed content, which will probably mean it will become a single player friendly game, means some people have moaned loudly enough... but that's not good enough for you is it? You don't want this game at all... you want a totally different game - one that has not ever been built or designed, or pitched. One that has to be made for you otherwise everything else that gets released is going to get an angry little tantrum about it, right?

You've said you create mods. Well great. Go make the game you want. Can't do that or won't? Ok, fine, use some of your money and pay some devs to do it for you.

You have options.

You only have to look at the depth this game has (see recent Nav plotting turns underwater video on YouTube) - far more than SH3,4 or 5 - to see it's potential. Hell, the Navigator alone has a huge amount to do and that's before the rest of the game is built!

You can run around this ship like an idiot trying to do all the roles yourself, but that's never been how a real sub operates nor is it that much fun. Sure, today alone I've had several online games with idiots, trolls and small men swinging their tiny d**ks around like they owned the place, but for all those, there are people who want to learn and excel at each station, who take their time and learn something more than some silly game demanding that you click here or press this key to crash dive.

Do you have any idea the coordination and wondrous thing of beauty it is when a team of 3 or 4 crash dive a sub properly under control? No, you don't, because you want to press C instead.

And that's fine.

You complain about 1/2 the planet being asleep when you're awake. You do realise one of the team behind this game lives in your time zone and there are weekly games IN YOUR TIMEZONE don't you? Or are you just whining without any facts?

But regardless, this game isn't for you and as such you should have zero opinion on it. In fact I'd go as far as to say that unless it directly impacts your life, then it's utterly irrelevant what you think, what you want. You're not the devs. It's not your vision. It's not a game for you.

Go look at Uboat. Or build your own.

There's nothing for you to see here, nor for you to comment on. I don't go on forums for Doom or Fortnite and whine that they aren't a true Mil Sim!

This year, we have 2 very different brand new sub games. And you're still unhappy? Meh.

Remember, opinions, especially pointless, useless ones are like rectums. Everyone's got one, and usually only rubbish comes out of it.

[abaileyatd]

Noone is saying you cannot personally be disappointed with Wolfpack, but it is ridiculous to be disappointed because it is not a game that it is not supposed to be. Wolfpack is NOT silent hunter 6. It's not SUPPOSED to be Silent Hunter 6. Asking why it doesn't have single player or a dynamic campaign is like asking why Silent Hunter doesn't have a Grand Strategy mode.

Lanz, I understand what you are saying about a more detailed Wolfpack style control in single player with AI to take over (which I believe is or was a goal of Wolfpack!), but I am personally skeptical it would work as well as you think. I mean, I guess my point is, when transiting for 34 hours on the surface, detailed ballast controls aren't going to factor much. It's only during combat engagements that this level of detail would become practical, and Wolfpack basically just cuts out the continuity of a campaign and puts you only far enough out of engagement that it is interesting.

Lanz, if you re-read all of dudes posts, he has only ever asked for things that are already available with the various mega mods for all the silent hunters, and he repeatedly devalued and put down the new aspects of Wolfpack ("oh you just walk around? I'm happy to just press P!") And then compared it to MMO's and Fortnite (yes seriously), lamented "casual" games like Wolfpack being made and then just complained that it was made at all instead of whatever he has in his head (which I think is just complaints).

It is OK to criticize Wolfpack. It is NOT my favorite game. I didn't follow it's development closely (or at all). I didn't even realize I "wanted" it until it was days from being released. And I'm not really sure I necessarily like it "better" than say, SH5 with TWOS... it may not replace that, but it is different, and provides an alternative experience that is unique and satisfying in a way no game has before provided. The fact that this guy basically believes everyone in the world felt the same way and wanted this game so bad that we specifically and maliciously created it to spite him, at the same time pulling resources away from development of Silent Hunter 6... is... delusional and ridiculous.

We get it, dude wants SH6. But let's see how this sounds: I'll go to the Call of Duty forums and be like "Is this game Silent Hunter 6?" And when they say, no, I'll throw a tantrum and say "I hope you all are happy, YOU GOT THE GAME YOU WANTED! We've had a million First person shooters, if I wanted that I'd play DOOM! And meanwhile these developers flipped me the bird and did not develop Silent Hunter 6!"

...?

[ht-57]

I just wish we could get this kind of detail in a single player game. I really dislike multiplayer


I also agree with this statement, Not that I may not give it a go. I would like to point out that AI is The next item on the devs to do list. I would also like to say that both run8 and steel beasts prope started as "niche" "multi player" primarily as well. Both have become awesome simulators in their genere for sp.
why I draw that parallel is just like WP, they are both small dev teams that have a certain vision for their product. but do listen to their respective communities. Will they please everyone all the time?, of coarse not.
@this point there is gr8 potential for WP as you have and devs that are listening to the community for input.

[dcb]

I agree with Sly's general points of view about the game. Wolfpack is not my cup of tea either. I'm not into multiplayer subsimming and I like to play my games when I want, not when others want to join. I, too, would have preferred an updated version of SH3, with a diversified full-war campaign, working AI subs, wolfpacks, bug-free and everything else we old subsimmers asked for.



I also agree that the subsim community has changed alot since the Silent Hunter era, when multiplayer was a big NO-NO here. Just remember the outcry when Ubisoft pushed its ill-fated multiplayer installment of SH.


BUT


I respect Wolfpack's designers' choice (even though it is not for me). It's their game, they gathered the money for it, so it's up to them to develop whatever game they want. If they don't give me the game I want, so be it. There's always other things to play, such as the upcoming UBOAT, due for release tomorrow, which I hope will become the game I want, in time.


If there's people enjoying Wolfpack, I wish them to have great fun, will never blame them or the devs for their choice and hope they can expand their community. I'm aware that multiplayer subsimming is a niche within a niche, with preciously few people enjoying it, and developing a game along this line is a big gamble they took. There hardly are people willing to pay for a sub game at all, but finding those interested by a multiplayer co-op subsim seems to me like nearly impossible, especially in the long run.



Bottom line, Sly, let them enjoy the game they like and - whenever you feel like bashing Wolfpack - repeat yourself that its devs are not bound to give you or me or anyone else what we want. It's their toy, they funded it with their money, let them have it as they like.


Good luck Wolfpack :Kaleun_Cheers:

[Justaguyinnc]

Vent all ya wish SlyGuy.. would get boring if we all sang as a Choir.. it is "normal" behavior to vent in forums as is normal to bash a vent'er.. stuff.. it happens..



I can agree with some of Slyguy frustrations.. would be great to have a SH6.. but I am not going to call out a game that never said it was going to be SH6 and stomp my feet.


My personal Online Submarine game would be a few (Human)Destroyers escorting a convoy of freighters with a few (human)Wolfpack attacking us.. we all want something.. we NEVER get the whole deal.. anyways.. Wolfpack never said it was going to be my vision so I am good with that.



You havn't tried WolfPack Slyguy? personally, I think that is a mistake if you like Sub games.. but anyways.. I only have about 25 hours in Wolfpack so far and all of them have been SOLO.. I am grateful the DEV team is working on Single player additions to control the boats but I can almost get by already.. it really is needed except for the VERY niche team that can work together. I am not much on Sub Multiplayer, especially when you watch Twitch and see how it usually turns out in WolfPack. I don't play well with others when I want the immersion of the game but I don't want to "search out" good teams that I may not live up too either. I am not against making new friends..I just don't want to wait and work around other people schedules.



And wow, Wolfpack is immersive to "me".. LOVE the sounds... splash, although I would like a larger gramophone folder for my own use on music.. no problem..I just run another program and the destroyers don't hear it.. ;-) it's what I always done.. accept what we got for now and improvise. Will enjoy the PLANES, ship radio and Echo coming in the "near future" please note I expect "near future".. or I might stomp my feet too lol.. jus'sayin



I never tried this.. but I surely hope I can solo in Wolfpack if the internet goes down? having to connect to a server.. well, That would be very frustrating and make me stomp my feet here too.. I remember some old games that went offline and you couldn't play them after.. might been awhile, but it does happen.. hmm, maybe I should try it.. jus'sayin.


No Campaign? I do like a story, only reason I still buy titles like COD ( bad example?) but don't play the Multiplayer much.. Well, time compression to areas in SH Series really wasn't my thing to find the random freighter. I like the simple "MISSION Base" Wolfpack offers. I can pretend I time compressed to find the convoy.. it is all I did in SH series really.. of course to see an ocean get more "wild" at times and a coastline now and then sure would be nice.. "hint"...



Although SH5 was buggy.. to walk around a whole Submarine was amazing to "me" and I wish WolfPack would open the other compartments (or at least the toilet we all see clipping behind the Hydrophone.. its already there and assume the other compartments are too..for the most part)


I am just happy there are two fairly good starts to NEW Submarine games within a month apart from each other and I am getting BOTH.. half way there.



:Kaleun_Cheers:

[rmax]

My personal Online Submarine game would be a few (Human)Destroyers escorting a convoy of freighters with a few (human)Wolfpack attacking us.. we all want something.. we NEVER get the whole deal.. anyways.. Wolfpack never said it was going to be my vision so I am good with that.


Sold! I'll take two.

Interesting thread. I understand Sly's POV, just that he took the BdU order a little to heart: Be More Aggressive x

[Ragnarokkr]

maybe the devs will turn out to be merciful gods and in the hush hush fashion add in destroyers as playable models with all the bells and whistles that come with pvp ww2 naval combat


my god im getting all too excited:k_confused:

[Justaguyinnc]

maybe the devs will turn out to be merciful gods and in the hush hush fashion add in destroyers as playable models with all the bells and whistles that come with pvp ww2 naval combat



YEAR 2 Anniversary DLC for 34.99... whoops..there it is.. :Kaleun_Cheers:

[BlockadeRunner]

Wolfpack is perfect for my friends and I. We are real into the flight sims (IL2, DCS, BMS, etc.) and this works perfectly! A lot of my friends have short attention spans, so to actually sit down and learn all the full realism aspects by themselves is a tall order. But to multicrew, learn with friends as you play is in my opinion the best part. It's certainly broadening the Subsim community with more casual players.

Now you may say that's a bad thing, but if it's generating more revenue and more interest, we're going to get more Uboat type games. I say there's nothing wrong with more simulator games, even if they arent quite everyone's preferred sim. For example, apparently there's an Early Access game called Re-entry, and its an Apollo/Mercury/Gemini simulator. I picked it up on sale and trying to learn it, but what would make it better is if it was multicrew so I can play with my friend who's an astronomy major. Supposedly it is supposed to get multiplayer soon too, so keep an eye on that one!

[jdski]

^ The History Guy did an episode on this story I watched not to long ago.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfr0nsh0Ghc

[Outeniqua]

Some inane tripe, from someone that acts exactly like a Fortnite player.

What an utter pillock. Christ man, you don't even know what JRPG is! :har:

[Sniderling]

Slyguy... wow what a nasty person you are. Seriously. I registered just so I could post this comment...

[Aktungbby]

Sniderling!:Kaleun_Salute:

[Fidd]

I must firstly admit that I have not read all of this extensive thread, but it seems to me that some degree of multiplayer is most necessary, especially for the long-term health of the game.

I think it's necessary, however, to break down the multiplayer element into three areas (looking ahead slightly too):

multi-player within a U-boat
multi-player within up to 4 U-boats
multi-player within 1 or more escorts

Of these, in my estimation, and as a generalisation, the 1st and 3rd do, are, or are likely, to work well. The 2nd is a problem area, as all too often it just means that a minute before your torpedoes strike, someone else alerts the convoy and maybe an hour and half's effort on your part is wasted. Although the wolfpack attack is well documented, I have my doubts that it was so concentrated an attack that these near simultaneous attacks were common at all.

I think that there's no question that the multiplayer within a particular boat works well, especially when you get an experienced crew together, plus maybe one new-guy. Likewise, provided that the right measures are put in place for crewing escorts, such as the ability to transfer between escorts (with a cool-down period between such transfers), then this will be very good for gameplay for several reasons:

Firstly it will greatly improve the otherwise rather lacklustre AI performance of escorts, it'll greatly extend the periods when a particular U-boat is hunted, and also the periods under actual attack. Secondly it creates a very personal battle of wits between the U-boat commander and the escort captain and convoy-commander - and it'll feel personal too, with the intelligence behind and persistence of, a nerve-wracking DC attack being directed by an opposing player rather than the AI. Thirdly, it'll no longer be possible for a commander to be able to look at an escort and know that he's out of visual range at a particular range, or indeed that the escort he's looking at is AI manned or human manned. If the former, then the range/observation limits, as now, would apply, but he can't know that he's not been spotted....

In summation, some aspects of multi-player work well, other's less so. It's my estimation that multi-boat crewing should only be possible with a variable spawn-distance from the convoy and well out of visual range. YMMV. In other areas swapping AI for human multiplayer would greatly improve the game, again YMMV.

[abaileyatd]

Look, frankly I'm just upset that this isn't Half Life 3. So is this Half Life 3 or what? Why did they make Wolfpack when they could've made Half Life 3 which I'd rather play?

Ok I kid... I would MUCH rather play Wolfpack than Half Life 3!

:up:

[stellaferox]

Guys,

I am a sub-fanatic and especially the U-Boat type VIIc. I love this game and where it is going. Also I notice some stutter in the development with minor updates on the radiotraffic and missing some, more challenging, missions for those who played the encounters endlessly, like I did.
Of course I have a list with tons of suggestions as a diehard subplayer from the eighties on. I wont complain, but a little bit more focus on developing more challenging missions to choose from (Scapa Flow???) would be a good thing to get back on course of keeping the subscribers and backers happy.

[Fidd]

Guys,

I am a sub-fanatic and especially the U-Boat type VIIc. I love this game and where it is going. Also I notice some stutter in the development with minor updates on the radiotraffic and missing some, more challenging, missions for those who played the encounters endlessly, like I did.
Of course I have a list with tons of suggestions as a diehard subplayer from the eighties on. I wont complain, but a little bit more focus on developing more challenging missions to choose from (Scapa Flow???) would be a good thing to get back on course of keeping the subscribers and backers happy.

The single biggest change that would deliver more challenging missions is playable escorts, and a set of victory-conditions whereby both sides have an equal chance of winning. Playable escorts will result in much longer Asdic searches and DC attacks, and combine with a more nuanced damage-model on the U-boat, a much more varied game experience for the U-boat crews as they have to overcome all manner of damage problems.

Ideally tonnage sunk should be set against number of U-boats involved/time, so that the rate of tonnage sunk is the gauge of victory, rather than the total tonnage. Similarly, having U-boats sunk would materially affect the chance of a U-boat victory.

Playable escorts will allow the currently rather dumb AI to be much more cunning, whilst allowing the dumb AI to move un-manned escorts back to their original position in the convoy, once escort players crew a different boat. This will make the search aspect of the game more interesting for the escort players, but also introduce uncertainty into the minds of U-boat captains as to whether an escort they are observing is human or AI controlled, and therefore some additional uncertainty as to it's likely future courses and behaviour.