Physical Raobf and Attack Disk now available, also usable for Wolfpack

[Lancezh]

After a long iteration and some problems that needed solving i'm finally ready with ma Raobf that you can use for Wolfpack as well. You've probably already seen my thread in the general forum and i apologize for the spam, i'm not sure how to delete threads, either way, here's

The RaobF Disk:
https://i.etsystatic.com/16385249/r/il/57748d/1891294927/il_570xN.1891294927_gg24.jpg

The Attack Disk:
https://i.etsystatic.com/16385249/r/il/3a97d2/1828437116/il_570xN.1828437116_idfp.jpg

You can look at them in detail here
https://www.etsy.com/shop/wellplayedch

I will also make a tutorial for them and provide some files for those who want to print those fantastic tools for themselves out of paper with these graphics. All in due time though, i hope to get it done in the next couple days. :Kaleun_Salute:

[rolandslaw]

Just received the very nice Attack Wheel... Great job.

i am going to add backing to allow me to pick it up without the three wheels coming out of position. That is what I did in mine... that I can not find:<)

In mine... since the three rings were all of thick gloss white paper. or thicker material ........ the paper was cut around the outer edge of each ring... the paper within the ring was not cut away. Then All I did was place the rings in correct position on top of each other... and pin through center.... each ring was able to be moved independent of the others while being held upright..... the markings on the rings are printed on the high gloss thick paper....

In your design... the above needs to be modified to .... tomorrow I am going over the office supply and c if I can find the thick backing I will need....

Roland / CyStryker

[Elphaba]

Are you going to combine both onto one 'disc' that can be picked up and held whilst being used? i.e. RAOBF on one side, AD on the other?

[tofoftofof]

Do please share the files you created! Particularly for the RAOBF, since noone else has made a printable / laserable one.

Shipping from Switzerland seems silly when there's a laser cutter in a fablab just down the street from me.

[rolandslaw]

That is well beyond my capacity to create a two sided disk out of thick paper stock. I am going over to a print shop Friday morning with color pdfs of the Whizs wheel and the attack disk.... still looking for my printouts of the FAOBF..... if I find it I will post it...
CyStryker

[blackswan40]

RaobF Disc Arrived this Morning a bit of a different Design than the Original one posted on the forum but excellent Quality very happy

Gees Mom where do the batteries go just kidding

any tutorials would be appreciated on the RaobF Disc I like the idea of using the same/similar Attack Discs real Submariners used in WWII

http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/a1f8/3qmq1f91dy3r7147g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/view/?3qmq1f91dy3r714)

Thankyou Lancezh great piece of Kit and spare pegs too as we say in Yorkshire Jobs a good'un!

[Lancezh]

RaobF Disc Arrived this Morning a bit of a different Design than the Original one posted on the forum but excellent Quality very happy

Gees Mom where do the batteries go just kidding

any tutorials would be appreciated on the RaobF Disc I like the idea of using the same/similar Attack Discs real Submariners used in WWII

http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/a1f8/3qmq1f91dy3r7147g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/view/?3qmq1f91dy3r714)

Thankyou Lancezh great piece of Kit and spare pegs too as we say in Yorkshire Jobs a good'un!

I'm glad you like it, the one that you see on etsy had some issues that didnt let me sleep so i spent alot of hours to improve the design, make sure you fix the top hole as well so the disk has no room to wiggle at all.

I promise to have a tutorial in as soon as possible!

[Pisces]

I got my disk also today. I connected the spare pegs with a string through the center peg. Those are easier to hold and turn the middle ring by the holes.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1224&pictureid=10321

[blackswan40]

Hi Pisces good call drilling the pegs and threading string through am i right in thinking that the inner disc does'nt need to turn so one could glue the inner disc to the baseboard and also the four pegs attached to the plastic rods on that inner disc

[Pisces]

Yes, the center disk is supposed to be fixed, as is the outside ring. I guess you could glue it fixed. Only the one inbetween must rotate. So long the pegs don't come loose I don't think it is needed to glue. I first want to keep it so I can disassemble it. I used some parafin/candle wax to lubricate the surfaces and want to see how that holds up.

[rolandslaw]

Gents and Ladies: I thought you might like to know the meaning of the German Phrases on the various wheels.
Rad = Wheel; lage rad= Bearing wheel; Peilung rad= Course wheel; Zeit Rad Rack= Time wheel; Lage b. ShuB= location of shot; Kurs = Course; Vorhlat=deriviative; Vorkaltwindrel= lead angle; Einst= one; Gegnerkurse= opponent course; optische Lange= optical (takes into account the ship at an angle to determine compared to physical length of ship;

CyStryker

[rolandslaw]

I took digital copies of templates for the front and back of the disk stored on a thumb drive to Office Depot. I believe the disks are the front and back of the "Attack Disk". The tech was able to print the individual wheels of the two disks based upon a 200 mm maximum diameter. of the outer wheel of each disk. We printed them in color on heavy gloss white stock. They both came out perfectly. I had the transparencies printed to match the size of the wheels. I printed enough material for 4 disks at a cost of $22.00. I need to do the following: I need to find ,.. I think Home Depot has it... acrylic sheets to stiffen up the transparent items, clear glue and a pin system that will pin the wheels in the center that will not tear the paper wheels. I plan on adding the acrylic sheet to the back of the outer wheel in each disk and glue it to the wheel. Please note I did not cut away the pper from the inside of the wheels...including the outer wheels.... So when I glue the acrylic backing it will stiffen the entire disk therefore it should allow me to pick up the disks and hold in a vertical position. After I complete the task I will post the results on line with required info on diameters of each wheel.

I have a riveting device which I think will lend itself nicely to safely pin the wheels of each disk together in the center and allow free movement ( I need to determine what wheels should be fixed and glue that wheel in place). With the rivet I can secure different lengths and diameter rivets... armed with stainless washers I should be able to secure the wheels in the center without damaging the paper wheels.

I still can not find my first disk I made when I first started playing SH3:<)

Roland/CyStryker

[derstosstrupp]

Gents and Ladies: I thought you might like to know the meaning of the German Phrases on the various wheels.
Rad = Wheel; lage rad= Bearing wheel; Peilung rad= Course wheel; Zeit Rad Rack= Time wheel; Lage b. ShuB= location of shot; Kurs = Course; Vorhlat=deriviative; Vorkaltwindrel= lead angle; Einst= one; Gegnerkurse= opponent course; optische Lange= optical (takes into account the ship at an angle to determine compared to physical length of ship;

CyStryker

Some corrections to the translations if I may:

Lage Rad = AOB Wheel
Peilung Rad = Bearing Wheel
Lage b. Schuß = AOB at the moment of the shot
Vorhalt = shoot bearing
Vorhaltwinkel = lead angle (gyro angle)
Optische Länge = optical length
:Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

[rolandslaw]

Derstrosstrup:

Thank you for feed back.... :<) I will add this to my list I have.

Roland / CyStryker

[derstosstrupp]

Derstrosstrup:

Thank you for feed back.... :<) I will add this to my list I have.

Roland / CyStryker

Not a problem, great work here!:Kaleun_Applaud:

[tedh1]

Just ordered the Acrylic Attack Disk, can't wait!:Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

[rolandslaw]

Pisces"

I have made two disks from digital photos provided on this site. The front and back of the Attack Disk?. Are any of the wheels on either or both sides fixed like on the Raobf?

Also... I would like to post photos of my disks.... can you direct me to the thread wherein the "how to" post photos is explained.... can not find it.

The biggest problem I am having is making clean attachments to the "Whiz Wheel" ... the half circle, etc.... I had to go with a thin transparency ... cut the items out... place on a plastic ... clear sheet..... mark the plastic ... and cut with my dremel.... real slow. The clear glue works but now I have smudges on several of my items,....... Is there any way we could have the attachments printed in color on a thicker clear plastic?

I thank you for your considered input in the forums....

Roland / CyStryker

[Pisces]

Pisces"

I have made two disks from digital photos provided on this site. The front and back of the Attack Disk?. Are any of the wheels on either or both sides fixed like on the Raobf?None of them are fixed, they work independantly. But you can ofcourse use the larger disks as backfaces of eachother, then you only have 5 disks stacked on top of each other. Well, aside from the thin transparent pointers.

Also... I would like to post photos of my disks.... can you direct me to the thread wherein the "how to" post photos is explained.... can not find it.It took me a while to dig through Neal's latest responses. But I found it:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/photo_howto/


The biggest problem I am having is making clean attachments to the "Whiz Wheel" ... the half circle, etc.... I had to go with a thin transparency ... cut the items out... place on a plastic ... clear sheet..... mark the plastic ... and cut with my dremel.... real slow. The clear glue works but now I have smudges on several of my items,....... Is there any way we could have the attachments printed in color on a thicker clear plastic?

I thank you for your considered input in the forums....

Roland / CyStrykerSame here, I printed my transparent parts on transparent sheets for overhead-projectors. It has a rough surface that my inkjet printer could print on without smearing. As it is still quite thin and flimsy I covered it wil laminating foil. But due to the rough surface meant that you could still see air-bubbles under the laminating foil. It's more like it is a bit misty/milky to look through it. But it is do-able. And the transparent pointers still curl up a bit. I may have ironed them out between layers of cloth at the time.

To attach the transparent pointers to the disks (like the AOB disk and knots-pointer) I think I first stuck them on the sticky side of laminating foil. I didn't need additional glue (If I understood you correctly). So I avoided smudges that way. Then made sure pushpins went exactly through the center of the transparent parts and disks and pulled the oversized laminating foil around the disk it was attached to, to it's backside. (So capturing the transparent pointer between the foil and the disk. Being careful the pointer was aligned with the proper place on the disk)

I printed the disks themselves on A4 papersticker sheets. So I avoided smearing that way too. Stuck them onto empty cardboard boxes for additional rigidity. And laminated them for protection with sticky laminating foil. It also makes it a bit glossy in the wrong light. But I often turn down my livingroom light anyway to enhance night-sight in SH3 (,5) and WP.

For reference,images of my dirty old disk: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1211&pictureid=10251
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1211&pictureid=10250

[rolandslaw]

Pisces:

I am getting better at using my dremel in cutting the underlying clear plastic sheet. The sheet is rigid and not thick. I am picking up two more prints of the attachments today. And, a 1 1/4" dremel circular saw blade for plastic... most of the attachments have straight cuts... so this should be cleaner.

I also made templates from thick cardboard backers from writing pads. THis allows me to trace the template on the plastic w/o getting the template marked up before I glue it to the plastic cut out. And I am using a two step procedure in gluing the transparencies to the hard plastic.... after applying the glue to the plastic... I remove the plastic from the paper I am using to protect my dining table and place on another clean sheet of paper....No glue prints and smears on the mounted trans....:<)

Is the disk at the bottom known as the "Whiz Wheel" ?

Now, I am going to look again for the thread which references the procedure to attach photos...

Roland / CyStryker

[Pisces]

Actually, the one at the bottom is the historical side of the attack disk. As far as I learned from Hitman, the upper image time/speed/distance/angle side never existed. Or at least not as part of the attackdisk. It was created for gameplay reasons for SH3, as a counterpart. As for SH4 there was the American (Whiz)wheel which did have such aside.

[rolandslaw]

Pisces:

I went over to a graphics company and discussed making clean digital copies of the Raobf and transparencies. I used a photo from the web which was taken from a metallic tinted Raobf.. They are able to clean it up (remove the tainted ares) and digital print it to white at 200mm (8") outer disk diameter. this would give me a digital copy and a white high gloss paper print of this disk. They can also separate the three wheels and digital printing of these..... to fit the outer wheel at 200 mm diameter... each wheel to a separate sheet. When I get them I will post to this forum for everyone's use. I am going to ask them to tint the outer wheel a light brown, the middle wheel to light yellow and leave the center as white. Anyone can then take their jump drive to a printer like office depot and have accurate templates ready to print on a letter size white high gloss paper. The comp.. can also print on a white plastic either 1/32 or 1/16 thickness which would make backing the paper wheels unnecessary.

I am negotiating with them to place the transparencies ... I think Hitman posted.... on a 1/32 or 1/16 plastic transparent sheet. They can cut with laser and provide precut accurate transparencies and drilled with laser. .. center to allow use of a #10 screw... I need to keep the price of these to a minimum... When I find out the costs... I will let everyone know... this would beat the hell out of cutting transparent plastic and gluing to the transparencies:<)

I showed them my completed ATTACK DISK and another disk which I do not know what that one is used for. they were impressed.:<)

Roland / CyStryker

[Pisces]

Al right, good work. If you can show a picture of that mystery disk then I might be able to help figuring out it's use.

[rolandslaw]

Pisces:

I received a quote from the shop today for the Raobf three wheels.... $125.00!!! They have to make money to pay for a brick and concrete store:<) The price is well beyond the "useful and marginal utility" test...:<) I ordered the attachments for the attack disk (interception).... not cheap. 1/16 thick clear acrylic and laser cut to fit a disk at 8" or 200 mm diameter .... I should receive by Tuesday. I will photo them and post.... and photo them installed on my two disks.... u can tell me the id of the first disk....

I believe it was u who said u use transparency film used in overhead which comes with a glue side (remove the film...) . that would prevent the glue smudges...

I am disappointed on the cost of the acrylic Raobf parts... I did get a great... clear ......... digital set of the three wheels for the Raobf. I am going to make one based upon these templates.

Roland / CyStryker

[Pisces]

I think you misinterpreted. I printed on overhead sheets for inkjet printers. Later I laminated those with thin transparent foil with a sticky side.

To bad that it costs that much. But yeah, they got to make a living also. If the batch was larger then maybe the average price could come down. One-off is always more expensive.

[rolandslaw]

Pisces:

The middle wheel has "Zeit" printed at the bottom of the wheel. Zeit means time in German. I think the wheel is the game creation you spoke of above.....

When I receive the transparencies I will add to the two disks I made and post both photos....

I am still determined to make my own Raobf ... I want to try cutting the prints (on double sided high glass paper) more accurately rather than use the razer.... I am picking up a wheel cutter over at a hobby shop here locally.

If I could reduce the diameter of the inner wheels slightly ... I could cut them more easily and mount on a stiffening boards... is there a software program that would allow me to adjust the diameter in 1% increments.???

When I get it right I will color the wheels and post online so others can use...

If all fails... its the acrylic Raobf for me :<)
Roland

[Markus Witt]

Instead of making your own RAOBF disk you could also just buy a slide rule to calculate range, speed and AOB. I use the attached circular slide rule, all RAOBF calculations can be made very quickly with this and you can also use it to make other calculations that the RAOFB disk can't:

* speed calculations for ausdampfverfahren and auswanderungsverfahren;
* torpedo running time base on range and actual range to target based on torpedo running time;
* Time, range and speed for general navigation.

I use it all the time and find it very usefull.

[derstosstrupp]

Instead of making your own RAOBF disk you could also just buy a slide rule to calculate range, speed and AOB. I use the attached circular slide rule, all RAOBF calculations can be made very quickly with this and you can also use it to make other calculations that the RAOFB disk can't:

* speed calculations for ausdampfverfahren and auswanderungsverfahren;
* torpedo running time base on range and actual range to target based on torpedo running time;
* Time, range and speed for general navigation.

I use it all the time and find it very usefull.

Ausdampfverfahren and Auswanderungsverfahren - glad to see these being used! I’d love to have a high quality slide rule like that. Where did you get yours?

[Markus Witt]

Ausdampfverfahren and Auswanderungsverfahren - glad to see these being used! I’d love to have a high quality slide rule like that. Where did you get yours?

It's from a Japanese company called Concise. You can find them on the internet. As far as I could tell they're the only company selling circular slide rules.
They have a few different models. I ordered a few from them. The one shown in the picture is model no. 300. This one is the most suitable for the calculations you have to make. They cost about $30 each plus you have to pay shipping cost as they are send from Japan.

[Pisces]

Consise: https://www.sliderule.tokyo/products/list.php?category_id=30

I've send the site a request for information whether the instructions are in Japanese or also other languages. I know the scales are pretty standard. And there are likely to be tutorials online on how to use it. That is, for targeting/navigation we would still need to figure out on our own the rotation and mark alignement steps in the right order.

[Markus Witt]

The instructions included with the slide rules are in Japanese only. I found some English instructions on the internet, but have not read them yet. Figuring out how to use them is not that difficult. I was able to figure out how to calculate everything fairly easily. (well, after some trial and error)

[derstosstrupp]

Thanks fellas, order’s going out in short order!

[derstosstrupp]

Website says $3,200 with a dollar sign..... I’m guessing that is in Yen...... the fact that it has a dollar sign though.....

[Pisces]

If I put it in the shopping cart then it shows as 3,200 JPY. The comma representing units in thousand I presume. As that seems a likely price converted to euro's.

[Markus Witt]

3200 yen is 25.90 euro or 29.1 dollar.

[NeonsStyle]

Ridiculously expensive for what it is. It should be about $20 and you'd
sell heaps of them.

[Pisces]

Response from Consise:
Dear Mr. Rico Jansen,

Thank you for your inquiry.

All our products comes with instructions.
But there are Japanese instruction only except for NO.28.
(No.28 ・・with English manual.)
Sorry for your inconvenience.

Thank you.
Matsu****a

Concise Co., Ltd.

[Markus Witt]

Response from Consise:

I have the no. 28 and indeed it has English instructions, though I never read them. All slide rules come with similar instructions which are basically just leaflets, folded sheets of paper, with basic instructions. But you do not really need these instructions. All slide rules work pretty much the same and instructions on how to use them can be found on the internet.

The no. 27N and 28N are exactly the same, the only difference is that 27N is the Japanese versio and 28N the English. These are very basic pocket sized slide rule (diameter 8.35 cm). These do not have trigonometry scales.

For in-game use you need either the no. 270N (outside diameter 10 cm) or the no. 300 (outside diameter 11 cm). Both these have scales on both sides and include trigonometry scales. The no.300 in the most suitable to use for calculations needed in game as the C, D and trig. scales are all on the same side. The no. 270N does not have these scales on the same side so you have to flip it over while doing calculations and it requires more steps.

[rolandslaw]

I am trying several attempts... topost some of the photos I made regarding my attempts at making disks and templates... here are some


http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/pictures.php?albumid=1

or not :?*

[skip]

Hi all

Some question with regards to the RAOBF wheel.

Will the wheel work for SH3, SH4 and SH5 or does it depend on the certain mods that ensure that the tick makes on the periscope view correspond with the scale on the RAOBF.

With regards to sharpness and clarity which one ( maple or acrylic ) is the better. I ask because I was thinking of purchasing the Acrylic version but I was concerned that with use over time scuffs and scratches would develop on the underside because of the contact with the mdf backing board and this would be seen because it is clear. Would some kind of velvet backing on the mdf board help to stop this do you think.

Thanks

[Pisces]

The size scale is based on that of Wolfpack, which are in centi-radians. Which basically means a slope of 1 meter height, by 100 meter distance is used as the unit. It would depend on the mod which scale they follow. Better ask the creator of the mod if it is (mili-)radian based, or if it is sized in terms of degrees. The former is the most common way. Otherwise you would have to make reference calculations of ships in a friendly harbor with known mastheight or length at a known distance to a dock or something. Or true map positions with map-updates enabled.

I have an acrylic version of the attack disk (course solver) wheel with a wooden back plate. The laser printed side is on the top. So mine will not immediately wear off due to rotating. But the backside might reduce the contrast to the underground if wear develops. Unfortunately I am unable to say something about wear as I have not used it much because of lack of play time the past months. A velvet or some other soft cloth would seem to be a good idea if this develops. MY RAOBF is of MDF so can't relate to that either.

[skip]

Thanks for the quick reply, could you post a link to the wolfpack mod so I could read up on it.

Many thanks.

Also to the designer of these tools if you could find a way to make the german ones ie Zeit Disk and the Angriffsscheibe I would definitely throw my wallet at owning them in the same build quality

[Pisces]

It's not a mod. It's a game, and this thread is in the forum section for it. ;)

https://store.steampowered.com/app/490920/Wolfpack/

[skip]

Pices the acrylic attack disk you mentioned is it one of the versions on sale here, if so could you perhaps answer a few questions with regards to its ease of use and construction.

1. How is it built and does it hold together well with the pin

2. Do the discs move easily and hold their set position well

cheers

[Pisces]

Pices the acrylic attack disk you mentioned is it one of the versions on sale here, if so could you perhaps answer a few questions with regards to its ease of use and construction.

1. How is it built and does it hold together well with the pin

2. Do the discs move easily and hold their set position well

cheersBecause I helped Lancezh with how to make the scales for the RAOBF he sent me some test samples of the wooden RAOBF and the acrylic attack disk to check. So they are not entirely representative of the final product.

The final RAOBF has a reasonable smooth turn from the beginning. After some use it gets better by it self-abrassing the rims. I pre-empted with rubbing candle-paraffin. But I don't think it was needed in the end. Instead of the round pins he now supplies wooden pegs which stick deeper and keep it better together. I can hold it up-side-down. The spare-pegs also double as gripping tools. As your fingers won't have much grip on the holes because of their size. See message #8.

The acrylic rings of the attack disk course solver are running very smooth inside each other. In fact, because of the flat surface of the AOB disk the bearing-arm actually sticks too well to it (by vacuum suction) making them turn together when not fixed by your fingers. I don't know what Lancezh supplies now, but the plastic round pins are too short for my taste. Mine does not penetrate the back-plate far enough to hold together. Although the rings stay well centered on the back-plate when it is laying flat on a table, it comes off too easily when picking up and tilting the base plate. I intend to fix it with a countersunk metal or plastic bolt and nut when I use it extensively. The stickiness of the arm on my ring/disks may also be due to too much pressure on the plastic pin I just found out.