[WIP] Fairmile B Motor Launch [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

gap

04-01-19, 11:52 AM

...my first attempt to create a ship model for Silent Hunter...

Well done kapuhy, your model looks like a clean one :up:

When it's finished, I plan to import it like SH3 ships as .dat as I don't know a way to export Blender model to .gr2

There is no way to import blender files directly in game, neither as dat nor as gr2 units; you must export your models as wavefront (obj) files before you can import them in game using either Skwas' Silent3ditor (http://s3d.skwas.com/) or TDW's gr2 importer/exporter (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1757906#post1757906).

Due to the limits of the latter program, relying on the gr2 format might do things a bit more complicated, though gr2 models inported in SH5 look much better than dat ones, and they are better supported by the game engine. Considering the simple unit you are currently working on, you might give a try to Gr2 Editor :03:

Hmm... I began working on textures and have a question - is it possible to have multiple texture variants on a ship model without adding multiple ship classes to roster?

In SHIV and SH5 camouflages are painted on models' ambient occlusion maps. You can make those maps configurable via cfg file by prepending the 'cfg#TXR' string to the name of their respective material.

Once unit's materials are set up correctly, there are two ways that you can make it to use more than one texture: you can assign multiple texture definitions to the same unit using its roster cfg file, or you can create several 'proxy clones' (i.e. clones of a unit sharing the same dat/obj, sim, etc. files) and give each one one individual texture. Proxy clones can be made to be recognized as just one unit in the recognition manual btw.

Don't hesitate asking in case you need more details on either method :salute:

vdr1981

04-01-19, 02:02 PM

Once unit's materials are set up correctly, there are two ways that you can make it to use more than one texture: you can assign multiple texture definitions to the same unit using its roster cfg file,
This doesn't work very well since ships will always be rendered with the same paint, regardless of roster cfg settings if spawned in one convoy, for example.

or you can create several 'proxy clones' (i.e. clones of a unit sharing the same dat/obj, sim, etc. files) and give each one one individual texture. Proxy clones can be made to be recognized as just one unit in the recognition manual btw.

This is the only way to actually have different paints for different nations...

kapuhy

04-01-19, 02:34 PM

import them in game using either Skwas' Silent3ditor (http://s3d.skwas.com/) or TDW's gr2 importer/exporter (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1757906#post1757906).

Thanks! I wasn't even aware TDW's gr2 editor had import option, only after your answer I finally found it. I'll have to take a closer look at it.

This is the only way to actually have different paints for different nations...

Considering no one has yet used this method to "paint" bajillion historical ship names / numbers on the hulls, I guess it does come with some drawbacks though?

gap

04-01-19, 05:14 PM

This doesn't work very well since ships will always be rendered with the same paint, regardless of roster cfg settings if spawned in one convoy, for example.

This is the only way to actually have different paints for different nations...

Yes, that's a known drawback of the SH5 multi-texturing system, but are you sure that it doesn't apply to proxy clones as well?

Other than that, I think that despite the fact that we can have any number of textures set in the cfg file, only the first three texture definitions are actually used as early, middle and late war camouflages, set in GroupTypesDefs.cfg as 0, 1 and 2 respectively. This is a little disappointing because roster texture definitions have start/end dates and frequency settings, suggesting a random texture assignment based on in-game dates. Those settings can as well be the clue of an unfinished feature (as it is common in SH games), but before discarding them, has anyone tried setting the camouflage parameter to -1 and seeing if such a setting forces the game to use more that three textures and to apply date and frequency parameters?

Thanks! I wasn't even aware TDW's gr2 editor had import option, only after your answer I finally found it. I'll have to take a closer look at it.

:up:

vdr1981

04-02-19, 06:03 AM

Yes, that's a known drawback of the SH5 multi-texturing system, but are you sure that it doesn't apply to proxy clones as well?

Pretty much, yes...

gap

04-02-19, 07:16 AM

Pretty much, yes...

What about that?

has anyone tried setting the camouflage parameter to -1 and seeing if such a setting forces the game to use more that three textures and to apply date and frequency parameters?

vdr1981

04-02-19, 08:19 AM

What about that?

From my experience, one 3D model (gr2 or dat) = one paint , if rendered in the same scene (area). I cloned a number of dat units using S3D editor in order to bypass this problem.

Solution with roster cfg files can work pretty well in case of units which will probably wont ever be rendered in the same area, for example some British and German generic freighter, used by both nations...

gap

04-02-19, 08:55 AM

From my experience, one 3D model (gr2 or dat) = one paint , if rendered in the same scene (area). I cloned a number of dat units using S3D editor in order to bypass this problem.

Solution with roster cfg files can work pretty well in case of units which will probably wont ever be rendered in the same area, for example some British and German generic freighter, used by both nations...

Yes, we already agreed on that, but my question was relative to a different (though related) topic. Please re-read my remarks on it:

...despite the fact that we can have any number of textures set in the cfg file, only the first three texture definitions are actually seen in game as early, middle and late war camouflages, set in GroupTypesDefs.cfg as 0, 1 and 2 respectively.

This is a bit disappointing because roster texture definitions have start/end dates and frequency settings, suggesting a random texture assignment based on in-game dates. Those settings can as well be the clue of an unfinished feature (as it is common in SH games), but before discarding them, has anyone tried setting the camouflage parameter to -1 and seeing if such a setting forces the game to use more that three textures and to apply date and frequency parameters?

vdr1981

04-03-19, 04:38 AM

Yes, we already agreed on that, but my question was relative to a different (though related) topic. Please re-read my remarks on it:

Can't really comment that. It needs to be tested...

gap

04-03-19, 09:02 AM

Can't really comment that. It needs to be tested...

Okay. I think that that might be worth some tests since the same principle might also apply to sensors and armaments...

kapuhy

04-03-19, 03:17 PM

Guys, a quick question: is it possible to make flag smaller? (without changing the size of flags on other ships of course). The huge default flag simply doesn't fit the flagpole on such a small boat.

gap

04-03-19, 05:57 PM

Guys, a quick question: is it possible to make flag smaller? (without changing the size of flags on other ships of course). The huge default flag simply doesn't fit the flagpole on such a small boat.

If you opted for the dat format, I think that you have no control on the flag size other than the naming of the flag node:

cfg#FLG = war ensign, large
cfg#FLS = war ensign, small
cfg#FLGC = civil ensign

It is likely that the same naming convention applies to GR2 units too, but chances are that the flag size of granny-format units can be fine-tuned further by using bone trasform (scale) data. My suggestion is you to have a look into this mod (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=3478). By comparing its modded files with stock ones, you can easily understand how uekel achieved his smaller flags.

kapuhy

04-04-19, 02:20 AM

cfg#FLG = war ensign, large
cfg#FLS = war ensign, small
cfg#FLGC = civil ensign

Weird... I just tried it and the flag size stays about the same (roughly 1,5 times as high as the flagpole). It might be shorter horizontally with #FLS but I'm not sure.

Another minor thing I've noticed with the flag is that while it moves around with flagpole as ship bounces on waves, it doesn't seem to tilt accordingly, so with bigger waves you can see flag edges moving away from the flagpole.

(and yes, I've tried simplier .dat import through s3ditor first, though I still intend to try doing a gr2 version as well. This way I'll learn how both available editors work)

If I can't get the flag smaller, I'll probably just lower the yard (is this the correct English term?) a bit to accomodate for bigger flag.

gap

04-04-19, 05:31 AM

Weird... I just tried it and the flag size stays about the same (roughly 1,5 times as high as the flagpole). It might be shorter horizontally with #FLS but I'm not sure.

Maybe #FLS flag nodes are just a SHIII/SHIV thing. As I said in my previous post, in SH5 there might be a better way to reduce flag size (if the gr2 format is used).

Another minor thing I've noticed with the flag is that while it moves around with flagpole as ship bounces on waves, it doesn't seem to tilt accordingly, so with bigger waves you can see flag edges moving away from the flagpole.

That's weird, I have never seen anything similar :hmm2:

(and yes, I've tried simplier .dat import through s3ditor first, though I still intend to try doing a gr2 version as well. This way I'll learn how both available editors work)

Okay, importing your first vessel as a dat unit will be a good exercise, even if at some point you will decide to switch to the gr2 format :03:

If I can't get the flag smaller, I'll probably just lower the yard (is this the correct English term?) a bit to accomodate for bigger flag.

I am not a native English speaker either, but I think that a yard is an horizontal pole crossing a mast at a 90 deg angle in the port/starboard direction. I don't know how you want to accomodate the flag on your ship model, but to the bets of my knowledge naval ensigns were (and are) usually flown from a ensign staff at the ship's stern while at port, and from a gaff (i.e. a slanted pole usually diverging from a mast in the longitudinal direction) over the stern while underway. Maybe the picture below will make things clearer for you:

http://www.usps.org/national/fecom/images/nationalparkgaffpole.jpg

kapuhy

04-04-19, 12:12 PM

Thanks gap!

I didn't know of this and initially placed the ensign simply on the mast head (which caused problems because Fairmile's yardarm is rather close to the mast head and flag reached below it), but after your post I checked the photos from WW2 and they all show ensign flying from the gaff as you told. I'll be correcting this in my model, and incidentally it solves the issue of flag size as well, because between the gaff and the deck I have enough space to hoist three flags if I wanted :)

In the meantime hit another obstacle - I can't find where the game stores models and data for weapons. Ship .dat and .eqp files contain references to various weapons and I can place them on ship by copying those references from existing units - but where are weapon models themselves and is it possible to edit/add new ones?

For historically accurate equipement on Fairmile, I need four kinds of weapons:
- Hotchkiss QF 3pdr (45mm) (initially mounted as main gun on foredeck)
- 20 mm Oerlikon AA guns (those replaced 3pdr later on, and additional one was mounted on aft deck)
- .303 Lewis machine guns
- this kind of crude DC racks:
https://i.imgur.com/ryE3I8m.jpg

EDIT: Just found the weapons. data/Library folder :)

Seaowl

04-04-19, 03:53 PM

Very cool model of the Fairmile, kapuhy!

:Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

Small units like Subchasers, Tugs, Trawlers are always a great addition!

If there are questions to GR2 editor: within the next days I will try to sum up my

experiences so far with transferring obj. models from blender to GR2 editor.

But a lot of things are nebulous to me....

gap

04-04-19, 04:28 PM

Thanks gap!

My pleasure kapuhy, while you update your model you might find the followin articles on flag etiquette useful:

https://www.marineinsight.com/guidelines/nautical-flag-etiquettes/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_flag#Flag_etiquette

For historically accurate equipement on Fairmile, I need four kinds of weapons:
- Hotchkiss QF 3pdr (45mm) (initially mounted as main gun on foredeck)
- 20 mm Oerlikon AA guns (those replaced 3pdr later on, and additional one was mounted on aft deck)
- .303 Lewis machine guns
- this kind of crude DC racks:
https://i.imgur.com/ryE3I8m.jpg

The 20 mm Oerlikon and the depth charge ramps should be easy to find among stock SHIII/IV/5 and custom-made library armaments. Moreover, I have nicely detailed models of the most common US and British depth charges that I will be happy to share with you if you like. Here is myy rendition of the British Type "D" Mk III DC:

https://i.imgur.com/quIhxuD.png

On the other hand, I am sure that the Hotchkiss 3-pounder and the Lewis MG are not among the stock armaments, and I doubt that you will find them in any SH mod. I have a nice model of a lewis gun on my HD, my own work; I can similarly send it your way, but you would have to decimate its polygons, as it is a bit too detailed for use as an AI gun, and you would need to model a pedestal for it:

https://i.imgur.com/w5vSc9i.png

EDIT: Just found the weapons. data/Library folder :)

I am afraid that by relying on the dat format you won't be able to use GR2 armaments directly on your unit, unless you give up the unified render controller and the connected texture maps: granny equipments look entirely black when placed on dat units with the aforementioned controller :yep:

kapuhy

04-07-19, 11:43 AM

That's a lovely depth charge, I'd love to use it if you allow it. As for MG you're right, such a small weapon, if it is to be included, should have very simple model. Perhaps the best option would be to use yours for reference to make a extremely low poly version?

I am afraid that by relying on the dat format you won't be able to use GR2 armaments directly on your unit, unless you give up the unified render controller and the connected texture maps: granny equipments look entirely black when placed on dat units with the aforementioned controller :yep:

Wartime expediency - with what I've already learned about .dat format I think I'll be able to have the boat seaworthy within a few days and when .dat version is out there protecting the convoys my R&D dept. can switch to figuring out .gr2 format in order to eventually sink U-Boats in style.

By the way, where are .gr2 weapons? Only files whose names suggest weapon models fail to open properly in TDW's editor (meaning, they do open but there seems to be no model to see in preview window...)

kapuhy

07-29-19, 01:32 AM

When I wrote last post I hoped to finish it in a few days... and then got distracted by other things for months. Still, now that I have some time again, I dug the files out in order to finish it.

I still have to make some final improvements to the model and then texture it (which might take a while since I'm pretty much a noob at UV mapping) but I did a test import into game and it worked pretty well in most regards: it shows up in game, sails, fights, explodes and sinks no problem. Because of lack of Hotchkiss 3pdr I used single 2pdr on front deck and Oerlikons for AA mounts.

Now one thing I couldn't figure out is how to make a working ASW weapon. I made a W01 (asw) slot where Fairmile historically mounted an Y-gun and as far as I can tell, I configured everything identical as it is in Japanese Akizuki and Sub Chaser dat-format ships, yet those ships show up in game with ASW weapons while my Fairmile has an empty spot there.

I got Y-gun to show up when I put it in M01 (main armament) node but it refused to fire. Anything I try to assign to W01 node just doesn't show up.

EDIT: Done some more experiments with W01 slot. Well... any ASW weapon I put there works now... with exception of Y-Gun. Sigh.

SH5 with TWoS has 4 Y-Guns in game files: two .gr2 (YGun, YGun_Mk9), which show black on a .dat ship (don't mind the ship ugly texture for now, it's a placeholder)

https://i.imgur.com/GHDKfvd.jpg

An SH4 version which shows up like this and refuses to fire:

https://i.imgur.com/S8uD2Fr.jpg

And SH3 version which doesn't show up at all.

I have no idea why SH3 K-Gun and DC rack work in SH5 and Y-gun doesn't. Tested it with other ships (like Japanese destroyers) and results are the same.

kapuhy

09-02-19, 02:04 AM

Update: I'm mostly done with main texture - here's how it looks in S3D:

https://i.imgur.com/E7feKFS.jpg

Having trouble with lightmap though, I can't get the hang of how to make specular mask properly and in game ship becomes whiter than KKK member walking out of laundry.

gap

09-02-19, 10:45 AM

Update: I'm mostly done with main texture - here's how it looks in S3D:

Simply amazing, I can't wait to see her in game! :yeah:

Having trouble with lightmap though, I can't get the hang of how to make specular mask properly and in game ship becomes whiter than KKK member walking out of laundry.

That's ugly lol :O:

Are you relying on the dat format? And if yes, have you added your lightmap using the unified render controller?

kapuhy

09-04-19, 01:04 PM

Are you relying on the dat format? And if yes, have you added your lightmap using the unified render controller?

Yes, it's in dat format. When I get it into relasable state in dat, then I'll see if I can port it into gr2.

As for the second question - lacking any experience with dat file structure, I approached it by using one of existing ships as template, and then changing node after node to fit my model. So my method of adding lightmap was "replace original O01.dds file with my own". I think the problem is in how I made the file, not how it was added though - in other words, I don't know what to put in alpha layer for the ship to look "natural".

gap

09-04-19, 05:03 PM

Yes, it's in dat format. When I get it into relasable state in dat, then I'll see if I can port it into gr2.

Good plan :up:

As for the second question - lacking any experience with dat file structure, I approached it by using one of existing ships as template, and then changing node after node to fit my model. So my method of adding lightmap was "replace original O01.dds file with my own". I think the problem is in how I made the file, not how it was added though - in other words, I don't know what to put in alpha layer for the ship to look "natural".

Well, if you used a native SHIV ship as template, you should know that SH5's specular masks are probably darker than SHIV ones.

If you want to make a comparison, in SH5 those texture maps are stored in the alpha channels of main (diffuse) textures, whereas for stock SHIV units they are stored in ambient occlusion map's alpha channels (O1 etc.).

Talking on this topic, probably I have already pointed you to the thread linked below, but I recommend you to re-read it carefully as it contains reports of how various modders had to rework SHIV light maps for them to look right in SH5:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1644371#post1644371

Besides that, unless you didn't enable the ambient occlusion map in S3d, I see from your previews that your new unit is still missing one. AO maps are a bit more complicated than other maps, but they can make a big difference in how natural the illumination of various 3D objects looks in game.
Just give me a sign when you are ready to add one to your gracious model. :salute:

kapuhy

09-07-19, 12:07 PM

Thanks for this link Gap, there's a ton of useful info in this thread. I'm browsing through it and tweaking some values in my ship's files to get rid of the lighting problems and other bugs. I have to edit the .zon files as well since these still weren't changed from original ship.

I probably will have to make my own ASW weapons for it as well. Even if I could get SH3 or SH4 Y-gun to work (SH5 works, but is rendered black on dat model), they have far too much ammo for this kind of ship. And no DC chute that would fit for stern depth charges is in game files.

Meanwhile, some shots of the current version in game:

https://i.imgur.com/ZXx7MG5.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/c1IbEmN.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/1xZnXQH.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/1N1F5hp.jpg

gap

09-07-19, 12:51 PM

Thanks for this link Gap, there's a ton of useful info in this thread.

My pleasure :)

I'm browsing through it and tweaking some values in my ship's files to get rid of the lighting problems and other bugs. I have to edit the .zon files as well since these still weren't changed from original ship.

Yes, the damage model is one of the main differences between SH5 and its predecessors. Without the tweaks that you are mentioning, your new unit wouldn't take any damage from collisions/explosions.

I probably will have to make my own ASW weapons for it as well. Even if I could get SH3 or SH4 Y-gun to work (SH5 works, but is rendered black on dat model), they have far too much ammo for this kind of ship. And no DC chute that would fit for stern depth charges is in game files.

I don't remember having seen DC chutes in any of the stock SH5 unit. You could probably borrow a chute 3D model from one of the small ASW vessels released in the past for SHIII/IV, but looking for them would probably take much longer than modelling one from scratch...

On a side note, be warned that even though you give to your boat the appropriate unit type, depending on her displacement she might have an hard time at using her depth charges. That's caused by a limit of SH's AI, as small units try to avoid collision with bigger mass units, even though they are submerged.

Meanwhile, some shots of the current version in game:

Wow, she looks so nice (though you haven't placed the ensign in the gaff position yet :03:)!

kapuhy

09-08-19, 03:45 AM

On a side note, be warned that even though you give to your boat the appropriate unit type, depending on her displacement she might have an hard time at using her depth charges. That's caused by a limit of SH's AI, as small units try to avoid collision with bigger mass units, even though they are submerged.

That'd be a bummer... on the bright side, she doesn't have any trouble using Y-gun - in test mission it was scary good at locating me with ASDIC and then making a precision DC drop on my head.

That's with SH5 Y-gun though. SH4 and 3 Y-guns don't work, not just on my ship but on any imported ship in TWoS. I tried all kind of things with them and got nowhere.

As for damage model, I used an already imported ship in TWoS for template file, so she does sink, burn and even capsize, just in wrong way. I'll just remake all spheres/boxes to fit her dimensions and internal compartments.

By the way, is there a way to check if the ship has correct dimensions in game? I set the draft at 1,47 meters, but torpedoes launched at 1,0 and 1,2 meter depth went under her hull - I'm not sure whether it's faulty torpedoes, wave motion or wrong dimensions.

gap

09-08-19, 06:51 AM

That'd be a bummer... on the bright side, she doesn't have any trouble using Y-gun - in test mission it was scary good at locating me with ASDIC and then making a precision DC drop on my head.

That's good, if the Y gun works on your boat I don't see why other types of DC throwers wouldn't do the same :up:

That's with SH5 Y-gun though. SH4 and 3 Y-guns don't work, not just on my ship but on any imported ship in TWoS. I tried all kind of things with them and got nowhere.

I had a look into SH5's Y gun and I compared it with the one from SHIV. Apparently, the they have slightly differente file structures:

in SHIV:

Node - YGun (3D model: the base of the thrower with arm #1)

Node - YGun02 (3D model: arm #2)

Node - YGun_barrel02 (3D model: DC #2)

Node - YGun_barrel01 (3D model: DC #1)

in SH5:

Bone - Y Gun (3D model: the base of the thrower with arm #1)

Bone - barrel_01 (3D model: none)
Bone - YGun_barrel01 (3D model: DC #1)

Bone - YGun02

Bone - YGun_barrel02 (3D model: DC #2)
Bone - barrel_02 (3D model: none)

Marked in bold are the nodes whose name is specified in the 'Barrel' field of the wpn_KGun controller for both games. As you can see, SH5's Y guns have a couple of extra dummy bones over SHIV ones. I don't know for sure why they are there (at first I thought they are used for determining the throwing directions, but obviously that's not the case since they have no rotation data), but they might be essential for SH5 being able to trigger its DC projectors.

As for damage model, I used an already imported ship in TWoS for template file, so she does sink, burn and even capsize, just in wrong way. I'll just remake all spheres/boxes to fit her dimensions and internal compartments.

Okay, for a small unit as your launch, that task shouldn't be too complicated :)

By the way, is there a way to check if the ship has correct dimensions in game?

Not a very accurate one, but...

I set the draft at 1,47 meters, but torpedoes launched at 1,0 and 1,2 meter depth went under her hull - I'm not sure whether it's faulty torpedoes, wave motion or wrong dimensions.

...one unit of length in most 3D editing programs is equal to ten meters in the SH world. Knowing that, you can place a mark on your unit near the desired/expected waterline and see what's happening in game. You can even draw draft marks near the bow of your boat, but when you set the testing mission, don't forget to set the cargo of your unit to none, and wind speed to zero, as both factors might affect ships draught in game :03:

kapuhy

09-08-19, 04:40 PM

Jeff-Groves

09-08-19, 05:32 PM

Since you stated you do not have a proper zon file?
I'm not surprised.

gap

09-08-19, 05:47 PM

Just tested her with standard DC rack. The "avoiding collision" problem was very visible in shallow waters (sub at periscope depth), Fairmiles were circling the sub but never going directly over it, which caused them to miss.

That's exactly what I was talking about :yep:

In deeper water with submarine on 80 meters, they were making runs directly over the sub and were able to hit it.

Okay, good finding

Since you stated you do not have a proper zon file?
I'm not surprised.

Hi Jeff, glad to see you around!

Answering your comment, I am afraid that in the case we are discussing zon file settings have only a minor relevance: I remember having read reports of same AI behaviour shown by PT boats and other small ASW vessels in SHIII or SHIV, and I don't think those units had bad collision settings :yep:

Jeff-Groves

09-08-19, 05:55 PM

Hi Jeff, glad to see you around!

Answering your comment, I am afraid that in the case we are discussing zon file settings have only a minor relevance: I remember having read reports of same AI behaviour shown by PT boats and other small ASW vessels in SHIII or SHIV, and I don't think those units had bad collision settings :yep:

One may tend to believe reports as posted. I'd prefer to see the exact Units involved in said reports.
As I recall? One of the ASW trawlers in GWX 3 is considered the deadliest ever turned loose.
:haha:
In fact? I had to tone it down as it would blow itself up at times!

And I am always watching the forums here. I may not log in but I'm here.

Jeff-Groves

09-08-19, 07:01 PM

As always I intend no disrespect.
But I'd like to see all files involved. Including the Y gun files.
Yeah I could down load everything but I'm not into going that far.

gap

09-09-19, 08:49 AM

One may tend to believe reports as posted. I'd prefer to see the exact Units involved in said reports.

Sure enough blunders by other modders are to be taken into account but, even in the worst case, their reports contain useful clues that I often learned from. That said, by no means reading the forum replaces direct experience and, most importantly, one failing to do something doesn't necessarily prevent someone else from succeeding in the same task.

As I recall? One of the ASW trawlers in GWX 3 is considered the deadliest ever turned loose.
:haha:
In fact? I had to tone it down as it would blow itself up at times!

No surprise about that. If memory serves me well what matters for AI's collision avoidance routines is unit's mass as declared in its sim file. An ASW trawler is a fatter badass than a PT boat or a motor lauch, though a careful placement of collision spheres around smaller units might help mitigating their overcautious attitude toward collisions.

And I am always watching the forums here. I may not log in but I'm here.

So do I, though at time I am too busy to reply.

As always I intend no disrespect.

No offense taken of course. Your terse wisdom will always be appreciated with me :03: :up:

kapuhy

09-10-19, 03:07 AM

Hi guys,

I remade zon file yesterday, but I'm not yet satisfied with the results - the ship takes too long to sink for its size so I'll be tweaking the zon file until I get a good looking result.

In the meantime, I uploaded SH4 and SH3 Y-gun files to my Google Drive in case you'd like to take a look. Y-guns in TWoS are part of files containing other asw weapons as well. Themselves, they are not used by any ship except Japanese sub chaser, which is configured to use SH3 Y-gun but, like on my ship, weapon doesn't appear on deck.

K-guns and DC racks contained in these same files work without problem and are used by multiple ships.

Link below:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zaVFr26xcheSZdW9q0V5UV7n3goizg3t

Jeff-Groves

09-10-19, 02:52 PM

That file from twos?
Just a quick look tells me there are problems.

kapuhy

09-10-19, 03:25 PM

That file from twos?
Just a quick look tells me there are problems.

Yes, both these files are from twos.

gap

09-11-19, 12:30 PM

I remade zon file yesterday, but I'm not yet satisfied with the results - the ship takes too long to sink for its size so I'll be tweaking the zon file until I get a good looking result.

You can have a look at the damage settings of other small vessels in case you think they display more realistic sinking dynamics, and get inspiration from them. If need be you can create new damage zone types with customized flooding time settings, and assign them to your unit.

In the meantime, I uploaded SH4 and SH3 Y-gun files to my Google Drive in case you'd like to take a look.

Sorry for my late reply on that, but inexplicably S3d has stopped working on my laptop, and I had to install it on an old computer in order to check your files...

That file from twos?
Just a quick look tells me there are problems.

...I definitely see some problems too, though I don't know if they are the same spotted by Jeff. So you said that SHIII's YGun refuses to show up in game. Is that correct? What about the SHIV version then?

kapuhy

09-11-19, 02:44 PM

You can have a look at the damage settings of other small vessels in case you think they display more realistic sinking dynamics, and get inspiration from them. If need be you can create new damage zone types with customized flooding time settings, and assign them to your unit.

I'd prefer not to make new zone types if I could to avoid compatibility problems, but I think existing zones will be enough. Currently I'm doing live fire exercises with a lot of fishing boats :)

...I definitely see some problems too, though I don't know if they are the same spotted by Jeff. So you said that SHIII's YGun refuses to show up in game. Is that correct? What about the SHIV version then?

I posted a screenshot earlier in this thread:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2620716&postcount=22

SHIV shows up partially (only the base part, not the second arm and barrels) and refuses to fire.

gap

09-11-19, 05:19 PM

I'd prefer not to make new zone types if I could to avoid compatibility problems, but I think existing zones will be enough. Currently I'm doing live fire exercises with a lot of fishing boats :)

I understand that

I posted a screenshot earlier in this thread:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2620716&postcount=22

Oh, sorry, I had missed that post!

SHIV shows up partially (only the base part, not the second arm and barrels) and refuses to fire.

Okay, so let's start from the SHIV YGun. In SH4_guns_radars.dat you should:

rename the label at chunk #358 from 'YGun02' to 'YGun_SH4_02';
rename the label at chunk #361 from 'YGun_barrel02' to 'YGun_SH4_barrel02';
rename the label at chunk #364 from 'YGun_barrel01'' to 'YGun_SH4_barrel01';
change the Id of the node at chunk #357 from '0xfffffd33814467cd' to any other random Id;

in SH4_guns_radars.sim:

change the parent Id of the node at chunk #72 from '0xfffffd33814467cd' to the new Id assigned in the previous step;
change the 'Barrel' parameter in the wpn_KGun controller at chunk #71 from 'YGun_barrel01' to 'YGun_SH4_barrel01';
change the 'Barrel' parameter in the wpn_KGun controller at chunk #73 from 'YGun_barrel02' to 'YGun_SH4_barrel02'.

Let me know if anything changes in game.

Jeff-Groves

09-11-19, 06:41 PM

Watch the ID's also.
:03:
You'll need to open the SH5 stuff in Goblin to get the ID's if you don't have the S3D stuff for SH5

gap

09-11-19, 09:38 PM

Watch the ID's also.
:03:
You'll need to open the SH5 stuff in Goblin to get the ID's if you don't have the S3D stuff for SH5

Which Id's Jeff? Can you be more specific?

A couple of SHIII/SHIV YGun nodes have duplicated Id's, and that's why I have suggested to change them, but why should we check SH5 Id's? Is there anything special about them? :hmm2:

kapuhy

09-12-19, 12:44 PM

Let me know if anything changes in game.

Well, second arm of the launcher has appeared, but still both arms lack barrels on them and refuse to fire.

Jeff-Groves

09-12-19, 04:23 PM

Which Id's Jeff? Can you be more specific?

A couple of SHIII/SHIV YGun nodes have duplicated Id's, and that's why I have suggested to change them, but why should we check SH5 Id's? Is there anything special about them? :hmm2:
You need to be sure the SH3/4 ID's do not match the SH5 ID's.
UbiSoft has a way to figure ID's based on the part name itself. That carried over to SH5. So the possibility of duplicate ID's is high if the SH3/4 files were not worked right.
Changing the names in the SH3/4 files does not change the ID's.
Changing the names in the SH5 files WILL change the ID's as seen in Goblin.
Try it once you'll see.
:03:

Now why does this happen? Goblin reads the part name and uses hard code to assign an ID. Change one single letter of that name you get a new ID.
SH3/4 Kashmir coded the ID and it's not built on the fly like SH5. It's coded in the dat, sim, etc. So we can clone even using the same name but different ID's.
That can and has led to problems in SH3/4 which carry over to this day!
Now throw those same files at SH5 and you've duplicated the problem 3 times!

In GWX 3 we had a texture problem. We solved it by renaming duplicate textures and insuring they had different ID's.

gap

09-12-19, 04:37 PM

Well, second arm of the launcher has appeared, but still both arms lack barrels on them and refuse to fire.

Okay, not a bad start after all :up:

Something I have noticed is another Id conflict between SHIII's and SHIV's barrels. Changing second arm's node Id in the SHIV YGun, has made it to appear at last. Now you should do the same with the two barrel nodes: change the Id of barrel node #360 from '0xa03a7868d6dc1aba' to '0xa03a7868d6dc1abc' and the Id of node #363 from '0xa03a7868d6dc1ab9' to '0xa03a7868d6dc1ab9'. That should, at least, make the two barrels to show up in game.

Let me know if it works.

gap

09-12-19, 04:41 PM

You need to be sure the SH3/4 ID's do not match the SH5 ID's.
UbiSoft has a way to figure ID's based on the part name itself. That carried over to SH5. So the possibility of duplicate ID's is high if the SH3/4 files were not worked right.
Changing the names in the SH3/4 files does not change the ID's.
Changing the names in the SH5 files WILL change the ID's as seen in Goblin.
Try it once you'll see.
:03:

Now why does this happen? Goblin reads the part name and uses hard code to assign an ID. Change one single letter of that name you get a new ID.
SH3/4 Kashmir coded the ID and it's not built on the fly like SH5. It's coded in the dat, sim, etc. So we can clone even using the same name but different ID's.
That can and has led to problems in SH3/4 which carry over to this day!
Now throw those same files at SH5 and you've duplicated the problem 3 times!

In GWX 3 we had a texture problem. We solved it by renaming duplicate textures and insuring they had different ID's.

I got you now :up:

At first, I thought you were suggesting to use of certain Id's, hardcoded in SH5 for use with DC throwers ...

Jeff-Groves

09-12-19, 04:41 PM

Your getting better.
:03:
Now you see the problems I saw with just a glance.
Remember. My main roll is to teach what I have learned so you will be the teacher.
:)

gap

09-12-19, 04:54 PM

Your getting better.
:03:
Now you see the problems I saw with just a glance.

Me overlooking some of them at first glance, does not involve me not being able to see the rest of them after the second glance... and we can't exclude that a third glance will disclose to me, maybe to us, yet another bunch of problems lol :O::D

Remember. My main roll is to teach what I have learned so you will be the teacher.
:)

Good point :up:

Jeff-Groves

09-12-19, 05:04 PM

Me overlooking some of them at first glance, does not involve me not being able to see the rest of them after the second glance... and we can't exclude that a third glance will disclose to me, maybe to us, yet another bunch of problems lol :O::D

Not trying to dissuade you but I can see all the possible problems.
:03:
That came from years of working with the files. So time put in gives me a heads up on what to watch for.
:up:

For example. I have seen the W01 problem in the past. Did you know that showed up in SH3 years ago on a Von Dos Unit?

By the way. Have you checked the Film Makers Open Bunker I posted up awhile ago?

kapuhy

09-12-19, 05:22 PM

Let me know if it works.

It does. Thanks!

https://i.imgur.com/8J4W9uj.jpg

gap

09-12-19, 05:35 PM

Not trying to dissuade you but I can see all the possible problems.
:03:
That came from years of working with the files. So time put in gives me a heads up on what to watch for.
:up:

I must be honest: my first bet was for wrong node naming :)

For example. I have seen the W01 problem in the past. Did you know that showed up in SH3 years ago on a Von Dos Unit?

Do you mean the problem that armaments don't show up if they are placed on a W# equipment node? I first learned about that kind of problem from this thread. I think at some point kapuhy managed fixing it, but I am curious to know how.

By the way. Have you checked the Film Makers Open Bunker I posted up awhile ago?

No, where can I find it?

It does. Thanks!

https://i.imgur.com/8J4W9uj.jpg

Is that a big nice DC splash? :03:

Jeff-Groves

09-12-19, 05:35 PM

If helping another Modder don't feel great?
There be something wrong with ya!
:salute:

gap

09-12-19, 05:37 PM

If helping another Modder don't feel great?
There be something wrong with ya!
:salute:

I definitely agree :yep:

Jeff-Groves

09-12-19, 05:39 PM

Newest Film Makers Open Bunker.
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2621004&postcount=21

I call it Film Makers because you can roam the whole bunker!
I never tested to see if you can get on the Sub.
:har:
I mean you wanna make a film? Disable this mod then film getting on the damned Sub.
And there is a butt load of problems in the bunker itself!
I may get around to fixing them but unless it's demanded? Why waste the time?

gap

09-14-19, 12:47 PM

Newest Film Makers Open Bunker.
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2621004&postcount=21

Thank you Jeff, cool stuff indeed!

...there is a butt load of problems in the bunker itself!
I may get around to fixing them but unless it's demanded? Why waste the time?

Do you mean problems like the wokman hammering Doenitz's welding gun lol? :D

gap

09-14-19, 01:01 PM

kapuhy

09-14-19, 03:33 PM

@ kapuhy

Talking about the armament of your upcoming new unit, I have noticed that those boats came in a variety of different outfits (i.e. Sub Chaser, Torpedo Boat, Gunboat, Rescue Boat, etc). Each type differed from the other for its typical armament, though there often was an additional degree of customization from vessel to vessel.

On this topic you, the following readings might be of some use:

http://www.ww2ships.com/britain/gb-sc-001-b.shtml
http://www.navypedia.org/ships/uk/brit_c_f_fairmile_b.htm
http://www.navypedia.org/ships/canada/can_cf_fairmile_b.htm

Thanks :) I found two of those links already but missed the Canadian Navy one. And yes, this variety of possible configurations is one reason why this ship might be interesting for SH5 - with just small modifications to base 3D model and modelling some custom weapons, one can have several very different vessels added to the game.

Speaking of custom weapons, by using what I learned from you and Jeff I was able to make a functional custom Y-gun today (with just 7 reloads per barrel instead of 40 like in SH4 version, which was far too many for such a small ship) and a DC chute (also with very limited ammo). They're both very crude and not textured yet, but at least they work!

Jeff-Groves

09-14-19, 03:34 PM

Fantastic Mate!
:salute:

Jeff-Groves

09-14-19, 03:37 PM

Thank you Jeff, cool stuff indeed!

Do you mean problems like the wokman hammering Doenitz's welding gun lol? :D
That and see through walls!
:har:

gap

09-14-19, 05:46 PM

Thanks :) I found two of those links already but missed the Canadian Navy one. And yes, this variety of possible configurations is one reason why this ship might be interesting for SH5 - with just small modifications to base 3D model and modelling some custom weapons, one can have several very different vessels added to the game.

Awesome :up:

Speaking of custom weapons, by using what I learned from you and Jeff I was able to make a functional custom Y-gun today (with just 7 reloads per barrel instead of 40 like in SH4 version, which was far too many for such a small ship) and a DC chute (also with very limited ammo). They're both very crude and not textured yet, but at least they work!

You have read in my mind. Yesterday I exported Sh5's Y-gun meshes. They have a better resolution than SHIII-IV ones, though I am not fully sure about their accuracy: that model looks to me like a US K-gun minus one leg.

According to navweaps.com (http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMUS_ASW.php), there were three Y-gun models saw active service, the Marks 1, 5 and 8, the first of them being delivered in 1917. I have found a digitalized version of the Ordnance Pamphlet n. 63 (https://maritime.org/doc/destroyer/depthprojector1/index.htm) dated October 1918, covering Mark 1 of the so called Y-gun. From pictures included in that document, the Y-gun by Ubisoft brings only a vague resemblance with the real thing. Something else should be considered though: the first Fairmile B motor launch was completed in October 1940, before Y guns were rendered obsolete by the introduction of the K-gun, and it is likely that she would have fitted with a later Mark Y-gun. Unfortunately I couldn't find any picture of Marks 5 and 8, so I have no idea whether they looked more like the Mark 1 Y-gun, or like the SH5 rendition. Do you have more information on that?

One last remark: in SH games, the "saddles" that depth charges rest on when loaded on their throwers, are part of the throwers themselves, and they stay in place after the DCs have been launched. In reality, though, that plate was part of the arbor thrown together with the charges when the projector was fired. Maybe that will be clearer after seeing the pictures and reading the details explained in another OP (https://maritime.org/doc/depthcharge9/part2.htm).
The arbor itself was set so that it detached itself from its DC during the flight. I don't think we can simulate that in game, but if we set arbors as a (separate) part of Y/K-gun-thrown DC models, we can make them to become invisible once they enter the water. What do you think?

That and see through walls!
:har:

:doh:

Fixing that shouldn't be too complicated. For sure lesser complicated than giving a proper training the dumb KM worker lol...

propbeanie

09-14-19, 06:22 PM

Seems to my recollection that there are several ToobYu vidz of corvettes "throwing" depth charges with a Y-gun, and the plates you speak of do go with the charge, sometimes separating as they fly... but I do not recall if the Y-guns themselves are in the vidz. Maybe a search on "depth charge attack" or something similar might yield results?

... and, of course, they don't know what a depth charge what a hedge hog what a squid is... lol :salute:

Jeff-Groves

09-14-19, 06:27 PM

Awesome :up:

The arbor itself was set so that it detached itself from its DC during the flight. I don't think we can simulate that in game, but if we set arbors as a (separate) part of Y/K-gun-thrown DC models, we can make them to become invisible once they enter the water. What do you think?

Being the DC flight is hard coded I thought, (But never tested) if we were to add a hidden barrel with the arbor as the shell maybe we could come up with something.
:hmmm:
There are places to add animations in the sims and I'm kind of sure I'm the best Guy for Animation work bar none!
I qualify that statement from my work with animations in SH3 and SH4. I've never discussed what I can do with SH5 animations.

gap

09-14-19, 07:28 PM

Seems to my recollection that there are several ToobYu vidz of corvettes "throwing" depth charges with a Y-gun, and the plates you speak of do go with the charge, sometimes separating as they fly...

Yes, to the best of my understanding that's exactly how those arbors (= plate + hub) were meant to work. The following drawing from OP 831 is a good representation of it:

https://maritime.org/doc/destroyer/depthprojector/img/pg05.jpg

but I do not recall if the Y-guns themselves are in the vidz. Maybe a search on "depth charge attack" or something similar might yield results?

... and, of course, they don't know what a depth charge what a hedge hog what a squid is... lol :salute:

Even a picture or a drawing of a Y-gun with a caption clearly stating thrower's mark would be enough. The few pictures I have found date back to WWI, and they all are likely relative to the Mark 1. If someone else finds pictures, drawings, videos or other documents relative to other marks, please let me know here :)

Being the DC flight is hard coded I thought, (But never tested) if we were to add a hidden barrel with the arbor as the shell maybe we could come up with something.
:hmmm:
There are places to add animations in the sims and I'm kind of sure I'm the best Guy for Animation work bar none!
I qualify that statement from my work with animations in SH3 and SH4. I've never discussed what I can do with SH5 animations.

I can be wrong, but I think that, similar to shells ballistic trajectories, DCs flights are calculated in game rather than mere animations. At this point I am curious to know whether the DC barrels we see in flight are the ones stored as submodels of the Y-gun equipment or the ones specified as ammo in the KGun controller, but that's easily tested :)

Jeff-Groves

09-14-19, 09:23 PM

All trails will lead you to realize there is only the barrels for the different DC weapons.K and Y fire so you have a fire effect which is just smoke.
DC rack has an animation of the barrels rolling but nothing more.
So it's hard code that controls the toss from Y and K.
Given the rack does not play the animations till active? Maybe animations added to the Y Barrels may not play till active.
There is where we may be able to add.

gap

09-15-19, 04:24 AM

All trails will lead you to realize there is only the barrels for the different DC weapons.

So if didn't misunderstand you, 'ammo' barrels only spawn when 'dummy' barrels (i.e. the ones included in the different DC weapons as part of their 3D model) touch water, which means that the barrels we see flying in the air are the 'dummy' ones.

K and Y fire so you have a fire effect which is just smoke.

I open a parenthesis here: as shown by the following picture (firing demonstrations aboard the museum ship USS Slater), there should be an initial burst of flames too, but probably it would be so short that the naked eye would seldom notice it.

https://www.ussslater.org/tour/weapons/k-gun/images/kgun_2.jpg

DC rack has an animation of the barrels rolling but nothing more.
So it's hard code that controls the toss from Y and K.
Given the rack does not play the animations till active? Maybe animations added to the Y Barrels may not play till active.
There is where we may be able to add.

I think I got your point: animated DC barrels which separate from their arbors before they touch water :up:

Indeed, your idea is very cool and it might actually work for older SH games, but as far as SH5 is concerned there are two huge problem: unless you have made a an amazing progress with gr2 file editing we have no way to create granny animations, and the keyframe animations used in SHIII and SHIV for DC rack effects, are not triggered at the right time in SH5 but they play in an endless loop:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2621353#post2621353

kapuhy

09-15-19, 04:26 AM

Something else should be considered though: the first Fairmile B motor launch was completed in October 1940, before Y guns were rendered obsolete by the introduction of the K-gun, and it is likely that she would have fitted with a later Mark Y-gun. Unfortunately I couldn't find any picture of Marks 5 and 8, so I have no idea whether they looked more like the Mark 1 Y-gun, or like the SH5 rendition. Do you have more information on that?

Firstly, for the photos of Y-guns used on Fairmile boats (and frankly all kinds of armament used on them), check out this link:

http://www.rcnfairmiles.com/category/photographic-section/armament

Now, the description under these photos says "Y-gun Mk.III" which seem weird considering source you've posted, but it might be a mistake or different naming used by British/Canadian navies than USN.

From photos I've found, initial 1940 Fairmiles didn't seem to carry Y-guns at all. Oldest photo I came across that clearly shows Y-gun on deck is a boat launched in 1942, and photo itself might be from even later time. It's pure speculation, but my working theory is that as Y-guns were replaced in front line ships by K-guns during the war, the surplus Y-guns filling the stocks might have been gradually bolted onto coastal vessels like Fairmile. That's why my plan was to make Y-gun available from late 1941 and before that have it only carry DC chutes.

----
Apart from weapons, I encountered some other bugs to squash. Posting a list here in case you might know solutions for those :)

- Trying to add obj_Funnel controller invariably gives me CTD. So no luck adding funnel smoke for now.
- Blowing up fuel tank causes weird effect: ship is "blinking" several times (disappearing for a split second), then texture changes into incomprehensible mess with many parts transparent and others showing black "damaged" mask and a second later ship disappears.
- I noticed Y-gun to have "ASW Weapon" zone type in damage editor, does it mean weapons can be made destructible? That would be cool (imagining desperate player forced to surface and then managing to blow up DC rack with a flak gun :) )
- Water spray at bow and stern appears and disappears seemingly at random when ship goes at high speed.

gap

09-15-19, 07:05 AM

Firstly, for the photos of Y-guns used on Fairmile boats (and frankly all kinds of armament used on them), check out this link:

http://www.rcnfairmiles.com/category/photographic-section/armament

Now, the description under these photos says "Y-gun Mk.III" which seem weird considering source you've posted, but it might be a mistake or different naming used by British/Canadian navies than USN.

Excellent, that's more or less the kind of pictures I was looking for!

The US naming for the different Y-gun models is: 'Depth Charge Projector', followed by the mark number and the lettering 'Y-Gun' in brackets, so the numbering is relative to all the types of DC throwers in US inventory, including Y-guns, K-guns, and a number of experimental DC launching devices that never entered service. It is likely that in commonwealth service the lettering 'Y Gun Mk III' was equivalent to the US Mark 7, i.e. the final mark of Y-Guns. If my speculation is true, from the pictures contained in your link we must conclude that the different Y-gun marks had similar external appearance, and probably similar performances as far as can be simulated in a videogame.

On a side note, the model shown below is my rendition of a Y-gun that, for my own fun, yesterday I have drafted on the base of pictures pictures, drawings and sizes found in the OP that I had linked earlier here.

https://i.imgur.com/BxHjEat.png

If you think it can be used, I will finish it and I will gladly share it with you together with various DC barrel meshes that I had modelled in the past. :)

From photos I've found, initial 1940 Fairmiles didn't seem to carry Y-guns at all. Oldest photo I came across that clearly shows Y-gun on deck is a boat launched in 1942, and photo itself might be from even later time. It's pure speculation, but my working theory is that as Y-guns were replaced in front line ships by K-guns during the war, the surplus Y-guns filling the stocks might have been gradually bolted onto coastal vessels like Fairmile. That's why my plan was to make Y-gun available from late 1941 and before that have it only carry DC chutes.

Sorry, I had not noticed that the Y-gun was a mid-war refit for Fairmiles. That considered, your speculation is perfectly plausible though it is likely that by the time K-guns entered service and Farmiles started being retrofitted with surplus Y-guns from bigger ASW vessels, older Y-gun marks had been scrapped and the most common type still in service was the Mark 7 (i.e. Mk III in Commonwealth service).

- Trying to add obj_Funnel controller invariably gives me CTD. So no luck adding funnel smoke for now.

You are probably trying to attach obj_Funnel controller to an empty node. That controller must be attached to a node/bone with a 3D model, otherwise it will crash the game

- Blowing up fuel tank causes weird effect: ship is "blinking" several times (disappearing for a split second), then texture changes into incomprehensible mess with many parts transparent and others showing black "damaged" mask and a second later ship disappears.

Dat unit textures going haywire in SH5 once the said units are damaged, is a well known problem. Try reading again the [TEC] thread that I pointed to you many times, starting from post #170 (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1654105#post1654105) for possible fixes (make sure to read several posts after that, as finding a proper fix was a gradual process). I don't know if the suggested fixes will also iron out the "blinking" problem though, this is the first time I hear about it...

- I noticed Y-gun to have "ASW Weapon" zone type in damage editor, does it mean weapons can be made destructible? That would be cool (imagining desperate player forced to surface and then managing to blow up DC rack with a flak gun :) )

Yes, you should check that the zone type you have mentioned as is 'Destructible' property set to 'Yes', in which case that equipment can be smashed out by a well aimed shell or bomb. If you assign a damage boxes to sub-parts (such as the second Y-gun arm), with some luck they can be ripped apart from the main equipment model. During my tests (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=197680), it emerged that only damage boxes are required. Collision spheres on small equipment would redundant, as they would be entirely covered by the collision spheres of the main unit.

- Water spray at bow and stern appears and disappears seemingly at random when ship goes at high speed.

Height of the bow spray node relative to the water line might play a role. Have a look into PT boat's bow spray, and try using similar settings on your unit :03:

Jeff-Groves

09-15-19, 12:40 PM

So if didn't misunderstand you, 'ammo' barrels only spawn when 'dummy' barrels (i.e. the ones included in the different DC weapons as part of their 3D model) touch water, which means that the barrels we see flying in the air are the 'dummy' ones.

I open a parenthesis here: as shown by the following picture (firing demonstrations aboard the museum ship USS Slater), there should be an initial burst of flames too, but probably it would be so short that the naked eye would seldom notice it.

https://www.ussslater.org/tour/weapons/k-gun/images/kgun_2.jpg

I think I got your point: animated DC barrels which separate from their arbors before they touch water :up:

Indeed, your idea is very cool and it might actually work for older SH games, but as far as SH5 is concerned there are two huge problem: unless you have made a an amazing progress with gr2 file editing we have no way to create granny animations, and the keyframe animations used in SHIII and SHIV for DC rack effects, are not triggered at the right time in SH5 but they play in an endless loop:

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2621353#post2621353
I'm aware of the KeyFrameAnimations problems.
Since I don't play I'll ask a question.
Do you see people being tossed off the Ships when explosions happen?

gap

09-15-19, 01:06 PM

I'm aware of the KeyFrameAnimations problems.
Since I don't play I'll ask a question.
Do you see people being tossed off the Ships when explosions happen?

mmm, not in stock game. If you mean floating dead bodies from explosions, I think that's a FX updates feature, and life boats are not explosion-related: explosions or not, they spawn when a ship is completely destroyed.

Why do you ask? :hmm2:

Jeff-Groves

09-15-19, 01:11 PM

mmm, not in stock game. If you mean floating dead bodies from explosions, I think that's a FX updates feature, and life boats are not explosion-related: explosions or not, they spawn when a ship is completely destroyed.

Why do you ask? :hmm2:

I may have to do some tests but would like to know if MeshAnimations work where keyFrameAnimations don't.
Then there's the animations as done in parts of SH4 which is a whole other ball Game.
:03:
In Materials.dat there is a Guy used to show people being thrown by explosions.
It's even in the SH5 version. (just a carry over from SH3/4 I'm sure)
But does it work in SH5 I don't know.

SH4 also has animations for people and Guns that is NOT based on SH3 MeshAnimations.
Lets call them skeletal animations.
Those as far as I know have not been tested in SH5?

I'd think the likely reason would be one can not edit the SH4 style animations with S3D.
Those animations I had a thread on which explains how they work.
Never got around to seeing if I could write an add on for S3D to allow looking at them.
I just use 010 to play with them.
Same with the GR2 animations.

gap

09-15-19, 03:18 PM

I may have to do some tests but would like to know if MeshAnimations work where keyFrameAnimations don't.
Then there's the animations as done in parts of SH4 which is a whole other ball Game.
:03:
In Materials.dat there is a Guy used to show people being thrown by explosions.
It's even in the SH5 version. (just a carry over from SH3/4 I'm sure)
But does it work in SH5 I don't know.

SH4 also has animations for people and Guns that is NOT based on SH3 MeshAnimations.
Lets call them skeletal animations.
Those as far as I know have not been tested in SH5?

I'd think the likely reason would be one can not edit the SH4 style animations with S3D.
Those animations I had a thread on which explains how they work.
Never got around to seeing if I could write an add on for S3D to allow looking at them.
I just use 010 to play with them.
Same with the GR2 animations.

Interesting stuff. I never noticed that guy, but I am pretty sure that those animations haven't been used in SH5 yet. From your description of them, they seem more similar to granny animations than to SHIII's keyframe ones, so who knows, they might work in SH5 as well as in SHIV!

Jeff-Groves

09-15-19, 03:33 PM

I do know that most of the original works used to create SH3/4 units were just re-used for SH5. It's just they were exported with Granny and not Kashmir.
Plus a little extra work here and there before export.

That is not a guess but through years of contact with many of our Dev friends.
:up:

Jeff-Groves

09-15-19, 03:39 PM

Now. If you look at animations in SH4 for say the 20mmVierling_L.dat
Then look at animations for same Gun in SH5's 20mm_vierling_GER_L.gr2

I think you know what I'm seeing. The same animation just in a different format!
Being I can understand and edit the SH4 animations it was not a far cry to work with the GR2 animations.
Not perfected the way I do that but it's only me playing with the animation system for both SH4/5

kapuhy

09-16-19, 03:02 AM

On a side note, the model shown below is my rendition of a Y-gun that, for my own fun, yesterday I have drafted on the base of pictures pictures, drawings and sizes found in the OP that I had linked earlier here.

https://i.imgur.com/BxHjEat.png

If you think it can be used, I will finish it and I will gladly share it with you together with various DC barrel meshes that I had modelled in the past. :)

Nice! I'd be happy to use it, already looks much better than current mesh :)

You are probably trying to attach obj_Funnel controller to an empty node. That controller must be attached to a node/bone with a 3D model, otherwise it will crash the game

I should have guessed, seeing that all funnels in game are separate models :) Thanks!

Height of the bow spray node relative to the water line might play a role. Have a look into PT boat's bow spray, and try using similar settings on your unit :03:

I tried setting node height from way above deck to below keel with no visible effect to the bow spray. PT boat has the same issue. So has every ship below 200 tons I checked. I suspect it might have something to do with small boats moving a lot more on waves, because all larger ships (even imported ones) have bow spray animation constantly playing.

Apart from this, I noticed another, um, spiritual issue with my ship model (it seems to also be on some other imported ships). As the ship is sinking, its soul is rising up to heaven. Seriously:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHNBPldHHt8&feature=youtu.be