Immersive techniques for the true subsimmer! [Archive]

View Full Version : Immersive techniques for the true subsimmer!

Pages : [1] 2

bstanko6

01-28-19, 03:41 PM

I have made many videos and posts regarding SH3 and I want to add to SH5. I hope this helps many newcomers to this great game.

First thing, i am about immersion. What does that mean? 100% realism, no external camera, and I attempt to apply actual WW2 rules and regulations to all U-boat situations I come across. I read the U-boat commanders guidebook, prize rules and regs, and read up on actual missions and specifications to add to that immersion.

But I have top tips of immersion to help the newcomer get started right away. Some of you will find it terrible in terms of fun, but if you want a small idea of what they did in the real boats, then try these on for size. And if anyone wants to add to this please do.

1) YOU CAN'T BRING 'EM BACK. Assume all torpedoes are heard or seen, even electric torps. If you launch a torp, you have to assume the enemy knows where you are. This means do not hang around on the surface to watch the fireworks. If you are on the surface, get your speed up and get to a new location to attack from. If you are submerged, then get to a safe depth and get away from the area you fired from.

2) ASDIC. If you hear ASDIC, it's time to go! If you hear that sound, and they are relatively close to you, get your speed up and ready to knuckle left or right. They can see you in the water, and they are coming for you. Running slow will only get you killed. Be prepared to dodge depth charges!

3) AIRPLANES. Avoid getting into a fight with a plane. I know it sounds tempting, but fighting a plane is bad in many ways. Of course the damage you incur could affect your mission, but more importantly, the plane will call in your position. And this is always bad. Just avoid it unless you have absolutely no choice.

4) THE PACT. Make a pact with yourself. Weird I know, but if you find yourself missing that juicy tanker, watching 4 torps go by without detonation, or if you were playing for several hours, and get killed because of the poor choice you made to attack that DD. LIVE WITH IT! I make a pact to "protect my boat and crew". In SH5 it is easier because they kind of have personality, and you can manage them. It may stink to start a career over, but it will teach you many lessons.

5) PERISCOPE USAGE. Get away from that periscope! You heard me! Too many guys stay on that scope for too long. Limit your scope time by a simple rule: For every km away from a target, multiple by 10 which equals the seconds you can keep your scope up! For example, if the target is 3000 meters, I keep my scope up 30 seconds and that is it. I wait any where from a minute to five minutes before I look again, unless the situation calls for more observations. Get the observations you need each time you use the scope, so your TDC solution will be ready at the final moment. If you leave your scope up too long it will be spotted. In your report message box, there is an arrow at the bottom, click that and you can select "inform of sub sighting messages". Wolfram will then inform you if you have been spotted. See separate thread below for further.

6) HYDROPHONE USE DURING ATTACK. “Follow closest sound contact” will be your best friend. Just as I mentioned about the periscope, you should be utilizing the hydrophone operator to be your eyes. If you are close to a target, the last thing you want to do is start him off zig zagging because he saw your scope. Use the hydrophone operator to give you updated positional reports. You should have updated most of your TDC solution during your scope observations. And now, when the target is right in front of you with no ability to turn off, you can pop up your scope, and take the shot!

7) SILENT RUNNING. Silent running is NOT! It does not make you invisible. It lowers chances of detection. Rigging for silent running and going all stop is the best and only way to be silent.

8) BROACHING. Attacking in daylight, submerged, with a high wind and choppy sea, can broach your bridge to the enemy. Go deep say 20 meters, and use your hydrophone operator.

9) UNDERWATER PERISCOPE USE. In SH3 there was the h.sie patch that made using your periscope impossible at above 4 knots due to vibrations. This is actually true, and so you should be slowing your boat down to four knots as well so that you can also have that realism. Plus it makes it more interesting that you have to slow down when you’re trying to cut off that tanker. According to the U-boat commanders handbook, the boat should be at slow speed, usually 2 knots, so as to not create a “wasserfahne” or wave feather which can be seen in calmer seas.

10) SURFACING. When deciding to surface, a few things should be considered: a) Approaching periscope depth slowly so as to not broach the surface on accident (this can happen if going too fast!). Always go ahead slow to insure the concealment of your U-boat. b) Using the hydrophone personally to hear contacts that your hydrophone operator will miss, and he will!. I always ask him for sound contact as I am approaching periscope depth, then take over the hydrophone once I am there. c) Properly scanning the surface for visual contacts. This means using the observation periscope during night, and attack scope at day. But if you use the attack scope at day, and the area is clear... go to the observation scope to scan the sky as well... ALWAYS SCAN THE SKY!!! Once it is determined safe, you can surface, but with speed! Always surface and submerge with ample speed to get the process done quickly, then proceed on your travel speed.

11) PROFILE. Per the U-boat commander's handbook... Never leave the periscope up while on surface, or surfacing as this breaks the low profile of the U-boat.

12) DEPTH SETTING. Do not forget proper torpedo depth settings. Depth 1 (D1) is used when you need the torpedo to be closest to the surface with chance of direct impact. Usually due to the weather being somewhat fair. D1 = Windspeed X .25. Depth 2 (D2) is used more for magnetic purposes when the weather is quite bad. D2 = Windspeed X .4. Of course every situation will dictate different depths, but for immersion, it was necessary to use the right depth to prevent premature detonations or undershots.

13) DECKS AWASH. Decks awash was very possible in WW2, and was used during the Scapa Flow attack. A good engineer could most definitely do this, so there was no question as to this being a real and viable tactic. I recommend using it during the day in your patrol zone if possible, and at night if you can get real close to your target. You are almost invisible on surface with full use of your engines, at the cost of a few knots. It is also good to use in bad weather to stabilize your boat with the disadvantage of waves blocking your view on a regular interval. In SH5 TWOS if you are submerged and go to decks awash... your hydrophone operator will still be able to hear contacts: This is not realistic, and should refrain from using it! The engine sounds would naturally drown out any hydrophone contacts, unless at full stop.

14) HARBORS. When approaching a friendly harbor, there is usually an escort going in and out. These are not there for show, they are there for you! They were mine sweepers that lead shipping in and out so to avoid mines. I use them all the time even in bad weather to get into the harbors. Try it!

15) INSTINCT. There were a lot of tools and math that was used to determine a target's speed and direction of travel. However, in many books, these commanders used instinct and basic observations to make an attack. Sometimes just following a target at a distance, matching speed and direction gave more than enough information to successfully attack a vessel.

16) RISK. Determining risk versus reward. This is hard for a subsimmer! You find a juicy tanker, it is right in front of you, but Benno tells you there are warship contacts in the area. What do you do? It is daytime, the sea is calm, which makes it easier for ASDIC to locate you! These are the toughest decisions to make. I would not attack!

17) RADIO REPORTS. Someone please help, but I believe the Germans realized at a later part of the war there radio transmissions were being tracked. If asked for a status report, I sent one no matter where I was, until mid 1941. Very few people like Otto Kretschmer refused to send these reports early in the war. Enigma was in full swing, and HF/DF was not a concern to the Germans at that time. I send them for realism. If I start getting task forces shoved down my throat, then I stop for safety of the boat.

18) SALVO SHOOTING. I do use it, but I am with Otto most days. One torpedo one ship. If the weather is bad, and I cannot get a solid solution on my target, and I want that target, I increase my odds with a salvo. It uses a lot of torps, and missing hurts even more!

19) LEAVING HARBOR. In TWOS you have the option of using just your E-motors while on surface. I do this when leaving a subpen. It was customary to do this to prevent exhaust in the pens. Plus with mines in the area you want to lessen your magnetic field. I will use this option until I am out of the harbor.

20) DIVING TESTS. During my transit to my patrol zone, commanders practiced many tests, from crash dives, to torpedo loading. I practice dive tests every 12 hours to not only "test" my men, but it breaks up the monotony of traveling to the zone, and gives me a chance to hear for contacts underwater. I set the in-game alarm for this.

21) DECK GUN. This is a topic that is commander specific. Some guys love it and some never use it. I do use the gun, when it is safe to do so. Just understand that the gun is a lengthy process to dispatch a vessel. I only use it on very small vessels, or when I have hit one with a torp and she needs further convincing to sink. I will add an SH3 post i did a few years ago on this subject.

22) NEUTRAL SHIPPING. If you come across a ship and not sure if it is neutral, treat it like a target, but get confirmation. Regulations dictated to submerge, get close to identify the ship flag. Even if the ship is neutral, scan the deck for weapons or contraband that may help the war effort. I have sunk neutrals I found suspicious. I would take the hit on my points then allow allies an advantage. If the ship is neutral and not carrying weapons, remain submerged and maintain your stealth. These ships will report your position.

23) HYDROPHONE DEPTH. Generally around 30-60 meters. This allowed full sweeps around without noise of the surface wave breaks interfering. In TWOS Benno will not hear most sound contacts at periscope depth. You can hear them, but he won't.

24) UNDERWATER TRAVEL. For safety and efficiency of hydrophones, I travel at 30m on a clear 0 wind day. I set my wind at max of 60m in the TDW options. I will travel 60m deep on those days to prevent broaching.

25) PROMOTION POINTS. There are a lot of choices when it comes to promotion points. But for the sake of realism, we have to seriously consider what points we want to give to who. I have compiled a list of promotional points hierarchy. I consider these first in priority. TWOS is my mega mod.

a) Watch crew - Dieter. Being able to see the enemy coming on the surface from far distances is always invaluable.

b) Hydrophone - Dieter/soundguy. Anything that affects the distance at which the hydrophone can pick up sounds will always help when searching for targets.

c) Damage control - Josef/Motor officer. You will find yourself in a pickle from time to time. A good damage control team will get you out of said pickle.

d) Torpedo load times - Erich/torpedoman. Finding a convoy means you need ammunition. You need a good crew to load fast in order to get as much tonnage as possible.

e) Crew to bunks - Erich/bosun. With the new Wolves of steel mod, the boatswain orders crew to bunks to use less oxygen. This means you can stay under longer in case of emergency or if you just need to.

These are of course my preference, but these particular areas need attention right away. I would leave the deck gun last for all considerations.

26) TELEPORTING TO STATION. I never do this! Being able to walk to your stations is what makes this game great. If I need Wolfram to send a report I go over to him and click the options. Feels more real, instead of clicking buttons. Besides, this game is Silent Hunter 5... not Star Trek!

27) SPEECH RECOGNITION. Awesome addition. I recommend it, and it feels real. Giving orders while doing other things. That is what captains do!

28) XO HELPING OUT. I love Manual targeting, but the commander did not do it alone. In my TWOS setup, I use the XO to identify ships, and that is about it. He will give some info about the ship AOB, speed and such, but I double check everything.

29) TIME COMPRESSION. This is one hell of a topic because everyone has an opinion. I never use TC in or out of harbor (I use it in Kiel canal). I use max 128TC while traveling. I use 32TC in patrol zone. I try try try to never use TC when attacking a target. I want feel like I earned the privilege of sinking that ship! If I must, then no more that 8. It makes the game feel more longer than it can be, and when I see that tonnage, and head back to harbor I feel great!

30) REAL NAVIGATION. TWOS offers this, and I’m a complete fan. Instead of a line followed, you get a Nav fix on your map., giving you an idea where you are headed. They are not always reliable, forcing you to double check your work. I do not use the sextant though eventually I want to learn, but the captain is too busy, which is why he had the navigator.

31) CAPTAINS BED. I believe more can be done here than just looks. When I need a break, I never pause. I go here, use my iPad especially when in patrol area, and can’t leave. I read the recognition manual here, uboat commanders handbook, or to decode Enigma messages.

32) LIGHTING. My gamma is set really low, 5-7 from the left IIRC. Reason being, I don’t believe you should be able to readily see a ship in pitch black night without a moon. So by keeping the gamma low it’s forcing the player to use appropriate lighting to compensate. I’m a nerd so I will confess, I do use a red light during the night hours of the game, and turn off the light while on the bridge. If I have to look at the Nav map and go back to the bridge, I place red goggles on while using the map so I do not lose my adjusted sight. I play mostly at night so this method works better. In day time, I just cannot see the ship until it is practically on top of me.

33) WEATHER STATION. You thought you’re just going to launch all your torpedoes and then go to Port? Think again! In most cases if you have plenty of fuel and you ran out of torpedoes, or maybe had one left, you were expected to stay in your patrol zone for the assigned number of weeks. You would then become a weather station for Doenitz. If you really want realism in your game, try doing this for a patrol. And now that the wolves of steel allow for weather reports, you can do this.

34) TOOLS. On my desk I have a triangle and a pad of maneuvering boards I use regularly. You can buys these online at a cheap cost. Also I have a stopwatch with a second hand I use to time my periscope use, or get a speed calculation while the in game watch is timing a torpedo run. I find real world tools come in handy.

35) CAPTAIN’S PLACE. I never travel with the NAV map up while on the bridge. Since I don’t teleport between stations, and with the ability to run into destroyers or airplanes, I prefer my captain either be at the actual nav map table in the command room or on his bed while traveling. This prevents wasted time moving from the bridge down into the sub. Plus most days the captain is not going to be on the bridge.

36) CRASH DIVE. I make it a very regular habit to check the depth underkeel. I do this at my dive tests, when doing a hydrophone check, or whenever suits best. If I have to crash dive I want to know how deep I can go before hitting bottom. If I’m diving from an airplane, I aim for 80 meters or deeper. Another good time to test depth is at the navigation map. When you move into a section of map that appears deeper or shallower, you should check. I would also like to note that I never use the depth underkeel finder when being attacked. I find this unrealistic as sending a loud noise in the water while being hunted will help the enemy locate you. It is not modeled in the game but I still pretend it does.

37) GRAMOPHONE. This skipped a lot. Growing up in the 80’s we had a record player, and that skipped if you jumped hard enough next to it. Any wind speed 10m and over I do not use the gramophone but use the radio instead. Also I never use music while doing an attack, or being attacked. This is highly unrealistic.

38) INFO FOLDER. I have in my desk a folder with several pieces of paper. Formulas to compute range, speed, and AOB. Flags of nations and when they become enemies to the Axis. A cardinal directional rose. Speed conversions. UZO range tables. I find these help especially when I’m in a situation where I don’t want to call up these forms on my computer screen such as when I’m attacking or investigating a neutral ship. I find it very cluttered to have all of these things activated on my screen when I could have it on my desk instead. In addition I have books such as the U-boat commander’s handbook, and other planning tools I’m using real world with the game. This is very immersive.

39) HEADPHONES. The ultimate immersive tool. Over the ear headphones give you an audio 3D picture of the world around you. You will be able to hear sounds of warships approaching for a depth charge run, and what direction. This can add a bit of suspense during a depth charge attack!

40) MORALE. I am a fan of the morale system used in SH5. You learn about your crew, and gives you a sense of a living boat. Talking to the crew will give them a morale boost, but you can only do this so many times during a patrol, and then you have to depend on active abilities of certain sailors to increase it. I check with my crew during dive tests, and lulls in the game. I refrain from using abilities like Olafs special meal or Bosuns crew management until I really need it, say when I make contact with a convoy, or I know I am going to be in for a long depth charge attack. Having low morale during these situations can be deadly, so respect your men, and the system.

41) COUNTER DETECTION. The U-Boat commander's handbook states that if you are detected on the surface, you are to submerge deep, and to go full speed without worry of being sound located. In other words, the DD saw you, and is heading full speed to the last location you were visually spotted. The last thing I want to do is go slow, and worry about sound. I want to get away from the location as soon as possible. I attempt to sound locate the DD by hydrophone of possible, or listen manually. When the DD is in medium range, I contemplate going silent. It should also be noted the handbook specifically states the U-Boat should be "active" at all times. Meaning you should be moving at all costs when detected to better the odds of getting away. Do not lie on the bottom waiting.

42) CONCEALMENT. According to the U-Boat commanders handbook, this is the standard which makes the boat so deadly. It needs to be maintained at all times. This means traveling underwater when in enemy waters during the day, or declining to attack, due to air coverage or escorts. As much as we want to sink ships and gain tonnage, without concealment, we risk the boat. Better to hunt another day than risknit all.

43) HUD. It doesn't matter what HUD you use. I use the SH5 enhanced but I turned off the depth gauge bar on the right, and the fuel/battery meter at the bottom. I rather get a report from the chief by clicking his icon at the bottom. When it comes to depth, I go to the command room/Hydrophone suite to get that information. The captain should not have that information at any given moment without a little work.

44) THE ATTACK RUN. At 6000m to 4000m, the captain is afforded time to make plenty of observations to compute a TDC solution. At 4000m if I have not aborted the attack, then I fully commit to it. Once committed, strict periscope discipline occurs. One more point in periscope discipline... your scope should be covered by water most of the time. It should stick out just above the surface so you can see the target in between water spray. Use the periscope profile in the upper left corner at the periscope station to assist you. While this is troublesome to see your target, this along with short raising/lowering intervals will give you a better chance at maintaining stealth.

45) OVERHAULING. Putting your U-boat in a position ahead and abeam of your target so they travel into your firing arc. In day time, the U-boat commanders handbook section 2, B, subsection 110 tells us to keep only the masts in view during the overhaul procedure to ensure invisibility. If you can see the hull of the target, you are too close!

46) OPERATIONS NEAR AIRBASES. No doubt a commander will be tasked to a patrol area near air coverage. On the nav map, if you zoom in on Britain, you will see naval and air bases. If you click on air bases, and zoom out a little, you will see a little red airplane upper left on the map from the air base you clicked. This marks the furthest point these planes can operate. This is a great opportunity to take your compass, click on the air base, the drag the compass circle to that airplane. You now have marked the air coverage visually. Now that we can see the coverage, it should be noted, the U-boat should operate underwater during the day. The chance of detection is too great in this area of the map!

I hope these tips were helpful to give you an immersive experience. I will update this with more, but I ran out of time now. Thanks.

bstanko6

01-28-19, 05:36 PM

DECK GUN GUIDE PER THE UBOAT COMMANDERS HANDBOOK

I bought a copy of the U-boat commander's handbook (UCHB), and I was surprised to see such detail in how to properly handle this weapon.

Reading over other topics in SUBSIM, I noticed a lack of deck gun rhetoric. So I was hoping to share deck gun tactics I use along with the UCHB. Besides, in the movie 'Das Boot', the "old man" tells us that torpedoes are worth 35,000 marks! Too expensive!

FIRST CONTACT: Sinking a ship with the deck gun can be a long, attention-drawing, process. I choose to use flank speed, and ALWAYS point the bow of my boat directly at the target ship! I am looking to get behind the ship, not meet it head on. This gives the merchant a slim profile that is hard to spot even in clear weather, daylight conditions. Although any attack should be at night. This is not always the case. If the ship is heading directly at you, you may need to adjust your route to the target, or simply submerge until it passes you to keep the element of surprise.

Objective: Get as close as possible as fast as possible without being seen, not paying attention to where the ship is heading. You aim to be at the stern, and slightly behind the target at the moment of attack.

EN ROUTE: As you are getting closer to your target, the deck gun crew should NOT be called up yet until around 2000 meters. You want as many eyes as possible to keep a look out for airplanes and warships that may enter your combat area. If they do show up at this great range from your target, you can safely choose to abort the attack.

Objective: While traveling, you must maintain your boat's bow-facing-to-target discipline. I usually play with the manual rudder dial to find the sweet spot that allows my boat to turn with the merchant. Early war, you scan the horizon for warships and planes, but mid to late war, you are scanning the target ship for weapons. Even though merchants can't hit the ocean with three tries, they can get lucky sometimes. No need for burials at sea.

2000 METERS: I first select the WO, then select the deck gun icon. From here I make sure the "HOLD FIRE" (the little hand picture) is selected. If you do not do this, the crew will start firing as soon as you call them to their station. Call up the deck gun and AA crew. I always do this. There is no reason not to have an AA gun ready for action. If I am 2000 meters from my target, I am not diving for an airplane now, even if I have to shoot it down myself!

Objective: To be ready for action. If the ship sees you coming, it may zig-zag, or begin firing at you. You will already be in a good firing position to take her out. If you maintain your profile on the approach, then you will worry very little about being hit by incoming fire. Just remember, if you have not been noticed, do not fire too early. We want to ensure a quick sinking. If the ship has noticed you, feel free to do as you must.

800-500 METERS: This is it, what we have been waiting for. By now you should be just behind at the stern slightly port or starboard of your target if it has not noticed you. You should be close enough to identify the nationality, and be able to hit her with a stone from your bridge. What the UCHB says we should do, is aim for the command center and give it 10 rounds! Also, at this range, it is very difficult for even the greenest crew to miss. If you can park along side a ship at this range unnoticed, you will save time, and ammo sinking any ship!

Objective: To tie the toe tag on this ship as quickly as possible. Firing 10 rounds into the command center is a bit extreme for me, as I usually give it only 5 before the bridge pops off the ship. Hitting the command center gives us an advantage. It kills any search lights the ship has, and it stops the ship from zig-zagging! In some cases, it stops the engines, as this has only happened for me once. If the ship has weapons, then forget the bridge and hit that stern gun! I usually do this manually to eliminate the chance for the enemy to hit me first, or have my crew alert her to my presence with a wildly missed shot. By staying behind the ship, it cannot broad side you with it's other guns, and you can duck left and right as it swerves to protect yourself from these said weapons.

DESTROY: Once the command deck and/or weapons are out of the picture, ALWAYS aim for the water line! This is important. Hitting the hull will destroy the ship eventually and I stress eventually. But hitting the waterline lets water into the ship and sinks her quicker. You know your hitting her right, when the deck gun is fired at the ship, the round hits the water (you see a plume of water spray), and then you see/hear an explosion from the shell onto the hull! If you ordered your crew to hit the waterline, but they only hit the hull at this close range, then you are too close, steer away. If the crew (ordered to hit the waterline) hits the water and you do not see/hear an explosion on the hull, you are too far, steer in. Understand that if the water is a bit choppy, you may be in the perfect range, and still miss the ship (it happens to the best of them!).

FINAL THOUGHT: Overall, the hardest decision a commander will make when it comes to deck gunning, is position. Anyone can fire a deck gun 5km out, but getting yourself into the position I described is in my opinion the most efficient, most damaging, and safest method. Enjoy!

"The essence of submarine warfare is the offensive! he who wants to be victorious on the sea must always attack!" - UCHB

Rwearjr

01-28-19, 05:42 PM

Thank You for sharing Bstanko!, Great info. ....May I ask what is the "in game alarm" you are referring to?
-Wayne, U-41 Wilhelmshaven 1941

bstanko6

01-28-19, 05:51 PM

In twos the stop watch has an alarm feature. You can set for every so many hours, or a specific time locally or GMT.

Rwearjr

01-28-19, 08:30 PM

TY Bstanko!, I will look closer at the stopwatch next game-time. Used the watch thousands of times and never noticed this feature.

bstanko6

01-28-19, 10:53 PM

If you place the mouse over the stopwatch near the center of the hands and then move slightly to the left or to the right and click with your left mouse button it will bring up a black box and you’ll have all kinds of options to choose from. Just be sure to enable the watch for it to work.

Fifi

01-29-19, 02:41 AM

Damn good post Bstanko6 !
Should be sticky :Kaleun_Applaud:

bstanko6

01-29-19, 02:57 AM

Thank you Fifi. Feel free to add your suggested immersion technique!

bstanko6

02-01-19, 03:26 PM

Again I hope to hear from the other captains who are hard core subsimmers, I want to know how you immerse yourself into the game. I hope i am not the only nerd in the forum!

bstanko6

02-01-19, 10:08 PM

PERISCOPE DISCIPLINE

I wanted to add to this topic a little something that most people don’t take seriously, and that’s periscope discipline. I mentioned it in the main article, but I think it something that needs to be discussed further. In my experience silent hunter five offers several ways in which your U-boat can be detected. When it comes to visual detection, you could be detected by your periscope or boat itself. If you open the Messages box options, and select “inform of sub sighted” messages, then Wolfram will give you very important info on whether your scope or boat are sighted. If this happens then one of two things will occur. If your scope is spotted you will see a message highlighted in red stating “submarine scope spotted in such and such position”. This red message is referring to you, while gray messages refer to other boats. Having your periscope spotted is not as bad as having your ship spotted. What will likely happen is an escort or task force will be sent to the location of the possible scope location. Don’t let this deter you from your attack, just know that the timer is on you. In a convoy the ship that spotted you may or may not move off course to avoid you. But that does not mean the other ships will. If you were in the middle of a convoy submerged, and decide to surface, a very interesting thing occurs. You will hear many different versions of an SOS message being displayed with red messages of your sighting. The ships will then do one of many things, ram you, zigzag, or fight you if they have guns. They will definitely report your position to nearby escorts. The point of my little tirade is that you should use periscope discipline at all times.

U-boat commanders handbook section 2 C. Preparing for the underwater attack subsection 125 - 127.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZavdmNgz9tI&feature=youtu.be

bstanko6

02-03-19, 05:15 PM

PROPER SURFACING PROCEDURE - U-Boat Commander Handbook section 2, B , 26.

When traveling for some time under water (at least one hour) and wishing to surface, the UBCH tells us to do the following:

1) A hydrophone check should be completed (preferably manual check by commander) at a safe depth, and at "sound location speed". This safety depth is listed as 20m, though I will change this according to sea state. The safe depth is to protect the boat from accidental ramming of a surface ship. The sound location speed is 4 or less knots. We want to keep the boat moving in case of an emergency crash dive is called for.

2) The boat should now go rapidly through the "danger zone" to periscope depth. The danger zone defined as the area between safety depth and periscope depth. I do caution commanders on going too fast to periscope depth. You can broach the surface with your bridge in choppy seas so use discretion.

3) A sweep of the surface with and without magnification is completed. If possible, we should utilize the obersvation scope too, and sweep the sky for planes.

4) A new depth of 9m is called (although I dont believe we can go to the bridge at this depth, so I use decks awash). The commander and one watchman go to the bridge. A sweep of the horizon is completed with binoculars (UZO).

5) When an all clear is given, the compressed air cells can be completely emptied of water, and the boat can come up to the surface.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jptl_9_0pJU&feature=youtu.be

How many of you actually do this?

bstanko6

02-05-19, 09:28 PM

PROPER DIVING PROCEDURE

1) Uneccessary personnel are ordered off the bridge. A final check of the horizon is completed by the commander. Confirmed by the watch officer. The potential for spotting a target on the surface should never be wasted.

2) A depth sounding should be made and recorded in the log. Navigator should mark the nav map with the boats current location.

3) Speed should be increased, in order to facilitate a quick travel from the surface to safety depth (20m). Once safety depth has passed, sound location speed can be ordered. Hydrophone checks should be made often while en route to desired depth.

4) The boat, all compartments, and stuffing boxes should be inspected for leaks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clAMegxbqeQ

bstanko6

02-07-19, 08:52 PM

PROPER IN TRANSIT SPEED

It should be noted that a captain is responsible for all aspects of his U-boat. This includes fuel efficiency, and the resources used along the way during the transit to his patrol zone. In silent hunter five, fuel efficiency is as easy as a button push, and should be used once the boat has left the harbor, and has reached the patrol zone.

The idea is to travel slowly to your patrol zone, have plenty of fuel for overhauling and flanking the enemy, and then getting home from patrol as soon as possible.

It should be noted that situations will arise when the captain will have to adjust speed accordingly. Weather, escorts, airplanes, and of course targets.

For full immersion, the captain must make adjustments during inclement weather. Such as when the Beaufort weather scale raises past three or four, the captain may have to increase his speed in order to cut through waves to maintain fuel efficiency. It is possible for waves to push the U-boat in such a way that it burns more fuel than necessary.

bstanko6

02-08-19, 06:00 AM

CONDITIONS FOR ATTACK per U-boat Commanders Handbook

Favorable conditions
In day time, it is most favorable to attack with the sun behind the boat, and into the eyes of an enemy watch. Making torp bubbles hard to spot at last moment. At night you want the moon in front of you so your boat appears as a gray shadow.

Sea state 2 to 3 and wind 3 to 4 are perfect when attacking windward (wind from behind your boat into the target). The causes water to go over your scope from behind, allowing you to see with less water in your lens.

Unfavorable conditions
Sea as smooth as glass. The periscope is very easy to sea in most scenarios.

Heavy swell. As mentioned before, broaching at periscope depth becomes a serious issue. Along with this, undershots and premature detonation becomes more prevalent.

Ashikaga

02-08-19, 08:42 AM

Great! You play a lot like I do. I am just annoyed at the moment with the time the loading of the deck gun takes. On original footage it goes a lot quicker. That being said, the more immersive, the better!

I also use plasticized original maps. Well, copies of original maps. With rulers and protractor and gradient arc and whiteboard markers. I also use various formulas to calculate days or weeks to any given destination. Time speed distance calculations are your friend. Also, on long stretches, switch between engines only operating one at a time.
that almost doubles your fuel economy.

Gluck ab! (yes I know that is a LW manner of speech)

bstanko6

02-08-19, 12:51 PM

Ashikaga. Turning off one of the engines. I see you can on the HUD. Is that modeled or just for show? Because I would start if so!

Fifi

02-08-19, 01:38 PM

Ashikaga. Turning off one of the engines. I see you can on the HUD. Is that modeled or just for show? Because I would start if so!

Yes in TWOS you can run only one propeller if needed :salute:

Ashikaga

02-09-19, 03:09 AM

Not just for show! Actually saves a lot of fuel even at flank speed on long distances! Though make sure that when submerged and you need hard evasive action you have them both operating!

By the way, when ordering periscope depth, do you also stand behind the ladder at the device with the schußwinkel placque? I do, saves crew moving through youbwhen they come down. No mod to have crew back away when you are near them or want to walk past them afaik.

Ah well... The only way is through. Hehehe.

bstanko6

02-10-19, 02:36 PM

Ashikaga... haha no I stand either by the Tieffenmesser gauge to watch the boat reach it’s depth or next to the fore hatch next to Emil, to watch the crew at work. I need to be supervising the diving operation. When I surface I stand between the attack map (not used while at 100% realism) and the attack periscope housing to allow Dieter and his boys room to go on watch. If I am surfacing after a long time submerged or if I believe a threat may be near, I am in the conning tower awaiting to be first on bridge to look for immediate threats!

Ashikaga

02-10-19, 03:29 PM

Haha cool!

Another thing I at times do when playing realtime is sync my in-game timepiece with real-world time. :) that is also quite handy when you need the alarm clock in real life. ;)

bstanko6

02-10-19, 03:43 PM

I do that too haha!

bstanko6

02-14-19, 05:59 PM

BRIDGE OPERATIONS

The bridge is not merely a place to view nice harbours, but to assess a tactical picture.

When I operate on the bridge, I have several responsibilities as follows:

-Departure. When departing a harbor, even when using a harbour pilot, I am surveying my surroundings. I never use TC in harbour, and ready to take control over from the pilot in case of emergency. The watch crew has one job... to seek out immediate threats. So while they search their sectors, I am searching merchant shipping we pass by, for suspicious cargo, or people. Spys are everywhere.

-In Transit. While in transit and I am on bridge, I scan the horizon as well as the clouds. I have had enemy air pass over without TC dropping to 1! If I have orders to give, I go through Dieter almost exclusively. He is my 2WO and deserves that respect. All orders to Chief, Navigator, and Radioman go through him.

-Deckgun. I try my hardest to only allow the deck crew to man this weapon. The commanders place is to be at the tower to observe shot placements. This also allows me to keep the tactical picture around me maintained, as the tower blocks your view of the stern when on deck near the deckgun.

-Marking. While on the bridge, it is a good idea to mark significant features on the navigation map, such as mines you spot in the water, enemy coastal points of interest, or even buoys that mark entry points into sounds and coves like Scapa Flow.

I try not to use TC while on bridge. If a plane comes out of nowhere, you still have to get off bridge before you can dive. I suggest you do not go onto the bridge unless necessary, but while you are on the bridge, be of good use and do proper watch standing.

Watch standing was a serious post. The transit to and from a patrol zone can be boring, but it can present threats and concerns your watch crew are not aware of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94HhBFeuSQ

bstanko6

02-19-19, 03:31 PM

EXTREME TC

I just spoke with someone about this, and if you are not a true subsimmer, then disregard.

This is a method of game play only the true virtual sailor could manage.

Extreme TC is a method where you play in real time, but leap frog, as time passes when you are not playing. I will explain:

There are 2 ways.

Method 1)
Play the game in real time as of today's date.

So I am writing this article on February 19 2019. I begin a game of SH5 in the beginning which I believe starts in August of 39'.

I will TC up to Feb 19 40' at whatever time of day it is in real life, and then not TC any more. I will play TC1 until I save my game and end it.

Then say 24 hours of real time go by that I do not play.

I start my game, and I can now TC up to 24 hours and catch up to the date, and time of day.

Method 2)
Same thing as above, but instead of TC up to real life today's date, grab a digital watch, set it to the in game date, or write the in game date and time down on paper if you are lame!

Time goes by when not playing...

I call this a “Time Bank”. Every second you don’t play, adds to your bank. The longer you don’t play, the more time you get.

Then, using your Time Bank, TC up to the watch date and time, and have fun.

This is an extremely slower way to play, but it has benefits!

It really makes you think about your decisions before acting on them. With the regular game, and using TC, we care less about what we do in game, because we just TC everywhere and deal with "scenarios" as they befall us.

But with this method, we invest our actual time into it, and the game becomes more a campaign, than a game. All the boring in game TC1 hours we invest become more exciting when that ship finally comes into our view!

Diving to perform hydrophone searches will become interesting moments instead of necessary evils.

Plus, you will find yourself using smaller TC to catch up! And this is good for the game weather changes and campaign progressions.

IN PORT
Also, to really drive home the TC method. When you return to port, and get your new orders... Start your game, and while in the pen on the bridge, record your new date. Save your game without leaving the pen, turn off your game, and go on leave. Do not start this game until that date! Talk about serious immersive gameplay! This is great and allows me to catch up with other games, and my family LOL!

CONSOLATION PRIZE
If I lose my boat playing this method. I use siletotto cheat and advance to the next campaign. It’s a gift for playing this way, and it allows me to move up in the game, without feeling bad about using the cheat.

Give it a try! Tell me how you like it!

bstanko6

02-20-19, 01:38 AM

ALL PROPER U-BOAT NUMBERS

This is a website that gives you all the actual commissioned U-Boat numbers for their type. Just select type 7A, B, C, and look to see what numbers are available for your type boat.

https://www.uboat.net/types/

kapuhy

02-21-19, 04:13 AM

Übung ist das halbe Leben:

If you are playing TWOS, you can change crew reaction time for crash dive command with OFEV. Set it for longer than default at first (you have a green crew after all) and perform regular crash dive drills. After a number of exercises, shorten reaction time by a bit, but only if you keep regular drills. Add some time after every port leave - the crew needs to get back in form!

bstanko6

02-21-19, 05:03 AM

@kapuhy...

Nice addition to this thread friend. I did not think about that!

bstanko6

02-22-19, 01:05 AM

MERCHANTS ABILITY TO SPOT YOUR PERISCOPE

Yes, I do believe they are a little too good at the beginning of the war. Easy fix. Go to your radio messages. There is a down pointing triangle. Press that, and you will see your radio messages options. Also, you will see a number 4000 which represents how far away a merchant can spot your scope. Change that number to your needs. You can also change this number in the options selector.

If you are a true subsimmer, you have to be fair:
1939-1940 you can set this to about 2000m. This is more realistic as the war begins.

1941 to beyond, it should be set to 4000m and no more. 4000m was a standard for training in Reich academies that periscope discipline would begin.

You should still practice periscope discipline at 4000m regardless the year.

derstosstrupp

02-24-19, 11:23 AM

I’m always in full support of threads like this! Shameless plug for my methods in my signature, written In the same spirit as this – the pursuit of realism!

Good work on this thread!

bstanko6

02-24-19, 12:58 PM

@derstosstrup...
Thanks friend! To all who visit this thread, I encourage you to leave your realism tips, tricks, and hints!

These are just ways I play the game. I'm always looking for more ways!

bstanko6

02-24-19, 01:30 PM

KEEPING A REAL SHIP JOURNAL

Ok, now I am revealing to you all the nerd I am. I keep a physical log next to me. I mark extreme events, and points of interest. I then add these to the in-game ship log later.

Keeping this log has a benefit:
It adds the element of commitment in my actions. I'm physically writing down what I intend to do, then I do it. It adds immersion, and a time stamp for later review. Even if you just use a physical log just for special missions, you will enjoy reading it over again.

Things I add:
Enigma messages
Contact reports
Special radio reports
Mine locations
Intentions to attack shipping
Drills
Equipment checks
Weather reports
Extreme circumstances like crash dives.

kapuhy

02-24-19, 05:22 PM

You might know this site already, but just in case - and in case anyone else considers keeping a real ship journal fun - uboatarchive.net has a collection of original u-boat logs translated to English.

bstanko6

02-24-19, 06:15 PM

PROPER KTB EXAMPLES FOR SHIP JOURNAL ENTRIES

Thank you kapuhy sir!

http://www.uboatarchive.net

bstanko6

02-24-19, 11:50 PM

BATTLE PLANS

In the first example in the first post of this thread I talked about commanders watching their torps slam into ships without after action. This is not realism in any sense.

Making an attack on a ship or convoy, is just a small part of a battle plan.

A good commander's battle plan should include the following:

A) Interception. We all know this, and we all practice different methods to do it. However, our goal is the same... to calculate a solution to intercept a ship and set up an attack run.

B) Attack. Loose our eels on our prey, and hope for a sinking.

The part people are confused about...

C) Disengagement. Literally, as soon as the torps are released, we need to disengage. We need to get out of the area we fired from. I always assume the bad guys hear and see my torps and know exactly where I am. I then roll my diesels to get to a new area, flood tanks and hit the bottom, do a 180deg turn to fire my rear torp. Something... anything but sit there at the "crime scene" and let escorts roll over me.

D) Overtake. Get my U-Boat back to the ideal position, forward and abeam of my target.

E) Re-engage.

kapuhy

02-25-19, 04:13 AM

do a 360deg turn to fire my rear torp.

Ahem.... you might want to check your calculations again Herr Kaleun :)

bstanko6

02-25-19, 11:28 AM

Haha at least I did something! Glad to see people are paying attention better than the captain!
Changing now!

bstanko6

02-27-19, 03:33 AM

USING REAL NAVIGATION

I really love this implementation into SH5.

When I play, especially when traveling a long distance, I keep my map updated with a half hour mark.

I set my clock for a continuous 30 minute timer. I mark the map with the navigation pencil. I do this for the sake of several reasons:

A) in case of an air attack or extraordinary event, the mark tells me the time of the event, then I can record it in my logbook later.

B) in case of a ship/convoy sighting, I now have a relatively recent mark that I can use for painting a tactical picture.

C) helps near land at night when it is difficult to pinpoint where you are.

I believe the options allow you to change how often the navigator makes a mark, but I’d rather do it myself for sake of having something to do, and keep my eye on the map!

Here is my alarm clock mod I use, in case you want to set your alarm more often. The original is loud and annoying, this one is better!

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=5434

bstanko6

02-27-19, 05:46 PM

MANUAL TARGETING SCHOOL

Every video I have made in my youtube channel. Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPbeCJWfhugaTCHwW2NArCA

bstanko6

03-01-19, 04:18 AM

RADIO USAGE

Thank you to Mussalo, I was able to confirm this.

If you are using the radio to listen to music, there is a thing you should know... it only works at max 110km from land.

Turn it off boys. Along with the gramophone if the waves hit 10 m/s. It’s a long silent trip!

bstanko6

03-07-19, 12:19 AM

HARBOR NAVIGATION

SH5 and TWoS did great things for harbors. One of them, is marking up harbors! Kiel at night is brilliant, and has marker buoys everywhere! But what does it all mean?

Proper harbor navigation is a skill that must be mastered by every U-boat commander.

No Wake.
No wake does not mean you can’t go fast. It just means you have to go fast enough to be able to maintain steerage of your vessel, but slow enough to not create waves, causing moored ships to slap off warfs. Going too fast will definitely wind you up in Doenitz office!

Port Side Passage.
By rules of the nautical Road, ships are to pass on the port side of each other. Now this does not mean for you to go across the harbor in order to pass on the port side of a boat. If the ship is far away enough where you can safely pass it on the starboard side you can. But if one ship approaching you is close enough where you have to slow your speed down, then you should pass on the port side of said ship.

Buoys.
“RED! RIGHT! RETURN!”
Red buoys should be on your starboard side as you return to port. Green on your left as you depart. Easy!

When passing canal entry ways, such as the Kaiser Wilhelm/Kiel entry, boat speeds should be low. It’s technically a lock but it is not modeled. You would have to stop to allow it to fill.

abaileyatd

03-07-19, 11:08 AM

Hey BStanko,

Do you know if the AI ships in TWOS follow the "port side passage" rule? I wonder how they would behave if you attempted this at close range?

Also, for the harbor lights, according to the charts in TWOS green is on port when leaving and starboard when returning? And vice versa for red? Maybe I'm confused (probable!) or you mistyped? Also good to note is that they make noise (two distinct and different bell tones it appears for red and green) so in heavy fog you should still be able to navigate if you are very methodical. I'd also add that there can be white buoys that are typically used to mark shallow waters and land.

One last thing is the locations of lighthouses- which are noted on the harbor charts and can help guide you to your bouys and other landmarks when approaching from a long distance.

Love the videos btw!

bstanko6

03-07-19, 11:28 AM

@abaileyatd...

Awesome thank you for your addition. Yes there are the white buoys we need to stay away from when navigating and yes they have bell tones.

As far as lighthouses and light ships I was going to save those for a coastal navigation video I was going to make. But yes they are navigation points.

You did make a great point, I can’t remember if this is all ports but I do know Wilhelmshaven is wrong in the lights. It’s back wards! The red buoys should be switched with the green ones! I did not think of that but you are right.

And no the AI ships are basically scripted and do their own thing. Which is why commanders should be on the bridge when navigating harbors even with harbor pilot activated. I don’t know how many times I had to break hard to port/starboard because of this. Thank you!

Maybe all of the commanders here at subsim could chime in and tell us if the harbor buoys are wrong in different ports?

abaileyatd

03-07-19, 12:05 PM

Next time I'm in game I'll take a look at the rest of the charts, I know Wilhelmshaven is for sure the way described.

bstanko6

03-09-19, 12:45 AM

After watching the traffic in Wilhelmshaven even though the buoys are backwards, the ships still follow Red Right Return.

Small fishing boats do not seem to be following the rule.

les green01

03-09-19, 05:39 PM

very nice read i decided to reinstall after a few years away glad to find people that likes to play like i do

bstanko6

03-09-19, 05:45 PM

@les green01...
Glad you like my boring tirades! Welcome back and Have fun.

Tonci87

03-12-19, 08:21 AM

Another, often overlooked thing if you want to play realistic:

Use G7e Torpedoes
The U Boats mostly used electric torpedoes, since it was believed that the disadvantages of slower speed and lower range are outweighed by the Torp not leaving a line of bubbles on the surface that points straight back to the sub.
I keep a few steam torps on board but try to use them only at nighttime.
Also, electrical torpedoes could not be stored in the external reserves, since they require constant maintenance. Therefore you should always load Steam torpedoes into those.

BTW, Bstanko, what UI Mod are you using?

Could you make a video on how to do a proper night time surface attack?
I do not know how to get the range to target with the UZO

bstanko6

03-12-19, 12:02 PM

@Tonci...
Thanks for that about the electric.

I'm using SH5 Enhanced. I turned off most of the hud for immersion through the options selector.

Now I have to get my depth from command room gauges. I use speech recognition so I dont need the dive buttons on the left. If I want to know fuel or battery levels, I get a report from the chief icon. My heading bar at the bottom is set to closed so if I need to see where My boat is going I just click it open, there were several compasses in the boat, so I would believe getting a heading was easy for a captain.

Also my TDC dials are set to off in the scope. I open them only when needed.

Tonci87

03-12-19, 02:13 PM

bstanko6

03-12-19, 02:46 PM

It’s emtgulfs “periscope rework v1.7” you also need the aspect ratio mod to go with it. Both located in downloads.

bstanko6

03-21-19, 01:52 PM

GUESSTIMATIONS, AND WHY THEY ARE IMPORTANT

You are on the surface during a clear beautiful day.

Your watch officers yells down that smoke is on the horizon. You ask for the range and he tells you 12km.

After making a quick observations, the ship is a gray blob, which you cannot identify, making out an AOB, or even speed impossible.

You know you have to dive, or risk it seeing you and zig zag away.

Once we dive we are presented with new issues. First, no watch officer to give a range!

The target is currently headed towards you, and will eventually be in a position where you cannot attack it because of our slow speed. So you have to act quick in preparation.

Hydrophone tracking is not ideal because we can see the target. The periscope is more accurate.

We need to plot the ship to define it's course, determine an attack angle, prepare the attack run, and most importantly... know when we are too close.

Guesstimate! That's right. We watch a lot of videos, and read tutorials that always show a nav map that looks more like a chalkboard in Albert Einsteins office.

We do not need this. That stress is overrated and you can do more with less.

Pick a mast height. Most freighters average a 26-32 meter mast height. I usually choose 30 because it is an easier number for mental math. While the range of the ship may be off, it will be off consistently enough to plot a course on the map with a 4 bearing method. With this information, we can set an attack angle.

Pick a speed. Once underwater, our hydrophone operator gives us a lot of information! He tells us if the ship is slow, medium, or fast speed.

When you press E and bring up your speed table, at the top it labels as example: Slow speed is as high as 8 knots. Pick 8 knots and use that as a way of charting your target. I always pick the highest knot in whatever speed the hydrophone operator calls out. I would rather plot a faster ship (which is actually slow) and get my boat in position early, than plot a slow ship (actually fast), and ruin a chance to attack it because it passed me by.

Pre-set your AOB. regardless of what direction the ship is going, or it's AOB, I set up for a fast 90 or 45 degree attack. I then make adjustments as I get closer.

Why is guesstimation important? If you read any book the Aces, they all had one thing in common... They eliminated error from their solutions! They approached very close to their targets. But more importantly, we are setting our boat up for an attack early. When the ship gets in range to identify, we can then make more subtle adjustments without going crazy!

John Pancoast

03-21-19, 02:47 PM

bstanko6

03-21-19, 04:03 PM

bstanko6

03-21-19, 04:07 PM

One of my favorite commanders was Peter Cremer of U-333.

Badly damaged, he lost his UZO pedestal, both periscopes, and a TDC locked into place only allowing a weird gyro angle.

He went on to attack and sink several more ships in operation drumbeat by taping binoculars on the mangled bridge.

He had to guesstimate everything!

John Pancoast

03-21-19, 04:20 PM

@John Pancoast...
Thank you. I love the fact so many new people are getting into this game. But with so many videos and techniques, it can be overwhelming to set up an attack run.

I swear I thought I saw someone computing calculus during a run once!

It’s not complicated once we establish a consistent procedure.

Don’t over think it!

Yep. Besides, the point of an attack at least convoy-wise, should be as little time as possible in the convoy's and escorts presence. Besides it's simplicity, that's why I like to eyeball speed and aob; it's quick.
Hard to be quick if one is doing Einstein's chalkboard besides the fact that in real life, more than one person would be involved.

John Pancoast

03-21-19, 04:28 PM

rmax

04-01-19, 10:34 AM

This is a great thread. Thanks for all the tips and points on immersion. I was in U-32 off the coast of the UK at night. My wife comes into the room where I have a blanket over my head as I could see nothing as it was overcast. I'm sure she thought I was watching p*rn or something.

I now have a note book where I do my target solution calculations. I find that helps a lot. I don't know about immersion but it helps immensely as the ranges and bearing called to the XO don't go into the event log.

I have written various programmes that test my ability to calculate True bearing from relative bearing + heading.

On scopes, I keep the scope up for a minimum amount of time.

I also use OpenSeaMap to plot course. Not realistic, but I don't have a set of charts available.

After the separate thread on CelNav, I might try and do that again... but I do love Real Navigation. First time I played WoS and made it to Kiel it was an accomplishment in itself!

One thing that really helped me (and I am still quite a noobie I think) is someone once posted a comment saying that you had to *think* like a U-Boat commander. Once I made that transition it has become much easier: being cunning, taking careful risks, thinking about the where ships are going etc.

bstanko6

04-01-19, 11:15 AM

I’m glad this thread helped! Being an immersion player I go to great lengths to gain realism. I even use a very good REAL mechanical stop watch! Forces me to not use TC during an attack since doing so renders the watch useless!

These techniques make torpedoing that ship just a little more worth it.

Have fun!

Lanzfeld

04-25-19, 03:38 PM

Bstanko6,

I tried your saving method where you delete the auto save and then save my game progress. And then I hit continue career but all of my navigational marks are not saved like you were talking about. Am I doing something wrong?

bstanko6

04-25-19, 06:02 PM

Lanzfeld... do you have Wolves of Steel? It works for me. It may act differently non the version you have.

I have TWoS 2.2.12.

Lanzfeld

04-25-19, 06:48 PM

Yes I have the latest version of wolves of steel. I continue my campaign after deleting the auto save and saving my current progress and when i launch the game none of my navigation marks are there.

Malwulf

04-25-19, 07:24 PM

Hey there,

Just wanted to hop in really quick and thank you for creating this awesome guide! For a relatively new SH5-TWoS captain your post was both very informative and genuinely entertaining to read.

Thanks again!

bstanko6

04-25-19, 09:49 PM

@Lanzfeld... did you set up a journal in the main menu? You have to click on this, and name a journal. If you did this and still have trouble, I'm afraid I cannot help friend.

@Malwulf... glad you like it. I want to pass all I know to others, and it makes it worth while hearing comments like yours.

Lanzfeld

04-26-19, 04:00 AM

No....no journal.

Didn’t read anything about that. Ok.....I’ll try it.

Edit..... i’m starting to remember something long ago about a journal.

P.S. also may I ask you how you modify the bad weather to give higher wind speeds?

Thanks

bstanko6

04-26-19, 08:04 AM

@Lanzfeld...

If you did not set up journal you will NOT record anything.

You can activate patches to get it. Go into your c:/Silent Hunter 5 and look for your patches file (I can't remember what it's called. I am not home) and activate it.

Lanzfeld

04-26-19, 08:28 AM

OK I’ll check another journal thank you.

I hate to bother you again but could you please give me a step-by-step about increasing the wind speed? I see nothing that says patches.

bstanko6

04-26-19, 09:43 AM

It’s in a patch. It’s the only way to increase it. The patch allows wind speeds of 60 m/s!

Tonci87

04-26-19, 09:49 AM

It’s in a patch. It’s the only way to increase it. The patch allows wind speeds of 60 m/s!

Does that actually do anything though?
I do not think that you get higher waves, so what exactly is different with wind speed 60m/s if you compare it to wind speed 15 m/s?

bstanko6

04-26-19, 10:18 AM

Not sure. Never played without it, but your torpedo depth settings and percentage of premature detonations will change significantly!

Lanzfeld

04-26-19, 11:10 AM

“It’s in a patch”

Hmmmmm........very vague.

Your secret is secure!

Tonci87

04-26-19, 11:20 AM

“It’s in a patch”

Hmmmmm........very vague.

Your secret is secure!

Open generic patcher and look into the second entry. TDW_EnvSim_Patch.s5p

vdr1981

04-26-19, 11:27 AM

Does that actually do anything though?
I do not think that you get higher waves, so what exactly is different with wind speed 60m/s if you compare it to wind speed 15 m/s?

The patch is useless and it's name is misleading. It doesn't do anything special with weather engine and enabling it will actually have the opposite effect in game-always calm seas... You are free to test it though. :yep:

Tonci87

04-26-19, 11:31 AM

The patch is useless and it's name is misleading. It doesn't do anything special with weather engine and enabling it will actually have the opposite effect in game-always calm seas... You are free to test it though. :yep:

Yeah, I thought that it didn´t really do anything since the weather in SH5 can not visually get any worse than it does currently with 15m/s. Which is a shame really since it would be kind of amazing to get into a proper storm sometimes :D. We would have to create new sea states though, and I think that is impossible since that stuff is hardcoded.

Lanzfeld

04-26-19, 11:32 AM

Open generic patcher and look into the second entry. TDW_EnvSim_Patch.s5p

Thank you.

You wouldn’t happen to know how I open this type of file with you?

Tonci87

04-26-19, 11:37 AM

Thank you.

You wouldn’t happen to know how I open this type of file with you?

C:\Games\Silent Hunter 5\TDW_GenericPatcher_v_1_0_168_0
GenericPatcher.exe

I hope you are using The Wolves of Steel mod.
If yes, then you should have used that tool already at least once.

Lanzfeld

04-26-19, 02:34 PM

So the real question is.......does a wind speed of 60 m/s effect the torpedos any worse than 15 m/s IN THE GAME?

bstanko6

04-26-19, 02:36 PM

Unsure. I haven’t tested enough. But if it does and for sake of immersion, the depth setting would be too low for any logical attack. If it’s a patch I would believe it would be in effect.

Tonci87

04-26-19, 03:47 PM

Well you see, the guy who created the generic patcher created some of those patches simply because he could, and also in the hope that they might become useful in the future.

I see it like this. The game can only display 15m/s waves. If the patch does something to decrease the safe torpedo depth at higher wind speeds, then at a 60m/s wind speed I would be having premature explosions while looking at 15m/s waves. That would ruin my immersion a bit.
This is why I´m not using that patch.

Lanzfeld

04-26-19, 03:59 PM

But....

If 60 m/s DOES effect the reliability then I wouldn’t be launching any torpedos at ships in 60 m/s winds when I definitely would be in 15 m/s wind.

A ship with a 7 meter draft is a sure target at 15 m/s but at 60 m/s it is NOT according to the formulas.

I don’t really care about the graphics of it all.

This might need testing.

bstanko6

04-26-19, 06:44 PM

As turbulent as the North Atlantic is, I do use the patch and yes, as hard as it may be, I leave ships alone for immersion!

bstanko6

04-26-19, 10:05 PM

Breaking the Fortress

This is an awesome mission. I have done it too many times to count in SH3 and 5.

I will advise those of you who are willing to play this mission through SH5, using the utmost immersive detail possible, the way Prien did it. Consider me your mission advisor for the Scapa Flow attack!

DO NOT GO FURTHER IF YOU WISH TO TRY THE MISSION WITHOUT ASSISTANCE!

On October 8 1939 at 1100 hours Prien left Kiel for his mission. Of course, we cannot always decide when we can undertake this mission, but this is Prien's date.

He never attacked a single ship on his route to Scapa. His mission was to avoid contact at all costs with any aircraft or ship, friend or enemy. His need for secrecy was of utmost importance. The boat was grounded during daylight hours, and only surfaced and moved at night.

For immersion purposes, I do not attack ships while en route to Scapa, I remain radio silent the whole way there, and dive at dawn.

There are 3 entrances to Scapa; Holm Sound, Hoy Sound, and Hoxa Sound. You must consider the options before choosing though: Holm is located East, is least guarded, but is lined with mines and 2 coastal batteries, and several block ships, making this the most intense route in. Hoy is located at the furthest West, placing your U-Boat in a shipping lane as you go around the Flow to get there with more chances on being spotted, and is used by green destroyer crews for navigational training. This may put the most cunning U-Boat commander to the test to keep his boat quiet. Finally, Hoxa Sound is South, and is a highway of Royal Navy warships. It would take a pretty serious commander, with ice in his blood to navigate here!

Prien, along with Grossadmiral Doenitz carefully planned this mission for 2 weeks. It was Doenitz one chance to show Hitler, that U-Boat warfare was the only way to win this war. Prien had chosen Holm Sound. Reconnaissance photos were poor due to English weather, and the Holm Sound blockships were not readily seen until Prien saw them personally the night he entered.

Holm Sound mines and coastal batteries in SH5 are not mentioned by Prien in his KTB logs. I usually go the path of immersion and enter here. I use my obs scope underwater to look for mines. I asked my grandfather a while back if it was possible to see these mines underwater. Being a Chief in the USN pig boats, he advised me "mines are conspicuous things in the water. If you are shallow enough, and the moon is bright enough, it's possible." Now he was a radioman, but I take his word any day. So I use my scope underwater without fear of breaking immersion.

Prien enters Scapa, does several rounds in the Flow identifying his target, the Renown Battlecruiser. Prien notices a car with its headlights on, shining at him. It then turns away and takes off at high speed. Not knowing if he had been spotted, Prien assumes he is on a clock, and needs to get his work done.

Scapa Flow is basically dead once you are in. Most of the warships inside are "asleep" and will let you freely skim around at your own free will. However, there are 2 battleships inside. The Renown is one, and if you hit one, over time the other will come to life and fire upon you. There are some destroyers that will make their way in as well. Do the deed, and get out!

As he made his way out of the Flow through Holm Sound at approximately 0215 hours, he bottomed the boat for the rest of the morning until next sunset. He heard depth charge explosions and engines racing about all day and night.

When you make the trek out of Scapa, I do notice a bit more heavy traffic just East of here. I bottom the boat as well, and take a safer approach to travel at night. It is a long game to play like this but it sure feels good to get that battleship!

Hope you enjoy the mission. My source was google, and u-boat archive.com.

Lanzfeld

04-28-19, 02:42 PM

Maybe someone can do a simple test. I am not home so I cannot do it myself.

Somebody that has 60 m/s wind activated in the game (and actually experiencing that) can try shooting a bunch of torpedoes at 15 m depth. (.25 * 60) and see if there is a large failure rate (45%?) or if the game is treating it like 15 m/s wind and you have a 15%? Failure rate.

Would love to know if it’s implemented

DieReeperbahn

05-03-19, 08:16 AM

XenonSurf

05-03-19, 10:38 AM

TDW Generic Patcher (last version 168):
A lot of people here think this is just a mod, but it's far from that.

From its readme notes, the TDW Generic Patcher has been done to patch the most horrendous malfunctions in SH5 and to make the game ready for modding. It should not be changed by any means, rather use separate mods if you want to achieve something special (like higher wind speeds, more performing deck guns, torpedo behavior etc.). Essentially, the values set in this Generic Patcher may not be those you like, but they are those which will make the game work correctly.
Everyone ever wondering what flaws are in the stockgame 1.2 should read the entire patcher readme (v.168) to know.

You can do some changes in it however, like enabling the intro sequence or such stuff, but why should you...Keep it well as it is and don't mess with it :yep:

@Lanzfeld,
for the journal you need or TWoS installed or a modlist with the NewUIs 7_5_0 which contains the journal stuff. What you do: you save the journal in-game with a name and reload it each time you load a save. That's it, it will save messages, supermaks and navigation fixes. Destroyed shipmarks are sometimes saved but these are broken, even in WoS.

Lanzfeld

05-03-19, 03:09 PM

Thank you XenonSurf. I did figure this out. Even the destroyed ship marks bug.

bstanko6

05-06-19, 04:29 PM

Warning! Extreme Nerdery ahead... you’ve been warned!

https://youtu.be/BZhhAZfcSa0

Markus Witt

05-06-19, 05:35 PM

bstanko6

05-06-19, 06:54 PM

Where did you get the grid map?

John Pancoast

05-06-19, 08:32 PM

Where did you get the grid map?

Looks like the AOD map.

Markus Witt

05-07-19, 02:12 AM

Where did you get the grid map?

You can find it in the download section.:up:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=4833

Markus Witt

05-07-19, 02:24 AM

Here is a sample page of the log I kept. It's just an Excel sheet but unfortunately the file is too large to post. I can recommend to keep your own log. It's a bit of work but it slows the game down and adds to the immersion.

Markus Witt

05-07-19, 03:09 AM

I just completed a patrol in TWOS. During this patrol I kept a log in the style of the real logbooks used and I tracked my progress on a gridmap.
It's a bit of work but quite good for the immersion. It slows the game down and it makes you think twice before making any decisions because of the work you put into it. Can't post the log as the file is too big.

Found that I can copy / paste the text and it is still readable. I opened a separate thread to post the log for anybody who is interested.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=241063

bstanko6

05-08-19, 02:28 PM

Top 6 mistakes a U-Boat Commander will make... and I have done it myself!

6) Treating the U-Boat like a sniper. It's not. It's an assasin. Commanders need to get close and personal to their prey. That was how the U-Boat was designed. Getting close eliminates the error in calculations.

5) Thinking you’re invisible when you’re underwater. You’re not invisible, your chances of being detected or just lowered.

4) When a plane is spotted, your first instinct is to get to the fLAK gun instead of diving.

3) In daytime hours, when a ship is spotted, you don’t go to periscope depth immediately. This should be your first instinct.

2) Checking your TDC set up before you fire a torpedo. How many times have you launch the torpedo and it went the wrong direction?

1) Periscope discipline. This is the most important mistake most guys make, I even made a video on it because of it.

bstanko6

05-08-19, 02:51 PM

Crew Morale and my suggestions on it

Your crew morale is like sand in an hour glass. It will continually flow no matter what you do in the game.

You have 2 members that effect this hourglass as you play.

The Bosun maintains training and order amongst your enlisted men.

The Chef provides meals that effect your crew efficiency.

In my truest opinion, when you gain a whole lot of points, especially in the beginning of the game, you should spend those points on these two individuals to maintain crew morale throughout your patrols.

It does not matter how good your damage control team is, or how accurate your navigator is, or how fast your torpedo man loads a torpedo. If your crew is deficient because of morale issues, you will always be at a disadvantage.

The two individuals I mentioned also have active skills that will assist keeping your morale up throughout your patrol. The chef can make special meals, and the boatswains mate can maintain crew training.

You should never let your morale drop so low that these two individuals cannot refill your morale bubbles. Just keep in mind that when you use their skills they will be unavailable for several days. Use them before your morale drop so low, but use them often!

Tonci87

05-08-19, 03:21 PM

Top 5 mistakes a U-Boat Commander will make... and I have done it myself!

5) Thinking you’re invisible when you’re underwater. You’re not invisible, your chances of being detected or just lowered.

4) When a plane is spotted, your first instinct is to get to the fLAK gun instead of diving.

3) In daytime hours, when a ship is spotted, you don’t go to periscope depth immediately. This should be your first instinct.

2) Checking your TDC set up before you fire a torpedo. How many times have you launch the torpedo and it went the wrong direction?

1) Periscope discipline. This is the most important mistake most guys make, I even made a video on it because of it.

This is fun, let me add some famous last words.

-The destroyer will not detect me if I am underwater with my engines turned off and on silent running.

-I am being D/Ced by a destroyer. I should never go faster than silent running to evade.

-I´m sure this merchant is unarmed!

-I will totally win a deck gun duel with this merchant!

-I can´t see any bombs on this plane...

-Crashdive! Oh crap, we are in shallow waters...

-The destroyer just over the horizon has no clue that I am here (1941, hello radar)

bstanko6

05-08-19, 03:30 PM

@Tonci...

Haha yes! I love it! Some real noob mistakes! Hey I know I did a couple of those too when I first got into SH!

Tonci87

05-08-19, 03:33 PM

@Tonci...

Haha yes! I love it! Some real noob mistakes! Hey I know I did a couple of those too when I first got into SH!

I totally did all of them, some I still do. My periscope discipline is crap

bstanko6

05-08-19, 04:50 PM

Periscope discipline comes with time...
It’s hard to do when you are trying to gather info and you are in the zone...

Last thing you want I do is put down the scope and raise it again to start over.

You have to remind yourself that all the work you are doing is worthless if the ship sees you and starts zig zagging!

bstanko6

05-09-19, 04:21 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyoGJWphjlE

Me setting up for an attack on a fast troop ship convoy. I chose a spread shot due to the weather and speed of the targets. The troop ship at the back was my target due to its high tonnage (14,000+). I ended up with a couple of premature detonations, but the last one hit!

bstanko6

05-09-19, 12:42 PM

Have to apologize for the last video. I was trying out AMD ReLive and did not set up my mic. It captured the game sound not me speaking.

Tonci87

05-10-19, 01:20 PM

So here is an immersive way to find a convoy!

Plot an intercept course by using the information a radio report gives you

RAOBF and Attack Disc Tutorial (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_r0WfKXEI4)

:yeah:

bstanko6

05-10-19, 04:34 PM

Been thinking of doing a patrol vid and chronicle some of the things I do in my other vids as I complete a patrol. That way you guys can see my techniques in action as I play.

Can someone help me on how I can make an intro screen on my vids? Like Taff in Exile?

Tonci87

07-28-19, 05:02 PM

So I noticed something that very often gets overlooked in the game, namely that your diveplane controllers are seriously slowing down your boat under water. Because of them it needs more time to get up to speed, and it will also slow down faster. See here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrXEyxwmQBg

bstanko6

08-23-19, 07:49 PM

Just a refresher on periscope discipline.
At 1:35 you will see the level of constant range checks on several targets getting extremely close to this submarine... it should be noted this scope has range finders and prisms but the captain in training cannot use them.

https://youtu.be/PyCoT6bKgJQ

Tonci87

08-25-19, 02:09 PM

Very interesting

WildBlueYonder

09-14-19, 03:42 AM

Since we are on the topic of historical accuracy, does anyone know if the RAOBF actually existed on WW2 German submarines? I would not want to use it if that wasn't the case.

bstanko6

09-14-19, 03:53 AM

Can’t remember the source, but I remember seeing it on a periscope diagram. For the life of me, I can’t remember it.

derstosstrupp

09-14-19, 05:43 AM

Per Hitman’s research it seems the Germans dropped the stadimeter with integrated RAOBF early in the war in favor of binocular optics. The thinking I guess was that the added spatial awareness made up for it. So the
C/2 Standsehrohr attack scope (ie the one we all know and love) did NOT have that feature.

Some details here: http://www.tvre.org/en/aiming-with-the-periscope

See especially drawing 16.

Tonci87

09-15-19, 02:20 PM

Since we are on the topic of historical accuracy, does anyone know if the RAOBF actually existed on WW2 German submarines? I would not want to use it if that wasn't the case.

Simple answer, some boats had it, some didn´t, but they did seem to stop supplying new boats with the device as the war went on.

bstanko6

09-16-19, 03:10 PM

There was one in Das Boot, you can just make it out during the DD duel! The old man is looking up to see the bearing, and I think his left hand was adjusting the RAOBF.

pharos

09-30-19, 10:02 AM

Red, right, returning ... everywhere?

You have just discovered IALA System "A" buoyage. Everywhere in the world except the USA and places that the USA has influenced, like Japan, Korea and the Philippines, have the green buoys to starboard as you proceed with the flood tide.

As you are heading into a port then the tide floods towards the port so you pass red buoys on your port side

Aktungbby

09-30-19, 12:13 PM

pharos! After a six year silent run!:Kaleun_Salute:

THEBERBSTER

09-30-19, 01:17 PM

A Warm Welcome Back To The Subsim Community > pharos
Subsim <> Make A Donation <> See The Benefits <> Support The Community (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2027002&postcount=1)
SH3 – 4 - 5 Tutorials > Downloads > Other Useful Information > See Links in My Signature Below

Tonci87

10-16-19, 03:36 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkdRy4TXS4w

So, here I am showing a surface attack at night. Surface attacks at night were actually the most common method of attack, at least during the first years when radar was not yet common.
You will notice that you can get quite close to a destroyer that has not been alarmed if it is sufficiently dark

bstanko6

12-11-19, 03:43 PM

Awesome vid! Just seeing this now!

Tonci87

12-11-19, 04:16 PM

You should also take a look at the newest video.

What do we do when destroyers start to have radar?

Stay submerged!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2nr2G2SRGY

Tonci87

01-27-20, 05:45 PM

derstosstrupp

01-27-20, 08:45 PM

I have just released a Video showing how to use the historical Ausdampfverfahren

It helps to hit the target without measuring speed or AOB.
Good for beginners and experienced Kaleuns alike.

Enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLTkxym1y9s

Excellent! Always good to see Ausdampfen used. I live and die by this method, albeit for determining target speed while surfaced (ownspeed x sin(bearing) / sin(AOB)). But yeah this as a shooting method is also top notch!

Been getting back to reading KTBs to help me with my Wolfpack campaign and man does Ausdampfen show up a lot. “Fahrt ausgedampft”, “Schussunterlagen durch Ausdampfen” etc etc.

Just read one from Prien where they got the speed wrong due to “wrong engine setting used in Ausdampfen calculation due to intercom transmitter failure”.

Tonci87

01-27-20, 08:59 PM

Yeah, the more I read up on this stuff, the more surprised I am that so much was simply done by Ausdampfen or by just estimation.

derstosstrupp

01-27-20, 09:27 PM

I did videos on Ausdampf- and Auswanderungsverfahren for SH3 years ago but yours is much better quality (it was before I knew what I was doing recording). This captures the spirit of “working with imperfect information” that pretty much defines my approach to targeting. Ditch the rec manual!

John Pancoast

01-27-20, 09:42 PM

Yeah, I just plot their course and head for the 90 degree approach of that course line. Range is not relevant then.

Speed estimate mostly by shadowing at same speed, but after awhile one gets good enough at eyeballing it too.

Big believer in the KISS principle <g>, especially once airpower, radar, etc. come into play.

Tonci87

01-27-20, 10:01 PM

I also ditched the recognition manual, except for warships, or ship classes that were really build to standard measurements (like liberty freighters)

John Pancoast

01-27-20, 10:22 PM

I also ditched the recognition manual, except for warships, or ship classes that were really build to standard measurements (like liberty freighters)

Yep, that's the beauty of the 90 attack; don't need aob or range so no manual needed either.

bstanko6

02-14-20, 05:31 PM

https://youtu.be/yFi6natzECA

Getting back to it!

adrians69

02-15-20, 08:20 AM

Very informative and similar to how I play, although I will implement some of the tips given here to take it further :up:

bstanko6

03-19-20, 12:19 PM

It’s a little early but I present to you:
The Hunter Season 2 Episode 1

https://youtu.be/enNGKpBS9X4

Noonai

04-04-20, 01:28 PM

All the information in this post and your videos are amazingly useful.
I started playing SH5 for the first time not long ago because I came across some of your videos.

I am trying to learn by reading some books you recommend and watching you play.

I am nowhere near to be called a captain yet but I enjoy every minute of this game. I actually play without any TC at all. My navigation is long but I use that time to keep learning, reading and doing other tasks.

Thanks again for the effort you put in your tutorials!

bstanko6

04-04-20, 02:56 PM

@Noonai...

Thank you, I am glad these vids help.

The videos I created are in no way absolute historical. If you wanted you can get real serious with serious math and calculations...

But these vids are here to give you a visual approach to attacking a target.

The commanders in the beginning of the war use calculations and procedures taught at Academy.

By mid end war, they were being hunted and required quicker, simpler methods of attacking.

I hope I emulate them here.

Happy hunting!

Noonai

04-18-20, 09:19 AM

So much material to go through... I am in my 2nd week of playing this game!

I have started writing down a KTB for my Uboat adventures. I even downloaded a font that simulates "old" typewriter characters.
I note down things that we can find in KTBs (btw, this is an amazing read too!) but I also write down events or messages received from radio. Even Enigma ones although this is probably dangerous. We don't want our diary to fall in the enemy hands with decoded messages!

But really helps me on the immersion of the game. I love how easy is to role play in any aspect with this game.

I have also installed a red filter on my light (while I wait for my led lamp). Thanks for this bstanko6! Your home setup video is amazing. I am stealing so much from you.

One thing I want to explore is eventually create a real TDC of some sort with arduino. I have no idea if this is possible at all. I know it might be possible to read data from the game (create a dial for the fuel, rudders etc...) but I have no idea how crazy will be to input data from a device into the game.

I can't find anything done in the net so I will keep searching!

Again, thanks a lot for all the knowledge shared in this thread! I have years to catch up but I play in real time (absolutely no TC) so I have time to kill between hunting contacts!

derstosstrupp

04-18-20, 09:41 AM

One thing I want to explore is eventually create a real TDC of some sort with arduino. I have no idea if this is possible at all. I know it might be possible to read data from the game (create a dial for the fuel, rudders etc...) but I have no idea how crazy will be to input data from a device into the game.

Check this out https://youtu.be/v4mDbtgcsHE

Noonai

04-18-20, 09:52 AM

Check this out https://youtu.be/v4mDbtgcsHE

This is great! Thanks so much for the link. I will contact the uploader for information.

jtsjc1

04-18-20, 02:46 PM

Guys thanks so much for the excellent instructional videos this is a great thread! I will recommend 2 excellent reference books

U-Boat Attack Logs by Daniel Morgan
German U-Boat Losses During WWII by Axel Niestle

Both excellent well put together top shelf books. Thanks again for your videos keep it up!

bstanko6

04-18-20, 05:38 PM

@derstosstrupp...

Nice! I totally forgot about that video! Thanks for posting t!

John Pancoast

04-18-20, 06:11 PM

Interesting ! I'm always curious though; so many demonstration videos show the scope up for very long times to accomplish this or that.

How is it not seen ?

p.s. I want that hotas.

bstanko6

04-18-20, 06:25 PM

@John Pancoast...

You are right. Periscope discipline is important. I did a video on it.

John Pancoast

04-18-20, 06:36 PM

@John Pancoast...

You are right. Periscope discipline is important. I did a video on it.

This or that device in some demonstration videos is being used because it's "historically realistic", yet something so basic is ignored.

But maybe it's only done for demonstration purposes, don't know.

Impressive work the guy did regardless.

jtsjc1

04-19-20, 04:55 PM

https://www.paperlessarchives.com/wwii-u-boat-diaries.html

Some very interesting material 4000+ pages!

bstanko6

04-19-20, 05:31 PM

Very nice! Thank you jtsjc] for your contribution!

jtsjc1

04-19-20, 05:52 PM

Very nice! Thank you jtsjc] for your contribution!

Let me say thank you for all your videos and instructional posts in this thread they're very helpful. I do have a copy of the U-boat Commanders Handbook from your recommendation. Enjoy the War Diaries!

derstosstrupp

04-19-20, 06:55 PM

jtsjc1

04-20-20, 03:41 PM

I did a re-translation of the handbook, check out my signature below. The original wartime translation was not very good, and it lacked a lot of context, so when I re-translated it last year, I added contextual color as well.

I downloaded your re-translation and appreciate the time and effort you put into it. That's whats great about this forum and the members. Thank you.

Jojojung

04-20-20, 04:39 PM

@ Tonci87

Top video about the Audampfungsverfahrenl! Helpt me a lot to work with historical methods in TWoS.
Just wait to see the video of the "Auswanderungsverfahren".
Great work!

Jojojung

04-20-20, 04:48 PM

I also ditched the recognition manual, except for warships, or ship classes that were really build to standard measurements (like liberty freighters)

I have the reprint of the Gröner "Handelsflotten der Welt" and this is an authentic way to identify ships. It was converted to a Marinedienstvorschrift instead. The Lloyds Register was also used. So there was identification charts on board.

But your right, the main attacks were based on guessing, I think!

Tonci87

04-20-20, 05:45 PM

I have the reprint of the Gröner "Handelsflotten der Welt" and this is an authentic way to identify ships. It was converted to a Marinedienstvorschrift instead. The Lloyds Register was also used. So there was identification charts on board.

But your right, the main attacks were based on guessing, I think!

Does "Handelsflotten der Welt" include cutouts for ships? Or other means to easily identify a ship visually?

Jojojung

04-21-20, 03:58 PM

Does "Handelsflotten der Welt" include cutouts for ships? Or other means to easily identify a ship visually?

Yes it does have the silhouette of all the Shops in "Teil B". Its consists of two books. First i thought that it wasnt used because the masthight ist missing in "Teil A". In the tables there are a lot of information of each ship (Name, length, draft etc.) musst bei a few tousend ships. But the silhoutte are true to scale and so you can simply calculate the masthight from the silhoutte.

Tonci87

04-21-20, 07:50 PM

Yes it does have the silhouette of all the Shops in "Teil B". Its consists of two books. First i thought that it wasnt used because the masthight ist missing in "Teil A". In the tables there are a lot of information of each ship (Name, length, draft etc.) musst bei a few tousend ships. But the silhoutte are true to scale and so you can simply calculate the masthight from the silhoutte.

How thick is that book? :o

Would you personally be able to visually identify a ship with the help of this book? Or is it just too much information to be practicable?

derstosstrupp

04-21-20, 10:41 PM

John Pancoast

04-21-20, 10:47 PM

One thing that is striking when you read the KTBs is how little recognition manuals are mentioned. With very few exceptions, either in the body of the KTB itself or in the accompanying Schußmeldungen (shooting reports) if they are included, you find the word “Ausdampfen”, mostly in relation to determining target speed. The translations on uboatarchive.net mostly give this as “matching”, but that’s not entirely accurate. Better would be “speed by constant bearing”. The procedure was just as Tonci shows in his video, albeit on the surface upon first sighting. In many cases it was done either directly ahead or behind the target, by simply matching the course and adjusting own speed until the target neither closed nor got further away. Time and time again you see “vorgesetzt, Kurs und Fahrt mit xxx Grad und x sm ausgedampft” (Got in front, matched course of xxx and speed of x knots). So if not sure of course and speed, simply accelerate and get in front as quick as you can, put them on your 180, and adjust course and speed while in front such that his bearing doesn’t change and he’s not getting closer or further away, pretty simple really!

Who needs a plotting party, a whole fire control team, a two-man TDC team, and a guy at the radar? Not the Germans! Simple relative angles and simple math with a slide rule or a table, and you’ve got all the information you need.

:up: I do this all the time with including from the port or starboard of convoys or singles.
Main way I get the speed, or at least a very close idea of it; just match the target's with yours.

derstosstrupp

04-21-20, 10:51 PM

:up: I do this all the time with including from the port or starboard of convoys or singles.
Main way I get the speed, or at least a very close idea of it; just match the target's with yours.

That’s great to hear John! I finally watched bstanko6’s Hunter series too, which is very well done, and I noticed he did a variation of this as well prior to his convoy attack. As was said before, we have a great community here, really appreciates the history and procedures!

John Pancoast

04-21-20, 11:04 PM

That’s great to hear John! I finally watched bstanko6’s Hunter series too, which is very well done, and I noticed he did a variation of this as well prior to his convoy attack. As was said before, we have a great community here, really appreciates the history and procedures!

:salute:

Tonci87

04-22-20, 06:59 AM

One thing that is striking when you read the KTBs is how little recognition manuals are mentioned. With very few exceptions, either in the body of the KTB itself or in the accompanying Schußmeldungen (shooting reports) if they are included, you find the word “Ausdampfen”, mostly in relation to determining target speed. The translations on uboatarchive.net mostly give this as “matching”, but that’s not entirely accurate. Better would be “speed by constant bearing”. The procedure was just as Tonci shows in his video, albeit on the surface upon first sighting. In many cases it was done either directly ahead or behind the target, by simply matching the course and adjusting own speed until the target neither closed nor got further away. Time and time again you see “vorgesetzt, Kurs und Fahrt mit xxx Grad und x sm ausgedampft” (Got in front, matched course of xxx and speed of x knots). So if not sure of course and speed, simply accelerate and get in front as quick as you can, put them on your 180, and adjust course and speed while in front such that his bearing doesn’t change and he’s not getting closer or further away, pretty simple really!

Who needs a plotting party, a whole fire control team, a two-man TDC team, and a guy at the radar? Not the Germans! Simple relative angles and simple math with a slide rule or a table, and you’ve got all the information you need.

And remember, Target speed is the most important piece of data to get right!

AOB and distance can be approximated and you will most likely still hit your target. But if you get the speed wrong then you might miss, even at close range.

What I like to do is to cross in front of the target (if possible surfaced). Once I have an AOB of 0° I know the targets course. I then continue until I have an AOB of 20°. I match the targets course and adjust my speed until I have a constant bearing. The targets speed is now the same as mine. Now I can dive and turn 90°. That way I don´t even have to estimate the range :)

A simple and effective method..... until they start to have escorts with radar, then it gets more complicated.

John Pancoast

04-22-20, 07:16 AM

And remember, Target speed is the most important piece of data to get right!

AOB and distance can be approximated and you will most likely still hit your target. But if you get the speed wrong then you might miss, even at close range.

What I like to do is to cross in front of the target (if possible surfaced). Once I have an AOB of 0° I know the targets course. I then continue until I have an AOB of 20°. I match the targets course and adjust my speed until I have a constant bearing. The targets speed is now the same as mine. Now I can dive and turn 90°. That way I don´t even have to estimate the range :)

A simple and effective method..... until they start to have escorts with radar, then it gets more complicated.

I like to get both the course and speed from where I'm shadowing, be it port, starboard, or in front. "Crossing the T" tends to be to dangerous for my tastes, radar or not; more movement = more chance of being spotted, i.e. I like 90 degree attacks too, so range/aob isn't relevant.
I don't bother trying it from astern; if you're going to attack you're going to have to move "up" anyway so I just do it then.

derstosstrupp

04-22-20, 07:22 AM

And remember, Target speed is the most important piece of data to get right!

AOB and distance can be approximated and you will most likely still hit your target. But if you get the speed wrong then you might miss, even at close range.

What I like to do is to cross in front of the target (if possible surfaced). Once I have an AOB of 0° I know the targets course. I then continue until I have an AOB of 20°. I match the targets course and adjust my speed until I have a constant bearing. The targets speed is now the same as mine. Now I can dive and turn 90°. That way I don´t even have to estimate the range :)

A simple and effective method..... until they start to have escorts with radar, then it gets more complicated.

Yeah that’s absolutely perfect in my opinion. I’m always harping on the stuff over in the Wolfpack community, it’s amazing how many people fiddle with range calculations, IDing everything, and angle on bow calculations by aspect ratio, all that stuff when all they need is this. Especially in that sim where, for the moment, targets are guaranteed not to change course or speed.

John Pancoast

04-22-20, 07:29 AM

Yeah that’s absolutely perfect in my opinion. I’m always harping on the stuff over in the Wolfpack community, it’s amazing how many people fiddle with range calculations, IDing everything, and angle on bow calculations by aspect ratio, all that stuff when all they need is this. Especially in that sim where, for the moment, targets are guaranteed not to change course or speed.

Exactly. Keep it simple. Some folks like to make things more complex than needed, which is fine, but it's not necessary or even completely historically accurate.

Tonci87

04-22-20, 08:31 AM

The less complicated you make something, the less can go wrong.

John Pancoast

04-22-20, 08:36 AM

The less complicated you make something, the less can go wrong.

:yeah:

Jojojung

04-22-20, 08:47 AM

How thick is that book? :o

Would you personally be able to visually identify a ship with the help of this book? Or is it just too much information to be practicable?

It has ca. 800 pages and the tables are very very small printed.

Yeah you can work with the silhouette quite well in TWoS.

Its the ultimate immersive object for me. And everytime the solution worked a have to show respect to the great and exact work of the modders.
In this Book there is a historical "how to use tutorial" in the beginning.

If you write me your E-Mail per PM I can give you an example. But its in german language of course.

In many books about the experiance on real patrols it is referred to the gröner handbook.
It was put to a Marinedienstvorschrift in 1942 (M.Dv.Nr. 135). The reprint is from 1976.

Aktungbby

04-22-20, 09:11 AM

A simple and effective method..... until they start to have escorts with radar, then it gets more complicated.

Exactly. Keep it simple. Some folks like to make things more complex than needed, which is fine, but it's not necessary or even completely historically accurate.

The less complicated you make something, the less can go wrong.
Everything in war is very simple. But the simplest thing is difficult.
Carl von Clausewitz (https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/carl-von-clausewitz-quotes)

:Kaleun_Salute:

bstanko6

04-22-20, 01:35 PM

I’m proud of how this thread has grown! Everyone has contributed so much great stuff, and keeping on track with the theme of the title! Thank you folks.

Noonai

04-23-20, 07:45 PM

Small excerpt of my ongoing 1st war patrol report.

3159

I find it very immersive to narrate the events and helps me think better.

I am heading back to Kiel after 4 days patrolling. Date is September 4th.
Still learning this game with the help of all of you.

Jojojung

04-24-20, 05:29 AM

I’m proud of how this thread has grown! Everyone has contributed so much great stuff, and keeping on track with the theme of the title! Thank you folks.

I tought of it in another thread.
IRL the subcrew was trying to find out what was the ships name and what was the loading.
If you write your own KTB this information would be very great too.
SH3 Commander solve this by random names and Cargo etc. For me this was a very immersive element.

How could you add this aspect to TWoS?
Is there an opportunity to add this in the game by intercept radio messages? Like IRL the ships send a SOS message when they were hit often with its real position and name. This was one method to find out the ships name. The other was interrogation of survivors. Of course these two things were not always possible and succsessful. Is there an idea of implementing this in a game? Perhaps only by a pop up message that has a 33% chance to pop up when you reach the sinking place.

I asked this in another thread about SH5 modding but what does the option "Inform of destroyed messages" in the radio messages options mean? I have never recieved any of this messages i think. Does this feature work?
Perhaps you could use this feature for the idea of find more out about your victim ship.

Tonci87

04-24-20, 05:31 AM

Jojojung

04-24-20, 08:37 AM

Sometimes you will receive a radio message when you sink a ship. It is rare though.

Does anyone know how this mechanism works in TWoS and how to modify it?

bstanko6

04-24-20, 11:42 AM

John Pancoast

04-24-20, 11:53 AM

Jojojung

04-24-20, 12:02 PM

In real life, the could never confirm sinkings until they got home and received intelligence from spy’s, radio, and such.

Their KTB entry of ship and tonnage was a “guesstimate” until it was confirmed later.

Yes your right! But they tryed to figure out more information about the ship by interceps and interrogation. Many ships were paintet with wrong names and the survivors made incorrect information about name and cargo and so on.

You can read about this in many KTBs and in a lot of eyewitness reports. There was a addition to the Marinedienstvorschrift 135 "Suchliste für Schiffsnamen" (List of Shipnames) printed in 1943 to cover changing of names for existing ships. In the foreword it is said that this list (its more likley a book instead) should help to identify the single ship when the ships are renamed or when incomplete names.

This was used to fool the enemy.

Would be very great to implement the hole matter in TWoS!

Noonai

04-24-20, 12:50 PM

Would be very great to implement the hole matter in TWoS!

I role-play a lot of this actually. I have downloaded a few War Diary German Naval Staff - Operations Division, which basically it's a compilation of orders and radio messages by date.

I follow the dates in the in the document (many radio messages in the game seem to be taken from it) so I can follow a bit the time line.
Avoiding spoilers of course.

I even do watch changes and follow a few procedures detailed in the Commander's handbook and Pocket Manual books.

derstosstrupp

04-24-20, 01:11 PM

Jojojung

04-24-20, 01:21 PM

I role-play a lot of this actually. I have downloaded a few War Diary German Naval Staff - Operations Division, which basically it's a compilation of orders and radio messages by date.

I follow the dates in the in the document (many radio messages in the game seem to be taken from it) so I can follow a bit the time line.
Avoiding spoilers of course.

I even do watch changes and follow a few procedures detailed in the Commander's handbook and Pocket Manual books.

Do you meen the KTBs of the "Seekriegsleitung"?
This is a lot of stuff but exelent to get the hole picture. And your right some radio messages are word to word to the historical counterparts.

For those who are familiar with the german language: the complete book of 77 volumes are ready to download at this site:

https://opus4.kobv.de/opus4-zmsbw/solrsearch/index/search/searchtype/series/id/1/rows/10/start/60

derstosstrupp

04-24-20, 01:49 PM

Do you meen the KTBs of the "Seekriegsleitung"?
This is a lot of stuff but exelent to get the hole picture. And your right some radio messages are word to word to the historical counterparts.

For those who are familiar with the german language: the complete book of 77 volumes are ready to download at this site:

https://opus4.kobv.de/opus4-zmsbw/solrsearch/index/search/searchtype/series/id/1/rows/10/start/60

Wow what an excellent link, thanks! I’ll have to take a look at that. Does anyone know where skippers’ KTBs are in the original German? I’m familiar with the U-boatarchive collection, just wondering if there’s a more complete one such as this.

Noonai

04-24-20, 01:54 PM

Do you meen the KTBs of the "Seekriegsleitung"?
This is a lot of stuff but exelent to get the hole picture. And your right some radio messages are word to word to the historical counterparts.

For those who are familiar with the german language: the complete book of 77 volumes are ready to download at this site:

https://opus4.kobv.de/opus4-zmsbw/solrsearch/index/search/searchtype/series/id/1/rows/10/start/60

Exactly that yes! And here's the English translation (of 68 of them)

https://archive.org/details/wardiarygermanna61940germ/page/2/mode/2up

Noonai

04-24-20, 02:02 PM

This is excellent. I do the watch system rotation using the NYGM fatigue model in sH3. How do you manage to simulate a rotation in SH5?

For now it's just a mark in my KTB where I report exact location, weather report and the intention of the shift. During transit I also perform dive and emergency surface tests to break the routine.
I have a chart with the watch changes and what's to be done in each.

The best feeling is when something happens and you can't follow what was planned. You have to react to it. It helps me to add a bit of chaos to the order of something planned.

I am starting today my 2nd patrol after docking at Kiel last night. So I will try a few other things to add to each watch (got a few ideas from the Uboot board game - where they simulate very well the order stress - fatigue -morale of the crew).

derstosstrupp

04-24-20, 02:24 PM

For now it's just a mark in my KTB where I report exact location, weather report and the intention of the shift. During transit I also perform dive and emergency surface tests to break the routine.
I have a chart with the watch changes and what's to be done in each.

The best feeling is when something happens and you can't follow what was planned. You have to react to it. It helps me to add a bit of chaos to the order of something planned.

I am starting today my 2nd patrol after docking at Kiel last night. So I will try a few other things to add to each watch (got a few ideas from the Uboot board game - where they simulate very well the order stress - fatigue -morale of the crew).

That sounds really cool, yeah I’d be interested in the details of that if you don’t mind.

Lugermann

04-24-20, 02:28 PM

In real life, the could never confirm sinkings until they got home and received intelligence from spy’s, radio, and such.

Sometimes they could... :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

https://i.ibb.co/xzHMctv/otto.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

bstanko6

04-24-20, 02:42 PM

@Lugermann...

I stand corrected, there were times; they rescue sailors from sinking ship, debris, visual confirmation if possible. But BDU had to confirm through regulated means to ensure accuracy of reports and sinkings. So correct, they could unofficially do so.

Lugermann

04-25-20, 02:45 AM

I tought of it in another thread.
IRL the subcrew was trying to find out what was the ships name and what was the loading.
If you write your own KTB this information would be very great too.
SH3 Commander solve this by random names and Cargo etc. For me this was a very immersive element.

How could you add this aspect to TWoS?
Is there an opportunity to add this in the game by intercept radio messages? Like IRL the ships send a SOS message when they were hit often with its real position and name. This was one method to find out the ships name. The other was interrogation of survivors. Of course these two things were not always possible and succsessful. Is there an idea of implementing this in a game? Perhaps only by a pop up message that has a 33% chance to pop up when you reach the sinking place.

I asked this in another thread about SH5 modding but what does the option "Inform of destroyed messages" in the radio messages options mean? I have never recieved any of this messages i think. Does this feature work?
Perhaps you could use this feature for the idea of find more out about your victim ship.

Open with the Windows Notepad the file named CampaignProgress.cfg located in MyDocuments\SH5\data\Users\"your Captain name"\Campaign-xxxx-xx-xx_xxxx (the last created)

There you can locate the name of your sunken ships. For example:

[CampaignProgress.MisResult 3.MisKill 2]
Name=_Medium Steam Merchant II#1
ClassName=KMSSWaziristanCS
Type=108
Side=1
KillDate=19411216
Tonnage=5245
Long=2327067.500000
Lat=4151295.250000
Height=-5.200325
IsFromSingleMis=false
FromNode=Port Said
ToNode=Valletta

KMSS is the acronym of Kumasan Maritime Shipping Services. A african company. The sunken ship departed from Port Said...

https://www.goafricaonline.com/ci/43401-kmss-kumasan-marine-services-transport-maritime-shipping-abidjan-cote-ivoire
https://www.kumasan-ci.com/#

The name of the ship, Waziristan, it's real:

https://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/1238.html

https://i.ibb.co/X5YvhCq/waziristan.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

bstanko6

05-13-20, 02:40 AM

Bump

derstosstrupp

05-31-20, 01:31 AM

Yes indeed bump, let’s keep this thread going and visible!

bstanko6

05-31-20, 01:27 PM

@derstosstrupp...

I appreciate your support!

Compans57

05-31-20, 11:57 PM

One immersive thing I've got into is after firing my torpedoes, I head straight for the hydrophone and find my torpedo path (0 degrees naturally), listen to the high pitched whine, scan left or right to find the target and go back to the torpedoes . It's exciting hearing the two sounds converge and you generally know you're onto a winner.

I'd highly recommend the mod for listening to sinking ships also. Spooky.

bstanko6

06-04-20, 12:13 PM

derstosstrupp

06-04-20, 01:12 PM

I was reading a thread and watching my vid on periscope discipline.

One thing I did not stress, is to always keep your scope head as close to the water surface as possible when attacking/observing.

If you have a clear view of a target, with no water splashing into your view often... then you are doing it wrong.

Remember, a spotted u-boat is a useless one!

Very good point! I remember the handbook mentioning that it should suffice you to see just the tops of the masts right before you shoot, after finishing your confirmation of the data.:Kaleun_Periskop:

Texas Red

06-04-20, 01:19 PM

This is an excellent thread!

I'm surprised that I found that a few of these things listed on the first post I learned on my own.

bstanko6

06-04-20, 02:38 PM

@the beast...

Hello friend. I hope you read through the entire thread at some point! Many folks here have contributed very valuable info to this great genre.

Good hunting!

John Pancoast

06-04-20, 02:53 PM

I was reading a thread and watching my vid on periscope discipline.

One thing I did not stress, is to always keep your scope head as close to the water surface as possible when attacking/observing.

If you have a clear view of a target, with no water splashing into your view often... then you are doing it wrong.

Remember, a spotted u-boat is a useless one!

Have you even noticed if it makes a difference in the game ? I've left mine fully raised for many minutes with nary a reaction from the escorts. :hmmm:

bstanko6

06-04-20, 03:12 PM

Wolfram will report a merchant sending radio signals about a periscope sighting in your area...

Depending on the escort rating, they have hunted me down.

John Pancoast

06-04-20, 03:41 PM

Wolfram will report a merchant sending radio signals about a periscope sighting in your area...

Depending on the escort rating, they have hunted me down.

:up:

Texas Red

06-09-20, 10:03 PM

bstanko6, I am copying and pasting all your information onto a Word document that I will print and use among the other stuff I printed tonight for playing SH5.

Thanks a lot mate!

bstanko6

06-10-20, 08:39 AM

@the beast...
You are very welcome! Give the tommies hell!

Texas Red

06-25-20, 10:18 PM

Those tommies will sure regret ever coming near my boat! :Kaleun_Binocular::Kaleun_Periskop:

geekichick

07-14-20, 01:26 PM

31) CAPTAINS BED. I believe more can be done here than just looks. When I need a break, I never pause. I go here, use my iPad especially when in patrol area, and can’t leave. I read the recognition manual here, uboat commanders handbook, or to decode Enigma messages.

Man. BdU let you have an iPad? Psh, that's crap. They make me leave mine at home.

bstanko6

07-14-20, 11:46 PM

WW2 German scientists can’t be beat!

Storm501

07-26-20, 05:14 AM

Some new ideas. I haven't implemented them all.

1) Compile your SH playing hobby to a realistic career. Consider where you are located with your skills and knowledge. Cadet>IWO>CPT>Commander. Divide the time you spend on playing, let's say 5 hours a week to priorities as per your rank. This is patrol/theory/studies/writing reports. Details below:

Cadet would spend large portion of time studying Uboat Commander's handbook, type II, VII or IX technical data, history/stories of Atlantic War and biographies by successful U-boat aces. Learn morse, enigma, navigation, mathematics... Maybe try individual things in SH/Wolfpack like navigation, TDC computer and diving.
IWO could start to participate in short patrols. Preferably playing Wolfpack as part of crew, but you could also try SH Captain and practice with Type II in Baltic Sea by identifying neutrals. Focus especially on tutorials. Balance between patrols and theory 50-50. Focus to developing your own routines for TDC, identification, navigation and such, so that you know how to apply the knowledge ingame. As when attacking convoy every minute counts and then it is too late to learn basics.
Captain is probably where most people are located. You spend 75% of your time on patrols. The rest 25% is spent at harbour, depending on U-boat/crew damage-repair and earned vacation time. That time (week or two real time) you can spend to take a break for the game and spend on compiling logbook, reports, learning from your last patrol and also new theory. A U-boat Captain never stops learning (or if he does, he won't live long as the enemy keeps improving).
Commander is the phase where you have seen so much that you would stay on land and reduce your patrols to zero. However I think many would not enjoy this, so I think that it is fair to keep them at 25% to represent how Dönitz maintained his touch to patrol life by interviewing Captains after their patrols. So this is how you maintain your touch with the bread and butter. The other 75% time you would spend at the HQ. Depending on your department is training/tactics, operations or research. So you would spend time on modding, research, writing tutorials and guides for new Captains and perhaps leading Uboat campaign and interviewing Captains like Dönitz.

How does one determine and progress from one level to the next, I think it is entirely a personal decision with no definitive answer. You can base this on years played, tonnage sunk or just on your gut feeling. If you are KIA on patrol, maybe you want to start all over or just downgrade one level (eg. CPT>IWO). It is not impossible to drop from Commander to Cadet and start from ground up, because you are always learning new info and it is best to keep humble. Again this is an entirely personal decision.

2) Another progression of career is U-boat upgrades, new torpedos and crew improvement. The game handles this as renown, but you can make up an alternative, again based on time, tonnage and other factors. For example the new type III torps are on limited supply for the best Kaleuns, so you can only requisition them after 200 000t sunk on campaign. Also if you do badly, eg: Fail to meet objectives, monthly tonnage quota or mis-ID+sink ships such as allies and neutrals, you will receive detriment, such as loose upgrades, special torpedos, specialist crew or even get downgraded from Type VII back to Type II. Since it is hard us to make such choice objectively, you can do it with random generator or scale it with your mistakes before the patrols. First time you might just get off with a warning from Dönitz.

3) Medals and ranks https://uboat.net/men/ranks/
Research how these were given. Again, you can do things differently than the game tells you. If you have earned your medal, perhaps it is possible to order replica from Ebay or similar. Or these days use 3D printer. You can them put them in some container by the fireplace and remember your adventures and kamraden when you are old.

4) Make a routine for your patrol planning and debriefing. It is just as important as the patrol itself. Plan your patrol on Kriegsmarine Grid Chart, plot down air/mine threats, convoy routes, measure distances, plan navigation schedule and fuel consumption. Look up sun/moon almanac for the season. Do you want to leave harbour day or night? What about passing enemy air bases? During the patrol maintain your logbook. It is the single most important source of detailed info.

After the patrol write a report to BDU. With basic factors eg. How did patrol go, were objectives met. What did we sink. How was the weather. How was enemy activity and skill. What went well, what went bad. What can we learn. Finally report when you are ready for next patrol, considering damage to uboat/crew and need to rest. Adjust time spent at harbour by these factors, so that it is not always random/28d but scaled rationally. I also warmly recommend making a map of your conducted patrol route, with dates, contacts and main events. U-boat commanders did this and it helps you to put individual encounters to a larger context. Keep these organized digitally/physically in their respective patrol folders. I also did a map of a convoy battle to better understand escort position, behaviour, location of neutrals/big ships and tactics employed.

This all might seem like a lot of work, but by doing this you write down the story of your patrol. So that all the effort and time you put into it is not immediately lost once it is over. Instead you build on it and can go back to see how you handled problems before which you will face again. You learn new and gather intel to plan your future patrols better. One thing Kaleuns often are on lookout for are new possible convoy routes. If you encounter convoy in a place without known convoy route, plot it down and then you have knowledge of new hunting grounds.
For planning you can also make a crew and item manifest. Who do you need, with what speciality. How much fuel, torps and food do you need. Food can be simulated well, if it is your personal rations for next month or two (see part 7).
If you simulate crew, they will get wounded or MIA/KIA. Write a report on the circumstances to BDU and families. Sometimes crew will just transfer. Also when you have medals for them, write a request to BDU who has earned the medal and why. If someone comes short of expectations, you can dismiss them.

5) Other useful material for patrol:
Make a checklist if you keep forgetting the hundreds of details. How to conduct convoy attacks, plan and prepare patrols. It is no shame, pilots and astronauts use checklists to minimize human error.
Make a target card, lots or single laminated, where you can draw ship features (funnel, hull, island...) as you ID it. Once you have ID enter parameters such as height, depth, course. That way you have the info at an arm's lenght when you are setting up TDC.
Research and make a powerpoint of enemy threats. Mines, destroyers, aircraft. What kind of armament and detection systems do they have per year. What are their strenghts and weaknesses. What kind of experiences have U-boat Kaleuns have had previously with them.

6) Adopt the tactics of an U-boat Ace. For example I have learned from Otto Kretschmer to prefer surface attack and use 1 torp per 1 ship. Wolfgang Lüth had a good view of maintaining morale during long patrols by arranging routine/events to crew and also to maintain constant study and self-development.

7) Bring life around the patrols by gathering news/music/speeches of WW2 and arranging them by timeline. Once you are bored on your patrol, follow those as their date, to know what is happening in the war around you. Even more important are BDU standing orders and situation reports. Read these for your patrol and apply the operating procedures (sinking restrictions, torpedo settings) to your patrol as per the date. http://www.uboatarchive.net/BDUKTB.htm

8) More realism is gained by visiting museums. Especially U-boats, U-boat pens, war/ops rooms and escorts. You can also build small scale model U-boats and ships. Then you will begin to understand the scale and machines. Again, maps, manuals, books, internet, archieves, serials and movies give you perspective and added knowledge. You can construct a personal archieve/library for this information. It can be just one shelf or few folders. It can also be in digital format. Share information and material with others. They might have something you don't and vice-versa.

9) Greater realism can be achieved with food. You can combine U-boat life with the diet you have always wanted! Early on the patrol, you can enjoy fresh food such as sausages and fruit. Later on the patrol you are left with canned goods. If you can safely simulate taste of diesel/mould with spices, that is extra bonus, as U-boat crews often complained about that. If you are getting sick of canned goods, maybe you can go fishing at a nearby lake or supermarket, and catch a type fish which is common in the region you are sailing at. Maybe the Captain also has secret stash of cognac for long patrols and to give some warm feeling to the watch crew at 3 am. If you have a wife or significant other, you can agree to write letters from the sea.
Once you return to the harbour for a week or two, then you can let go of all limits. Feel free to go to a nice French restaurant (similar to Lorient) with wife or significant other, as you know you will have to go back to sea in a few weeks. If you have sunk over 50000 tons, get yourself a good bottle of something. You have earned it and live only once.

10) If your patrol goes south and you are taking flooding, go to a shower/pool/lake and continue the game wet. You can also take salty water to nostrils with a straw, it feels awful but has positive cleansing health effects, and gives feeling of drowning in salt water.
If you take damage and you need to repair it, go repair something with your car or house. You can combine this with an unplesant chore and suddenly it becomes lot more fun. Maybe add time pressure also: If you don't fix it in 15 min you sink. Just remember not to combine electric tasks with water!

11) Take screenshots of the best game moments with old-fashioned photofilter. Attach those photos to your reports and make a photoalbum of your patrols in the good old days. It can be next to your medals by the fireplace... (part 3)

12) If you know a place to print large posters, you can print the large Kriegsmarine Atlantic Chart (and others) and frame it on your wall. Make a small uboat symbol out paper and attach it there with piece of tape. Now you have your very own OPS/NAV room! You can always check where your U-boat and your friends are on patrol. If you get the scale and right tools, you can even navigate with the chart.
Below it attach a screw or two to the wall. Get an old fashioned wooden writing pad mount it there. Here you can keep your BDU orders/logs and other data at hand and walk to it during the patrol. It is like the navigation table on the submarine. If you want to write your reports the old-fashioned way, get a type-writer. One can only dream of constructing an own Enigma-machine...

13) When you choose your U-boat number, check that it is available as per the date. Look up it's history when has it been constructed, has it been to patrols, who has commanded it before and does it have any special features. Read the Captain logs to notice these special features or damage you should be aware of. Once you get sunk, see if you did better or worse than the U-boat historically or it's Captains. You can also plan your own Captain Emblem (maybe it is possible to mod to game?)

14) Research the story of the convoy you just hit and even the ships which you have sunk. http://www.convoyweb.org.uk/

Some things that would be cool, but not sure how to simulate them:
1) This was in previous page: Research story and load of each individual ship you sink. So ships in game rarely display their name. As in previous page I can find "ClassName=NKPF" but I have no idea how to go forward with this information.
2) Historical handbooks are difficult to find. Many links are dead or they are rewritten in online text format and not original scan. Navigational charts are difficult to find with sufficent resolution and quality.
3) Use weather history for planning. I haven't been able to locate weather data on the Atlantic 1939-45. Ok maybe this is partly useless as I have understood that weather in game is random to a degree. But of course all weather forecasts can go wrong. So historical weather data and charts could be used in patrol planning for realism purposes.
4) U-boat's cook book? Does anyone have it?

Storm501

07-28-20, 01:06 PM

I was on patrol on international waters. My IWO sights a neutral passenger liner. I consult BdU orders as we have unrestricted submarine warfare and possibility to engage. I am also in an operation with focus on warships and troop transports. After long consideration I decide not to sink her. I only snatch a small ID photo. 15 min later it feels dissapointing to let a 8000t target go...

For some reason I keep coming back to this photo. So after the patrol I decide to try and find out the name of the ship. I Google "Swedish passenger liner". The 2nd result leads me to a Wikipedia article and the similarity is clear as day.

https://sun9-64.userapi.com/c855416/v855416774/24ab95/9ta3nhnw2t0.jpg

https://sun9-72.userapi.com/c854028/v854028774/242402/OhTbahuZM-w.jpg
Just amazing. They match almost perfectly. Here is a bit of the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Drottningholm
The Drottningholm was one of the few passenger liners along with Cunard's RMS Aquitania, to have completed service in both World Wars. During wartime the ship was used as a mercy ship to exchange civilian internees, POWs, and diplomats. She was chartered by the American, British, and French governments for a total of 14 voyages that transported 18,160 individuals.
In March 1942 the ship was chartered by the U.S. State Department via an arrangement with the Nazi Germans and other Axis powers, facilitated with the help of the Swiss and Swedish governments, to repatriate civilian internees and diplomats from both sides of the war. Her first east bound voyage from the US, carrying Axis individuals, was from New York City to Lisbon, Portugal on May 7, 1942. On May 22, she departed Lisbon for a west bound return trip carrying Allied individuals to New York, arriving on June 1, 1942. The passengers included American Chargé d'affaires to Germany Leland B. Morris and diplomat George Kennan. She made one more east bound voyage to Lisbon on June 3 from Jersey City, New Jersey. Her final west bound exchange mission from Lisbon to New York arrived in the United States on June 30. That would be her last exchange trip from Lisbon as the Nazi government cancelled all further trades. On July 15, she left from New York City to her home port in Gothenburg, Sweden, carrying approximately 800 Axis nationals.
She continued to serve the British and French as a repatriation mercy ship. The Drottningholm carried Red Cross supplies for distribution to other nationalsstill in Japanese controlled territory. One Japanese national jumped overboard and drowned causing the exchange to be halted until an American offered to stay in captivity.
https://sun9-8.userapi.com/c854028/v854028774/24240a/cK5aBRJ9c5I.jpg
The Drottningholm was painted white with the name of the vessel in very large letters, the Swedish flag and the words "Sverige" (Sweden) and "Diplomat" painted prominently on port and starboard. She was fully illuminated so her markings could be easily viewed. On 16 March 1944 she docked in New York after an exchange voyage that took 750
Germans to Europe in exchange for 600 wartime internees, including Mary Berg. In September 1944, she was being used by the Red Cross to transport POWs and civilians being repatriated from Germany to the UK via Sweden, under the command of Captain John Nordlander. Another voyage in April 1945 docked in Liverpool that included 212 ex-interned Channel Islanders.https://sun9-22.userapi.com/c855416/v855416774/24ab8c/qksCJgfWpTA.jpg
This is just the ww2 history. The ship transported Canadian troops during ww1 and was involved in the disaster of the Titanic.

So now having learned the story of the ship in the sights of my UZO, I am glad I didn't sink her. Without learning the story I would have just thought "another neutral wasting my time in the game". So this brings a lot of new feeling to the game. How big of a responsibility a U-boat commander has on the decision to sink a ship or not. On that night I did not observe any diplomatic markings. Had I sunk her, I would have been in so much trouble. If it were not possible to cover the sinking as a mine.. With my decision, hang in the balance a big international incident, which would effect relations between Germany and Sweden. Perhaps on a strategical scale in ww2. But now I can be glad I made the right choice. I can put this ship in my photo album, marking down where and when I met her. Next we encounter, I will recognize her quite instantly.

Aktungbby

07-28-20, 01:16 PM

CONGRATS and kudos to your reticence as the anger Swedes woul blow up their iron mines and hamper the Nazi war effort in retaliation: a principle reason Hitler never invaded Sweden as with Denmark and Norway.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_during_World_War_II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_during_World_War_II) From late 1942 and into 1943, Germany began to meet with a series of military reverses after its losses at the Second Battle of El Alamein (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_El_Alamein), the Battle of Stalingrad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad) and elsewhere. Germany was forced into a more defensive position as the Allied forces achieved success on the battlefield. It was becoming increasingly apparent to Sweden that Germany was unlikely to win the war. Prior to 1943, Sweden's policy of neutrality had been largely under the close scrutiny of Germany. After August and September 1943, however, Sweden was increasingly able to resist German demands and to soften its stance to Allied pressure. However, despite Germany's new, defensive posture, Sweden's constant fear was that the unexpected would happen, an attitude that continued until the very end of the war. With Germany's weakening position came stronger demands from the Allies. They pushed for Sweden to abandon its trade with Germany and to stop all German troop movements over Swedish soil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transit_of_German_troops_through_Scandinavia_(WWII )). Sweden accepted payments from the Allies to compensate for this loss of income through reduced trade with Germany, but continued to sell steel and machine parts to Nazi Germany at inflated smugglers' rates.

Storm501

07-29-20, 01:44 PM

https://sun9-45.userapi.com/c858416/v858416926/21efd5/-UW8ZQOswHk.jpg
Another example illustrated. Here is the OPS room... or more like a corner. I just finished out piecing U-boat, convoy, task force and airbase symbols.
A while back I also covered the map with transparent plastic sheets, so that I could draw lines and circles. Air base range rings and convoy routes would be awesome, but it increases the workload and they change over time... In the paper sheet below I had BdU orders for the patrol, like the assigned grid.

Now considering if I could do something differently. For example compiling some sort of intel/planning/moon stage/weather package on the kneeboard before every patrol would be awesome. I think it would be feasable to add other U-boat symbols to the map, whenever they report, so it helps with the big picture. Even though it is just flavour.

derstosstrupp

08-14-20, 08:13 PM

Let’s keep this thread alive! Here’s one I did today showing a historical approach as one would typically read in the KTBs:

https://youtu.be/HQBJBt8CGA8

Storm501

08-17-20, 11:27 AM

https://youtu.be/N8v0Oj7Dw70 (https://youtu.be/N8v0Oj7Dw70)
Youtube is full of ambient noise videos. Including submarines.

If you listen to that with headset while the game running 1 TC or 64 TC... Amazing. You can immerse reading submarine literature. Another tip, if you have two computer monitors you can have SH5 on one screen and literature/forums on the other. SH5 works very stably windowed.

bstanko6

08-19-20, 08:42 PM

Texas Red

08-19-20, 08:55 PM

I had to look at the date when I made this thread! It feels like yesterday I wrote it. Now with all the great additions people have given to it... “Immersive techniques for the true Subsimmer” is alive and well. Thanks to all who takes time out of their day to read my nerdy rhetoric!

You are very welcome!

Using some of your techniques, such as "Periscope Discipline" I managed to complete the entire SH5 game!!

I should be the one thanking you here!

And Tbh, some of your "nerdy" things are kinda cool imo.
Your setup is pretty cool, I saw the video on your YT channel.
Your immersive techniques are cool as well.

And this is coming from a middleschooler who doesn't really like the nerds in his grade. At least, they don't do the stuff you do!

Keep it up man! :up:

bstanko6

08-20-20, 12:32 PM

LOL! Glad it helps Beast!

derstosstrupp

08-20-20, 10:58 PM

DAILY TRIM DIVE AND ETO REGULATING:

Trimming -
Dive to PD (all dives initiated at GF, ~16 kn) and drop to 1.5 kn (KF), Chief trims the boat at KF. If rough weather, instead trim at anywhere from 20-60 m. The boat was hard to hold at PD over sea states corresponding to winds over 10 m/s. So go deeper to trim at winds 11-15 m/s.

Regulating Etos -
Then to 30-60 m for an hour or two to regulate the Etos. All depth changes at 4.5 kn (HF). Cruise at 3 kn (LF).

When surfacing after running submerged awhile, first to 20 m for sound check at KF, then to PD for scope check. Up scope at just above 20 m on the way up, then SHIFT+F just before it breaks the surface so your chief holds a depth to keep the scope head low in the water. Scan, then down scope, GF (~ 7 kn) to decks awash, scan with UZO. If all clear, surface. Stay on bridge til Chief tells you you are running both diesels and can charge batteries (by then you would also know all tanks have blown). Go below, order charge batteries.

TORPEDO LOADOUT:
(Ato is G7a, Eto is G7e)

VIIA -
All bow tubes loaded with Etos. Bow reserve 2 Atos and 4 Etos. Stern tube an Ato. (Total 8 Etos, 3 Atos)

VIIB and VIIC -
All bow tubes loaded with Etos. Bow reserve 2 Atos and 4 Etos. Stern tube loaded with an Eto. Stern reserve an Ato. Both externals Atos. (Total 9 Etos, 5 Atos)

Why -
Etos required maintenance every few days on various components. Thus they needed to be accessible. The external eels therefore had to be Atos. The two Atos in the bow room were those under the floor plates. These were not immediately accessible due to the two eels sitting atop the floor plates, which were covered by wood boards (yep, bow room was a crowded place). The stern reserve was an Ato too as space for maintenance was insufficient.

Atos also needed maintenance (primarily charging the air tanks), but it was not critical to do so on a schedule as was the case with Etos.

The VIIA aft tube was not accessible and thus needed to be an Ato.

derstosstrupp

08-27-20, 11:47 PM

ATTACK CONDITIONS:

Seek to attack -
1. Out of the sun.
2. Facing the moon (from the dark side).
3. From the windward side, that is, upwind of the target.
4. For a stern shot (day) with moderate winds, say, less than 9 m/s, from the downwind side. In heavier winds, say 9 to 11 m/s, still attack from the windward side, even for a stern shot.

No submerged attacks over 11 m/s winds. These correspond to sea states at which it was nearly impossible to hold periscope depth in real life.

No submerged attacks at winds of 0 or 1 m/s. The sea is like glass, and any ripple of the scope can be seen. The only exception is on bright moonlit nights, at dusk, or with a very bright sun.

The winds corresponding to the ideal sea states for a submerged attack are 4 to 5 m/s.

For night surface attacks, anything below 15 m/s should be fine. And remember, approach on the “Hundekurve”, bow stays on target!

No recognition manual except for well-documented ships (warships, maybe Liberty ships)! IRL books did not have the extensive data that we have in the game. Use Ausdampfen (matching course/speed), plotting etc as recommended in the U.Kdt.Hdb. Only resort to data gathering through the scope in a pinch, or as confirmation of data obtained on the surface, and then only eyeballed!

Storm501

08-31-20, 04:48 AM

Tired of ending up in bad weather where you can't launch torpedos or shoot with the deck gun. Faults, premature detonations and that juicy tanker just sails away...

Why not check out the weather forecast before your patrol. It is entirely sensible that Uboat Kommandanten and BdU considered the weather in their planning.

https://app.metoceanview.com/hindcast/

On this site is a lot of solid weather data of the seas. I think the most interesting one is mean wave height. The weather patterns of the Atlantic today should not be that different from 1940. If you check out the months, you will see that North Atlantic region gets very red and high waves during winter time. So if your patrol is at such time, consider the Mediterranean, Arctic sea (very little daylight in the winter) or the South Atlantic. Return to the North Atlantic in spring.

Quick guide: https://app.metoceanview.com/hindcast/
Global summary overlay: Mean significant wave height
Choose your patrol month

bstanko6

09-15-20, 02:43 AM

I have to say thank you to all of the subscribers on YouTube! I hit over 700 subscribers! I am so glad this thread has helped so many folks and directed you to videos that help. Your subscriptions are a clear sign that what I have to say is important to you.

Thanks to all
Bob

Macgregor the Hammer

09-15-20, 11:42 PM

Bstanko6 is one of the captains I have followed for some time. I've watched his youtube videos over and over again and each time I find something new and I make a note on my reference notebook that I keep handy. In this notebook I have all the formulas, approach check lists, reminders, sonar and radar ranges, etc. It keeps growing all the time.

I've been playing Silent Hunter 4 & 5 seriously for about a year now. I keep getting better all the time. Like everything else in life: practice practice practice. I am nowhere near the playing level of Bstanko6, Fifi, Rockin' Robbins, Propbeanie and the rest of the highly experienced skippers. I don't play at 100% realism yet. I tried at first and I was not having fun! Fun is an important factor.

Breaking the periscope addiction is a must! When you do use it, no more than 30 seconds and <= 1kt. All the Silent Hunter sims have excellent TDC's, charting tools and sensor suites. My approaches start about 4,000 yds/m from my position and the solution should be dialed in pretty tight. The periscope should be used to firm up the solution before the shoot. One of my trouble spots is identifying ship type. Sticking the periscope out of the surface for 3 mins. while I thumb through the identification book has been very costly. Now, I just verify the flag and sink it.

I do run practice crash dives, emergency blows, emergency back flank so I can have an idea as to what I can expect. Radio reports, weather reports are very important. Keeping the crew's morale high is important, as is promotion, especially in TWoS.

:Kaleun_Cheers:

MacGregor

Ashikaga

09-23-20, 03:39 PM

I am reading this little bookie during my long mission at the moment.

First edition, 1942.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1330&pictureid=11511

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1330&pictureid=11512

OLtzS Ashikaga.

Tonci87

09-23-20, 03:47 PM

Be mindful of the historical context, remember at what time that book was written and published

Ashikaga

09-23-20, 04:33 PM

Well it is way less bad as I suspected it would be to be honest. I have read way worse propaganda. There is virtually no racism in it other than a few mentionings of survivors called Mulatten. For the rest it of course glorifies the missions in a completely expected way, being a historian I know how to read and recognize propaganda quite well, be that wartime or modern day stuff.

It is nevertheless very interesting reading material. Mr. Hartmann after the war became head of the Bundesmarine Schiffstammregiment (Naval Training Regiment) a short while.

Of course in hindsight it is horrible to know what effects propaganda had on so many of the German youth lured into the U boot service, which had the very worst casualty rate of the war.

OLtzS Ashikaga.

More on the author:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Hartmann

derstosstrupp

10-14-20, 08:17 PM

TVRe (TDC) Models

WHAT THEY HAD
Prior to mid-1940 or so, boats (generally VIIA and B and IXA and B) were fitted with one of two older TVRe models - the C/36 or the C/37. The differences between these are insignificant for our purposes, but the most noteworthy thing about these is they were more or less “point and shoot”. In other words, bearings were transmitted from the optics as in game but the AOB didn’t change as you rotated the optics, so AOB needed to be set for each shot. Also, the parallax correction (correcting for the lateral distance from tubes to optics) needed to be entered by hand.

In 1939 the model S3 was introduced and started being installed on VIICs and IXs in 1940. With this came the key feature “Lage laufend”, a functionality that updated AOB for every degree of bearing change caused by rotating the optics or changing own course (by way of an AOB synchro motor and connectivity to the gyrocompass). This is a HUGE advantage over older models as it allowed more freedom of maneuver and made it so subsequent targets on the same course could quickly be engaged. AOB only needed to be entered once. Also, the parallax correction was automated in this model.

WHAT WE HAVE
The TDC we have in SH3/5 functions like a blend of old and new models - it will update AOB as you rotate the scope, as the newer S3 model did, but then it doesn’t take your own course changes into account as the S3 did.

SIMULATING THE MODELS
VIIA/B or IXA/B Before mid-1940:
You have a C/36 or C/37. Determine what bearing you’d like to shoot at and set optics there. Click the TDC on to update the bearing and gyro angle then immediately off. Set the target data including AOB corresponding to that specific bearing. Do NOT turn TDC back on! Fire when the target crosses the wire. Do this for each shot. Switch targets, click on/off to update bearing, set new AOB etc, fire. Sure, you lose the transmission of the bearing but at least you don’t need to mess with the parallax correction.

Mid-1940 and later:
You have the S3. Operate as you normally would. Granted you are missing the connection to the gyrocompass so you have to reset AOB when changing course, but that’s SH3/5.

Macgregor the Hammer

10-15-20, 10:18 PM

Where can I find GOOD translations of KTB's?

derstosstrupp

10-15-20, 11:04 PM

Where can I find GOOD translations of KTB's?

These are mostly good. Few errors here and there but nothing major.

http://www.uboatarchive.net/KTBList.htm

les green01

10-16-20, 12:51 AM

i do love reading this thread many great pointers and to know i'm not the only one that plays like this

Flobster

10-20-20, 04:58 PM

This is a great thread! Thanks for all the tips and discussion. I've recently got back into subsimming (still mostly SH3.) I enjoy anything that allows me to suspend the feeling that I am in a mechanical flatworld filled with robots.

One thing I have been doing this time around is grabbing radio snippets from YouTube for the specific date I am playing in. If you search for "radio september 5th 1939" or whatever, you'll usually find something from the archive.

One channel that has been useful in this regard is the 'The World War II News and Old Time Radio Channel' found here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DgWFm2wENE&ab_channel=TheWorldWarIINewsandOldTimeRadioChannel

Most of the videos feature the channel owner reading a selection of newspaper articles followed by an hour or more of US radio from that specific day. It amounts to a huge amount of audio content. Much larger than anything a mod could include for the in-game radio.

If you're someone who spends a lot of time at low TC watching the waves go by, I find it adds a lot to the sense of time and place.

bstanko6

10-20-20, 10:37 PM

evilaviator

10-21-20, 06:43 AM

I’m glad you love the thread!

I ask all of you who enjoy this thread to please visit my YouTube channel by clicking on my signature.

I am at 750 subscribers and would love to get monetized!

Your support would be much appreciated!

I love your videos too and am a subscriber but you have to put out more content if you want the channel to grow. A video every 3 to 6 months won't do it.

les green01

10-21-20, 09:15 AM

you do have a great youtube channel and i subscribe to it i do have other accounts that i could use to subscribe if that would help

Tonci87

10-21-20, 02:27 PM

I love your videos too and am a subscriber but you have to put out more content if you want the channel to grow. A video every 3 to 6 months won't do it.

Of course, you are right.

However, as a fellow video creator I have the feeling that I need to defend BStanko6 a bit.
Producing content for Youtube is a very time consuming affair.

Silent hunter makes it even more difficult than other games, because you either need to do very long, or multi-part videos, to show one engagement.

For example, I had to split one engagement into three one hour long videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozi3e6m-bEc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE8lsG6qnXs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkdRy4TXS4w

So for one engagement I need to find the time to play almost four hours without saving (SH5 doesn´t like saving during engagements).
Then I need to find the time to edit the video, which takes even longer than recording did. And then I need to upload it to Youtube and make sure that everything is set up as it should be.

So making these three videos probably took 10 hours of my time.

I, and I think BStanko6 as well, would love to make more content, but finding the time to do it is very difficult if you also have a regular job :)

bstanko6

10-21-20, 03:17 PM

@Tonci... you couldn’t have said it better! I love displaying my videos but they are a labor. I do not like complaining about it, but at least you understand and that actually motivates me to get back at it again!!!

les green01

10-22-20, 10:09 PM

found out one thing tonight watch out for your own escorts just left harbor and get shot up and 3 men wounded had to turn back to port had to run to frank speed zig jagigng sad thing just follow him out excuse me go to go the bunk and get the luger and pay a certain capt a visted

les green01

10-23-20, 07:16 PM

does anybody attack the Poland destroyers taskforce in 39 or just go after merchants me i just report the taskforce and go for merchants has dd/s not worth wasting a fish on

Texas Red

10-23-20, 07:24 PM

does anybody attack the Poland destroyers taskforce in 39 or just go after merchants me i just report the taskforce and go for merchants has dd/s not worth wasting a fish on

Attacking DDs is something that I RARELY do. I only do it if I am super bored and that is like the only ship type I am encountering in my area.
I do not attack the Polish destroyers, its a waste.
I do report the taskforce and then sink the merchants.

Tonci87

10-24-20, 07:50 AM

Report the polish taskforce and then wait for the Stukas to arrive ;)

bstanko6

11-23-20, 01:47 AM

Bump

les green01

11-23-20, 10:41 AM

got to admit sh5 with twos has became my fav love way you can walk the sub and talk to the crew wish sh4 had that so what year does everyone do i been doing 39 but might go 40 see what happens

Drakken

12-02-20, 09:33 AM

John Pancoast

12-02-20, 09:47 AM

I took a short hiatus from my new TWOS campaign, so I'm still at September 2nd, 1939 in Polish Waters.

Using Real Navigation, with my written KTB:

- I use supermarks to plot a patrol waypoint on the map.
- Each time I plot a new course to a waypoint, I calculate an ETA and set my alarm to the estimated clock time.
- My Navigator does regular Dead Reckoning readings, and I use them to correct both my course and my ETA.
- When the alarm rings, I slow down to ahead one-third and order my Navigator to make a Celestial Navigation reading.
- When the Navigator is done, I dive to 20-30 meters to initiate the hydrophone scan protocol.

I know their is an automated routine for patrol grids, but in the Polish waters I prefer to keep control. Feel free though to improve my routine, though. :)

Fwiw, I've never been able to find any proof that actual commanders did a hydro scan protocol on a routine basis. Lot of water out there; needle in a haystack :)
Maybe someone else has ?
I.e., Kretschmer did a daily routine early morning dive but that was to give the watch crews a break from that taxing job vs. for a hydrophone check.
Of course a check can be a side benefit of such a routine too.

Drakken

12-02-20, 11:24 AM

Fwiw, I've never been able to find any proof that actual commanders did a hydro scan protocol on a routine basis. Lot of water out there; needle in a haystack :)
Maybe someone else has ?
I.e., Kretschmer did a daily routine early morning dive but that was to give the watch crews a break from that taxing job vs. for a hydrophone check.
Of course a check can be a side benefit of such a routine too.

That's interesting. I was wondering if Kaluens were really doing hydrophone checks every few hours because, on the face of it, doing so would absolutely kill their efficiency: Imagine basically stopping every two-four hours, lose time diving and surfacing, all for a 15-30 minutes spent on the hydrophone...

It makes sense when you are submerged during the day, or when weather is suboptimal, but else all those stop-and-goes would be a risk their electric engines, wouldn't they?

John Pancoast

12-02-20, 11:45 AM

That's interesting. I was wondering if Kaluens were really doing hydrophone checks every few hours because, on the face of it, doing so would absolutely kill their efficiency: Imagine basically stopping every two-four hours, lose time diving and surfacing, all for a 15-30 minutes spent on the hydrophone...

It makes sense when you are submerged during the day, or when weather is suboptimal, but else all those stop-and-goes would be a risk their electric engines, wouldn't they?

I don't know if doing such in real life would have had any affects on the mechanical/electrical side of things.
But I have a hard time believing any u-boat did such (if at all) at the frequency some players do. Some players also listen to the phones themselves which of course wasn't a commander's routine but everyone is free to play the game as they see fit.

derstosstrupp

12-02-20, 12:02 PM

Kretschmer’s policy was to dive for two hours before dawn. Merten had a similar practice. In general though, I have not come across any dives for the express purpose of doing a hydrophone check unless it was foggy or the weather was very poor. Daily trim dive an absolute must, which would’ve been used to service the torpedoes as well, but never simply a hydrophone check. What games just don’t get correct is how poor the acoustics of some sea areas are. Hirschfeld’s book (former radio mate, can’t remember the name of it) sheds a lot of light on how unreliable hydrophones were. Plus mast tips could be spotted out to 30 km or so in some cases, smoke even further. Hydrophones are overpowered in nearly every U-boat sim it seems.

John Pancoast

12-02-20, 12:04 PM

Angelis

12-02-20, 12:25 PM

John Pancoast

12-02-20, 12:30 PM

I‘d say during a normal patrol on search for "Fette Beute" Rundhorchen was a common thing due to it's effectivness. You could detect convoys up to 100 km away.

http://www.uboataces.com/hydrophones.shtml

Even if true, that was only under the rare optimal conditions and as pointed out such occasions were the exception.
If you have definitive proof that actual commanders did such a procedure on a routine basis that would be a great help, thanks !

Angelis

12-02-20, 12:49 PM

Even if true, that was only under the rare optimal conditions and as pointed out such occasions were the exception.
If you have definitive proof that actual commanders did such a procedure on a routine basis that would be a great help, thanks !

Not right out of the box but I‘ve read a contempory witness report of a U-466 crewmember.
Unfotunately on German.

Saying:
"Am 26.1. 1943, 17.14 Uhr Alarmtauchen wegen eines in Sicht gekommenen Flugzeuges. Um 20.38 Uhr hatten wir die erste Horchpeilung von einem Geleitzug und operierten auf diesen, jedoch ohne Erfolg, weil wir einen Maschinenschaden im Dieselraum hatten, die Kupplung war unklar."

English:
"On 26.1. 1943, 17.14 o'clock alarm diving because of an airplane coming into sight. At 8:38 p.m. we had the first sounding of a convoy and operated on it, but without success, because we had engine damage in the diesel room, the clutch was unclear."

https://ewnor.de/wk/769_wk.php

John Pancoast

12-02-20, 12:57 PM

Not right out of the box but I‘ve read a contempory witness report of a U-466 crewmember.
Unfotunately on German.

Saying:
"Am 26.1. 1943, 17.14 Uhr Alarmtauchen wegen eines in Sicht gekommenen Flugzeuges. Um 20.38 Uhr hatten wir die erste Horchpeilung von einem Geleitzug und operierten auf diesen, jedoch ohne Erfolg, weil wir einen Maschinenschaden im Dieselraum hatten, die Kupplung war unklar."

English:
"On 26.1. 1943, 17.14 o'clock alarm diving because of an airplane coming into sight. At 8:38 p.m. we had the first sounding of a convoy and operated on it, but without success, because we had engine damage in the diesel room, the clutch was unclear."

https://ewnor.de/wk/769_wk.php

Thanks. Assuming the time frame between the times mentioned was three hours and 24 minutes, it sounds like they just happened to pick up a convoy because of their aircraft avoidance dive vs. the dive was part of a daily routine of hydrophone checks ?

Angelis

12-02-20, 01:11 PM

Not sure.

Why should a commander not use all the resources at his disposal to carry out his orders? Whether or not in routine procedures is a matter of the respective operating concept, I guess.

derstosstrupp

12-02-20, 01:17 PM

I‘d say during a normal patrol on search for "Fette Beute" Rundhorchen was a common thing due to it's effectivness. You could detect convoys up to 100 km away.

http://www.uboataces.com/hydrophones.shtml

I’m sure. The KTBs, doctrine, and contemporary literature I’ve read (and that’s quite a bit) strongly suggests no. Uboataces.com is also generally not a good source and has quite a bit of errors. As I said, there were acoustic nuances in different sea areas, I would suggest you read Hirschfeld’s book. There’s a good reason why the Handbook for U-boat Commanders explicitly states that the only time the hydrophone should be used is in cases of dire necessity if the submarine is forced to be underwater for one reason or another. Are you familiar with that document?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u_WNEHIi-gIq3cg1DVT89mGGSI_pCmH4/view?usp=drivesdk

Assertions like “why wouldn’t they use all the resources at their disposal” generally result in ignoring nuances of reality and misunderstandings. And the answer as to why they wouldn’t have used that resource, as I said, was that the eyeball was more reliable on a clear day.

The number one source of course is the KTBs, what they actually did. I suggest you also read through those.

A selection here:
http://uboatarchive.net/KTBList.htm

John Pancoast

12-02-20, 01:33 PM

Not sure.

Why should a commander not use all the resources at his disposal to carry out his orders? Whether or not in routine procedures is a matter of the respective operating concept, I guess.

Well if said resources don't reliably do a good job, no sense using them. Let alone the vast distances of the water being operated in vs. the range of the phones.
I'm also curious about the uboataces.com article; on one hand it says the phones couldn't pick up range, on the other it says they could pick up a convoy at 100km.
So how did this 100km figure come to be determined, i.e. ?

Drakken

12-02-20, 01:45 PM

Even if true, that was only under the rare optimal conditions and as pointed out such occasions were the exception.
If you have definitive proof that actual commanders did such a procedure on a routine basis that would be a great help, thanks !

So, realistically, hydrophone sound checks should be limited to very calm seas and ocean waters? I recall reading the Handbuch that salt level in the Baltic and North seas made it harder for sound to travel underwater.

derstosstrupp

12-02-20, 01:48 PM

So, realistically, hydrophone sound checks should be limited to very calm seas and ocean waters? I recall reading the Handbuch that salt level in the Baltic and North seas made it harder for sound to travel underwater.

It should be limited to bad visibility conditions, fog. I do a “trim dive “at 0600 every day, so that’s also a time.

John Pancoast

12-02-20, 02:02 PM

So, realistically, hydrophone sound checks should be limited to very calm seas and ocean waters? I recall reading the Handbuch that salt level in the Baltic and North seas made it harder for sound to travel underwater.

See derstosstrup's reply :) I want to repeat though at least from my point of view; if doing routine phone checks, realistic or not, makes the game enjoyable to someone, great ! Nothing wrong with that at all.

Heck, I prefer 8k environments to avoid the night vision problem with 16k and above ones, and use a set of escort ai files that most people would rightly call unrealistic in terms of escort equipment setup but if gives much more "realistic" gameplay (imo).

Gameplay is what its all about for me; i.e. I'm not a fan of sticking historical equipment capabilities numbers in games for various reasons one of which is more often than not they won't work in a game's limitations.
I.e., I also never considered the depth charge blast damage range or the pinpoint drops a problem in the game (still don't :)). Realistic ? Maybe not numbers wise, but perhaps they are that way to help the brain dead escort ai. I consider both "problems" actually providing better gameplay with than without.

derstosstrupp

12-02-20, 02:13 PM

John Pancoast

12-02-20, 02:21 PM

John Pancoast

12-02-20, 02:26 PM

I agree, it all comes down to what is fun on an individual basis. I don’t want to come across as dictating play styles, only keeping the historical record straight.

I like the idea of artificial difficulty, sort of the approach that NYGM for SH3, and TMO for SH4 take. Make the AI artificially hard to compensate for the fact you are yourself not at risk. Keeps you nice and cautious! Is that what your modified escort AI does?

Yes, the ai files are ones made long ago by CB...and you have to keep on your toes with them.
The escorts aren't infallible by any means; if one uses realistic tactics, etc. they can be beat. Sometimes. :D I'm a firm believer in that many of the "problems" people had/have with "uber" escorts, depth charges, etc. is because they didn't/don't know what they were doing tactics wise. To be blunt. :)

But they're much better than the normal zombies in the game, especially in the '40-'42 time period.
I think the escorts are weaker than they should be in this time period (later too, but more so in 40-42) and these files help with that.

Drakken

12-04-20, 12:13 AM

Well, my experience so far with Real Navigation inside these Polish waters is horrendous. I wish I could throw that Navigator overboard and explain to Donitz that he accidentally slipped on tea.

a) Not much in the way of merchant shipping in the area. Either destroyers or that elusive Polish fleet that go over 15 knots, moving away from me. No pickings.

b) I try to plot waypoints and decent courses inside the patrol zone... but because of the Navigator's less-than-stellar celestial navigation calculations twice I found myself way, wayyyyy passed my waypoint - within sight of land (or land-based coastal batteries). Lesson learned: when reaching a "waypoint" I now stop all engines while he does his magic.

c) The attack disc... remains a complete mystery to me yet. Yes, I saw the videos but still need more practice with it. Can't wait to be transfered in the Atlantic.

derstosstrupp

12-04-20, 12:28 AM

I’d be happy to work through the attack disk with you on Discord!

Drakken

12-10-20, 09:56 AM

First, a big thank you to derstosstrupp for taking the time to tutor me on-field with the Attack Disk on Discord - and answering my gazillion follow-up questions. :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

Just back from Baltic operations in Kiel with Real Navigation. Easily, this experience is the most immersive I've had with a Silent Hunter game (even with that error-prone Navigator... :hmmm:). Plotting my course through waypoints all the way to Kiel while listening to German channels on the radio, calculating ETAs and dead-reckoning my changes of course while avoiding racing into a Danish island, encountering all these unprotected German convoys to Sweden, then manually steering the boat down Kiel Harbor.

Thankfully, the weather was clear... this time around.

I might take pics of my 1st patrol KTB later today, in my own scribbling. :ping:

Sickents

12-10-20, 05:34 PM

I’d be happy to work through the attack disk with you on Discord!

little off-topic, but do we have an actual Subsim discord server?

if we do not, I was thinking to ask the subsim admins if it would be ok if I/we created a discord server for everyone to use? , I just think it would be very useful as this past 2 weeks alone, I have had to do voice chat with helping people install TWOS correctly and explain how to use tdc walking them through it.

Sickents

12-10-20, 06:05 PM

little off-topic, but do we have an actual Subsim discord server?

if we do not, I was thinking to ask the subsim admins if it would be ok if I/we created a discord server for everyone to use? , I just think it would be very useful as this past 2 weeks alone, I have had to do voice chat with helping people install TWOS correctly and explain how to use tdc walking them through it.

disregard I'm a Potato, been right in front of me this whole time in the links bar :k_confused:

les green01

12-18-20, 08:40 PM

wondering if anyone has read U-boat Tactics in World War II (Elite) if so is it any good

derstosstrupp

12-18-20, 09:08 PM

wondering if anyone has read U-boat Tactics in World War II (Elite) if so is it any good

It’s OK, it has a lot of good information, but I highly question some of the things about actual tactics in there. Some things are quite different than what contemporary sources say. For example, in there they claim that the standard night tactic was to sneak inside the screen underwater and then surface in the convoy, which was certainly not true, at least early war.

It also describes a standard night attack as running up from behind the convoy, which again, I wouldn’t call that standard. Standard was getting forward of the beam and running in on the “dog curve”, bow on target.

So just a little things like that, which I would like to say are minor, but in a book about tactics, I don’t know, it just isn’t quite reflective of the reality as I understand it to have been.